Define Point Forward

[tmacyaokobe01]

and list some point forwards today

this is basically my definition of point forward

A point forward, basically speaking, is a forward who brings the ball up and is the primary ball handler for a team that already has two distinct guards on the floor. There really haven't been that many, with Paul Pressey really being the first. Others were Pippen and Hill. James is really the only one today, although Odom and Diaw have been able to play it in a pinch (it was attempted to put Walker there, but his decision making was never really the best).


Point forwards today are
LeBron James, Boris Diaw, Lamar Odom, AK-47(in the playoffs), and possibly John Salmons

[sixerfan3511]

Point forwards today are
LeBron James, Boris Diaw, Lamar Odom, AK-47(in the playoffs), and possibly John Salmons

Grant Hill, Andre Iguodala are 2 more

[tmacyaokobe01]

Grant Hill isn't anymore, and Andre i don't really consider.

i consider him a playmaking forward.

[sixerfan3511]

Grant Hill isn't anymore, and Andre i don't really consider.

i consider him a playmaking forward.

averaged almost 6 assists a game...that's a point forward. And yeah, Hill isn't as much as he used to be, but he still is. Jalen Rose as well...

[Y2Gezee]

Well if Tmac isn't a point forward, I don't know what one is.

[tmacyaokobe01]

averaged almost 6 assists a game...that's a point forward. And yeah, Hill isn't as much as he used to be, but he still is. Jalen Rose as well...
assists doesn't necessarily mean hes a point forward. It means that hes a really good playmaker.

By the way Jalen Rose was probably the biggest joke of a point forward.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Well if Tmac isn't a point forward, I don't know what one is.
LeBron, Odom, Diaw and Ak-47.

Past

Pippen, Penny, Paul Pressey and Grant Hill.

[Y2Gezee]

LeBron, Odom, Diaw and Ak-47.

Past

Pippen, Penny, Paul Pressey and Grant Hill.

Tmac

[tmacyaokobe01]

Tmac
thats a no.

T-Mac has been a guard nearly his whole career and is not even the primary ball-handler.

Sorry.

[sixerfan3511]

what i find funny here is, to put it nicely, u started a topic to find out what other people's opinions are on what a point forward is, and yet your shooting down every1s opinions. If you know what and who the point forwards are, then y even post this topic?

[tmacyaokobe01]

what i find funny here is, to put it nicely, u started a topic to find out what other people's opinions are on what a point forward is, and yet your shooting down every1s opinions. If you know what and who the point forwards are, then y even post this topic?
oh sorry, i'm asking about your definition.

I'm just proving to some of you who are and who isn't.

So define it now please.

[sixerfan3511]

and list some point forwards today

We are doing that, just as you requested, and they're all getting shot down. That's my point.

A point forward is a forward who handles the ball and runs the offense to close to or the same degree as a point guard normally would.

[tmacyaokobe01]

We are doing that, just as you requested, and they're all getting shot down. That's my point.

A point forward is a forward who handles the ball and runs the offense to close to or the same degree as a point guard normally would.
i'm more into the definition then the players.

[Rebel INS]

Grant Hill isn't anymore, and Andre i don't really consider.

i consider him a playmaking forward.

Who are you to determine the strict definition of point forward. If Andre Iguodala can create successful scoring opportunities he can be characterized as a point forward. There is no straight-forward position such as a "point forward", so there can't be a strict list of who is and who is not a point forward.

[Y2Gezee]

thats a no.

T-Mac has been a guard nearly his whole career and is not even the primary ball-handler.

Sorry.


Tmac is a swingman. IE G/F. He's made allstar teams as a forward before and he basically is there primary ball handler. He's there main playmaker, I believe he leads them in assists and often initiates their offense. Therefore you are wrong and this is a dumb thread. Because there are a lot of point forwards. Hell Pierce has played point forward a good amount of his career.

Im out.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Tmac is a swingman. IE G/F. He's made allstar teams as a forward before and he basically is there primary ball handler. He's there main playmaker, I believe he leads them in assists and often initiates their offense. Therefore you are wrong and this is a dumb thread. Because there are a lot of point forwards. Hell Pierce has played point forward a good amount of his career.

Im out.
Hes not the primary ball-handler Rafer is.

He doesn't really run the offense by himself either he runs it with Alston and Yao, They help a lot.

if you consider t-mac one you mind as well consider pierce one.

[trig]

Luke Walton
Balkman(summer league)


IMO point forward doesn't necesarily mean you have to bring down the ball. Its more of a role on offense were you have the ball and people around you rotate/move and you make decisions of where/when to pass or shoot

[Selenium]

To me a point-forward is a forward who has good ballhandling and passing skills, and often facilitates the offense.

[sixerfan3511]

To me a point-forward is a forward who has good ballhandling and passing skills, and often facilitates the offense.

sounds like Iguodala...and Hill...and T-Mac...

[tmacyaokobe01]

Luke Walton
Balkman(summer league)


IMO point forward doesn't necesarily mean you have to bring down the ball. Its more of a role on offense were you have the ball and people around you rotate/move and you make decisions of where/when to pass or shoot
Luke Walton yes, i think hes developing into one.

Bring the ball down, i don't think its a big deal either but primary ball handling yes.

[Mr_Basketball#1]

A foward with a point guard mentality....

[RecSpecs110]

You could add Vince Carter to the list as well.

[tmacyaokobe01]

You could add Vince Carter to the list as well.
VC i believe is a combo guard.

Because he plays point guard when Jason Kidd is on the bench, since marcus williams and all those other point guards are unexperienced and not that great.

[sixerfan3511]

VC i believe is a combo guard.

Because he plays point guard when Jason Kidd is on the bench, since marcus williams and all those other point guards are unexperienced and not that great.

VC...combo guard...same sentence? He's a wing...

[tmacyaokobe01]

VC...combo guard...same sentence? He's a wing...
hes a point guard when Kidd is on the bench.

Marcus williams doesn't get that much minutes and neither does eddie house or does other bench players.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Scottie Pippen is the greatest Point Forward ever in the NBA league. Well, I'm not sure whether James will exceed him in the future.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Scottie Pippen is the greatest Point Forward ever in the NBA league. Well, I'm not sure whether James will exceed him in the future.
I agree with you 100%.

[ZHAKIDD532]

one who controls the ball and runs the offense from the foward position, simply put...when one has a point foward, what is the other guard called? small guard?

[ilovetoplayball]

and list some point forwards today

this is basically my definition of point forward

A point forward, basically speaking, is a forward who brings the ball up and is the primary ball handler for a team that already has two distinct guards on the floor. There really haven't been that many, with Paul Pressey really being the first. Others were Pippen and Hill. James is really the only one today, although Odom and Diaw have been able to play it in a pinch (it was attempted to put Walker there, but his decision making was never really the best).


Point forwards today are
LeBron James, Boris Diaw, Lamar Odom, AK-47(in the playoffs), and possibly John Salmons

andre kerilinko

[tmacyaokobe01]

andre kerilinko
Andrei Kirilenko is AK-47

[RecSpecs110]

Whatever, Vince can play SF and PG at different stages of the game.

[ilovetoplayball]

Andrei Kirilenko is AK-47

im not a great speller

[LakerWarrior12]

Scottie Pippen is the defintion of Point Foward..

[tmacyaokobe01]

im not a great speller
its alright i'm just letting you know i already put down Kirilenko.

[tmacyaokobe01]

definitions anyone?

[Kblaze8855]

Scottie Pippen is the defintion of Point Foward..


Thats all I came in here to say.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Whatever, Vince can play SF and PG at different stages of the game.
He played forward at Toronto.

But yes thats true.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

How do you not consider T-mac a point forward? He handles the ball a lot and does it the most in the half court sets and he initiates most of the plays. Is the main playmaker. Yeah he plays guard a lot but he is a swingman. He would be playing SF if battier wasn't on the team, just like Carter would play SF if Jefferson wasn't on the team. They both are G/Fs.

[Jailblazers7]

This clown made this same thread a while ago and did the same thing shooting down everyone's opinions. I tried to tell him before T-Mac is a point forward but this kid just doesnt listen. I suggest everyone move on because this kids skull is so thick it is impossible for any knowledge to make its way into his brain.

[Selenium]

Scottie Pippen is the greatest Point Forward ever...
Grant Hill is who comes to mind for me as the greatest point-forward ever. He was a better ball handler, passer, and a more creative playmaker than Pippen.

Not saying he was a better player overall, just that he was a better point-forward. In my opinion, anyway.

[hateraid]

To me a point-forward is a forward who has good ballhandling and passing skills, and often facilitates the offense.

Great explanation:applause:

BTW, I thought Magic started the point forward concept when he came back from HIV?

[hateraid]

Oh and a shout out for Anthony Mason in this thread

[poorlilrich]

Mike Dunleavy and Stephen Jackson

[L.Kizzle]

The first point foward was probally John Havlicek.

[ElPigto]

Oh and a shout out for Anthony Mason in this thread

Was he effective or was it just Nellie's fascination to have one point forward in every team he coaches?

[hateraid]

Was he effective or was it just Nellie's fascination to have one point forward in every team he coaches?

I mostly recall hi from his Knicks and Hornets days. His dribble was UGLY, but he effectively controlled the tempo of the game. Pushed the ball up the floor really well and came up with good decisions. Again, that dribble was:wtf:

[Inspector Rick]

The definition of a point foward is.......... *drum roll* .................................................. ... Point forward.

Pretty self explanatory if you ask me.

[brantonli]

thats a no.

T-Mac has been a guard nearly his whole career and is not even the primary ball-handler.

Sorry.


He's a point forward for the Rockets. If you tell me that the ball doesn't go through his hands at least once every 1-2 possessions, you haven't watched Rockets for the past three years. Also, he averages 6+ assists, not enough? Heck, I know some rockets fans who want to put McGrady as a PG because of his play-making skills.

[AirGordon7]

What about KG

I think Kevin Durant might be one also

[Selenium]

What about KG

KG is definitely a power point-forward.

[LJJ]

Wasn't Oscar Robertson more or less a point forward?

[Fudge]

This chump came back? His other username was kobetmacyao01 and was arguing the same garbage.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Oh and a shout out for Anthony Mason in this thread
not really a point forward just a good ball-handler.

wasn't really the playmaker of the team.

[tmacyaokobe01]

KG is definitely a power point-forward.
yeah, thats true in the playoffs also don't forget Antoine Walker in his good days (celtic days)

[tmacyaokobe01]

He's a point forward for the Rockets. If you tell me that the ball doesn't go through his hands at least once every 1-2 possessions, you haven't watched Rockets for the past three years. Also, he averages 6+ assists, not enough? Heck, I know some rockets fans who want to put McGrady as a PG because of his play-making skills.

6+ assists doesn't mean anything about point forward otherwise say Pau Gasol is a point forward since he led his team in assists.

Hes not the primary ball-handler either for the rockets. Rafer is and in the 04-05 season Sura and Mike James were.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Reasons why McGrady is not a point forward

1. Is not the primary Ball-handler on the team

2. Does not run the offense all by himself has Alston and Yao helping him.

3. Does not have the handles to be one he only has shooting guard handles

4. McGrady has been a guard nearly his whole career but is not a combo guard either when you think of point forwards you think of forwards.

5. got anymore arguments?

[Rockets(T-mac)]

This chump came back? His other username was kobetmacyao01 and was arguing the same garbage.
Your right I think I remember this guy he did the same argumen before likes months ago. He never listened anyone just like he is doing now.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Reasons why McGrady is not a point forward

1. Is not the primary Ball-handler on the team
If he isn't the primary ball handler why does he bring the ball up the court in fouth quarters and late game situations? Almost every possession goes through him.


2. Does not run the offense all by himself has Alston and Yao helping him.
Yeah he doesn't do this by himself but he is the person doing it the most. He is the facilitator and makes the majority of the plays happen.


3. Does not have the handles to be one he only has shooting guard handles
What the f*ck are you talking about he has amazing handles if he didn't Houston wouldn't trust him with the ball some much.


4. McGrady has been a guard nearly his whole career but is not a combo guard either when you think of point forwards you think of forwards.
But he is a swingman. He can plays G/F he plays what ever spot the Rockets need the most.


5. got anymore arguments?
Just listed them.

[Se]

A point forward, basically speaking, is a forward who brings the ball up and is the primary ball handler for a team that already has two distinct guards on the floor. There really haven't been that many, with Paul Pressey really being the first. Others were Pippen and Hill. James is really the only one today, although Odom and Diaw have been able to play it in a pinch (it was attempted to put Walker there, but his decision making was never really the best).


By this definition:
Grant Hill
Lamar Odom
Kobe Bryant (He's 6'6" he can play forward)
Tracy McGrady
Joe Johnson
Paul Pierce
LeBron James
Richard Jefferson (when Kidd was injured, when Jeff had the huge year)
Andre Igoudala
Vince Carter
Boris Diaw
Brandon Roy (might be pushing it now)
Antoine Walker
Ron Artest
Manu Ginobili
Andrei Kirilenko
Mike Dunleavy Jr.
Kevin Garnett

[tmacyaokobe01]

If he isn't the primary ball handler why does he bring the ball up the court in fouth quarters and late game situations? Almost every possession goes through him.


Yeah he doesn't do this by himself but he is the person doing it the most. He is the facilitator and makes the majority of the plays happen.


What the f*ck are you talking about he has amazing handles if he didn't Houston wouldn't trust him with the ball some much.


But he is a swingman. He can plays G/F he plays what ever spot the Rockets need the most.


Just listed them.

1. he brings up the ball in the 4th quarter because of a strategy all coaches use in the 4th quarter. You also see Wade, Kobe, LeBron, and Melo sometimes do it they are clearly not point forwards.

2. Ok

3. amazing handles? 3 turnovers per game in a halfcourt set is not amazing handles.

4. true but not a point forward

5. got anymore?

and no i'm not stubborn i just know this stuff.

[tmacyaokobe01]

[QUOTE=Se

[Richie2k6]

Kobe Bryant (He's 6'6" he can play forward) (doesn't even pass the ball)
Over exaggeration.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Over exaggeration.
ok, is this better

does not create shots for others anymore?

[Richie2k6]

ok, is this better

does not create shots for others anymore?
To an extent. He's still the lead playmaker next to Odom. Just scores more now.

[tmacyaokobe01]

To an extent. He's still the lead playmaker next to Odom. Just scores more now.
obviously you don't watch laker games.

Luke walton is the 2nd playmaker and Odom is the lead playmaker.

Kobe is the 3rd earlier this season he was probably the lead. Not anymore.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

1. he brings up the ball in the 4th quarter because of a strategy all coaches use in the 4th quarter. You also see Wade, Kobe, LeBron, and Melo sometimes do it they are clearly not point forwards.
If wade and was taller and played more like a forward he would be a point forward too. T-mac and Alston take turns bring it up the court. T-mac handles the rock way more on half court possessions any way. T-mac on the fast break usually has the ball and decides what to do, not always but usually.



3. amazing handles? 3 turnovers per game in a halfcourt set is not amazing handles.
Nash averaged 3, Wade averaged 4, AI averaged 4. Those are all great ball handlers and look at their turnovers. T-mac isn't as good in terms of ball handling as them, but he has more handles than an average SG like you said.


4. true but not a point forward
What do you mean? I said he can play both and he does, but doesn't right now because the Rockets need him to play SG since they have a SF. (and you agreed to this) And still you are like he still isn't a point forward.

[tmacyaokobe01]

If wade and was taller and played more like a forward he would be a point forward too. T-mac and Alston take turns bring it up the court. T-mac handles the rock way more on half court possessions any way. T-mac on the fast break usually has the ball and decides what to do, not always but usually.



Nash averaged 3, Wade averaged 4, AI averaged 4. Those are all great ball handlers and look at their turnovers. T-mac isn't as good in terms of ball handling as them, but he has more handles than an average SG like you said.


What do you mean? I said he can play both and he does, but doesn't right now because the Rockets need him to play SG since they have a SF. (and you agreed to this) And still you are like he still isn't a point forward.

Alston brings up the ball way more then McGrady and bringing the ball up is a point guard trait. So put an X for another reason why hes not a point forward.

those guys are average and good at handling the ball because they play in a very fast pace game especially steve nash. If any of those players played a halfcourt set it would probably be 2 turnovers per game.

[tmacyaokobe01]

i agreed that T-Mac is just a swingman.

[Richie2k6]

Alston brings up the ball way more then McGrady and bringing the ball up is a point guard trait.
One trait. Lebron doesn't usually bring the ball up the court. Hughes or Gibson do. They give him the ball near the halfcourt line, but it's obvious Lebron James is the Cavalier's lead playmaker.

those guys are average and good at handling the ball because they play in a very fast pace game especially steve nash.
The Miami Heat are not a very fast paced team.

If any of those players played a halfcourt set it would probably be 2 turnovers per game.
No, it would still be high because of the fact that they're guards and handle the ball more than any other positions. Their minutes per game also factor in. The more minutes you get, the more likely you are to turn the ball over. Wade gets many minutes, Nash gets many minutes, and Iverson gets a hell of a lot of minutes. They'd still be turning the ball over because they handle the ball the most on their teams, regardless of whether it's a halfcourt set or a fast break team. And once again, the Heat aren't a fast team anyways, so Wade's turnovers are just bad plays and the fact that he has so many minutes and handles the ball so much.

[tmacyaokobe01]

One trait. Lebron doesn't usually bring the ball up the court. Hughes or Gibson do. They give him the ball near the halfcourt line, but it's obvious Lebron James is the Cavalier's lead playmaker.

The Miami Heat are not a very fast paced team.

No, it would still be high because of the fact that they're guards and handle the ball more than any other positions. Their minutes per game also factor in. The more minutes you get, the more likely you are to turn the ball over. Wade gets many minutes, Nash gets many minutes, and Iverson gets a hell of a lot of minutes. They'd still be turning the ball over because they handle the ball the most on their teams, regardless of whether it's a halfcourt set or a fast break team. And once again, the Heat aren't a fast team anyways, so Wade's turnovers are just bad plays and the fact that he has so many minutes and handles the ball so much.
actually lebron usually does bring up the ball.

he brings up the ball more frequently then Gibson and Hughes.

McGrady gets less minutes and 1 turnover less.

If McGrady played 40 minutes per game he would average about 4 TPG.



They are much more fast paced then the rockets

[Richie2k6]

actually lebron usually does bring up the ball.
:rolleyes: Not as much as Hughes or Gibson.

McGrady gets less minutes and 1 turnover less.
Thanks for proving my point.

If McGrady played 40 minutes per game he would average about 4 TPG.
Around there, probably.

They are much more fast paced then the rockets
Who, the Heat?

[tmacyaokobe01]

:rolleyes: Not as much as Hughes or Gibson.

Thanks for proving my point.

Around there, probably.

Who, the Heat?
rockets are the slowest team in the NBA.

They get no fastbreak points.

Heat are faster.

No LeBron brings the ball up way more.

even before the 4th quarter.

[tmacyaokobe01]

heres the thing

Tracy McGrady, Josh Howard, Paul Pierce and Dirk can all do roles a point forward can do.

But are they a complete point forward?

No.

They are not point forwards but they can do things a point forward can do.

For Example, Playmaking.

[Richie2k6]

rockets are the slowest team in the NBA.
Arguably. The Pistons are right there as well.

Heat are faster.
Faster, but they're still not fast.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Arguably. The Pistons are right there as well.

Faster, but they're still not fast.
true on the heat, but no pistons do run fastbreaks.

They play zone sometimes for a reason to get easy fastbreak points.

[dejordan]

larry bird played some point forward, and was amazing at it. he didn't do the majority of the ball handling, but he did toss the outlet passes, and he controlled the ball and made the decisions in the half court. larry bird at the top of the key was as dangerous a playmaker as i've ever seen. in 91 and 92 (boston won the atlantic both years), dj was gone, and ford was the coach, and it was very clear that bird was the brains behind the team. he missed a lot of games but still had a huge impact.

pippen seems to have re-defined the point forward with his exceptional handle and full complement of guard skills. he is the basis that people seem to use for what a point forward should be, and in a lot of ways he, michael, and clyde changed the expectation that a swingman should be a finisher to making the position one for creators as well.

before them you had a lot pg / sg combos like dj and theus but the sg / sf swingmen were expected to be dr. j style wingmen - and i'm not making a judgement on which of those is more important. most of the reason that mj and scottie had to play the creator roles was that they didn't have pure pgs on their teams. it doesn't make much difference what position does what as long as every team has playmakers, finishers, and shooters in the perimeter.

[brantonli]

Reasons why McGrady is not a point forward

1. Is not the primary Ball-handler on the team

2. Does not run the offense all by himself has Alston and Yao helping him.

3. Does not have the handles to be one he only has shooting guard handles

4. McGrady has been a guard nearly his whole career but is not a combo guard either when you think of point forwards you think of forwards.

5. got anymore arguments?


Yes. Watch a Rockets game. And by the way, just so there are no hard feelings between us:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTaj7IRBtg

[Richie2k6]

larry bird played some point forward, and was amazing at it. he didn't do the majority of the ball handling, but he did toss the outlet passes, and he controlled the ball and made the decisions in the half court.
Which is what tmacyaokobe01 needs to understand - not being the primary ball handler doesn't not make you a point forward.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Yes. Watch a Rockets game. And by the way, just so there are no hard feelings between us:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTaj7IRBtg
dude i've watched all 82 games this season including the playoffs and your telling me to?

I can easily tell that Tracy McGrady is a great playmaker.

He can do roles of a point forward but he isn't one and the same goes for Josh Howard, Dirk and Pierce.

[tmacyaokobe01]

larry bird played some point forward, and was amazing at it. he didn't do the majority of the ball handling, but he did toss the outlet passes, and he controlled the ball and made the decisions in the half court. larry bird at the top of the key was as dangerous a playmaker as i've ever seen. in 91 and 92 (boston won the atlantic both years), dj was gone, and ford was the coach, and it was very clear that bird was the brains behind the team. he missed a lot of games but still had a huge impact.

pippen seems to have re-defined the point forward with his exceptional handle and full complement of guard skills. he is the basis that people seem to use for what a point forward should be, and in a lot of ways he, michael, and clyde changed the expectation that a swingman should be a finisher to making the position one for creators as well.

before them you had a lot pg / sg combos like dj and theus but the sg / sf swingmen were expected to be dr. j style wingmen - and i'm not making a judgement on which of those is more important. most of the reason that mj and scottie had to play the creator roles was that they didn't have pure pgs on their teams. it doesn't make much difference what position does what as long as every team has playmakers, finishers, and shooters in the perimeter.

Larry bird point forward?

whoa....

never heard of that before.

please DO NOT use the assists to tell that he is.

Larry Bird did not run the offense.

the Celtics ran their offense THROUGH Bird, BUT Johnson, Ainge, Archibald, and a few other guys ran THE offense.

[brantonli]

heres the thing

Tracy McGrady, Josh Howard, Paul Pierce and Dirk can all do roles a point forward can do.

But are they a complete point forward?

No.

They are not point forwards but they can do things a point forward can do.

For Example, Playmaking.

Doesn't that mean they are Point Fowards if they could do what a point foward does? You've stated it right there.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Doesn't that mean they are Point Fowards if they could do what a point foward does? You've stated it right there.
no i didn't.

i said they can do SOME stuff A POINT FORWARD does.

But they are incomplete.

[Heretik32]

Kirilenko was the primary ball handler on the Jazz during the playoffs? What the hell are you smoking, son.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Kirilenko was the primary ball handler on the Jazz during the playoffs? What the hell are you smoking, son.
do you remember when Fisher was not playing?

AK-47 brought up the ball and everything.

He was splitting it with a shooting guard i believe.

Harpring and Gordan.

[Richie2k6]

Larry bird point forward?

whoa....

never heard of that before.

please DO NOT use the assists to tell that he is.

Larry Bird is a prime example of a point forward. You didn't know that?

[dejordan]

Larry bird point forward?

whoa....

never heard of that before.

please DO NOT use the assists to tell that he is.

Larry Bird did not run the offense.

the Celtics ran their offense THROUGH Bird, BUT Johnson, Ainge, Archibald, and a few other guys ran THE offense.
i never mentioned assists. please read the whole post. the part about 91 and 92 when ainge, johnson, archibald et al were gone. brian shaw was not the decision maker on that team. he brought the ball up court and made the fastbreak passes after bird sent him the outlets. rookie dee brown was sure as hell not the decision-maker on that team.

when bird was hurt, which was a lot, the team's game changed entirely. they went from being a fast striking, cutting, running machine. to a slow down half court defensive team that relied on reggie lewis to draw doubles and kick to gamble or old, injured mchale to do his thing in the post.

i watched ball in new england from 86 - 97. i'm 100% certain of what i'm talking about. even the announcers called bird the point forward, whether it was heinson or the czar.

[brantonli]

Oh yeah, and just to clarify, I find that your definition of a point guard incorrect, mine would be:

A Point Forward is a player who is a swingman and could play SF or SG positions while playing an intergral role in playmaking for team plays. They DO NOT have to bring the ball up court, that is the job of the best ball handler (especially under pressure with time running out).


so guys like T-Mac, Pierce, are counted in.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Oh yeah, and just to clarify, I find that your definition of a point guard incorrect, mine would be:

A Point Forward is a player who is a swingman and could play SF or SG positions while playing an intergral role in playmaking for team plays. They DO NOT have to bring the ball up court, that is the job of the best ball handler (especially under pressure with time running out).


so guys like T-Mac, Pierce, are counted in.
not all of them have to be a swingman

Pippen was not a swingman and neither was Hill at his piston days.

Also, Lamar Odom isn't a swingman.

So, No that argument has failed again SOrry.
:rolleyes:

[tmacyaokobe01]

i never mentioned assists. please read the whole post. the part about 91 and 92 when ainge, johnson, archibald et al were gone. brian shaw was not the decision maker on that team. he brought the ball up court and made the fastbreak passes after bird sent him the outlets. rookie dee brown was sure as hell not the decision-maker on that team.

when bird was hurt, which was a lot, the team's game changed entirely. they went from being a fast striking, cutting, running machine. to a slow down half court defensive team that relied on reggie lewis to draw doubles and kick to gamble or old, injured mchale to do his thing in the post.

i watched ball in new england from 86 - 97. i'm 100% certain of what i'm talking about. even the announcers called bird the point forward, whether it was heinson or the czar.
so your saying when those guys left Bird was then the point forward?

[Richie2k6]

not all of them have to be a swingman

Pippen was not a swingman and neither was Hill at his piston days.

Also, Lamar Odom isn't a swingman.

So, No that argument has failed again SOrry.
:rolleyes:
Take out the swingman part and that definition is correct.

[dejordan]

so your saying when those guys left Bird was then the point forward?
yes. while he had dj, johnson was most definitely the primary decision-maker (which, by the way is how i'm defining point-anything). i never saw him play with archibald.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Take out the swingman part and that definition is correct.
When you think about point forwards you think about forwards.
Some point forwards can play shooting guard.

Penny and LeBron and thats it.

Grant didn't at his point forward days which was his piston days.

Pippen never played shooting guard.

[brantonli]

not all of them have to be a swingman

Pippen was not a swingman and neither was Hill at his piston days.

Also, Lamar Odom isn't a swingman.

So, No that argument has failed again SOrry.
:rolleyes:


how's this then:

A Point Forward is a player who could play SF or SG positions while playing an intergral role in playmaking for team plays. They DO NOT have to bring the ball up court, that is the job of the best ball handler (especially under pressure with time running out).

NOTE: It says 'or' not 'and' for the positions.

[Richie2k6]

When you think about point forwards you think about forwards.
Some point forwards can play shooting guard.

Penny and LeBron and thats it.

Grant didn't at his point forward days which was his piston days.

Pippen never played shooting guard.
I know. What's your point? My point is the definition posted earlier, minus the swingman part, is correct.

[tmacyaokobe01]

how's this then:

A Point Forward is a player who could play SF or SG positions while playing an intergral role in playmaking for team plays. They DO NOT have to bring the ball up court, that is the job of the best ball handler (especially under pressure with time running out).

NOTE: It says 'or' not 'and' for the positions.
bring the ball up frequently and your probably near right.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Just to get ths out just cuz your a point forward doesn't mean you have to bring up the ball everytime. Thats the point guards job. Remember a point forward is a forward with point guard traits. Thats doesnt' mean you have to do everything that a point guard does.

When Alston bring the ball up the court do you think he sets up a play or do you think he gives it to T-mac to set up a play? Alston brings it up but barely handles the ball after that. T-mac does most of the handling.

No Lebron doesn't bring the ball up the court more than Gibson or hughes.

Yes Brid was a point forward.

You say Odom is a point forward but he doesn't bring the ball up the court more than Kobe or Smush or Farmar.

[dejordan]

When you think about point forwards you think about forwards.
Some point forwards can play shooting guard.

Penny and LeBron and thats it.

Grant didn't at his point forward days which was his piston days.

Pippen never played shooting guard.
he actually did, but only for 1 season in 1994 while jordan was retired and he had toni and horace. when horace left, toni moved to the 4, scottie to the 3, and myers took the 2. pretty sure scottie was still being called a forward though. think he played forward at the all-star game.

[Richie2k6]

Just to get ths out just cuz your a point forward doesn't mean you have to bring up the ball everytime. Thats the point guards job. Remember a point forward is a forward with point guard traits. Thats doesnt' mean you have to do everything that a point guard does.

When Alston bring the ball up the court do you think he sets up a play or do you think he gives it to T-mac to set up a play? Alston brings it up but barely handles the ball after that. T-mac does most of the handling.

No Lebron doesn't bring the ball up the court more than Gibson or hughes.

Yes Brid was a point forward.

You say Odom is a point forward but he doesn't bring the ball up the court more than Kobe or Smush or Farmar.
/thread. That's a wrap.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Just to get ths out just cuz your a point forward doesn't mean you have to bring up the ball everytime. Thats the point guards job. Remember a point forward is a forward with point guard traits. Thats doesnt' mean you have to do everything that a point guard does.

When Alston bring the ball up the court do you think he sets up a play or do you think he gives it to T-mac to set up a play? Alston brings it up but barely handles the ball after that. T-mac does most of the handling.

No Lebron doesn't bring the ball up the court more than Gibson or hughes.

Yes Brid was a point forward.

You say Odom is a point forward but he doesn't bring the ball up the court more than Kobe or Smush or Farmar.
Again, Alston does run plays sometimes he splits the playmaking choices with T-Mac thats something people are confused with.

LeBron does bring the ball up more then gibson and hughes.

Odom does bring the ball up more then Smush and Farmer. And splits primary ball-handling with Kobe.

[Phenith]

Whatever, Vince can play SF and PG at different stages of the game.

I'm pretty sure RJ is the SF there on the Nets, cuz he sure as hell isn't a SG. VC is a combo guard, he only plays SF when there is 2 other more guard like players on the floor. Also, Marcus Williams will be getting more PT this year. As both Kidd and VC age some more the nets need to protect there investments and keep them healthy, which means not playing them 38mpg.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Again, Alston does run plays sometimes he splits the playmaking choices with T-Mac thats something people are confused with.

LeBron does bring the ball up more then gibson and hughes.

Odom does bring the ball up more then Smush and Farmer. And splits primary ball-handling with Kobe.
Alston doesn't split the playmaking he does it SOMETIMES not more than T-mac. T-mac is their best playmaker and thats why he handles the ball the most on the team. You said that Alston sometimes runs plays which means that T-mac runs them most of the time.

Where are you getting this LeBron stuff from?? He only brings the ball up the court in crunch time not very much before that.

No Odom doesn't bring the ball up the court more than Smush or who ever the PG is. He doesn't split the mins on the ball with Kobe either, Kobe gets the majority of the time with the ball.

This is getting tiring up keep repeating the same thing over and over again, instead of trying to understand the other person, which is the same thing you did on your other account.

[Richie2k6]

LeBron does bring the ball up more then gibson and hughes.
My God. No he does not. You need to watch more Cavaliers game. Nobody but you alone has said he brings the abll up the court the most. The point guard does this most, not the forward. Don't you get it? Larry Hughes or Daniel Gibson bring the ball up the court more than Lebron James. Period.

Odom does bring the ball up more then Smush and Farmer.
Oh my God. Is Lamar Odom a point guard? No.

Do you know how the triangle offense works? It makes it rare for Odom to bring the ball up the court. A guard brings the ball up the court and there are two lane runners on both sides of the court. The guard with the ball then does a lag pass to a guard near him, and thus the offense initiates. Lamar Odom does not often bring the ball up the court.

Think.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Alston doesn't split the playmaking he does it SOMETIMES not more than T-mac. T-mac is their best playmaker and thats why he handles the ball the most on the team. You said that Alston sometimes runs plays which means that T-mac runs them most of the time.

Where are you getting this LeBron stuff from?? He only brings the ball up the court in crunch time not very much before that.

No Odom doesn't bring the ball up the court more than Smush or who ever the PG is. He doesn't split the mins on the ball with Kobe either, Kobe gets the majority of the time with the ball.

This is getting tiring up keep repeating the same thing over and over again, instead of trying to understand the other person, which is the same thing you did on your other account.
Alston does split playmaking, he doesn't run more then T-Mac then.

Alston is the primary ball-handler.

LeBron brings the ball up frequently.

Odom brings the ball up frequently as well. read page 1 post 1.

[tmacyaokobe01]

I'm pretty sure RJ is the SF there on the Nets, cuz he sure as hell isn't a SG. VC is a combo guard, he only plays SF when there is 2 other more guard like players on the floor. Also, Marcus Williams will be getting more PT this year. As both Kidd and VC age some more the nets need to protect there investments and keep them healthy, which means not playing them 38mpg.
True, but last season in the 05-06 season VC played point guard due to no backup.

Antoine Wright and Hassan Adams were the backup for SF.

[Richie2k6]

LeBron brings the ball up frequently.
Frequently, NOT as much as the guards.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Frequently, NOT as much as the guards.
that was basically the part of the definition of point forward.

Tracy McGrady does not bring up the ball frequently neither does Josh Howard or Dirk or Pierce.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Frequently, NOT as much as the guards.
When i mean frequently i mean he brings up the ball A LOT.

Nearly as much as the POINT GUARDS.

[Richie2k6]

When i mean frequently i mean he brings up the ball A LOT.

Nearly as much as the POINT GUARDS.
You were just going on and on about how Lebron brings it up the most. Now you're just saying "frequently" as if you never said the most.

Man. :rolleyes:

[tmacyaokobe01]

You were just going on and on about how Lebron brings it up the most. Now you're just saying "frequently" as if you never said the most.

Man. :rolleyes:
actually i do see gibson and hughes bring the ball up a lot as well so i do agree.

But i'm saying i do see LeBron bring up the ball A LOT.

[Richie2k6]

So now you're changing your mind all of a sudden. As long as you know Gibson/Hughes do it more than Lebron, good.

[tmacyaokobe01]

So now you're changing your mind all of a sudden. As long as you know Gibson/Hughes do it more than Lebron, good.
anyways.....

[Rockets(T-mac)]

And why exactly does the point forward have to bring the ball up the court the most any ways? For that one reason you say so many players are not points forwards.

Atleast you realized that you were wrong about LeBron.

[tmacyaokobe01]

And why exactly does the point forward have to bring the ball up the court the most any ways? For that one reason you say so many players are not points forwards.

Atleast you realized that you were wrong about LeBron.
they have to bring it up frequently.

Due to the fact that they are primary ball-handler.

It is no question that LeBron is the primary ball-handler if he grabs the rebound he goes. However if T-Mac, Howard, Pierce grab the rebound they'll give it to there Primary Ball-Handler.

[dejordan]

they have to bring it up frequently.

Due to the fact that they are primary ball-handler.

It is no question that LeBron is the primary ball-handler if he grabs the rebound he goes. However if T-Mac, Howard, Pierce grab the rebound they'll give it to there Primary Ball-Handler.
you could have said the same thing about barkley in phili - he's go rebound to dribble drive all game long, but i doubt you would have considered him a point forward. i'm not saying lebron isn't one, though. i agree with you on that. i just think you're putting too much weight on who dribbles against pressure as opposed to who gets the team into it's plays and initiates the offense.

[tmacyaokobe01]

you could have said the same thing about barkley in phili - he's go rebound to dribble drive all game long, but i doubt you would have considered him a point forward. i'm not saying lebron isn't one, though. i agree with you on that. i just think you're putting too much weight on who dribbles against pressure as opposed to who gets the team into it's plays and initiates the offense.
yeah, but barkley is not a playmaker and not the primary ball-handler.

[tmacyaokobe01]

To end this thread.

Tracy McGrady is not a point forward but a swingman and the same goes for Josh Howard, Paul Pierce and Dirk Nowitzki.

[Fudge]

And what was the point of this thread again? Because, basically you've disagreed with everything that everyone said.

[BradMiller52]

Ron Artest considered a point forward? He doesn't create for other guys too much but he's probably the primary ball handler on the Kings.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Ron Artest considered a point forward? He doesn't create for other guys too much but he's probably the primary ball handler on the Kings.
2nd primary other then Bibby.

[tmacyaokobe01]

And what was the point of this thread again? Because, basically you've disagreed with everything that everyone said.

the definition of point forward?

i've agreed with a lot of people actually.

[BradMiller52]

2nd primary other then Bibby.


Uhh no, I watched 82 games of the Kings last year and Ron brought the ball up the floor more than Mike did. Mike has always been that way, he's best used when he's moving without the ball. Just like when the Kings had Webber and Christie who could also do it.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Uhh no, I watched 82 games of the Kings last year and Ron brought the ball up the floor more than Mike did. Mike has always been that way, he's best used when he's moving without the ball. Just like when the Kings had Webber and Christie who could also do it.
yeah, thats true i remember the 04-05 season I saw cuttino mobley bring up the ball a lot as well.

[BradMiller52]

yeah, thats true i remember the 04-05 season I saw cuttino mobley bring up the ball a lot as well.


Yeah Cat had a few games with a bunch of assists.

You could probably consider Chris Webber in his prime a point forward. He brought the ball up sometimes and they ran the offense through him.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Yeah Cat had a few games with a bunch of assists.

You could probably consider Chris Webber in his prime a point forward. He brought the ball up sometimes and they ran the offense through him.
Webber was the primary ball-handler?

[PP34Deuce]

I always considered a Point Forward to be a player with a very high basketball IQ, who knows where everyone should be like a PG. I also consider one to be a player that loves to set others up instead of his shot.

No one has mentioned Charles Barkley? Charles was a better point forward then pippen in my book. better passer,higher IQ, he may act dumb on TNT, but Barkley knows basketball inside and out.

[tmacyaokobe01]

did Desmond Mason play point forward this season?

i heard he did when Bobby Jackson and Chris Paul got injuried.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Was Barkley a playmaker?

[Selenium]

Webber was the primary ball-handler?

I would consider Webber a pretty good power point-forward. In his prime he was a great passer, ball handler, and had great playmaking instincts.

Remember, your definitions are not absolute, even though you seem to think otherwise.

[ReturnOfJimi]

Point Forward - Player Don Nelson overrates, plays out of position, and ultimately ends up trading.


DING ! DING ! DING !

[tmacyaokobe01]

I say webber was a very good passing power forward probably one of the best ever.

[LAZYBOY]

You do not have to be the primary ballhandler to be a "point forward". Chris Webber was a point forward in his Sac days.

[Fudge]

the definition of point forward?
Obviously, and what was the purpose? Sure, to prove your definition of a Point Forward, but what else? Get others' opinions? Don't even say "yes'", because everything they've said thus far, you've either responded by saying;

"Only in the playoffs", "Maybe", "He doesn't play ____ anymore", or "He's not the primary ball-handler on the team"

Like, who the **** cares if their a point forward or not? Geez.

[tmacyaokobe01]

You do not have to be the primary ballhandler to be a "point forward". Chris Webber was a point forward in his Sac days.
I didn't really watch too many sac games but i thought they ran the offense through webber not webber running the offense.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Obviously, and what was the purpose? Sure, to prove your definition of a Point Forward, but what else? Get others' opinions? Don't even say "yes'", because everything they've said thus far, you've either responded by saying;

"Only in the playoffs", "Maybe", "He doesn't play ____ anymore", or "He's not the primary ball-handler on the team"

Like, who the **** cares if their a point forward or not? Geez.
was there a point of cursing?

and obviously some people do care.

:hammerhead:

[LAZYBOY]

I didn't really watch too many sac games but i thought they ran the offense through webber not webber running the offense.

Webb played the position different because he was a PF not a SF like Pippen. He was known to be a point forward in the media, Adelman called him the point forward as well. It's hard to compare him with the others because players like Hill and Pippen played both swingman positions.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Webb played the position different because he was a PF not a SF like Pippen. He was known to be a point forward in the media, Adelman called him the point forward as well. It's hard to compare him with the others because players like Hill and Pippen played both swingman positions.
its kinda hard to compare due to the fact that Those players were always on the top of the key.

and webber was probably mostly in the post am i correct?

[LAZYBOY]

its kinda hard to compare due to the fact that Those players were always on the top of the key.

and webber was probably mostly in the post am i correct?


High post elbow area. But he did bring the ball on occasion.

[tmacyaokobe01]

High post elbow area. But he did bring the ball on occasion.
I just never really found him as one.

[tmacyaokobe01]

anymore point forwards anybody wanna argue or debate about?

[Pyro]

T-Mac

He and Lebron are perfect examples

[tmacyaokobe01]

T-Mac

He and Lebron are perfect examples
must i prove t-mac again?

[Selenium]

must i prove t-mac again?

Must I state again that your definitions and opinions are not absolute?

[Pyro]

must i prove t-mac again?
in 2005 - 06 season i remember seeing T-Mac always bringing the ball up the court

This year T-Mac had the most assists on the whole team

[Richie2k6]

must i prove t-mac again?
Dude... McGrady is a point forward. Don't you understand? Nobody here thinks he isn't except you.

[tmacyaokobe01]

in 2005 - 06 season i remember seeing T-Mac always bringing the ball up the court

This year T-Mac had the most assists on the whole team

04-05

Barry, James, Sura and Wesley were the primary ball-handler

05-06

Alston and Wesley were the primary Ball-handler

This year

Alston was.

and he split handling duties with Luther Head.

[Richie2k6]

04-05

Barry, James, Sura and Wesley were the primary ball-handler

05-06

Alston and Wesley were the primary Ball-handler

This year

Alston was.

and he split handling duties with Luther Head.
Not being the primary ball handler doesn't not make you a point forward.

[Pyro]

Dude... McGrady is a point forward. Don't you understand? Nobody here thinks he isn't except you.
The best part of it is Mcgrady is on his avatar and he knows sh!t about him :lol:

[tmacyaokobe01]

Dude... McGrady is a point forward. Don't you understand? Nobody here thinks he isn't except you.
i've already counted so many facts everybody else has pointed out opinions.

Facts > opinions.

ok nobody here agrees?

neither way facts > opinions.

Opinions = Opinions

[tmacyaokobe01]

The best part of it is T-Mac is on his avatar and he knows sh!t about him :lol:
please read the last 8 pages

i've clearly proven t-mac isn't.

and by the way have you ever even found a link saying tracy mcgrady is a point forward?

i haven't ever you know why?

CAUSE HE ISN'T.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Not being the primary ball handler doesn't not make you a point forward.
actually primary ball handler usually does.

But bringing up the ball doesn't.

[Fudge]

What ****ing facts? You've said jack crap, nadda, except that Alston brings the ball up sometimes.

[Pyro]

04-05

Barry, James, Sura and Wesley were the primary ball-handler

05-06

Alston and Wesley were the primary Ball-handler

This year

Alston was.

and he split handling duties with Luther Head.
When Alston was injured for a good 2 first months of the 05-06 season who pretty much played the PG for the team and created for everyone else

DONT YOU DARE TELL ME WESLEY

[LAZYBOY]

You do not have to be the primary ballhandler to be a "point forward". .

I'm going to go ahead and quote myself.

[tmacyaokobe01]

What ****ing facts? You've said jack crap, nadda, except that Alston brings the ball up sometimes.
whats with you and cursing tough guy?

and no what other facts.

T-Mac isn't the primary ball-handler

T-Mac doesn't have the handles

T-MAc doesn't run the entire offense by himself.

[Richie2k6]

i've already counted so many facts everybody else has pointed out opinions.

Facts > opinions.

ok nobody here agrees?

neither way facts > opinions.

Opinions = Opinions
I agree facts > opinions. Problem is, I'm not stating opinions.

T-Mac doesn't have the handles

Doesn't have the handles? So you're implying Chris Webber is a better ball handler than Tracy McGrady? That's an insane statement to make.

T-MAc doesn't run the entire offense by himself.
Oh and Chris Webber does?

[tmacyaokobe01]

When Alston was injured for a good 2 first months of the 05-06 season who pretty much played the PG for the team and created for everyone else

DONT YOU DARE TELL ME WESLEY
Ok, Jon Barry and Wesley.

They played that season.

[tmacyaokobe01]

I agree facts > opinions. Problem is, I'm not stating opinions.
um.. yes you are.

the only fact is you've pointed out is Gibson and Hughes bring the ball up more.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Reasons why McGrady is not a point forward

1. Is not the primary Ball-handler on the team

2. Does not run the offense all by himself has Alston and Yao helping him.

3. Does not have the handles to be one he only has shooting guard handles

4. McGrady has been a guard nearly his whole career but is not a combo guard either when you think of point forwards you think of forwards.

5. got anymore arguments?
here you go again.

[Pyro]

Ok, Jon Barry and Wesley.

They played that season.
your telling me they were the primary ballhandlers for the team at that time :hammerhead:

[tmacyaokobe01]

I agree facts > opinions. Problem is, I'm not stating opinions.

Doesn't have the handles? So you're implying Chris Webber is a better ball handler than Tracy McGrady? That's an insane statement to make.

Oh and Chris Webber does?
First of all Webber is a power forward.

and was basically a low post point forward.

T-Mac = Shooting Guard

and sometimes plays small forward.
check out the TO's please.

[Fudge]

T-Mac isn't the primary ball-handler

T-Mac doesn't have the handles

T-MAc doesn't run the entire offense by himself.
And what makes LeBron a "primary" ball-handler? He isn't. Facts. Hughes brings it up too. Shouldn't that get in the way of your little definition of a "Point Forward"?

And that's just disgusting to say that T-Mac doesn't have handles. All this coming from the guy with "tmac" in his username. Dumbass. :lol:

[Richie2k6]

um.. yes you are.

the only fact is you've pointed out is Gibson and Hughes bring the ball up more.
What? I'm talking about McGrady. I haven't stated anything. I've just been telling you how wrong you are.

i've clearly proven t-mac isn't.
No, you choose to believe he isn't. You haven't proven anything except McGrady isn't the primary ball handler, as if that matters.

your telling me they were the primary ballhandlers for the team at that time
He's insane if he thinks that.

You have a picture of McGrady in your avatar but you don't know anything about his game. Pretty ironic.

[tmacyaokobe01]

your telling me they were the primary ballhandlers for the team at that time :hammerhead:

i also remember in thet 04-05 season when Sura wasn't playing

JON BARRY AND WESLEY WERE THE BACKUP POINT GUARD NOT MCGRADY.

[tmacyaokobe01]

And what makes LeBron a "primary" ball-handler? He isn't. Facts. Hughes brings it up too. Shouldn't that get in the way of your little definition of a "Point Forward"?

And that's just disgusting to say that T-Mac doesn't have handles. All this coming from the guy with "tmac" in his username. Dumbass. :lol:
LeBron brings the ball up frequently as for T-mac he doesn't.

T-Mac has shooting guard handles.

keep attacking me. your threatening me. LOL.

[LAZYBOY]

A point forward is a a forward with point gaurd skills. All these other "rules" you've come up with have nothing to do with it.

[tmacyaokobe01]

for the last time PRIMARY-BALL HANDLER matters.

CWebb brought up the ball often the guy said it himself.

Therefor he was the primary ball-handler sharing it with Christie.

[Fudge]

LeBron brings the ball up frequently as for T-mac he doesn't.

T-Mac has shooting guard handles.

keep attacking me. your threatening me. LOL.
"Frequently"? You said you have to bring the ball up everytime to be considered as a point forward? What's happening now, pointdexter?

What the **** is the difference between Shooting Guard handles and Point Forward handles? Your just.. ugh. A dumbass.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Answer me was Barry and Wesley the primary ballhandlers for the team at that time
When Alston was out?

Yeah, probably and i could recall tracy mcgrady being injured.

[Pyro]

i also remember in thet 04-05 season when Sura wasn't playing

JON BARRY AND WESLEY WERE THE BACKUP POINT GUARD NOT MCGRADY.
Answer me was Barry and Wesley the primary ballhandlers for the team at that time

You dont have to the PG for the team

Thats why the term is "Point Forward"

[Richie2k6]

What the hell is "shooting guard handles"? Is there some kind of univeristy that teaches you handles worthy of each position? What, does Iverson have point guard handles? What are center handles?

"Shooting guard handles." That doesn't even make sense.

[tmacyaokobe01]

"Frequently"? You said you have to bring the ball up everytime to be considered as a point forward? What's happening now, pointdexter?

What the **** is the difference between Shooting Guard handles and Point Forward handles? Your just.. ugh. A dumbass.
again with your attacks can you go a day without cursing at me?

Point guards traits...


hmm.. One of them would have to be POINT GUARD HANDLES.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Answer me was Barry and Wesley the primary ballhandlers for the team at that time

You dont have to the PG for the team

Thats why the term is "Point Forward"
Probably sharing it why?

are you gonna be pathetic and laugh?

[tmacyaokobe01]

What the hell is "shooting guard handles"? Is there some kind of univeristy that teaches you handles worthy of each position? What, does Iverson have point guard handles? What are center handles?

"Shooting guard handles." That doesn't even make sense.

Ok would this phrase be better.

Average Guard Handles?

T-Mac does not have above average ball-handling he use to in his magic days but they are over.

[Pyro]

When Alston was out?

Yeah, probably and i could recall tracy mcgrady being injured.
NOOOO

Alston was out for the first 2 months of the season when T-Mac was playing then i think around the time when Alston came back he got injured

T-Mac was the one with the ball in his hands pretty much 80% of the time

[Fudge]

again with your attacks can you go a day without cursing at me?

Point guards traits...


hmm.. One of them would have to be POINT GUARD HANDLES.
And can you have a day with actually having direct insight of a certain player? Or just .. basketball knowledge in general?

Get it through your ****ing head, that McGrady is a point forward. Don't say you have your so-called facts, which you don't.

[Richie2k6]

hmm.. One of them would have to be POINT GUARD HANDLES.
Larry Hughes is the point guard but doesn't have exceptional handles, and I wouldn't know if he has "point guard handles" because I don't know what in the name of God that is.

T-Mac does not have above average ball-handling he use to in his magic days but they are over.
Ha. Now I know I'm arguing with somebody that doesn't know anything about Tracy McGrady. You hearing this, Fudge? McGrady has the handles of an average guard.

[tmacyaokobe01]

NOOOO

Alston was out for the first 2 months of the season when T-Mac was playing then i think around the time when Alston came back he got injured

T-Mac was the one with the ball in his hands pretty much 80% of the time

T-Mac played 47 games.

The handles were shared between Wesley and Barry.

[tmacyaokobe01]

And can you have a day with actually having direct insight of a certain player? Or just .. basketball knowledge in general?

Get it through your ****ing head, that McGrady is a point forward. Don't say you have your so-called facts, which you don't.
again you are just stating your opinions.

You have said 0 facts.

[Pyro]

T-Mac played 47 games.

The handles were shared between Wesley and Barry.
and most of his games was in the start of the season like the first two months

trust me I got screwed with him on my fantasy team that year :banghead:

[tmacyaokobe01]

Reasons why McGrady is not a point forward

1. Is not the primary Ball-handler on the team

2. Does not run the offense all by himself has Alston and Yao helping him.

3. Does not have the handles to be one he only has shooting guard handles

4. McGrady has been a guard nearly his whole career but is not a combo guard either when you think of point forwards you think of forwards.

5. got anymore arguments?

must i do this again?

[tmacyaokobe01]

and most of his games was in the start of the season like the first two months

trust me I got screwed with him on my fantasy team that year :banghead:
that sucks you must of also gotten confused with him being a point forward.

:hammerhead:

[Richie2k6]

T-Mac played 47 games.

The handles were shared between Wesley and Barry.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Dude, you say "the handles were shared" like handles are trading cards. How can you even define having handles or how much you handle the ball? You're so... I can't even describe it. Unbelievably blunt and to the point. "They share the handles". Easily the funniest thing I've heard all day.

:oldlol:

[Fudge]

again you are just stating your opinions.

You have said 0 facts.
Facts? You should be the last one talking about "facts". Let's see your genius facts again? I'll try to make an accurate guess. Here..

1) He isn't the primary ball-handler.
2) He doesn't bring the ball up everytime.
3) The offense isn't designed around him.

All that replicates around number 1. No diffy. Say something new, bro. Sound like your still in elementary, can't expect much.

[Pyro]

that sucks you must of also gotten confused with him being a point forward.

:hammerhead:
All im saying is that he is 100% capable of being a Point Forward at any given time and that he was a point foward when Alston was injured

[tmacyaokobe01]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Dude, you say "the handles were shared" like handles are trading cards. How can you even define having handles or how much you handle the ball? You're so... I can't even describe it. Unbelievably blunt and to the point. "They share the handles". Easily the funniest thing I've heard all day.

:oldlol:
i'm glad i made your day.

and i'm glad

and i'm upset i have to tear down your day by proving to you t-mac isn't a point forward.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Facts? You should be the last one talking about "facts". Let's see your genius facts again? I'll try to make an accurate guess. Here..

1) He isn't the primary ball-handler.
2) He doesn't bring the ball up everytime.
3) The offense isn't designed around him.

All that replicates around number 1. No diffy. Say something new, bro. Sound like your still in elementary, can't expect much.
sounds like i said enough and you can't think of garbage.

[tmacyaokobe01]

All im saying is that he is 100% capable of being a Point Forward at any given time and that he was a point foward when Alston was injured
capable but has never played it i don't think so you can think that but is it a fact.

Don't think so.

[Fudge]

sounds like i said enough and you can't think of garbage.
And that's what I ****ing thought, kiddo. :oldlol:

[Richie2k6]

It's pretty obvious we're dealing with a narrow-minded, unintelligent being here. I think it's safe to say he doesn't care about anything else but his own "facts". I think I'm done here for the most part. Oh and don't think you're right, man. I just can't find a way to get info into your head, so I give up. It's not like you're actually correct or anything, so don't feel too good about yourself.

I really have to stop arguing with people with poor grammar. It usually leads to the person not being smart. In this case, that thoery is correct.

[Pyro]

capable but has never played it i don't think so you can think that but is it a fact.

Don't think so.
Im trying to fu#kin explain to you that he did play Point Forward when Alston was injured

[Selenium]

I have stated 0 facts.

Fixed.

You're delusional. Do you know what a "fact" is? I mean, seriously.

[Richie2k6]

Im trying to fu#kin explain to you that he did play Point Forward when Alston was injured
No point in trying to tell him anything. He's close-minded and doesn't think anybody is right but him. He's stubborn and too self confident to the point where he's gone insane. It's safe to just walk away. Let him feel good about himself. Let him go to sleep thinking he's right. Anything to make him stop spewing garbage.

[tmacyaokobe01]

seems like i proved you all wrong.

[tmacyaokobe01]

And that's what I ****ing thought, kiddo. :oldlol:
cursing?

grow up your not a tough guy.

you have stated 0 facts i win.

[Fudge]

cursing?

grow up your not a tough guy.

you have stated 0 facts i win.
:roll: Oh, Stop it.

[tmacyaokobe01]

:roll: Oh, Stop it.

name a point forward fact.

i doubt you'd be able too. :roll:

By the way i've never even seen t-mac been called a point forward on the internet or by analysts.

[Selenium]

seems like i proved you all wrong.

Now you're just trolling. Ah well, moving on...

Edit - One more dip**** to add to my 'ignore' list. It isn't often that you run into people whom are ignorant of their own ignorance.

Edit -
Point forward is an unofficial playing position in basketball for those who share the attributes of both a point guard and a forward.

A point forward is usually described as a forward (either a small forward or a power forward) who possesses the attributes of a point guard. A point forward can bring the ball up court and direct a play, however, their size also causes match-up problems as bulkier forwards may not want to guard a point forward around the perimeter constantly. Point forwards usually pass-first and shoot-second

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_forward

[tmacyaokobe01]

Now you're just trolling. Ah well, moving on...
Stating facts is trolling.
please
:roll:

[tmacyaokobe01]

To end this thread since nobody has stated any facts.

Tracy McGrady is not a point forward.

[Fudge]

This guy should get perma-banned for pissing everyone off. Can you be this stupid? Well, can you?

One question, don't feel offended, but are you from across-seas? Asia particularly? Simple yes or no question, that's all.

[IceMan2]

The TRUE definition of Point Foward if no one has said it already


A Foward that plays the Point.

Pointguard comes from a guard that plays the point. Point foward is a foward that plays the point. He doesn't have to do it all game, or even a majority, but he has to do it occasionaly, and he is a Point Foward. A foward that plays the point is a point-foward. McGrady is a Point-Foward


End of Thread

[tmacyaokobe01]

This guy should get perma-banned for pissing everyone off. Can you be this stupid? Well, can you?

One question, don't feel offended, but are you from across-seas? Asia particularly? Simple yes or no question, that's all.

No, I am not.

I'm guessing you probably are.

Pissing you off?

Proving facts is not pissing anybody off.

if i get banned because of this it would be by far the stupidest thing ever.

[tmacyaokobe01]

The TRUE definition of Point Foward if no one has said it already


A Foward that plays the Point.

Pointguard comes from a guard that plays the point. Point foward is a foward that plays the point. He doesn't have to do it all game, or even a majority, but he has to do it occasionaly, and he is a Point Foward. A foward that plays the point is a point-foward. McGrady is a Point-Foward


End of Thread
McGrady doesn't play point guard.

so..No. You fail.

[IceMan2]

McGrady doesn't play point guard.

so..No. You fail.
You didn't read? I am not talking about playing PG, I am talking about playing Point-Foward. He has played the Point before and does so occasionally. If he does it occasionally he is a Point-Foward. If he doesn't play it occasionally, he isn't a Point-Foward. Majority doesn't matter. End of story

[tmacyaokobe01]

You didn't read? I am not talking about playing PG, I am talking about playing Point-Foward. He has played the Point before and does so occasionally. If he does it occasionally he is a Point-Foward. If he doesn't play it occasionally, he isn't a Point-Foward. Majority doesn't matter. End of story
LOL majority with no facts?


LOL, what a bunch of idiots.

T-Mac doesn't play and has never played it.

i think some of you need to lay off the crack or whatever.

[melvinthompson]

A point forward is a forward that can play point...duh

[Fudge]

No, I am not.
Ok :rolleyes:


I'm guessing you probably are.
Nope. East Rutherford born and raised.


Pissing you off?

Proving facts is not pissing anybody off.
One more question. How did you prove facts? Seriously, we've been wondering for about.. let's say an hour. You haven't proved jack**** you ****ing elementary schooled idiot who can't take the pressure of him being trashed like crazy. You know ****, take that as a ****ing compliment you ****ing grade-schooled assclown. Did you ever, I mean ever, admit anything in your 8 years of wreckless breathing? Answer my ****ing question before responding to this ****ing **** you ****ing dumbass.


if i get banned because of this it would be by far the smartest thing ever.
:applause:

[tmacyaokobe01]

Ok :rolleyes:


Nope. East Rutherford born and raised.


One more question. How did you prove facts? Seriously, we've been wondering for about.. let's say an hour. You haven't proved jack**** you ****ing elementary schooled idiot who can't take the pressure of him being trashed like crazy. You know ****, take that as a ****ing compliment you ****ing grade-schooled assclown. Did you ever, I mean ever, admit anything in your 8 years of wreckless breathing? Answer my ****ing question before responding to this ****ing **** you ****ing dumbass.


:applause:
LOL, reading isn't your best subject is it?

but cursing is?

ROFL:roll: :lol:

dude T-Mac is not a point forward some may agree some may DEAL WITH IT.

you haven't had link or proof or garbage.

You have failed in all your arguments.

[IceMan2]

LOL majority with no facts?


LOL, what a bunch of idiots.

T-Mac doesn't play and has never played it.

i think some of you need to lay off the crack or whatever.
I didn't say he played it most of the time or majority of the time.


I said he played it occasionally? Agree or Disagree? McGrady plays the Point for his team occasionally. Not rarely or majority of the time, but occasionally

[tmacyaokobe01]

A point forward is a forward that can play point...duh
Then many people can play point forward lol.

[tmacyaokobe01]

I didn't say he played it most of the time or majority of the time.


I said he played it occasionally? Agree or Disagree? McGrady plays the Point for his team occasionally. Not rarely or majority of the time, but occasionally
more like never.

lay off the crack dude.

T-Mac is not a point guard and does not play it.

[melvinthompson]

more like never.

lay off the crack dude.

T-Mac is not a point guard and does not play it.

Question. Have you ever seen T-Mac dribble the ball up the court and initiate his team's offense?

[Fudge]

LOL, reading isn't your best subject is it?

but cursing is?
And basketbal isn't your best ideal fit, is it? Quit on this I love T-Mac crap, you obviously know nothing about him or basketball.


dude T-Mac is not a point forward some may agree some may DEAL WITH IT.
People agreed? Please show me. You know, you gotta have "proof". :oldlol:

[tmacyaokobe01]

Question. Have you ever seen T-Mac dribble the ball up the court and initiate his team's offense?

Dribble the ball up the court hardly.

initiate at times.

[tmacyaokobe01]

And basketbal isn't your best ideal fit, is it? Quit on this I love T-Mac crap, you obviously know nothing about him or basketball.


People agreed? Please show me. You know, you gotta have "proof". :oldlol:
in other forums. Where people are much smarter then you.

what facts have you showed me honestly?

ZERO, ZERO, ZERO.

[melvinthompson]

and list some point forwards today

this is basically my definition of point forward

A point forward, basically speaking, is a forward who brings the ball up and is the primary ball handler for a team that already has two distinct guards on the floor. There really haven't been that many, with Paul Pressey really being the first. Others were Pippen and Hill. James is really the only one today, although Odom and Diaw have been able to play it in a pinch (it was attempted to put Walker there, but his decision making was never really the best).


Point forwards today are
LeBron James, Boris Diaw, Lamar Odom, AK-47(in the playoffs), and possibly John Salmons

According to your definition of a point forward Boris Diaw definitely isn't one of them. He never brings the ball up the court considering they have Nash so by your logic Diaw isn't a point forward. Please remove him from your list.

[tmacyaokobe01]

According to your definition of a point forward Boris Diaw definitely isn't one of them. He never brings the ball up the court considering they have Nash so by your logic Diaw isn't a point forward. Please remove him from your list.
Why does it even matter anymore?

nobody is looking at the 1st page.

[melvinthompson]

Why does it even matter anymore?

nobody is looking at the 1st page.

My bad, I'll let you guys duke it out. Later.

[tmacyaokobe01]

this thread is over.

nobody is smart enough to prove to me that he is a point forward.

you are just listing a bunch of info without even proof.

[D]

this thread is over.

nobody is smart enough to prove to me that he is a point forward.

you are just listing a bunch of info without even proof.
:rolleyes:

So according to you, McGrady never brings the ball up and plays the point. That is what you said at the top of the thread? Is that what you really think?

[tmacyaokobe01]

[QUOTE=D

[Fudge]

in other forums. Where people are much smarter then you.

what facts have you showed me honestly?

ZERO, ZERO, ZERO.
That's not proof you idiot. Show me the link where they've actually agreed with you? Proof dumbass.

You know what, i'll end it here. Shut your stupid ass up for once.

1) He does create the offense, which makes him a point forward. He takes it up because he's more of an accurate passer than most guards on the Rockets' roster. He has great court vision and is not turnover-prone, which makes him undenyable on offense.
2) He takes the ball up because he'll get it to Yao as quickly as possible. Down low where as Alston would have a hard time getting the ball up at half court.
3) When he does take it up, he can pretty much do anything. As in, give it to Yao close to the paint, or kick it out to Battier for the corner tripple. Not to mention, he can create his own shot relieving all the stress from the above.
4) He makes good decisions on who to kick it out to. Rafer, however, from how much I watched him play, would jack the shot up, 3-pter particularly without even thinking if he should pass or not.

Won't be surprise if you'll respond. Your insight about the game is highly, highly limited.

[tmacyaokobe01]

That's not proof you idiot. Show me the link where they've actually agreed with you? Proof dumbass.

You know what, i'll end it here. Shut your stupid ass up for once.

1) He does create the offense, which makes him a point forward. He takes it up because he's more of an accurate passer than most guards on the Rockets' roster. He has great court vision and is not turnover-prone, which makes him undenyable on offense.
2) He takes the ball up because he'll get it to Yao as quickly as possible. Down low where as Alston would have a hard time getting the ball up at half court.
3) When he does take it up, he can pretty much do anything. As in, give it to Yao close to the paint, or kick it out to Battier for the corner tripple. Not to mention, he can create his own shot relieving all the stress from the above.
4) He makes good decisions on who to kick it out to. Rafer, however, from how much I watched him play, would jack the shot up, 3-pter particularly without even thinking if he should pass or not.

Won't be surprise if you'll respond. Your insight about the game is highly, highly limited.
create the offense?
doesn't even take it up again failed there.

doesn't take the ball up my goodness.

He is turnover prone because 3 per game in halfcourt set with 35 mpg is bad.

[tmacyaokobe01]

That's not proof you idiot. Show me the link where they've actually agreed with you? Proof dumbass.

You know what, i'll end it here. Shut your stupid ass up for once.

1) He does create the offense, which makes him a point forward. He takes it up because he's more of an accurate passer than most guards on the Rockets' roster. He has great court vision and is not turnover-prone, which makes him undenyable on offense.
2) He takes the ball up because he'll get it to Yao as quickly as possible. Down low where as Alston would have a hard time getting the ball up at half court.
3) When he does take it up, he can pretty much do anything. As in, give it to Yao close to the paint, or kick it out to Battier for the corner tripple. Not to mention, he can create his own shot relieving all the stress from the above.
4) He makes good decisions on who to kick it out to. Rafer, however, from how much I watched him play, would jack the shot up, 3-pter particularly without even thinking if he should pass or not.

Won't be surprise if you'll respond. Your insight about the game is highly, highly limited.
Again you failed.

your just a stubborn little loser.

So give up loser boy.

T-Mac is not a point forward

and thats not even an insult.

I'm not showing you that forum because i don't want an ******* like you posting there.

[Fudge]

create the offense?
doesn't even take it up again failed there.

doesn't take the ball up my goodness.

He is turnover prone because 3 per game in halfcourt set with 35 mpg is bad.
Do you watch Rocket games? Are you seriously a t-mac fan? Does your username indicate the players you know least about? Hope so.
HINT: 07-08 season is coming, better watch a bit more.

Reported, Ignore List. Good night.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Do you watch Rocket games? Are you seriously a t-mac fan? Does your username indicate the players you know least about? Hope so.
HINT: 07-08 season is coming, better watch a bit more.

Reported, Ignore List. Good night.
yes, and you don't have to ignore me.

After posting here for a day i remember why i left.

stubborn people like you.

but i ain't talking to you anymore.

i'm sure theres much smarter people then you.

[Richie2k6]

stubborn people like you.
That's a hypocritical statement. And why is it that people think they're right often steal my comments? It's awkward, and always happens. I called you stubborn a while back, and now you're calling others stubborn, when you're stubborn.

Fascinating, really.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Good god this forum is still running?? Why can't you just agree to the fact that T-mac is a point forward. Everyone is saying it. You don't even give the other argument a chance you just repeat the same thing over and over. Lord.:hammerhead:

[D]

never plays the point yes.

He sometimes brings the ball up not much. Not as Frequently as point forwards are suppose to.

Lets Face is.

There has only been 4 Legit Point Forwards in the history of the NBA.


Scottie Pippen, Grant Hill, LeBron James and Paul Pressey.

Penny played Point guard most of the time but can be considered one.

You must have never heard of John Havlicek then. DON isn't suprised though based on your intelligence from this thread. DON was just watching an old Jazz vs. Rocket playoff clip, seems like McGrady was bringing the ball up and running the offense quite a bit late 2nd early 3rd.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ntwYvRLha8c
Here is another link, and the website (USATODAY) mentions McGrady as a Point Foward.
http://fantasybasketball.usatoday.com/content/player_news.asp?sport=NBA&id=473&line=82218

Just a couple of proof you were asking about. But once again its not worth arguing with someone with as low intelligence as you.

[tmacyaokobe01]

[QUOTE=D

[tmacyaokobe01]

Good god this forum is still running?? Why can't you just agree to the fact that T-mac is a point forward. Everyone is saying it. You don't even give the other argument a chance you just repeat the same thing over and over. Lord.:hammerhead:
why does it matter to you so much?

hes not bad if he isn't a point forward to me.

Tracy McGrady is a great scorer and a great playmaker.
Not a point forward simple.

[Richie2k6]

Yes, he is a point forward. Get over it.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Yes, he is a point forward. Get over it.
0 facts and 1 opinion.

i've proved he isn't.

get over it your not gonna die.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

why does it matter to you so much?

hes not bad if he isn't a point forward to me.

Tracy McGrady is a great scorer and a great playmaker.
Not a point forward simple.
He also has great handles, can and does run the offense and brings the ball up the floor frequently even though I don't understand why that matter so much. So yes he is a point forward. If you can't except the fact that you are wrong well thats your problem.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

0 facts and 1 opinion.

i've proved he isn't.

get over it your not gonna die.
Almost everyone that posted in this thread said that T-mac is a point forward so it more like 30 opinions.

What have you proved?? I haven't seen any proof.

Why don't you just admit you're wrong you aren't going to die either.

[tmacyaokobe01]

He also has great handles, can and does run the offense and brings the ball up the floor frequently even though I don't understand why that matter so much. So yes he is a point forward. If you can't except the fact that you are wrong well thats your problem.

please read the other pages THANKS.

He doesn't bring the ball up frequently - Failed


you failed again.

SO GIVE UP

I DON'T CARE IF THESE PEOPLE DON'T THINK HE IS.

[tmacyaokobe01]

He also has average guard handles so you failed again.

you wanna stop failing if you wanna prove something?

[os418]

Well there is a reason it called a point forward not a point guard, if he brought up the ball every time and amde every play he would be a point guard. But he is a player that could play forward and has the ability to play the point position well, which makes him a point forward.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Well there is a reason it called a point forward not a point guard, if he brought up the ball every time and amde every play he would be a point guard. But he is a player that could play forward and has the ability to play the point position well, which makes him a point forward.
Then there would be a lot of point forwards today.

M. Redd
Kobe
RJ
Deng

there would be tons.

[Richie2k6]

Why do you keep insisting I've stated opinions? What opinion have I given? I've given nothing but facts. You want to know why McGrady is a point forward? I'll tell you.

A point forward is a forward who has point guard characteristics and traits that allow him to run an offense LIKE a point guard. You do not have to bring the ball up the damn court to be a point forward. And to your Lamar Odom statement, sorry, you're wrong. You said be brings the ball up the court a lot? No, he doesn't. That's not how the triangle offense works. Do you even know the slightest thing about the Lakers' offensive gameplan, kid? The triangle offense consists of a guard bringing the ball up the court, performing a lag pass to another player, then the offensive can initiate from then on. That's one of the ways it works. A GUARD brings it up the court, a.k.a not Lamar Odom. Lamar Odom is a forward. A point forward to be exact. How come? Because he is a forward with point guard characteristics. He can run an offense, is a good passer, is a playmaker and is a ball handler. It's pretty clear that you need to study the triangle offense and go learn something about it, because your foolish thoeries are far from correct.

And to your comment about the point forward having to be the primary ball handler, that's a load of bull, quite frankly. Primary ball handler? Here's a shot at your foolish Boris Diaw comment. You claim all point forwards are primary ball handlers - Boris Diaw is clearly NOT the primary ball handler. Go ask a 3 year old baby on the street and even he'll tell you that it's clearly undoubtably obvious that Steve Nash handles the rock more than any other Phoenix Sun by a mile. You say point forwards have to be primary ball handlers, but Boris Diaw isn't.

And what's all this about "point guard handles"? You say McGrady has shooting guard handles? What is "shooting guard handles"? You have a picture of McGrady in your avatar, but you don't know anything about his game. McGrady is an excellent ball handler who hardly turns it over. He handles the ball probably more than Rafer Alston, thus making him the primary ball handler in your eyes. He doesn't turn it over much, and he's shown his ball-handling capabilities on the Magic and on the Rockets. he even played all 5 positions in high school, only furthering the fact that he has experience running and offense. Funny how you say you've been stating facts, when you haven't. You've been stating what you THINK are facts, but are really stuff you don't know anything about.

You said Andrei Kirilenko brought the ball up the court sometimes for the Jazz in the playoffs. But you said a point forward has to be the primary ball handler, which he isn't. It's obvious Deron Williams. Since you claim you need to be the primary ball handler to be a point forward, but AK isn't, how come he's a point forward to you? Got your "facts" all messed up now, huh? A point forward does NOT have to bring the ball up the court and does NOT need to be the primary ball handler.

You said Lebron James brings the ball up the court a lot for the Cavaliers. It's pretty obvious that Hughes and Gibson do it more than him. Do you even know that bringing up the ball is the point guard's job? It does NOT matter who brings the ball up the court. A point guard is SUPPOSED to do it, however. It's part of their role on the court. The moment they pass that halfcourt line, they can give it to whoever the hell they want. McGrady does bring the ball up the court "frequently", just not as much as Alston because IT'S ALSTON'S JOB TO DO THAT. To be a point forward, all you need are three things: good passing ability, the ability to run an offense thoroughly, and good ball handling abillity. Bringing the ball up the court and being a "primary ball handler" has nothing to do with anything. Does Odom bring the ball up the court? No. Smush Parker or Kobe Bryant do. Is Odom the primary ball handler? No. Kobe Bryant is. So by your logic, Lamar Odom isn't a point forward, but it's obvious he is. As long as you're a forward with good point guard characteristics, you're a point forward. Period.

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about point forwards:

Point forward is an unofficial playing position in basketball for those who share the attributes of both a point guard and a forward. A point forward is usually described as a forward (either a small forward or a power forward) who possesses the attributes of a point guard. A point forward can bring the ball up court and direct a play, however, their size also causes match-up problems as bulkier forwards may not want to guard a point forward around the perimeter constantly. Point forwards usually pass-first and shoot-second.

Notice how I bolded "CAN", because they CAN, they do NOT HAVE TO.

It could be argued that NBA legend Magic Johnson was a point forward. While officially being a point guard, Johnson was 6'9", and was among the league leaders in assists and rebounding. It could also be argued that NBA star LeBron James is a point forward. James is 6'8", but brings the ball up court rather frequently for the Cleveland Cavaliers. Even when James does not take the ball up court, he creates plays and sets up his teammates for a shot.
The best examples of point forwards are Magic Johnson, Paul Pressey, Scottie Pippen, Grant Hill, LeBron James, Anfernee Hardaway, Lamar Odom, Antoine Walker, Oliver Miller and Boris Diaw.


Even when he does NOT, that still makes him a point forward, same for McGrady and Odom. And the only reason McGrady isn't on that list of good point forwards is because he primarily played shooting GUARD for the Rockets in the '06-'07 season.

DON even gave you some tape of the Rockets with mcGrady distributing and ballhandling, yet you're still immature enough to not care and resort to calling him an idiot. That usually means you're in denial and you don't know what else to say, so you resort to profanity. In other words, you're pathetic. Perhaps grow up and learn to accept people's facts and stop ignoring them and overlapping them with your poorly thought-out thoeries.

So as you can see, you've been bombarded with the facts you so heavily desired. Now that you actually know what a point forward is, you should probably go do some more research and watch some more tape of Tracy McGrady and Lamar Odom before you come here trying to tell people what a point forward is with barely any hardcore facts to back up your theories. My hands hurt from typing now.

Tracy McGrady is a point forward.

[tmacyaokobe01]

thats what happens when you have too much free time.

AK-47 was the point forward when Deron was on the bench.

Tracy McGrady doesn't frequently bring up the ball i see Odom bring it up frequently.

richie2k6 = on crack.

give me a link proving he is.

give me a link saying Tracy McGrady is a point forward, i doubt you'd be able too.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

He also has average guard handles so you failed again.

you wanna stop failing if you wanna prove something?
You're so quick to say stuff like he has average guard handles, then later you say you proved things give me proof of how he has average guard handles. T-mac and Kobe have about the same ball handling skills so tell me does Kobe have average guard handles?

[tmacyaokobe01]

You're so quick to say stuff like he has average guard handles, then later you say you proved things give me proof of how he has average guard handles. T-mac and Kobe have about the same ball handling skills so tell me does Kobe have average guard handles?
Kobe has point guard handles.

IF you don't believe me you don't watch Kobe.

your just being very bias.

[Richie2k6]

Man... you're SO immature it's not even funny.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Man... you're SO immature it's not even funny.
because i don't agree and supported facts doesn't make me immature.

:rollingeyes:

[Richie2k6]

Haha this kid is so pathetic and futile with his "facts" that he made the same topic somewhere else to see what people thought. :roll:

http://www.bballworld.us/forum/index.php?showtopic=32376

Kidm give it up. McGrady is a point forward. You're immature and in denial. Seriously, learn to admit you're wrong.

because i don't agree and supported facts doesn't make me immature.
You haven't given facts except "I see Odom bring it up frequently". Where the hell is the fact in that? And you know what makes you immature? Saying I'm on crack. You need to grow up. I swear it's like arguing with a 5 year old. In one ear and out the other. So unbelivably childish it's not even funny.

[Richie2k6]

Everybody is saying he is except you, even on the BBallWorld. Nobody is agreeing with you and everybody is proving you wrong on both forums and saying he is a point forward, yet you still don't get it. Man you're like a brick wall. Seriously, grow up. It's amazing how childish you are, seriously.

I'm out.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Everybody is saying he is except you, even on the BBallWorld. Nobody is agreeing with you and everybody is proving you wrong on both forums and saying he is a point forward, yet you still don't get it. Man you're like a brick wall. Seriously, grow up. It's amazing how childish you are, seriously.

I'm out.
yeah and if everybody said Ray Allen had no jumpshot would you agree then?

stop caring about your popularity in school and start knowing basketball.

i'm sure your a loner anyways.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Kobe has point guard handles.

IF you don't believe me you don't watch Kobe.

your just being very bias.
Yes he does have point guard handles I was wait for you to say that. He used to cross people a lot in his younger days so did McGrady now both of them don't do it very often. Your ignorant if you don't think that T-mac has point guard or close to point guard handles. You keep asking for proof, show me a link that says T-mac only has average guard handles.

[tmacyaokobe01]

Yes he does have point guard handles I was wait for you to say that. He used to cross people a lot in his younger days so did McGrady now both of them don't do it very often. Your ignorant if you don't think that T-mac has point guard or close to point guard handles. You keep asking for proof, show me a link that says T-mac only has average guard handles.
check out his TO's.

3 per game.

thats terrible for a HALFCOURT SET team.