Where's all the long/athletic wing defenders in the 80/90s?

[Johnny32]

By long let's say 6'6 or taller. is mj/pippen really the only ones?

[Mask the Embiid]

no no no...this cant be. surely he went up against a kawhi or hell even kd level defender. that was his height + athleticism or even taller..No way did he go his whole career with 6'3 guards as his main defenders...that would be like lebron's toughest match ups being 6'7 cade cunningham and 6'6 Alec burks as his main defenders....for his whole career.....why that would skew his dominance....he would look much much more dominant, if he got to go his whole career with a 2 inch or even 3 inch height advantage on....every....single....main defender..... he went up against.


I would even call that....maybe a weak era?


but mask but mask! Dan Marjerle was 6'6.



Devin Eubanks is 6'9 same as lebron....Would you call that equal...?


#weakera

[expansionera]

Brad Sellers and Reggie Miller

[Real Men Wear Green]

I guess Michael Cooper doesn't count. No such person as Bryon Russell. Apparently height was invented in 2013.

[Mask the Embiid]

I guess Michael Cooper doesn't count. No such person as Bryon Russell. Apparently height was invented in 2013.

Bryon russell was a marginal player... That would be like bragging that harden had to go up against royce oneal so he didnt play in a weak era


very weak argument....and jordan didnt win shit vs michael cooper...he didnt start winning til the micheal coopers of the world left the league


ya boy went up vs 6'3 shrooms every single year to pad his legacy...deal with it! #notmygoat

[Johnny32]

00/10s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

bowen
christie
kobe
artest
ak47
prince
battier
lebron
thabo
g. wallace
iggy
deng
pg13
butler
kawhi
giannis
dray
danny green
andre roberson
robert covington
klay
simmons

80/90s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

mj
rodney mccray
rodman
pippen
majerle
derrick mckey
eddie jones

[Real Men Wear Green]

You really are stupid enough to think there were no wing defenders between Cooper's retirement and 2010. How unfortunate. It's like some of you don't realize that Michael Jordan played against Kobe Bryant. Somehow in 1998 there were no athletes in the NBA between the height of 6'5 and 6'8. Ok. Carry on.

[Mask the Embiid]

You really are stupid enough to think there were no wing defenders between Cooper's retirement and 2010. How unfortunate. It's like some of you don't realize that Michael Jordan played against Kobe Bryant. Donegal in 1998 there were no chips athletes in the NBA between the height of 6'5 and 6'8. Ok. Carry on.

stop taking every word literal..you literal piece of Celtics trash, u know what we meant...he played in a weak...oompa loompa era #idontlikethelookofit :oldlol:



I accept my incoming ban....it was worth it

[Johnny32]

the difference in that list is eye opening. it really makes you wonder how jordan would have faired in the league if he was born just 10 years later. especially since longer defenders did give mj trouble on occasion. derrick mckey in the 98 ecf comes to mind. also reggie lewis blocking mj 4 times in one game linked below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi5BORi8Rck&t=1s&ab_channel=emmabar

[Johnny32]

You really are stupid enough to think there were no wing defenders between Cooper's retirement and 2010. How unfortunate. It's like some of you don't realize that Michael Jordan played against Kobe Bryant. Donegal in 1998 there were no chips athletes in the NBA between the height of 6'5 and 6'8. Ok. Carry on.

i listed all the wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all def team in the 80's until 98. kobe did not.

[Bronbron23]

By long let's say 6'6 or taller. is mj/pippen really the only ones?

Cooper, rodman, marjerle, mcmillan, spreewell, wilkens russell, mason, mcdaniels. Also faced a bunch as a 40 year old. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CV52IrBoj90 he's mj as a 40 year old giving metta the buisness.

I can't tell if your dumb or just trolling with this shit:facepalm

[Johnny32]

Cooper, rodman, marjerle, mcmillan, spreewell, wilkens russell, mason, mcdaniels. Also faced a bunch as a 40 year old. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CV52IrBoj90 he's mj as a 40 year old giving metta the buisness.

I can't tell if your dumb or just trolling with this shit:facepalm

cooper is 6'5. as is spreewell. wilkens, russell, mcdaniels never made an all def team. i considered listing mason. i did list majerle and rodman.

[Real Men Wear Green]

stop taking every word literal..you literal piece of Celtics trash, u know what we meant...he played in a weak...oompa loompa era #idontlikethelookofit :oldlol:



I accept my incoming ban....it was worth it

I'm not going to ban you for being an idiot. It's OK.

[Bronbron23]

the difference in that list is eye opening. it really makes you wonder how jordan would have faired in the league if he was born just 10 years later. especially since longer defenders did give mj trouble on occasion. derrick mckey in the 98 ecf comes to mind. also reggie lewis blocking mj 4 times in one game linked below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi5BORi8Rck&t=1s&ab_channel=emmabar

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CV52IrBoj90

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NbyM1MzHyHU

Or you could take one of the best wing defenders 10 years later who mj killed as a 40 year old and see what he thinks. I mean what does he know he only played against him :oldlol:

[Johnny32]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CV52IrBoj90

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NbyM1MzHyHU

Or you could take one of the best wing defenders 10 years later who mj killed as a 40 year old and see what he thinks. I mean what does he know he only played against him :oldlol:

2003 jordan was terribly inefficient. he had a 49 ts% for the season. but yes he got hot on occasion. jordan in the 80/90s had a physical advantage on pretty much a nightly basic. that clearly wouldn't be the case in the 00/10s.

[Johnny32]

it's kind of crazy there's only 7 players that qualify. mj himself and two of his teammates among them. the game has really changed over the years. not just the length of wing defenders but the strength has also changed drastically with most players today weight training. it was rare for non bigs to weight train back in the day. jordan actually kind of started that trend.

[Real Men Wear Green]

2003 jordan was terribly inefficient. he had a 49 ts% for the season. but yes he got hot on occasion. jordan in the 80/90s had a physical advantage on pretty much a nightly basic. that clearly wouldn't be the case in the 00/10s.

How many wings in the modern era can dunk from the free throw line? Jordan was still able to score on guys when he was pushing 40 and had been out of the league for years. But you think he wouldn't be effective if he was unleashed on the league at age 26? The only question is whether or not he would've developed as a 3 point shooter. But his athleticism would be elite in any era.

[Johnny32]

How many wings in the modern era can dunk from the free throw line? Jordan was still able to score on guys when he was pushing 40 and had been out of the league for years. But you think he wouldn't be effective if he was unleashed on the league at age 26? The only question is whether or not he would've developed as a 3 point shooter. But his athleticism would be elite in any era.

i didn't say he wouldn't be effective. he would be challenged physically on both ends of the court more than he was in the 80/90s and that isn't up for debate.

[Bronbron23]

2003 jordan was terribly inefficient. he had a 49 ts% for the season. but yes he got hot on occasion. jordan in the 80/90s had a physical advantage on pretty much a nightly basic. that clearly wouldn't be the case in the 00/10s.

Of course he was he was 40 dude. And exactly what team right now that's a contender has q squad with a bunch crazy athletic defenders that would give mj problems? Lakers? Nope clippers? Nope they could barely deal with luka slow ass. Suns? Nope jazz? Nope mavs? Nope warriors? Nope bucs? Greek is the only one but his foot speed is way to slow to gaurd mj on the perimeter. Heat? Butler but he's not crazy athletic so nope. Nets? Nope.

Where are all these crazy athletic defenders on contenders thats gonna give mj problems?

[Real Men Wear Green]

i didn't say he wouldn't be effective. he would be challenged physically on both ends of the court more than he was in the 80/90s and that isn't up for debate.

Would Dwyane Wade be less effective if he played today? Because Jordan was a better athlete than he was. Are there many better perimeter defenders than Marcus Smart? Because he's 6'3.

[Airupthere]

Jordan never had to play against the kgs, artest, paul pierce, vince, kobe, tmac. He would not have been able to score 50 in that era. He would not have averaged 20+ppg against those guys even at 38-40 years old.

[Bronbron23]

Would Dwyane Wade be less effective if he played today? Because Jordan was a better athlete than he was. Are there many better perimeter defenders than Marcus Smart? Because he's 6'3.

Exactly. Zach lavine is the only player that comes to mind with mj's one and 2 foot jumping ability. He has similar explosion and quickness to his hops. That said physically mj was way stronger and had way bigger hands than lavine. Lavine is one of the best players in the league just imagine what he would do if he was way stronger, smarter and had the ability to palm the ball like grapefruit.

[Johnny32]

Of course he was he was 40 dude.

jordan was 38 when he came back the second time. lebron will be 37 in a couple weeks and he probably has 15k more mins played than mj at that time. do you make excuses for him also?

[Johnny32]

Would Dwyane Wade be less effective if he played today? Because Jordan was a better athlete than he was. Are there many better perimeter defenders than Marcus Smart? Because he's 6'3.

we are looking for all defensive caliber wing defenders with the length to contest jordan's shot on the perimeter. those players didn't exist in the 80/90s. smart, while a good defender, doesn't qualify.

[Bronbron23]

jordan was 38 when he came back the second time. lebron will be 37 in a couple weeks and he probably has 15k more mins played than mj at that time. do you make excuses for him also?

I don't make excuses for either. It just is what it is dude. 38 is old to be playing in the nba. Why do you think 38-40 year olds don't dominate? It's why mj wasn't as good as a wizard and it's why when bron is 38 he'll be significantly worse than his prime self.

Your not actually arguing that the reason nobody dominates close to their 40's is because the game keeps evolving. When bron is 38 and he's scoring 19 points a game on 44%fg what will the reason be?

[HoopsNY]

Jordan never had to play against the kgs, artest, paul pierce, vince, kobe, tmac. He would not have been able to score 50 in that era. He would not have averaged 20+ppg against those guys even at 38-40 years old.

Sarcasm?

[Bronbron23]

Sarcasm?

Clearly

[3ba11]

It was a big man's game, so they got most of the credit for defense, whereas today's game is perimeter, so every screen-roll is scrutinized to see who can move their feet - so tons of perimeter defenders get credit.. we LOOK for those skills today but didn't in the 90's or 80's.

Guys like Stacey Augmon, Derrick McKey, Michael Cooper, Rodman, Eddie Jones, Drexler, Robert Horry, X-man, Grant Hill, Anthony Mason, Larry Nance, Kemp, and many more would get credit and accolades for being nimble defenders in today's game, but got little credit back in the big man's game of the 80's and 90"s

[Johnny32]

I don't make excuses for either.

lol k.

[Bronbron23]

lol k.

What excuses have i made for either player?

[3ba11]

.
The name is Richard Dumas:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GlaringCreepyAztecant.webp

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HyzIKvx9gmk&t=07m40s


Unfortunately, most possessions in the 80's and 90's didn't require perimeter defenders to be in the play because the ball was going to the post.. So perimeter players weren't viewed as impactful defenders like today's game, where anyone that can move their feet on a screen-roll gets all-defense consideration.

So many great perimeter athletes didn't get defensive recognition like Dumas, Stacey Augmon, Derrick McKey, Michael Cooper, Eddie Jones, Drexler, Robert Horry, X-man, Grant Hill, Anthony Mason, Larry Nance, Kemp, Rodman and many more - all these guys would be viewed as better defenders in today's game because they would be involved in every screen roll

[TheCorporation]

no no no...this cant be. surely he went up against a kawhi or hell even kd level defender. that was his height + athleticism or even taller..No way did he go his whole career with 6'3 guards as his main defenders...that would be like lebron's toughest match ups being 6'7 cade cunningham and 6'6 Alec burks as his main defenders....for his whole career.....why that would skew his dominance....he would look much much more dominant, if he got to go his whole career with a 2 inch or even 3 inch height advantage on....every....single....main defender..... he went up against.


I would even call that....maybe a weak era?


but mask but mask! Dan Marjerle was 6'6.



Devin Eubanks is 6'9 same as lebron....Would you call that equal...?


#weakera


https://i.postimg.cc/hjr0nDys/Lebron-James-Offseason-Workout-Shows-His-Dance-Moves.gifhttps://i.postimg.cc/hjr0nDys/Lebron-James-Offseason-Workout-Shows-His-Dance-Moves.gif

[Real Men Wear Green]

we are looking for all defensive caliber wing defenders with the length to contest jordan's shot on the perimeter. those players didn't exist in the 80/90s. smart, while a good defender, doesn't qualify.

And again Cooper and others have been removed from existence. Jordan scored on bigger defenders and in the modern era there are still plenty of teams that would be guarding Jordan with a guy like Smart. In fact if a team is lucky they have a defender of Smart's caliber to put on Jordan. Smart is a perennial all defensive team guy main ng it over all of the 6'6 athletes that you claim didn't exist in 1995.

[TheCorporation]

MJ recuited all the good perimeter defenders:

Pippen, Rodman, Harper

It's not a surprise MJ needed tons of defensive help in order to win. Everyone in existence knows about

NO PIP...

[TheCorporation]

Jae Crowder would be Ron Harper
Mikhail Bridges would be Scottie Pippen
Draymond Green would be Dennis Rodman

#90sBall

[Real Men Wear Green]

MJ recuited all the good perimeter defenders:

Pippen, Rodman, Harper

It's not a surprise MJ needed tons of defensive help in order to win. Everyone in existence knows about

NO PIP...

The Bulls drafted Pippen and traded for Rodman you human bullshit factory.

[TheCorporation]

The Bulls drafted Pippen and traded for Rodman you human bullshit factory.

Is that not recruiting you inept, perpetually failing poster?

[Xiao Yao You]

The Bulls drafted Pippen and traded for Rodman you human bullshit factory.

traded for Pippen on draft night actually

[Hey Yo]

I don't make excuses for either. It just is what it is dude. 38 is old to be playing in the nba. Why do you think 38-40 year olds don't dominate? It's why mj wasn't as good as a wizard and it's why when bron is 38 he'll be significantly worse than his prime self.

Your not actually arguing that the reason nobody dominates close to their 40's is because the game keeps evolving. When bron is 38 and he's scoring 19 points a game on 44%fg what will the reason be?

It took 19yrs for MJ to play 15 seasons due to quitting 2x. If there were no interruptions, he wouldn't have sniffed playing at age 38 and 39.

[Hey Yo]

.
The name is Richard Dumas:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GlaringCreepyAztecant.webp

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HyzIKvx9gmk&t=07m40s


Unfortunately, most possessions in the 80's and 90's didn't require perimeter defenders to be in the play because the ball was going to the post.. So perimeter players weren't viewed as impactful defenders like today's game, where anyone that can move their feet on a screen-roll gets all-defense consideration.

So many great perimeter athletes didn't get defensive recognition like Dumas, Stacey Augmon, Derrick McKey, Michael Cooper, Eddie Jones, Drexler, Robert Horry, X-man, Grant Hill, Anthony Mason, Larry Nance, Kemp, Rodman and many more - all these guys would be viewed as better defenders in today's game because they would be involved in every screen roll

What kind of recognition are your referring to? Something like being named to the All-Defensive team??

[Cyrus334]

traded for Pippen on draft night actually

Which had nothing to do with MJ is the point so its not recruiting.

Rodman is a different story.

[RogueBorg]

-86
6 Finals losses
2011
swept 3x in the Finals
missed playoffs 3x
2 bronze medals
easily most made fun of star in NBA history

[RogueBorg]

It took 19yrs for MJ to play 15 seasons due to quitting 2x. If there were no interruptions, he wouldn't have sniffed playing at age 38 and 39.

Can you prove that?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Is that not recruiting you inept, perpetually failing poster?
No Jerry Krause drafting Pippen is not recruitment by Jordan you ****ing idiot.

[Bronbron23]

MJ recuited all the good perimeter defenders:

Pippen, Rodman, Harper

It's not a surprise MJ needed tons of defensive help in order to win. Everyone in existence knows about

NO PIP...

Didn't have rod and harp for his first threepeat buddy.

[Bronbron23]

It took 19yrs for MJ to play 15 seasons due to quitting 2x. If there were no interruptions, he wouldn't have sniffed playing at age 38 and 39.

Maybe maybe not. Physically he wouldn't have been any different really. He lost alot of his basketball athleticism due to all the intense baseball training. His trainer has talked about this. There is a possibility he would of been burnt out mentally but we'll never truly know. Point is when your a baller the biggest factor is age. If mj and bron played 10 minutes their whole career they'd still be shells of themselves athletically speaking at 38-40. It's just common sense dude. I play with alot of really good players who played d1-3 ncaa or cis basketball in Canada. They didn't play anywhere near the amount of games as nba players but the ones older than 35 are all shells of their prime selves.

[3ba11]

What kind of recognition are your referring to? Something like being named to the All-Defensive team??


Today's perimeter defenders are involved in every play (high-screen roll format), so they're more associated with defense in people's minds and described in more detail as "rangy wing defenders" and things like that.

Otoh, perimeter defenders in previous eras weren't involved defensively because the ball went to the post on every play, so they weren't viewed as defenders and rarely got labeled the same way today's defenders do.

But guys in previous eras like Dumas, Drexler, Horry, Grant Hill, Eddie Jones or Kemp are very capable of defending screen rolls on every play if they had to, so they might be perceived entirely differently in today's game.

The 90's Bulls actually had that modern perimeter defensive focus, and Pippen's reputation benefited tremendously as a result despite having weaker team defenses and similar steals/blocks as someone like Drexler, for example, who played on a traditional post-centric team.

[hateraid]

You really are stupid enough to think there were no wing defenders between Cooper's retirement and 2010. How unfortunate. It's like some of you don't realize that Michael Jordan played against Kobe Bryant. Somehow in 1998 there were no athletes in the NBA between the height of 6'5 and 6'8. Ok. Carry on.

I think you missed a key element to the OP

[3ba11]

I think you missed a key element to the OP


Can't compare perceptions of defenders from different eras where the defensive focus is completely different between the eras

Tons of long, athletic wings from back then would be viewed as defenders because they would be defending perimeter offense more often instead of post offense that the 80's and 90's was based on.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I think you missed a key element to the OP

You're late to the party. This stupid topic has been beaten to death.

[Johnny32]

Can't compare perceptions of defenders from different eras where the defensive focus is completely different between the eras

Tons of long, athletic wings from back then would be viewed as defenders because they would be defending perimeter offense more often instead of post offense that the 80's and 90's was based on.

name em lol.

[Johnny32]

It took 19yrs for MJ to play 15 seasons due to quitting 2x. If there were no interruptions, he wouldn't have sniffed playing at age 38 and 39.

good point. jordan retired twice due to mental and physical exhaustion after only 3 straight trips to the finals.

“Physically I was exhausted, but mentally I was way past exhausted. When you try to do something repetitively, you lose some of the hunger, and some of the edge.”

[Johnny32]

.
The name is Richard Dumas:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GlaringCreepyAztecant.webp

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HyzIKvx9gmk&t=07m40s


Unfortunately, most possessions in the 80's and 90's didn't require perimeter defenders to be in the play because the ball was going to the post.. So perimeter players weren't viewed as impactful defenders like today's game, where anyone that can move their feet on a screen-roll gets all-defense consideration.

So many great perimeter athletes didn't get defensive recognition like Dumas, Stacey Augmon, Derrick McKey, Michael Cooper, Eddie Jones, Drexler, Robert Horry, X-man, Grant Hill, Anthony Mason, Larry Nance, Kemp, Rodman and many more - all these guys would be viewed as better defenders in today's game because they would be involved in every screen roll

lol dumas played like two two seasons and was a 200lb druggie. he was long but way too weak.

[3ba11]

good point. jordan retired twice due to mental and physical exhaustion after only 3 straight trips to the finals.

“Physically I was exhausted, but mentally I was way past exhausted. When you try to do something repetitively, you lose some of the hunger, and some of the edge.”


Sure that's exactly how Wade and Kobe felt after their failed 3-peats in 2011 and 2014 - but they trudged forward and that's what MJ would've done if he'd lost like they did

[3ba11]

lol dumas played like two two seasons and was a 200lb druggie. he was long but way too weak.


Dumas outplayed Pippen in the 93' Finals by getting 14' Kawhi stats as 4th option (16 on 57%) and holding Pippen (who took way more shots as 2nd option) to 45% true shooting

[Johnny32]

mckey was listed. he gave mj fits in the 98 ecf. jones was listed. so was rodman. horry, x, nance and kemp can't not defend 2s consistently.

[3ba11]

mckey was listed. he gave mj fits in the 98 ecf. jones was listed. so was rodman. horry, x, nance and kemp can't not defend 2s consistently.


Pippen couldn't defend 2's and never did.

Kemp, X, and Horry could defend them as well as he could.. maybe you didn't see X-man in the 92' ECSF playing phenomenal D

Especially Kemp, who would he'd be all-defense alongside Jordan to light that fire like he did Pippen

[Johnny32]

Dumas outplayed Pippen in the 93' Finals by getting 14' Kawhi stats as 4th option (16 on 57%) and holding Pippen (who took way more shots as 2nd option) to 45% true shooting

so this supposed two way beast was defending pippen...who you claim consistently underperformed in the postseason...instead of mj? interesting.

[Johnny32]

Pippen couldn't defend 2's and never did.

Kemp, X, and Horry could defend them as well as he could

Especially Kemp, who would he all-defense alongside Jordan to light that fire like he did Pippen

lol pippen literally defended mj every day in practice. read a book.

[Johnny32]

i also remember old pippen guarding kobe and magic who's a pg lol.

[Johnny32]

who shut down the pacers pg in 98. yeah it was pippen. kemp, horry, all those players you named are not wing defenders lol. and if you claim they are...prove it.

[Bawkish]

being "long" doesn't mean a good defender. In fact, long defenders who defended MJ got blown past easily because of his quick 1st step. Guys like Dumars, Glove, Starks or even Muggsy were smaller but much quicker to their feet and faster. Alvin Robertson, Dennis Johnson, Drexler, Stockton were much better defenders compared to the long ones

[Round Mound]

Pippen couldn't defend 2's and never did.

Kemp, X, and Horry could defend them as well as he could.. maybe you didn't see X-man in the 92' ECSF playing phenomenal D

Especially Kemp, who would he'd be all-defense alongside Jordan to light that fire like he did Pippen

Why did Jordan not aprove the Kemp for Pippen trade rumors? Jordan ALWAYS wanted Pippen on is team. Even in his all time pick up team. Jordan had the best defensive and playmaking SF in Pippen. And Pippen was also great in transition, fast breaks and as a dunker.

[TheGoatest]

00/10s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

bowen
christie
kobe
artest
ak47
prince
battier
lebron
thabo
g. wallace
iggy
deng
pg13
butler
kawhi
giannis
dray
danny green
andre roberson
robert covington
klay
simmons

80/90s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

mj
rodney mccray
rodman
pippen
majerle
derrick mckey
eddie jones

Damn, talk about stacking the deck compared to the other teams in the league. The funny thing is that Ron Harper, another Bulls player was probably not far off from making that list. :oldlol:

[insight]

i didn't say he wouldn't be effective. he would be challenged physically on both ends of the court more than he was in the 80/90s and that isn't up for debate.

This current ERA is a JOKE defensively which is why you have ROOKIES with 1 year of college experience come in a dominate offensively.
You can't even name one team that is able to defend the fast break in this era, they all take a foul instead of defending a fast break.
The best defenders in this era can't defend a 22 year old slow non athletic Luka they would have NO CHANCE defending Jordan.

[Johnny32]

being "long" doesn't mean a good defender. In fact, long defenders who defended MJ got blown past easily because of his quick 1st step. Guys like Dumars, Glove, Starks or even Muggsy were smaller but much quicker to their feet and faster. Alvin Robertson, Dennis Johnson, Drexler, Stockton were much better defenders compared to the long ones

second 3-peat jordan had lost his explosiveness. he could still get by you but he definitely lost a step or two and was primarily a midrange jump shooter. that's where the length of today's wings would really be a huge factor. i don't think 96-98 mj is a top 5 player in the current nba.

[Johnny32]

Damn, talk about stacking the deck compared to the other teams in the league. The funny thing is that Ron Harper, another Bulls player was probably not far off from making that list. :oldlol:

bulls were really ahead of their time defensively with harper, mj, and pip being about to switch 1-3 and pippen could defend some 4s too.

[insight]

second 3-peat jordan had lost his explosiveness. he could still get by you but he definitely lost a step or two and was primarily a midrange jump shooter. that's where the length of today's wings would really be a huge factor. i don't think 96-98 mj is a top 5 player in the current nba.

You have NO CLUE what you are talking about. Kobe Bryant patterned his fade away jumper from Jordan, it allowed them to shoot over ANY PLAYER regardless of height. Jordan CREATED multiple moves overs his career, outside of James Harden players are not creating new moves, they all do the same predictable movements.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj1Hw4xgC_Q

[Johnny32]

You have NO CLUE what you are talking about. Kobe Bryant patterned his fade away jumper from Jordan, it allowed them to shoot over ANY PLAYER regardless of height. Jordan CREATED multiple moves overs his career, outside of James Harden players are not creating new moves, they all do the same predictable movements.

you seem upset. i'm not attacking your hero i'm just stating facts. shooting over smaller/weaker defenders is one thing. shooting over players you can't bully for post position who are long enough to get a hand in your face is another.

[insight]

you seem upset. i'm not attacking your hero i'm just stating facts. shooting over smaller/weaker defenders is one thing. shooting over players you can't bully for post position who are long enough to get a hand in your face is another.

"i'm just stating facts."
You are creating your own set of facts to fit your narrative. The cold hard truth is Jordon was unstoppable regardless of the size of the defender. He would use his quickness and explosion against taller players, and his size against smaller defenders. The NBA players today by average are an inch shorter than NBA players during Jordan's Era, this myth about smaller players is just a myth.

[expansionera]

"i'm just stating facts."
You are creating your own set of facts to fit your narrative. The cold hard truth is Jordon was unstoppable regardless of the size of the defender. He would use his quickness and explosion against taller players, and his size against smaller defenders. The NBA players today by average are an inch shorter than NBA players during Jordan's Era, this myth about smaller players is just a myth.
Context matters, players in today’s era are shorter because less teams are playing stiffs at the 4 and 5 with many teams playing wing sized players at every position to close out games (Warriors, Clippers, Heat). It’s an ode to today’s more sophisticated style of play on both ends. The Bulls couldn’t guard Nicolas Batum and Draymond Green at 5 with Luc Longley.

However, Jahlil Okafor would assuredly be a top 10 player in the 90s due to his post scoring alone. Jordan played in a weak era wherein multiple expansion teams diluted the NBA talent pool and provided punching bags that performed poorly to strength the championship caliber teams that hoarded all of the talent.

[Johnny32]

"i'm just stating facts."
You are creating your own set of facts to fit your narrative. The cold hard truth is Jordon was unstoppable regardless of the size of the defender. He would use his quickness and explosion against taller players, and his size against smaller defenders. The NBA players today by average are an inch shorter than NBA players during Jordan's Era, this myth about smaller players is just a myth.

to quote myself.

second 3-peat jordan had lost his explosiveness. he could still get by you but he definitely lost a step or two and was primarily a midrange jump shooter. that's where the length of today's wings would really be a huge factor. i don't think 96-98 mj is a top 5 player in the current nba.

[FKAri]

Damn, talk about stacking the deck compared to the other teams in the league. The funny thing is that Ron Harper, another Bulls player was probably not far off from making that list. :oldlol:

MJ was such a deck stacking, bald, fraud!

[insight]

to quote myself.

second 3-peat jordan had lost his explosiveness. he could still get by you but he definitely lost a step or two and was primarily a midrange jump shooter. that's where the length of today's wings would really be a huge factor. i don't think 96-98 mj is a top 5 player in the current nba.

He is more explosive than any of top 20 leading scorers right now with the exception of Donavan Mitchell, Ja Morant and Ant Man and Zach.
The #4 scorer in the league is DeMar Derozen who is no where near the athlete Jordan was in 96-98 so your argument doesn't hold water.

[Johnny32]

He is more explosive than

lmao no.

[Baller789]

Context matters, players in today’s era are shorter because less teams are playing stiffs at the 4 and 5 with many teams playing wing sized players at every position to close out games (Warriors, Clippers, Heat). It’s an ode to today’s more sophisticated style of play on both ends. The Bulls couldn’t guard Nicolas Batum and Draymond Green at 5 with Luc Longley.

That's quite a disengenous point your making. About Luc Longley.

Anyone could then turn around on how Draymond could guard Hakeem in the 90s

Teams are just built differently back then. Jordan was an anomaly in the 90's, not the norm.

[Bronbron23]

He is more explosive than any of top 20 leading scorers right now with the exception of Donavan Mitchell, Ja Morant and Ant Man and Zach.
The #4 scorer in the league is DeMar Derozen who is no where near the athlete Jordan was in 96-98 so your argument doesn't hold water.

Pretty much this. These dummies doing their best at trolling but common sense says mj would absolutely destroy this era especially in his prime. Lavine is poor mans prime mj. He has Similar athleticism and skill level but mj was way smarter, stronger and had bigger hands. DeRozan is a poor mans mid thirties mj. Mj was pretty much better at everything and it's not real close.

Funny thing about this thread is it's more true for this era right now. Where exactly are all these tough super athletic long wing defenders right now on contending teams? Lakers have none, denver has none, mavs have none, blazers have none. warriors have 1 in wiggins and he's not a consistent great defender although he does show flashes. Phoenix has one in bridges. Heat have 1 in butler but in terms of speed and quickness mj blows him out the water. Bucs have 1 in Middleton but he's even less athletic than butler. Celtics have 1 in brown. Philly has one in matisse but he's young and shorter than mj. Clippers are the only team that has 2 long somewhat athletic defenders and kawhi can barely get on the floor.

Out of these few players there's 3 that made all defense. Matisse who's young and shorter than mj, butler who isn't quick enough to stay in front of mj and kawhi who can't stay healthy enough to be on the floor to even play against mj.

Great take op:facepalm

[Johnny32]

lavine is a career 38% shooter from the current 3pt line. jordan is around 29% at the current 3pt line.

[Baller789]

Context matters, players in today’s era are shorter because less teams are playing stiffs at the 4 and 5 with many teams playing wing sized players at every position to close out games (Warriors, Clippers, Heat). It’s an ode to today’s more sophisticated style of play on both ends. The Bulls couldn’t guard Nicolas Batum and Draymond Green at 5 with Luc Longley.

However, Jahlil Okafor would assuredly be a top 10 player in the 90s due to his post scoring alone. Jordan played in a weak era wherein multiple expansion teams diluted the NBA talent pool and provided punching bags that performed poorly to strength the championship caliber teams that hoarded all of the talent.


lavine is a career 38% shooter from the current 3pt line. jordan is around 29% at the current 3pt line.

Your friend said that context matters. I suggest you do the same.

[Johnny32]

there's also the fact that teams can play zone if they really want to stop someone from getting into the paint. defenders can also cheat off their man and just guard space and driving lanes to keep a player out of the paint. jordan would have to change his mindset of wanting to individually kill his opponent and be a much more willing passer to succeed in today's game. he'd also need to consistently shoot 3s at higher than 29% for his career from the current 3pt line.

[Bronbron23]

lavine is a career 38% shooter from the current 3pt line. jordan is around 29% at the current 3pt line.

Mj in the post season from the regular 3pt line was 35% 3pt.

I tried looking up lavines 3pt stats in the playoffs where it matters and he didn't have any:oldlol:

[expansionera]

That's quite a disengenous point your making. About Luc Longley.

Anyone could then turn around on how Draymond could guard Hakeem in the 90s

Teams are just built differently back then. Jordan was an anomaly in the 90's, not the norm.

And Oakley would foul out if he didn’t get gassed first trying to guard Giannis. Today’s role players have superior skill and are more versatile than role players of the past, there are no Greg Ostertags on Finals teams anymore.

Jordan and Pippen had the ONLY athletic wing duo of the 90s, when they added Rodman to their core they had the only frontcourt with two players that could move laterally. That’s not the case anymore.

[Baller789]

there's also the fact that teams can play zone if they really want to stop someone from getting into the paint. defenders can also cheat off their man and just guard space and driving lanes to keep a player out of the paint. jordan would have to change his mindset of wanting to individually kill his opponent and be a much more willing passer to succeed in today's game. he'd also need to consistently shoot 3s at higher than 29% for his career from the current 3pt line.

Dude, players rarely play zone D. And even if they do, this era has weak rim protection. :lol

But I partially agree on the 3s, but thats not mandatory, see Lebron, Giannis, Westbrook, etc.

The passing... Well he was an underrated passer, he got less assists because of the triangle.

[Hey Yo]

bulls were really ahead of their time defensively with harper, mj, and pip being about to switch 1-3 and pippen could defend some 4s too.

Harper would usually take the tougher guard assignment, yet it would be MJ getting the nod for All-defensive teams.

[Johnny32]

Dude, players rarely play zone D. And even if they do, this era has weak rim protection. :lol

But I partially agree on the 3s, but thats not mandatory, see Lebron, Giannis, Westbrook, etc.

The passing... Well he was an underrated passer, he got less assists because of the triangle.

i have a feeling you wouldn't know a zone unless the announcer told you, dude.

[Johnny32]

Jordan spoke passionately. If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did." He believed that allowing any defense, or a zone, enables teams to gang up on the star.

it appears jordan was so dependent on the rules catering to iso basketball and man to man perimeter defense he couldn't even fathom himself being the same player against more complex defensive schemes.

[Baller789]

And Oakley would foul out if he didn’t get gassed first trying to guard Giannis. Today’s role players have superior skill and are more versatile than role players of the past, there are no Greg Ostertags on Finals teams anymore.

Jordan and Pippen had the ONLY athletic wing duo of the 90s, when they added Rodman to their core they had the only frontcourt with two players that could move laterally. That’s not the case anymore.

Giannis wouldn't get to the rim as easily back in the day, no matter how athletic he is. The game was way different back then. We already basically saw that with young Shaq.

Of course there are no Greg Ostertags, the game is different. And the role players today are basically cookie cutter 3 in point shooters aka generic and boring.

[Baller789]

i have a feeling you wouldn't know a zone unless the announcer told you, dude.

And making an ad hominem makes you right?

[Bronbron23]

there's also the fact that teams can play zone if they really want to stop someone from getting into the paint. defenders can also cheat off their man and just guard space and driving lanes to keep a player out of the paint. jordan would have to change his mindset of wanting to individually kill his opponent and be a much more willing passer to succeed in today's game. he'd also need to consistently shoot 3s at higher than 29% for his career from the current 3pt line.

Teams almost never play zone dude. There's too many soft spots. The rare times it is used It's usually occasionally to give the offense a different look.

And teams played zones bro. Go back and watch how the Pistons and knicks defended mj. They often used zones agsinst mj.

[expansionera]

Giannis wouldn't get to the rim as easily back in the day, no matter how athletic he is. The game was way different back then. We already basically saw that with young Shaq.

Of course there are no Greg Ostertags, the game is different. And the role players today are basically cookie cutter 3 in point shooters aka generic and boring.
6’4 Charles Barkley was getting to the rim whenever he wanted but 6’11/7’ hyper athletic Giannis would struggle? Today’s role players can all guard 2-3 positions as a STANDARD, and hit the open three point shot. A player like that in the 90s is an all star, if he’s taller than 6’3 he’s all NBA

[Johnny32]

Teams almost never play zone dude. There's too many soft spots. The rare times it is used It's usually occasionally to give the offense a different look.

And teams played zones bro. Go back and watch how the Pistons and knicks defended mj. They often used zones agsinst mj.

zone was illegal. defenders had to stay within arms length of the man they're defending or double. you can post highlight clips pretending this rule didn't exist but it did and it was enforced regularly,

[Baller789]

6’4 Charles Barkley was getting to the rim whenever he wanted but 6’11/7’ hyper athletic Giannis would struggle? Today’s role players can all guard 2-3 positions as a STANDARD, and hit the open three point shot. A player like that in the 90s is an all star, if he’s taller than 6’3 he’s all NBA

Eh no, Barkley didn't "get to the rim at will". You sure you watched him play?

Did I say Giannis would struggle? I said he wouldn't get to the rim as easily as he does now no matter how athletic he is.

BTW I never said role players today are inferior. I said they were cookie cuttered and boring, which you prove further with your statement.

The cap is real.

[Johnny32]

lol it was easier to actually get to the paint in the 90s because of the rules. it was just more congested when you got there. those are two different things.

[Bronbron23]

zone was illegal. defenders had to stay within arms length of the man they're defending or double. you can post highlight clips pretending this rule didn't exist but it did and it was enforced regularly,

Arms lengths? Are your serious dude? Sonics, knicks and pistons all used zone routinely against mj.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7WpkXlrJxtw

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NLv2F33snCE&t=442s

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-qGWkiKvQ&t=86s

Again dude learn your history before you talk about stuff you don't know.

[Johnny32]

you're literally attempting to argue against the written rules of the lg with hand picked youtube highlights. that's like me finding a traveling video and saying no one has to dribble in the nba. embarrassing.

[Johnny32]

i watched 30 seconds of one video and it's mj getting doubled by sea. congratulations? the point is you couldn't cheat off your man to defend open space (driving lanes) before the drive even starts...you either had to be within arms length of the player you're defending or double the man with the ball.

[Bronbron23]

i watched 30 seconds of one video and it's mj getting doubled by sea. congratulations? the point is you couldn't cheat off your man to defend open space (driving lanes) before the drive even starts...you either had to be within arms length of the player you're defending or double the man with the ball.

Clearly u didn't watch then but your also clearly in denial

[insight]

Arms lengths? Are your serious dude? Sonics, knicks and pistons all used zone routinely against mj.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7WpkXlrJxtw

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NLv2F33snCE&t=442s

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-qGWkiKvQ&t=86s

Again dude learn your history before you talk about stuff you don't know.

These videos are not examples of zone defenses this is man defenses with help, switching and doubling. Where are they playing a 2-3, 1 3 1, 3 2, box and one? Zone defense is playing space not the man, you can easily tell by the rotations.

[Bronbron23]

you're literally attempting to argue against the written rules of the lg with hand picked youtube highlights. that's like me finding a traveling video and saying no one has to dribble in the nba. embarrassing.

That's rich coming from a guy trying to defend an era where the nba put in rules to make scoring easier and then they acknowledged after the fact that the rules had the effectit hoped it would. This is really the argument you wanna make? That it's harder to score in the easiest scoring era ever compared to the hardest scoring era?

Holy shit only on ish:facepalm

[Johnny32]

That's rich coming from a guy trying to defend an era where the nba put in rules to make scoring easier and then they acknowledged after the fact that the rules had the effectit hoped it would. This is really the argument you wanna make? That it's harder to score in the easiest scoring era ever compared to the hardest scoring era?

Holy shit only on ish:facepalm

you have no understanding on the history of nba rules you've already proven this. pretend elsewhere.

[Johnny32]

These videos are not examples of zone defenses this is man defenses with help, switching and doubling. Where are they playing a 2-3, 1 3 1, 3 2, box and one? Zone defense is playing space not the man, you can easily tell by the rotations.

i watched 30 seconds of mj getting doubled and stopped the video. he clearly doesn't understand what my argument was and what the rules were.

[Bronbron23]

These videos are not examples of zone defenses this is man defenses with help, switching and doubling. Where are they playing a 2-3, 1 3 1, 3 2, box and one? Zone defense is playing space not the man, you can easily tell by the rotations.

No there's clearly also zone and double and tripple teams. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A6_GgXXR4vA Here's another video highlighting one of the reasons why zones and double and Tripple teams wouldn't work on mj. He's too smart and has elite off ball movement. He's also one of the best ever at splitting defenders. He would penatrate the zone in this era easily especially with how the rules are.

Do you even know what the best way to break down a zone defense is? Penatration and movement. So your brilliant theory is that arguably the best player ever at at penatrating defenses playing on a team that had elite movement would have problems scoring against a zone in this era where you can't touch anyone?

Great take bud:facepalm

[Johnny32]

ftr, jordan himself disagrees with the poster above.

Jordan spoke passionately. If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did." He believed that allowing any defense, or a zone, enables teams to gang up on the star.

[Johnny32]

i would like to take a minute to laugh at kemp's clumsy awkward help defense in the clip previously posted. someone earlier in this thread claimed he'd be a wing defender in today's gm lol.

https://youtu.be/7WpkXlrJxtw?t=61

[3ba11]

i would like to take a minute to laugh at kemp's clumsy awkward help defense in the clip previously posted. someone earlier in this thread claimed he'd be a wing defender in today's gm lol.

https://youtu.be/7WpkXlrJxtw?t=61


Yes, let's take one clip and ignore the thousands of clips of Kemp having goat agility.

He was a superior talent to Pippen, which is why he destroyed Pippen in the Finals and also why Krause wanted to trade Pippen for him in 97'.

Ultimately, Jordan was changing the game to a perimeter game (most possessions on the perimeter) where a wing's defensive talent would be used and therefore noticed/highlighted.. So any decent defender or athlete was going to be perennial all-defense next to MJ, let alone a goat talent like Kemp that was superior to Pippen.

[Johnny32]

Yes, let's take one clip and ignore the thousands of clips of Kemp having goat agility.

He was a superior talent to Pippen, which is why he destroyed Pippen in the Finals and also why Krause wanted to trade Pippen for him in 97'.

Ultimately, Jordan was changing the game to a perimeter game (most possessions on the perimeter) where a wing's defensive talent would be used and therefore noticed/highlighted.. So any decent defender or athlete was going to be perennial all-defense next to MJ, let alone a goat talent like Kemp that was superior to Pippen.

lol this is the guy who said that about kemp...he's clearly embarrassed right now.

[3ba11]

lol this is the guy who said that about kemp...he's clearly embarrassed right now.


I didn't even watch the clip because I saw thousands of clips of Kemp's goat agility - so I know the kind of goat talent he was - i.e. a guard physique at 6'10" but in the big man era . He still made do and was good enough to nearly take FMVP from MJ.. Kemp/MJ would've been more dominant because it would've been more 1a/1b than 1st option, 2md option.

[insight]

No there's clearly also zone and double and tripple teams. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A6_GgXXR4vA Here's another video highlighting one of the reasons why zones and double and Tripple teams wouldn't work on mj. He's too smart and has elite off ball movement. He's also one of the best ever at splitting defenders. He would penatrate the zone in this era easily especially with how the rules are.

Do you even know what the best way to break down a zone defense is? Penatration and movement. So your brilliant theory is that arguably the best player ever at at penatrating defenses playing on a team that had elite movement would have problems scoring against a zone in this era where you can't touch anyone?

Great take bud:facepalm
I never said anything about Jordan's ability to beat zone defense. My point was the clips are not zone defense, it was not permitted in that era. The rule was essentially replaced by the defensive 3 second rule in today's era which is why zones are allowed. Each zone defense has a specific objective and weakness examples are 3-2 protects the perimeter, 2-3 guards the post area. All can be defeated with penatration, overloads and skip pases. Man to Man are attacked differently because they have differnt help principles You can double and tripple team out of man which was done all the time in a Jordan's era that does not make it zone defense.

[Johnny32]

I didn't even watch the clip because I saw thousands of clips of Kemp's goat agility - so I know the kind of goat talent he was - i.e. a guard physique at 6'10" but in the big man era . He still made do and was good enough to nearly take FMVP from MJ.. Kemp/MJ would've been more dominant because it would've been more 1a/1b than 1st option, 2md option.

oh you watched it. you saw his clumsy awkward looking lateral footwork and stopped the video.

[Bronbron23]

I never said anything about Jordan's ability to beat zone defense. My point was the clips are not zone defense, it was not permitted in that era. The rule was essentially replaced by the defensive 3 second rule in today's era which is why zones are allowed. Each zone defense has a specific objective and weakness examples are 3-2 protects the perimeter, 2-3 guards the post area. All can be defeated with penatration, overloads and skip pases. Man to Man are attacked differently because they have differnt help principles You can double and tripple team out of man which was done all the time in a Jordan's era that does not make it zone defense.

Right but what's the point if the argument when teams barely play zone for these very reasons. This idea that zone defense are gonna be used for one is just not true. Fir argument sakes even if it was what makes anyone think a zone would stop mj given his skill set and understanding if the game? It's just one of those troll things people like bron stans say like mj wouldn't be able to shoot with the regular 3pt line even though in the postseason from the regular 3pt line mj has better efficiency than bron does. It's just dumb dude.

[insight]

Right but what's the point if the argument when teams barely play zone for these very reasons. This idea that zone defense are gonna be used for one is just not true. Fir argument sakes even if it was what makes anyone think a zone would stop mj given his skill set and understanding if the game? It's just one of those troll things people like bron stans say like mj wouldn't be able to shoot with the regular 3pt line even though in the postseason from the regular 3pt line mj has better efficiency than bron does. It's just dumb dude.

It is pretty simple. Jordan was unstoppable in his era, we can only speculate how effective he would be in this era but in my opinion MJ would average 40+ points a game due to the rules changes that favor the offense. Vince Carter who played in Jordan's era and played in the current era believes the same, only delusional stans claim otherwise.

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/vince-carter-explains-the-main-difference-in-the-nba-now-and-when-he-joined-the-league-back-in-1998/

[Bronbron23]

It is pretty simple. Jordan was unstoppable in his era, we can only speculate how effective he would be in this era but in my opinion MJ would average 40+ points a game due to the rules changes that favor the offense. Vince Carter who played in Jordan's era and played in the current era believes the same, only delusional stans claim otherwise.

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/vince-carter-explains-the-main-difference-in-the-nba-now-and-when-he-joined-the-league-back-in-1998/

Yeah i think he could average 40 but i don't think he would if he was playing in a system with lots of on qnd off ball movement. In a ball dominant roll he definitely could but i don't think he wins that way. I think mj scores about 33-35 pts a game in this era

[Johnny32]

It is pretty simple. Jordan was unstoppable in his era, we can only speculate how effective he would be in this era but in my opinion MJ would average 40+ points a game due to the rules changes that favor the offense. Vince Carter who played in Jordan's era and played in the current era believes the same, only delusional stans claim otherwise.

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/vince-carter-explains-the-main-difference-in-the-nba-now-and-when-he-joined-the-league-back-in-1998/

your opinion is absurd. mj would average more assists and less points.

[Johnny32]

vince also ask mj for an autograph during a game so yeah.

[Bronbron23]

your opinion is absurd. mj would average more assists and less points.

It's absurd that one of the greatest scorers ever would score less in the easiest scoring era ever? Interesting take

[Johnny32]

It's absurd that one of the greatest scorers ever would score less in the easiest scoring era ever? Interesting take

this isn't the 90s. teams aren't forced to play strictly man or double. there's also far more offensive talent in today's lg. jordan isn't going to win chucking 30 midrange 2's per game. no coach on a contending team would even allow it.

[Bronbron23]

this isn't the 90s. teams aren't forced to play strictly man or double. there's also far more offensive talent in today's lg. jordan isn't going to win chucking 30 midrange 2's per game. no coach on a contending team would even allow it.

30 mid range 2's? Wtf were u watching prime mj was getting to the rim as good as anyone. He also got to the line alot?

Dude do you even watch ball?

[Johnny32]

hurrr, jordone was getting to the line as good as anyone in an era where teams hands were tied on defense, durrr

[Axe]

hurrr, jordone was getting to the line as good as anyone in an era where teams hands were tied on defense, durrr
Kyuhh, you mean duh baldone? :ohwell:

[Johnny32]

Jordan spoke passionately. If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did." He believed that allowing any defense, or a zone, enables teams to gang up on the star.

at least jordan himself understands the game better than his boomer fanbase still living 30 years in the past.

[Axe]

'at least baldone himself understands duh game better than his boomer fanbase still living 30 years in duh past.'

Duhh

[Bronbron23]

hurrr, jordone was getting to the line as good as anyone in an era where teams hands were tied on defense, durrr

Wow do you know what kind of defensive era we're in right now? Damn talk about denial. I wonder what has more impact defensively? Not being able to play a zone that's barely used anyway or hand checking that's used every second of every possession?

[Johnny32]

Wow do you know what kind of defensive era we're in right now? Damn talk about denial. I wonder what has more impact defensively? Not being able to play a zone that's barely used anyway or hand checking that's used every second of every possession?

let's ask jordan.

Jordan spoke passionately. If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did." He believed that allowing any defense, or a zone, enables teams to gang up on the star.

LeROFL.

[insight]

let's ask jordan.

Jordan spoke passionately. If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did." He believed that allowing any defense, or a zone, enables teams to gang up on the star.

LeROFL.

Context matters, he was talking about zone defense WITHOUT DEFENSIVE 3 SECONDS. The 3 second rule basically replaced the illegal defense rule and accomplishes the same thing.

[Johnny32]

there's also the fact that teams can play zone if they really want to stop someone from getting into the paint. defenders can also cheat off their man and just guard space and driving lanes to keep a player out of the paint. jordan would have to change his mindset of wanting to individually kill his opponent and be a much more willing passer to succeed in today's game. he'd also need to consistently shoot 3s at higher than 29% for his career from the current 3pt line.

to pat myself on the back this is such a good post. go listen to the spurs or celtics talk about how they defended lebron. you'll hear them talk about showing multiple defenders in front of him. what they're talking about is guarding space so he sees no driving lanes. once again...defenses in the 90s were not allowed to defend like this because of the rules handicapping defensive schemes forced man defense or hard doubles. you had to commit to the double or guard your man. period. this fact combined with the offensive talent on today's teams means mj would have to involve his teammates more and shoot less. he would have to change his whole mentality of wanting to kill his opponent individually. he isn't outscoring today's great offensive teams by himself. there are no 54 points in the finals utah jazz anymore.

[Johnny32]

to pat myself on the back this is such a good post. go listen to the spurs or celtics talk about how they defended lebron. you'll hear them talk about showing multiple defenders in front of him. what they're talking about is guarding space so he sees no driving lanes. once again...defenses in the 90s were not allowed to defend like this because of the rules handicapping defensive schemes forced man defense or hard doubles. you had to commit to the double or guard your man. period. this fact combined with the offensive talent on today's teams means mj would have to involve his teammates more and shoot less. he would have to change his whole mentality of wanting to kill his opponent individually. he isn't outscoring today's great offensive teams by himself. there are no 54 points in the finals utah jazz anymore.

and this is exactly why mj would shoot less, score less, and create more. anyone who thinks he'd average 40 on a contending team is a clown. on a bad team, sure.

[Bronbron23]

let's ask jordan.

Jordan spoke passionately. If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did." He believed that allowing any defense, or a zone, enables teams to gang up on the star.

LeROFL.

But dude he played against zone defenses as a 40 year old and before the knee injury he was doing pretty good even as a shell of himself. Before the knee injury he was averaging 25 or 26 points a game. This was in the 2000's where way more physicality wad permitted also.

So let me get this straight your brilliant theory is a prime mj put in the easiest scoring era ever against easier zones than he faced as a 40 year old in the hardest scoring era ever wouldn't do significantly better now than he did as a healthy 40 year old? This is what you truly believe?

[Bronbron23]

and this is exactly why mj would shoot less, score less, and create more. anyone who thinks he'd average 40 on a contesting team is a clown. on a bad team, sure.

Dude did you just comment on a comment that you commented on?

[Johnny32]

Context matters, he was talking about zone defense WITHOUT DEFENSIVE 3 SECONDS. The 3 second rule basically replaced the illegal defense rule and accomplishes the same thing.

changes absolutely nothing. a team can stop a player from driving by doing exactly what i've repeated multiple times. the only counter is 3pt shooting and a willing passer.

[Johnny32]

Dude did you just comment on a comment that you commented on?

are you still here hanging from my sack? you can leave now. i've found a much more knowledgeable poster to have a discussion with...myself.

[Axe]

Dude did you just comment on a comment that you commented on?
:roll:

[Bronbron23]

are you still here hanging from my sack? you can leave now. i've found a much more knowledgeable poster to have a discussion with...myself.

Nah your hanging on your own sack. I've never seen a guy comment on a comment they commented on.

Next time have those conversations in your head buddy. It will make you look less crazy:oldlol:

[Johnny32]

Nah your hanging on your own sack.

hurrr, good one, bruh

[Bronbron23]

:roll:

Wtf dude have you ever seen that shit on here? I've seen alot of hilarious shit but they might take the cake.

[Bronbron23]

hurrr, good one, bruh

Are you talking to me or yourself? I don't even know anymore:roll:

[Axe]

Wtf dude have you ever seen that shit on here? I've seen alot of hilarious shit but they might take the cake.
I'll just say he reminds me of 3ball that way lol

[Johnny32]

bronbron23 posted...plz look at me, plz

this clown is so obsessed with me he first copied my topic and made his own. and now he's like jealous i quoted myself and was ignoring him. so weird.

[Axe]

this clown is so obsessed with me he first copy my topic and made his own. and now he's like jealous i quoted myself and was ignoring him. so weird.
It seems you've ingested too much of your prescripted adderalls. Take it easy there, young fella. :(

[Johnny32]

who's the random tard trying to ride shotgun?

[Axe]

You mean 'duh'? :ohwell:

[Bronbron23]

who's the random tard trying to ride shotgun?

Ahhh that would be yourself. Remember? You were just talking to him :roll:

[Johnny32]

plz acknowledged me, plz

nah. think the best thing i can do for you health wise is...LeIGNORED.

[3ba11]

oh you watched it. you saw his clumsy awkward looking lateral footwork and stopped the video.


Better defense than 97% of SG's in the league:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-08-2021/jyOekx.gif


1996 Finals

KEMP...., 23/10 on 53%.. legit 1st option but barely tapped his potential
PIPPEN... 16/8. on 34%.. wasn't a 2nd option without MJ and maxed his potential


So Kemp clamped Pippen, while popping off on offense against Pippen and Rodman...

Krause drafted Pippen but wanted desperately to get rid of Pippen for Kemp, but Seattle refused..

[Axe]

Better defense than 97% of SG's in the league:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-08-2021/jyOekx.gif


1996 Finals

KEMP...., 23/10 on 53%.. legit 1st option but barely tapped his potential
PIPPEN... 16/8. on 34%.. wasn't a 2nd option without MJ and maxed his potential


Krause drafted Pippen but wanted desperately to get rid of Pippen for Kemp, but Seattle refused..
Oh, this must be duh random tard dat op was talking about. :ohwell:

[Johnny32]

Better defense than 97% of SG's in the league:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-08-2021/jyOekx.gif


1996 Finals

KEMP...., 23/10 on 53%.. legit 1st option but barely tapped his potential
PIPPEN... 16/8. on 34%.. wasn't a 2nd option without MJ and maxed his potential


So Kemp clamped Pippen, while popping off on offense against Pippen and Rodman...

Krause drafted Pippen but wanted desperately to get rid of Pippen for Kemp, but Seattle refused..

lol he almost fell down from a below average crossover. this was second 3-peat jordan too who wouldn't even be a top 5 player currently.

[insight]

changes absolutely nothing. a team can stop a player from driving by doing exactly what i've repeated multiple times. the only counter is 3pt shooting and a willing passer.
If that was the case Durant, Giannis, Booker and Steph would lead the league in assist, not Chris Paul, Trae Young and Harden. It's a bogus premiss because there is no evidence that supports what your saying in todays game. The modern NBA relies on different spacing, the driving lanes are more open than they have ever been. Micheal would get to the basket anytime he wanted to just like Ja Morrant and Trae Young and DeRozen do on a nightly basis.

[Johnny32]

lol mj's left was looking kind of weak in that clip. very awkward looking. thx for posting it.

[Johnny32]

If that was the case Durant, Giannis, Booker and Steph would lead the league in assist, not Chris Paul, Trae Young and Harden. It's a bogus premiss because there is no evidence that supports what your saying in todays game. The modern NBA relies on different spacing, the driving lanes are more open than they have ever been. Micheal would get to the basket anytime he wanted to just like Ja Morrant and Trae Young and DeRozen do on a nightly basis.

all better 3pt shooters and much more willing passers lol jfc.

[Johnny32]

and why is derozan always brought up like he's done anything lol. his best season was 2017.

reg season...27 ppg on 47%
postseason when teams have time to game plan for their opponent...22 ppg on 43%

[insight]

all better 3pt shooters and much more willing passers lol jfc.

Giannis, Ja Morrant and DeRozen are not better 3 point shooters than MJ. You making stuff up, Russell Westbrook dominated this era and he is not even a good shooter.
Like I said your premiss is bogus, there is no EVIDENCE to support what you are spewing.
All this so called better players were all shooting poorly when the refs swallowed thier whistles at the beginning of the season. The officials had to start calling more fouls because the scoring averages were plummeting. Go look up the stats.

[Johnny32]

Giannis, Ja Morrant and DeRozen are not better 3 point shooters than MJ. You making stuff up, Russell Westbrook dominated this era and he is not even a good shooter.
Like I said your premiss is bogus, there is no EVIDENCE to support what you are spewing.
All this so called better players were all shooting poorly when the refs swallowed thier whistles at the beginning of the season. The officials had to start calling more fouls because the scoring averages were plummeting. Go look up the stats.

you had two different points in your post. nice try.

The modern NBA relies on different spacing, the driving lanes are more open than they have ever been. Micheal would get to the basket anytime he wanted to just like Ja Morrant and Trae Young and DeRozen do on a nightly basis.

[Axe]

Giannis, Ja Morrant and DeRozen are not better 3 point shooters than MJ. You making stuff up, Russell Westbrook dominated this era and he is not even a good shooter.
Like I said your premiss is bogus, there is no EVIDENCE to support what you are spewing.
All this so called better players were all shooting poorly when the refs swallowed thier whistles at the beginning of the season. The officials had to start calling more fouls because the scoring averages were plummeting. Go look up the stats.
Because his airness apparently wasn't shooting significantly from long-range? By this, i mean his shooting volumes beyond the arc.

[3ba11]

By long let's say 6'6 or taller. is mj/pippen really the only ones?


Long and athletic star wings in the 80's and 90's include Clyde Drexler, Eddie Jones, Reggie Lewis, Majerle, Penny Hardaway, Rodney McCray, Len Bias, Rodman, Grant Hill, Anthony Mason, Dominique, Bobby Jones, Woolridge, Gervin, McKey, Michael Cooper, Kobe Bryant, Doug Christie, Sean Elliot, Michael Finley, Garnett and many more.

Of course, most plays weren't on the perimeter back then (big man's game), so we never got to see 6'7" snipers like Dale Ellis, Reggie Miller, or Reggie Theus defend a high-screen role, and they also played before the days of awarding FMVP for holding a guy to 36 ppg (they played before today's era where perimeter defense is PROPERLY VALUED) - Reggie held MJ to 36 or less all the time, so he would get tons of credit as a great defender in today's game and be the quintessential "3-and-D" star.

[Johnny32]

jordan is a career 29% shooter from the current line, ftr. only derozan is worse of the three. and he falls off a cliff efficiency wise in the postseason.

[Johnny32]

Long and athletic star wings in the 80's and 90's include Clyde Drexler, Eddie Jones, Reggie Lewis, Majerle, Penny Hardaway, Rodney McCray, Len Bias, Rodman, Grant Hill, Anthony Mason, Dominique, Bobby Jones, Woolridge, Gervin, McKey, Michael Cooper, Kobe Bryant, Doug Christie, Sean Elliot, Michael Finley, Garnett and many more.

Of course, most plays weren't on the perimeter back then (big man's game), so we never got to see 6'7" snipers like Dale Ellis, Reggie Miller, or Reggie Theus defend a high-screen role, and they also played before the days of awarding FMVP for holding a guy to 36 ppg (they played before today's era where perimeter defense is PROPERLY VALUED) - Reggie held MJ to 36 or less all the time, so he would get tons of credit as a great defender in today's game and be the quintessential "3-and-D" star.

wtf is this. that was 150 posts ago. let's talk about that awkward left of mj's on that cross.

[Johnny32]

derozan also isn't getting to the basket at will lol.

[ELITEpower23]

00/10s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

bowen
christie
kobe
artest
ak47
prince
battier
lebron
thabo
g. wallace
iggy
deng
pg13
butler
kawhi
giannis
dray
danny green
andre roberson
robert covington
klay
simmons

80/90s wing defenders 6'6 or taller that made an all defensive team.

mj
rodney mccray
rodman
pippen
majerle
derrick mckey
eddie jones

Bang!!! Anyone have an answer?

[Johnny32]

Bang!!! Anyone have an answer?

they been desperately trying but it's getting really pathetic now. dude out here counting bobby jones who retired in like 85? and len bias who died before he even played an nba gm.

[3ba11]

jordan is a career 29% shooter from the current line, ftr. only derozan is worse of the three. and he falls off a cliff efficiency wise in the postseason.


Jordan took bailout threes for most of his career (end-of-shot-clock) and always shot well whenever his volume was above bailout volume.

Specifically, Jordan attempted less than 1.5 threes every year (bailout volume) except 90' and 93' when he shot 36% on 3 attempts.. It got better in the playoffs - he shot 39% on 4 attempts in the 93' Playoffs and 43% on 5 attempts in the 92' Finals.. That's better than Kawhi's run in 2019.... He also shot 35.1% on 2.1 attempts in the 85-93' Playoffs, which compares well to the best of that era, aka Bird shot the exact same in the 80-88' Playoffs (his prime).

So again, Jordan shot well anytime he shot above bailout volume.. Curry would shoot poorly as well if he purposefully limited himself to 1 desperation bailout per game.. You'll surely ask why Curry would ever do that, and one could ask the same thing about Jordan - yet Jordan did exactly that - he purposefully limited himself to 1 bailout per game, so his efficiency wasn't strong from distance.. But anytime he had higher volume and could get in rhythm, he shot well, and his goat form would be getting hot all the time in today's 3-point offenses that generate high volume and open threes for everyone (lots of "shrug" games for Jordan)..

He already became the goat 2-point jumpshooter so he would become all-time at 3-pointers too, especially with his goat form and elevation.

[Johnny32]

here's a link of jordan embarrassing himself in a 3pt contest shooting "bailout 3s"...i believe this is still the worst performance in the history of the 3pt shooting contest. embarrassing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsjukb2NttM&ab_channel=ctsa028

[3ba11]

here's a link of jordan embarrassing himself in a 3pt contest shooting "bailout 3s"...i believe this is still the worst performance in the history of the 3pt shooting contest. embarrassing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsjukb2NttM&ab_channel=ctsa028


He only took 1 bailout/desperation three per game, but shot well anytime he took more than bailout volume - anytime he actually shot threes (not just bailouts), he shot well...

Curry would shoot sub-par as well if he limited himself to 1 bailout per game like MJ did

Jordan already the goat 2-point jumpshooter, so his goat form and elevation would become all-time at threes too.

[Bronbron23]

jordan is a career 29% shooter from the current line, ftr. only derozan is worse of the three. and he falls off a cliff efficiency wise in the postseason.

So now we're straight lying? Mj shot 35% from the regular line in the post season.

What a liar:facepalm

[Johnny32]

guy said jordan missed his first two but now he's heating up. mj proceeded to make 3 of his next 21 lmao.

[insight]

jordan is a career 29% shooter from the current line, ftr. only derozan is worse of the three. and he falls off a cliff efficiency wise in the postseason.
Even if he was only a 29% shooter from three, which I don't believe.
Do you really believe Ja and Giannis are better shooters from 3 point range than Micheal Jordan? You have to know the context of the statistics, there is a reason why teams intentionaly let Ja and Giannis take uncontested 3s, defenses were never leaving Jordan wide open.

[Baller789]

Even if he was only a 29% shooter from three, which I don't believe.
Do you really believe Ja and Giannis are better shooters from 3 point range than Micheal Jordan? You have to know the context of the statistics, there is a reason why teams intentionaly let Ja and Giannis take uncontested 3s, defenses were never leaving Jordan wide open.

Yeah, if Jordan was that bad a 3point shooter, wouldn't it made sense to sag off him and defend the drive every single play like they did with Lebron?

[Bronbron23]

Even if he was only a 29% shooter from three, which I don't believe.
Do you really believe Ja and Giannis are better shooters from 3 point range than Micheal Jordan? You have to know the context of the statistics, there is a reason why teams intentionaly let Ja and Giannis take uncontested 3s, defenses were never leaving Jordan wide open.

He did but you have to put in context. Teams weren't shooting many threes and mj didn't shoot many at all. Alot of his threes were last second forced long ones.

And mj didn't fall off a cliff in the postseason. He actually got better. He averages 35% 3pt from the regular line in the post season and that's with me taking out the first 2 playoff seasons because they were outliers. His rookie season it was 12.5% and his second season was 100%. If you add these 2 sessons it bumps it up past 36%.

Johnny boy is clearly misinformed or a liar

[Johnny32]

Even if he was only a 29% shooter from three, which I don't believe.
Do you really believe Ja and Giannis are better shooters from 3 point range than Micheal Jordan? You have to know the context of the statistics, there is a reason why teams intentionaly let Ja and Giannis take uncontested 3s, defenses were never leaving Jordan wide open.

he was...it doesn't matter if you're in denial about it or not.

[outofstomach]

why are you guys arguing with this reddit-tier troll? :lol

[Bronbron23]

he was...it doesn't matter if you're in denial about it or not.

Says the liar who said mj's 3pt efficiency fell off a cliff in the post season from the regular line when in actuality it a got significantly better.

[3ba11]

Curry would shoot poorly from three if he limited himself to 1 bailout per game like MJ did

Anytime MJ actually shot threes (not just bailouts), he shot well

He would shoot really well at today's higher volume of 6-10 attempts per game where he can in rhythm.. A lot of shrug games for MJ in today's game

[ShawkFactory]

Curry would shoot poorly from three if he limited himself to 1 bailout per game like MJ did

Anytime MJ actually shot threes (not just bailouts), he shot well

He would shoot really well at today's higher volume of 6-10 attempts per game where he can in rhythm.. A lot of shrug games for MJ in today's game

He’d shoot a higher percentage than MJ because he’s a better shooter. Probably not 45% though, you’re right.

[3ba11]

He’d shoot a higher percentage than MJ because he’s a better shooter. Probably not 45% though, you’re right.


The tracking stats show that 70% of Curry's threes are open and he shoots like trash when contested

Let me know if you need links to the tracking data that shows Curry shooting like garbage on bailouts

So again, Curry would shoot poorly from three if he limited himself to 1 bailout per game like MJ did

Ultimately, Jordan was a better 2-point jumpshooter than Curry and better overall in the clutch or on contested jumpers - and better form - so Jordan was a far superior shooter, which is why he was scoring champ on jumpers from 96-98'

[ShawkFactory]

The tracking stats show that 70% of Curry's threes are open and he shoots like trash when contested

Let me know if you need links to the tracking data that shows Curry shooting like garbage on bailouts

So again, Curry would shoot poorly from three if he limited himself to 1 bailout per game like MJ did

Ultimately, Jordan was a better 2-point jumpshooter than Curry and better overall in the clutch or on contested jumpers - and better form - so Jordan was a far superior shooter, which is why he was scoring champ on jumpers from 96-98'

Im agreeing with you that Curry would shoot worse if he took 1 contested 3 a game you weirdo.

But he’d shoot better than Jordan because he’s a flat-out better shooter.

[3ba11]

.

he’s a flat-out better shooter.





Not at contested jumpshooting or 2-point jumpshooting, where Jordan is far superior at both... The majority of good players are better than Curry at these things

Why hasn't Curry made a clutch shot? It's because he needs to be OPEN, while great 2-point jumpshooters like Booker, Kobe or Jordan don't

[ShawkFactory]

Not at contested jumpshooting or 2-point jumpshooting, where Jordan is far superior at both... The majority of good players are better than Curry at these things

Why hasn't Curry made a clutch shot? It's because he needs to be OPEN, while great 2-point jumpshooters like Booker, Kobe or Jordan don't

When you have to put parameters on it then you’re arguing for the inferior shooter.

[3ba11]

When you have to put parameters on it then you’re arguing for the inferior shooter.


Curry is inferior at 2-point jumpshooting and contested jumpshooting, so he's an inferior shooter to Jordan

[ShawkFactory]

Curry is inferior at 2-point jumpshooting and contested jumpshooting, so he's an inferior shooter to Jordan

:roll:

Derozan and Monta Ellis are better 2 point contested shooters too. Ditto like..everyone who can shoot a little bit who is taller than 6’5-6’6

But anyway..contested 2 point jump shooting separates itself from other forms by incorporating size, strength, athleticism, and footwork. Not one of those are shooting.

Going 27-30 away from the basket negates these things, thus allowing one to see who the actual superior shooter is.

This is why Steph is vastly superior at the free throw line too.

[3ba11]

:roll:

Derozan and Monta Ellis are better 2 point contested shooters too. Ditto like..everyone who can shoot a little bit who is taller than 6’5-6’6

But anyway..contested 2 point jump shooting separates itself from other forms by incorporating size, strength, athleticism, and footwork. Not one of those are shooting.

Going 27-30 away from the basket negates these things, thus allowing one to see who the actual superior shooter is.

This is why Steph is vastly superior at the free throw line too.


Good post.

However, if you look at all the goat athletes (Blake, Vince, Wilt, Lebron, MJ, Zion, Kemp, Dominique, etc) - only Jordan is a goat shooter on either 2-pointers or 3-pointers

So touch matters from mid-range, maybe even more so due to the contested nature and varying distances, while threes are more like FT's - basically memorizing a stroke.

[ShawkFactory]

Good post.

However, if you look at all the goat athletes (Blake, Vince, Wilt, Lebron, MJ, Zion, Kemp, Dominique, etc) - only Jordan is a goat shooter on either 2-pointers or 3-pointers

So touch matters from mid-range, maybe even more so due to the contested nature and varying distances, while threes are more like FT's - basically memorizing a stroke.

He’s not a GOAT 3 point shooter. I know you’ve posted that multiple times and insist on being refuted again. Just go to the last thread where this was discussed and you’ll see the responses

[3ba11]

He’s not a GOAT 3 point shooter. I know you’ve posted that multiple times and insist on being refuted again. Just go to the last thread where this was discussed and you’ll see the responses


I said 2-pointers or 3-pointers - you just misread it

Jordan is the only goat athlete that is also a goat shooter (2-pointers or 3-pointers)

[ShawkFactory]

I said 2-pointers or 3-pointers - you just misread it

Jordan is the only goat athlete that is also a goat shooter (2-pointers or 3-pointers)

Oh..

What does that have to do with him being a better shooter than Curry?

VC is also a career 37% 3 point shooter and has made the 4th most of all time.

[3ba11]

Oh..

What does that have to do with him being a better shooter than Curry?


You said that 2-pointers don't involve as much touch and involve other things like athleticism, height, etc..

So I was just pointing out that 2-pointers require incredible touch as well, since great athletes tend to not be great shooters of 2's or 3's.. so that means there's touch involved on 2's and maybe more touch due to the variable distances and greater defensive contest... Otoh, threes could be looked at as just memorizing a motion like FT's

[ShawkFactory]

You said that 2-pointers don't involve as much touch and involve other things like athleticism, height, etc..

So I was just pointing out that 2-pointers require incredible touch as well, since great athletes tend to not be great shooters of 2's or 3's.. so that means there's touch involved on 2's and maybe more touch due to the variable distances and greater defensive contest... Otoh, threes could be looked at as just memorizing a motion like FT's

I said what separates great 2 point shooting are those other things I mentioned. Given Currys superior shooting from the line and from deep we can reasonably conclude that if he also possessed those physical gifts of Jordan’s he would be better at shooting 2s also.

Yes..a 14 foot jumper generally requires less touch than a 25 footer. It’s closer to the basket and therefore an easier shot, physical gifts aside. This is why everyone in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 00s took those type of shots, and it’s also why a shot from farther is worth more points.

[Johnny32]

here's a link of jordan embarrassing himself in a 3pt contest shooting "bailout 3s"...i believe this is still the worst performance in the history of the 3pt shooting contest. embarrassing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsjukb2NttM&ab_channel=ctsa028

it was crazy watching mj miss 18 of his last 21 contested bailout 3s in this shooting contest.

[insight]

it was crazy watching mj miss 18 of his last 21 contested bailout 3s in this shooting contest.

Great clip, I forgot about how great of a 3 pointer shooter Greg Hodges was back then. The funny thing is that with great 3 point shooters like Hodges and Kerr on the Bulls, if the Bulls were down by three with time to take one shot 99% of the time Jordan would be taking the shot.
What is also great about the clip is it shows the greatest basketball player in the world putting himself out there taking on another challenge. The stars today are too afraid to compete outside of the specialty, Jordan was always down to compete even when he had nothing to prove.

[Johnny32]

Great clip, I forgot about how great of a 3 pointer shooter Greg Hodges was back then. The funny thing is that with great 3 point shooters like Hodges and Kerr on the Bulls, if the Bulls were down by three with time to take one shot 99% of the time Jordan would be taking the shot.
What is also great about the clip is it shows the greatest basketball player in the world putting himself out there taking on another challenge. The stars today are too afraid to compete outside of the specialty, Jordan was always down to compete even when he had nothing to prove.

only if the 3pt attempt was a contested bailout shot at least according to 3ball. and his name was craig not greg.