Tom Donaghy is the crooked ref

[ExpatSunsFan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2943095


NBA referee Tim Donaghy is under investigation by the FBI for allegations that he bet on games that he officiated over the past two seasons and that he made calls affecting the point spread in games, multiple sources told ESPN.
Donaghy, a 13-year veteran of the league, is aware of the investigation and resigned from the NBA recently.

[DeuceWallaces]

OK, so what has he called? pWHo wants to go the gruntwork?

[The Hurricane]

damn this is terrible news for Mav fans

[ExpatSunsFan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=270512024

This is the infamous Mike D'Antoni "Why call it now?" game--the Spurs were getting away with murder against Steve Nash that game, grabbing his hands and arms to force turnovers down the stretch.

Finally, with two and a half minutes left and the Spurs up 11, somebody called a hand-check as Nash was driving, prompting D'Antoni to go nuts--hence the quote.

Spurs were favored by 4.5 in that game.


Amare played 20 minutes in that game because of foul trouble.

[kentatm]

damn this is terrible news for Mav fans


no, its terrible news for ALL NBA fans.

if its true it will take decades to repair the damage.

[Mr_Basketball#1]

no, its terrible news for ALL NBA fans.

if its true it will take decades to repair the damage.

You're absolutely right...I hate this so bad...

[Rasheed1]

God-lee he went to O hara HS out here in the Philly suburbs.....And he went to Villanova.......

This is terrible news....:(

Imagine how sick Stern must feel right now after scoffin at people who complain about refereeing and the hardline taken against players and coaches who comment on them after games.. Not saying that all the b*tchin by players and coaches is warranted, but Stern took the stance that it was almost laughable that referees were shady... now this..

[fatboy11]

no, its terrible news for ALL NBA fans.

if its true it will take decades to repair the damage.No it won't. That's ridiculous.

Fire him and get on with life.

[Mr_Basketball#1]

People like Donaghy, Artest, Randolph and Stephen Jackson make the league look so bad...People that are not fans of the game probably look at the NBA as a league full of gangsters and thugs...:ohwell:

[ExpatSunsFan]

http://sports.ktar.com/?nid=145&sid=479098


Stoudemire draws his second foul of the game after fouling Robert Horry. Stoudemire is escorted to the bench by Steve Nash and the Suns looked baffled.

Ginobili missed an easy layup and complains to an official. The Suns grabbed the rebound as as Phoenix was nearly at half court, the official called a delayed foul on Raja Bell.

Officiating looks to be getting out of hand after Amare Stoudemire picks up his fourth foul of the game - an offensive foul. Stoudemire hardly touched Oberto, who flopped to the floor and now Stat finds himself in dangerous waters.

A technical foul is called against Dan D'Antoni after arguing a call on behalf of Steve Nash. Nash was clearly fouled after nearly three Spurs collapsed on top of him to force a turnover.

Steve Nash argues another call after a Robert Horry steal, which he should argue. Horry clearly fouled him.

Bruce Bowen picks up a team foul and D'Antoni screams out, "Why call it now?" It's true. The officiating has been pretty one-sided for the majority of the game. Steve Nash continues to get slapped when he crosses half court and Amare Stoudemire can't seem to draw a foul for the life of him, despite replays that clearly show Tim Duncan making contact with his left hand.

:)

[TheBynumProject]

In some ways the NBA is lucky this has been exposed now and can be fixed and thoroughly investigated. That is far better than it continuting to happen unnoticed.

[Kobe24]

I hope he didn't ref any Laker games.



No it won't. That's ridiculous.

Fire him and get on with life.

Yes it will. You never know if any other refs are doing it. Refs were never that liked anyways and always got critisized and now, they will have to be even more careful since their gonna be under everyone's eye. Mark Cuban is gonna make even more comments about the refs.

[Mr_Basketball#1]

http://sports.ktar.com/?nid=145&sid=479098



:)

Nice find...

[kentatm]

No it won't. That's ridiculous.

Fire him and get on with life.


yea, i guess you are dense. sorry dude but this is a HUGE deal.

[Xsatyr]

In some ways the NBA is lucky this has been exposed now and can be fixed and thoroughly investigated. That is far better than it continuting to happen unnoticed.

David Stern is scum so I would not be surprised if he was in on it. That might be going over the top suggesting Stern is in on it but it would not be shocking to me. All he cares about is money.

[fatboy11]

yea, i guess you are dense. sorry dude but this is a HUGE deal.How is it going to hurt the league?

It's only one ref.

Guess I'm dense.....:confusedshrug:

[Rasheed1]

it wont take decades to repair, but this is a serious issue... Stern will face alot of new problems next year due to this....

How does he react to the complainin next year with this hanging over the league?

He cant pretend its preposterous anymore...and it may spiral out of control sorta like the steroid scandal in baseball....If the league isnt careful, the games integrity could take a huge blow and make the league a laughing stock

[TheBynumProject]

David Stern is scum so I would not be surprised if he was in on it. That might be going over the top suggesting Stern is in on it but it would not be shocking to me. All he cares about is money.
That is the stupidest thing you could possibly say. What makes Stern and the NBA more money, a thriving, healthy league or a league littered with bad pub and betting scandals?

Stern cares about money for the L and his fellow owners, not illicit gambling money. Idiot.

[fatboy11]

Yes it will. You never know if any other refs are doing it. Refs were never that liked anyways and always got critisized and now, they will have to be even more careful since their gonna be under everyone's eye. Mark Cuban is gonna make even more comments about the refs.You can say about that anything.

Were any other MLB managers betting on their teams and baseball because Pete Rose did?

Are any other NFL players fighting dogs like Mike Vick?

You guys are overreacting.

[thenextgreatbigman]

How is it going to hurt the league?

It's only one ref.

Guess I'm dense.....:confusedshrug:
because you never know if it's only one guy and anytime something goes wrong people will try to link it to outside influences.

[Xsatyr]

That is the stupidest thing you could possibly say. What makes Stern and the NBA more money, a thriving, healthy league or a league littered with bad pub and betting scandals?

Stern cares about money for the L and his fellow owners, not illicit gambling money. Idiot.

Not really considering how often there are bad officiating games but yet we do not see improvement. I don't see Stern making strives to help the officiating. I think he is greedy and can be concerned about making his own money. But like I said, I could be going over the top but people have done worse things which is why I wouldn't be shocked.

[ExpatSunsFan]

Stern cares about money for the L and his fellow owners, not illicit gambling money. Idiot.
Stern obviously wasn't getting a cut, we'll all agree there. The question is whether he covered this up (and for how long), with the idea of burying it before anybody caught wind of it.


When did Stern know about this? Did he first learn about it before the playoffs began, and if so, why did he send Donaghy out there to officiate?

[XxNeXuSxX]

http://www.covers.com/pageLoader/pageLoader.aspx?page=/data/nba/referees/2005-2006/referee403935.html&t=0

:confusedshrug:

[Optimus Prime]

Uh oh, the conspiracy theories for every game this guy ever officiated in will now begin...

But seriously though, this is bad news for the NBA. Every sport always has allegations of crooked refs. Now there's proof that a ref actually WAS on the take?

Not good.

[DTD]

This is only the tip of the ice berg. The NBA officiating has been rumored to be involved in fixes for years. People will only be fooling themselves if they think only one official is invloved. He will probably be the fall man for a "ring" that has been involved with this fixing of games for quite some time. The NBA is too powerful and corporate driven for the entire truth to come out about how deep this really is; so the story wil be only "one official involved."...and the fans once again get ripped off.

One official my ass.

[niko]

How is it going to hurt the league?

It's only one ref.

Guess I'm dense.....:confusedshrug:

apparently.

if people think the games are fixed they won't watch. If they don't watch, what is the nba? and people already think games are fixed even before this.

why is this hard to understand?

[fatboy11]

apparently.

if people think the games are fixed they won't watch. If they don't watch, what is the nba? and people already think games are fixed even before this.

why is this hard to understand?The ratings will be just as bad as ever.........:confusedshrug:

[ExpatSunsFan]

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/64331

Game 3 of Suns/Lakers, 2006.

Check out the picture.

[kentatm]

How is it going to hurt the league?

It's only one ref.

Guess I'm dense.....:confusedshrug:


The NBA has a bad rep as having awful refs that blow calls with regularity. Having it turn out one is rigging games.... That is a monstrous blow to the Ls integrity. Especially when Stern was openly scoffing at there ever being a chance of this happening while in Vegas this past AllStar game.

The the worst thing you can have in sports is a rigged game. People forgive steroids, drugs, domestic fights etc but they do NOT forgive rigging the game. If they did, Pete Rose would be in the HOF. (and he shouldnt be for that)

[Timmy D for MVP]

Speaking of NBA referees. I opened up my SI magazine and was shocked to discover that Shag Crawford (famous umpire who umped from the late 50's to late 70's. Founder of the umpire's union) had two sons. One named Jerry who went on to umpire as well, the other was Joey Crawford, yes the NBA referee. That's a ridiculous set of great officiators.

[John Starks]

Here's a balst from the past:

Trail Blazers forward Rasheed Wallace was suspended Saturday for seven games without pay for confronting and threatening a referee outside the Rose Garden in Portland. Referees mentioned the confrontation in a routine report filed after Portland's 100-92 victory over Memphis on Wednesday night. ``He accosted a referee and threatened him,'' NBA senior vice president Stu Jackson said during a conference call Saturday. Jackson refused to elaborate on the confrontation, which happened after the game in the arena's loading dock, where players and other game personnel park their cars. Jackson said there was no physical contact between Wallace and referee Tim Donaghy.

``We strongly believe the penalty that we issued was appropriate for Rasheed's actions,'' Jackson said. Wallace can appeal the suspension. Wallace scored a season-high 38 points and had 10 rebounds against Memphis. Donaghy called a technical foul on him with 9:45 to go in the third quarter. The call appeared to be for the way Wallace returned the ball to another referee after he was called for a foul. Wallace led the league in technical fouls the past three seasons, breaking his own record by getting 41 in 2000-01. Jackson said Wallace's prior indiscretions were taken into account in determining his new punishment. Wallace was fined $15,000 last month for his actions following a post-game brawl between the Blazers and the Golden State Warriors. Wallace allegedly tried to go after a fan who threw a wad of chewing gum on him.

[ExpatSunsFan]

Speaking of NBA referees. I opened up my SI magazine and was shocked to discover that Shag Crawford (famous umpire who umped from the late 50's to late 70's. Founder of the umpire's union) had two sons. One named Jerry who went on to umpire as well, the other was Joey Crawford, yes the NBA referee. That's a ridiculous set of great officiators.
You mean the ex-NBA referee, right?

Seems odd you would make that mistake, considering your username. :oldlol:



Did Donaghy have a run-in with Rasheed Wallace back in the day? Sheed chased him outside and confronted him after a game?

Edit--speak of the devil...

[fatboy11]

The NBA has a bad rep as having awful refs that blow calls with regularity. Having it turn out one is rigging games.... That is a monstrous blow to the Ls integrity. Especially when Stern was openly scoffing at there ever being a chance of this happening while in Vegas this past AllStar game.

The the worst thing you can have in sports is a rigged game. People forgive steroids, drugs, domestic fights etc but they do NOT forgive rigging the game. If they did, Pete Rose would be in the HOF. (and he shouldnt be for that)The NBA's integrity?

The league is unpopular now because of the way the game is played. It's very lacking. That is why people don't watch as much as they used to.

I guess I'm just too dead to the league itself now that I don't care about this. It doesn't surprise me and I don't care. I know there are millions that feel the same way. Some don't care, but still watch because it's engrained in them. Most stopped caring after Jordan left and they were left the "stars" they have now and likely won't ever come back.

The league is a joke is so many ways that this isn't a big deal to me. It really isn't. The way they let the players control the damn league and the way they market (or don't market) the league is a joke and a big deal to me. Not this.

[AKA AAP]

I hope he didn't ref any Laker games.



Yes it will. You never know if any other refs are doing it. Refs were never that liked anyways and always got critisized and now, they will have to be even more careful since their gonna be under everyone's eye. Mark Cuban is gonna make even more comments about the refs.

I'm sure him and a couple of his ref buddies reffed the Shaq ERA Lakers. :roll:

[Optimus Prime]

Interesting. Though 'Sheed accosts everybody. :oldlol:

It'd be crazy interesting if it was Steve Nash or someone who is usually even keeled...


Here's a balst from the past:

Trail Blazers forward Rasheed Wallace was suspended Saturday for seven games without pay for confronting and threatening a referee outside the Rose Garden in Portland. Referees mentioned the confrontation in a routine report filed after Portland's 100-92 victory over Memphis on Wednesday night. ``He accosted a referee and threatened him,'' NBA senior vice president Stu Jackson said during a conference call Saturday. Jackson refused to elaborate on the confrontation, which happened after the game in the arena's loading dock, where players and other game personnel park their cars. Jackson said there was no physical contact between Wallace and referee Tim Donaghy.

``We strongly believe the penalty that we issued was appropriate for Rasheed's actions,'' Jackson said. Wallace can appeal the suspension. Wallace scored a season-high 38 points and had 10 rebounds against Memphis. Donaghy called a technical foul on him with 9:45 to go in the third quarter. The call appeared to be for the way Wallace returned the ball to another referee after he was called for a foul. Wallace led the league in technical fouls the past three seasons, breaking his own record by getting 41 in 2000-01. Jackson said Wallace's prior indiscretions were taken into account in determining his new punishment. Wallace was fined $15,000 last month for his actions following a post-game brawl between the Blazers and the Golden State Warriors. Wallace allegedly tried to go after a fan who threw a wad of chewing gum on him.

[Timmy D for MVP]

The NBA has a bad rep as having awful refs that blow calls with regularity. Having it turn out one is rigging games.... That is a monstrous blow to the Ls integrity. Especially when Stern was openly scoffing at there ever being a chance of this happening while in Vegas this past AllStar game.

The the worst thing you can have in sports is a rigged game. People forgive steroids, drugs, domestic fights etc but they do NOT forgive rigging the game. If they did, Pete Rose would be in the HOF. (and he shouldnt be for that)

No actually most the people I talk to and discuss this with agree that the NBA refs are the best with calls. It helps that there is one ref per matchup baisically (1:3.4 ratio). David Stern tried his best to uphold the integrity of these refs, and I do believe they still use the merit system for playoff games right? But this is stupid, and could turn out to be basketball''s "steriods"

[ExpatSunsFan]

On Phoenix local radio they are saying the league might have known of these allegations for the last two years.

[bigboi_baller]

I hope he didn't ref any Laker games.



Yes it will. You never know if any other refs are doing it. Refs were never that liked anyways and always got critisized and now, they will have to be even more careful since their gonna be under everyone's eye. Mark Cuban is gonna make even more comments about the refs.
I want to know if he reffed Games 5-7 in the Kings v Lakers WCF.

Now, that series was reffed worse than Spurs/Suns or Mavs/Heat.

[Rasheed1]

See?

people are already going back scouring over games and fouls and ejections to see where tim"s name comes up...its gonna continue and the league will have some tough questions to answer before the season starts and well into it (not to mention next years playoffs)

[kentatm]

On Phoenix local radio they are saying the league might have known of these allegations for the last two years.

then that is even worse considering they were letting the dude ref playoffs games.

[kentatm]

I want to know if he reffed Games 5-7 in the Kings v Lakers WCF.

Now, that series was reffed worse than Spurs/Suns or Mavs/Heat.

that was pretty bad.

[PejaNowitzki]

No it won't. That's ridiculous.

Fire him and get on with life.



LOL, you're crazy. If the evidence shows that he impacted that playoff series between Phoenix and San Antonio by deliberately making false calls, this is a scandal that will take YEARS to get over with.

[joe]

as a suns fan i was disgusted with what bowen was able to get away with in that series. but why wouldnt any of the other refs call those fouls? it either means that more were in on it, or the officiating is just lacking altogether.

man.. this is terrible. but so exciting in a way. its good to see that all of the fans complaining about bad officiating over the years has SOME credibility now.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I won 10 bucks on that series in a bet with a friend....I feel so awful now, after I took that ten, and bought Sam Adams, and, and...drank it...oh, God. Or rather, Octoberfest. Oh, Octoberfest. Never have I felt bad over such good beer. Guess I'll have to buy some more beer, it's the only way to right this wrong.

On a slightly more serious note, it gives the Suns fans that feel the Suns are the top team and the anti-TD crowd that we Duncan-supporters keep on throwing Championships in the face of a little bit of ammunition. But the whiny Mav fans still need to shut up about Wade.

[konex]

http://i17.tinypic.com/6bkxtn5.jpg

Donaghy conspiring with Kobe? :no:

[-primetime-]

did he ref any of the Mavs/Miami series?

[fatboy11]

It's only idiots that want to wonder if he officiated EVERY badly officiated game that are making this a big deal.

That is what is really ridiculous.

[-primetime-]

It's only idiots that want to wonder if he officiated EVERY badly officiated game that are making this a big deal.

That is what is really ridiculous.
that is why the damage will take so long to repair...

now every time there is a bad call people are going to question it...

and right now I am questioning the Mavs/Miami series aka the worst refed series in the history of the NBA

[joe]

does anyone know a site that tells you who reffed all the NBA games? one who reffed all the NBA playoff games would be even nicer. i cant find it on google.

[Rab]

I would like to hear Stern's reaction to this being made public. There is no way he didn't know that the FBI was investigating his league. The question is was he trying to cover it up?

He has been backing refs for the past 2 years moreso than I have seen him ever do in the past.

[Rasheed1]

Mavs/Miami series aka the worst refed series in the history of the NBA


Yeah that one was the mavs fault....unless the crooked ref convinced howard to call a timeout at the worst possible time

And I remember the Lakers/Kings to be much worse than the Mavs/Heat

[RIMMER]

It's only idiots that want to wonder if he officiated EVERY badly officiated game that are making this a big deal.

That is what is really ridiculous.

Obviously, more than one ref would be in on something like this. We'd all like to think its an isolated incident, but in all likelihood, its not THAT easy.

[Rab]

Yeah that one was the mavs fault....unless the crooked ref convinced howard to call a timeout at the worst possible time

And I remember the Lakers/Kings to be much worse than the Mavs/Heat
Yes

and yes.

[-primetime-]

Yeah that one was the mavs fault....unless the crooked ref convinced howard to call a timeout at the worst possible time

And I remember the Lakers/Kings to be much worse than the Mavs/Heat

these fouls are not the Mavs fault...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fydhtOSlfW0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y8nI1PPYOk

and those are justa couple

it was simpley ridiculous

[Rasheed1]

these fouls are not the Mavs fault...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fydhtOSlfW0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y8nI1PPYOk

and those are justa couple

it was simpley ridiculous

Mavs blew their chances to make plays at plenty of critical points in those games and if they had taken care of their business they would have won easily... they didnt tho :confusedshrug:

And you may as well give it up if you cant place the crooked ref at the scene

[Real Men Wear Green]

It's only idiots that want to wonder if he officiated EVERY badly officiated game that are making this a big deal.

That is what is really ridiculous.
Whether you believe it or not, this is a "big deal." Tilting the Suns-Spurs series is bad enough, but he's apparently been screwing up games for two seasons, at least. I don't know how many games a ref does in one season, but even one game can make a huge difference for a team that misses the playoffs on a tie-breaker or loses home-court advantage, etc. And if the mob had this guy tip 15 games? 20? 50? He really could have unfairly wrecked some seasons, and with the general public already feeling like refs are a bunch of @$$hole$ that are out to screw their team over anyway they've got a large perception problem from this guy because he actually justifies peoples' worst suspicions.

[-primetime-]

Mavs blew their chances to make plays at plenty of critical points in those games and if they had taken care of their business they would have won easily... they didnt tho :confusedshrug:

And you may as well give it up if you cant place the crooked ref at the scene
that is why I was asking if he was there...was he?

do you know that he wasn't?


and second...they were not allowed to take care of business...the series was not fair, simple as that...it is not the Mavs job to make sure they have a 30 pt. lead every game just in case the refs decide to cheat...

[fatboy11]

Whether you believe it or not, this is a "big deal." Tilting the Suns-Spurs series is bad enough, but he's apparently been screwing up games for two seasons, at least. I don't know how many games a ref does in one season, but even one game can make a huge difference for a team that misses the playoffs on a tie-breaker or loses home-court advantage, etc. And if the mob had this guy tip 15 games? 20? 50? He really could have unfairly wrecked some seasons, and with the general public already feeling like refs are a bunch of @$$hole$ that are out to screw their team over anyway they've got a large perception problem from this guy because he actually justifies peoples' worst suspicions.Why are people trying to keep on explaining this to me when I clearly stated that I don't care. :confusedshrug:

I'm more concerned with the quality (or lack thereof) of play on the court. That's more pathetic to me.

[PejaNowitzki]

Whether you believe it or not, this is a "big deal." Tilting the Suns-Spurs series is bad enough, but he's apparently been screwing up games for two seasons, at least. I don't know how many games a ref does in one season, but even one game can make a huge difference for a team that misses the playoffs on a tie-breaker or loses home-court advantage, etc. And if the mob had this guy tip 15 games? 20? 50? He really could have unfairly wrecked some seasons, and with the general public already feeling like refs are a bunch of @$$hole$ that are out to screw their team over anyway they've got a large perception problem from this guy because he actually justifies peoples' worst suspicions.


Great post man...props!!!

[Optimus Prime]

:applause: for you again my man!

Exactly what I said, but you said it better!


Whether you believe it or not, this is a "big deal." Tilting the Suns-Spurs series is bad enough, but he's apparently been screwing up games for two seasons, at least. I don't know how many games a ref does in one season, but even one game can make a huge difference for a team that misses the playoffs on a tie-breaker or loses home-court advantage, etc. And if the mob had this guy tip 15 games? 20? 50? He really could have unfairly wrecked some seasons, and with the general public already feeling like refs are a bunch of @$$hole$ that are out to screw their team over anyway they've got a large perception problem from this guy because he actually justifies peoples' worst suspicions.

[Motown]

In my opinion, game 6 WCF Kings v. Lakers has been the worst game ive seen reffed. That's the only game I'd be interested in knowing if he was officiating it or not. Anybody know off hand?

[R.I.P.]

did he ref any of the Mavs/Miami series?

Nope. Betting mafia doesn

[Da KO King]

Fats, the reason its a huge deal is NBA refs are a close knit group. They fly to games together and room together at hotels. So of course people's first response will be who else knew.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Mavs blew their chances to make plays at plenty of critical points in those games and if they had taken care of their business they would have won easily... they didnt tho :confusedshrug:

And you may as well give it up if you cant place the crooked ref at the scene
Some of the Mav fans just want to *****. Logic is wasted on them.

[-primetime-]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]Nope. Betting mafia doesn

[-primetime-]

Some of the Mav fans just want to *****. Logic is wasted on them.
you say something intelegent like "this guy justifies peoples worst suspisions" and then go on to make a dumb ass comment like "mavs fans just want to bi-tch"...

so which is it?

do I not have the right to question that series now? you seemed to think this is "such a big deal" because of the fact that i do...

[Real Men Wear Green]

Why are people trying to keep on explaining this to me when I clearly stated that I don't care. :confusedshrug:

I'm more concerned with the quality (or lack thereof) of play on the court. That's more pathetic to me.
The argument started with you disagreeing with kentATM correctly stating that this was bad news to all NBA fans, which is why I tried (and evidently failed) to explain the importance of this issue to you...well, actually, I guess if you're an NBA fan, and it's not important to you, that it is, in fact, not important to all NBA fans. Therefore, congratulations; you're "right."

[SRZ66]

http://sports.ktar.com/?nid=145&sid=479098



:)
http://www.probasketballrefs.com/Portals/0/Tim%20Donaghy.jpg

[ReturnOfJimi]

A Bill Simmons article excerpt from last year's playoffs that became more interesting in recent times....


Congratulations to Greg Willard, Tim Donaghy and Eddie F. Rush for giving us the most atrociously officiated game of the playoffs so far: Game 3 of the Suns-Spurs series. Bennett Salvatore, Tom Washington and Violet Palmer must have been outraged that they weren't involved in this mess. Good golly. Most of the calls favored the Spurs, but I don't even think the refs were biased -- they were so incompetent that there was no rhyme or reason to anything that was happening. Other than the latest call in NBA history (a shooting foul for Ginobili whistled three seconds after the play, when everyone was already running in the other direction), my favorite moment happened near the end, when the game was already over and they called a cheap bump on Bruce Bowen against Nash, so the cameras caught Mike D'Antoni (the most entertaining coach in the league if he's not getting calls) screaming sarcastically, "Why start now? Why bother?" What a travesty. Not since the cocaine era from 1978-1986 has the league faced a bigger ongoing issue than crappy officiating.

The foul calls had no rhyme or reason likely because the ref was shooting for a specific spread in the final score.

[R.I.P.]

oh, I forgot you are in the mafia...

thank you for explaining that to me Tony Soprano

No problem.

[kentatm]

first off, this guy did NOT ref any NBA Finals games in the last two years. I went and checked. Thats a GOOD thing for the NBA. What is bad is the dude did ref some playoffs game. Game 3 Spurs/Suns and Game 3 Mavs/GS for sure. However, I didnt look either of those two up on my own and I didnt look at any other playoff games. Those two were mentioned elsewhere and I just did a look to confirm. I only checked the last two Finals series and thankfully he was not in the mix.

You guys can look it up too if you want. Go to ESPN.com and look at any box score. They always list the refs.

[Tarik One]

Tom Donaghy did not officiate the 2002 WCF between the Lakers and Kings. The Game 6 screwjob to be particular. That atrocity was reffed by Dick Bavetta, Ted Bernhardt and Bob Delany.

[-primetime-]

first off, this guy did NOT ref any NBA Finals games in the last two years. I went and checked. Thats a GOOD thing for the NBA. What is bad is the dude did ref some playoffs game. Game 3 Spurs/Suns and Game 3 Mavs/GS. However, I didnt look either of those two up on my own. I only checked the last two Finals series and thankfully he was not in the mix.

You guys can look it up too if you want. Go to ESPN.com and look at any box score. They always list the refs.
thank you for confirming that for me...

I still question the other refs now however...

[ExpatSunsFan]

What is bad is the dude did ref some playoffs game. Game 3 Spurs/Suns and Game 3 Mavs/GS.
Which is actually much worse than having him ref SA/Cleveland, isn't it?

[RIMMER]

I want all you whiney Mavs fans to STFU:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2005/news/story?id=2051807



ESPN - Van Gundy fined $100K for remarks - NBA

DALLAS -- The NBA fined Houston Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy $100,000 -- the largest amount ever for a coach -- on Monday, a day after accusing officials of targeting center Yao Ming this postseason and saying Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban is to blame.

[-primetime-]

Which is actually much worse than having him ref SA/Cleveland, isn't it?
true

[Real Men Wear Green]

you say something intelegent like "this guy justifies peoples worst suspisions" and then go on to make a dumb ass comment like "mavs fans just want to bi-tch"...

so which is it?

do I not have the right to question that series now? you seemed to think this is "such a big deal" because of the fact that i do...
Well, maybe you don't want to *****, but you certainly do a lot of it. When I do something as much as you ***** without getting paid for it it's because I'm enjoying myself. You could just be suffering from a very lame version of masochism. My fault for assuming that you do things with your free time for fun, like I do. I suppose I'm obligated to explain my positions:

When I demonstrated my "intelegant," I was merely analyzing how the refs already-poor public perception could be badly-damaged by proof that yes, there are in fact corrupt officials reffing games. This does not mean that I think the corruption is wide-spread. You certainly have not shown that Tom Donaghy was unfairly ruling against Dallas in the Finals. The ref I hear Mav fans ***** about most often is, in fact, "Bennete Salvador." (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50164)So unless it comes out that he was a corrupt official (and no, tax evasion and possibly being a jerk does not prove that) your case doesn't have any real credibility. Or would it be reasonable for us Celtic fans to be whining that the team was second-worst in the league due to refs, and that if he got all the calls he should get Al Jefferson would have had a 30-20 season?

[kentatm]

thank you for confirming that for me...

I still question the other refs now however...


i wont do that on this particular issue unless info comes out that links them as well.

that doesnt mean I think there are not other crap refs though.

[ExpatSunsFan]

Well, maybe you don't want to *****, but you certainly do a lot of it. When I do something as much as you ***** without getting paid for it it's because I'm enjoying myself. You could just be suffering from a very lame version of masochism. My fault for assuming that you do things with your free time for fun, like I do. I suppose I'm obligated to explain my positions:

When I demonstrated my "intelegant," I was merely analyzing how the refs already-poor public perception could be badly-damaged by proof that yes, there are in fact corrupt officials reffing games. This does not mean that I think the corruption is wide-spread. You certainly have not shown that Tom Donaghy was unfairly ruling against Dallas in the Finals. The ref I hear Mav fans ***** about most often is, in fact, "Bennete Salvador." (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50164)So unless it comes out that he was a corrupt official (and no, tax evasion and possibly being a jerk does not prove that) your case doesn't have any real credibility. Or would it be reasonable for us Celtic fans to be whining that the team was second-worst in the league due to refs, and that if he got all the calls he should get Al Jefferson would have had a 30-20 season?

To be fair, Salvatore is one of the worst refs in the league, and IIRC he also went to the same high school as Doneghy.


(Just proving your original point, I guess, RMWG.)

[-primetime-]

Well, maybe you don't want to *****, but you certainly do a lot of it. When I do something as much as you ***** without getting paid for it it's because I'm enjoying myself. You could just be suffering from a very lame version of masochism. My fault for assuming that you do things with your free time for fun, like I do. I suppose I'm obligated to explain my positions:
what in the fu-ck does any of this have to do with anything? I bi-tch and you have fun with your free time, great....

When I demonstrated my "intelegant," I was merely analyzing how the refs already-poor public perception could be badly-damaged by proof that yes, there are in fact corrupt officials reffing games. This does not mean that I think the corruption is wide-spread. You certainly have not shown that Tom Donaghy was unfairly ruling against Dallas in the Finals. The ref I hear Mav fans ***** about most often is, in fact, "Bennete Salvador." (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50164)So unless it comes out that he was a corrupt official (and no, tax evasion and possibly being a jerk does not prove that) your case doesn't have any real credibility. Or would it be reasonable for us Celtic fans to be whining that the team was second-worst in the league due to refs, and that if he got all the calls he should get Al Jefferson would have had a 30-20 season?
I think that I now have the right to question any ref in the NBA...and I thought that was the point you were trying to make with your earlier post...basically saying "this is such a big deal becuase refs are looked at bad to begin with and now we are finding out our worst nightmares that they are in fact rigging games"....am I wrong?

or do you just make some kind of dumb ass exception for me because I am a Mavs fan?

[kentatm]

I want all you whiney Mavs fans to STFU:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2005/news/story?id=2051807

ESPN - Van Gundy fined $100K for remarks - NBA

DALLAS -- The NBA fined Houston Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy $100,000 -- the largest amount ever for a coach -- on Monday, a day after accusing officials of targeting center Yao Ming this postseason and saying Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban is to blame.

2 things.

1. Cuban complained to the L about Yao setting illegal moving screens w/o getting called for it which absolutely was the case.

2. JVG claimed to have been told by a ref the NBA was conspiring against the Rockets for the Mavs to win. When you stop for a moment and think about it, thats pure crazy talk. The Rockets are in a bigger TV market, had bigger star players in TMac and Yao and quite simply, dont have Cuban who Stern loathes as an owner. Really, just htink about how dumb it sounds that the NBA would purposely make a team lose thats in a huge TV market, that oh by the way has the most popular international draw in Yao, and could possibly pull a Shaq Yao Finals (the ratings would have been massive). Seriously, if they were going to fix that series, Dallas would be the ones on the short end.

JVG got f-ed b/c it then turned out that HE MADE IT UP. He is lucky he wasnt tossed from the L for attacking its credibility like that.

[Real Men Wear Green]

what in the fu-ck does any of this have to do with anything? I bi-tch and you have fun with your free time, great....

I think that I now have the right to question any ref in the NBA...and I thought that was the point you were trying to make with your earlier post...basically saying "this is such a big deal becuase refs are looked at bad to begin with and now we are finding out our worst nightmares that they are in fact rigging games"....am I wrong?

or do you just make some kind of dumb ass exception for me because I am a Mavs fan?
I make an exception because you're sitting there with your "dumb ass" Zapruder film (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50132&page=2) and acting as if the presence of questionable calls is proof of tainted refs. And of course, you didn't even know that Donaghy wasn't reffing those games.

But I will admit that sitting through over a year of Mav fan whining does make me less sympathetic.

[-primetime-]

I make an exception because you're sitting there with your "dumb ass" Zapruder film (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50132&page=2) and acting as if the presence of questionable calls is proof of tainted refs. And of course, you didn't even know that Donaghy wasn't reffing those games.

But I will admit that sitting through over a year of Mav fan whining does make me less sympathetic.
do I not have the right to question those calls?

wasn't that the whole point behind your explanation of why this is such a big deal?

just say "yes, you have the right to question those calls just like any other game" and move on...

you saying "mavs fans just want to bi-tch" contradicts your original statement.

[Shogon Vendetta]

http://sports.ktar.com/?nid=145&sid=479098



:)

You're an idiot. Bad officiating is bad officiating. Maybe that guy was rigging that game, and maybe he wasn't... but there were still 2 other refs. Were they rigging too, or just being dumbasses? Hi... ****yourselfplzkthx.

[Shogon Vendetta]

Let's ignore the entire scandal entirely and pretend we're a week in the past from now and prior.

The NBA officiating is absolute dog****. You need absolutely no further proof than the fact that the NBA dedicated an entire ****ing television program to examining officiating calls, most of the time in which they justify officials calls and only sometimes admit to calls being bad.

"Making the Call With Ronnie Nunn"

Think you got what it takes to make the call? Tune into Making the Call with Ronnie Nunn as he analyze plays, breaks down rules and covers the hot refereeing issues of the week. Then test your skill when Ronnie challenges you to make the call. Airs Wednesdays at 7:30 pm ET.

[PejaNowitzki]

You're an idiot. Bad officiating is bad officiating. Maybe that guy was rigging that game, and maybe he wasn't... but there were still 2 other refs. Were they rigging too, or just being dumbasses? Hi... ****yourselfplzkthx.


All it takes is one ref to make a few bad calls to change the outcome of a game. He doesn't need the others to be in on it as long as he makes enough calls to f%^k the flow of a game, or in the case of Game 3, he called 2 terrible early fouls on Amare that resulted in him having his ass glued to a bench and only playing 21 minutes.

[Shogon Vendetta]

All it takes is one ref to make a few bad calls to change the outcome of a game. He doesn't need the others to be in on it as long as he makes enough calls to f%^k the flow of a game, or in the case of Game 3, he called 2 terrible early fouls on Amare that resulted in him having his ass glued to a bench and only playing 21 minutes.

We're not talking about BAD CALLS. We're talking about NON CALLS. At least for the most part... the swallowing of the whistle when the Suns were getting hacked was not simply because we had one crooked ref in that game. It was because the officiating sucked.

[PejaNowitzki]

We're not talking about BAD CALLS. We're talking about NON CALLS. At least for the most part... the swallowing of the whistle when the Suns were getting hacked was not simply because we had one crooked ref in that game. It was because the officiating sucked.



What is the difference? If a foul occurs on his side of the court, and he is rigging the game for the team committing the foul, he could simply ignore it and pretend he never saw a damn thing. Its not like the other refs will come running from across the court to call something that they did not clearly see.

Even if the plays were not drawn to his side of the court everytime, a few calls here and there are more than enough to completely change the outcome of a close game.

He could also call fouls out of thin air. HE is the one who made that phantom ""Ginobili" call, where Manu Ginobili was supposedly fouled, but Donaghy didn't blow the whistle until both teams were already heading back downcourt.

[Real Men Wear Green]

do I not have the right to question those calls?

wasn't that the whole point behind your explanation of why this is such a big deal?

just say "yes, you have the right to question those calls just like any other game" and move on...

you saying "mavs fans just want to bi-tch" contradicts your original statement.
Read more carefully. No one says you don't have the "right." I'm saying that your persecution complex is stupid. You didn't even know that Donaghy wasn't at the games. The end.

[-primetime-]

Read more carefully. No one says you don't have the "right." I'm saying that your persecution complex is stupid. You didn't even know that Donaghy wasn't at the games. The end.

please explain...

I asked if he was and I found out that he wasn't...I made it clear that I didn't know but does that really matter at this point?

the simple fact that we now know that a single ref has been caught rigging games is enough for me to question all the others IMO....nothing stupid about that and I thought that is the point you were trying to make as to why this is such a big deal....suddenly everything is now in question.

[Jasper]

It seems all sports are hitting all cylinders in regards to scandel's these days.
About a week or so ago Gary Player said 10 pro golfers were using some form of drugs.

Milwaukee reports - If Bonds hits and ties Hammering Hanks homerun record in Miller park , the ball will be thrown back on the field ....
Bonds using some form of drugs ...

Now a ref for 2 plus years has had a gambling problem and like no one knows about it ??? Geeze - I thought these ref's were like brothers ?

NBA needs instant replay : last two minutes on critical calls.
Bad call by a ref (or 3 ref's) problem solved.
:sleeping

[kentatm]

The NBA responds on NBA.com




NEW YORK, July 20, 2007 – NBA Commissioner David Stern has issued the following statement:

"As we previously stated, we have been cooperating with the FBI in their investigation of allegations that a single NBA referee bet on NBA games that he officiated. As part of that cooperation, we were asked by the Government not to comment about the investigation, but in light of the widespread press coverage and the naming of the referee, Tim Donaghy, we consider it appropriate to make a fuller statement.

"We would like to assure our fans that no amount of effort, time or personnel is being spared to assist in this investigation, to bring to justice an individual who has betrayed the most sacred trust in professional sports, and to take the necessary steps to protect against this ever happening again. We will have more to say at a press conference that will be scheduled for next week."


link (http://www.nba.com/news/stern_statement_070720.html)

[gts]

Thanks Kentatm...


we have been cooperating with the FBI in their investigation of allegations that a single NBA referee

of course the manic Dallas fans will point to the grassy hill and the lone gunman theory as being all wrong too....lol

[GoRapz]

If Donaghy ever officiates a game again this should happen to him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enUCSPcq3yY

[-primetime-]

Thanks Kentatm...



of course the manic Dallas fans will point to the grassy hill and the lone gunman theory as being all wrong too....lol
there was a second shooter....yes

[bringthetruth]

The only reason why most fans didn't want to believe in the fix is because they would be hurt if the nba were at the level of the WWE, so most looked the other way when the signs of "THE FIX" were right in front of our faces.

When there is a conspiracy 5% know about it adn about 2% are involved, so when you would ask the other 93% about it , you were looked at like a NUTJOB .

The Love of Money has ruined Sports and our country!

Football has the same problem(just haven't been exposed yet)....They generate more cheddar than all other pro sports

[-primetime-]

The only reason why most fans didn't want to believe in the fix is because they would be hurt if the nba were at the level of the WWE, so most looked the other way when the signs of "THE FIX" were right in front of our faces.

When there is a conspiracy 5% know about it adn about 2% are involved, so when you would ask the other 93% about it , you were looked at like a NUTJOB .

The Love of Money has ruined Sports and our country!

Football has the same problem(just haven't been exposed yet)....They generate more cheddar than all other pro sports
the only thing a ref can fix in a football game is pass interferance...

much easier to rig basketball....there are so many fouls that is it is easy to sneak in a bad call here and there

[bringthetruth]

the only thing a ref can fix in a football game is pass interferance...

much easier to rig basketball....there are so many fouls that is it is easy to sneak in a bad call here and there

They can also fix the goal line TD's. Remember Pittsburg QB Ben Rothelsburger, he didn't get over the goal line against the seahawks.

Also I have seen them rule no fumble when a GUY really did fumble before touching the ground...even after instant replay.

How about coordinators calling the famous "prevent defense" when in the entire game the defense was shutting the team down.

Money makes pro sport teams do crazy things.

[-primetime-]

They can also fix the goal line TD's. Remember Pittsburg QB Ben Rothelsburger, he didn't get over the goal line against the seahawks.

Also I have seen them rule no fumble when a GUY really did fumble before touching the ground...even after instant replay.

How about coordinators calling the famous "prevent defense" when in the entire game the defense was shutting the team down.

Money makes pro sport teams do crazy things.
well yeah...they are all playing for thier jobs....there job/money is at stake.

when it comes down to it, money is the reason they are out there.

I still think it is 10x more likley to see a ref rig a basketball game rather than a football game.

there was that OU vs. Oregon game last year where the refs were susended for doing such a bad job, but that was a rare situation.

I think rigging games is 100x more likley in at the college level where a player that has no income can be payed off to miss his shots or a kicker can be payed to miss all his field goals...

[BankShot]

there was that OU vs. Oregon game last year where the refs were susended for doing such a bad job, but that was a rare situation.


Now THAT was hilarious. I go to the University of Oregon and still new it was a TERRIBLE call. The funniest part was all of my fellow Ducks that thought it was the right call. Ha.

[Noob Saibot]

According to ESPN. Donaghy never reffed in any NBA Finals games. So the Mavs/Heat series doesn't count.

[bringthetruth]

I will never forget the minnesota -dallas playoff game when Drew Pearson pushed off and made viking DB fall down -- he caught the ball and ran in for a TD.

Viking fans were heated, so a fan threw a bottle from the stands and bingo ...cracked the refs head wide open on national tv back in the 70"s

[reppy]

I don't remember seeing this posted here:

"Donaghy is perhaps best-known previously as one of the referees in the 2004 game at Detroit that ended with Indiana Pacers players fighting with Pistons fans, among the biggest black marks in league history."

"Donaghy officiated 68 games in the 2005-06 season and 63 games in 2006-07, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. He also worked 20 playoff games, including five last season — Pistons-Magic on April 23; Warriors-Mavericks on April 27; Suns-Lakers on April 29; Nets-Raptors on May 4; and Spurs-Suns on May 12. Those studying Donaghy’s games might have noticed some trends. When the home team was favored by 0-4 1/2 points, it went 5-12 in games officiated by Donaghy this season, according to Covers.com, a Web site that tracks referee trends. Home underdogs were 1-7 when the spread was 5-9.5 points. Donaghy was part of a crew working the Heat-Knicks game in New York in February when the Knicks shot 39 free throws to the Heat’s eight, technical fouls were called on Heat coach Pat Riley and assistant Ron Rothstein, and the Knicks won by six. New York was favored by 4 1/2."

Full article at: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BKN_BETTING_PROBE?SITE=CAANR&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[-primetime-]

Now THAT was hilarious. I go to the University of Oregon and still new it was a TERRIBLE call. The funniest part was all of my fellow Ducks that thought it was the right call. Ha.
there were like 2 or 3 horrible calls that effected that outcomeof that game wasn't there?

yeah...that game was really bad, I don't remember seeing anything that bad before in football.

[nash4eva!gosuns]

In some ways the NBA is lucky this has been exposed now and can be fixed and thoroughly investigated. That is far better than it continuting to happen unnoticed.


it can't be fixed...the spurs have the frickin championship

[BankShot]

there were like 2 or 3 horrible calls that effected that outcomeof that game wasn't there?

yeah...that game was really bad, I don't remember seeing anything that bad before in football.

yeah probably, i didn't watch the game as I was home in Minnesota... but yes that had to have been the worst in terms of college football

[RandomBalla55]

Football is hard to fix but if you know what to call, you can do it.

See the Seattle vs Pitt SB. EVERY stinkin time Seattle moved the ball, holding call was made. Holding is something is so subjective that if a ref really wanted to, he could call it every time. He just called it every time when the Seahawks moved the ball. Coincidence?

All Sports are probably tainted anyway. Although I think it'd be tough to fix Golf. Tennis maybe you can fix with shady line calling but that's hard to fix too. The mainstream sports such as NHL, NBA, NFL, College Sports (VERY easy to do so), and to a lesser extent maybe the MLB, it can be done.

[KempSonics]

I think Donaghy being the ref Sheed got involved with after the game might mean something. Maybe Sheed knew something?

[ReturnOfJimi]

I think Donaghy being the ref Sheed got involved with after the game might mean something. Maybe Sheed knew something?

All three refs played hard.

[WuTangWizard]

apparently.

if people think the games are fixed they won't watch. If they don't watch, what is the nba? and people already think games are fixed even before this.

why is this hard to understand?
You guys are idiots. Because one ref has a gambling problem and took his problems to the court translates into the game being fixed? I agree that it's a serious issue, but it's only one guy and it won't have too much of a negative effect on the sport going forward.

[final.wrath]

You guys are idiots. Because one ref has a gambling problem and took his problems to the court translates into the game being fixed? I agree that it's a serious issue, but it's only one guy and it won't have too much of a negative effect on the sport going forward.

the fact that it went undiscovered by the league is worrying. no guarantees that this is the only guy who fixed games. matter of fact I'd bet he wasn't.

[Targus]

No outcome in profession sports should be decided by people who are there to whistle contact and calls. the role of the referees in the NBA has been magnified so much for the past few years...

[gts]

the fact that it went undiscovered by the league is worrying. no guarantees that this is the only guy who fixed games. matter of fact I'd bet he wasn't.as close as the refs are watched not only by the NBA but by vegas odds makers themselves for inconsistencies the things he called could not have been to blatant..

on the radio tonight they had a former FBI agent who said he belived that the intial investigation was probably directed at another party outside of basketball and they stumbled across this ref that way...

[Burgz]

this isnt some small "get over it" matter
this is HUGE, when i found out i was SHOCKED
never would of thought of Tim Donaghy
totally slipped my mind when i tried to think who
just like Chris Sheridan said as well
just never wouldve guessed

[PejaNowitzki]

You guys are idiots. Because one ref has a gambling problem and took his problems to the court translates into the game being fixed? I agree that it's a serious issue, but it's only one guy and it won't have too much of a negative effect on the sport going forward.



Are you naive enough to think that this is only one guy. I think this is simply the tip of the iceberg here.

[eliteballer]

http://msn.foxsports.com/id/7044340_36_1.jpg

This could be the end of Stern.

[Burgz]

Are you naive enough to think that this is only one guy. I think this is simply the tip of the iceberg here.

i agree
i say wait and see
wouldnt be very smart just to think that this Donaghy is the beginning and end of it all

[Z3120]

The upcoming season and what will follow after this incident will be very interesting to see (at least for me a little bit). I think no matter what Stern or the NBA does, the integrity of the game will never be the same. To those that don't care as much, alright, but to those who think this is a mere small issue where firing a referee (or referees) will solve this whole entire thing, you're entirely wrong. Even I'm wondering if he coached in any of the games I've watched like the Kings and Lakers WCF, the Heat and Mavs Finals and recently the Spurs and Suns series (Thank God he only did like one game in the Spurs and Sun series but still, it's significant).

Now the conspiracy theories will begin, and we'll all have to watch in delight, or disappointed, how huge or catastrophic this will truly turn out to be. I wonder how much the NBA will suffer this upcoming year. If Tim Donaghy was involved in games where like some have already said were getting-into-playoff-deciding games, I'll be incredibly mad if that's why the Warriors might not have made it the previous year. Perhaps Tim Donaghy didn't do so and so during games and actually officiated a 'clean' game, but there's always the lingering thought of what-ifs.

(I still thought the technical foul at the Warrior's home floor [was it there?] against the Wizards was incredibly dumb and one example I'd definitely use on how much control refs have on a game)

[RIMMER]

You guys are idiots. Because one ref has a gambling problem and took his problems to the court translates into the game being fixed? I agree that it's a serious issue, but it's only one guy and it won't have too much of a negative effect on the sport going forward.

I know we'd all love to think that, but the matter of the fact is that when you catch one cockroach, there's bound to be a million more.

[statman32]

This sucks. It actually makes me sick to my stomach. I'm not the biggest baseball fan so the steroid scandal didnt affect me too much but this hits close to home. David Stern has coddled refs way too long and he finally got what he deserved and what fans didnt deserve.

The first game I thought of when this first came out was game 3 of the Suns vs Spurs series and I wasn't surprised that Tim reffed that game. Everything about it was suspicious but I wont jump to conclusions till more information is released. I just hope to god no big games were affected.

[PhxFanAtBirth]

This sucks. It actually makes me sick to my stomach. I'm not the biggest baseball fan so the steroid scandal didnt affect me too much but this hits close to home. David Stern has coddled refs way too long and he finally got what he deserved and what fans didnt deserve.

The first game I thought of when this first came out was game 3 of the Suns vs Spurs series and I wasn't surprised that Tim reffed that game. Everything about it was suspicious but I wont jump to conclusions till more information is released. I just hope to god no big games were affected.

I'm not sure if this is big enough for you but i'd like you to know:

GAME 3: 1ST Quarter- Amare picks up two fouls within the first five minutes.

4TH Quarter- Amare already had 4 fouls picks up the 5th with only 19 seconds passed in the final period.

Coincedence? I'd like to know who made those calls.... I'm guessing foul one was legitimate i'm also guessing that fouls 2 and 5 were complete bull ****.....


Also the game where nash was being hacked all night. then with i think 30 seconds left and the suns down by 11 tom calls a reaching in foul on i think bowen. This is where d'antoni yelled "WHY NOW???"

[Chrono90]

not really suprised, im sure theres other refs other than Tom that are crooked also. Just don't be suprised in the game of business. Anything can happen.

[statman32]

I'm not sure if this is big enough for you but i'd liek you to know:

GAME 3: 1ST Quarter- Amare picks up two fouls within the first five minutes.

4TH Quarter- Amare already had 4 fouls picks up the 5th with only 19 seconds passed in the final period.

Coincedence? I'd like to know who made those calls.... I'm guessing foul one was legitimate i'm also guessing that fouls 2 and 5 were complete bull ****.....
I would also love to know who made those calls and others during that game but what people can't start doing is saying every bad call was part of Tims "plan".

I'd first like to know which games were rigged and I think that info will be out soon.

[PhxFanAtBirth]

I would also love to know who made those calls and others during that game but what people can't start doing is saying every bad call was part of Tims "plan".

I'd first like to know which games were rigged and I think that info will be out soon.

I'd be willing to bet game 3 will appear on your "rigged" list, above all others i'd say this one is blatantly obvious.....

[fatboy11]

I think people on this board are going to feel stupid for making such a big deal about this when they found out how little games this guy actually "influenced" and how little the importance of those games were.

Like I've been saying all day, not that big of a deal. Certainly won't take "decades" to get past.

But what do I know? I'm pretty dense.

[statman32]

not really suprised, im sure theres other refs other than Tom that are crooked also. Just don't be suprised in the game of business. Anything can happen.
Exactly but its David Stern and other people in charge jobs to do everything they can do to prevent situations like this. In this case I think David Stern has done a HORRIBLE job.

[PhxFanAtBirth]

I think people on this board are going to feel stupid for making such a big deal about this when they found out how little games this guy actually "influenced" and how little the importance of those games were.

Like I've been saying all day, not that big of a deal. Certainly won't take "decades" to get past.

But what do I know? I'm pretty dense.

Little Importance? hmm we'll see about that.....

[fatboy11]

Little Importance? hmm we'll see about that.....Okay, so he hasn't officiated a Finals game during this period in question. Doesn't get any more important than that.

Also didn't call Game 5 of the Suns/Spurs.

You'll see. You guys are also assuming EVERY game he called, he "influenced". I think this is a bigger deal for the FBI than the NBA.

[statman32]

I think people on this board are going to feel stupid for making such a big deal about this when they found out how little games this guy actually "influenced" and how little the importance of those games were.

Like I've been saying all day, not that big of a deal. Certainly won't take "decades" to get past.

But what do I know? I'm pretty dense.
Who cares how important the games he "influenced" were? If the games were big then this would be a horrendous atrocity. If they were just small games it would still be just as bad and imo even worse than the "drug phase" in the 80's. Cheating is a big deal especially at a pro level and I don't like the idea that any games could have been influenced.

I wouldn't say it will take decades to get past but it's not something we should sweep under the rug. I just hope that David Stern doesn't influence results from next years season as spin control.

[RIMMER]

I think people on this board are going to feel stupid for making such a big deal about this when they found out how little games this guy actually "influenced" and how little the importance of those games were.

Like I've been saying all day, not that big of a deal. Certainly won't take "decades" to get past.

But what do I know? I'm pretty dense.

Every time a questionable call is made, guess what people will be referring to? This gives bitter fans and conspiracy theorists all the ammo they need for the rest of their lives. The effect of this breach is augmented by the fact that the NBA record for game fixing has been pretty spotless until now.

[PhxFanAtBirth]

Okay, so he hasn't officiated a Finals game during this period in question. Doesn't get any more important than that.

Also didn't call Game 5 of the Suns/Spurs.

You'll see. You guys are also assuming EVERY game he called, he "influenced". I think this is a bigger deal for the FBI than the NBA.

Game 3 suns/spurs read my other posts

[fatboy11]

Every time a questionable call is made, guess what people will be referring to? This gives bitter fans and conspiracy theorists all the ammo they need for the rest of their lives. The effect of this breach is augmented by the fact that the NBA record for game fixing has been pretty spotless until now.So fans are going to act the same as they have been? :confusedshrug:

League was already corrupt to many.......

[fatboy11]

Game 3 suns/spurs read my other postsWhat are you going to do when the mob and the ref say that he didn't "rig" that game?

You guys are assuming way too much, IMO.

[reppy]

What are you going to do when the mob and the ref say that he didn't "rig" that game?

You guys are assuming way too much, IMO.

Yeah, I suppose everyone will believe him and the mob. Boy, they'll feel like dumbasses.

[fatboy11]

Yeah, I suppose everyone will believe him and the mob. Boy, they'll feel like dumbasses.Not even the lead story on SportsCenter.........

Big deal, eh? :confusedshrug:

[fatboy11]

Steve Nash is on here laughing about it. Reporters are laughing.

This is serious, for sure. Big setback? Not at all, IMO.

[poeticism707]

That is the stupidest thing you could possibly say. What makes Stern and the NBA more money, a thriving, healthy league or a league littered with bad pub and betting scandals?

Stern cares about money for the L and his fellow owners, not illicit gambling money. Idiot.

Why wouldn't Stern, or anyone else in the world for that matter, not want to have their cake and eat it too?

This league is built top to bottom and back again on the foundation of idolatry and lust for money! How ironic that that you want to infuse a world a vice with virtue! And how naive. VIRTUE AND VICE DO NOT MIX, NEITHER LIGHT AND DARKNESS.

The NBA is completely rigged (along with every major sport), and Stern is the king of this particular den of thieves. However, the term "honor of among thieves" is an oxymoron, and the NBA is now painting this referee to be its scapegoat (just ask Nero, who persecuted and tortured first century Christians brutally, to mask that he himself had burned Rome to the ground).

[LowRider236]

NBA is completely rigged
You are a moron. Please think through of how that is possible before you start replying.

And fatboy11, it is okay if you don't think this is a big deal from your point of view. I didn't give a damn about the steroids too. However to say it is not a big deal to the NBA or it's fan is a bit too much.

Like mentioned, this will be a sensitive topic from now on, every game, every whistle, every foul will be questioned. You have homers like that Mavs fan over there who wants to question his team's playoffs failures through this.
I guarantee you Playoffs 2008, the fans of whichever team that lost first will shout "RIGGED!"
It's probably one of the biggest news for the NBA in a few years, and when more details are out, it will be blown further.

[SCREWstonRockets]

I think people on this board are going to feel stupid for making such a big deal about this when they found out how little games this guy actually "influenced" and how little the importance of those games were.

Like I've been saying all day, not that big of a deal. Certainly won't take "decades" to get past.

But what do I know? I'm pretty dense.

C'mon now, not a big deal? A NBA Ref with a gambling problem gets caught up with the MOB and effects the outcomes of certain games. This is professional sports, stuff like that is not suppose to happen. So when something like this does go down and the feds get involved, it's definately a big deal. The importance of the games he officiated doesn't even matter, it doesn't change the fact that he made certain calls to effect the outcome of the game.

Personally, I bet on lots of NBA games and messing with the spread could cause a team to lose or win, not just how many points you win/lose by. I agree that it's not going to get"decades" to get past, but it's not like you can shake it off and act like it never happened. If people thought the Brawl at the Palace gave the NBA a bad image, this one is going to be much worst. Because this isn't some NBA player thats doing this, its an actual NBA Referee. The guy who is basically in charge of the game, the one with the most power. People already want to lable the NBA as nothing but "thugs and gangsters" and now they got corruption with a guy thats suppose to keep the game in control. Who knows, there could be more Refs like this.

On a postitive note, this sounds like an episode of the Sopranos :roll:. Somebody is gonna get WHACKED!

[D-Fence]

Wow.

The integrity of NBA basketball has been significantly hurt by this. 68 games in the 2005-06 and 63 games in the 2006-07 games, as well as 20 playoff games are under question. Apparently, he was clean for the remainder of the 772 NBA games he officiated. What doesn't seem in doubt is that this referee scripted the outcome of NBA games. This is terrible for the game, and I feel disappointed as a fan.

Some other interesting connections to this story:

Tom Donaghy was one of the 3 referees to officiate the Pacers-Pistos game that ended up with Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson, Jermaine O'Neal, etc. fighting fans. Apparently, many referees have commented that the referees of that game should have prevented the brawl by diffusing the Ben Wallace-Ron Artest confrontation more swiftly and forcefully.

This guy seems to have been an awful referee all around.

I would think that a better system for watching and grading referees will have to be inacted.

---

College basketball was tarnished by its betting scandals. Not the recent ones, but rather the ones back in the 1940s-50s. There's a book about how Jack Molinas single-handedly nearly ruined college basketball. Molinas played in the BAA (which became the NBA), as well, and he certainly bet on BAA games that he and his team played in. The BAA acted swiftly and largely avoided the tarnsih of the scandles while college basketball took the brunt of it.

Molinas only got to play 29 games in the league, which is a lot less than 772. Moreover, College basketball was bigger than pro basketball back then--a lot bigger. The BAA/NBA largely avoided being tarnished by the scandals because few followed the league anyhow.

The NBA now is a major sport. Its image has alredy been largely hurt among some audiences by being associated with hip hop, and among others with the various legal and image issues surrounding some players' criminal or wrongful behavior. The NBA has especially lost a lot of appeal in the US. This Donaghy scandal isn't going to help matters.

---

Additionally, this scandal is going to motivate some fans to continue believing and spouting their ridiculous conspiracy theories. All they have to do now is point at Donaghy as flimsy support for whatever grand scheme they imagine the NBA and David Stern are concocting.

[bringthetruth]

The chickens have come home to roost, NBA offical nabbed in illegal betting ring stern is "the don" of the League.

[wally_world]

screw him... now basketball could be regarded "staged" like football thanks to these types of *******s!

[poeticism707]

You are a moron. Please think through of how that is possible before you start replying.
And fatboy11, it is okay if you don't think this is a big deal from your point of view. I didn't give a damn about the steroids too. However to say it is not a big deal to the NBA or it's fan is a bit too much.

Like mentioned, this will be a sensitive topic from now on, every game, every whistle, every foul will be questioned. You have homers like that Mavs fan over there who wants to question his team's playoffs failures through this.
I guarantee you Playoffs 2008, the fans of whichever team that lost first will shout "RIGGED!"
It's probably one of the biggest news for the NBA in a few years, and when more details are out, it will be blown further.

You should refrain from calling anyone a moron without any explanation whatsoever, your best case being you cannot explain your viewpoint
(likely), or you have no viewpoint (more likely).

Personally, I'll be glad when the NBA is show undoubtedly to be a fraud. NBA fans are as pathetic and fool hardly as WWE fans, willing to fight others, curse, etc to "prove" the NBA is not fixed! It is laughable. Maybe after it is shown to be fixed, a few individuals will wake up and stop putting their faith in this false god of basketball (or any other sport). If ISH is any way a representative for the basketball community though, then you NBA fans will only continue to delude yourselves.

[LowRider236]

You should refrain from calling anyone a moron without any explanation whatsoever, your best case being you cannot explain your viewpoint
(likely), or you have no viewpoint (more likely).

Personally, I'll be glad when the NBA is show undoubtedly to be a fraud. NBA fans are as pathetic and fool hardly as WWE fans, willing to fight others, curse, etc to "prove" the NBA is not fixed! It is laughable. Maybe after it is shown to be fixed, a few individuals will wake up and stop putting their faith in this false god of basketball (or any other sport). If ISH is any way a representative for the basketball community though, then you NBA fans will only continue to delude yourselves.
Yes, I apologized for that. but.
Wow. Are you seriously?
Please let me know, in what ways do you believe the NBA is rigged? I'm finding it impossible that an adult would believe so. Perhaps worse than a WWE fan believing wrestling is real. Do you think the referees are the ones rigging games? Or do you think the players are?

And to other posters, am I the only one thinking how ridiculous this is? for someone to believe the NBA is totally rigged. Or are there more of you out there?
Anyways, poet, let me know how you believe the NBA is rigged, then we'll see where this goes. See if you got a point or not.

[fatboy11]

1. Is this going to take the NBA off the air?

2. Are world class basketball players going to stop coming to/leave the NBA?

3. Will we be talking about this in 6 months?

Answer to all of that is "no". This isn't as big of a deal was people are making it out to be and most of you are assuming he "influenced" every game he reffed in that period of time and I guarantee you he didn't.

Someone on this board has called me "dense" three times, but I think I'm the only one who probably understands what has happened here. Think about it. They don't want to get caught, right? (I know they did get caught so don't start) Don't you think rigging big time games would draw the most attention?

I'm telling you, the games being rigged were games like the Bobcats vs. the Hawks. Stuff like that that no one is going to give a f*ck about or notice. Someone tipped the feds off. That's how they got caught. I think when this whole thing is done and Donaghy reveals the games he "influenced", the number of actually important games is going to be far, far less than you guys think.

[LowRider236]

3. Will we be talking about this in 6 months?

Yes. Watch when playoff rolls by.

By the way, I think the only person calling you dense is yourself, as I saw it in 2 or 3 of your own post.

Just because this doesn't shut down the league doesn't mean it's a small thing. It's going to affect a lot of things next year, and the refs will have to earn their respect back. Especially with Stern giving all the power to the refs this year, the zero tolerance rule, I think it's gonna get real awkward when a player disagrees with the ref next year.
What if next year players themselves are unhappy with the foul calls and at the end of the game says the game is rigged? That is bound to come, and will be another huge hit.
All mention of this in the past, the people have been fined. So what will come of them next year? Stern can't fine them anymore, or people will be saying he's hiding things.

[fatboy11]

By the way, I think the only person calling you dense is yourself, as I saw it in 2 or 3 of your own post.Kent ATM. You'll have to check various threads.


Just because this doesn't shut down the league doesn't mean it's a small thing. It's going to affect a lot of things next year, and the refs will have to earn their respect back. Especially with Stern giving all the power to the refs this year, the zero tolerance rule, I think it's gonna get real awkward when a player disagrees with the ref next year.
What if next year players themselves are unhappy with the foul calls and at the end of the game says the game is rigged? That is bound to come, and will be another huge hit.
All mention of this in the past, the people have been fined. So what will come of them next year? Stern can't fine them anymore, or people will be saying he's hiding thingsUh, no.

I guarantee nothing will change as far as refereeing goes. Watch.

[poeticism707]

Yes, I apologized for that. but.
Wow. Are you seriously?
Please let me know, in what ways do you believe the NBA is rigged? I'm finding it impossible that an adult would believe so. Perhaps worse than a WWE fan believing wrestling is real. Do you think the referees are the ones rigging games? Or do you think the players are?

And to other posters, am I the only one thinking how ridiculous this is? for someone to believe the NBA is totally rigged. Or are there more of you out there?
Anyways, poet, let me know how you believe the NBA is rigged, then we'll see where this goes. See if you got a point or not.

Now matter how great the basketball played in the NBA, it is far second to image: image is what sells: image is the god of the NBA nation (the image of the beast, in fact). This is why any and every champion team, which is mostly synonymous with most marketable (few exceptions, ie Spurs) feature arrogant asses as the premier players, the likes of which you wouldn't want dating your daughter, being your supervisor, or even your neighbor. The media hypes them as "tough minded individuals", who would as soon punch their own mother in the face to win a contest as look at you, then counterbalance this by showing them breathing or eating "just like humans!" they media portrays. Even though the league is is mostly African-American, race is largely irrelevant. Case in point: Larry Bird and Phil Jackson (along with Red Auerbach) are some of the worst perpetrators of competitiveness to the point of being long past to a fault. While this behavior is somehow entertaining on the basketball court, it is not so entertaining when a youth is murdered in cold blood for his $200 gym shoes. Why should he give them up to his assailant? MJ didn't give an inch, nor Bird, nor Magic, etc. You see my point? The parallels that are made are groundless, and while the successful athletes of today are making a killing financially from their sport as well as from the companies that market them (Nike, Converse, etc), at what cost? Ultimately, this is an empire built on the backs of those who can barely afford the materials or cannot, make poor financial decisions to acquire them (thus hurting families and relationships), or rob and kill one another to get them. There is blood on everyone's hands involved: no one involved is exempt.

Back to the practicals. The NBA being rigged is not very difficult at all for many reasons. First, it is a game of contact, and thus almost all whistles are subjective (ie how fast was a count, who initiated the contact, etc). Secondly, not everyone needs to be in the loop (hence the outrage of many players); it only takes to one lead referee to overrule others at critical times, or one non-lead official to make calls that go unchallenged, in which most calls do. Lastly, like the WWE, there are general favorites but the unfavored must win to play on the "nerve of drama," which is why the Spurs were allowed to win their 4th title as the most hated team (mostly classy though).

Why hasn't this been discovered? David Stern is an intelligent and shrewd criminal. He has duped the media into this attitude of it being "laughable" to be a "conspiracy theorists", and so the media does. He leaves behind no evidence, but even if he does, there is no warrant to search for it! Last of all, he hangs his employee out to dry at the first sign of trouble (see Joey Crawford's ejection of Tim Duncan, as well as this referee scandal), who of course don't care mostly because they are well paid for their services, a little as an NBA ref, much more as mob "overseer" (for those of them who are in the know, maybe all, probably few).

[poeticism707]

:banana:

[poeticism707]

:pimp:

[Heilige]

:pimp:



:sleeping

[poeticism707]

:pimp:

[clipps]

:pimp:

:facepalm

[Wally450]

Why are you bumping 14 year old threads just to make an emoji?

[wagexslave]

The year is 2021 and still.... everyone, especially every Suns fan say it with me loud and proud....

:dancin F*CK TIM DONAGHY!!!!! :rockon:

[tpols]

But when people say we say shit is rigged here and there, in circumstances where it obviously is, they cry tin foil.

[wagexslave]

But when people say we say shit is rigged here and there, in circumstances where it obviously is, they cry tin foil.

Ye how quickly they forget that the refs have been proven to be crooked in the past.

[tpols]

Ye how quickly they forget that the refs have been proven to be crooked in the past.

The thing is Donaghy is the lowest guy on the totem pole. He's not calling any shots, he's just the low level guy that got pinched and ended up ratting on the real bosses. Where manipulations are orchestrated top down.

[clipps]

Why are you bumping 14 year old threads just to make an emoji?

It's a good topic. Piss off.

[Kings2024Champs]

Kings real 2002 NBA Champs