View Full Version : What was Lebron's worst playoff cast?
3ba11
10-13-2021, 12:10 AM
Arenas and Hughes made the 2nd Round in 2005, but then Lebron stole Hughes to beat Arenas and make the 2nd Round in 06' - this was in addition to already having the East all-star center on the team.
So Lebron always had among the best casts in the East (high seeds) and never carried "bums" in the playoffs - he infact failed to carry lottery teams (teams that were lottery the prior year) to low seeds in 04', 05', and 19', and therefore never had to carry his worst teams in the playoffs like rookie MJ or 06' Kobe (who carried lottery teams to low seeds).
Kobe missed the playoffs with 3 Hall of Famers.
GrayGoat
10-13-2021, 12:13 AM
Kobe is 6-16 vs LeBron
3ba11
10-13-2021, 12:19 AM
Kobe missed the playoffs with 3 Hall of Famers.
Did you vote?
I misclicked and voted for 2018 Cavs, but they were actually veteran champions and the most experienced team in the league.. Whereas the 06' Cavs had their opponent's sidekick but they were still young and inexperienced.
So the 06' Cavs were Lebron's worst playoff cast, despite having the East all-star center and his opponent's all-defender sidekick
SouBeachTalents
10-13-2021, 12:26 AM
Did you vote?
I misclicked and voted for 2018 Cavs, but they were actually veteran champions and the most experienced team in the league.. Whereas the 06' Cavs had their opponent's sidekick but they were still young and inexperienced.
So the 06' Cavs were Lebron's worst playoff cast, despite having the East all-star center and his opponent's all-defender sidekick
Poor 3ball, has absolutely no idea a lot of the guys getting minutes for the Cavs that year were added to the team midseason and had never even been to the Finals to that point in their career.
But they were for sure more experienced than the Warriors :lol
3ba11
10-13-2021, 12:28 AM
Kobe missed the playoffs with 3 Hall of Famers.
Lebron lost in the 2nd Round with Shaq as 5th option, who was still getting better stats than any center MJ ever had, and better PER or WS/48 than Pippen in 88', 89', 90' and 93' Playoffs.. That was the Cavs' 5th option that year...
Ultimately, the 09/10 Cavs had better defensive rank and FAR more scoring options than the 1st three-peat Bulls - heck, Jamison/Shaq were added to a 66-win league favorite juggernaut...
Lebron somehow couldn't win with this.. :facepalm:
So Lebron had better casts on both sides of the ball and higher seeds, yet Jordan beat him to titles - specifically, the 09' Cavs had the 3rd ranked defense, compared to 19th for the 90' Bulls, while Mo was superior to Pippen across the board offensively (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, scoring, efficiency) - so again - Lebron had far better casts on both sides of the ball and higher seeds, yet Jordan beat him to titles
Lebron lost in the 2nd Round with Shaq as 5th option, who was still getting better stats than any center MJ ever had, and better PER or WS/48 than Pippen in 88', 89', 90' and 93' Playoffs.. That was the Cavs' 5th option that year...
Ultimately, the 09/10 Cavs had better defensive rank and FAR more scoring options than the 1st three-peat Bulls - heck, Jamison/Shaq were added to a 66-win league favorite juggernaut...
Lebron somehow couldn't win with this.. :facepalm:
So Lebron had better casts on both sides of the ball and higher seeds, yet Jordan beat him to titles - specifically, the 09' Cavs had the 3rd ranked defense, compared to 19th for the 90' Bulls, while Mo was superior to Pippen across the board offensively (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, scoring, efficiency) - so again - Lebron had far better casts on both sides of the ball and higher seeds, yet Jordan beat him to titles
Running back to your Jordan binky cuz you can’t defend Kobe’s failures.
:(
3ba11
10-13-2021, 12:40 AM
Running back to your Jordan binky cuz you can’t defend Kobe’s failures.
:(
What failures?... Kobe only lost twice in the Finals and otherwise never lost as the favorite.
And btw, Shaq-ball got figured out in 2004 - that wasn't Kobe's fault anymore than it was Lebron's for Wade not turning the team over in 2011... :confusedshrug:...
At least Kobe didn't shrink-choke like Lebron did - no historic choke and scared puppy for Kobe because Kobe went down shooting - Kobe took more shots than Shaq but he was forced to take bad shots because Shaq was still calling for the ball even though the defense had figured out how to limit the Lakers' output running Shaq-ball
And Kobe carried a 1x all-star to the Finals in 2008, while Lebron missed the playoffs with a 2x all-star in 2005, and missed the Finals with all-stars in 2009 and 2010.. Only Lebron lost twice in a row with 60-win, 1 seeds.
SouBeachTalents
10-13-2021, 12:46 AM
What failures?... Kobe only lost twice in the Finals and otherwise never lost as the favorite.
And btw, Shaq-ball got figured out in 2004 - that wasn't Kobe's fault anymore than it was Lebron's for Wade not turning the team over in 2011... :confusedshrug:...
At least Kobe didn't shrink-choke like Lebron did - no historic choke and scared puppy for Kobe because Kobe went down shooting - Kobe took more shots than Shaq but he was forced to take bad shots because Shaq was still calling for the ball even though the defense had figured out how to limit the Lakers' output running Shaq-ball
And Kobe carried a 1x all-star to the Finals in 2008, while Lebron missed the playoffs with a 2x all-star in 2005, and missed the Finals with all-stars in 2009 and 2010.. Only Lebron lost twice in a row with 60-win, 1 seeds.
:oldlol:
2003 Western Conf Semis Spurs +125 Lakers -145
2011 Western Conf Semis Lakers -360 Mavericks +280
Can you be more full of shit?
What failures?... Kobe only lost twice in the Finals and otherwise never lost as the favorite.
And btw, Shaq-ball got figured out in 2004 - that wasn't Kobe's fault anymore than it was Lebron's for Wade not turning the team over in 2011... :confusedshrug:...
At least Kobe didn't shrink-choke like Lebron did - no historic choke and scared puppy for Kobe because Kobe went down shooting - Kobe took more shots than Shaq but he was forced to take bad shots because Shaq was still calling for the ball even though the defense had figured out how to limit the Lakers' output running Shaq-ball
And Kobe carried a 1x all-star to the Finals in 2008, while Lebron missed the playoffs with a 2x all-star in 2005, and missed the Finals with all-stars in 2009 and 2010.. Only Lebron lost twice in a row with 60-win, 1 seeds.
Your post is not even worth refuting if you think Shaq was at fault for 2004. Kobe had one of the most disgusting finals chokes ever that year.
:oldlol:
Can you be more full of shit?
Considering he blamed Shaq for 2004, yes.
SouBeachTalents
10-13-2021, 12:57 AM
Considering he blamed Shaq for 2004, yes.
I didn't even read the rest of that nonsense post past the first line. I guess he forgot that "Shaq-ball" just recently led to a 3peat, and in the one instance that Kobe decides to hijack a series taking shots away from Shaq, it's apparently Shaq's fault that they lost :lol I also see he absolves LeBron of blame for 2011 as well.
I didn't even read the rest of that nonsense post past the first line. I guess he forgot that "Shaq-ball" just recently led to a 3peat, and in the one instance that Kobe decides to hijack a series taking shots away from Shaq, it's apparently Shaq's fault that they lost :lol I also see he absolves LeBron of blame for 2011 as well.
Crazy that he loves Kobe so much he’ll absolve his most hated player of his lowest moment just to try and make a point that benefits Kobe.
3ba11
10-13-2021, 01:11 AM
Crazy that he loves Kobe so much he’ll absolve his most hated player of his lowest moment just to try and make a point that benefits Kobe.
Why couldn't the lazy bum and the solved Shaq-ball defer like he did to Wade in 2006?... If he did that from training camp in 2003, then those Lakers wouid've 3-peated again with Kobe at the helm - if you know anything about the game of basketball, you will know that Godbe was at peak level in 03-05' and was superior by a hair to peak Wade in 06'.. That's why Kobe says he missed out on 10 rings with Shaq as 2nd option - that's what Kobe is talking about when he says he'd have 10 rings with a hard-working Shaq - he means with himself as top dog (shaq as #2 like 06' shaq)..
How can you deny this... :biggums:
SouBeachTalents
10-13-2021, 01:24 AM
Why couldn't the lazy bum and the solved Shaq-ball defer like he did to Wade in 2006?... If he did that from training camp in 2003, then those Lakers wouid've 3-peated again with Kobe at the helm - if you know anything about the game of basketball, you will know that Godbe was at peak level in 03-05' and was superior by a hair to peak Wade in 06'.. That's why Kobe says he missed out on 10 rings with Shaq as 2nd option - that's what Kobe is talking about when he says he'd have 10 rings with a hard-working Shaq - he means with himself as top dog (shaq as #2 like 06' shaq)..
How can you deny this... :biggums:
Kobe took 7 more shots per game than Shaq did in the '03 & '04 playoffs, so he was deferring to him ya fcking doofus :lol
It seems like when Shaq was the 1st option/leading scorer, the Lakers 3peated. When Kobe became the leading scorer, they got bounced in the 2nd round and lost in a historic Finals upset.
Did 3ball really just cal Kobe “Godbe”? The Kobetard mask keeps slipping. 3ball just quit with the MJ stuff already and sack up and admit you’re a Kobe guy. No more hiding behind MJ, compare Kobe to LeBron. Unless, of course, you’re scared. :yaohappy:
Kobe took 7 more shots per game than Shaq did in the '03 & '04 playoffs, so he was deferring to him ya fcking doofus :lol
It seems like when Shaq was the 1st option/leading scorer, the Lakers 3peated. When Kobe became the leading scorer, they got bounced in the 2nd round and lost in a historic Finals upset.
Shaq was apparently supposed to score like 15 PPG like he did with Wade in 2006. Kobe’s poor ego couldn’t handle being outscored by someone who shot much less than him :(
3ba11
10-13-2021, 10:24 AM
Kobe took 7 more shots per game than Shaq did in the '03 & '04 playoffs, so he was deferring to him ya fcking doofus :lol
It seems like when Shaq was the 1st option/leading scorer, the Lakers 3peated. When Kobe became the leading scorer, they got bounced in the 2nd round and lost in a historic Finals upset.
Shaq was literally feuding with kobe over top dog status - he wasn't a clear-cut "pippen" like he was with Wade
If Shaq had been more mature like he was with Wade and willingly been the "pippen", then the Lakers would've won like the Heat did
How did Wade win with a crappy version of Shaq? It's because Shaq was a pippen, and he should've done that for kobe
SaintzFury13
10-13-2021, 04:13 PM
Shaq was literally feuding with kobe over top dog status - he wasn't a clear-cut "pippen" like he was with Wade
If Shaq had been more mature like he was with Wade and willingly been the "pippen", then the Lakers would've won like the Heat did
How did Wade win with a crappy version of Shaq? It's because Shaq was a pippen, and he should've done that for kobe
Why would Shaq be willing to be the Pippen? He was still clearly the better player and was putting up more points on better efficiency.
Phoenix
10-13-2021, 04:23 PM
And btw, Shaq-ball got figured out in 2004 - that wasn't Kobe's fault anymore than it was Lebron's for Wade not turning the team over in 2011... :confusedshrug:...
https://c.tenor.com/R-Rt60PrKBIAAAAM/j-teezie-submissions-erupt.gif
Wait.....so Shaq dropped 27/11 49% on the Pistons Wallace Bros frontline, Kobe dropped 23/3/4 on 38%............................................... and you're saying Shaq is to blame?!
The CIA need to monitor you. I don't even want to joke about this but you sounds like a future mass shooter.
kuniva_dAMiGhTy
10-13-2021, 04:28 PM
https://c.tenor.com/R-Rt60PrKBIAAAAM/j-teezie-submissions-erupt.gif
Wait.....so Shaq dropped 27/11 49% on the Pistons Wallace Bros frontline, Kobe dropped 23/3/4 on 38%............................................... and you're saying Shaq is to blame?!
The CIA need to monitor you. I don't even want to joke about this but you sounds like a future mass shooter.
His love for Kobe knows no bounds.
He sorta reminds me of that dweeb, Eliteballer. :lol Both are obsessed Mamba fanatics and hate Lebron passionately. Reading their posts, though, you know there's something not quite right.
https://c.tenor.com/R-Rt60PrKBIAAAAM/j-teezie-submissions-erupt.gif
Wait.....so Shaq dropped 27/11 49% on the Pistons Wallace Bros frontline, Kobe dropped 23/3/4 on 38%............................................... and you're saying Shaq is to blame?!
The CIA need to monitor you. I don't even want to joke about this but you sounds like a future mass shooter.
49%? Shaq shot 63% in that series my dude. You’re look at his FT%. He was scoring on the Pistons at will and Kobe still refused to pass to him :lol. Shaq’s fault doeeeee
FireDavidKahn
10-13-2021, 11:53 PM
The title he won in Cleveland.
SATAN
10-14-2021, 03:21 AM
The CIA need to monitor you. I don't even want to joke about this but you sounds like a future mass shooter.
:oldlol:
ShawkFactory
10-14-2021, 10:16 AM
Did you vote?
I misclicked and voted for 2018 Cavs, but they were actually veteran champions and the most experienced team in the league.. Whereas the 06' Cavs had their opponent's sidekick but they were still young and inexperienced.
So the 06' Cavs were Lebron's worst playoff cast, despite having the East all-star center and his opponent's all-defender sidekick
2008 was the worst cast.
Phoenix
10-14-2021, 10:20 AM
49%? Shaq shot 63% in that series my dude. You’re look at his FT%. He was scoring on the Pistons at will and Kobe still refused to pass to him :lol. Shaq’s fault doeeeee
Oh shit, that's even worse. :oldlol:
ImKobe
10-14-2021, 10:26 AM
2008 was the worst cast.
Yet that team took the Celtics to 7 with Lebron shitting the bed for most of that series. They were right there to steal Game 1 and that's with Lebron going 2/18 with 10 TOs. He didn't have much help on offense but you didn't exactly need an elite offense to compete out East and his defenses were elite because of the players around him.
Oh shit, that's even worse. :oldlol:
Shaq was legit scoring at will on Big Ben and SmashBoomPowbe still thought it was a good idea to chuck up hideous bricks.
ShawkFactory
10-14-2021, 10:33 AM
Yet that team took the Celtics to 7 with Lebron shitting the bed for most of that series. They were right there to steal Game 1 and that's with Lebron going 2/18 with 10 TOs. He didn't have much help on offense but you didn't exactly need an elite offense to compete out East and his defenses were elite because of the players around him.
So did the Hawks.
Doesn't really matter.
So did the Hawks.
Doesn't really matter.
Ask him how that amazing supporting cast managed to lose with LeBron dropping 45 lol
Phoenix
10-14-2021, 10:55 AM
So did the Hawks.
Doesn't really matter.
Yeah, that Celtics team seemed to scale to their competition. The two best teams they faced, the Pistons and Lakers, they beat in 6. The Hawks and Cavs? Needed 7.:confusedshrug:
AirBonner
10-14-2021, 10:58 AM
Yeah, that Celtics team seemed to scale to their competition. The two best teams they faced, the Pistons and Lakers, they beat in 6. The Hawks and Cavs? Needed 7.:confusedshrug:
Pierce LOVED giving the business to Kobe
getting_old
10-14-2021, 01:12 PM
Worst playoff cast?
The one he snapped into place on his forearm for the presser when he lost, a convenient excuse.
Only having a wheel chair brought onto the court, after a bogus injury, was more shameful.
ImKobe
10-14-2021, 01:22 PM
Ask him how that amazing supporting cast managed to lose with LeBron dropping 45 lol
Because Bron got stomped on the other end and disappeared in crunch time.
SouBeachTalents
10-14-2021, 01:31 PM
Because Bron got stomped on the other end and disappeared in crunch time.
Well, not everyone can duplicate blowing a 24 point lead at home then losing in the clincher by 40
3ba11
10-14-2021, 01:37 PM
Well, not everyone can duplicate blowing a 24 point lead at home then losing in the clincher by 40
Not everyone can average 21 on 34% in the last 3 games of the series (all losses), with 0 clutch points (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=2&DateFrom=05%2F09%2F2010&DateTo=05%2F13%2F2010) in those games (last 5 within 5)
Very few guys lose 3 straight games to lose a series, but Lebron has done it a lot of times (basically every major loss he ever had)
SouBeachTalents
10-14-2021, 01:40 PM
Not everyone can average 21 on 34% in the last 3 games of the series (all losses), with 0 clutch points (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=2&DateFrom=05%2F09%2F2010&DateTo=05%2F13%2F2010) in those games (last 5 within 5)
Very few guys lose 3 straight games to lose a series, but Lebron has done it a lot of times (basically every major loss he ever had)
So has Kobe
'04 Finals
'06 first round
'08 Finals
2011 WCSF
So has Kobe
'04 Finals
'06 first round
'08 Finals
2011 WCSF
Bold of you to expect him to hold Kobe to the same standards he holds LeBron to.
3ba11
10-14-2021, 01:47 PM
So has Kobe
'04 Finals
'06 first round
'08 Finals
2011 WCSF
Nice finds, but Lebron had more series where he lost 3 straight and less debacles overall.. Teams figure out bran-ball and win 3 straight to win the series (07' Finals, 10' ECSF, 11' Finals, 14' Finals, 15' Finals, 17' Finals, 18' Finals)
Heck, similar to all players that blow the game open with elite jumpshooting skill, you had to double-team Kobe, whereas you can play Lebron straight up, which causes Lebron to need MOAR HALP! lol
ImKobe
10-14-2021, 01:59 PM
So has Kobe
'04 Finals
'06 first round
'08 Finals
2011 WCSF
Lebron averaged less ppg than Jason Terry in the 2011 Finals
Nice finds, but Lebron had more series where he lost 3 straight and less debacles overall.. Teams figure out bran-ball and win 3 straight to win the series (07' Finals, 10' ECSF, 11' Finals, 14' Finals, 15' Finals, 17' Finals, 18' Finals)
Heck, similar to all players that blow the game open with elite jumpshooting skill, you had to double-team Kobe, whereas you can play Lebron straight up, which causes Lebron to need MOAR HALP! lol
This too, Kobe never had half the shooting talent around him that Lebron's enjoyed over the last decade.
ImKobe
10-14-2021, 02:01 PM
Well, not everyone can duplicate blowing a 24 point lead at home then losing in the clincher by 40
Lebron's lost by historic margins in the Finals multiple times :( .
Jasper
10-14-2021, 04:35 PM
what I am wondering about is the NBA is based on 3 ball at least 34% of the time if not more.
The Lakers have Melo and Lebron ... who else can shoot the 3 ball on the team ???:confusedshrug:
TheCorporation
10-14-2021, 08:04 PM
Kobe missed the playoffs with 3 Hall of Famers.
SHUT
Kobe is 6-16 vs LeBron
IT
Poor 3ball, has absolutely no idea a lot of the guys getting minutes for the Cavs that year were added to the team midseason and had never even been to the Finals to that point in their career.
But they were for sure more experienced than the Warriors :lol
DOWNNNNNNN
:dancin
3ba11
10-14-2021, 10:05 PM
Poor 3ball, has absolutely no idea a lot of the guys getting minutes for the Cavs that year were added to the team midseason and had never even been to the Finals to that point in their career.
But they were for sure more experienced than the Warriors :lol
Love = veteran champion (HOF)
JR Smith = veteran champion
Shumpert = veteran champion
Tristan Thompson = veteran champion
Korver = veteran conference champion
That's more than enough to say Lebron had a veteran champion team in 2018 and therefore superior to his 2006 cast, which had no HOF teammates or championship experience.
TAZORAC
10-14-2021, 11:50 PM
People forget Kyrie was hurt how many playoffs? so was overrated stat padding scrub Kevin Love
SaintzFury13
10-15-2021, 12:02 AM
Love = veteran champion (HOF)
JR Smith = veteran champion
Shumpert = veteran champion
Tristan Thompson = veteran champion
Korver = veteran conference champion
That's more than enough to say Lebron had a veteran champion team in 2018 and therefore superior to his 2006 cast, which had no HOF teammates or championship experience.
Imagine being this stupid.
Love = veteran champion (HOF)
JR Smith = veteran champion
Shumpert = veteran champion
Tristan Thompson = veteran champion
Korver = veteran conference champion
That's more than enough to say Lebron had a veteran champion team in 2018 and therefore superior to his 2006 cast, which had no HOF teammates or championship experience.
Yep, all those players are much better than pippen ever was in your own world.
SaintzFury13
10-15-2021, 12:14 AM
Yep, all those players are much better than pippen ever was in your own world.
The funny thing is that he listed Shumpert. Not only did Shumpert barely play in 2018, but he wasn't even on the team after the trade deadline.
The funny thing is that he listed Shumpert. Not only did Shumpert barely play in 2018, but he wasn't even on the team after the trade deadline.
Jeez, it's like saying kobe made the playoffs in 2013. Despite not playing that year due to injuries.
3ba11
10-15-2021, 12:23 AM
Yep, all those players are much better than pippen ever was in your own world.
Love is a better offensive player than Pippen, while JR Smith is close.
Defensively, Shumpert and Tristan are better defenders than 98% of Jordan's teammates in his career - so that's more than enough defensive help for Jordan, while Love/JR are better total offense than Jordan got from his 2nd/3rd options..
So the group I listed - Love, JR Smith, Shumpert, Tristan and Korver - that's more than enough help on both sides of the ball for MJ to win chips - Lebron simply made them look bad because he was turning HOF's like Love into a spot-up shooter, whereas Love would have the ball in his hands and dominate alongside MJ.
SouBeachTalents
10-15-2021, 12:28 AM
The funny thing is that he listed Shumpert. Not only did Shumpert barely play in 2018, but he wasn't even on the team after the trade deadline.
Let's take a look at the rest of those "veteran champions"
Love: 15/11 on 13 shots and 51%TS
JR: 9 ppg on 49%TS and made the biggest blunder in playoff history
Thompson: 6/6
Korver: 8 ppg
Stacked AF, and definitely more experienced than the Warriors who's Big 4 was all still in their prime.
Love is a better offensive player than Pippen, while JR Smith is close.
Defensively, Shumpert and Tristan are better defenders than 98% of Jordan's teammates in his career - so that's more than enough defensive help for Jordan, while Love/JR are better total offense than Jordan got from his 2nd/3rd options..
So the group I listed - Love, JR Smith, Shumpert, Tristan and Korver - that's more than enough help on both sides of the ball for MJ to win chips - Lebron simply made them look bad because he was turning HOF's like Love into a spot-up shooter, whereas Love would have the ball in his hands and dominate alongside MJ.
Come back to us once they start leading their teams to 55 wins while acting as first options.
SaintzFury13
10-15-2021, 12:47 AM
Love is a better offensive player than Pippen, while JR Smith is close.
Defensively, Shumpert and Tristan are better defenders than 98% of Jordan's teammates in his career - so that's more than enough defensive help for Jordan, while Love/JR are better total offense than Jordan got from his 2nd/3rd options..
So the group I listed - Love, JR Smith, Shumpert, Tristan and Korver - that's more than enough help on both sides of the ball for MJ to win chips - Lebron simply made them look bad because he was turning HOF's like Love into a spot-up shooter, whereas Love would have the ball in his hands and dominate alongside MJ.
:roll::roll::roll:
I can't breathe.
3ba11
10-15-2021, 01:16 AM
:roll::roll::roll:
I can't breathe.
Peaks
14' Love....... 40 wins... 26.9 PER... 8.9 BPM... 7.7 VORP... 0.245 WS/48.... 26/13/4
95' Pippen.... 43 wins... 22.6 PER... 7.5 BPM... 7.2 VORP... 0.188 WS/48..... 21/8/5
Peaks
14' Love....... 40 wins... 26.9 PER... 8.9 BPM... 7.7 VORP... 0.245 WS/48.... 26/13/4
95' Pippen.... 43 wins... 22.6 PER... 7.5 BPM... 7.2 VORP... 0.188 WS/48..... 21/8/5
Snivelball.
3ba11
10-15-2021, 01:22 AM
Snivelball.
I used 1995 to show that Pippen wasn't winning games after the 3-peat confidence/luster was gone and he was a loser like Love..
1995 proved that Pippen couldn't build a team year after year like real stars and simply benefitted from taking over an experienced team that had already reached it's apex in 94' - once that 3-peat luster was gone, the Bulls were a bum team and Pippen wasn't capable of building them into champs again
Peaks
14' Love....... 40 wins... 26.9 PER... 8.9 BPM... 7.7 VORP... 0.245 WS/48.... 26/13/4
95' Pippen.... 43 wins... 22.6 PER... 7.5 BPM... 7.2 VORP... 0.188 WS/48..... 21/8/5
'14 love. Less than 50 wins.
I used 1995 to show that Pippen wasn't winning games after the 3-peat confidence/luster was gone and he was a loser like Love..
1995 proved that Pippen couldn't build a team year after year like real stars and simply benefitted from taking over an experienced team that had already reached it's apex in 94' - once that 3-peat luster was gone, the Bulls were a bum team and Pippen wasn't capable of building them into champs again
That makes zero sense. You’re a babbling loon.
3ba11
10-15-2021, 01:49 AM
That makes zero sense. You’re a babbling loon.
Pippen took over a team that had already 3-peated - if you don't think that's an advantage, see 1995 when Pippen had the same shit as everyone else - turns out he couldn't build a team and the Bulls were being driven into the ground.
What happens if MJ never comes back? ... Perennial lottery for pippen? that's the direction it was headed because pippen was a secondary player and not a legit 1st option.
Pippen took over a team that had already 3-peated - if you don't think that's an advantage, see 1995 when Pippen had the same shit as everyone else - turns out he couldn't build a team and the Bulls were being driven into the ground.
What happens if MJ never comes back? ... Perennial lottery for pippen? that's the direction it was headed because pippen was a secondary player and not a legit 1st option.
You’re insane.
Pippen took over a team that had already 3-peated - if you don't think that's an advantage, see 1995 when Pippen had the same shit as everyone else - turns out he couldn't build a team and the Bulls were being driven into the ground.
What happens if MJ never comes back? ... Perennial lottery for pippen? that's the direction it was headed because pippen was a secondary player and not a legit 1st option.
55 wins without his first option while only 40 wins without his sidekick.
Phoenix
10-15-2021, 09:51 AM
Love = veteran champion (HOF)
JR Smith = veteran champion
Shumpert = veteran champion
Tristan Thompson = veteran champion
Korver = veteran conference champion
That's more than enough to say Lebron had a veteran champion team in 2018 and therefore superior to his 2006 cast, which had no HOF teammates or championship experience.
They were all 'one time champions' in 2018 and that's because they had the good fortune of being on the 2016 team.
SaintzFury13
10-15-2021, 11:30 AM
Pippen took over a team that had already 3-peated - if you don't think that's an advantage, see 1995 when Pippen had the same shit as everyone else
He didn't. He lost Horace Grant who was his robin in 1994, the season they won 55 games.
3ba11
10-15-2021, 04:04 PM
He didn't. He lost Horace Grant who was his robin in 1994, the season they won 55 games.
Kukoc was better than Horace, so Pippen had 2 Horace's to begin with
And Jordan won the 98' title with Kukoc as the starting PF in the playoffs, so there's no excuse to not with with Kukoc
Bottom line - Pippen did okay with an apex team - he wasn't a franchise player that is expected to BUILD the team each year - 1995 proved that... Then MJ returned and took a borderline lottery team to 3-peat again
ShawkFactory
10-15-2021, 05:08 PM
Kukoc was better than Horace, so Pippen had 2 Horace's to begin with
And Jordan won the 98' title with Kukoc as the starting PF in the playoffs, so there's no excuse to not with with Kukoc
Bottom line - Pippen did okay with an apex team - he wasn't a franchise player that is expected to BUILD the team each year - 1995 proved that... Then MJ returned and took a borderline lottery team to 3-peat again
Yea...and lost one of them..
SaintzFury13
10-15-2021, 05:37 PM
Kukoc was better than Horace, so Pippen had 2 Horace's to begin with
Kukoc was not better than Horace in 94 and he sure as hell was not better than him in 95.
And Jordan won the 98' title with Kukoc as the starting PF in the playoffs, so there's no excuse to not with with Kukoc
How is that the same thing? Jordan has Pippen AND Rodman still playing on the team with him in 98. Pippen has neither of them.
Hell, Jordan had Pippen AND Kukoc in 95 and guess what? He didn't win. Once again, you prove yourself to be so stupid that you somehow end up criticizing MJ with your own argument.
Bottom line - Pippen did okay with an apex team - he wasn't a franchise player that is expected to BUILD the team each year - 1995 proved that...
Again, there you go stating obvious bullshit. Pippen was third in MVP voting in 94 and led the team to 55 wins. I know you didn't watch basketball back then, so I'm going to clue you in on something: The Bulls winning 55 games caught everyone by surprise. Everyone expected the Bulls to fall back into the middle point now that Jordan was no longer there. Instead Pippen proved to everyone he was a legitimate superstar caliber player and led the Bulls to 55 wins. People were confident that the Bulls would be able to build around Pippen and that they had a legitimate chance to compete.
And again, 95 wasn't proof that Pippen couldn't lead the team. They lost Horace Grant. And yet everyone was still amazed that Pippen was able to keep the Bulls at around .500 despite that.
Then MJ returned and took a borderline lottery team to 3-peat again
Once again, no he didn't. He returned, and they lost in the second round of the playoffs. It wasn't until they got Dennis Rodman that they 3peated.
I'm going to call you out every time you continue to lie like this.
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