Lebron shoots less than 40% outside of 3ft for his career

[StrongLurk]

He's also a below average free throw shooter for his career...and yet he still scores 27ppg (54.1 EFG%/58.6TS%) over 1,272 regular season games.

It's pretty mind-boggling when you put all the percentages together, and Lebron might even end up the all-time regular reason scorer (already playoff leader). This basically confirms that he is the GOAT-scorer at the rim (even ahead of Shaq).

As amazing as Lebron is (I have him 2nd best all time), I do understand why people still feel disappointed by Lebron and would prefer a player like Kobe. Individual scoring is the most important attribute in basketball for individual players, and Lebron is a dominant scorer. But unlike guys like Kobe, Durant, Kyrie, Curry, Kawhi, etc. Lebron never developed an elite, or even GOOD scoring skillset. His biggest scoring strengths come from his freakish size/athleticism (at rim scoring) and he manages to sprinkle in a few jump shots.

Generally NBA fans/players respect skill-based success over athletic success. We know guys like Kobe, Curry, Kyrie, etc. absolutely are maximizing their scoring skills (10/10), yet Lebron's scoring SKILLS are more like a 6.5/10).

Bron shoots 41.7% for his career between 3ft-10ft away from the rim, 36.6% 10ft-16ft, 38.6% 16ft-3-point line, 34.4% from three, and 73.5% from the free throw line. All of those percentages are below league average.

[Gus Hemmingway]

OP, is there anyone is history that was both a more efficient 2 point scorer than Bron, AND a more efficient 3 point scorer?

Bron’s combo of scoring efficiency from 2 pt and 3 pt range is GOAT level

[The Birdman]

Wonder how many more points he would have it he was at least at the average for those shots

[Gudo]

He has good longevity and has been quite lucky to stay away from major injuries. And I hope it stays that way until the time he decides to hang them up. I do feel the current game and how it is free flowing, is a lot more suitable for players at the latter parts of their careers.

[Vino24]

LeBron wins again

[LAmbruh]

LeBron wins again

He wins again

We win again

:cheers:

[3ball]

OP, is there anyone is history that was both a more efficient 2 point scorer than Bron, AND a more efficient 3 point scorer?

Bron’s combo of scoring efficiency from 2 pt and 3 pt range is GOAT level

Jordan is the only goat level athlete that was an elite shooter from somewhere on the floor (mid-range, FT, or three), whereas guys like dr. j and lebron just had the right-hand drive to rely on and didn't have elite percentages or jumpshooting skill from anywhere

[Gus Hemmingway]

Jordan is the only goat level athlete that was an elite shooter from somewhere on the floor (mid-range, FT, or three), whereas guys like dr. j and lebron just had the right-hand drive to rely on and didn't have elite percentages or jumpshooting skill from anywhere

Wrong, MJ only shot 28% from 3, so that negates all his other skills

He is literally the worst 3 point shooter in NBA History for a guard

[3ball]

Wrong, MJ only shot 28% from 3, so that negates all his other skills

He is literally the worst 3 point shooter in NBA History for a guard


Goat level athletes are never elite shooters from anywhere, except Jordan who was an elite mid-range shooter and the goat 2-point jumpshooter and shotmaker

[Gudo]

It is Lebron’s within 3ft shots that provide that volume. He has a ton of those which indicates he gets close to the basket far more often.

[StrongLurk]

It is Lebron’s within 3ft shots that provide that volume. He has a ton of those which indicates he gets close to the basket far more often.

Yes, he's the GOAT at-the-rim scorer. It just doesn't make sense how he never developed a consistent perimeter shooting game. He had good shooting regular seasons in 2013 and 2014 on the Heat, but then every other year was basically below average. Also, he clearly has some sort of mental block at the free throw line.

Look at Kawhi's development, he went from role player to absolutely elite 3-level scorer...how the hell did Lebron not do that with all the basketball he's played?

[scuzzy]

quality meltdown


10/10

[StrongLurk]

quality meltdown


10/10

:cheers:

[light]

Literally doesn't matter because he shoots like Shaq on the inside and like Larry Bird from three.

Scratch that, he's a much more prolific three point shooter than Bird was, shooting from distances Bird would never think to attempt. Bird has a few percentage points on him but LeBron has made 1200 more threes than Bird.

Force LeBron to midrange and he'll nail that too.

The dude has zero weaknesses.

[Baller789]

Literally doesn't matter because he shoots like Shaq on the inside and like Larry Bird from three.

Scratch that, he's a much more prolific three point shooter than Bird was, shooting from distances Bird would never think to attempt. Bird has a few percentage points on him but LeBron has made 1200 more threes than Bird.

Force LeBron to midrange and he'll nail that too.

The dude has zero weaknesses.

Except for freethrows and off ball movement.

:lebronamazed:

[dankok8]

Lebron shoots 37.4% from the field outside of 3 feet for his career.

Like someone said, the current style of the game suits him perfectly though. Higher pace means more opportunities in transition where he's absolutely deadly and the softer game helps him draw more fouls while also receiving less punishment from defenders which should help extend his career perhaps even well into his 40's.

Not hating on the guy. He's obviously great but he's not one of the best scorers ever. Not even close. If total points were the criteria then Karl Malone would be the #2 best scorer ever. If anyone ever said that they'd be laughed out of the room.

[Gus Hemmingway]

Lebron shoots 37.4% from the field outside of 3 feet for his career.

Like someone said, the current style of the game suits him perfectly though. Higher pace means more opportunities in transition where he's absolutely deadly and the softer game helps him draw more fouls while also receiving less punishment from defenders which should help extend his career perhaps even well into his 40's.

Not hating on the guy. He's obviously great but he's not one of the best scorers ever. Not even close. If total points were the criteria then Karl Malone would be the #2 best scorer ever. If anyone ever said that they'd be laughed out of the room.

Total playoff points is the key measure, and LeBron is #1 while MJ is #2

[AussieSteve]

LeBron entered the league as a below average shooter, sure.

And his shooting also dropped off a little last season, but over his previous 10 seasons (2010-19), he shot the following percentages.

0-3ft: 75.7%
3-10ft: 43.2%
10-16ft: 41.0%
16ft-3pt: 40.0%
3pt: 35.3%

While, outside of 3ft, these are admittedly not elite percentages, they are very good. For reference let's compare James Harden's last 10 seasons (2011-20)

0-3ft: 64.7%
3-10ft: 36.8%
10-16ft: 42.5%
16ft-3pt: 37.9%
3pt: 36.3%

LeBron is a better shooter from most distances than Harden by these numbers.

LeBron's numbers outside of his early years compare pretty favorably at most distances with the vast majority of volume scorers. It's only the elite few (like Durant and Dirk) that make some of LeBron's numbers look inferior at some distances.

To say he's not one of the greatest scorers all time is just ridiculous. For over a decade he's averaged 27ppg in the RS and 29ppg in the PO, with ATG at rim scoring, and mid-long range percentages that compare favorably with most ATG scorers.

[Vino24]

LeBron is not a shooter. But he’s going to finish with the most points in regular season and playoffs and that pisses a lot of people off jeje

[StrongLurk]

LeBron entered the league as a below average shooter, sure.

And his shooting also dropped off a little last season, but over his previous 10 seasons (2010-19), he shot the following percentages.

0-3ft: 75.7%
3-10ft: 43.2%
10-16ft: 41.0%
16ft-3pt: 40.0%
3pt: 35.3%

While, outside of 3ft, these are admittedly not elite percentages, they are very good. For reference let's compare James Harden's last 10 seasons (2011-20)

0-3ft: 64.7%
3-10ft: 36.8%
10-16ft: 42.5%
16ft-3pt: 37.9%
3pt: 36.3%

LeBron is a better shooter from most distances than Harden by these numbers.

LeBron's numbers outside of his early years compare pretty favorably at most distances with the vast majority of volume scorers. It's only the elite few (like Durant and Dirk) that make some of LeBron's numbers look inferior at some distances.

To say he's not one of the greatest scorers all time is just ridiculous. For over a decade he's averaged 27ppg in the RS and 29ppg in the PO, with ATG at rim scoring, and mid-long range percentages that compare favorably with most ATG scorers.

Great post.

[RRR3]

LeBron entered the league as a below average shooter, sure.

And his shooting also dropped off a little last season, but over his previous 10 seasons (2010-19), he shot the following percentages.

0-3ft: 75.7%
3-10ft: 43.2%
10-16ft: 41.0%
16ft-3pt: 40.0%
3pt: 35.3%

While, outside of 3ft, these are admittedly not elite percentages, they are very good. For reference let's compare James Harden's last 10 seasons (2011-20)

0-3ft: 64.7%
3-10ft: 36.8%
10-16ft: 42.5%
16ft-3pt: 37.9%
3pt: 36.3%

LeBron is a better shooter from most distances than Harden by these numbers.

LeBron's numbers outside of his early years compare pretty favorably at most distances with the vast majority of volume scorers. It's only the elite few (like Durant and Dirk) that make some of LeBron's numbers look inferior at some distances.

To say he's not one of the greatest scorers all time is just ridiculous. For over a decade he's averaged 27ppg in the RS and 29ppg in the PO, with ATG at rim scoring, and mid-long range percentages that compare favorably with most ATG scorers.
:biggums:

[dankok8]

LeBron entered the league as a below average shooter, sure.

And his shooting also dropped off a little last season, but over his previous 10 seasons (2010-19), he shot the following percentages.

0-3ft: 75.7%
3-10ft: 43.2%
10-16ft: 41.0%
16ft-3pt: 40.0%
3pt: 35.3%

While, outside of 3ft, these are admittedly not elite percentages, they are very good. For reference let's compare James Harden's last 10 seasons (2011-20)

0-3ft: 64.7%
3-10ft: 36.8%
10-16ft: 42.5%
16ft-3pt: 37.9%
3pt: 36.3%

LeBron is a better shooter from most distances than Harden by these numbers.

LeBron's numbers outside of his early years compare pretty favorably at most distances with the vast majority of volume scorers. It's only the elite few (like Durant and Dirk) that make some of LeBron's numbers look inferior at some distances.

To say he's not one of the greatest scorers all time is just ridiculous. For over a decade he's averaged 27ppg in the RS and 29ppg in the PO, with ATG at rim scoring, and mid-long range percentages that compare favorably with most ATG scorers.

Good post. I agree with most of it. Mind you the volumes of shots taken matter as well. I would bet Harden takes very very few midrange shots. Anyways...

Again depends how you define "one of the greatest". He's definitely not top 5 but you can make a solid argument for top 10 or top 15.

Lebron's career averages are super high due to his longevity... He hasn't played outside of his prime except his rookie year. Take the top 10 years of many legends and they'll have comparable or better numbers than Lebron. Remember that scoring 27 ppg consistently is nice to say the least but great scorers can score 30+ and 40+ with ease. Lebron is not a great iso scorer so he has trouble scaling up and still maintaining efficiency especially against good defenses. Not all the time but generally speaking. Someone like Kobe who has lower efficiency than Lebron is a much more dangerous scorer because he's a threat for 40 every night. Lebron simply isn't. Lebron is GOAT level at rim finishing and transition in particular and he's good at finding those shots which keeps his efficiency high but he can't necessarily scale up his scoring at his efficiency because there is simply a very finite number of opportunities in a game to run out on the break. Especially against good defenses and especially earlier in his career when the game was played at a slower pace and it was more physical in general.

[RRR3]

LeBron scores more in the playoffs on better efficiency and has had way more 40+ games but sure Kobe was better because MIDRANG FEETWORK POSS MOVES.


Dumbkok8 at it again :roll:

[Shooter]

Literally doesn't matter because he shoots like Shaq on the inside and like Larry Bird from three.

Scratch that, he's a much more prolific three point shooter than Bird was, shooting from distances Bird would never think to attempt. Bird has a few percentage points on him but LeBron has made 1200 more threes than Bird.

Force LeBron to midrange and he'll nail that too.

The dude has zero weaknesses.

And this is why LeBron James is the Greatest Of All Time

GOAT

[tontoz]

Nice post by AussieSteve. I would add that the most efficient shots in the game are layups and dunks. Defenses are designed first and foremost to prevent players from getting to the rim.

When a player can get a high volume of shots at the rim and finish at a high rate it puts tremendous pressure on the defense. Think Shaq. In his early years MJ's main focus was getting to the rim. He attacked the basket relentlessly.

Lebron came into the league as a below average shooter and improved to be roughly average. But his ability to get to the rim and finish is actually the most valuable offensive skill in the game. Not only are shots at the rim the most efficient shots but they are also the most likely shots to draw fouls. Drives to the rim also suck in the defense and frequently lead to open 3s.

So let's not dismiss the most important skill in the game.

[SouBeachTalents]

He's obviously great but he's not one of the best scorers ever. Not even close
Retarded

[tpols]

You can't be a great basketball player if you can't shoot a basketball.

Lebron would've been a dominant football player.

[Mr. Woke]

Yet he is still the GOAT.

LBJ haters in shambles.

[SouBeachTalents]

You can't be a great basketball player if you can't shoot a basketball.

Lebron would've been a dominant football player.
He's been ok at basketball too

[tpols]

He's been ok at basketball too

Just a little bit. :)

[coin24]

Career loser

[Gudo]

Nice post by AussieSteve. I would add that the most efficient shots in the game are layups and dunks. Defenses are designed first and foremost to prevent players from getting to the rim.

When a player can get a high volume of shots at the rim and finish at a high rate it puts tremendous pressure on the defense. Think Shaq. In his early years MJ's main focus was getting to the rim. He attacked the basket relentlessly.

Lebron came into the league as a below average shooter and improved to be roughly average. But his ability to get to the rim and finish is actually the most valuable offensive skill in the game. Not only are shots at the rim the most efficient shots but they are also the most likely shots to draw fouls. Drives to the rim also suck in the defense and frequently lead to open 3s.

So let's not dismiss the most important skill in the game.

I see lebron as just an ok shooter but an overall great player. He would be great in any era. I just think that this longevity is being aided by how open and less congested the game is. Think orlando shaq on the offense on the inside. Fast and strong and you can’t put a body on him. Lebron is big and fast, the game is too open, and you can’t even put a body on him without a foul being called. Of course lebron would go the below 3ft volume route. That makes sense. And maybe that is why he didn’t feel compelled to really be a great shooter from beyond.

[dankok8]

LeBron scores more in the playoffs on better efficiency and has had way more 40+ games but sure Kobe was better because MIDRANG FEETWORK POSS MOVES.


Dumbkok8 at it again :roll:

There's a lot more to the story though... Lebron played a lot more playoff games, Lebron played all playoff games in his prime whereas Kobe played a lot of his when he wasn't in his prime and Lebron put up a lot of his 40+ games in the last 5 or so years which is a very statistically inflated era.

[dankok8]

Retarded

Well he's not close to MJ and Kareem in scoring no matter how you look at it. Guys like KD, Kobe, Shaq and Wilt are all better as well.

[tpols]

Durant is the most effortless scorer I've ever seen. Basketball perfection.

[SouBeachTalents]

Well he's not close to MJ and Kareem in scoring no matter how you look at it. Guys like KD, Kobe, Shaq and Wilt are all better as well.
Not close to Kareem?

Playoff prime
1970-80 Kareem: 30.4 ppg
2009-18 LeBron: 29.2 ppg

Playoff runs of 30 ppg
Kareem: 4
LeBron: 5

Playoff ppg career high
Kareem: 35.2
LeBron: 35.3

40 point playoff games
Kareem: 9
LeBron: 28

Not even close though :oldlol:

And just to show you how ridiculous your takes are

40 point playoff games

Kobe: 13
Shaq: 12
Durant: 11
LeBron before 30: 12

[Airupthere]

Can't find the video on youtube anymore but someone made a compilation of lebron's failed footwork on the post. The kind of mistakes you wouldn't expect from a top NBA player. This guy had to be tutored by Olajuwon. Imagine that, the GOAT midway in his career being tutored the proper footwork on the post. Not surprised that he travels so much. So let's not even get to the his outside shooting please.

[PP34Deuce]

Legacy involves your skill talent trajectory and a little luck

He inherited great size and athletic ratio. Danny Ainge said in an interview there's no such thing as small ball with Lebron. Dude is a legit 6'8 with 260 pounds on him. Unless you are Embiid, Joker, Aldridge, Bron can be your 4 as much as your 3.

A bad shooter is Ben Simmons... Lebron is not a bad shooter, he's a streaky shooter. you don't have average 24-25PPG by your 2nd year being a bad shooter.

[StrongLurk]

Really enjoying this thread, a lot of great posts.

Watching Lebron haters suffer is always hilarious.

[RRR3]

You can't be a great basketball player if you can't shoot a basketball.

Lebron would've been a dominant football player.
Shaq wasn’t a great baskettall player by this retarded logic.

[dankok8]

Not close to Kareem?

Playoff prime
1970-80 Kareem: 30.4 ppg
2009-18 LeBron: 29.2 ppg

Playoff runs of 30 ppg
Kareem: 4
LeBron: 5

Playoff ppg career high
Kareem: 35.2
LeBron: 35.3

40 point playoff games
Kareem: 9
LeBron: 28

Not even close though :oldlol:

And just to show you how ridiculous your takes are

40 point playoff games

Kobe: 13
Shaq: 12
Durant: 11
LeBron before 30: 12

Regular season scoring matters as well...

Regular Season:

1970-1981 Kareem: 28.1 ppg on 58.9 %TS (+7.7%)
2009-2020 Lebron: 26.9 ppg on 60.5 %TS (+6.0%)

Playoffs:

1970-1981 Kareem: 30.3 ppg on 56.8 %TS (+5.6%)
2009-2020 Lebron: 29.1 ppg on 59.6 %TS (+5.1%)

That seems pretty even with Kareem having slightly better volume and Lebron slightly better efficiency.

However league average TS% from 1970-1981 was 51.2% and league average TS% from 2009-2020 was 54.5%.

In addition to playing in more defensive leagues Kareem in that span played 97 playoff games and Lebron played 214 games. Of course the latter would have more 40+ games and also more total points by a lot. But when people say who's the best scorer ever they're not talking about total points. They are talking about who was better at putting the ball in the basket in their primes. And the answer to that question is Kareem.

[tpols]

Shaq wasn’t a great baskettall player by this retarded logic.

Shaq didn't abide by the rules either.

And had to team hop to win big time.