Nuggets are wasting Jokic's prime

[90sgoat]

Jokic should not waste his career on that shit franchise with a shit meme coach, Carlisle light.

Jokic should look at what Luka does and be more selfish.

Get a proper coach, someone like Tye Lue, and get some players that actually compliment what he does.

You need a setup like with Spurs, twin towers, get someone like Evan Mobley, Kristaps Porzingis, Myles Turner or Jaren Jackson Junior, a rim protector at the PF.

You need elite off ball players, but also someone who can consistently create from the dribble, a Kyrie Irving type player. Go get Kemba Walker or something.

Instead we've seen Nuggets get corpses of previous good players like Cousins and Paul Millsap.

This is one of the worst choke jobs by a GM ever.

[tontoz]

If MPJ and Porter were healthy they would be considered one of the title favorites. I think the GM has done a great job building a strong roster without the benefit of high profile free agents or top 5 draft picks.

[Kblaze8855]

So you are anti acquiring the corpses of once good player but want them to go get Kemba Walker?


Nobody can control injuries. It’s a perfectly good team when healthy.

[E_Stamkos]

Injuries plagued them.

I hate seeing star players run to greener pastures. It's honestly tired at this point. Persevere and stick it out through the bullshit. Better days ahead.

[Kblaze8855]

Injuries plagued them.

I hate seeing star players run to greener pastures. It's honestly tired at this point. Persevere and stick it out through the bullshit. Better days ahead.


When the entire sports world is so stupid as to make not having a ring matter more than how good you are? I get it.

Not having a ring is like the first line of a great ringless players evaluation because fans are stupid.

If you play for you….and don’t care that generations will mock you for it? Stick it out. If it’s gonna bother you? Go get what you need.

[SouBeachTalents]

When the entire sports world is so stupid as to make not having a ring matter more than how good you are? I get it.

Not having a ring is like the first line of a great ringless players evaluation because fans are stupid.

If you play for you….and don’t care that generations will mock you for it? Stick it out. If it’s gonna bother you? Go get what you need.
Basketball fans are legitimately the dumbest in all of sports. Football fans do this shit with quarterbacks, but no other team sport evaluates it’s athletes like their tennis or golf players like NBA fans do. They’ve even devolved Jordan’s argument for GOAT almost entirely on ring count, which is frankly a great disservice to him.

[HylianNightmare]

Laughed my ass off when they took AG

[1_BAD_TIGER]

Laughed my ass off when they took AG

Why? Gordon as a fourth option is dam good, and that was the intent when Denver signed him, injuries this year moved him up to where he really is not equipped to be on a daily basis.

[Kblaze8855]

Basketball fans are legitimately the dumbest in all of sports. Football fans do this shit with quarterbacks, but no other team sport evaluates it’s athletes like their tennis or golf players like NBA fans do. They’ve even devolved Jordan’s argument for GOAT almost entirely on ring count, which is frankly a great disservice to him.


That’s one thing that always bugged me about the Lebron/Jordan argument. Going with “rings” just makes it look like there aren’t basketball arguments. I saw Skip Bayless say Lebron was the better player skills wise but a worse winner. And he legit thought that was a knock on Lebron. That being better at basketball than Jordan but a worse winner was some kinda brutal indictment. They are so into ring count they are blind to the game.

[tontoz]

Why? Gordon as a fourth option is dam good, and that was the intent when Denver signed him, injuries this year moved him up to where he really is not equipped to be on a daily basis.


Yeah Gordon has been perfect for them. He plays off the ball well and can defend very well.

[90sgoat]

Why are people saying if MPJ was healthy?

MPJ was not healthy when he entered the league, it was why he dropped, there were talks already at draft night that he might never play because of his particularly difficult back injury.

That's absurd!

You're saying "what if" with a player who was a basketball invalid at draft night.

[FultzNationRISE]

That’s one thing that always bugged me about the Lebron/Jordan argument. Going with “rings” just makes it look like there aren’t basketball arguments. I saw Skip Bayless say Lebron was the better player skills wise but a worse winner. And he legit thought that was a knock on Lebron. That being better at basketball than Jordan but a worse winner was some kinda brutal indictment. They are so into ring count they are blind to the game.

As far as I can tell, Tony Kornheiser was the first to do this back when PTI was like the one sports show the entire country watched.

Kornheiser was more of a cultural/comedic sports analyst, not a nuanced x's and o's guy. Whenever he was asked to compare great players, he always just said "well who's got the rings? who's got more rings? rings, rings rings."

It was clearly just a cover for the fact he had no other input to give. And due to the enormous popularity of PTI, it became an accepted staple of sports discussion.

I'm honestly pretty sure that's where "rings" started.

[tontoz]

Why are people saying if MPJ was healthy?

MPJ was not healthy when he entered the league, it was why he dropped, there were talks already at draft night that he might never play because of his particularly difficult back injury.

That's absurd!

You're saying "what if" with a player who was a basketball invalid at draft night.

:facepalm

In case you missed it MPJ played the last two years. Last year he averaged 19 ppg with a 66% TS.

[RRR3]

Jokic is very possibly going to win a title if Murray and Porter stay healthy so extremely ignorant take. He only has no help now cuz his second and third option are hurt.

[HylianNightmare]

Why? Gordon as a fourth option is dam good, and that was the intent when Denver signed him, injuries this year moved him up to where he really is not equipped to be on a daily basis.
Only time and health will tell. Everything I see is hot trash

[FultzNationRISE]

Only time and health will tell. Everything I see is hot trash

He’s supposed to be that Trevor Ariza, Shane Battier, James Posey type piece.

Not a Pau Gasol, Kyrie Irving, Khris Middleton type piece which is what they had to ask of him against GS .

When theyre healthy he can be the guy he’s supposed to be.

[NBAGOAT]

why would he leave, denver is going into the luxury tax to put together a contender, the commitment is there. Murray is a perfect compliment with him since he can play offball so well and aaron gordon is a really good 4th option who's versatile defense is needed on that team. If they had twin towers unless it was evan mobley, they wouldnt guard the perimeter at all. I dont think porter jr deserved the rookie max with his health issues but he put up 19ppg on 66ts% last year and he's an easy efficient 20+ppg guy in his prime. Fits with jokic too because he's an offball scorer.

[tpols]

Why are people saying if MPJ was healthy?

MPJ was not healthy when he entered the league, it was why he dropped, there were talks already at draft night that he might never play because of his particularly difficult back injury.

That's absurd!

You're saying "what if" with a player who was a basketball invalid at draft night.

Yup. The fact is OP is right. The nuggets suck. MPJ has never proven anything and Murray had one little fluke run in the bubble. Neither of these guys are star help like contenders have.

[tpols]

:facepalm

In case you missed it MPJ played the last two years. Last year he averaged 19 ppg with a 66% TS.

Against the suns last year MPJ averaged 15/5/1 on 51 TS. Will Barton came back and outscored him with better efficiency. He's been hurt his whole pro career. The nuggets help is garbage. Jokic only hope is to go somewhere with a decent All Star 2nd option. Like Dame or something. Whose way better and more proven.

[FultzNationRISE]

Against the suns last year MPJ averaged 15/5/1 on 51 TS. Will Barton came back and outscored him with better efficiency. He's been hurt his whole pro career. The nuggets help is garbage. Jokic only hope is to go somewhere with a decent All Star 2nd option. Like Dame or something. Whose way better and more proven.

He did shoot poorly against PHX but keep in mind Murray was out by that point so he was getting more defensive attention than he normally would.

If he can stay on the court next year as a third option to a healthy Murray and Joker, especially if Cousins sticks around, and with guys like Morris and Hyland providing further depth... it’s gonna be a team that should compete with anyone.

Joker and Lillard with nobody around them is not gonna do anything. You need a full team and I frankly dont see many better options out there. You cant guarantee a championship anywhere, but the Nuggets are gonna be a contender. Thats all you can really ask for.

[NBAGOAT]

Against the suns last year MPJ averaged 15/5/1 on 51 TS. Will Barton came back and outscored him with better efficiency. He's been hurt his whole pro career. The nuggets help is garbage. Jokic only hope is to go somewhere with a decent All Star 2nd option. Like Dame or something. Whose way better and more proven.

dame is too ball dominant. Jokic needs guys who move well offball or he's not used to his full skill level. The dream obviously is curry but that's not happening

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

His window is closing for sure. 7 foot guys like him primes end by 30, their primes don't extend like guards and wings. He probably has about 2 more seasons at this level before he starts his decline. Duncan and Shaq were pretty much done being superstars by 30.

Jamal Murray is like Kyrie Irving though so he'll help. But I'm not sure they'll ever be good enough defensively to win a title.

[tpols]

He did shoot poorly against PHX but keep in mind Murray was out by that point so he was getting more defensive attention than he normally would.

If he can stay on the court next year as a third option to a healthy Murray and Joker, especially if Cousins sticks around, and with guys like Morris and Hyland providing further depth... it’s gonna be a team that should compete with anyone.

Joker and Lillard with nobody around them is not gonna do anything. You need a full team and I frankly dont see many better options out there. You cant guarantee a championship anywhere, but the Nuggets are gonna be a contender. Thats all you can really ask for.

They're not bro. You'll see it in a few years when this thread is long buried... but Murray and MPJ aren't star talents. They're not. You'll see it eventually, but in order to win today you need a true All Star 2nd option, borderline All Star 3rd option, and really good role players. The Nuggets are way behind the 8ball and will never be shit. They're a weak organization.

[tpols]

dame is too ball dominant. Jokic needs guys who move well offball or he's not used to his full skill level. The dream obviously is curry but that's not happening

A dame Jokic pick and roll would be devastating. If you don't help on dame he lights you up. If you do Jokic is the ultimate roll man. Could play out the post to in the same way. Throw in a PJ tucker style SF, a stretch PF, and a basic Caruso or caldwell-pope shooting guard and you have a truly dominant two star team. These nuggets are pure mediocrity.

[NBAGOAT]

A dame Jokic pick and roll would be devastating. If you don't help on dame he lights you up. If you do Jokic is the ultimate roll man. Could play out the post to in the same way. Throw in a PJ tucker style SF, a stretch PF, and a basic Caruso or caldwell-pope shooting guard and you have a truly dominant two star team. These nuggets are pure mediocrity.

Jokic isn’t at his best as a roll man

[tpols]

Jokic isn’t at his best as a roll man

Jokic 3 main setups are roll man, pick and pop, and seal off post. The nuggets bread and butter with him is out of the pick and roll.

[NBAGOAT]

Jokic 3 main setups are roll man, pick and pop, and seal off post. The nuggets bread and butter with him is out of the pick and roll.

yes but he can play through the low post and high post and those are the times when he's at his best since he can playmake from those sets. as a pick and pop guy less so

[tpols]

yes but he can play through the low post and high post and those are the times when he's at his best since he can playmake from those sets. as a pick and pop guy less so

Pick and pop is literally a bread and butter for the nuggets since it leaves the defense out of position giving Jokic the option to take a 3, feign it and pass, and / or dribble drive into a paint push shot. Are you serious? Jokic is utilized as a decision maker off the pick and Pop or general handoff all the time. How would this not work with a great guard like dame?

[fourkicks44]

The loss of Jerami Grant was huge for the Nuggets. I know they couldn't pay him but he was great for them.

Torrey Craig was helpful for them too, especially defensively. He was awesome on Lebron in the playoffs a couple years ago.

My man from Delaware, Bones, is a player. Great pick up by the Nuggets. You can't fault the organization for that.
Probably the steal of the season.

[FultzNationRISE]

They're not bro. You'll see it in a few years when this thread is long buried... but Murray and MPJ aren't star talents. They're not. You'll see it eventually, but in order to win today you need a true All Star 2nd option, borderline All Star 3rd option, and really good role players. The Nuggets are way behind the 8ball and will never be shit. They're a weak organization.

What are you basing this on? It sounds completely random.

Besides Lebron and the dynasty Warriors, the only team to win in the last decade is the Bucks and the Spurs.

You really think Tony Parker and Khris Middleton are that much better than Jamal Murray?

Who is the Celtics "true all star second option" right now? Do they have no shot at a title? They just swept Durant and Irving :hammerhead:

[FultzNationRISE]

Pick and pop is literally a bread and butter for the nuggets since it leaves the defense out of position giving Jokic the option to take a 3, feign it and pass, and / or dribble drive into a paint push shot. Are you serious? Jokic is utilized as a decision maker off the pick and Pop or general handoff all the time. How would this not work with a great guard like dame?

It could work but you cant just put any old team around that and think that's gonna contend. You need more than two guys to win a championship.

A healthy Nuggets team next year is a lot stronger than what you'd get if you put Joker on the Blazers right now.

Youre nuts if you dont think so.

[NBAGOAT]

Pick and pop is literally a bread and butter for the nuggets since it leaves the defense out of position giving Jokic the option to take a 3, feign it and pass, and / or dribble drive into a paint push shot. Are you serious? Jokic is utilized as a decision maker off the pick and Pop or general handoff all the time. How would this not work with a great guard like dame?

it works ofc but he's more likely to pass from the post. jokic's not as good a 3pt shooter as people think, he's career 35% on 3 attempts, mostly good looks. shot 34% on almost 4 attempts this year. Embiid by comparison who people consider not a threat from 3 shoots 34% on 3.5 attempts for his career, but also 37% on 3.7 attempts this year. doing a pick and pop then transitioning to a dribble handoff takes a lot of time off the shot clock, not the best play. The part that doesnt work with dame is asking to cut and come off screens while jokic is in the post, that's not dame's game and tbf most point guards arent good at that but murray is. add on the defense is not going be average with those 2 even with tucker and caruso. Low key one thing the nuggets lost going to monte morris from jamal murray is defense.

as for your other point, murray can definitely be an all star option. He was borderline in 21 even with a bad start. Porter being good enough to be borderline all star guy is definitely concerning but I would counter by asking how many contenders have a 4th guy as good or better than gordon? All I have off the top of my head are miami, boston, phx, gs, and maybe memphis. Only one of those teams have a MVP guy for now.

[NBAGOAT]

What are you basing this on? It sounds completely random.

Besides Lebron and the dynasty Warriors, the only team to win in the last decade is the Bucks and the Spurs.

You really think Tony Parker and Khris Middleton are that much better than Jamal Murray?

Who is the Celtics "true all star second option" right now? Do they have no shot at a title? They just swept Durant and Irving :hammerhead:

well I would argue brown is an all star caliber player even if he didnt make it this year. also no team is as good as boston 3-6 with smart, williams, horford, white this year. those are all very high impact guys because of their defense but will help you on offense too(well maybe not white). I cant think of the last team with a 5th starter as good as horford.

[FultzNationRISE]

He did shoot poorly against PHX but keep in mind Murray was out by that point so he was getting more defensive attention than he normally would.

If he can stay on the court next year as a third option to a healthy Murray and Joker, especially if Cousins sticks around, and with guys like Morris and Hyland providing further depth... it’s gonna be a team that should compete with anyone.

Joker and Lillard with nobody around them is not gonna do anything. You need a full team and I frankly dont see many better options out there. You cant guarantee a championship anywhere, but the Nuggets are gonna be a contender. Thats all you can really ask for.


We did it boys.

[BarberSchool]

BUMPED the whole damn lump !

[FKAri]

They're not bro. You'll see it in a few years when this thread is long buried... but Murray and MPJ aren't star talents. They're not. You'll see it eventually, but in order to win today you need a true All Star 2nd option, borderline All Star 3rd option, and really good role players. The Nuggets are way behind the 8ball and will never be shit. They're a weak organization.

Completely agree.

[ArbitraryWater]

Basketball fans are legitimately the dumbest in all of sports. Football fans do this shit with quarterbacks, but no other team sport evaluates it’s athletes like their tennis or golf players like NBA fans do. They’ve even devolved Jordan’s argument for GOAT almost entirely on ring count, which is frankly a great disservice to him.

I thought this, but its really the same everywhere.

Every sport has these dumb fans.

Once you get to know the community, you see.


Same in tennis.

To a lesser extent also in table tennis.


Basically, fans that think:

player lose? = player bad / bad form.

[ArbitraryWater]

Yup. The fact is OP is right. The nuggets suck. MPJ has never proven anything and Murray had one little fluke run in the bubble. Neither of these guys are star help like contenders have.


They're not bro. You'll see it in a few years when this thread is long buried... but Murray and MPJ aren't star talents. They're not. You'll see it eventually, but in order to win today you need a true All Star 2nd option, borderline All Star 3rd option, and really good role players. The Nuggets are way behind the 8ball and will never be shit. They're a weak organization.



:lol

[tontoz]

First reply to OP :pimp:



If MPJ and Porter were healthy they would be considered one of the title favorites. I think the GM has done a great job building a strong roster without the benefit of high profile free agents or top 5 draft picks.

[WADE MONEY]

First reply to OP :pimp:

My man

[Jasper]

Jokic should not waste his career on that shit franchise with a shit meme coach, Carlisle light.

Jokic should look at what Luka does and be more selfish.

Get a proper coach, someone like Tye Lue, and get some players that actually compliment what he does.

You need a setup like with Spurs, twin towers, get someone like Evan Mobley, Kristaps Porzingis, Myles Turner or Jaren Jackson Junior, a rim protector at the PF.

You need elite off ball players, but also someone who can consistently create from the dribble, a Kyrie Irving type player. Go get Kemba Walker or something.

Instead we've seen Nuggets get corpses of previous good players like Cousins and Paul Millsap.

This is one of the worst choke jobs by a GM ever.

he just won a chip and you come out with this crap.

[tontoz]

he just won a chip and you come out with this crap.



:oldlol:


This thread was started over a year ago.