Getting blown away despite 1st & 2nd option getting 30 each = bad strategy/brand of b

[3ba11]

Lebron and Westbrook lack elite jumpshooting skill, so the Lakers can't move the ball and were massively out-assisted (34-21).

So Lebron's beginner AAU ball-dominance, aka "westbrooking" means that he's bad at basketball compared to the goat standard of being able to produce while the team plays a winning brand (moves the ball),

Unlike ball movement which wears down defenses, ball-dominance lets the defense rest, so they have more capacity to go off offensively - the best defense is a good offense, a tenet of all competition, and Bron-ball simply loses the attrition battle.

[SouBeachTalents]

What do you guys think


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDvx80VdozM

Is this caller trolling or not?

[3ba11]

It's funny because Lebron and Westbrook play the exact same stat-padding way (ball-dominance, westbrooking), but only Westbrook gets knocked for it (double standard).

It's even funnier because Lebron is sitting there like a complete dumbass because he has no idea how to fix it... "b-b-but the ball needs to be in my hands!!!".. lololol.. What a pathetic ring-chasing, 4/10 fool.. skill-less compared to the goat standard.. AAU Westbrook skillset

Imagine the 2 biggest Westbrooker in history on the same team - they get blown away despite getting 30 each!!!!! That proves a shit brand of AAU basketball that needs super-teams and still mostly loses

[Ne 1]

So I guess the players and coaches who say it's defense are clueless as well? Boy you will go any length to push those narratives :facepalm

[3ba11]

So I guess the players and coaches who say it's defense are clueless as well?





Yes

Almost no one understands the way basketball works.. It's a battle of attrition with FINITE amounts of energy - increased efforts on one end take away from the other

So unlike ball movement which wears down defenses, ball-dominance lets the defense rest, so they have more capacity to go off offensively - the best defense is a good offense, a tenet of all competition, and Bron-ball simply loses the attrition battle.

[Ne 1]

Are you really this idiotic to think the loss has nothing to do with poor defense when they’re giving up 138 points? ����

[SouBeachTalents]

Yes

Almost no one understands the way basketball works.. It's a battle of attrition with FINITE amounts of energy - increased efforts on one end take away from the other

Unlike ball movement which wears down defenses, ball-dominance lets the defense rest, so they have more capacity to go off offensively - the best defense is a good offense, a tenet of all competition, and Bron-ball simply loses the attrition battle.
That's very true

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?487615-Prediction-people-will-be-saying-Oubre-gt-Klay-at-times-this-next-season

[nineiron]

It's funny because Lebron and Westbrook play the exact same stat-padding way (ball-dominance, westbrooking), but only Westbrook gets knocked for it (double standard).

It's even funnier because Lebron is sitting there like a complete dumbass because he has no idea how to fix it... "b-b-but the ball needs to be in my hands!!!".. lololol.. What a pathetic ring-chasing, 4/10 fool.. skill-less compared to the goat standard.. AAU Westbrook skillset

Imagine the 2 biggest Westbrooker in history on the same team - they get blown away despite getting 30 each!!!!! That proves a shit brand of AAU basketball that needs super-teams and still mostly loses


spot on

[3ba11]

Are you really this idiotic to think the loss has nothing to do with poor defense when they’re giving up 138 points? ����


That's the same excuse for the 14' Finals, 11' Finals, 09' ECF or 17' Finals

4 different opponents

The excuse cannot be bad defense every time... There's obviously something else going on.. read my posts about attrition battle to find out

[insight]

Yes

Almost no one understands the way basketball works.. It's a battle of attrition with FINITE amounts of energy - increased efforts on one end take away from the other

So unlike ball movement which wears down defenses, ball-dominance lets the defense rest, so they have more capacity to go off offensively - the best defense is a good offense, a tenet of all competition, and Bron-ball simply loses the attrition battle.

As one of those who really doesn't understand how basketball works, please explain how Lebron went to 8 consecutive NBA finals with such a flawed style of play?

I thought baskeball was simply scoring more points than your opponent at the end of the game and there are many ways to accomplish the goal. Who knew there was really only one way to win.

[Full Court]

So unlike ball movement which wears down defenses, ball-dominance lets the defense rest, so they have more capacity to go off offensively - the best defense is a good offense, a tenet of all competition, and Bron-ball simply loses the attrition battle.

I really don't see how anyone can argue with this. It's common sense and should be obvious to anyone who understands the game.

[3ba11]

As one of those who really doesn't understand how basketball works, please explain how Lebron went to 8 consecutive NBA finals with such a flawed style of play?

I thought baskeball was simply scoring more points than your opponent at the end of the game and there are many ways to accomplish the goal. Who knew there was really only one way to win.


When did the Finals streak begin?

It began after Lebron formed super-teams in a conference that 1-star teams were winning (Iverson, Dwight, Kidd twice).

Infact, the 00"s East is the only conference in history that was won by a bunch of 1-star teams, yet that's the conference that Lebron formed super-teams in (definition of stacking the deck).

People forget that 2010 Wade was #2 in the league in everything - PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP - he was the #2 player, so Lebron's collusion with him is like Kobe teaming up with Tmac or Magic teaming up with Bird... Unprecedented... Yet he went 2/4 including goat choke and record loss.. The record loss to the Spurs is the quintessential example of ball-dominance losing the attrition battle against ball movement

[Ne 1]

That's the same excuse for the 14' Finals, 11' Finals, 09' ECF or 17' Finals

4 different opponents

The excuse cannot be bad defense every time... There's obviously something else going on.. read my posts about attrition battle to find out

You're trying to sound like an intellectual but you’re just over complicating it honestly. Attrition battle? Seriously? It’s not rocket science my guy. Did you actually watch the game? The Lakers defense just wasn't good. You had multiple instances where guys weren't getting back, they had 14 turnovers that translated to 21 points off turnovers, you're bringing up playoff situations where teams won who were known to not be great defensively, we're talking about one game. They didn't do what they needed to do on both ends of the floor, its really that simple. Also, here’s the kicker. The piss poor bench they have due to having 3 max players and paying 12 other guys pennies to be on the team.

Their defense was poor. When your defensive rating in a game as a team is that bad, that’s probably the issue. And they're actually haven’t even been horrible on the season defenseively, but they had a bad game on both ends of the floor. You’re just over analyzing here with your theory.

[1987_Lakers]

Can you imagine 3ball as a head coach? Dude would get towels thrown in his face on the daily.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_COHYa57ZLg

[RRR3]

Can you imagine 3ball as a head coach? Dude would get towels thrown in his face on the daily.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_COHYa57ZLg
He would get his ass kicked.

[3ba11]

You're trying to sound like an intellectual but you’re just over complicating it honestly. Attrition battle? Seriously? It’s not rocket science my guy. Did you actually watch the game? The Lakers defense just wasn't good. You had multiple instances where guys weren't getting back, they had 14 turnovers that translated to 21 points off turnovers, you're bringing up playoff situations where teams won who were known to not be great defensively, we're talking about one game. They didn't do what they needed to do on both ends of the floor, its really that simple. Also, here’s the kicker. The piss poor bench they have due to having 3 max players and paying 12 other guys pennies to be on the team.

Their defense was poor. When your defensive rating in a game as a team is that bad, that’s probably the issue. And they're actually haven’t even been horrible on the season defenseively, but they had a bad game on both ends of the floor. You’re just over analyzing here with your theory.


What if the opponent's offense was weakened so the Lakers didn't have to play as good defense?...

Wouldn't that help?..

Unfortunately, ball-dominance lets the defense rest, so they have more capacity to go off offensively (requiring better defense), while ball movement wears out teams and wins the attrition battle (requiring less defense)... Bball 101

Again, it's a battle of attrition with FINITE amounts of energy - increased efforts on one end take away from the other

So unlike ball movement which wears down defenses, ball-dominance lets the defense rest, so they have more capacity to go off offensively - the best defense is a good offense, a tenet of all competition, and Bron-ball simply loses the attrition battle.

[1987_Lakers]

Chris Paul himself said that the only way to beat that dominant KD-Curry Warriors team was to play ISO ball instead of ball movement.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udEO2yiulMo&t

[SouBeachTalents]

Chris Paul himself said that the only way to beat that dominant KD-Curry Warriors team was to play ISO ball instead of ball movement.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udEO2yiulMo&t
Damn, another L for 3baLL

[3ba11]

Chris Paul himself said that the only way to beat that dominant KD-Curry Warriors team was to play ISO ball instead of ball movement.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udEO2yiulMo&t


Interesting coming from a guy who NEVER BEAT THOSE WARRIORS


:yaohappy:

[1987_Lakers]

Interesting coming from a guy who NEVER BEAT THOSE WARRIORS


:yaohappy:

Didn't ball-dominant LeBron beat probably the greatest ball-movement team in NBA history in 2016?

:yaohappy:

[1987_Lakers]

In short, CP3 in the clip explains that when he was with the Clippers moving the ball against the Warriors didn't work because Golden State's defense was always switching because of their versatility. With the Rockets they ran a very different system, more ISO ball and their defense could switch up everything, those two factors were a reason why the Rockets were such a great matchup for the Warriors.

[3ba11]

Didn't ball-dominant LeBron beat probably the greatest ball-movement team in NBA history in 2016?

:yaohappy:


Lebron's ball-dominance yields 2-to-1 Finals underdogs regardless of cast - his super-teams are expected to win only 1 of 3 times - so you're bragging about Lebron barely meeting his own shitty expectation.

And think about how much help was needed to barely meet the expectation of winning 1 in 3 Finals - his sidekick had to outplay the league MVP (the most help possible) and be an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention, so Lebron didn't have to defeat maximum defensive attention/burden (no carry-job).

Remember that Lebron hand-picked the on-paper talent favorite (preseason favorite) from 2011-2016, but his brand of ball yields Finals underdogs regardless of cast, so they fell to underdog or loser by the Finals every year (except the Ray Allen miracle).

[1987_Lakers]

Lebron's ball-dominance yields 2-to-1 Finals underdogs regardless of cast - his super-teams are expected to win only 1 of 3 times - so you're bragging about Lebron barely meeting his own shitty expectation.

And think about how much help was needed to barely meet the expectation of winning 1 in 3 Finals - his sidekick had to outplay the league MVP (the most help possible) and be an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention, so Lebron didn't have to defeat maximum defensive attention/burden (no carry-job).

Well yea, of course he was an underdog in lots of Finals, he was going up against a historic Golden State team 4 years in a row, an OKC team with 3 future MVPs and a dynasty Spurs team.

MJ on the other hand was going up against a past prime showtime Lakers team in the Finals, career chokers in Malone-Stockton, and a Sonics team that got eliminated by a 42 win team in '94.

:yaohappy:

Shit, they even took their biggest competition in the East in the Knicks to 7 games without MJ.

[3ba11]

Well yea, of course he was an underdog in lots of Finals, he was going up against a historic Golden State team 4 years in a row, an OKC team with 3 future MVPs and a dynasty Spurs team.





Lebron's ball-dominant brand of ball cedes favorite status to better brands as the year progresses

The historical record shows that Lebron hand-picked the on-paper talent favorite from 2011-2016 (preseason favorite), but his brand of ball yields Finals underdogs regardless of cast, so they fell to underdog or loser by the Finals every year (except the Ray Allen miracle).






MJ on the other hand was going up against a past prime showtime Lakers team in the Finals, career chokers in Malone-Stockton, and a Sonics team that got eliminated by a 42 win team in '94.





Magic was runner-up for MVP in 1991 and Worthy made his only All-NBA team - the 5-time champions were favorites in the media and public opinion over the 1st-timer one-man team Bulls.

Btw, the Bulls were a 2-star team that defeated several teams with more all-stars like the 93' Suns, 96' Sonics, 91' Lakers and 98' Jazz.

[Ne 1]

What if the opponent's offense was weakened so the Lakers didn't have to play as good defense?...

Wouldn't that help?..

Unfortunately, ball-dominance lets the defense rest, so they have more capacity to go off offensively (requiring better defense), while ball movement wears out teams and wins the attrition battle (requiring less defense)... Bball 101

Again, it's a battle of attrition with FINITE amounts of energy - increased efforts on one end take away from the other

So unlike ball movement which wears down defenses, ball-dominance lets the defense rest, so they have more capacity to go off offensively - the best defense is a good offense, a tenet of all competition, and Bron-ball simply loses the attrition battle.

I don’t get why you keep doing this. Way too much unnecessary, in-depth intellectual talk without actually understanding what you’re even saying yourself. Like where are you even getting at with your theory my guy? Honestly? Don't get me wrong, I do see what you're trying to say. The ball dominance between Russ and Bron are allowing teams to not have to produce so much energy on the defensive end, which works in the other teams favor when it comes to the offensive end, and hinders the Lakers defensively due to the efforts put out on the offensive end.

Now, please explain to me how that would affect the non "ball dominant" players that make up the rest of the Lakers roster? Based on your theory, they should be able to pick up any kind of slack on the defensive end since they're just sitting around on offense watching Russ and Bron do their thing. Thats where you're completely throwing me off with this “attrition battle” nonsense. Cause how could that possibly apply to anyone not named LeBron James or Russell Westbrook? Makes absolutely no sense to me.

[1987_Lakers]

Magic was runner-up for MVP in 1991 and Worthy made his only All-NBA team - the 5-time champions were favorites in the media and public opinion over the 1st-timer one-man team Bulls.

Btw, the Bulls were a 2-star team that defeated several teams with more all-stars like the 93' Suns, 96' Sonics, 91' Lakers and 98' Jazz.

Worthy played with a sprained ankle in '91, the Lakers by that point had lost lots of its core players in Kareem, Cooper, & Riley. Bulls were a 3 all-star team if you include Grant, we know MJ was holding him back because he immediately became in All-star in '94.

[3ba11]

I don’t get why you keep doing this. Way too much unnecessary, in-depth intellectual talk without actually understanding what you’re even saying yourself. Like where are you even getting at with your theory my guy? Honestly? Don't get me wrong, I do see what you're trying to say. The ball dominance between Russ and Bron are allowing teams to not have to produce so much energy on the defensive end, which works in the other teams favor when it comes to the offensive end, and hinders the Lakers defensively due to the efforts put out on the offensive end.

Now, please explain to me how that would affect the non "ball dominant" players that make up the rest of the Lakers roster? Based on your theory, they should be able to pick up any kind of slack on the defensive end since they're just sitting around on offense watching Russ and Bron do their thing. Thats where you're completely throwing me off with this “attrition battle” nonsense. Cause how could that possibly apply to anyone not named LeBron James or Russell Westbrook? Makes absolutely no sense to me.


Ball movement allows players to rest because they're just standing and moving the ball - only the defense is scrambling

This is a general example of how it works in general terms

[1987_Lakers]

Ball movement allows players to rest because they're just standing and moving the ball - only the defense is scrambling

This is a general example of how it works in general terms

Defense isn't scrambling as much if you are just switching, which lots of teams today do. Your analysis of the game is outdated, you have admitted you don't watch any games.

[Ne 1]

I mean come on bruh. I know I’m not hearing you say the Lakers lost last night because of the ball dominance of Bron and Russ? The 2 players who made up for more than half of the Lakers scoring? If so, please elaborate for me and make it make sense. Cause I honestly don’t get your logic behind this.

[nineiron]

Chris Paul himself said that the only way to beat that dominant KD-Curry Warriors team was to play ISO ball instead of ball movement.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udEO2yiulMo&t

well if Chris Paul said it, then it must be true. since we all know how much of a winner Chris Paul is.

[1987_Lakers]

well if Chris Paul said it, then it must be true. since we all know how much of a winner Chris Paul is.

To be fair, they had a 3-2 lead against that Warriors team before he got injured. The Rockets were the only team that ever came close to beating that juggernaut of a team.

[Ne 1]

Defense isn't scrambling as much if you are just switching, which lots of teams today do. Your analysis of the game is outdated, you have admitted you don't watch any games.

I tried to explain that to him before about it being outdated with his mentality that “the point guard needs to be the primary ball handler/player maker and the forward needs to be the play finisher.”

[Ne 1]

Ball movement allows players to rest because they're just standing and moving the ball - only the defense is scrambling

This is a general example of how it works in general terms

Again, the only ball dominant players on the Lakers would be Bron and Russ. So would you please explain exactly how this is affecting the rest of the Lakers roster? Cause that’s where you’re losing me with your theory. They should have plenty of energy to step up on defense, right?

[Real Men Wear Green]

They lost because they gave up 138 points. Idiot OP hates James yet somehow doesn't think of the obvious criticism: he needs to defend better.

[3ba11]

Again, the only ball dominant players on the Lakers would be Bron and Russ. So would you please explain exactly how this is affecting the rest of the Lakers roster?





Lebron starts at forward but then becomes a 2nd point guard on the floor (2nd player with a point guard hold-time).. Lebron's 2-point guard lineups give teammates less hold-time and assists than they get in traditional 1 point guard lineups, so the TEAM has low assists and a brand that usually loses on the championship level regardless of cast.

Lebron's frontcourt ball-dominance actually needs more playmaking help than any other ball-handler, aka Kyrie, Westbrook, Rondo, Wade, IT, etc - ELITE playmakers

[Spurs m8]

Lebron and Westbrook lack elite jumpshooting skill, so the Lakers can't move the ball and were massively out-assisted (34-21).

So Lebron's beginner AAU ball-dominance, aka "westbrooking" means that he's bad at basketball compared to the goat standard of being able to produce while the team plays a winning brand (moves the ball),

Unlike ball movement which wears down defenses, ball-dominance lets the defense rest, so they have more capacity to go off offensively - the best defense is a good offense, a tenet of all competition, and Bron-ball simply loses the attrition battle.

High IQ posting...as usual

[TheCorporation]

What do you guys think


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDvx80VdozM

Is this caller trolling or not?

Pretentious guy with an ego. Semi trolling.

[tpols]

Attrition battle? Seriously? It’s not rocket science my guy.


Wait you don't think attrition exists in competition?

:biggums:

Its obvious common sense that players all have a certain amount of endurance. Lets say you had to do 100 wind sprints... you'd be gassed half way through. A team that moves the ball to score ~ like the old spurs, old mavs, and warriors makes the defense WORK harder.

Have you ever played a pickup game where there's one really talented dribbler / player just controlling all the action and the guy youre guarding you hardly have to expend any effort on because he's not moving much and rarely has the ball? Its much easier to be FRESH for offense when you don't have to extend yourself on defense. Sure the guy guarding the star dribbler will get tired. But that's just 1 guy out of 5. The other 4 will be fresh to go off.

Have you ever noticed that making jumpers when you're winded makes it tougher to make them? Fatigue exists my guy. Don't know how you can deny that concept. Ball movement offenses force all 5 guys to hardcore chase and defend. Which will leave the team gassed after a while. That's why LeBron teams start off competitive but by the end are getting blown out.

[Ne 1]

Lebron starts at forward but then becomes a 2nd point guard on the floor (2nd player with a point guard hold-time).. Lebron's 2-point guard lineups give teammates less hold-time and assists than they get in traditional 1 point guard lineups, so the TEAM has low assists and a brand that usually loses on the championship level regardless of cast.

Lebron's frontcourt ball-dominance actually needs more playmaking help than any other ball-handler, aka Kyrie, Westbrook, Rondo, Wade, IT, etc - ELITE playmakers

If there are only 2 players that are ball dominant on the Lakers roster, then its sounds like the rest of the team isnt expending any energy at all. To your guys point, why wouldnt they be able to hold their own on defense then? You’re saying a lot, yet not saying anything really substantial at all. You’re contradicting yourself.