Giannis or Dirk?

[DoctorP]

Giannis or Dirk, which of these Alpha, title-winning power-forwards do you pick head-to-head?

[DoctorP]

:rockon::rockon::rockon:

[RRR3]

Are you asking who’s better or who’s higher on the GOAT list?

[Airupthere]

Are you asking who’s better or who’s higher on the GOAT list?

Yes, you need to clarify this OP because it is critical to RRR3's answer >>> Lebron

[HunterSThompson]

dirk because he translates to any era. giannis outside of this era and the 50s/60s would just be another amare Stoudemire

[DoctorP]

Are you asking who’s better or who’s higher on the GOAT list?

pick one. period. no excuses.

[DoctorP]

I'm going Dirk simply because he was a little more clutch. But it needs further research.

[Manny98]

Depends on the other five players

If your team has a lot of shooters then Giannis if not then Dirk

Both top tier talents, Giannis being a two way guy who can dominate on both ends, Dirk being one of the best shooters ever and overall the better offensive player than Giannis

I feel like Dirk can be slotted into any team you're going to have success whilst Giannis requires shooters so because of that I'd lean towards Dirk

[DoctorP]

Giannis w/o Middleton doesn't win a title.

Same with Dirk w/o Kidd, Terry, etc

[DoctorP]

Giannis def has the defensive edge.

[Airupthere]

I'm biased for now since Dirk is one of my all time favorite players. Giannis is still young and has a lot to go on. He may end up being goat, or not. But I'm sure he'd be in that conversation. My view may change at some point.

[Bronbron23]

Giannis or Dirk, which of these Alpha, title-winning power-forwards do you pick head-to-head?

Greek for sure. Offensively it's close but greek is way better when it comes to the other half of the game.

[MadDog]

Greek is better. His 2-way play beats Dirk's efficient scoring - which also had crazy impact.

[houston]

Greek even though I cut for Dirk but he did have Marion and Kidd. Giannis beat Nets team with Harden and Durant with Griffin in the starting line up.

[Doomsday Dallas]

I love Dirk, but c'mon... Giannis is clearly the better player

[Mask the Embiid]

The black one

[Pointguard]

Giannis or Dirk, which of these Alpha, title-winning power-forwards do you pick head-to-head?

Head to Head. Giannis scores more than Dirk does: Regular season or finals. Plus his defense is on another level. Giannis is going to get around Dirk when he wants to. Career wise its Dirk but head to head it isn't.

[Gougou]

I respect Dirk a lot, his offensive game is incredible.

But I kinda want to go with the Greek Freak, his defense is miles ahead better than Dirk, he also scores more than Dirk, he just doesn't have a midrange, 3pt, high % free-throw (that game 6 doesn't count!) like Dirk. So in term of an all-round player, Giannis is better and he is only getting started.

[Jasper]

more consistent points Dirk...
more rounded player Giannis

Giannis all day.

[JoshCoward]

Wow.. I'm surprised so many people going for Giannis... Dirk single handedly carried that Mavs team against Kobe Lakers, Durant Thunder and Lebron's Heat... and yes these teams were ALL HEALTHY. Kidd, Marion, Terry all contributed in different ways but that goes for Middleton, Turker and Jrue Holiday. There were talks of Middleton being FMVP half way, Dirk was always the MVP for that Mavs team. Until Giannis can prove with another ring, who's championship was greater? Dirk's. No doubt.

[bizil]

GOAT wise, EASILY Dirk! Current Giannis vs. peak-prime Dirk, EASILY Giannis! The thing about Giannis is he caught TOO MUCH HEAT! I get pointing out his flaws. BUT The MAIN THING in sports is frankly NUMBERS AND RESULTS! As great as Dirk was, he NEVER was a multi dimensional star like Giannis. Dirk was truly ONLY GREAT at one thing. And that's scoring the rock. Hell he revolutionized the PF spot. A 7 foot 50-40-90 phenom who was a true alpha dog scorer. That type of PF or 7 footer for that matter had NEVER been seen before! A huge reason why the center position took a dive IS BECAUSE those guys wanted to be like Dirk! But those guys COULDN'T be Dirk!

With Giannis, u get great scoring,passing, rebounding, and defense for his position. From there, likely has the most positional versatility two way wise of all time. Right there with KG. And for the perimeter players, Lebron. Sorry, just don't see a case for Dirk peak-prime wise over current Giannis. Who hasn't even hit the pinnacle of his game yet!

Only KG and AD could be compared to Giannis IN TERMS of being positionless 7 foot players. In an all time PF draft, those three along with Duncan and Barkley should be the top 5 picks in my opinion. All Bucks needed were the right pieces to fit around Giannis. THEY DID THAT! Despite his shortcomings, he WON A RING!! That's what it's all about!

[kawhileonard2]

Germany vs Greece. Hitler vs Alexander is what this comes down to.

[Drygon]

dirk because he translates to any era. giannis outside of this era and the 50s/60s would just be another amare Stoudemire

Giannis would be dominant in any era. He's a modern day Shaq.

[plowking]

Giannis is a more consistent player.

Having a game predicated on highly efficient shots is important.
I legitimately think Giannis only had 2 poor games all season; against Boston. Then consider the defensive end and how much he protects the paint, and the help defense you get from him.

One of the best players of all time, and that was the case even a year or two ago, and he is only getting better. Would be great in any era. Who is stopping a mobile 7 footer who dribbles like a guard and can overpower every PF in the league? He is far too dynamic for anyone guarding him 1 through 5.

[Taurus]

Current Giannis is better than Dirk ever was

[John8204]

While I like Giannis he's got 13K points, Dirk is in the 30K club

[Jasper]

I'll take the Buck ...
Ahh if you know what I am talking about you know Dirk was a Buck before he was a Mav.
But head to head I'll take Giannis.
Trophy's he is already ahead of Dirk , even though Dirk in a career has more right now.

[FultzNationRISE]

Giannis is a more consistent player.

Having a game predicated on highly efficient shots is important.
I legitimately think Giannis only had 2 poor games all season; against Boston. Then consider the defensive end and how much he protects the paint, and the help defense you get from him.

One of the best players of all time, and that was the case even a year or two ago, and he is only getting better. Would be great in any era. Who is stopping a mobile 7 footer who dribbles like a guard and can overpower every PF in the league? He is far too dynamic for anyone guarding him 1 through 5.

Giannis is more consistent? :biggums:


The whole narrative around him right now is literally a Durant pinky toe away from being the complete opposite. He was widely considered a playoff choker up until that very fortunate break. Followed by one epic finals that now has everyone massively overreacting.

Of course if he adds a bunch more playoff series where he beasts the whole way thru like he did vs the Suns, then absolutely he'll deservedly be considered one of the best.

Right now people are being complete prisoners of the moment, crowning him off regular season stuff and basically ONE series where he was great start-to-finish. To me that's not consistency. I don't give him extra points because the great series he had happened to be the finals. It's still one series. I need more than that.

[tpols]

For Dirk to make his two Finals he had to go through LeBron, Wade (twice), Kobe, Duncan, Nash, Durant, Harden, Westbrook, Manu, Parker, Pau, Bosh, LMA, old shaq, and Brandon Roy.

Giannis to win went through Jimmy Butler, Durant, injured harden, injured Trae Young, devin Booker, and old Chris paul. And he did it with a better team. There are probably all time top 75-100 players you could plug in Giannis spot with that team and they pull it out. Jimmy Butler is probably top 80 all time and he definitely would have had a chance. Suns were a 1st round exit before AD got hurt. Lakers had absurd -300 odds going into the game before he got hurt. I remember because I was playing fanduel.

Give Giannis Dirks paths and he'd be completely ringless. Especially facing those stacked frontcourts who can guard the paint.

[expansionera]

dirk because he translates to any era. giannis outside of this era and the 50s/60s would just be another amare Stoudemire

Giannis would win eight straight rings in the weak 90s, only deterred by Hakeem’s Rockets :lol

[Gohan]

Im going with dirk actually i think hes far and away a better offensive player although giannis rawdogs him on defense

[Pointguard]

In an age of great efficient 7 footers that can shoot as efficiently or better than Dirk (AD, Embiid, Towns), they aren't even mentioned as true comp with Giannis. And those three all have more dimensions to their game than Dirk did. None of them have the PER that Giannis pulls off reg. season and/or playoffs in the same year. Giannis TS% is on par with any of them in RS or PS and his scoring is more dependable because he gets to the rim and in general he's highest scorer of the bunch. Giannis has the best defense and is the most versatile, complete player of the bunch. His big time accolades are also as good as Dirks.

Note: Embiid and AD more than likely can average 30 ppg like Giannis.

[FultzNationRISE]

n an age of great efficient 7 footers that can shoot as efficiently or better than Dirk (AD, Embiid, Towns), they aren't even mentioned as true comp with Giannis. And those three all have more dimensions to their game than Dirk did. None of them have the PER that Giannis pulls off reg. season and playoffs in the same year. Giannis TS% is on par with any of them in RS or PS and his scoring is more dependable because he gets to the rim and in general he's highest scorer of the bunch. Giannis has the best defense and is the most versatile, complete player of the bunch. His big time accolades are also as good as Dirks.

You... should probably leave.

[Pointguard]

You... should probably leave.

You should get a dictionary and then leave.

[Nike D'Antoni]

In terms of peak, definitely Giannis.
Career-wise? Dirk. But eventually, Giannis will pass that.


Dirk's ring also was far sweeter than Giannis, Beating Kobe & Phil Jackson's Lakers 4 - 0, Beating Durant - Westbrook - Harden, and then Miami's big three with Lebron.

[PeroAntic]

Its Giannis. Peak Dirk was a brilliant offensive player, but Giannis impacts the game in many more ways than Dirk. Physicality, playmaking, monster defense. Giannis hands down, as much as I love Dirk.

[HoopsNY]

I'm tempted to say Giannis but you can't ignore what Dirk was able to do against elite competition. Not only did Dirk have a title run that far exceeds any of Giannis' playoff runs (including his title run in 2021), but Dirk was up against elite players at his position, going toe to toe with the likes of Duncan, KG, Webber, Sheed, Amar'e, etc. For now, I'd have to go with Dirk.

[HoopsNY]

Its Giannis. Peak Dirk was a brilliant offensive player, but Giannis impacts the game in many more ways than Dirk. Physicality, playmaking, monster defense. Giannis hands down, as much as I love Dirk.

So did KG but Dirk's offensive acumen outweighed it IMO. It's one of the reasons why at this point I'd put him above Giannis. In addition, Giannis caught luck with KD's big foot on that line which allowed them overcome Brooklyn in the playoffs. I'd have to see a repeat performance of sorts from Giannis for me to be convinced that he's really as impactful when it matters the most.

[Smook A.]

Dirk was more skilled offensively, but Giannis is just a better overall player

[PeroAntic]

So did KG but Dirk's offensive acumen outweighed it IMO. It's one of the reasons why at this point I'd put him above Giannis. In addition, Giannis caught luck with KD's big foot on that line which allowed them overcome Brooklyn in the playoffs. I'd have to see a repeat performance of sorts from Giannis for me to be convinced that he's really as impactful when it matters the most.

Giannis is better than KG though, obviously.

[HoopsNY]

Giannis is better than KG though, obviously.

Yea, my point is that the difference in defense, while great, was even greater between KG and Dirk. And KG could still give you 25 points in an era far more defensive than this one.

I think that and the opponents he faced off should count for something, not to mention the tougher conference. In addition, Dirk took that team to the finals twice and won what was arguably a top 3 ring of all-time given his path to the title.

[dankok8]

Giannis for sure. I mean even just offensively one can make an argument for Giannis considering his superior passing and offensive rebounding. With defense taken into account, this isn't particularly close. For the record I would take Giannis over KG as well and I have KG over Dirk so there is a noticeable gap here.

[red1]

giannis is too big and athletic. he anchors your offense and your defense which makes up the massive difference in shooting that dirk brings to the table.


shaq skipped dwight and honored giannis with the title of the new superman. he gave him the title years ago because he was dominating the league in the paint and giannis improved massively since then. you cant stop him in the paint and it only takes one stride from the freethrow line before he can put up a lay-up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPNzrJ1utjE&ab_channel=DatBallaProductions

[ArbitraryWater]

Giannis probably.

Thats not a slight on Dirk.

Giannis is a near GOAT-level talent.

[HoopsNY]

Giannis for sure. I mean even just offensively one can make an argument for Giannis considering his superior passing and offensive rebounding. With defense taken into account, this isn't particularly close. For the record I would take Giannis over KG as well and I have KG over Dirk so there is a noticeable gap here.

Giannis plays in an era that is not only perimeter friendly, but also where the paint isn't packed do to spacing. We saw the difference almost immediately with the rule changes in '05 for Dirk:

'04 Dirk: 22/9/3 on 56% TS%
'05 Dirk: 26/10/3 on 58% TS%

We also saw how the refs catered to Giannis in the finals where Ayton was frustrated and IIRC, said that you can't even touch Giannis. It was pitiful how refs were calling that series. How does that affect Giannis in an era (at least up to 2005 but even after), where you have more bodies in the paint and you have more aggressive defenders?

We saw Giannis struggle against guys like Butler and Kawhi, so how about KG, Duncan, O'Neal, Wallace, etc with a swarm of double teams from other great defensive bigs or even SFs like Artest and LeBron? Not saying he becomes obsolete, but a little context should be offered.

In addition, KG isn't above Dirk no matter how complete of a player he was. He was simply a choker. Look what happened in 2002 against Dirk. Dallas swept Minnesota, and Dirk outplayed KG decisively.

'02 Dirk vs. MIN: 33/16/1/3/1 on 69% TS%
'02 KG vs. DAL: 24/19/5/2/2 on 51% TS%

In the deciding game, what happened?

Game 3 Dirk: 39/17/0/3 on 74% TS%
Game 3 KG: 22/17/5/2 on 48% TS%

KG was too busy getting outplayed by his teammates like Anthony Peeler.

Dirk was known for this level of play. He did similar at times against Duncan, Camby, Webber, Sheed, Pau, etc. And not to mention he did it in a better conference for a longer period of time. You needed a higher quality of guys around KG to get to the finals, let alone winning it, than you did with Dirk.

We can also remember that Dirk took his team to the finals in 2006. But even if you don't consider that, then I think Dirk's 2011 title is more impressive than Giannis' in 2021. I will admit, though, that Giannis has time. So things can change in this conversation for me within the next 2-3 years pending what happens with MIL.

[dankok8]

Giannis plays in an era that is not only perimeter friendly, but also where the paint isn't packed do to spacing. We saw the difference almost immediately with the rule changes in '05 for Dirk:

'04 Dirk: 22/9/3 on 56% TS%
'05 Dirk: 26/10/3 on 58% TS%

We also saw how the refs catered to Giannis in the finals where Ayton was frustrated and IIRC, said that you can't even touch Giannis. It was pitiful how refs were calling that series. How does that affect Giannis in an era (at least up to 2005 but even after), where you have more bodies in the paint and you have more aggressive defenders?

We saw Giannis struggle against guys like Butler and Kawhi, so how about KG, Duncan, O'Neal, Wallace, etc with a swarm of double teams from other great defensive bigs or even SFs like Artest and LeBron? Not saying he becomes obsolete, but a little context should be offered.

In addition, KG isn't above Dirk no matter how complete of a player he was. He was simply a choker. Look what happened in 2002 against Dirk. Dallas swept Minnesota, and Dirk outplayed KG decisively.

'02 Dirk vs. MIN: 33/16/1/3/1 on 69% TS%
'02 KG vs. DAL: 24/19/5/2/2 on 51% TS%

In the deciding game, what happened?

Game 3 Dirk: 39/17/0/3 on 74% TS%
Game 3 KG: 22/17/5/2 on 48% TS%

KG was too busy getting outplayed by his teammates like Anthony Peeler.

Dirk was known for this level of play. He did similar at times against Duncan, Camby, Webber, Sheed, Pau, etc. And not to mention he did it in a better conference for a longer period of time. You needed a higher quality of guys around KG to get to the finals, let alone winning it, than you did with Dirk.

We can also remember that Dirk took his team to the finals in 2006. But even if you don't consider that, then I think Dirk's 2011 title is more impressive than Giannis' in 2021. I will admit, though, that Giannis has time. So things can change in this conversation for me within the next 2-3 years pending what happens with MIL.

First of all let me start by saying no one hates on this era more than me! :oldlol: And Giannis' game is ugly as hell but effectiveness beats style any day of the week.

I think people who put Dirk > KG don't understand the level of defensive impact KG had. He literally may be the GOAT defender except Russell.

The reason I have KG over Dirk is simple. Look at it this way. Post-prime KG from 2010-2012 was averaging pedestrian offensive numbers like an average starter. Based on defense alone he was a top 15ish player in the league. In fact his defensive impact metrics like DRAPM, DPIPM etc. were best in the world in those years even over DPOY Dwight Howard who was himself a historically great defender. And watching him no one disrupted more plays than KG. The point is if a post-prime KG is THAT GOOD based just on defense alone since his offense was average how good is prime KG with a perhaps unsurpassed motor and offense that gives you 24 ppg on solid efficiency, terrific offensive rebounding and great passing and ballhandling. Offense isn't just scoring and in those other eras KG destroys Dirk. No way the offensive gap can be as big as the defensive gap.

And Giannis is KG on steroids. No jumper and just a wee-bit worse defensive fundamentals but his athleticism makes up for it and then some. Even if we shave off 2 ppg and 2% in efficiency due to an easier era, Giannis is still a significantly better offensive player than KG and almost the defender KG is so by default Giannis > Dirk.

I had some epic debates with DMAVS on KG vs. Dirk. Great guy. I wish he posted more on here.

[coastalmarker99]

First of all let me start by saying no one hates on this era more than me! :oldlol: And Giannis' game is ugly as hell but effectiveness beats style any day of the week.

I think people who put Dirk > KG don't understand the level of defensive impact KG had. He literally may be the GOAT defender except Russell.

The reason I have KG over Dirk is simple. Look at it this way. Post-prime KG from 2010-2012 was averaging pedestrian offensive numbers like an average starter. Based on defense alone he was a top 15ish player in the league. In fact his defensive impact metrics like DRAPM, DPIPM etc. were best in the world in those years even over DPOY Dwight Howard who was himself a historically great defender. And watching him no one disrupted more plays than KG. The point is if a post-prime KG is THAT GOOD based just on defense alone since his offense was average how good is prime KG with a perhaps unsurpassed motor and offense that gives you 24 ppg on solid efficiency, terrific offensive rebounding and great passing and ballhandling. Offense isn't just scoring and in those other eras KG destroys Dirk. No way the offensive gap can be as big as the defensive gap.

And Giannis is KG on steroids. No jumper and just a wee-bit worse defensive fundamentals but his athleticism makes up for it and then some. Even if we shave off 2 ppg and 2% in efficiency due to an easier era, Giannis is still a significantly better offensive player than KG and almost the defender KG is so by default Giannis > Dirk.

I had some epic debates with DMAVS on KG vs. Dirk. Great guy. I wish he posted more on here.


Hakeem is better than KG on defence any day of the week.

Same with Wilt.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF_ehaEogEY


From the video footage that was available, it seems that Garnett actually avoided guarding Dirk for large stretches.

To me, that is just as bad as actually getting lit up as the primary defender, since Garnett and Dirk played the same position, yet Garnett still did not take it upon himself often enough to stop the other team's best player.

[Jasper]

modern day and age is based on hardware :

Did dirk hav 2 MVP's , def Player of year , ALL-Star MVP and a Chip ?

/

[bizil]

GOAT wise, I would still give Dirk the edge. BUT IN GENERAL, Giannis is the best PF I've ever seen play. So in a draft of PF's all time based on prime-peak type of stuff, I'm picking Giannis. Because he's as freakish an athlete the PF spot has ever seen. He's legit great at scoring, passing, rebounding, and defending his position. The way Bron changed the SF spot with his blend of athletic ability, scoring, floor game (rebounding, passing, defense as a package), and positional versatility, Giannis did the same for the PF spot! And he's one of the very rare LEGIT positionless type 7 foot two way players who have ever lived.

Giannis, KG, and AD are pretty much in their own lane for that type of superstar! But Giannis is the KING of that type of very rare player! He amped up with KG and AD did in terms of athletic ability. His brand of athletic ability is ACTUALLY more like a 7 foot Bron than those guys! LOL

I think it's a mere formality he goes down as the #2 GOAT PF if the stays healthy. And from there with another couple of rings, I think he passes Timmy as the GOAT PF. I don't think he needs as many rings as Timmy to pass him on the GOAT PF charts. His peak value and numbers will be so great it will make up the difference! If we are talking the most SKILLED SCORER ever at the PF spot, then Dirk is at the top of the heap. There's a reason Steph included him on his starting 5 team. And why KD included him on his all time 12 man team.

[Round Mound]

I really don't know since i started watching basketball again in 2008 but i do remember Dirk in the 2011 finals. Totally clutch. Giannis is the better athlete and better all around but Dirk's shooting and clutchness was great.

[Pointguard]

I really don't know since i started watching basketball again in 2008 but i do remember Dirk in the 2011 finals. Totally clutch. Giannis is the better athlete and better all around but Dirk's shooting and clutchness was great.

Dirk wasn't great in the clutch like Stephen Curry, Ray Allen, Magic, Jordan, Lebron, Worthy or Bird. Dirk had that one year when he was great and even that year wasn't as clutch as Giannis in 2021. Giannis got better as the opponents got tougher. You actually said "totally clutch" which is where your argument falls apart. You think clutch only means shooting a jump shot. Giannis was totally clutch: Rebounds, blocks, steals, foul shots, passes, stops, energy, galvanizing the stadium... . Not to mention Giannis had a wide margin in scoring advange and shooting percentage wise in the more important games than Dirk did. There is a difference in a clutch shot vs "total clutch" play while being obviously more prolific and efficient, Not only do the stats prove it but if you seen them play its not up for debate. You didn't think this one thru. .

[Nowitness]

Giannis quite comfortably.

He's the 2nd greatest PF of all time already. But he has a long way to go to catch Duncan, who IMO has the largest gap between best position and second best ever

Magic 4/Curry 10
Jordan 1/Kobe 9
LBJ 2/Bird 7
Duncan 5/Giannis 16
Kareem 3/Russell 6

[SATAN]

Gotta love Dirk. Although I think some people overrated him after he won a single championship in a series where LeBron James put in little effort. Not taking anything away from Dirk though. He was great but Giannis will go down as the better player when it's all said and done. It's a hard comparison. Dirk would fit any era but Giannis is "The Greek Freak". I was surprised he even ended up improving so much.

What would people think if Giannis doesn't last that long due to injury or something and fades out though? Just one of those guys with an incredible run cut short. I hate lists. :confusedshrug:

[Nike D'Antoni]

Giannis losing as 1st seed to 8th seed reminded me of Dirk's choke job vs the Warriors.
Although Dirk's was much much more embarrassing.

[plowking]

Giannis losing as 1st seed to 8th seed reminded me of Dirk's choke job vs the Warriors.
Although Dirk's was much much more embarrassing.


How? Giannis was injured. Nothing alike.

[DMAVS41]

How? Giannis was injured. Nothing alike.

Strong disagree. Giannis wasn’t injured. He hurt his back and his team won a game, the only win in the series, without him.

Dirk had circumstances as well. Facing former coach playing terrible style for the Mavs without nearly as good of help as Giannis and a worse coach as well. Oh, and Dirk thought his dad might die as he faced a serious health issue mid series.

Imagine if Dirk lost in 5 with the only win coming in a game he didn’t play. Also, the Warriors were winning by real margins… it was clear they had the better team in the matchup. Not true at all here, Bucks just fell apart multiple times.

End of the day, people go easier on guys like Giannis than guys like Dirk or Jokic. It’s unfair, but that is how it is.

Giannis doesn’t get a single win in the series with an elite supporting cast and it’s not comparable…😂

[DMAVS41]

First of all let me start by saying no one hates on this era more than me! :oldlol: And Giannis' game is ugly as hell but effectiveness beats style any day of the week.

I think people who put Dirk > KG don't understand the level of defensive impact KG had. He literally may be the GOAT defender except Russell.

The reason I have KG over Dirk is simple. Look at it this way. Post-prime KG from 2010-2012 was averaging pedestrian offensive numbers like an average starter. Based on defense alone he was a top 15ish player in the league. In fact his defensive impact metrics like DRAPM, DPIPM etc. were best in the world in those years even over DPOY Dwight Howard who was himself a historically great defender. And watching him no one disrupted more plays than KG. The point is if a post-prime KG is THAT GOOD based just on defense alone since his offense was average how good is prime KG with a perhaps unsurpassed motor and offense that gives you 24 ppg on solid efficiency, terrific offensive rebounding and great passing and ballhandling. Offense isn't just scoring and in those other eras KG destroys Dirk. No way the offensive gap can be as big as the defensive gap.

And Giannis is KG on steroids. No jumper and just a wee-bit worse defensive fundamentals but his athleticism makes up for it and then some. Even if we shave off 2 ppg and 2% in efficiency due to an easier era, Giannis is still a significantly better offensive player than KG and almost the defender KG is so by default Giannis > Dirk.

I had some epic debates with DMAVS on KG vs. Dirk. Great guy. I wish he posted more on here.

Still here.

I think this series for Giannis/Bucks illustrates not only some of my points concerning KG/Dirk, but also just how hard it is for everyone to win.

I’m a huge supporter of both KG and Giannis, but the more I watch… the more truly elite individual offense is more valuable in my mind. With a defensive force like Lopez, putting Dirk on that team in place of Giannis is interesting to me. I think they’d probably be better with Dirk in most circumstances. Jrue/Lopez is about as good defensively as you can get.

[tpols]

Dirk was better at the game of basketball. The way giannis is reffed is appalling... he gets more FTs than the entire opposing team in playoff games for contact that he continually initiates.

[1987_Lakers]

Giannis was better in their peaks. All this Giannis hate will die down once the memory of this series fades a bit.

Dirk losing in the 1st round to an 8th seed in 2007 was even more embarrassing considering he was healthy and the MVP.

[Axe]

Dirk losing in the 1st round to an 8th seed in 2007 was even more embarrassing considering he was healthy and the MVP.
What's funny about that series is that donnie nelson was the then-GM of the mavericks at that time... only to get bounced by an 8th seed team coached by none other than his hof dad don nelson. :lol

[Jasper]

Giannis was better in their peaks. All this Giannis hate will die down once the memory of this series fades a bit.

Dirk losing in the 1st round to an 8th seed in 2007 was even more embarrassing considering he was healthy and the MVP.

thank you.

[DMAVS41]

Giannis was better in their peaks. All this Giannis hate will die down once the memory of this series fades a bit.

Dirk losing in the 1st round to an 8th seed in 2007 was even more embarrassing considering he was healthy and the MVP.

There were actually rumors in Dallas that Dirk has hiding an injury late in the year in 07 and it also came out that his family was going through a rough time in the playoffs because his dad was really sick.

Like I said before… everyone wants context and circumstances applied only when it benefits certain players.

This will be nothing of note for Giannis ultimately and the circumstances should be taken into account… just apply that same logic to all players fairly.

[WhiteKyrie]

I have them ranked the same actually. One is all offensive skill and no defense. The other is all illegal traveling and brute blunt force trauma physicality. Both firmly behind: KD, Steph, Barkley, Malone, and Kawhi. For me. And being really honest Luka is probably already better than Dirk and the best Mavericks player ever and all he needs is a chip to solidify it.

[DMAVS41]

I have them ranked the same actually. One is all offensive skill and no defense. The other is all illegal traveling and brute blunt force trauma physicality. Both firmly behind: KD, Steph, Barkley, Malone, and Kawhi. For me. And being really honest Luka is probably already better than Dirk and the best Mavericks player ever and all he needs is a chip to solidify it.

Luka is going to need to win multiple titles as the clear best player to surpass Dirk.

Definitely has a chance, he’s that good, but it’s easier said than done.