Will there be another dominant post scorer like Shaq, McHale, Chuck, Kareem, Hakeem?

[Im Still Ballin]

Embiid and Jokic are currently the two best back-to-the-basket guys in the NBA right now. NBA.com has them scoring from the pivot with strong volume and efficiency. LeBron and KD are also up there with fantastic efficiency but lower volume. Zion was solid last year, but his number was more in line with LeBron and KD. He's more of a dribble-drive threat.


https://www.nba.com/stats/players/playtype-post-up/?sort=FGA&dir=1&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Embiid:
- 7.9 post-up possessions per game
- 29.2% frequency of total offense
- 1.08 points per possession
- 2.6/5.3 FG
- 49.8% eFG

Jokic:
- 4.8 post-up possessions per game
- 20.8% frequency of total offense
- 1.13 points per possession
- 2.2/3.7 FG
- 60.7% eFG



Here's my question to you: do you think we'll see another transcendent big man who dominates from the post-up? Embiid and Jokic are doing some impressive numbers, but I wouldn't consider either of them "GOAT-tier" from the pivot.

I wonder if we'll see a guy who combines Embiid's post-up volume with Jokic's post-up efficiency. A guy who takes 8-10 post-up possessions a game and scores at a 60% eFG rate.

I certainly think it's possible. If Shaq, McHale, and Kareem were playing today, they'd easily be doing those sorts of numbers; with even greater volume.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvxnPWb0Fl0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqEZzhybujI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=874JQ4sqrHE

[FultzNationRISE]

Embiid and Jokic are currently the two best back-to-the-basket guys in the NBA right now. NBA.com has them scoring from the pivot with strong volume and efficiency. LeBron and KD are also up there with fantastic efficiency but lower volume. Zion was solid last year, but his number was more in line with LeBron and KD. He's more of a dribble-drive threat.



Here's my question to you: do you think we'll see another transcendent big man who dominates from the post-up? Embiid and Jokic are doing some impressive numbers, but I wouldn't consider either of them "GOAT-tier" from the pivot.

I wonder if we'll see a guy who combines Embiid's post-up volume with Jokic's post-up efficiency. A guy who takes 8-10 post-up possessions a game and scores at a 60% eFG rate.

I certainly think it's possible. If Shaq, McHale, and Kareem were playing today, they'd easily be doing those sorts of numbers; with even greater volume.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvxnPWb0Fl0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqEZzhybujI


I think it's probably more a matter of how the game is played.

It's very improbable there'd be dominant low-post players in previous generations, yet despite a league more global, competitive, and lucrative than ever before, there are none to be found today.

I think it's just about what teams seek in a 5 these days. When you've got a perimeter full of bombers, you're not gonna emphasize shooting post-ups as much. Ofc you love a guy who CAN do it, but I think you ultimately want him kicking the ball out to open shooters more often than not, rather than taking the contested two. The fact bigs can hit from outside now is also used to spread the floor for driving lanes in a way you just wouldnt see in earlier decades.

I'm sure there's plenty of guys who could put up more points in the post than they currently are, it's just not how the game is played now.

[Round Mound]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2uD8l2Ra2E&t=844s

[Im Still Ballin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2uD8l2Ra2E&t=844s

Tried to add him bro but there's apparently a 3 video limit.

[Im Still Ballin]

I think it's probably more a matter of how the game is played.

It's very improbable there'd be dominant low-post players in previous generations, yet despite a league more global, competitive, and lucrative than ever before, there are none to be found today.


I'm not sure they teach the back-to-the-basket game like they used to. All the kids today want to be like Curry, just as the previous generation wanted to be like Mike. There was that shift starting from Generation X; guys like KG and Webber wanted to play like guards. Hell, even MJ called Hakeem a small forward masquerading as a center back in 1996.

The post-up game just isn't as sexy as the face-up, dribble-drive, shooting game.


I think it's just about what teams seek in a 5 these days. When you've got a perimeter full of bombers, you're not gonna emphasize shooting post-ups as much. Ofc you love a guy who CAN do it, but I think you ultimately want him kicking the ball out to open shooters more often than not, rather than taking the contested two. The fact bigs can hit from outside now is also used to spread the floor for driving lanes in a way you just wouldnt see in earlier decades.

I'm sure there's plenty of guys who could put up more points in the post than they currently are, it's just not how the game is played now.

There's definitely truth to this. It is true that having a low-post guy inside does clog the paint and potential driving lanes to a degree. The five-out set is where the game is at right now at all levels. If there is a non-shooter in the lineup, it's a center that strictly sets picks and rolls, catching lobs.

I would be wary of pigeonholing talent.

Although a low-post big clogs the paint, it also gives you advantageous offensive rebounding. Surrounding a dominant post player with 4 shooters is, in my opinion, still cash money. Dwight did it in Orlando to great success not that long ago. Embiid and Jokic have shown it this season.

The inside-out game from the post works. I think it just comes down to the talent that's not there. The right guy will come along and change everything.

[Round Mound]

Tried to add him bro but there's apparently a 3 video limit.

Ok no problem :cheers:

[Airupthere]

Not in the same level as the greats but I've always enjoyed Z-Bo's post game.

[Jasper]

Knicks as well as Clippers have pretty good centers if they work on thei game.
Ayston from the Suns I like his game , but really needs to work on a jump hook.

[tontoz]

Embiid, Zion and Jokic are all dominant post scorers. The way the rules are now it doesn't make sense to play a lot with your back to the basket.

When your back is to the basket the defender can put his forearm in your back and push. If you face up the defender can't put a hand on you.

Guys now will use their size/power to get post position and receive the ball. After they get the ball they usually face up first then make their move

[Baller789]

It's not as viable as the postup guys are nerfed with the back to the basket rule.

Also dribble drive is incentivized bec. Of the freedom of movement rule change.

[Pointguard]

Embiid and Jokic are currently the two best back-to-the-basket guys in the NBA right now. NBA.com has them scoring from the pivot with strong volume and efficiency. LeBron and KD are also up there with fantastic efficiency but lower volume. Zion was solid last year, but his number was more in line with LeBron and KD. He's more of a dribble-drive threat.



Here's my question to you: do you think we'll see another transcendent big man who dominates from the post-up? Embiid and Jokic are doing some impressive numbers, but I wouldn't consider either of them "GOAT-tier" from the pivot.

I wonder if we'll see a guy who combines Embiid's post-up volume with Jokic's post-up efficiency. A guy who takes 8-10 post-up possessions a game and scores at a 60% eFG rate.

I certainly think it's possible. If Shaq, McHale, and Kareem were playing today, they'd easily be doing those sorts of numbers; with even greater volume.



Jokic and Embiid can be that type of player but both shoot too good to stay down there. If their teams are healthy they both have five outstanding players so their passing might be highlighted which can distract from playing an all out dominant game. If Zion wants it he can be one of the best ever down in the post. Giannis can also learn to be go down there. People forget that he's still new to the game.

[ImKobe]

Embiid is definitely on that level when he goes to the post. He has every move.


https://youtu.be/xJ9q0i6q6ec

[Im Still Ballin]

Embiid is definitely on that level when he goes to the post. He has every move.


https://youtu.be/xJ9q0i6q6ec

You're probably right. Last year he did 9 post-up possessions for 52% eFG + lots of free throws.

He and Jokic are definitely the best in the league. I still feel they're a cut below Shaq, McHale, and Kareem as far as sheer post-up efficiency. I don't know of any post-up stats for those guys, but they were high-volume low-post scorers who were high-efficiency. Probably something like 10-15+ post possessions per game and 55%+ eFG.

[Round Mound]

Here is another mix video of McHale's post moves that i just found:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9UDXJtLhUI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9UDXJtLhUI

[Im Still Ballin]

Here is another mix video of McHale's post moves that i just found:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9UDXJtLhUI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9UDXJtLhUI
Such an effective offensive rebounder. Keeps the ball high and has a laser-quick second jump.

Thanks for the video. Saw some footage I haven't seen before around the 8 minute mark against New York.

[GimmeThat]

nowadays more and more big men stay healthy and have a career, so it's becoming more and more prevalent for teams to have multiple 6'10" or even 7 footers. so I'm not sure if there will be that many dominant scorers as much as bigs who can also move the ball well.

the reality is, the correlation between "dominant post scorer" and championships isn't even that high. it's nice to have players that are tall and agile that can score, but can you imagine having players that are taller and more agile and can't stop the opposing team from scoring?

[ImKobe]

You're probably right. Last year he did 9 post-up possessions for 52% eFG + lots of free throws.

He and Jokic are definitely the best in the league. I still feel they're a cut below Shaq, McHale, and Kareem as far as sheer post-up efficiency. I don't know of any post-up stats for those guys, but they were high-volume low-post scorers who were high-efficiency. Probably something like 10-15+ post possessions per game and 55%+ eFG.

Yeah he averaged 9.3 a game and Jokic was 2nd with 5.8, the numbers have gone down quite a bit this season but he's still at 7.9 to Jokic's 4.8. He has the highest FT frequency by far among players who do post up consistently. It's hard to say where he is in terms of other ATG post players because the league is so different, a lot of the "point guards" can't even make a proper post-entry pass and there's even less guys who can defend it properly without fouling and some it's on the way they call the game as you can't really be as physical outside of 5 ft from the basket.

[Gimmedarock]

I don’t think I’d ever want to see this part of the game come back. Just seems like it would slow things down. I like the fast pace and the outside shooting. When a guy like Embid backs a guy down it’s fine because that’s just a small piece of his game so he doesn’t do it over & over.

I doubt guys practice playing in the post because it’s not a very flashy style. We want handles & threes. Just not fun to play that way.