2000 - present biggest playoff carry jobs (PPG + Win Share 48)

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Formula: I added up PPG + Win Share per 48 and i compared it to the 2nd best player on the title teams. In order to qualify, you must play at least 300 minutes during playoff run and you must be at least over +3. Nobody on the 2007 spurs, 2008 celtics, 2001 lakers, 2014 spurs, 2020 lakers were good enough to qualify (less then +3).


2019 raptors - Kawhi Leonard +21
2016 Cavs - Lebron James +7
2015 Warriors - Stephen Curry +15
2013 Heat - Lebron James +5
2012 Heat - Lebron James +17
2011 Mavs - Dirk Nowitzki +12
2010 Lakers - Kobe Bryant +6
2009 Lakers - Kobe Bryant +14
2006 Heat - Dwyane Wade +18
2005 Spurs - Manu Ginobili +3
2004 Pistons - Richard Hamilton +4
2003 Spurs - Tim Duncan +18
2002 Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal +11
2000 Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal +20

[AussieSteve]

Man Kawhi's 2019 raps cast was stacked wasn't it!?

Lowry, Siakam, Gasol. FVV and Ibaka off the bench. 3&D legend Danny Green!

Essentially 4 current/former/future all stars, and two role more role players who provided All-D defense and great role player scoring.

And of course the warriors were so depleted.

Not sure your analysis demonstrates it that well, but full points for effort. Kawhi's +21 cast in 2019 was the most stacked versus his competition since 2000.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Man Kawhi's 2019 raps cast was stacked wasn't it!?

Lowry, Siakam, Gasol. FVV and Ibaka off the bench. 3&D legend Danny Green!

Essentially 4 current/former/future all stars, and two role more role players who provided All-D defense and great role player scoring.

And of course the warriors were so depleted.

Not sure your analysis demonstrates it that well, but full points for effort. Kawhi's +21 cast in 2019 was the most stacked versus his competition since 2000.

Warriors were not anymore depleted then 2016 Warriors and people worship Lebron for that run despite being just +7. Kawhi in 2019 was able to triple Lebron's 2016! 7 to 21.

[tpols]

Warriors were not anymore depleted then 2016 Warriors and people worship Lebron for that run despite being just +7. Kawhi in 2019 was able to triple Lebron's 2016! 7 to 21.

Of course they were. Klay got hurt in the middle of an elimination game he was going off in. The Warriors at full strength would have swept the Raptors.

[Kblaze8855]

You are way too close to this happening for people not to remember Steph fighting for his life with some random dudes who couldn’t shoot in 2019. No KD is one thing...banged up Klay and who eventually destroyed himself totally?

You will get a better reception to this idea in 20 years when kids born 5 years ago won’t remember watching those finals bored and wishing it wasn’t ruined by injury. Nothing you have to say will make people forget that bum ass ruined series including lying about 2016 being the same thing.

Youre just a really dedicated homer who doesn’t seem to know basketball or sports in general very well. I knew that when you said Leonard was NFL strong because he could legpress 600 pounds. I don’t know when I could do that but I bet I wasn’t more than 17. Fat kids in high school banging out 900 pound reps on the leg press.

Just one of those “This guy has no clue about athletic activities” moments.

[SouBeachTalents]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLrF20b1T7M&ab_channel=SmartHighlights

Klay was the best player on the floor and looked like we were heading toward a Game 7 where the Raptors would have had ALL the pressure on them, with the Warriors already winning twice in Toronto that series to boot

[tpols]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLrF20b1T7M&ab_channel=SmartHighlights

Klay was the best player on the floor and it looked like we were heading toward a Game 7 where the Raptors would have had ALL the pressure on them, and with the Warriors already winning twice in Toronto that series

Yup... he was finally going off when it mattered again. Toronto simply lucked out. I remember the one quarter Durant came back the Raptors looked like they didn't even belong in the same gym as the Dubs.

[Kblaze8855]

Obviously your ring still counts with injury. Nobody throws out the Warriors 2015 even though they literally didn’t face one healthy starting point those playoffs(which is fairly amazing). Pistons still count despite Magic being hurt. The ring counts....you just lose some of the bragging rights for how you beat _____ when they don’t have the people who made them so unbeatable.

[Axe]

Never forget that two players in the list drafted since 2009 have blown 3-1 leads in the postseason

[tpols]

Obviously your ring still counts with injury. Nobody throws out the Warriors 2015 even though they literally didn’t face one healthy starting point those playoffs(which is fairly amazing). Pistons still count despite Magic being hurt. The ring counts....you just lose some of the bragging rights for how you beat _____ when they don’t have the people who made them so unbeatable.

The warriors beat the cavs in game 1 when Kyrie was still good and playing well. He had the best splits on the team that game, and Cleveland still lost. So it's a misconception they would have beat Golden State even if healthy.

[Kblaze8855]

The lakers beat the Bulls in game 1 in 91 even with Jordan. Doesn’t mean if he goes down it doesn’t matter. Same as in 89. The Pistons won game one with healthy Magic and won game two he played most of. Doesn’t mean you can’t acknowledge Magic only played a game and a half of that series.

Its not about who would have won. I don’t assume it and It doesn’t matter. That the players in many series weren’t there is just how it is and it will always color the perception of the winner. At least to be old enough to have see it go down. Nobody wants to see “Showtime” without Magic, Steph with no KD and injured Klay, or Lebron and those random dudes in 2015 and hear idiots talking about how they beat _____. I distinctly remember watching the finals without Magic. They say they beat the Lakers but.....Cmon.

I saw that boring ass series. The same jersey does not make them showtime. And the 2019 Warriors were not the real Warriors. We all saw that bullshit ruined finals.

Just is what it is.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Of course they were. Klay got hurt in the middle of an elimination game he was going off in. The Warriors at full strength would have swept the Raptors.

Klay was playing in game 1 and lost
Klay was playing in game 4 and lost
Klay started game 6 and lost

He lost in 3 different games he started. Raptors would of won the series 4-1 if Kevin Durant never returned. Game 5 Raptors were literally a Kyle Lowry shot away from closing the series, you take away Durant's points and raptors win series 4-1.

Injurys are part of the game anyway. Durant warriors were down 2-3 until Chris Paul got injured and they beat spurs when Kawhi didn't even play.

[tpols]

If Lebron is dropping 44 points, and Kyrie is being super efficient and they still lose, it's fair to assume they would've lost anyway.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

You are way too close to this happening for people not to remember Steph fighting for his life with some random dudes who couldn’t shoot in 2019. No KD is one thing...banged up Klay and who eventually destroyed himself totally?

You will get a better reception to this idea in 20 years when kids born 5 years ago won’t remember watching those finals bored and wishing it wasn’t ruined by injury. Nothing you have to say will make people forget that bum ass ruined series including lying about 2016 being the same thing.

Youre just a really dedicated homer who doesn’t seem to know basketball or sports in general very well. I knew that when you said Leonard was NFL strong because he could legpress 600 pounds. I don’t know when I could do that but I bet I wasn’t more than 17. Fat kids in high school banging out 900 pound reps on the leg press.

Just one of those “This guy has no clue about athletic activities” moments.

Banged up Klay is no worse then suspended Draymond in 2016 and that's my point. The advanced stats say that Draymond is more important to Warriors then Klay from 2015-present and it's not even close.

Klay also started in 3 losses and only missed a quarter in those losses, that's much less significant then Irving missing the entire 2015 finals.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

If Lebron is dropping 44 points, and Kyrie is being super efficient and they still lose, it's fair to assume they would've lost anyway.

If Chris Paul didn't hurt his hamstring, you never would of been there in the first place in 2018.

2019 raptors never trailed in the series vs warriors
2018 warrriors were down 2-3 in the series vs rockets

[tpols]

If Chris Paul didn't hurt his hamstring, you never would of been there in the first place in 2018.

2019 raptors never trailed in the series vs warriors
2018 warrriors were down 2-3 in the series vs rockets

That's one major injury. Warrior's had two. Give Kawhi "5 PPG" Dray as his second best player and he wouldn't win a single game. Let alone a series.

[Kblaze8855]

If Lebron is dropping 44 points, and Kyrie is being super efficient and they still lose, it's fair to assume they would've lost anyway.

That isn’t how basketball works. Not that it matters anyway. I don’t care who you think wins that series. I care about it being a garbage ass ruined finals that turned into an unfair matchup. Kevin Love wasn’t playing either and in 2015 he was closer to the real Kevin Love. Nobody wants to see Michael, Magic, or Bird without both of their best teammates. It’s just a lame end of the season no matter who is playing.

[Axe]

Banged up Klay is no worse then suspended Draymond in 2016 and that's my point. The advanced stats say that Draymond is more important to Warriors then Klay from 2015-present and it's not even close.

Klay also started in 3 losses and only missed a quarter in those losses, that's much less significant then Irving missing the entire 2015 finals.
Kyrie irving missed the entire 2015 finals? Am i reading this right?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLrF20b1T7M&ab_channel=SmartHighlights

Klay was the best player on the floor and looked like we were heading toward a Game 7 where the Raptors would have had ALL the pressure on them, with the Warriors already winning twice in Toronto that series to boot

He has one 2nd team and one 3rd team all nba in his career and averaged over 20PPG in playoffs just 1 time in his career. Relax, you act like Klay is Jordan.

Kawhi took that bum out for the last 2 years now. Tell him to go cry to his Spider-Man girlfriend hahaha

If anything, kawhi was putting so much pressure on Klay to perform at a level he wasn't capable of and that's why he hurt himself.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kyrie irving missed the entire 2015 finals? Am i reading this right?

You can't read, so I don't you can read anything right. But yeah he pretty much injured himself in game 1.

[SouBeachTalents]

That isn’t how basketball works. Not that it matters anyway. I don’t care who you think wins that series. I care about it being a garbage ass ruined finals that turned into an unfair matchup. Kevin Love wasn’t playing either and in 2015 he was closer to the real Kevin Love. Nobody wants to see Michael, Magic, or Bird without both of their best teammates. It’s just a lame end of the season no matter who is playing.
The craziest thing too is a '17 or '18 LeBron just might've been able to steal that championship, his brick laying 2015 version was simply too inefficient to carry that unprecedented offensive burden

[999Guy]

Winshares already counts PPG.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kblaze, kawhi does come off like he has NFL physical strength by the way. The weight he squats is like 600 pounds despite having 7"1 length, players always bounce off him when he's posting up, he can defend LeBron.

Also Kawhi's dad looked like a NFL defensive lineman big ass guy, so he has the strength genetics.

[RRR3]

The craziest thing too is a '17 or '18 LeBron just might've been able to steal that championship, his brick laying 2015 version was simply too inefficient to carry that unprecedented offensive burden
Pretty much any other version of LeBron post 2008 probably wins that championship something was seriously wrong with his shot in 15. Back problems maybe. And I am positive 14, 17 or 18 LeBron (consistent jumpers) win that series.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

The craziest thing too is a '17 or '18 LeBron just might've been able to steal that championship, his brick laying 2015 version was simply too inefficient to carry that unprecedented offensive burden

Kawhi in 2017 looked more capable, he was actually blowing KD Warriors out before injury and he had a 2018 cavs level supporting cast.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Winshares already counts PPG.

There's defensive win shares as well though. It also loves turnover %. so guys like Jordan and Kawhi thrive in the stat.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kblaze, kawhi does come off like he has NFL physical strength by the way. The weight he squats is like 600 pounds despite having 7"1 length, players always bounce off him when he's posting up, he can defend LeBron.

Also Kawhi's dad looked like a NFL defensive lineman big ass guy, so he has the strength genetics.
The hell position would Kawhi play? He doesn't look like he'd have the physical attributes for any of them

[tpols]

That isn’t how basketball works. Not that it matters anyway. I don’t care who you think wins that series. I care about it being a garbage ass ruined finals that turned into an unfair matchup. Kevin Love wasn’t playing either and in 2015 he was closer to the real Kevin Love. Nobody wants to see Michael, Magic, or Bird without both of their best teammates. It’s just a lame end of the season no matter who is playing.

That... kind of is how basketball works. If your best players are going off and you still lose... it's fair to assume the opposing team has a greater chance at winning. Kevin Love, Kyrie, and Lebron were also all good to go in the regular season and only won 53 games to the Dub's 67. There were articles hampering on Love's role literally a month deep into the regular season commenting on how he went from rugged rebounding champ and post player to ***** skinny spot up shooter. So I can't agree with that last statement.

[tpols]

Kyrie irving missed the entire 2015 finals? Am i reading this right?

No... that's a lie. A lot of people have repeated it so it's become a common misconception but Kyrie DID play in game 1, and he had a better ORTG and DRTG than Lebron. And they still lost. And the Warriors being noobs to the biggest stage looked like they were playing scared. And they still won.

[Axe]

No... that's a lie. A lot of people have repeated it so it's become a common misconception but Kyrie DID play in game 1, and he had a better ORTG and DRTG than Lebron. And they still lost. And the Warriors being noobs to the biggest stage looked like they were playing scared. And they still won.
I mean i asked the question because of hbk dimwit's statement earlier

[Kblaze8855]

That... kind of is how basketball works. If your best players are going off and you still lose... it's fair to assume the opposing team has a greater chance at winning. Kevin Love, Kyrie, and Lebron were also all good to go in the regular season and only won 53 games to the Dub's 67. There were articles hampering on Love's role literally a month deep into the regular season commenting on how he went from rugged rebounding champ and post player to ***** skinny spot up shooter. So I can't agree with that last statement.


It isn’t how nba series work. There’s a reason they play 7 times. You might win and lose by 30 in the same week. Game 1 is game 1. Every win makes the series win more likely but you have to go actually win the games. And without two all stars playing on the other team it’s a much easier job no matter who the teams in question are.

[SouBeachTalents]

That... kind of is how basketball works. If your best players are going off and you still lose... it's fair to assume the opposing team has a greater chance at winning. Kevin Love, Kyrie, and Lebron were also all good to go in the regular season and only won 53 games to the Dub's 67. There were articles hampering on Love's role literally a month deep into the regular season commenting on how he went from rugged rebounding champ and post player to ***** skinny spot up shooter. So I can't agree with that last statement.
Harden & CP3 combined for 64 points in Game 1 in 2018 and lost by double digits at home. They went on to win 3 of the next 4 games. You can't seriously determine how a series plays out based off one game, esp when significant injuries affect the rest of the series

[ralph_i_el]

Why would you base this on the quality of the 2nd best player? These finals series often hinge on the performance of role players.

[AussieSteve]

Warriors were not anymore depleted then 2016 Warriors and people worship Lebron for that run despite being just +7. Kawhi in 2019 was able to triple Lebron's 2016! 7 to 21.

Kawhi's performance in 2019 was great, and what we would expect of an All-NBA level player.

LeBron's performance in 2016 was otherworldly.

To not acknowledge the difference is to be voluntarily idiotic

[tpols]

Harden & CP3 combined for 64 points in Game 1 in 2018 and lost by double digits at home. They went on to win 3 of the next 4 games. You can't seriously determine how a series plays out based off one game, esp when significant injuries affect the rest of the series

Iggy got hurt in the middle of that series and missed games. That's why that happened.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Why would you base this on the quality of the 2nd best player? These finals series often hinge on the performance of role players.

This is based on the entire playoff run and not just finals, excuse me for not making myself clear. I wasn't surprised that Kawhi beats Duncan. Its clear that 2017-present kawhi is a better player then Duncan ever was. Spurs fans just can't admit it.

Duncan even witnessed kawhi destroy him on the bench last season and made Duncan quit as an assistant coach. Even Duncan himself knows that Kawhi is better then him. This list further proves that.

Mavs were also the #1 SRS in 2003 and Dirk got injured half way through the series vs Duncan. Also Lakers didn't have Karl Malone yet so he can shut Duncan down like he did in 04.

Duncan got lucky too that year and Manu per minute was already all-star level impact. Manu's on/off numbers even by 2003 were jaw dropping.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Iggy got hurt in the middle of that series and missed games. That's why that happened.

You still lost control of that series. Raptors in 2019 were always in control of warriors and ahead in the series, remember they were a Kyle Lowry game 5 wide open brick away from winning series 4-1. Durant saved curry/klay/draymond in game 5 from losing the series in Toronto.

[ShawkFactory]

That... kind of is how basketball works. If your best players are going off and you still lose... it's fair to assume the opposing team has a greater chance at winning. Kevin Love, Kyrie, and Lebron were also all good to go in the regular season and only won 53 games to the Dub's 67. There were articles hampering on Love's role literally a month deep into the regular season commenting on how he went from rugged rebounding champ and post player to ***** skinny spot up shooter. So I can't agree with that last statement.

They lost in OT on the road...

We saw what happened in 2012. Or 2013.

It’s not fair to say that the Warriors would have won if the Cavs were healthy. It’s not necessarily fair to say the Cavs for sure would have won either though.

[Hey Yo]

The games Cavs won with Draymond in the line-up...... 3,6,7 and in that game 7, Draymond put up 32-15-9