Thru 37 games, Lebron is 18-19, while MJ was 26-21 thru 47 games in 02'

[3ba11]

Wizards were a 4 seed and winning after being lottery the prior year.

Jordan had numerous 40/50 point games and multiple game-winners.. 1 of 3 guys getting 25/5/5 (kobe/tmac/mj)

He was expected to carry the Wizards and was willing to take his chances in the playoffs, while Lebron stacks the deck via super-team to pad his resume..

[Hey Yo]

7ppg took FMVP votes away from MJ.

[3ba11]

7ppg took FMVP votes away from MJ.


Let's not forget that Lebron is failing this year by losing with a super-team of HOF's.

His weak brand simply underachieves it's talent and this year's fall from one of the favorites to underdog/loser is just another example - his weak brand infact turned the preseason favorite to Finals underdog or loser for 7 straight years from 2010-2016.

[MadDog]

Wizards Jordan is actually underrated. Before that injury, Jordan had his team in the playoff hunt and was pretty efficient relative to that era (statistically the BEST defensive era). Watching both players games, you have to consider today's spacing and ease with which perimeter players score. Defense doesn't usually kick up until the postseason (or near then) and I'm really not gonna evaluate LeBron until that point.

LeBron is scoring well, but I still dont trust his impact. Gotta see more.

[Hey Yo]

No Phil, I quit

[ShawkFactory]

Wasn’t the East around that time like...super weak? Your word, not mine.

[SATAN]

https://www.basketsession.com/statics/uploads/2008/11/Michael-Jordan-John-Rogers-760x459.jpg

[3ba11]

Wasn’t the East around that time like...super weak? Your word, not mine.


Yes, and that's why MJ had a chance to win it if he stayed healthy (if he had bron's roids) - he already dominated the Nets in the regular season and I don't see any 1-star team beating MJ in the playoffs.

However, those Wizards were lottery the prior year and big underdogs, whereas these Lakers were supposed to be a super-team.

So as usual Lebron's weak brand is underachieving the talent expectation - his entire career - he turned the preseason favorite to Finals underdog or loser for 7 straight years from 2010-2016.

[ShawkFactory]

2002 MJ:

22.9/5.7/5.2. 20.7 PER 0.75 WS/48 3.1 BPM 2.7 VORP

2021-22 Lebron:

28.6/7.5/6.6 26.9 PER .211 WS/48 8.2 BPM 2.4 VORP

Better across the board. Literally every single one.

[ELITEpower23]

https://www.basketsession.com/statics/uploads/2008/11/Michael-Jordan-John-Rogers-760x459.jpg

Shut it down :oldlol: Let's go home :pimp:

[StrongLurk]

2002 MJ:

22.9/5.7/5.2. 20.7 PER 0.75 WS/48 3.1 BPM 2.7 VORP

2021-22 Lebron:

28.6/7.5/6.6 26.9 PER .211 WS/48 8.2 BPM 2.4 VORP

Better across the board. Literally every single one.

No one can cure OP's misery except himself. We are simply seeing his daily meltdowns through ISH.

[3ba11]

2002 MJ:

22.9/5.7/5.2. 20.7 PER 0.75 WS/48 3.1 BPM 2.7 VORP

2021-22 Lebron:

28.6/7.5/6.6 26.9 PER .211 WS/48 8.2 BPM 2.4 VORP

Better across the board. Literally every single one.


It's called perimeter era "westbrooking" and it can't win like quick scoring, so Lebron is losing again with a super-team, while MJ was winning with the lottery Wizards

[MadDog]

No one can cure OP's misery except himself. We are simply seeing his daily meltdowns through ISH.

I've gone back and forth with OP, and while his posts come off as insecure, they're no different than the other side. All trolls pollute the forum.

[ELITEpower23]

2002 MJ:

22.9/5.7/5.2. 20.7 PER 0.75 WS/48 3.1 BPM 2.7 VORP

2021-22 Lebron:

28.6/7.5/6.6 26.9 PER .211 WS/48 8.2 BPM 2.4 VORP

Better across the board. Literally every single one.

Well that ended quickly :oldlol:

[3ba11]

Well that ended quickly :oldlol:


Imagine being thrilled about westbrooking stats that lose

Literally a losing record with super-team

Somehow you think that's better than MJ winning with a lottery team

MJ just played a superior WAY, so he could win with a lot less

[MadDog]

Again, defense should be taken into account. Same with league wide efficiency (relative to the era). Per 100 possession stats help, but they're still not fully contextualized.

[ShawkFactory]

Imagine being thrilled about westbrooking stats that lose

Literally a losing record with super-team

Somehow you think that's better than MJ winning with a lottery team

MJ just played a superior WAY, so he could win with a lot less

Tell us youre reasoning as to how Mo Williams is better than Scottie Pippen again.

[3ba11]

Again, defense should be taken into account. Same with league wide efficiency (relative to the era). Per 100 possession stats help, but they're still not fully contextualized.


Very true

and winning - winning matters

If one guy is winning with a lot less help, then he's obviously playing a superior WAY

Actual winning vs the expectation

[MadDog]

Very true

and winning - winning matters

If one guy is winning with a lot less help, then he's obviously playing a superior WAY

Actual winning vs the expectation

Good point. I'm interested to see LeBron's RAPM and RPM numbers this year. RPM comes out soon and I suspect his impact isn't what his fans believe. If prime LeBron was averaging these numbers today, the Lakers win a few more of their games. His defense and playmaking haven't looked the same. The Laker fans I talk with think they'd be better off with LeBron coring less, but revving it up on defense.

[Axe]

My goodness, is there any day in this board where these stupid freaks don't talk about mj vs lbj shit? :lol:facepalm

[RRR3]

On/Off

LeBron +7.2
MJ +3.1




So much for Snivelly’s theory

[TheGoatest]

https://www.basketsession.com/statics/uploads/2008/11/Michael-Jordan-John-Rogers-760x459.jpg

:roll:

Damn, OP keeps on being the public urinal of this forum.

[ELITEpower23]

https://www.basketsession.com/statics/uploads/2008/11/Michael-Jordan-John-Rogers-760x459.jpg

Wrap this one up :oldlol: Next thread

[Dray n Klay]

https://www.basketsession.com/statics/uploads/2008/11/Michael-Jordan-John-Rogers-760x459.jpg

:roll:

[2much_knowledge]

2002 MJ:

22.9/5.7/5.2. 20.7 PER 0.75 WS/48 3.1 BPM 2.7 VORP

2021-22 Lebron:

28.6/7.5/6.6 26.9 PER .211 WS/48 8.2 BPM 2.4 VORP

Better across the board. Literally every single one.

Pre injury numbers please? Nice try tho

[ShawkFactory]

Pre injury numbers please? Nice try tho

24.5/6.1/5.4 on .418%.

Still lower across the board. Didn't even look at the advanced ones for that stretch because of course those will be way lower as well.

[RRR3]

24.5/6.1/5.4 on .418%.

Still lower across the board. Didn't even look at the advanced ones for that stretch because of course those will be way lower as well.
I love how Jordan stans pretend he was still a superstar before getting hurt in 2002 :oldlol:

Absolutely comical

[3ba11]

24.5/6.1/5.4 on .418%.

Still lower across the board. Didn't even look at the advanced ones for that stretch because of course those will be way lower as well.


You aren't accounting for league-wide DRTG or pace, which makes Jordan's scoring higher than Lebron's.

When you adjust for pace (per 100 possesseions), the scoring is about equal (36.9 to 35.7), but Jordan's is much higher when you consider DRTG because DRTG was at all-time lows back then but all-time highs now - the NBA allows a ridiculous 5 more points per 100 possessions now than in 2002..

So when you factor in the far tougher defensive format, Jordan's 25 ppg is far superior to Lebron's 28, which is fueled by pace and weak DRTG.

But most importantly - it's the WINNING - Jordan's 25 ppg led a lottery team to the 4 seed, while Lebron's 28 led a super-team to a losing record.. This is because Jordan's jumpshooting style has a lower hold-time, so chemistry was better - the 02' Wizards were a lottery team but MJ had them playing better than these super-team Lakers... :confusedshrug:... MJ knew how to win (organic) and he was starting to do that with the Wizards, while Lebron is a team-hopper, so he's lottery out West without his talent (AD).

[MadDog]

I love how Jordan stans pretend he was still a superstar before getting hurt in 2002 :oldlol:

Absolutely comical

Maybe, maybe not. But who do you guys consider "superstars" from 2002? Jordan averaged 25/6/5 on 42% from the field. Better all-around numbers than Vince Carter and was more efficient than both Carter and Iverson.

[3ba11]

Maybe, maybe not. But who do you guys consider "superstars" from 2002? Jordan averaged 25/6/5 on 42% from the field. Better all-around numbers than Vince Carter and was more efficient than both Carter and Iverson.


During the time that he had the lottery Wizards at the 4 seed, everyone said he was still among the best in the league.

Go back and check the tape.

[2much_knowledge]

24.5/6.1/5.4 on .418%.

Still lower across the board. Didn't even look at the advanced ones for that stretch because of course those will be way lower as well.

And #2 seed. With hamilton injured. Where the lakers at?

[2much_knowledge]

I love how Jordan stans pretend he was still a superstar before getting hurt in 2002 :oldlol:

Absolutely comical

In an era rich of quality guards, only prime T-mac finished the season with better numbers..... than a 39 yo jordan. Says alotttt

Take off the blinders

[MadDog]

During the time that he had the lottery Wizards at the 4 seed, everyone said he was still among the best in the league.

Go back and check the tape.

Its not about what I think though. I watched most of Jordan's career and KNOW he put up superstar production in 02. Still, the "superstar" label is arbitrary. I wanna know why these guys think Jordan wasn't one.

[zeerghit]

Yes, and that's why MJ had a chance to win it if he stayed healthy (if he had bron's roids) - he already dominated the Nets in the regular season and I don't see any 1-star team beating MJ in the playoffs.

However, those Wizards were lottery the prior year and big underdogs, whereas these Lakers were supposed to be a super-team.

So as usual Lebron's weak brand is underachieving the talent expectation - his entire career - he turned the preseason favorite to Finals underdog or loser for 7 straight years from 2010-2016.
your boy went full bold at age 23

[ShawkFactory]

You aren't accounting for league-wide DRTG or pace, which makes Jordan's scoring higher than Lebron's.

When you adjust for pace (per 100 possesseions), the scoring is about equal (36.9 to 35.7), but Jordan's is much higher when you consider DRTG because DRTG was at all-time lows back then but all-time highs now - the NBA allows a ridiculous 5 more points per 100 possessions now than in 2002..

So when you factor in the far tougher defensive format, Jordan's 25 ppg is far superior to Lebron's 28, which is fueled by pace and weak DRTG.

But most importantly - it's the WINNING - Jordan's 25 ppg led a lottery team to the 4 seed, while Lebron's 28 led a super-team to a losing record.. This is because Jordan's jumpshooting style has a lower hold-time, so chemistry was better - the 02' Wizards were a lottery team but MJ had them playing better than these super-team Lakers... :confusedshrug:... MJ knew how to win (organic) and he was starting to do that with the Wizards, while Lebron is a team-hopper, so he's lottery out West without his talent (AD).

You never do that when discussing numbers across eras. Why should I?

But team record through 'x' amount of games is what really matters? hmmm. Are we going to say that 2002 Jordan was better than 1987 Jordan? Because the Bulls were 22-23 at the break that year.

Having said all of that, the Wizards were 27-25 when Jordan got hurt.

[3ba11]

You never do that when discussing numbers across eras. Why should I?

But team record through 'x' amount of games is what really matters? hmmm. Are we going to say that 2002 Jordan was better than 1987 Jordan? Because the Bulls were 22-23 at the break that year.

Having said all of that, the Wizards were 27-25 when Jordan got hurt.





2002 Jordan had a 2nd scoring option in Rip Hamilton who was on the cusp of all-star... Jordan would make the ECF with that in 87'

And Jordan got hurt in Game 47 when they were 26-21.. Here's all the info:

http://nobodytouchesjordan.blogspot.com/2015/05/section-20-michael-jordans-wizards-years.html


Btw, it always makes sense to consider era when the 2 eras in question are the toughest defensive era and the weakest

[MadDog]

2002 Jordan had a 2nd scoring option in Rip Hamilton who was on the cusp of all-star... Jordan would make the ECF with that in 87'

And Jordan got hurt in Game 47 when they were 26-21.. Here's all the info:

http://nobodytouchesjordan.blogspot.com/2015/05/section-20-michael-jordans-wizards-years.html


Btw, it always makes sense to consider era when the 2 eras in question are the toughest defensive era and the weakest

From your article



Jordan's numbers were also improving as the season went on.

In his last 20 games up to the injury he averaged
27.5 - 6.4 - 5.2 - 1.3 - 0.5 on 44%

In his last 10 games up to the injury he averaged
29.7 - 6.6 - 6.1 - 1.2 - 0.3 on 47%

Definitely backs what I saw. Jordan was progressing as the year waned.

[3ba11]

From your article



Definitely backs what I saw. Jordan was progressing as the year waned.


Exactly, and people don't remember that the Wizards were 26-21 despite Rip Hamilton missing a ton of games - also from the article:

the Wizards were 15-1 in the last 16 games that both Jordan and Rip Hamilton played together up to and including the injury game.

So Jordan's knowledge of how to win (organic) was coming to the forefront and he was making Rip his "pippen".. if he was a year or 2 younger, those Wizards would've been in the Finals instead of the 04' Pistons

[ShawkFactory]

2002 Jordan had a 2nd scoring option in Rip Hamilton who was on the cusp of all-star... Jordan would make the ECF with that in 87'

And Jordan got hurt in Game 47 when they were 26-21.. Here's all the info:

http://nobodytouchesjordan.blogspot.com/2015/05/section-20-michael-jordans-wizards-years.html


Btw, it always makes sense to consider era when the 2 eras in question are the toughest defensive era and the weakest

I.E when it's convenient for you. Carry on.

[MadDog]

Exactly, and people don't remember that the Wizards were 26-21 despite Rip Hamilton missing a ton of games - also from the article:

the Wizards were 15-1 in the last 16 games that both Jordan and Rip Hamilton played together up to and including the injury game.

So Jordan's knowledge of how to win (organic) was coming to the forefront and he was making Rip his "pippen".. if he was a year or 2 younger, those Wizards would've been in the Finals instead of the 04' Pistons

Those numbers were better than I remember tbh. Both MJ's production and the Wizards success. 15-1 with Hamilton and 30/7/6 on 47% in his last 10? :applause: We can go on about Jordan's age, but he was doing this after being 3 years removed from the NBA. Damn son!

[TheMan]

No Phil, I quit

So much butthurt from this Bronsexual :oldlol:

[3ba11]

Will Lebron get to 26-21 in time to match MJ thru 47 games? (that's the game MJ got hurt)

The Lakers went on their current "tear" since they were 18-19 (thread title)

[ImKobe]

And MJ had zero HOFers on his team (AND the Wizards only won 19 games the year before, he surpassed this in less than half the season) and they fell apart as soon as he injured his knee at age 39. He's the GOAT for a reason.

[SouBeachTalents]

^ Both shook

[ELITEpower23]

MJ's campaign without Pippen was five years and zero playoff series wins. Can LeBron beat that without Wade? Oh wait, he already did :oldlol:

[3ba11]

MJ's campaign without Pippen was five years and zero playoff series wins. Can LeBron beat that without Wade? Oh wait, he already did :oldlol:


Jordan's seasons without Pippen are the age that EVERYONE loses - Durant, Lebron, Giannis and Curry didn't win any playoff series for their first few years either (they were infact lottery).

So it's a timing coincidence issue that you're weaponizing into a Pippen issue.

[AussieSteve]

It's called perimeter era "westbrooking" and it can't win like quick scoring, so Lebron is losing again with a super-team, while MJ was winning with the lottery Wizards

Lakers are 16-12 with Bron this season. So winning more than 02 Jordan also. Care to correct OP?

Something like "'22 LeBron has better stats and is winning more than '02 Jordan" should suffice.

[Johnny32]

Jordan's seasons without Pippen are the age that EVERYONE loses - Durant, Lebron, Giannis and Curry didn't win any playoff series for their first few years either (they were infact lottery).

So it's a timing coincidence issue that you're weaponizing into a Pippen issue.

not everyone. lebron went to the finals at 23 with a team that had no business being there. mj lost in the 1st rd.

[ImKobe]

MJ's campaign without Pippen was five years and zero playoff series wins. Can LeBron beat that without Wade? Oh wait, he already did :oldlol:

If Pippen's so great, how does he go from winning the championship in '98 to losing in the 1st round with Hakeem & Barkley the next year?

[SATAN]

Pippen wasn't the same in Houston. Still pretty good but unsurprisingly his role was reduced on the offensive end and injuries were taking their toll. Weird question.

[3ba11]

doesn't look like Lebron is going to make it to Jordan's 26-21 thru 47 games... :eek:

despite having a super-team, while MJ had a lottery team

MJ is simply better at winning because his superior skills allowed better team offense and strategy... and defense.. and a tougher team mentally too

[3ba11]

:dancin:

officially inferior to MJ... And by a lot because Lebron is a year younger than 02' MJ, while also having a super-team compared to Jordan's lottery cast

[TheGoatest]

Pippen wasn't the same in Houston. Still pretty good but unsurprisingly his role was reduced on the offensive end and injuries were taking their toll. Weird question.

The Great Scott Pippen was all-defensive 1st team and had a .500 season in Houston without Jordan. Neither of these were accomplished by Jordan in any of his 5 seasons without The Great Scott Pippen.