MVP candidates should be Mitchell, Embiid and Harden

[LeCola]

MVP award is given to best player of 1st or 2nd seed team as a tradition.

https://i.imgur.com/xQ7NyRW.png

Their stats (please check Nash's stats):

https://i.imgur.com/rPpxRMH.png

It seems that two of the Jazz, 76ers and Nets will be in top two seed. Their best players stats are:

https://i.imgur.com/ymXU4J1.png

https://i.imgur.com/gUVoq4o.png

https://i.imgur.com/4nPl2pi.png

[Hey Yo]

Voters are not going to give it to a guy who demanded to be traded, mid-contract, to a team who was already a contender w/o him.

[Manny98]

Mitchell, best player on the best team :applause:

[GOBB]

Jokic deserves it if season ended today.

[Xiao Yao You]

Mitchell, best player on the best team :applause:

keep trollin' :facepalm

[tontoz]

Mitchell has no chance. A big reason for Utah's success is that their top guys haven't missed many games due to injury/covid. I would guess that they have fewer games missed than any playoff team. That doesn't make Mitchell more valuable.

Not to mention that Utah has 3 all stars. Mitchell isn't even in the MVP conversation.

[Xiao Yao You]

Mitchell has no chance. A big reason for Utah's success is that their top guys haven't missed many games due to injury/covid. I would guess that they have fewer games missed than any playoff team. That doesn't make Mitchell more valuable.

Not to mention that Utah has 3 all stars. Mitchell isn't even in the MVP conversation.

Mitchell isn't in the conversation as Utah's MVP

[tontoz]

Mitchell isn't in the conversation as Utah's MVP


Checking the on/off numbers on 82games.com

Rudy +15
Conley +13
Mitchell -4 :lol

http://www.82games.com/2021/20UTA4.HTM#onoff

[Gohan]

Giving it to Mitchell would be one of the biggest travesties in nba history

[Xiao Yao You]

Checking the on/off numbers on 82games.com

Rudy +15
Conley +13
Mitchell -4 :lol

http://www.82games.com/2021/20UTA4.HTM#onoff

Don't bring logic to this. PPG is what most here look at

[Chick Stern]

Harden’s start of the season rules him out

[GOBB]

Y’all bugging. While I agree Mitchell winning MVP has no chance. To keep downplaying his importance is silly. Especially thinking Conley is over Mitchell. Conley is the 3rd wheel. Rudy/Donovan is argued 1 and 2. And I’m sure most would favor Rudy based on how the team fares without him vs Mitchell. And/Or rather the replaceable factor.

[GOBB]

Harden’s start of the season rules him out

8 games automatically rules him out? Not sure I like this logic at all. I ruled him out can Jokic who is having the better season across the board.

[Xiao Yao You]

Y’all bugging. While I agree Mitchell winning MVP has no chance. To keep downplaying his importance is silly. Especially thinking Conley is over Mitchell. Conley is the 3rd wheel. Rudy/Donovan is argued 1 and 2. And I’m sure most would favor Rudy based on how the team fares without him vs Mitchell. And/Or rather the replaceable factor.

Conley much more valuable than Mitchell

[GOBB]

Conley much more valuable than Mitchell

Not even.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30827963/which-player-early-lead-nba-mvp-race

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Small game James had too poor of a start to the season

EmBum had his annual injury

LeOld is too old to play anymore unless you give him a 4 month vacation in between season

It's between Kawhi and Gobert from the smart fans

[Xiao Yao You]

Not even.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30827963/which-player-early-lead-nba-mvp-race

to anyone watching the games it's not even a discussion They posted the stats of Sexton as the Jazz next opponent and all I could think is that's Donovan if not for Rudy and Conley

[GOBB]

to anyone watching the games it's not even a discussion They posted the stats of Sexton as the Jazz next opponent and all I could think is that's Donovan if not for Rudy and Conley

Games are being watched. Straw poll vote where Mitchell received more votes/pts tgan Conley who is apparently more important. It’s not going to change your stance because you don’t think much of Mitchell. But it says a lot that other people view it Rudy/Mitchell/Conley and not Rudy/Conley/Mitchell.

[Xiao Yao You]

Games are being watched. Straw poll vote where Mitchell received more votes/pts tgan Conley who is apparently more important. It’s not going to change your stance because you don’t think much of Mitchell. But it says a lot that other people view it Rudy/Mitchell/Conley and not Rudy/Conley/Mitchell.

It's Rudy and Conley. No one else is even in the conversation. You can argue Mitchell for 2nd tier with O'Neale and Ingles if you want

[Manny98]

It's Rudy and Conley. No one else is even in the conversation. You can argue Mitchell for 2nd tier with O'Neale and Ingles if you want
How can the player that's carrying the entire offense be a whole tier below Rudy and Conley :facepalm

You're hate boner for Mitchell is ridiculous

[GOBB]

How can the player that's carrying the entire offense be a whole tier below Rudy and Conley :facepalm

You're hate boner for Mitchell is ridiculous

Yeah he’s ridiculous. He’s lucky Mitchell is there or he wouldn’t have a team to brag about this season. Lol

[tontoz]

I can't rule out Harden just because of the ugly exit from Houston. He is by far the primary reason Brooklyn has been playing so well.

He also showed out his first 3 games in Houston averaging 37/11. Then he was weak for 5 games when he had one foot out the door.

[Xiao Yao You]

How can the player that's carrying the entire offense be a whole tier below Rudy and Conley :facepalm

You're hate boner for Mitchell is ridiculous

6th in TS%. What are we going by now? PPG? :lol

[Xiao Yao You]

Yeah he’s ridiculous. He’s lucky Mitchell is there or he wouldn’t have a team to brag about this season. Lol

Who's bragging. Lottery without Gobert is all I know

[GOBB]

Not bragging in the sense of ha ha my team is #1.


6th in TS%. What are we going by now? PPG? :lol

Going by ts% is just as cringe as solely ppg

[tontoz]

Dame is also in the mix. He was carrying his team when they were struggling with injuries.

30/8 with a 62% TS is no joke. He has been typically clutch as well.

My top 3 right now are:

Jokic
Harden
Dame

I would be fine with any of them winning it.

[Xiao Yao You]

Not bragging in the sense of ha ha my team is #1.



Going by ts% is just as cringe as solely ppg

talk to Manny

[Manny98]

6th in TS%. What are we going by now? PPG? :lol
6th in TS%

1st in scoring, 1st in assists

Keep on hating on Mitchell

[Manny98]

Who's bragging. Lottery without Gobert is all I know
No they'd be 7-8th seed team, Gobert isn't LeBron

[Xiao Yao You]

No they'd be 7-8th seed team, Gobert isn't LeBron

like Lebron he helps you win. Without him they've never been good

[RRR3]

like Lebron he helps you win. Without him they've never been good
The troll is out.

[Manny98]

like Lebron he helps you win. Without him they've never been good
What I meant is that he doesn't have that kind of impact where his team goes from number 1 in the NBA to lottery without him

Utah still have a playoff level roster without Gobert and 2 all star caliber players in Mitchell & Conley + solid role players like Royce,Ingles and Clarkson

[Xiao Yao You]

The troll is out.

Only post facts

[Proctor]

What I meant is that he doesn't have that kind of impact where his team goes from number 1 in the NBA to lottery without him

Utah still have a playoff level roster without Gobert and 2 all star caliber players in Mitchell & Conley + solid role players like Royce,Ingles and Clarkson

Exactly

Utah is the same with Capela

[Xiao Yao You]

What I meant is that he doesn't have that kind of impact where his team goes from number 1 in the NBA to lottery without him

Utah still have a playoff level roster without Gobert and 2 all star caliber players in Mitchell & Conley + solid role players like Royce,Ingles and Clarkson

Because of Conley They might still be competitive but the defense would be horrible. Have to try and out score teams. Not a great recipe

[Xiao Yao You]

Exactly

Utah is the same with Capela

when has Capela ever carried a bad team?

[Proctor]

when has Capela ever carried a bad team?

Same as Rudy. Never

[LoneyROY7]

when has Capela ever carried a bad team?

When has Rudy?

[Derka]

Embiid or Jokic.

Harden can eat all the ball sacks for doing Houston how he did.

[Xiao Yao You]

When has Rudy?

Not sure why I have to keep repeating myself other than I'm talking to ISH trolls. The season he emerged he led a team that was tanking to the 6th best record in the league to finish the year. The next year while still acting like they were tanking for some reason they missed the playoffs only because he missed two months. They were terrible without him. The next year they finally gave him some help in Diaw's corpse and the last legs of Joe Johnson and George Hill. Setting the blueprint for what we see today putting shooters around their best player. 2nd round. The next year they were closer to the worst record in basketball than the playoffs with Gobert missing a month and he got them to the 2nd round yet again. No Hayward. Rubio and Favors spotting up in the corner! The next year with the same sorry ass crew they made it again. Last year they finally went back to putting shooters around him but left out the PF slot and guys that defend. In the same place now except he has Conley to help carry them. The defense would be horrible with Capela as it often is even with Rudy carrying it

[DoctorP]

Harden seems like the frontrunner at this point. If Nets run away with the East, even moreso.

[DoctorP]

Not sure why I have to keep repeating myself other than I'm talking to ISH trolls. The season he emerged he led a team that was tanking to the 6th best record in the league to finish the year. The next year while still acting like they were tanking for some reason they missed the playoffs only because he missed two months. They were terrible without him. The next year they finally gave him some help in Diaw's corpse and the last legs of Joe Johnson and George Hill. Setting the blueprint for what we see today putting shooters around their best player. 2nd round. The next year they were closer to the worst record in basketball than the playoffs with Gobert missing a month and he got them to the 2nd round yet again. No Hayward. Rubio and Favors spotting up in the corner! The next year with the same sorry ass crew they made it again. Last year they finally went back to putting shooters around him but left out the PF slot and guys that defend. In the same place now except he has Conley to help carry them. The defense would be horrible with Capela as it often is even with Rudy carrying it

Same case as earlier in the season, if the Jazz have the best record in the league by a wide margin Rudy may get the nod as the cornerstone.

[Manny98]

Not sure why I have to keep repeating myself other than I'm talking to ISH trolls. The season he emerged he led a team that was tanking to the 6th best record in the league to finish the year. The next year while still acting like they were tanking for some reason they missed the playoffs only because he missed two months. They were terrible without him. The next year they finally gave him some help in Diaw's corpse and the last legs of Joe Johnson and George Hill. Setting the blueprint for what we see today putting shooters around their best player. 2nd round. The next year they were closer to the worst record in basketball than the playoffs with Gobert missing a month and he got them to the 2nd round yet again. No Hayward. Rubio and Favors spotting up in the corner! The next year with the same sorry ass crew they made it again. Last year they finally went back to putting shooters around him but left out the PF slot and guys that defend. In the same place now except he has Conley to help carry them. The defense would be horrible with Capela as it often is even with Rudy carrying it
Gobert has never lead Utah in scoring once.

That season they won 51 games Hayward was considered the best player on that team and Hill lead the team in Net Rating

Stop spouting nonsense that Gobert carried Utah when he clearly didn't.

[Manny98]

Same as Rudy. Never
Rudy is basically a lesser version of Dwight Howard without the freak athleticism

Can't shoot to save his life
No post game
No face up game

[Xiao Yao You]

Gobert has never lead Utah in scoring once.

That season they won 51 games Hayward was considered the best player on that team and Hill lead the team in Net Rating

Stop spouting nonsense that Gobert carried Utah when he clearly didn't.

Rudy was all League. Hayward was only considered the best player by people like you that think Mitchell is there best player. Hayward was a good all around player unlike Mitchell though. Hill was arguably their best player the first month. Conley like. Unfortunately he hurt his toe and was inconsistent the rest of the way.

a tanking team with the 6th best record when their project emerges? Give me some more of that nonsense please!

[Xiao Yao You]

Rudy is basically a lesser version of Dwight Howard without the freak athleticism

Can't shoot to save his life
No post game
No face up game

has all that but is smart enough to know that the dunk is the most effective shot in the game

[ShawkFactory]

has all that but is smart enough to know that the dunk is the most effective shot in the game

Is he the best player in the game?

[Xiao Yao You]

Is he the best player in the game?

one of the best certainly as much as it pains the trolls

[LoneyROY7]

has all that but is smart enough to know that the dunk is the most effective shot in the game

Such a clown. :oldlol:

Uh, uh Toody has all those skills...he just chooses not to show them. Ever.

Your delusion is unreal.

[ShawkFactory]

one of the best certainly as much as it pains the trolls

One of the best as in top 20 or so? Or one of the best as in top 5.

[Xiao Yao You]

Such a clown. :oldlol:

Uh, uh Toody has all those skills...he just chooses not to show them. Ever.

Your delusion is unreal.

Why would he choose a less efficient shot? Plenty of guys out there to do that

[RRR3]

has all that but is smart enough to know that the dunk is the most effective shot in the game
Toody has a post game, jumper and faceup game?



TOODY??????





TOODY???!???????!!?






















:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Manny98]

has all that but is smart enough to know that the dunk is the most effective shot in the game
No because all he can do is dunk at the rim 95% of his points come from getting spoonfed by the point guard or from putbacks

He cannot create offense for himself whatsoever hence why he's never averaged close to 20ppg

[Xiao Yao You]

No because all he can do is dunk at the rim 95% of his points come from getting spoonfed by the point guard or from putbacks

He cannot create offense for himself whatsoever hence why he's never averaged close to 20ppg

Why would he do anything else when he's the best ever at something?

[RRR3]

Why would he do anything else when he's the best ever at something?
What the hell is Toody the best ever at? :yaohappy:

[Xiao Yao You]

What the hell is Toody the best ever at? :yaohappy:

all time leader in dunks in a season. Where ya been? Why do I have to keep repeating myself over and over again!

[RRR3]

all time leader in dunks in a season. Where ya been? Why do I have to keep repeating myself over and over again!
That doesn’t make him the best dunker ever you complete imbecile :facepalm

If Shaq was used like Gobert he’d probably have 600 dunks a year.

[Xiao Yao You]

That doesn’t make him the best dunker ever you complete imbecile :facepalm

If Shaq was used like Gobert he’d probably have 600 dunks a year.

Shaq couldn't be used like Gobert. Gobert gets up higher than everyone else. That's what makes him such a lob threat that their great shooters are left wide open for 3's. Watch a game sometime!

[RRR3]

Shaq couldn't be used like Gobert. Gobert gets up higher than everyone else. That's what makes him such a lob threat that their great shooters are left wide open for 3's. Watch a game sometime!
Permaban time.

[Manny98]

Shaq couldn't be used like Gobert. Gobert gets up higher than everyone else. That's what makes him such a lob threat that their great shooters are left wide open for 3's. Watch a game sometime!
:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:

[RRR3]

:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:
I told you he thinks Toody is better than Shaq. He’s insane.

[Xiao Yao You]

Permaban time.

Why would you use Shaq like Gobert? Play to guys strengths. Not sure why that's so difficult for you to get your head around

[Xiao Yao You]

I told you he thinks Toody is better than Shaq. He’s insane.

I'm not the one trolling me 24/7. Get help! :cheers:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Why would you use Shaq like Gobert? Play to guys strengths. Not sure why that's so difficult for you to get your head around

Rudy's only strength on offense is being tall with good reach. He's a bumbling retard who can only make shots within 1 foot of the rim. Which is why they flame out early in the playoffs every year despite historically great performances from Mitchell

Rudy absolutely sucks

[Xiao Yao You]

Rudy's only strength on offense is being tall with good reach. He's a bumbling retard who can only make shots within 1 foot of the rim. Which is why they flame out early in the playoffs every year despite historically great performances from Mitchell

Rudy absolutely sucks

His only strength other than running the floor, setting screens, offensive rebounding. They are a top 5 offense for a reason. They flame out because they haven't had a good enough team. Were on their way when Hayward left. Went from that to Rubio and Favors spotting up in the corners. Replaced that with bad D and no size

[tpols]

Putting Mitchell there is just a total joke.

If you look at VORP, it paints a great picture of whose most valuable so far in this regular season.

Jokic (by a country mile)

Giannis
LeBron
Luka
Harden
Curry
Dame
Kawhi
Embiid

That's top 10.

Rudy Gobert is number 18 and the best on the Jazz. Joe Ingles actually has a higher VORP than Donovan Mitchell. That guy is supremely underrated. The Aussie version of Boris Diaw. His IQ is through the charts, he's skilled, and has some chippyness to him. I remember him shitting on Paul George in the playoffs a few years ago, and just in general be down to talk trash and throw bows.

[Manny98]

Xiaos takes in this thread alone:

Rudy is the best dunker ever

Utah would be a lottery team without Gobert

Shaq couldn't fill Goberts role as well as him

Gobert has an elite post game and faceup game, he just chooses not to show it

Mitchell sucks

Rudy carried Utah to the playoffs

Gobert is an elite jumpshooter

:facepalm

[kawhileonard2]

Kawhi is the MVP.

[RRR3]

Xiaos takes in this thread alone:

Rudy is the best dunker ever

Utah would be a lottery team without Gobert

Shaq couldn't fill Goberts role as well as him

Gobert has an elite post game and faceup game, he just chooses not to show it

Mitchell sucks

Rudy carried Utah to the playoffs

Gobert is an elite jumpshooter

:facepalm
:roll: :yaohappy: :roll:

Can you imagine if he was the Jazz coach? :lol

[Xiao Yao You]

Xiaos takes in this thread alone:

Rudy is the best dunker ever

Utah would be a lottery team without Gobert

Shaq couldn't fill Goberts role as well as him

Gobert has an elite post game and faceup game, he just chooses not to show it

Mitchell sucks

Rudy carried Utah to the playoffs

Gobert is an elite jumpshooter

:facepalm

He is the all time leader in dunks in a season. Elite. Why would he start doing things that are less efficient?

Utah has sucked without Gobert

Why would you have Shaq as a mere lob threat?

I said Rudy had elite post game and faceup game? Link?

Mitchell sucks at D and running an offense and playing efficiently

Where did I say Rudy was an elite jump shooter?

I post facts. You just troll. Get a life Manny. I'm worried

[Xiao Yao You]

:roll: :yaohappy: :roll:

Can you imagine if he was the Jazz coach? :lol

Yeah they'd actually play a PF or maybe even 2 and Mitchell would be 6th man and Bojan and Clarkson wouldn't be playing. Championship

[RRR3]

Yeah they'd actually play a PF or maybe even 2 and Mitchell would be 6th man and Bojan and Clarkson wouldn't be playing. Championship
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Funny to actually play PF's and make the starting lineup bigger and better defensively without losing spacing? Strengthen the bench too. The weak links are minimized.

[Proctor]

Xiaos takes in this thread alone:

Rudy is the best dunker ever

Utah would be a lottery team without Gobert

Shaq couldn't fill Goberts role as well as him

Gobert has an elite post game and faceup game, he just chooses not to show it

Mitchell sucks

Rudy carried Utah to the playoffs

Gobert is an elite jumpshooter

:facepalm

:roll:

[RRR3]

Funny to actually play PF's and make the starting lineup bigger and better defensively without losing spacing? Strengthen the bench too. The weak links are minimized.
Who see you starting at PF? Niang? :oldlol:

And yes it is funny to say you’d bench someone averaging 26 PPG on 57% TS.

[RRR3]

:roll:
Xiao is a top 10 idiot on the NBA forum at this point.



“Shaq m couldn’t do Rudy’s role as well as he does” :yaohappy:

[Proctor]

One of the best as in top 20 or so? Or one of the best as in top 5.

Xiao? Can you answer this? And not say something about being the best at dunking or saying "the stats say it"?

[Axe]

Kawhi is the MVP.
:oldlol:

[RRR3]

Xiao? Can you answer this? And not say something about being the best at dunking or saying "the stats say it"?
He never answers these questions because he doesn’t want to be laughed off the board for thinking Rudy is the best player in the league.

[Xiao Yao You]

Who see you starting at PF? Niang? :oldlol:

And yes it is funny to say you’d bench someone averaging 26 PPG on 57% TS.

Morgan possibly Ersan. You know someone that is actually a PF not a SG.

Defense wins. My lineup shuts people down while not still spacing the floor around their best player

[Xiao Yao You]

Xiao is a top 10 idiot on the NBA forum at this point.



“Shaq m couldn’t do Rudy’s role as well as he does” :yaohappy:

You use " " for actually quotes not things you make up. I'm the idiot? I spend most of my time on ISH schooling you

[Xiao Yao You]

He never answers these questions because he doesn’t want to be laughed off the board for thinking Rudy is the best player in the league.

I'm laughed at all the time. How dare someone say a guy that plays no D isn't the best player! :facepalm

[RRR3]

I'm laughed at all the time. How dare someone say a guy that plays no D isn't the best player! :facepalm
So, to confirm, Rudy Gobert is the best player in the NBA in your opinion? Not “one of them”, THE absolute best. Is that what you think?

[RRR3]

You use " " for actually quotes not things you make up. I'm the idiot? I spend most of my time on ISH schooling you
Schooling me by claiming Toody can post up, face up and shoot jumpers?
Schooling me by claiming Shaq couldn’t do Toody’s job as well as he does?

[Xiao Yao You]

So, to confirm, Rudy Gobert is the best player in the NBA in your opinion? Not “one of them”, THE absolute best. Is that what you think?

where did you get that? What is it with you and reading comprehension? You not finish middlel school yet?

[Xiao Yao You]

Schooling me by claiming Shaq couldn’t do Toody’s job as well as he does?

link?

[Proctor]

where did you get that? What is it with you and reading comprehension? You not finish middlel school yet?
Can you answer Shawk's question?

[RRR3]

Can you answer Shawk's question?
:roll: :roll: :roll:


Can you Xiao?

[RRR3]

link?
Literally post #58 in this thread.

[Xiao Yao You]

Literally post #58 in this thread.

Why would use Shaq as a lob threat? Gobert is used to maximize what he does. The best vertical spacer in the game. Why wouldn't you want to maximize Shaq's talents which wasn't getting up higher than everyone else for a lob? You obviously aren't coaching anyone anytime soon

[Uncle Drew]

Why are you guys so obsessed with Rudy Gobert?

[RRR3]

Why are you guys so obsessed with Rudy Gobert?
This is like saying people are “obsessed with MJ” for responding to or trolling 3ball. None of us care about Gobert much, we’re responding to someone who says ridiculous things about him because they’re a massive stan.

[Manny98]

Morgan possibly Ersan. You know someone that is actually a PF not a SG.

Defense wins. My lineup shuts people down while not still spacing the floor around their best player
Who's going to replace Mitchell's scoring, Rudy?:lol

[Xiao Yao You]

Why are you guys so obsessed with Rudy Gobert?

it's what trolls do

[Xiao Yao You]

Who's going to replace Mitchell's scoring, Rudy?:lol

Mitchell would still be scoring just off the bench in a role more suited to him. They wouldn't need to score as much because they wouldn't be giving up as many points Conley was a 20 point scorer. Rudy would get some. Ingles has shown his new found scoring ability.

[Manny98]

What team benches their number 1 scorer/shot creator :facepalm

Mitchell isn't even that bad of a defender, you're acting like he's the worst defender in the NBA

[Akeem34TheDream]

it's what trolls do

Before Gobert trolls you were making thousands of posts by yourself in the Jazz forum. It was sad.

[PeroAntic]

Xiao is a clown. he thinks he uncovered the hidden truth that most efficient means the best, when in reality players like Gobert are allowed to be efficient precisely because others with skill and actual basketball ability (and not just being big and tall) put constant pressure and command defensive attention. That is Mitchell.

Never forget how a depleted Derrick Rose picked apart Toody by driving on him over and over again in every possible way. gtfoh with Rudy Gobert.

[Xiao Yao You]

What team benches their number 1 scorer/shot creator :facepalm

Mitchell isn't even that bad of a defender, you're acting like he's the worst defender in the NBA

a smart team that sees what is best and wants to win at the highest level

He plays no defense so no he isn't bad I guess.

[Xiao Yao You]

Xiao is a clown. he thinks he uncovered the hidden truth that most efficient means the best, when in reality players like Gobert are allowed to be efficient precisely because others with skill and actual basketball ability (and not just being big and tall) put constant pressure and command defensive attention. That is Mitchell.

Never forget how a depleted Derrick Rose picked apart Toody by driving on him over and over again in every possible way. gtfoh with Rudy Gobert.

PeroAntic of Rose and Jarbari Parker are elite superstars calling me a clown? :roll:

Anyone that has paid attention saw a tanking team turned around by Gobert. They saw them continue to be bad when he was hurt. All this happened before Mitchell. Mitchell without Gobert is Zach Lavine on a shitty team putting up empty stats:cheers:

[PeroAntic]

PeroAntic of Rose and Jarbari Parker are elite superstars calling me a clown? :roll:

Anyone that has paid attention saw a tanking team turned around by Gobert. They saw them continue to be bad when he was hurt. All this happened before Mitchell. Mitchell without Gobert is Zach Lavine on a shitty team putting up empty stats:cheers:

And Gobert without Mitchell is the same, just without even the 'empty' stats. Thats what you don't get in your thick head.

[Xiao Yao You]

And Gobert without Mitchell is the same, just without even the 'empty' stats. Thats what you don't get in your thick head.

It's not the same. Gobert has already shown he can carry a crappy team. Hard to imagine Mitchell doing that

[PeroAntic]

It's not the same. Gobert has already shown he can carry a crappy team. Hard to imagine Mitchell doing that

Carry them to what exactly?

[Manny98]

It's not the same. Gobert has already shown he can carry a crappy team. Hard to imagine Mitchell doing that

No he hasn't for the millionth time before Mitchell they had Hayward,Hill and Joe Johnson

Rudy has never "carried a team" the same way guys like Harden and LeBron have carried a team

[Tycriss]

Rudy Gobert is clearly the best jazz player, It must be top 5 on the MVP ranking (with the injury of Embiid and Lebron)
My top 5 MVP
-Jokic
-Harden
-Giannis
-Kawhi
-Gobert
(healthy Embiid is first and Lebron is second)


PER:
-Gobert : 24.61 (13th)
-Mitchell : 21.88
-Conley : 19.41

LEBRON:
-Gobert : 5.50 (4th)
-Mitchell : 2.14
-Conley : 2.63

RAPTOR:
-Gobert : 6.6 (6th)
-Mitchell :4.1
-Conley : 5.6

EPM:
-Gobert : 5.1 (9th)
-Mitchell : 2.8
-Conley : 5.3

DARKO:
-Gobert : 4 (12th)
-Mitchell : 3
-Conley : 2.2


Win Shares:
-Gobert : 6.9 (3th)
-Mitchell :5
-Conley : 4

Defensive Win Shares:
-Gobert : 3.1 (1st)
-Mitchell : 1.7
-Conley : 1.3

[light]

No one knows who the MVP is going to be at this point.

The problem with the Jazz is that one player isn't carrying the load so voters won't know which player deserves it the most.

For Embiid, the Sixers are 7-2 without him or something like that.

Harden has too much help.

The frontrunner right now is still LeBron being that he's only missed 4 games and he's more important to his team than those other players are to theirs.

If the season ended right now LeBron would win MVP.

[RRR3]

No he hasn't for the millionth time before Mitchell they had Hayward,Hill and Joe Johnson

Rudy has never "carried a team" the same way guys like Harden and LeBron have carried a team
He’s talking about Rudy’s second year in the league. Apparently it was all Rudy despite Hayward and Favors being at their peaks (Hayward had one better year than that year but just one and Favors had one of if not his best seasons).

[Xiao Yao You]

Carry them to what exactly?

out of the lottery and made them competitive

[Xiao Yao You]

No he hasn't for the millionth time before Mitchell they had Hayward,Hill and Joe Johnson

Rudy has never "carried a team" the same way guys like Harden and LeBron have carried a team

Before Hill he had Trey Burke, Dante Exum, Elijiah Millsap, Chris Johnson, Jeremy Evans, Ian Clark, Jack Cooley, Steve Novak etc. Went from tanking and losing 9 in a row and being one of the worst teams in the league to finishing with the 6th best record after they traded Kanter and put Gobert in the starting lineup. Had already made them competitive immediately when he first emerged as the man in December. The next year despite the incredible finish instead of adding the vet pg they needed they added Neto, Pleiss, Erick Green and Jeff Whithey and tried to tank anyway. It took 2 months of Gobert being hurt for them to miss the playoffs just under .500. Were great with him. Terrible without him. A long running theme.

With Hayward about to be a free agent they finally got him some help and they went to another level. The first glimpse of what we see now of 4 shooters around their best player. Imagine building around your best player. What a concept! So of course they replace Hill with Rubio and put Favors and Hood back in the starting lineup until Hood got sick and was replaced by rookie Mitchell. Rudy got hurt for a month and again they sucked without him despite the greatness of Donovan Mitchell. Were closer to the worst team in the league than to the playoffs before he came back and led them to another great finish despite the very flawed team around him.

After wasting two more years of Rudy's prime with Favors and Rubio spotting up in the corner they finally went back to building around their best player. Unfortunately this time they've forgot a PF or size in the backcourt. Despite another very flawed roster he has led them to a top 5 O and D. Thanks Mitchell :facepalm

[Xiao Yao You]

No he hasn't for the millionth time before Mitchell they had Hayward,Hill and Joe Johnson

Rudy has never "carried a team" the same way guys like Harden and LeBron have carried a team

He's carried a team like few players at both ends of the floor. Without him they have sucked. With him they've been good to great

[Xiao Yao You]

Rudy Gobert is clearly the best jazz player, It must be top 5 on the MVP ranking (with the injury of Embiid and Lebron)
My top 5 MVP
-Jokic
-Harden
-Giannis
-Kawhi
-Gobert
(healthy Embiid is first and Lebron is second)


PER:
-Gobert : 24.61 (13th)
-Mitchell : 21.88
-Conley : 19.41

LEBRON:
-Gobert : 5.50 (4th)
-Mitchell : 2.14
-Conley : 2.63

RAPTOR:
-Gobert : 6.6 (6th)
-Mitchell :4.1
-Conley : 5.6

EPM:
-Gobert : 5.1 (9th)
-Mitchell : 2.8
-Conley : 5.3

DARKO:
-Gobert : 4 (12th)
-Mitchell : 3
-Conley : 2.2


Win Shares:
-Gobert : 6.9 (3th)
-Mitchell :5
-Conley : 4

Defensive Win Shares:
-Gobert : 3.1 (1st)
-Mitchell : 1.7
-Conley : 1.3

You need some better stats man. That doesn't make Mitchell look very good :(

[RRR3]

You need some better stats man. That doesn't make Mitchell look very good :(
Are you blind? Yes they do. Just because Mitchell isn’t as impactful as Gobert or Conley doesn’t mean he’s not having a really good year. Those stats all indicate he’s having a damn good year.

[RRR3]

He's carried a team like few players at both ends of the floor. Without him they have sucked. With him they've been good to great
No he has not carried a team like “few players” on offense. I can name 100 better offensive players in the league rn easily.

[Proctor]

One of the best as in top 20 or so? Or one of the best as in top 5.
Xiao, can you answer this?

Since we apparently don't watch the games, we could use your insight.

And please don't answer in the negative - we're not interested in who isn't top 20 or top 5. We want to know where you would rank Rudy. Thank you! :cheers:

[dankok8]

The MVP is either Jokic or Harden at this point... They missed the fewest games and carried their teams to enough wins. A lot can change in the last third of the season though.

[Xiao Yao You]

He’s talking about Rudy’s second year in the league. Apparently it was all Rudy despite Hayward and Favors being at their peaks (Hayward had one better year than that year but just one and Favors had one of if not his best seasons).

They sucked with their so called big 4 of Hayward, Favors, Burks and Kanter with all rookie Trey Burks. Gobert was their 3rd or 4th big when in December it became undeniable who the man was and it wasn't any of the afforemntioned unless the lottery was your gol which it was. He ****ed them good! :cheers:

[Xiao Yao You]

Are you blind? Yes they do. Just because Mitchell isn’t as impactful as Gobert or Conley doesn’t mean he’s not having a really good year. Those stats all indicate he’s having a damn good year.

really good is not MVP or best player on his team

[Xiao Yao You]

No he has not carried a team like “few players” on offense. I can name 100 better offensive players in the league rn easily.

you can but again you'll be wrong again so you might as well forget it. Porzingas! :roll:

[RRR3]

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Curry
4. Kawhi
5. Giannis
6. Harden
7. Embiid
8. Jokic
9. Luka
10. AD
11. Lillard
12. Jimmy Butler
13. Kyrie
14. Paul George
15. Beal
16. CP3
17. Zach Lavine
18. Bam Adebayo
19. Jaylen Brown
20. Trae Young
21. Mitchell
22. Domantas Sabonis
23. Middleton
24. Tatum
25. Zion
26. Ingram
27. Julius Randle
28. SGA
29. Vucevic
30. Ben Simmons
31. McCollum
32. DeAaron Fox
33. Hayward
34. Terry Rozier
35. LaMelo
36. DeRozan
37. Lowry
38. Siakam
39. VanVleet
40. Conley
41. Klay Thompson
42. Jamal Murray
43. Michael Porter Jr
44. Bojan Bogdanovic
45. John Collins
46. Kemba Walker
47. Colin Sexton
48. Kevin Love
49. KAT
50. Jrue Holiday
51. Lonzo
52. Evan Fournier
53. Porzingis
54. Tim Hardaway Jr
55. Dragic
56. Joe Ingles
57. Brogdon
58. Serge Ibaka
59. Christian Wood
60. Buddy Hield
61. Tyrese Halliburton
62. Davis Bertans
63. Al Horford
64. Aldridge
65. Lauri Markkane
66. Jerami Grant
67. Myles Turner
68. Luke Kennard
69. Reggie Jackson
70. Dennis Schroder
71. Montrezl Harrell
72. Jaren Jackson Jr
73. Kanter
74. Norman Powell
75. Valanciunas
76. Wayne Ellington
77. Duncan Robinson
78. Bjelica
79. Ayton
80. Malik Beasley
81. D’Angelo Russell
82. Eric Bledsoe
83. Jordan Clarkson
84. Tobias Harris
85. Seth Curry
86. Chris Boucher
87. Harrison Barnes
88. Saric
89. Mikal Bridges
90. Patty Mills
91. Jarrett Allen
92. Joe Harris
93. Bobby Portis
94. Doug McDermott
95. Nicolas Batum
96. Otto Porter
97. Thomas Bryant
98. T.J. Warren
99. Brook Lopez
100. DeAndre Hunter




That’s 100. I left out low efficiency ball dominant guards like Westbrook, Wall and Morant since Xiao would undoubtedly balk at those inclusions.

[RRR3]

They sucked with their so called big 4 of Hayward, Favors, Burks and Kanter with all rookie Trey Burks. Gobert was their 3rd or 4th big when in December it became undeniable who the man was and it wasn't any of the afforemntioned unless the lottery was your gol which it was. He ****ed them good! :cheers:
Burke and Kanter were awful back then. What a shock the team got better when they replaced a bad center with a good one.

[RRR3]

you can but again you'll be wrong again so you might as well forget it. Porzingas! :roll:
You’d have to be braindead to think Toody is better than Porzingis on offense.

[Xiao Yao You]

You’d have to be braindead to think Toody is better than Porzingis on offense.

The Jazz smoked Dallas mostly because all Porzingas did was stand out beyond the 3 point line shooting 3's. Worthless

[RRR3]

The Jazz smoked Dallas mostly because all Porzingas did was stand out beyond the 3 point line shooting 3's. Worthless
I can’t believe you’re stupid enough to not realize Porzingis “standing around shooting 3s” is immensely valuable. Especially given that the plays with Luka Doncic. No response to my 100 better offensive players eh? I guess you agree they’re all better than Toody on offense :cheers:

[Manny98]

you can but again you'll be wrong again so you might as well forget it. Porzingas! :roll:

Why is that funny?

Porzingis averages more points, more assists beats out Rudy in both OBPM and ORPM

Rudy is borderline a negative in offensive metrics

Porzingis provides floor spacing just from being on the court , Rudy provides minimal floor spacing due to not being able to shoot

[RRR3]

Why is that funny?

Porzingis averages more points, more assists beats out Rudy in both OBPM and ORPM

Rudy is borderline a negative in offensive metrics
He’s retarded. I’d take someone like Cameron Johnson over Rudy on offense ffs. He has no concept of spacing.

[Manny98]

Offensive Raptor Gobert ranks 129th in the league :roll::roll::roll:

[RRR3]

Offensive Raptor Gobert ranks 129th in the league :roll::roll::roll:
Like I said, he’s not a top 100 offensive player.

[RRR3]

Toody is 169th in Offensive RPM (Porzingis is 74th)




“Elite on offense”

[Xiao Yao You]

I can’t believe you’re stupid enough to not realize Porzingis “standing around shooting 3s” is immensely valuable. Especially given that the plays with Luka Doncic. No response to my 100 better offensive players eh? I guess you agree they’re all better than Toody on offense :cheers:

Would be valuable if he was hitting them and not being a huge negative in every other facet. Main reason the Jazz smoked them. While he was bricking long 3's offensive stiff Rudy was setting screens, dunking and hitting the offensive boards while dominating the other end

[Xiao Yao You]

Why is that funny?

Porzingis averages more points, more assists beats out Rudy in both OBPM and ORPM

Rudy is borderline a negative in offensive metrics

Porzingis provides floor spacing just from being on the court , Rudy provides minimal floor spacing due to not being able to shoot

Rudy provides spacing as evidenced by all the open 3's by the best 3 point shooting team in the league. Someone usually more than one person has to stop him from dunking

[RRR3]

Would be valuable if he was hitting them and not being a huge negative in every other facet. Main reason the Jazz smoked them. While he was bricking long 3's offensive stiff Rudy was setting screens, dunking and hitting the offensive boards while dominating the other end
He shoots 36.6% on 3s on good volume and his range is extremely deep. That’s perfectly fine. Has Rudy made a 3 in his entire life?

[Xiao Yao You]

He’s retarded. I’d take someone like Cameron Johnson over Rudy on offense ffs. He has no concept of spacing.

You don't. Jazz have open shooters because Rudy has to be guarded at the rim and also can get up higher than anyone else. Vertical spacing like no other team. Not to mention his screens and offensive rebounding

[Xiao Yao You]

He shoots 36.6% on 3s on good volume and his range is extremely deep. That’s perfectly fine. Has Rudy made a 3 in his entire life?

37% doesn't make the Jazz rotation. Rudy doesn't need to make 3's. He does things that are actually valuable to a top 5 offense. The fact that you don't see the value in those things says it all

[RRR3]

Rudy provides spacing as evidenced by all the open 3's by the best 3 point shooting team in the league. Someone usually more than one person has to stop him from dunking
You’re completely insane.

[RRR3]

37% doesn't make the Jazz rotation. Rudy doesn't need to make 3's. He does things that are actually valuable to a top 5 offense. The fact that you don't see the value in those things says it all
You continue to ignore the fact that offensive impact is measurable and by all accounts his impact on that end is minimal.

[Xiao Yao You]

You’re completely insane.

watch a game. If Rudy scores a bunch of points it's because the other team decided to stick with their shooters. If he doesn't it means they are hitting 3's and they are collapsing the paint to take away the roll. Much more valuable than a guy shooting 37% from 3 and doing nothing else

[Xiao Yao You]

You continue to ignore the fact that offensive impact is measurable and by all accounts his impact on that end is minimal.

Not ignoring anything. You obviously are ignoring the fact that Rudy is a huge part of a top 5 offense. There is more to the game than scoring and 3's

[RRR3]

watch a game. If Rudy scores a bunch of points it's because the other team decided to stick with their shooters. If he doesn't it means they are hitting 3's and they are collapsing the paint to take away the roll. Much more valuable than a guy shooting 37% from 3 and doing nothing else
And yet all the stats say Porzingis is significantly more impactful on offense. I guess the stats don’t know as much as your heart.

[RRR3]

Not ignoring anything. You obviously are ignoring the fact that Rudy is a huge part of a top 5 offense. There is more to the game than scoring and 3's
I mean the impact stats say he literally isn’t a huge part of their offense. Not sure why you keep avoiding this.

[Xiao Yao You]

And yet all the stats say Porzingis is significantly more impactful on offense. I guess the stats don’t know as much as your heart.

Many stats show Rudy's impact. Top 5 offense for starters. As we saw with Rubio and Favors you don't have a great offense with squeaky wheels

[RRR3]

Many stats show Rudy's impact. Top 5 offense for starters. As we saw with Rubio and Favors you don't have a great offense with squeaky wheels
Find me a single stat that shows Rudy’s offensive impact. Team ratings don’t count, he is merely one part of the team.

[Xiao Yao You]

Find me a single stat that shows Rudy’s offensive impact. Team ratings don’t count, he is merely one part of the team.

I've posted them over and over and here we are having the same conversation.. I'll pass.

[RRR3]

I've posted them over and over and here we are having the same conversation.. I'll pass.
No you haven’t. You’ve posted team stats which do not measure an individual player. You’ve also posted box score stats which are NOT the same as impact stats which is what I asked for.

[Xiao Yao You]

No you haven’t. You’ve posted team stats which do not measure an individual player. You’ve also posted box score stats which are NOT the same as impact stats which is what I asked for.

I have many times. We've been over it and over it. You don't understand the value of being an elite screen setter, rim runner and offensive rebounder. Many stats show the value. You stick with ppg. :cheers:

[RRR3]

I have many times. We've been over it and over it. You don't understand the value of being an elite screen setter, rim runner and offensive rebounder. Many stats show the value. You stick with ppg. :cheers:
Again, the only stats you’ve given are box score based or team based. Those don’t show the “value” (read: impact) of Rudy’s offense. They show he puts up good looking box scores.

[Xiao Yao You]

Again, the only stats you’ve given are box score based or team based. Those don’t show the “value” (read: impact) of Rudy’s offense. They show he puts up good looking box scores.

his box scores look good without ppg, assists and 3's? At least be consistent

[RRR3]

his box scores look good without ppg, assists and 3's? At least be consistent
I mean yeah he puts up a double double on great efficiency, low turnovers, and he does well in box score based metrics like PER, WS, BPM and VORP.

It’s the impact stats where he struggles (on offense. Impact stats generally have him as the best defender in the league I believe)

[999Guy]

Jokic is winning it. And he should. Greatest offensive season for a big man ever. Decent defense in his own style. He deserves it.

[Xiao Yao You]

12th FTA
2nd all time EFG%
4th offensive rebounds
10th offensive rating
fg % 2nd all time
2 pt FG% 2nd all time
8th in TS%
11th in offensive win shares
1st in +/-
2nd in screen assists
1st in dunks

Not sure how you could argue that isn't a top 100 offensive player. Hard to argue he isn't top 10 unless you want to ignore the impact he makes. There's only 30 teams. At least 3 guys per team are better than that? :roll:

[Manny98]

Rudy provides spacing as evidenced by all the open 3's by the best 3 point shooting team in the league. Someone usually more than one person has to stop him from dunking
Provides spacing how, he can't shoot :oldlol:

Utah are the best shooting team because they're loaded with shooters, you could replace Gobert with Jarrett Allen and they wouldn't miss a beat on offense

[Manny98]

12th FTA
2nd all time EFG%
4th offensive rebounds
10th offensive rating
fg % 2nd all time
2 pt FG% 2nd all time
8th in TS%
11th in offensive win shares
1st in +/-
2nd in screen assists
1st in dunks

Not sure how you could argue that isn't a top 100 offensive player. Hard to argue he isn't top 10 unless you want to ignore the impact he makes. There's only 30 teams. At least 3 guys per team are better than that? :roll:
He's not top 100 in 3 largely used offensive metrics

The numbers speak for themselves
By your logic DeAndre Jordan is an elite offensive player because he lead the league in dunks and FG% :facepalm

[Tycriss]

Provides spacing how, he can't shoot :oldlol:

Utah are the best shooting team because they're loaded with shooters, you could replace Gobert with Jarrett Allen and they wouldn't miss a beat on offense



It's wrong


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owAPqsVAYiw&list=LL&index=3

[Taurus]

I swear Gobert is like the 3rd/4th most discussed player on this forum just cause of one poster.

Also anyone who doesn't have Jokic on their list is blatantly trolling.

[RRR3]

12th FTA
2nd all time EFG%
4th offensive rebounds
10th offensive rating
fg % 2nd all time
2 pt FG% 2nd all time
8th in TS%
11th in offensive win shares
1st in +/-
2nd in screen assists
1st in dunks

Not sure how you could argue that isn't a top 100 offensive player. Hard to argue he isn't top 10 unless you want to ignore the impact he makes. There's only 30 teams. At least 3 guys per team are better than that? :roll:
Literally all of those are box score stats that don’t show impact. Besides +/- which does show impact, but the reason Rudy’s +/- is so good is because he’s the most impactful defender in the league not because of his offense. And impact stats show his impact is almost totally defensive. Great player but not a difference maker on offense.

[Manny98]

It's wrong


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owAPqsVAYiw&list=LL&index=3
By setting screens :oldlol:

You literally just proved my point, you can replace Gobert with any decent screen setter who's good at cutting to the basket (Allen,Capela) and they wouldn't miss a beat on offense

[Proctor]

One of the best as in top 20 or so? Or one of the best as in top 5.

11 pages in and I haven't seen an answer for this. I'm starting to think Xiao doesn't actually watch the games as he claims to. Maybe just YouTube 10 minute highlight videos.

[RRR3]

11 pages in and I haven't seen an answer for this. I'm starting to think Xiao doesn't actually watch the games as he claims to. Maybe just YouTube 10 minute highlight videos.
Hard to analyze other players when your eyes are glued to Rudy the whole time I guess.

[Xiao Yao You]

Provides spacing how, he can't shoot :oldlol:

Utah are the best shooting team because they're loaded with shooters, you could replace Gobert with Jarrett Allen and they wouldn't miss a beat on offense

Why do I have to keep repeating myself? People have to guard him or give up dunks. That provides spacing. It's the vertical kind which I realize is a lot to get your head around Manny. Allen doesn't work as hard as Rudy running the floor, setting screens, pounding the glass, rolling hard. If he did his team wouldn't suck

[Xiao Yao You]

He's not top 100 in 3 largely used offensive metrics

The numbers speak for themselves
By your logic DeAndre Jordan is an elite offensive player because he lead the league in dunks and FG% :facepalm

He's elite in 3 very important facets of the offensive game

Jordan was no where near Rudy at anything but rebounding and he sucks now

[Xiao Yao You]

It's wrong


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owAPqsVAYiw&list=LL&index=3

don't waste your breath. They can't get there head around anything but scoring the ball

[RRR3]

One of the best as in top 20 or so? Or one of the best as in top 5.
Xiao?

[Manny98]

He's elite in 3 very important facets of the offensive game

Jordan was no where near Rudy at anything but rebounding and he sucks now

Elite at what?

Shooting? Nope
Scoring? Nope
Post game? Nope
Playmaking? Nope
Overall offensive impact? Nope (not in top 100 in ORPM or Offensive Raptor)

What does Gobert do on offense that makes him so much better than the likes of Allen,Capela and Clippers DeAndre Jordan

[RRR3]

Elite at what?

Shooting? Nope
Scoring? Nope
Playmaking? Nope
Overall offensive impact? Nope (not in top 100 in ORPM or Offensive Raptor)

What does Gobert do on offense that makes him so much better than the likes of Allen,Capela and Clippers DeAndre Jordan
He makes Xiao hard, that’s what.

[Manny98]

Xiao?

The clown always ducks these types of questions

[Tycriss]

Elite at what?

Shooting? Nope
Scoring? Nope
Post game? Nope
Playmaking? Nope
Overall offensive impact? Nope (not in top 100 in ORPM or Offensive Raptor)

What does Gobert do on offense that makes him so much better than the likes of Allen,Capela and Clippers DeAndre Jordan

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/off_rtg_career.html

[Manny98]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/off_rtg_career.html

DeAndre Jordan has a higher career offensive rating than LeBron,Magic & MJ

Your point?

[Xiao Yao You]

Elite at what?

Shooting? Nope
Scoring? Nope
Post game? Nope
Playmaking? Nope
Overall offensive impact? Nope (not in top 100 in ORPM or Offensive Raptor)

What does Gobert do on offense that makes him so much better than the likes of Allen,Capela and Clippers DeAndre Jordan

Why do I have to keep repeating the same things over and over again? Elite screener, elite rim runner, elite finisher, elite offensive rebounder. When those guys are part of a top 5 offense because of the work they put in let me know

[Xiao Yao You]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/off_rtg_career.html

they're not good with facts. Trolling endlessly is the only thing the know.

[imdaman99]

Rudy is my MVP. Best player on best team. Either him or Jokic. I'd be good with either.

[Xiao Yao You]

Rudy is my MVP. Best player on best team. Either him or Jokic. I'd be good with either.

here come the trolls

[Proctor]

Why do I have to keep repeating the same things over and over again? Elite screener, elite rim runner, elite finisher, elite offensive rebounder. When those guys are part of a top 5 offense because of the work they put in let me know
Bogut did most of those things at an elite level in addition to passing and was a part the top offense for years. Doesn't make him an elite offensive player. Sorry.

Can you repeat your answer to Shawk's question? We must have missed it.

That you can't answer it just goes to show you don't actually believe what you're saying. You're a homer just trying to bait and troll. You will get tired of it eventually

[Manny98]

Why do I have to keep repeating the same things over and over again? Elite screener, elite rim runner, elite finisher, elite offensive rebounder. When those guys are part of a top 5 offense because of the work they put in let me know
Clippers DeAndre did all of those things better than Gobert and the Clippers had a top 5 offense so by your logic Jordan is an elite offensive player?

[Xiao Yao You]

Clippers DeAndre did all of those things better than Gobert and the Clippers had a top 5 offense so by your logic Jordan is an elite offensive player?

he did nothing better than Gobert but rebound. He also played with Paul

[Proctor]

https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/542/783/9783542.jpg

i CaNt AnSWeR becuz RuDy tHE BeST :lol

[theaussieguy]

Joe Ingles is MVP. And if you going to even attempt to dispute that fact, be a bit scientific about it...

[Xiao Yao You]

Joe Ingles is MVP. And if you going to even attempt to dispute that fact, be a bit scientific about it...

he's 3rd or 4th on the Jazz ahead of troll fave Mitchell for sure

[Callystarr]

Mitchell, best player on the best team :applause:

He is not the best player on the team.

[Xiao Yao You]

He is not the best player on the team.

top 5

[NugzFan]

I’ve never seen a fan base so adamantly deny that a certain player isn’t the best player on a team like jazz fans do with Mitchell.

So strange

[Xiao Yao You]

I’ve never seen a fan base so adamantly deny that a certain player isn’t the best player on a team like jazz fans do with Mitchell.

So strange

He'll get the credit when and if he deserves it. Takes more than high usage, highlites and hype to be the best player in today's game

[Proctor]

I’ve never seen a fan base so adamantly deny that a certain player isn’t the best player on a team like jazz fans do with Mitchell.

So strange

It's derangement and stat dorking at its finest. Invention of/reliance on meaningless stats to mold convenient narratives. It's "cool" to think Gobert is the best on his team when he clearly isn't. For some on this forum, apparently that's not good enough and he's one of the best in the entirety of the league.

Apparently he's carried the team too and we all just missed it. Same as Tiago Splitter carried the Spurs in their 2014 ring.

[NugzFan]

It's derangement and stat dorking at its finest. Invention of or reliance on meaningless stats to mold convenient narratives. It's "cool" to think Gobert is the best on his team when he clearly isn't. For some on this forum, apparently that's not good enough and he's one of the best in the entirety of the league.

Apparently he's carried the team too and we all just missed it. Same as Tiago Splitter carried the Spurs in their 2014 ring.

You mean screen assists aren’t real?!

[LeCola]

Harden 38/13/11 vs Wolves. However he choked a double digit lead on last minutes.

[Xiao Yao You]

It's derangement and stat dorking at its finest. Invention of/reliance on meaningless stats to mold convenient narratives. It's "cool" to think Gobert is the best on his team when he clearly isn't. For some on this forum, apparently that's not good enough and he's one of the best in the entirety of the league.

Apparently he's carried the team too and we all just missed it. Same as Tiago Splitter carried the Spurs in their 2014 ring.

He clearly is. How many advanced stats do you need? It's not 1980

[Xiao Yao You]

You mean screen assists aren’t real?!

they are certainly real as are dunks, FT's, offensive rebounds, defense...

[NugzFan]

they are certainly real as are dunks, FT's, offensive rebounds, defense...

Adorable

[Proctor]

He clearly is. How many advanced stats do you need? It's not 1980
Is he a top 20 player in the league? Top 10? Top 5? Where does a man who shines so bright in so many obscure and meaningless stats invented by dorks on the internet rank? You've seen more of him than most of us. We'd love to know

[Gayfuk]

Don't bring logic to this. PPG is what most here look at

I mostly look at wieners.

[Xiao Yao You]

Is he a top 20 player in the league? Top 10? Top 5? Where does a man who shines so bright in so many obscure and meaningless stats invented by dorks on the internet rank? You've seen more of him than most of us. We'd love to know

1 on Jazz. Nothing else matters

[Axe]

I mostly look at wieners.
:milton

[mehyaM24]

It's derangement and stat dorking at its finest. Invention of/reliance on meaningless stats to mold convenient narratives. It's "cool" to think Gobert is the best on his team when he clearly isn't. For some on this forum, apparently that's not good enough and he's one of the best in the entirety of the league.

Apparently he's carried the team too and we all just missed it. Same as Tiago Splitter carried the Spurs in their 2014 ring.

to be fair, gobert has a strong argument. he leads utah in most impact stats & his defensive play outweights mitchell's scoring. i don't think you can build a team around gobert on offense though. not even sure he's a plus on that side.

[Xiao Yao You]

to be fair, gobert has a strong argument. he leads utah in most impact stats & his defensive play outweights mitchell's scoring. i don't think you can build a team around gobert on offense though. not even sure he's a plus on that side.

The offense is built around him though. Pick and roll with 4 shooters. Dunk or 3

[Proctor]

to be fair, gobert has a strong argument. he leads utah in most impact stats & his defensive play outweights mitchell's scoring. i don't think you can build a team around gobert on offense though. not even sure he's a plus on that side.
Not denying Gobert's impact or the fact he's a good player, but you could probably say the same things for Draymond during the great Warriors run and he was never a candidate for best player on his team or a threat to be in the top 10 league wide. Rudy is a great defensive player and a high impact player. I just don't see him as anything close to what Jazz fans on here like to pretend he is. Take Gobert off the Jazz, they're gonna lose a lot of games. Take Mitchell off the Jazz, same result. At the end of the day someone has to put the ball in the hoop.

[mehyaM24]

The offense is built around him though. Pick and roll with 4 shooters. Dunk or 3

lol no. mitchell is clearly the focal point & main option. even conley is more sought out.

[Xiao Yao You]

lol no. mitchell is clearly the focal point & main option. even conley is a better option.

a pick and roll takes 2 players. You space the floor with the others. Gobert or Favors are half of the pick and roll. Sometimes Mitchell is but Conley and Ingles are the best options.

[mehyaM24]

Not denying Gobert's impact or the fact he's a good player, but you could probably say the same things for Draymond during the great Warriors run and he was never a candidate for best player on his team or a threat to be in the top 10 league wide. Rudy is a great defensive player and a high impact player. I just don't see him as anything close to what Jazz fans on here like to pretend he is. Take Gobert off the Jazz, they're gonna lose a lot of games. Take Mitchell off the Jazz, same result. At the end of the day someone has to put the ball in the hoop.

depending on the metric, if minutes & roles are adjusted, i don't think you could find one where draymond is > curry. i get what you mean & don't disagree with your overall point though. the jazz wouldn't be a playoff team without mitchell's scoring.


a pick and roll takes 2 players. You space the floor with the others. Gobert or Favors are half of the pick and roll. Sometimes Mitchell is but Conley and Ingles are the best options.

everyone runs pick and roll. today's league is a p&r haven. nothing special there and not reserved to gobert.

[Xiao Yao You]

depending on the metric, if minutes & roles are adjusted, i don't think you could find one where draymond is > curry. i get what you mean & don't disagree with your overall point though. the jazz wouldn't be a playoff team without mitchell's scoring.



everyone runs pick and roll. today's league is a p&r haven. nothing special there and not reserved to gobert.

Mitchell isn't Curry! Jazz would be in the mix with or without Mitchell as they have been since Gobert emerged. Gobert is elite screen setter and rim runner. He is special

[RRR3]

He’s not special on offense which was the discussion.

[Kings2024Champs]

Im a former gobert hater but Ive been won over. This guy is the best player on the best team in the west. They are the favorites to come out the west in my opinion. Mitchell is electric but he isnt in the mvp top 10 even. Gobert is gonna prove hes top 5 this yr since lakers are beat up and clips wont show up.

[Xiao Yao You]

He’s not special on offense which was the discussion.

not special but top 10 in so many categories and elite in a few

[RRR3]

not special but top 10 in so many categories and elite in a few
Every category he’s elite in so is Clint Capela, Jarrett Allen and DeAndre Jordan. Unless you think they’re all offensive studs to I’m gonna have to say you’re being inconsistent.

[RRR3]

Im a former gobert hater but Ive been won over. This guy is the best player on the best team in the west. They are the favorites to come out the west in my opinion. Mitchell is electric but he isnt in the mvp top 10 even. Gobert is gonna prove hes top 5 this yr since lakers are beat up and clips wont show up.
Rudy definitely won’t be top 5 in the playoffs.

[Xiao Yao You]

Every category he’s elite in so is Clint Capela, Jarrett Allen and DeAndre Jordan. Unless you think they’re all offensive studs to I’m gonna have to say you’re being inconsistent.

How many minuts does Jordan play? How many wins do the Cavs have? The Hawks were bad most of the year despite Capela's supposed greatness. For some reason Rudy's teams win

[RRR3]

How many minuts does Jordan play? How many wins do the Cavs have? The Hawks were bad most of the year despite Capela's supposed greatness. For some reason Rudy's teams win
Gee it’s almost like Rudy is better at defense than those guys so his teams do better.

[Xiao Yao You]

Gee it’s almost like Rudy is better at defense than those guys so his teams do better.

better at screening, finishing, offensive rebounding, running the floor. What an array!

[RRR3]

better at screening, finishing, offensive rebounding, running the floor. What an array!
He’s absolutely not a better offensive rebounder than Capela **** outta here. Lmao at “running the floor”. He’s slower than Capela I’m pretty sure. As for finishing, Jordan is shooting 82.3% from 0-feet. Carrying the Nets :applause:

[Xiao Yao You]

He’s absolutely not a better offensive rebounder than Capela **** outta here. Lmao at “running the floor”. He’s slower than Capela I’m pretty sure. As for finishing, Jordan is shooting 82.3% from 0-feet. Carrying the Nets :applause:

Not about speed. He runs up the court. He works hard. Jordan! :roll:

[RRR3]

Not about speed. He runs up the court. He works hard. Jordan! :roll:
Capela doesn’t run up the court and work hard? :biggums:

You laugh at Jordan but he’s elite in all the stats you like :confusedshrug:

[Xiao Yao You]

Capela doesn’t run up the court and work hard? :biggums:

You laugh at Jordan but he’s elite in all the stats you like :confusedshrug:

Jordan plays 23 minutes a night. Capela is good. He's not Gobert. I like all stats. Unlike you I can see value in the things that lead to scoring points not just the person scoring the points

[RRR3]

12th FTA
2nd all time EFG%
4th offensive rebounds
10th offensive rating
fg % 2nd all time
2 pt FG% 2nd all time
8th in TS%
11th in offensive win shares
1st in +/-
2nd in screen assists
1st in dunks

Not sure how you could argue that isn't a top 100 offensive player. Hard to argue he isn't top 10 unless you want to ignore the impact he makes. There's only 30 teams. At least 3 guys per team are better than that? :roll:
Holy shit I missed this. Xiao said Toody is top 10 on offense. Not top 10 overall (which would also be complete bullshit tbh) but top 10 ON OFFENSE.



He might be more delusional than 3ball.

[Manny98]

he did nothing better than Gobert but rebound. He also played with Paul
Jordan was more athletic and a better rim runner. Better screen setter as well

[Manny98]

Holy shit I missed this. Xiao said Toody is top 10 on offense. Not top 10 overall (which would also be complete bullshit tbh) but top 10 ON OFFENSE.



He might be more delusional than 3ball.
He is at this point

He thinks Rudy is an elite offensive player when he does nothing better on that end compared to guys like Allen,Capela & DJ :facepalm

[Xiao Yao You]

He is at this point

He thinks Rudy is an elite offensive player when he does nothing better on that end compared to guys like Allen,Capela & DJ :facepalm

I know you aren't into facts but

12th FTA
2nd all time EFG%
4th offensive rebounds
10th offensive rating
fg % 2nd all time
2 pt FG% 2nd all time
8th in TS%
11th in offensive win shares
1st in +/-
2nd in screen assists
1st in dunks

[Manny98]

DeAndre Jordan

Top 5 in offensive rebounds for 5 consecutive years
1st all time in EFG%
5th all time in offensive rating
1st all time in FG%
1st all time in TS%
1st in Dunks for consecutive seasons
1st in screen assists for consecutive seasons

So Clippers DeAndre Jordan is an elite offensive player going by your logic

[Xiao Yao You]

DeAndre Jordan

Top 5 in offensive rebounds for 5 consecutive years
1st all time in EFG%
5th all time in offensive rating
1st all time in FG%
1st all time in TS%
1st in Dunks for consecutive seasons
1st in screen assists for consecutive seasons

So Clippers DeAndre Jordan is an elite offensive player going by your logic

too bad he wasn't elite defensively too

[Manny98]

too bad he wasn't elite defensively too
Not the point, DJ was all defense as well

So you admit that Rudy = Clippers DJ on offense?

Stats suggest that DJ was better than Rudy on offense so if Rudy is elite offensively then so is DeAndre by your own logic

[Xiao Yao You]

Not the point, DJ was all defense as well

So you admit that Rudy = Clippers DJ on offense?

Rudy hasn't been surrounded by as much talent. Has had to do much of it alone

[Xiao Yao You]

https://twitter.com/JJSportsBeat/status/1376714441660661761

I do wish he could guard perimeter players

[Xiao Yao You]

https://twitter.com/utahjazz/status/1371998343170117632

https://twitter.com/utahjazz/status/1221226978189008896

:applause:

[Manny98]

Rudy hasn't been surrounded by as much talent. Has had to do much of it alone
Yes or no

Rudy & DJ do the same things on offense according to the stats

[mehyaM24]

DeAndre Jordan

Top 5 in offensive rebounds for 5 consecutive years
1st all time in EFG%
5th all time in offensive rating
1st all time in FG%
1st all time in TS%
1st in Dunks for consecutive seasons
1st in screen assists for consecutive seasons

So Clippers DeAndre Jordan is an elite offensive player going by your logic

lol that poster thinks dunking and setting screens is special. they are definitely useful, but claiming they make a player high impact is wrong. gobert is actually a net negative on the offensive end.

conley & mitchell though are both above average in real offensive +/-. unlike gobert their playmaking, shooting & triple-threat games are efficient.

[RRR3]

Manny DESTROYING Xiao with his own stats :biggums:

[RRR3]

I know you aren't into facts but

12th FTA
2nd all time EFG%
4th offensive rebounds
10th offensive rating
fg % 2nd all time
2 pt FG% 2nd all time
8th in TS%
11th in offensive win shares
1st in +/-
2nd in screen assists
1st in dunks
So that makes him top 10 in offense? :roll:


Seriously please tell me which of these players you could POSSIBLY argue Toody over on offense:


1. LeBron
2. Curry
3. Durant
4. Harden
5. Kawhi
6. Giannis
7. Jokic
8. Embiid
9. Doncic
10. AD

[mehyaM24]

So that makes him top 10 in offense? :roll:


Seriously please tell me which of these players you could POSSIBLY argue Toody over on offense:


1. LeBron
2. Curry
3. Durant
4. Harden
5. Kawhi
6. Giannis
7. Jokic
8. Embiid
9. Doncic
10. AD

joker is having one of the BEST offensive seasons ever. its crazy that there are players impacting the game similarly. even more crazy to suggest gobert, a net negative, is in that group

[RRR3]

joker is having one of the BEST offensive seasons ever. its crazy that there are players impacting the game similarly. even more crazy to suggest gobert, a net negative, is in that group
Xiao is the 3ball of Gobert fans. My list wasn’t in order btw

[Xiao Yao You]

Xiao is the 3ball of Gobert fans.

and you're the head Gobert troll

[RRR3]

So that makes him top 10 in offense? :roll:


Seriously please tell me which of these players you could POSSIBLY argue Toody over on offense:


1. LeBron
2. Curry
3. Durant
4. Harden
5. Kawhi
6. Giannis
7. Jokic
8. Embiid
9. Doncic
10. AD
Xiao?

[RRR3]

Trolls gone quiet.

[Xiao Yao You]

Trolls gone quiet.

I wish they would. Get a life! :cheers:

[RRR3]

I wish they would. Get a life! :cheers:
How come you can’t tell me which of the players I named Rudy is better than on offense? If you’re going to call him a top 10 offensive player you have to be able to back it up.

[Proctor]

Trolls are quiet tonight

[RRR3]

Trolls are quiet tonight
Literally all you have to do to shut Xiao up is ask him where Gobert ranks. Poor fella is petrified of admitting he thinks Gobert is the best player in the league (both overall and on offense)

[Xiao Yao You]

How come you can’t tell me which of the players I named Rudy is better than on offense? If you’re going to call him a top 10 offensive player you have to be able to back it up.

I gave you the numbers. Facts aren't your thing. Not much I can do

[RRR3]

I gave you the numbers. Facts aren't your thing. Not much I can do
None of your stats proved he’s top a 10 offensive player though, unless you think DeAndre Jordan and Clint Capela are two of the greatest offensive players of all time :lol

[Xiao Yao You]

None of your stats proved he’s top a 10 offensive player though, unless you think DeAndre Jordan and Clint Capela are two of the greatest offensive players of all time :lol

There's a lot more to offense than scoring. Stockton was a great offensive player without scoring. Gobert leads others to scoring just in a way that a troll wouldn't be able to get his feeble mind around

[RRR3]

There's a lot more to offense than scoring. Stockton was a great offensive player without scoring. Gobert leads others to scoring just in a way that a troll wouldn't be able to get his feeble mind around
Yeah but the thing with Stockton is impact stats actually said he was great on offense. If you’re great on offense it will be measurable. Give me your top 10 offensive players?

[Xiao Yao You]

Yeah but the thing with Stockton is impact stats actually said he was great on offense. If you’re great on offense it will be measurable. Give me your top 10 offensive players?

It's measured. I already provided you with the data. You want to keep ignoring it fine.

[RRR3]

It's measured. I already provided you with the data. You want to keep ignoring it fine.
All the offensive stats that he ranks highly in so do Deandre Jordan, Richaun Holmes and Clint Capela. Are they elite offensive players?

[Xiao Yao You]

All the offensive stats that he ranks highly in so do Deandre Jordan, Richaun Holmes and Clint Capela. Are they elite offensive players?

1st in dunks, 2nd in screen assists, 4th in offensive rebounds. He's the man. Why are you bringing up bench guys and role players?

[RRR3]

1st in dunks, 2nd in screen assists, 4th in offensive rebounds. He's the man. Why are you bringing up bench guys and role players?
Those guys literally have the same role as Rudy on offense you ****ing idiot.

[Xiao Yao You]

Jordan 22 minutes a game. Holmes 2.6 offensive rebounds a game. We're talking elite not your favorite scrubs

[RRR3]

Jordan 22 minutes a game. Holmes 2.6 offensive rebounds a game. We're talking elite not your favorite scrubs
So Capela is elite on offense?

[Xiao Yao You]

So Capela is elite on offense?

You'd have to give me his numbers. The fact that the Hawks weren't good most of the year I'd say no. Gobert leads a top 3 offense

[Xiao Yao You]

Actually when the Jazz destroyed the Hawks I noted here that Capela wasn't much of a lob threat without Harden. I know he sets less screens as everyone does and a quick look and sure enough he's not listed in anything but offensive rebounding. You're going to have to try to find someone that does it all like Gobert and you can't because he's the man as I said. The total package. If you combine all those guys maybe you get Gobert! :cheers:

[Manny98]

1st in dunks, 2nd in screen assists, 4th in offensive rebounds. He's the man. Why are you bringing up bench guys and role players?
So was Clippers DeAndre Jordan so he's elite offensively as well

[Xiao Yao You]

So was Clippers DeAndre Jordan so he's elite offensively as well

if you say so Manyy but your track record isn't so good

[Manny98]

if you say so Manyy but your track record isn't so good

If you say so because I am literally using your own logic against you :oldlol:

If Rudy is "elite" offensively then so is DJ :cheers:

[RRR3]

if you say so Manyy but your track record isn't so good
And yours is? You’ve said some of the dumbest things in ISH history.

[RRR3]

Trolls gone quiet.

[Manny98]

Trolls gone quiet.

He's backed himself into a corner, by claiming that Rudy is an elite offensive player he's also admitting that Clippers DeAndre was elite by his own standards of what makes a player elite on offense :oldlol: