How many titles would Prime Kobe win in place of Jordan?

[mehyaM24]

take kobe anywhere from 01-10. how many titles does he win in place of 91-98 jordan?

kobe and lebron both played in the toughest defensive era (03-04), so i think he would transition well. keep in mind the 90s had statistically weaker defenses. no disrespect to the 90s but i believe kobe would have destroyed dan majerle, drexler & byron scott.

[tpols]

I think he beats an injured Laker team in '91, and Clyde's squad in '92. Probably loses to Barkley in '93, Pippen shit the bed and Charles was a beast. Could definitely grab 2/3 from the Jazz and Sonics. So probably around 4 rings. I don't think he'd retire at any point though so he'd have some extra chances in the middle too.

[dankok8]

I think 3-4 is doable. Of course he wouldn't put up the same obscene numbers as MJ. But Kobe is still 90% of the player MJ was. A lot of the modern day teenage fanbase underrates Kobe. Like prime Kobe from 2006-2010 would be the best player in the current NBA IMO.

[Gudo]

My guess is around 3-4, more is not unlikely. Not just in the finals but the ecf might have posed problems for kobe in the playoffs. That kobe would be younger than mj, just to note.

[mehyaM24]

I think he beats an injured Laker team in '91, and Clyde's squad in '92. Probably loses to Barkley in '93, Pippen shit the bed and Charles was a beast. Could definitely grab 2/3 from the Jazz and Sonics. So probably around 4 rings. I don't think he'd retire at any point though so he'd have some extra chances in the middle too.

pippen averaged 21/8/7 shooting 44% from the field. dont think you can say he shit the bed with that statline. i also think you are underselling how poor the suns defense was

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zQAGYRjaIs#t=11m29

^^^this guy overdoes it a bit with the commentary but his general point is accurate.. no paint defense unlike what people exaggerate. isos & single coverage on almost every possession etc. kobe would annihilate the suns just like he did in 2010. he would probably have a career series against kj & majerle.

i think 4-5 championships is fair however. good point on kobe not retiring, and that leaving the door open for more. might sound like im roasting mj, but im really not. the last dance & media goat hype with lebron & jordan had me back in the lab watching footage again lol.. prime kobe would feast in the 90s. same with lebron

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

I think he beats an injured Laker team in '91, and Clyde's squad in '92. Probably loses to Barkley in '93, Pippen shit the bed and Charles was a beast. Could definitely grab 2/3 from the Jazz and Sonics. So probably around 4 rings. I don't think he'd retire at any point though so he'd have some extra chances in the middle too.

He'd have to get past the 92 Knicks first which took the bulls to 7 games and Pippen was trash in that series.

[mehyaM24]

He'd have to get past the 92 Knicks first which took the bulls to 7 games and Pippen was trash in that series.

call me crazy, but i like kobe's chances vs starks & mark jackson. kobe was more of a jumpshooter than jordan so i think he kills em in a different & more cerebral way.

[Airupthere]

Skillwise it is very close. Maybe it's more of a question of how well Kobe's intangibles fit into the team. Kobe would obviously lead or challenge the team in a different way that MJ did alongside Pippen. On court, Kobe would tend to sometimes force things even if they're not going his way. He also tends to sometimes play outside of the system and do more iso. Long term discipline and consistency will affect the team's overall capability to 3peat. Overall, I think Kobe would be a good fit and could probably win 4-5+ in those years without retirement.

[tpols]

Skillwise it is very close. Maybe it's more of a question of how well Kobe's intangibles fit into the team. Kobe would obviously lead or challenge the team in a different way that MJ did alongside Pippen. On court, Kobe would tend to sometimes force things even if they're not going his way. He also tends to sometimes play outside of the system and do more iso. Long term discipline and consistency will affect the team's overall capability to 3peat. Overall, I think Kobe would be a good fit and could probably win 4-5+ in those years without retirement.

People said that about MJ too before he started winning. They said Bird and Magic were > because they were better passers and team players. Magic beat MJ for league MVP 3/4 years before 1991.

[Airupthere]

People said that about MJ too before he started winning. They said Bird and Magic were > because they were better passers and team players. Magic beat MJ for league MVP 3/4 years before 1991.

During the earlier part of MJ's career yes. But from 91-98, they were running the triangle like a well oiled machine. Another thing I failed to mention is I think MJ is better overall defensively and that may be a significant factor to what they can achieve over that span.

[Rysio]

Every time kobe played on the best team in the league he won a ring so put him on the bulls with pippen, grant and rodman they would be the best team in the league every year. I think Kobe would have to completely choke to not win at least 5.

[90sgoat]

2-3 rings.

I think his best chances would be 1993 Suns and 1998 Jazz.

Kobe was not as tough as MJ and a far worse defensive player.

He would benefit the most from the high scoring 1993 series, in which he could gun out with an experienced Bulls team.

In 1998, he would again be expected to score all the time and do little else.

He would definitely lose against Magic, tossup against Portland. Would lose to 1997 Jazz and would lose to Seattle.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

call me crazy, but i like kobe's chances vs starks & mark jackson. kobe was more of a jumpshooter than jordan so i think he kills em in a different & more cerebral way.

You're crazy because that's all he did was take jump shots that series,the announcers even showed it on the screen.Knicks prevented them from getting to the basket and if they did they'd have to pay for it.Pat Riley disciplined them to get into shape and would fine any player that let an opponent score easy baskets at the rim.

[Mavsmalt]

I strongly believe that kobe would win 5 rings and 3 mvps. I think that mamba would figure out earlier than mj that to win the bad boy pistons kobe would have to gain more muscles. So, I think that he would win the pistons more times than michael jordan sur to his mentality. Now, I do not think that kobe would win the karl malone, john stockton duo. That is the particular reason that I think that he would win 5 chips.

[Micku]

I think he beats an injured Laker team in '91, and Clyde's squad in '92. Probably loses to Barkley in '93, Pippen shit the bed and Charles was a beast. Could definitely grab 2/3 from the Jazz and Sonics. So probably around 4 rings. I don't think he'd retire at any point though so he'd have some extra chances in the middle too.

I think 92, 93, and 98 would be the toughest.

92 would be Knicks and Portland. The defense was crazy with the Knicks and pushed him to seven games. And Portland was very talented.

I'm not too sure if they get pass the Knicks in 93 or beat the Suns. MJ had to go off on the Suns. I dunno if Kobe could do the same thing.

And 98, everybody was old and injured.

There are some series that might be tougher too. Like the 91 Lakers would be a tougher. 97 would be interesting with the Heat, but I'm sure they could pull it off. The Jazz might be tougher.

[Smoke117]

I think he beats an injured Laker team in '91, and Clyde's squad in '92. Probably loses to Barkley in '93, Pippen shit the bed and Charles was a beast. Could definitely grab 2/3 from the Jazz and Sonics. So probably around 4 rings. I don't think he'd retire at any point though so he'd have some extra chances in the middle too.

Tfools at it again. Pippen played just fine in the 93 finals. His efficiency ended up not being good, but that was basically from one game where he took 35 shots and couldn't hit anything. Either way, 21.2ppg 9.2rpg 7.7apg while being the best defensive player on the team isn't "shitting the bed".

[tpols]

Tfools at it again. Pippen played just fine in the 93 finals. His efficiency ended up not being good, but that was basically from one game where he took 35 shots and couldn't hit anything. Either way, 21.2ppg 9.2rpg 7.7apg while being the best defensive player on the team isn't "shitting the bed".

Pippy Poo always tried playing tough and stepping to Barkley and he got rocked. Don't make me lose my patience.

[Smoke117]

Pippy Poo always tried playing tough and stepping to Barkley and he got rocked. Don't make me lose my patience.

lol not really


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SGe-vp_l8U

[Axe]

Pippy Poo always tried playing tough and stepping to Barkley and he got rocked. Don't make me lose my patience.
Looks like that's the lecture 3ball has given you before.

[mehyaM24]

You're crazy because that's all he did was take jump shots that series,the announcers even showed it on the screen.Knicks prevented them from getting to the basket and if they did they'd have to pay for it.Pat Riley disciplined them to get into shape and would fine any player that let an opponent score easy baskets at the rim.

jordan took jumpers, of course. but that isn't ALL he did. pull up games 1, 5 and 7 from that series. jordan had a number of drives & layups that he either converted or was fouled on. regardless of that "stiff defense" jordan still was able to average 30 & shot over 47% from the field. kobe is a comparable jumpshooter, but was also better from the line and 3.

don't see how ny make it more difficult than one of the mid 2000 defenses kobe faced. routinely. kobe also played tougher playoff defenses on average.

[Micku]

jordan took jumpers, of course. but that isn't ALL he did. pull up games 1, 5 and 7 from that series. jordan had a number of drives & layups that he either converted or was fouled on. regardless of that "stiff defense" jordan still was able to average 30 & shot over 47% from the field. kobe is a comparable jumpshooter, but was also better from the line and 3.

don't see how ny make it more difficult than one of the mid 2000 defenses kobe faced. routinely. kobe also played tougher playoff defenses on average.

I would say it's more how they got their shots really.

MJ was much quicker to attack and had more lift with his jumpers due to his crazy vert and hang time, so it was harder to contest.

Kobe get into more of a flow to get into his rhythm. Sometimes it leads to bad shots more often than MJ. While Kobe is comparable of a jumpshooter, I think with the shot selection, the % is gonn'a dip. He isn't as good as MJ with it. It depends on how hot Kobe is.

But it's flip of the coin tbh. 50/50. Like if MJ had it tough, Kobe most likely would.

[SATAN]

I'm sure Pippen would carry Kobe to a few chips, as he did for MJ.

[light]

take kobe anywhere from 01-10. how many titles does he win in place of 91-98 jordan?

kobe and lebron both played in the toughest defensive era (03-04), so i think he would transition well. keep in mind the 90s had statistically weaker defenses. no disrespect to the 90s but i believe kobe would have destroyed dan majerle, drexler & byron scott.

4 titles.

All of the problems with Jordan were magnified with Kobe.

[999Guy]

91 - title

92 and 93 Knicks knock him the hell out B2B. No shot against those defenses.

94 and 95 Hakeem devastates him and Chicago on both ends. B2B.

THIS is assuming he even beats Orlando in 95 which....I think he does. Kobe destroyed weaker defenses by that point in his playoff career. Elite ones definitely got to him though.


96 - title

97 and 98 get extremely dicey. Especially 98. He probably loses to Indiana tbh.

97 Bulls/Jazz finals were extremely close. It was basically a toss-up series that happened to end in 6. Think 19 Warriors/Rockets.


I really, really, don’t believe they win either year. Late Prime Jordan was just better than Kobe on both ends. I really believe defensively more than offensively too.


2 titles. Maybe 3. 4 if he’s extremely lucky. But he really only had the skill and ability to guarantee two championships IMO.

[HoopsNY]

Kobe was a hit or miss in the playoffs and finals. Are people forgetting that? His 2000 finals was abysmal, his 2001 finals wasn't great, his 2004 finals was atrocious.

In big games, he was really hit or miss.

Kobe in Game 7s: 22/8/5 on 39%
MJ in Game 7s: 34/7/7 on 46%

Kobe Playoffs 2000-10: 28/5.5/5 on 54% TS%
MJ Playoffs 1991-98: 33/6/5 on 56% TS%

Kobe Finals: 25/6/5 on 41%
MJ Finals: 34/6/6 on 48%

Having said that, I'd say they win in 1991, 1997, and maybe 1998 with Kobe.

[2much_knowledge]

4. It would take him longer to buy into being unselfish and kobe plays better with a high profile big man which chicagi lacked

[kawhileonard2]

I don't think any rings. He never led his team in PER and Win Shares.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

jordan took jumpers, of course. but that isn't ALL he did. pull up games 1, 5 and 7 from that series. jordan had a number of drives & layups that he either converted or was fouled on. regardless of that "stiff defense" jordan still was able to average 30 & shot over 47% from the field. kobe is a comparable jumpshooter, but was also better from the line and 3.

don't see how ny make it more difficult than one of the mid 2000 defenses kobe faced. routinely. kobe also played tougher playoff defenses on average.
The only ones that come to mind are the 04 Pistons & Spurs

[LAL]

Imagine posting up weak smaller sg's/pg's on an island everytime because of that illegal defense rule. Kobe did it against much better competition, with lesser physical gifts than MJ. Not saying kobe ranks higher.. but it is what it is.

[KingMambaFan]

2-3 rings

[Chick Stern]

Kobe would win 8 because he wouldn’t quit, or be suspended.

[Axe]

Imagine posting up weak smaller sg's/pg's on an island everytime because of that illegal defense rule. Kobe did it against much better competition, with lesser physical gifts than MJ. Not saying kobe ranks higher.. but it is what it is.
So how many rings did he have without the zen master?

[HoopsNY]

Imagine posting up weak smaller sg's/pg's on an island everytime because of that illegal defense rule. Kobe did it against much better competition, with lesser physical gifts than MJ. Not saying kobe ranks higher.. but it is what it is.

Imagine being a lazy sack of lard to not even investigate your own presuppositions before you post them as assertions. I mean, Kobe faced off against guys like

Ray Allen - 6'4"-6'5" (2x)
Reggie Miller - 6'7"
Allen Iverson - 6'0"-6'1"
Kerry Kittles - 6'5"
Rip Hamilton - 6'5"-6'6"
Lee/Reddick - 6'4"-6'5" & 6'3"-6'4"

The only one here that matches Kobe's size is Miller. And Reggie weighed 177 lbs to Kobe's 200 lbs in 2000. Kittles was 175 lbs at the time in 2002 to Kobe's 210.

[LAL]

Imagine being a lazy sack of lard to not even investigate your own presuppositions before you post them as assertions. I mean, Kobe faced off against guys like

Ray Allen - 6'4"-6'5" (2x)
Reggie Miller - 6'7"
Allen Iverson - 6'0"-6'1"
Kerry Kittles - 6'5"
Rip Hamilton - 6'5"-6'6"
Lee/Reddick - 6'4"-6'5" & 6'3"-6'4"

The only one here that matches Kobe's size is Miller. And Reggie weighed 177 lbs to Kobe's 200 lbs in 2000. Kittles was 175 lbs at the time in 2002 to Kobe's 210.

You think Kobe was only guarded by SG's or? I wasn't talking about the finals only, even tough you didn't mention guys like Posey, Pierce, Pietrus, Rose, Prince, Tony Allen etc. for some reason. Kobe had to face more challenges from defense than Mike, imo.

[G0ATbe]

At least 7. Kobe isn’t taking baseball hiatuses and he’d eat that illegal defense expansion league alive. Not to mention you’re giving a guy that won multiple championships with just Gasoft , the most stacked team of the decade.

[light]

Kobe would win 8 because he wouldn’t quit, or be suspended.

But he's a lot worse than Jordan so he wouldn't win 8. He'd win something like 3 or 4 even if he didn't quit or wasn't suspended because he's not anywhere near as good, or as efficient or as productive.

[3ball]

Kobe's playing style (less efficiency, more Iverson-like) and leadership style doesn't fit with a perimeter player like Pippen.

so Pippen doesn't develop like he did under Jordan or play as well - he'd be more like he was in houston if he played with kobe

Furthermore, there were many times where Kobe needed his sidekick to dominate down the stretch, like Gasol did in the 10' Finals, or Shaq many times..

But Pippen never dominated... Ever... He simply isn't nearly the help that Kobe needed, or anyone else for that matter

Pippen's peak of 22 ppg is 6 to 10 points less than elite 1st options like Wade, AD, Kobe, Curry, etc - so he was a true 2nd option, and therefore inferior to elite 1st option sidekicks that every other top 10 player enjoyed.. Only Jordan lacked an elite 1st option sidekick - he was stuck with Pippen and an inferior team defense (bulls had the #7 defense during the 1st three-peat, or inferior to 2 of 3 Finals opponents, and 2 of 3 ECF opponents)

[8Ball]

6 rings.

[3ball]

6 rings.


Kobe is like everyone else

Everyone in history needed an equal-scoring partner (1b) for half of their rings except the goat, who won 6 rings with a true 2nd option that averaged far less in every playoffs.

Teammate scoring matters because equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only MJ faced "1-man team" defensive attention for his entire career, (thus giving maximum integrity to his stats and rings).. Kenny Smith talks about MJ being the only 1-man show here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s).

Ultimately, Pippen's peak of 22 ppg is 6 to 10 points less than elite 1st options like Wade, AD, Kobe, Curry, etc - so he was a true 2nd option, and therefore inferior to the elite 1st option sidekicks, equal-scoring partners and FMVP teammates that every other top 10 player enjoyed.. Only Jordan lacked an elite 1st option as sidekick - he was stuck with Pippen and an inferior team defense (#7 defense during 1st three-peat - inferior to ECF and Finals opponents).

everyone that won 3 Finals needed a teammate to win FMVP or average 25 ppg for at least 1 of the Finals.. But Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg, so only MJ could win 3 or 3-peat with Pippen.

[8Ball]

Kobe is like everyone else

Everyone in history needed an equal-scoring partner (1b) for half of their rings except the goat, who won 6 rings with a true 2nd option that averaged far less in every playoffs.

Teammate scoring matters because equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only MJ faced "1-man team" defensive attention for his entire career, (thus giving maximum integrity to his stats and rings).. Kenny Smith talks about MJ being the only 1-man show here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s).

Ultimately, Pippen's peak of 22 ppg is 6 to 10 points less than elite 1st options like Wade, AD, Kobe, Curry, etc - so he was a true 2nd option, and therefore inferior to the elite 1st option sidekicks, equal-scoring partners and FMVP teammates that every other top 10 player enjoyed.. Only Jordan lacked an elite 1st option as sidekick - he was stuck with Pippen and an inferior team defense (#7 defense during 1st three-peat - inferior to ECF and Finals opponents).

everyone that won 3 Finals needed a teammate to win FMVP or average 25 ppg for at least 1 of the Finals.. But Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg, so only MJ could win 3 or 3-peat with Pippen.



Wrong.

Kobe is mentally tougher than Jordan ever was and would not have retired because he was mentally tired, or give up basketball because he didn't have Pippen or Phil Jackson anymore. Imagine Kobe retiring in 2004 because Shaq left and Phil Jackson left? :roll:


Kobe is mentally tough like LeBron. Kobe would probably win more than 6 rings in you replaced Jordan with Kobe.

[3ball]

Wrong.

Kobe is mentally tougher than Jordan ever was and would not have retired because he was mentally tired, or give up basketball because he didn't have Pippen or Phil Jackson anymore. Imagine Kobe retiring in 2004 because Shaq left and Phil Jackson left? :roll:


Kobe is mentally tough like LeBron. Kobe would probably win more than 6 rings in you replaced Jordan with Kobe.


Only Jordan's unprecedented dominance and winning allowed him to retire in 1993.

If he failed to 3-peat and lost to Barkley, he would never have retired

He would've had to trudge forward like when Kobe/Wade failed to 3-peat in 11' and 14'

[BarberSchool]

2-3
Keep in mind hand checking a perimeter player at all times, even during his drive, was completely legal back then. Also paint defense was allowed to be much much more brutal. Kobe would likely have several more injuries thru the attempted title run.

[Doranku]

Only Jordan's unprecedented dominance and winning allowed him to retire in 1993.

If he failed to 3-peat and lost to Barkley, he would never have retired

He would've had to trudge forward like when Kobe/Wade failed to 3-peat in 11' and 14'

Why didn't Shaq retire after 2002?

[BarberSchool]

wrong.

Kobe is mentally tougher than jordan ever was and would not have retired because he was mentally tired.

kobe is mentally tough like lebron. Kobe would probably win more than 6 rings in you replaced jordan with kobe.lmmfao

[3ball]

Why didn't Shaq retire after 2002?


His dad wasn't murdered and he didn't have unprecedented dominance all 3 years (only in 00'), or earlier in his career (no 63 points.. no 37 ppg... no scoring champ & dpoy)

So Mike's situation was entirely unique to him

When did anyone average 41 in the Finals or 36/7/8 in the 3 Finals - it sounds fake

so it was obvious that the 3-peat was the best anyone had ever seen and when his dad got murdered, he felt like he could retire.. he actually wasn't planning on coming back.. he was done because there was nothing else to accomplish (his 3-peat was considered better than any accomplishment of Bird or Magic)

[HBK_Kliq_2]

All Kobe had to is replace Shaq with Pau Gasol and he pretty much got the same exact results. The only difference was 2008 finals loss because that Celtics team was the Curry/Durant warriors of the 2000s. Shaq/Kobe or Jordan/Pippen never had to play a east finals team with a trio as good as Kg\pierce/Allen and also with young rondo! 2008 Celtics team was legit. LeBron didn't beat those Celtics until they were all washed up with a bottom 3 offense.

Having said that, I got Kobe winning 4 rings and losing in 1993 and 1998.

[mehyaM24]

jordan molding pippen has to be one of the biggest myths out there. pure propaganda by the jordan camp.

not only did pippen have his best seasons without jordan, but why weren't there anymore pippen's? jordan never made another one? truth is pippen was a top 10 player in the 90s. borderline top 5 and mvp candidate while jordan was retired. replace gasol with pippen & kobe would be seen as the jordan of his era.

[HoopsNY]

You think Kobe was only guarded by SG's or? I wasn't talking about the finals only, even tough you didn't mention guys like Posey, Pierce, Pietrus, Rose, Prince, Tony Allen etc. for some reason. Kobe had to face more challenges from defense than Mike, imo.

Posey? How often was that?

Rose? You can't be serious.

Pierce was past his defensive prime during those finals.

Prince? Sorry but the toothpick list and quality of defensive players goes down after Tony Allen.

How many All-Defensive players do you have here besides Allen? MJ faced Moncrief, Starks, Dumars, Payton, and Majerle. You see the difference? These guys are multiple All-Defensive players, DPOY candidates, or won a DPOY.

[8Ball]

Only Jordan's unprecedented dominance and winning allowed him to retire in 1993.

If he failed to 3-peat and lost to Barkley, he would never have retired

He would've had to trudge forward like when Kobe/Wade failed to 3-peat in 11' and 14'

Wrong.

Shaq didn't retire and wasn't mentally "fatigued" after 2002.

Bill Russell never retired after just 3 championships.

Jordan did not have Kobe levels of mental toughness.

[mehyaM24]

All Kobe had to is replace Shaq with Pau Gasol and he pretty much got the same exact results. The only difference was 2008 finals loss because that Celtics team was the Curry/Durant warriors of the 2000s. Shaq/Kobe or Jordan/Pippen never had to play a east finals team with a trio as good as Kg\pierce/Allen and also with young rondo! 2008 Celtics team was legit. LeBron didn't beat those Celtics until they were all washed up with a bottom 3 offense.

Having said that, I got Kobe winning 4 rings and losing in 1993 and 1998.

why do you think kobe loses in 1993? not hating but i don't see the logic behind it. 93 is one of the easier & safe bets for kobe imo - who would have torched dan marjle & kj. watching footage from that series again, you'll notice iso after iso & open lanes everywhere. phoenix had zero interior defense.

prime kobe would've had one of his BEST series against them. no joke.

[dankok8]

MJ wasn't mentally fatigued. His father got killed in cold blood... He wanted to play baseball because it was his dad's favorite sport.

[Hey Yo]

MJ wasn't mentally fatigued. His father got killed in cold blood... He wanted to play baseball because it was his dad's favorite sport.

He said himself in the documentary that he was mentally exhausted before the 93 season was over. He and his dad talked retirement also before that season was over

[dankok8]

He said himself in the documentary that he was mentally exhausted before the 93 season was over. He and his dad talked retirement also before that season was over

If his dad didn't die I don't think he retires.

[Hey Yo]

If his dad didn't die I don't think he retires.

But he did say he was mentally exhausted and the silly notion "I have no more challenges"

1998 speech he also said he was mentally exhausted and was a factor to him quitting again.

Probably be the first and last player ever to quit the year after winning league MVP and FMVP

[Reggie43]

He probably wins 2, 3 if he is extremely lucky. There would be a year or two that Pippen is arguably better than him or atleast equal so I wonder how the chemistry works out then?

[dankok8]

But he did say he was mentally exhausted and the silly notion "I have no more challenges"

1998 speech he also said he was mentally exhausted and was a factor to him quitting again.

Probably be the first and last player ever to quit the year after winning league MVP and FMVP

Yea. He felt he proved everything he need to prove in that moment in 1993. He didn't feel like playing basketball after his dad was killed. My father died 18 months ago so I know how it feels. I still wake up some mornings so depressed thinking about him. I could barely go to work. It takes time to process a loss especially for MJ whose father died so unexpectedly. I wish that no one on this forum experiences a loved one being killed. It doesn't matter how competitive you are. The game doesn't feel the same. Life doesn't feel the same. Being mentally exhausted yet took up another professional sport, one that he never even completed it before? If he was exhausted he wouldn't play any sport.

[8Ball]

Jordan said himself he was mentally fatigued.


Physically I was getting exhausted but mentally I was way past exhausted

Imagine Shaq saying he was exhausted mentally after his 3peat. Kobe? LeBron went to 9 finals in 10 years and you hear about him complain about being physically exhausted? :biggums:

End of story.

[RRR3]

Idk probably like 10 or something considering Kobe wouldn’t retire twice prematurely.

[LeCramp]

Jordan said himself he was mentally fatigued.



Imagine Shaq saying he was exhausted mentally after his 3peat. Kobe? LeBron went to 9 finals in 10 years and you hear about him complain about being physically exhausted? :biggums:

End of story.

Bro whats there to exhausted about when you join a SUPER TEAM and play i the weak EAST 98% of your career?

[8Ball]

Bro whats there to exhausted about when you join a SUPER TEAM and play i the weak EAST 98% of your career?

Name me 1 super team / dynasty Jordan played against in the 90s?

Anything as good as 2012 OKC?

Larry Bird played against all time great teams in the 80s and never moaned and whined about being mentally tired. Magic neither. :roll:

Jordan made the playoffs in the East with 32 wins :lol. When was the last time a team in the East made the playoffs with 32 wins during LeBron's 18 years?

Another Jordan stan owned by 8ball.

[Rysio]

He probably wins 2, 3 if he is extremely lucky. There would be a year or two that Pippen is arguably better than him or atleast equal so I wonder how the chemistry works out then?
:facepalm

[Boris Pen]

None

[WhiteKyrie]

This thread has probably been done a million times before. Which Kobe? 1998 - 2005 Kobe? Or 2006 - 2013 Kobe?

In general, just the exact years Michael played, and not the ones he missed, I’d probably go as so:

91 - Chip
92 - No Chip
93 - No Chip
95 - No Chip
96 - No Chip
97 - No Chip
98 - No Chip

Given Kobe’s play style and what he was known to struggle with, which was slow, grind it out, physical half court defenses, which is why he generally didn’t have as good of Finals showing against certain teams in the East. Then the 92 Knicks, 93 Knicks, 96 Sonics, 97 Heat, 97 Jazz, 98 Pacers and 98 Jazz would give MASSIVE problems. That’s not hyperbole either. He just struggled against physical defenses under even softer rule sets.

With that said, I also see the 1996 Magic giving a Kobe led Bulls team problems before the physicality and defense of the 1996 Sonics in the Finals.

Now, if Kobe is on the 1994 Bulls, they easily win a chip. But after losing Grant in 95? Can’t see it. And I don’t see him keeping Rodman in line in the ensuing years given his at times suspect leadership.

[Axe]

None
He has more actual rings than the pacers tho

[dankok8]

Name me 1 super team / dynasty Jordan played against in the 90s?

Anything as good as 2012 OKC?

Larry Bird played against all time great teams in the 80s and never moaned and whined about being mentally tired. Magic neither. :roll:

Jordan made the playoffs in the East with 32 wins :lol. When was the last time a team in the East made the playoffs with 32 wins during LeBron's 18 years?

Another Jordan stan owned by 8ball.

You didn't own anyone. Your takes are so bad that people don't even bother responding most of the time.

[clipps]

You didn't own anyone. Your takes are so bad that people don't even bother responding most of the time.

This. I'm not even a Jordan stan. I think it's pointless and pretty beta to worship another man like a lot of these Jordan/LeBitch/Kobe/etc. stans.

[3ball]

This. I'm not even a Jordan stan. I think it's pointless and pretty beta to worship another man like a lot of these Jordan/LeBitch/Kobe/etc. stans.


It's super-beta to watch today's NBA and think it's good

It's soft AF and I could never watch it.. i can only ridicule it and analyze how bad it is for fun.. it's so bad that these are the creative things I must do to still consume and enjoy the game despite the league's destruction of it