Jokic could average a trip-dub this season if he wanted too

[StrongLurk]

Dude is a flat out superstar and is like the Larry Bird of centers. Extremely versatile, skilled and smart and the third best big man in the NBA behind AD and Giannis.

[PANTHALASSA]

Dude is a flat out superstar and is like the Larry Bird of centers. Extremely versatile, skilled and smart and the third best big man in the NBA behind AD and Giannis.


Giannis is a big man?

He doesn't seem all that big... where it counts :confusedshrug:



[text color = white] in the playoffs [/text color]

[Nike D'Antoni]

He is all about winning,.

[LoneyROY7]

Joker is one hell of a passer. Throw him the rock at the FT line and watch him get you a lay-up or open 3.

[tanibanana]

He is so unique... what type of center puts up 18 assists. :applause:

[GOBB]

Embiid is better but I do wish he had 1/2 of jokic passing ability.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Embiid is better but I do wish he had 1/2 of jokic passing ability.

Is he better though?

[GOBB]

Is he better though?

Yes. Jokic is a better passer no even up for debate. Everything else? Not so much. But if someone thinks otherwise that is fine. Debatable but I have Embiid being better for his scoring prowess and ability to defend.

[NuggetsFan]

Yes. Jokic is a better passer no even up for debate. Everything else? Not so much. But if someone thinks otherwise that is fine. Debatable but I have Embiid being better for his scoring prowess and ability to defend.

Jokic is a better shooter, passer, just as good inside. More clutch. Probably the most underrated aspect in his game. He has quite a few game winners for a C. A better playoff performer. Embiid is better defensively. Jokic is just more versatile. He can play PG, bang inside, space the floor, score from the mid range. Much higher basketball IQ. People ripped on his weight but he’s always had much better stamina than Embiid who can get gassed and become inefficient.

I think it was once a toss up but I think Jokic is pretty clearly the best C after the past two playoffs assuming Davis is considered a PF.

[ZMonkey11]

Where is the smart guy from years ago that argued Westbrook couldn't average a triple-double because he didn't get a triple-double every game. Care to argue this again with Jokic?

[madmax]

A Russell Westbrook of the centers imo

[NugzFan]

I love embiid fans

[GOBB]

Jokic is a better shooter, passer, just as good inside. More clutch. Probably the most underrated aspect in his game. He has quite a few game winners for a C. A better playoff performer. Embiid is better defensively. Jokic is just more versatile. He can play PG, bang inside, space the floor, score from the mid range. Much higher basketball IQ. People ripped on his weight but he’s always had much better stamina than Embiid who can get gassed and become inefficient.

I think it was once a toss up but I think Jokic is pretty clearly the best C after the past two playoffs assuming Davis is considered a PF.

Embiid a better scorer. Jokic can be a better shooter. He’s not giving the offensive output of an Embiid.

[Gray GOAT]

I love embiid fans

One would think last years playoffs would be the final nail in the coffin for most, but some just enjoy going down with the burning ship.

[NugzFan]

Embiid a better scorer. Jokic can be a better shooter. He’s not giving the offensive output of an Embiid.


He’s a better scorer, sure

But not a better player

[fsvr54]

Jokic is the best center in the league

[tpols]

A Russell Westbrook of the centers imo

This may be the worst post of the year.

[GrayGoat]

Maybe if Jokic was facing Kawhi every game

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

I'd take Embiid and Vucevic over him,only thing that stands out about Jokic is his passing ability,other than that he isn't better than Vooch and especially a healthy Embiid.Vooch has an outside shot as well but is a better rebounder and post player.A healthy Joel is in fact the best center in the league he's an elite scorer and a threat on the defensive end.

[GOBB]

He’s a better scorer, sure

But not a better player

He’s a better scorer and defender. So yes he is the better player. Thanks

[GOBB]

I'd take Embiid and Vucevic over him,only thing that stands out about Jokic is his passing ability,other than that he isn't better than Vooch and especially a healthy Embiid.Vooch has an outside shot as well but is a better rebounder and post player.A healthy Joel is in fact the best center in the league he's an elite scorer and a threat on the defensive end.

Truth

[NugzFan]

I'd take Embiid and Vucevic over him,only thing that stands out about Jokic is his passing ability,other than that he isn't better than Vooch and especially a healthy Embiid.Vooch has an outside shot as well but is a better rebounder and post player.A healthy Joel is in fact the best center in the league he's an elite scorer and a threat on the defensive end.

The fact that you would take vucevic over jokic actually helps in the jokic v embiid debate. :oldlol:

You, the Orlando GM and everyone else would trade vucevic for jokic in a second.

[NugzFan]

He’s a better scorer and defender. So yes he is the better player. Thanks


Like I said. I love embiid fans.

So adorable.

[Kblaze8855]

He’s a better scorer, sure

But not a better player

I feel like when you concede that a player is a better scorer and defender)rebounder too really) you have to acknowledge there’s at least an argument to be made who the better player is. Kinda like a Payton vs Stockton situation(Payton be Nash may be better). Not exactly those matchups but each side has strengths.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

The fact that you would take vucevic over jokic actually helps in the jokic v embiid debate. :oldlol:

You, the Orlando GM and everyone else would trade vucevic for jokic in a second.

Like I said earlier the only thing that separates him from the other 2 is his passing but he isn't better than Embiid it isn't even worth debating about.The real debate is between Jokic and Vucevic.I'd take Vucevic because he can score and shoot just like Jokic,he's better on the boards,he has more moves in the post and I'd give him the edge defensively,I never been impressed by Jokic's defense.Plus he has the advantage of playing on a better team.

[StrongLurk]

Jokic in the playoffs is a whole tier higher than Embiid. Jokic > Embiid.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Yeah and Jokic is probably a better player then Dirk ever was because the massive playmaking gap and Dirk doesn't make it up on defense.

Jamal Murray > Jason Terry

The 2020 nuggets were better then the 2011 Mavs.

On top of that, Paul George developed a mental illness in the bubble. Harrell was out of shape. Its making sense why nuggets pulled out the series in the end.

[NugzFan]

I feel like when you concede that a player is a better scorer and defender)rebounder too really) you have to acknowledge there’s at least an argument to be made who the better player is. Kinda like a Payton vs Stockton situation(Payton be Nash may be better). Not exactly those matchups but each side has strengths.

So both sides must acknowledge that the other player may be better?

[NugzFan]

Like I said earlier the only thing that separates him from the other 2 is his passing but he isn't better than Embiid it isn't even worth debating about.The real debate is between Jokic and Vucevic.I'd take Vucevic because he can score and shoot just like Jokic,he's better on the boards,he has more moves in the post and I'd give him the edge defensively,I never been impressed by Jokic's defense.Plus he has the advantage of playing on a better team.

You could have just said “I’m a huge homer” and saved a lot of time.

Vucevic isn’t in this conversation. Not even close.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

You could have just said “I’m a huge homer” and saved a lot of time.

Vucevic isn’t in this conversation. Not even close.

Right back at the Nuggets homer that thinks Jokic is the best center.I'm convinced you don't watch any Magic games because everything I told you is all facts.On what planet is a borderline tier 2 level player the best center?On what planet is a player that is absolute shit on defense the best center?A prime Dwight would be the best center today.

[NugzFan]

Right back at the Nuggets homer that thinks Jokic is the best center.I'm convinced you don't watch any Magic games because everything I told you is all facts.On what planet is a borderline tier 2 level player the best center?On what planet is a player that is absolute shit on defense the best center?A prime Dwight would be the best center today.

No, you’re right. Vucevic is better than jokic

Yup. This is true.

What a funny hill to die on. :oldlol:

[Kblaze8855]

So both sides must acknowledge that the other player may be better?

”Must” is a bit much because with the obvious bias of both sides it’s probably a lost cause. I’d say an unbiased observer would have to say it’s a reasonable discussion to have once you concede scoring and defense is on one side. There may be examples otherwise....maybe think of some good two way player vs someone like Magic Johnson? Maybe something like that...but I can’t think of a specific matchup to compare.

Thats just a rough starting point to then conclude there is no comparison overall. Scoring and defense are...a lot. Not everything...but a lot.

[NugzFan]

”Must” is a bit much because with the obvious bias of both sides it’s probably a lost cause. I’d say an unbiased observer would have to say it’s a reasonable discussion to have once you concede scoring and defense is on one side. There may be examples otherwise....maybe think of some good two way player vs someone like Magic Johnson? Maybe something like that...but I can’t think of a specific matchup to compare.

Thats just a rough starting point to then conclude there is no comparison overall. Scoring and defense are...a lot. Not everything...but a lot.

It’s all moot at this point.

Vucevic is the best center now.

Let the vucevic v embiid debate begin.

[tpols]

I feel like when you concede that a player is a better scorer and defender)rebounder too really) you have to acknowledge there’s at least an argument to be made who the better player is. Kinda like a Payton vs Stockton situation(Payton be Nash may be better). Not exactly those matchups but each side has strengths.

Embiid isn't a better scorer though. For their playoff careers, Jokic averages 25 ppg on 122 ORTG. FG%... 3PT%... FT%... TS... whatever you want to use. Jokic sweeps Embiid who only averages 22 ppg on 106 ORTG in the playoffs. They both average 11 boards a game in the playoffs and Jokic has twice the playmaking ability. So when you add it all up, he's winning in 2 categories by a lot, tied in 1, and losing only in 1.

[GOBB]

Like I said. I love embiid fans.

So adorable.

One nuggets fan acknowledged Embiid is better defensively. You didn’t quote and disagree so I’ll assume you agree that to be true. You admit he is a better scorer. So if a player is a better scorer and defender (assuming u believe that). What makes you so uneasy to hear someone say Embiid is a better player? Jokic shooting/passing trumps scoring and defense? Interesting, adorable really. But hey let me here you’re rebuttal here. Scoring and defending hold a lot of weight. Just not if you’re a Nuggets fan I guess.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Embiid isn't a better scorer though. For their playoff careers, Jokic averages 25 ppg on 122 ORTG. FG%... 3PT%... FT%... TS... whatever you want to use. Jokic sweeps Embiid who only averages 22 ppg on 106 ORTG in the playoffs. They both average 11 boards a game in the playoffs and Jokic has twice the playmaking ability. So when you add it all up, he's winning in 2 categories by a lot, tied in 1, and losing only in 1.

Jokic's stats doesn't match his level of play on the court,Embiid has a higher ceiling as an offensive player. Dwight was giving Jokic problems defensively.

[GOBB]

It’s all moot at this point.

Vucevic is the best center now.

Let the vucevic v embiid debate begin.

So you put your foot in your mouth by admitting he’s a better scorer. You can go ahead and say you made a mistake and Embiid is not. Lol I won’t hold it against you, promise.

[tpols]

Jokic's stats doesn't match his level of play on the court,Embiid has a higher ceiling as an offensive player. Dwight was giving Jokic problems defensively.

They really do though. Jokic had more MVP votes than Embiid in both 2019 and 2020.

He made it all the way to the WCFs... an over achievement based on the projections.

[Kblaze8855]

I have no interest in arguments that need to be googled. I don’t care which of them you want because I’m a fan of both. Jokic is one of my favorite bigs ever in fact. I just don’t care any more about arguments of that nature. Especially when wrapped into that “in the playoffs” nonsense when they have had no common opponents. I’m just talking basketball.

[NugzFan]

One nuggets fan acknowledged Embiid is better defensively. You didn’t quote and disagree so I’ll assume you agree that to be true. You admit he is a better scorer. So if a player is a better scorer and defender (assuming u believe that). What makes you so uneasy to hear someone say Embiid is a better player? Jokic shooting/passing trumps scoring and defense? Interesting, adorable really. But hey let me here you’re rebuttal here. Scoring and defending hold a lot of weight. Just not if you’re a Nuggets fan I guess.

It doesn’t. I don’t actually care. This is fun for me. We’ve gone over this a million times. Embiid fans care more than jokic fans.

I just want the team to win. Personal awards mean little to me.

If we want to agree embiid is better , it’s all yours.

The vucevic thing though? Man that’s just funny.

[ArbitraryWater]

The word you are looking for is called "to"

[NugzFan]

So you put your foot in your mouth by admitting he’s a better scorer. You can go ahead and say you made a mistake and Embiid is not. Lol I won’t hold it against you, promise.

Yeah that’s fine. Trophy is in the Mail.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

They really do though. Jokic had more MVP votes than Embiid in both 2019 and 2020.

He made it all the way to the WCFs... an over achievement based on the projections.
Well shit all of this would be possible for Vucevic if he got to play on a more talented team.Getting a free ride to the WCF and fraud MVP votes somehow makes him a better player than Embiid and Vooch.

[NugzFan]

Well shit all of this would be possible for Vucevic if he got to play on a more talented team.Getting a free ride to the WCF and fraud MVP votes somehow makes him a better player than Embiid and Vooch.

Yes. This is why vucevic isn’t better than embiid and jokic.

Free rides to the WCF? You are really struggling to keep this argument alive.

[GOBB]

It doesn’t. I don’t actually care. This is fun for me. We’ve gone over this a million times. Embiid fans care more than jokic fans.

I just want the team to win. Personal awards mean little to me.

If we want to agree embiid is better , it’s all yours.

The vucevic thing though? Man that’s just funny.

I never looked to argue. My earlier post I said it was debatable. Something I don’t think Jokic fans have ever done. But it matters none to me at this point either. Just wish Embiid had the 1/2 passing ability of Jokic.

[tpols]

Well shit all of this would be possible for Vucevic if he got to play on a more talented team.Getting a free ride to the WCF and fraud MVP votes somehow makes him a better player than Embiid and Vooch.

:roll:

I like vucevic, and remember in fantasy he used to be dope, but he's much softer than Jokic and not at all on his level. He's a first round east fodder leader... Jokic is like Dirk or Bird. There's levels to this shit.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Yes. This is why vucevic isn’t better than embiid and jokic.

Free rides to the WCF? You are really struggling to keep this argument alive.

Embiid is clearly better than both Vucevic and Jokic but you haven't explained to me how Jokic is the superior player.All he can do better is pass the ball plus having the advantage of having better teammates hence why he got a free ride to the WCF.There's no damn way he'd have any votes for MVP if he played on an average team.So the way I see it is.....,

Embiid >>> Vucevic => Jokic

[NugzFan]

I never looked to argue. My earlier post I said it was debatable. Something I don’t think Jokic fans have ever done. But it matters none to me at this point either. Just wish Embiid had the 1/2 passing ability of Jokic.

Ok so neither of us care. Let’s just combine the strengths of the two to make the ultimate center to defeat vucevic


Nikoel jokbiid!

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

:roll:

I like vucevic, and remember in fantasy he used to be dope, but he's much softer than Jokic and not at all on his level. He's a first round east fodder leader... Jokic is like Dirk or Bird.There's levels to this shit.
You lost all credibility when you said this

edit: Jokic is soft as tissue paper.What makes him tougher than KAT?And again he's playing on a better team that doesn't mean he's the superior player.

[ArbitraryWater]

Arguing with a guy that thinks Vucevic is better than Jokic lol...

Lets just leave that man alone.


He will run into disagreements everywhere he goes

[NugzFan]

Embiid is clearly better than both Vucevic and Jokic but you haven't explained to me how Jokic is the superior player.All he can do better is pass the ball plus having the advantage of having better teammates hence why he got a free ride to the WCF.There's no damn way he'd have any votes for MVP if he played on an average team.So the way I see it is.....,

Embiid >>> Vucevic => Jokic


Because I don’t need to waste my time explaining to a magic fan why jokic is better than vucevic. You are just entertaining me att this point.

Obviously I’m not going to change your mind with facts so I’d rather have fun

Btw; have you considered that jokic gets some
Mvp votes because he’s a big reason the team wins? It’s not like he joined a 50 win team in free agency

[NugzFan]

Arguing with a guy that thinks Vucevic is better than Jokic lol...

Lets just leave that man alone.


He will run into disagreements everywhere he goes

I almost want to ask a magic forum if they’d trade vucevic for jokic.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

I almost want to ask a magic forum if they’d trade vucevic for jokic.

Do it and I'll see their reasons for doing so.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Lmao at the retards arguing embiid > jokic

Embiid averages 22ppg on 43% in the playoffs... and the eye test tells an even worse story for him. Hes ****ing atrocious. Just terrible


Meanwhile jokic averages like 25/12/8 on great efficiency


Its literally not even close when you factor the eye test with the huge statistical advantage for Joke.

Good lord

[tpols]

Lmao at the retards arguing embiid > jokic

Embiid averages 22ppg on 43% in the playoffs... and the eye test tells an even worse story for him. Hes ****ing atrocious. Just terrible


Meanwhile jokic averages like 25/12/8 on great efficiency


Its literally not even close when you factor the eye test with the huge statistical advantage for Joke.

Good lord

This is what I'm saying.

But we have people in here arguing vucevic is better so I don't even know what to expect anymore.

Embiid hits the ground more than ANY 7 footer I've ever seen. And he's a blackhole, inefficient big man. He's very overrated...

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

All I keep seeing here are a bunch of stat nerds that are basing their arguments off purely stats instead of what they bring to the table on the court.This is a similar problem with LeBron,Westbrook and Harden.THEIR STATS DON'T MATCH HOW THEY PLAY ON THE COURT!! :facepalm:facepalm:facepalm

[NugzFan]

Do it and I'll see their reasons for doing so.

Which forum?

The question is how do I even pose the question without sounding like a troll?

[NugzFan]

Lmao at the retards arguing embiid > jokic

Embiid averages 22ppg on 43% in the playoffs... and the eye test tells an even worse story for him. Hes ****ing atrocious. Just terrible


Meanwhile jokic averages like 25/12/8 on great efficiency


Its literally not even close when you factor the eye test with the huge statistical advantage for Joke.

Good lord

:cheers:

[PhutureDynasty]

Love me some Embiid and it's certainly debatable between him and Jokic for reasons already mentioned.

Jokic has made it count more in the playoffs though, which is an edge to him.

Is that enough to say he's definitely better? No, but it helps his case.

As much as it pains me to say, I'd give Jokic the edge by a hair for now.

[NugzFan]

This is what I'm saying.

But we have people in here arguing vucevic is better so I don't even know what to expect anymore.

Embiid hits the ground more than ANY 7 footer I've ever seen. And he's a blackhole, inefficient big man. He's very overrated...

:cheers:

[NugzFan]

All I keep seeing here are a bunch of stat nerds that are basing their arguments off purely stats instead of what they bring to the table on the court.This is a similar problem with LeBron,Westbrook and Harden.THEIR STATS DON'T MATCH HOW THEY PLAY ON THE COURT!! :facepalm:facepalm:facepalm

Personal stats, making teammates better and team success clearly have no part in this discussion!

We must only consider...wait, what’s the argument again for vucevic >jokic?

[ShawkFactory]

All I keep seeing here are a bunch of stat nerds that are basing their arguments off purely stats instead of what they bring to the table on the court.This is a similar problem with LeBron,Westbrook and Harden.THEIR STATS DON'T MATCH HOW THEY PLAY ON THE COURT!! :facepalm:facepalm:facepalm

So what is Jokic lacking that Vucevic has :lol

If anything, Jokic is one of those guys who’s impact goes beyond his numbers. Comparing him to Westbrook is ridiculous. Most aren’t even bothering to discuss his stats, which don’t blow anyone away.

Saying Vucevic > Jokic is like saying that Zach Lavine is better than Jimmy Butler.

[PhutureDynasty]

I'm a Sixers fan who is at least trying to be unbiased.

Some posters in here calling Embiid trash or that the debate between him and Jokic isn't close are frankly bad trolls or simply just have bad takes.

[GOBB]

Ok so neither of us care. Let’s just combine the strengths of the two to make the ultimate center to defeat vucevic


Nikoel jokbiid!

Hahahahahahaa

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Personal stats, making teammates better and team success clearly have no part in this discussion!

We must only consider...wait, what’s the argument again for vucevic >jokic?
Better rebounder,better defensive player,more skilled in the post.Jokic is slow and clumsy.


So what is Jokic lacking that Vucevic has :lol
If you read my post earlier I put Vucevic => Jokic but if you actually watched Magic games you'd realize Vucevic is the better rebounder and the better post player.Jokic can score from outside but so can Vucevic.
If anything, Jokic is one of those guys who’s impact goes beyond his numbers.
Comparing him to Westbrook is ridiculous. Most aren’t even bothering to discuss his stats, which don’t blow anyone away.
His impact is overrated,Dwight put the clamps on him when they matched up.You guys acting like Jokic is this great dominant transcendant player when he's not.He's not a superstar at best you can say he's a star level player.You keep talking about his stats but on the offensive end as a scorer and shooter he does nothing that Vucevic can't do.


Saying Vucevic > Jokic is like saying that Zach Lavine is better than Jimmy Butler.
Lavine is not the scorer that Butler is and is dogshit on defense what a terrible comparison.Vucevic can score from anywhere on the court like Jokic can and grab boards.

[Kblaze8855]

Watching this game right now the Raptors doubling the absolute shit outta Embiid. You can see the frustration. They aren’t helping him much at all. Simmons not even in so he’s not the issue at the moment. He sure could use a guy like Murray at times.

[NugzFan]

Better rebounder,better defensive player,more skilled in the post.Jokic is slow and clumsy.

you are still trying to hard. slow and clumsy?

btw: in the last 4 years, vucevic averaged 10.85 rebounds per game, jokic 10.45 rebounds per game.

this is part of your defense?



His impact is overrated,Dwight put the clamps on him when they matched up.You guys acting like Jokic is this great dominant transcendant player when he's not.He's not a superstar at best you can say he's a star level player.You keep talking about his stats but on the offensive end as a scorer and shooter he does nothing that Vucevic can't do.

you have your narrative down...the fun is watching you try and justify it. keep it up!

https://media3.giphy.com/media/hVTouq08miyVo1a21m/200.webp?cid=ecf05e4713zxtuxoskq7isdgv1qbcrjlryu0o ky9euc3496f&rid=200.webp


Lavine is not the scorer that Butler is and is dogshit on defense what a terrible comparison.Vucevic can score from anywhere on the court like Jokic can and grab boards.

whats a good comparison to vucevic vs jokic?

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

you are still trying to hard. slow and clumsy?

this is part of your defense?
No I'm talking about defending in the post,Vucevic is the more capable defensive player/superior shot blocker.Watching Jokic play defense is pure comedy.



whats a good comparison to vucevic vs jokic?
What's a good comparison to Embiid vs Jokic?

[ShawkFactory]

Better rebounder,better defensive player,more skilled in the post.Jokic is slow and clumsy.


His impact is overrated,Dwight put the clamps on him when they matched up.You guys acting like Jokic is this great dominant transcendant player when he's not.He's not a superstar at best you can say he's a star level player.You keep talking about his stats but on the offensive end as a scorer and shooter he does nothing that Vucevic can't do.

Lavine is not the scorer that Butler is and is dogshit on defense what a terrible comparison.Vucevic can score from anywhere on the court like Jokic can and grab boards.
Lavine just scored 26 a game last year. And can do it from multiple levels.

He’s just not as impactful overall as a player. That was the point.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Lavine just scored 26 a game last year. And can do it from multiple levels.

He’s just not as impactful overall as a player. That was the point.

He only did that out of 60 games and plus Butler became more of a playmaker when he went to Miami if he wanted to he could have scored more.You saying he can do it from all levels but still hasn't made the playoffs nor has he proven himself in the playoffs or the finals.I'm still taking Butler over him as a scorer at the end of the day.He's already proven many times he can close out games and hit gamewinners.

[ShawkFactory]

He only did that out of 60 games and plus Butler became more of a playmaker when he went to Miami if he wanted to he could have scored more.You saying he can do it from all levels but still hasn't made the playoffs nor has he proven himself in the playoffs or the finals.I'm still taking Butler over him as a scorer at the end of the day.He's already proven many times he can close out games and hit gamewinners.
Read your post back...literally everything you just said could pertain to Jokic being better than Vucevic. All you have to do is change the names.

Even down to the games played (Vucevic played 62).

Thanks for that.

[RRR3]

OrlandoMagicGuy showing off an astounding level of idiocy in this thread. Vucevic>Jokic? LeBron’s stats make him look better than he is?

What a ****ing retard

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

OrlandoMagicGuy showing off an astounding level of idiocy in this thread. Vucevic>Jokic? LeBron’s stats make him look better than he is?
Read my earlier posts


LeBron’s stats make him look better than he is?
Yeah,LAL already covered this


What a ****ing retard
Pretty bold thing to say behind the keyboard


Read your post back...literally everything you just said could pertain to Jokic being better than Vucevic. All you have to do is change the names.

Even down to the games played (Vucevic played 62).

Thanks for that.

Nope not really read back the previous posts about why I think Vucevic is better.At best they are equal,I truly believe if they switched places Vucevic would still put up numbers in Denver,Jokic isn't getting MVP votes if he played in Orlando.

[RRR3]

Literally no one takes LAL seriously. You might want to cite someone who isn’t a notoriously braindead troll when you’re trying to argue a consensus top 3 player of all time isn’t as good as their stats :oldlol:

I don’t care what you have to say about Vucevic vs. Jokic. It’s an insane comparison. It’s like arguing Rik Smits versus Patrick Ewing.

[Marchesk]

Watching this game right now the Raptors doubling the absolute shit outta Embiid. You can see the frustration. They aren’t helping him much at all. Simmons not even in so he’s not the issue at the moment. He sure could use a guy like Murray at times.

Or Harden ...

[ThatCoolKid]

I'm not sure why you think Embiid is a better scorer. Jokic is the better shooter and the more reliable creator and post scorer down the stretch of games. Embiid gets to the free throw line a lot but struggles to create good shots in crunch time.

Also being a "better scorer" does not occur in isololation from play making abilities. Jokic's playmaking makes him a much greater offensive player than Embiid. You can build an elite modern NBA offense around Jokic. Jokic can single-handedly lead an offense in the playoffs. Embiid can't.

Embiid has the advantage on the defensive end, but we all know that offense is more important for star players. And Jokic can survive defensively in the playoffs, it's not a big deal.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Literally no one takes LAL seriously. You might want to cite someone who isn’t a notoriously braindead troll when you’re trying to argue a consensus top 3 player of all time isn’t as good as their stats :oldlol:
Consensus top 3?So worldwide people got LeBron over Kareem,Bird,Kobe,Wilt and Magic?


I don’t care what you have to say about Vucevic vs. Jokic.
But here you are


It’s an insane comparison. It’s like arguing Rik Smits versus Patrick Ewing.
Another bad comparison,Jokic and Vucevic are literally in the same tier.Smits and Ewing are not.

[ShawkFactory]

Consensus top 3?So worldwide people got LeBron over Kareem,Bird,Kobe,Wilt and Magic?

But here you are

Another bad comparison,Jokic and Vucevic are literally in the same tier.Smits and Ewing are not.
Vucevic has been an all star literally one time.

They are not on the same tier.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Vucevic has been an all star literally one time.

They are not on the same tier.

I already knew that but currently why isn't Jokic playing at a higher level than Vooch if that's the case?Jokic should be a 27/15/10 guy plus elite defense if he's on a higher tier.Jokic can shoot the 3 ball but so can Vucevic.All that we've gotten out of this debate is that they are on par with each other.

[ShawkFactory]

I already knew that but currently why isn't Jokic playing at a higher level than Vooch if that's the case?Jokic should be a 27/15/10 guy plus elite defense if he's on a higher tier.Jokic can shoot the 3 ball but so can Vucevic.All that we've gotten out of this debate is that they are on par with each other.
So a guy would have to go 27/15/10 (something that’s literally never been done by a center before) to be on a tier above a 20/10/4 guy?

And wasn’t this not about stats? The fact that Jokic is a leader who can orchestrate an offense doesn’t matter now?

Jesus.

[RRR3]

Consensus top 3?So worldwide people got LeBron over Kareem,Bird,Kobe,Wilt and Magic?

But here you are

Another bad comparison,Jokic and Vucevic are literally in the same tier.Smits and Ewing are not.
You haven’t been paying attention if you don’t think LeBron has passed most if not all of those people in the majority’s eyes. It’s him and Jordan now, regardless of how angry that makes you. You can keep denying it all you want but you will look ridiculous.

And they’re not in the same tier. Dafuq? Jokic is a top 10 player. Is Vucevic even top 50?

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

So a guy would have to go 27/15/10 (something that’s literally never been done by a center before) to be on a tier above a 20/10/4 guy?

And wasn’t this not about stats? The fact that Jokic is a leader who can orchestrate an offense doesn’t matter now?

Jesus.

You're in deep denial,outside of passing Jokic does nothing better than Vucevic so they are in fact on the same tier.


You haven’t been paying attention if you don’t think LeBron has passed most if not all of those people in the majority’s eyes. It’s him and Jordan now, regardless of how angry that makes you. You can keep denying it all you want but you will look ridiculous.
LeBron surpassed everyone but Jordan according to LeBron fans or everyone in general?And plus what is the criteria for LeBron being top 3?


I don’t care what you have to say about Vucevic vs. Jokic.


And they’re not in the same tier. Dafuq?Is Vucevic even top 50?
Vucevic can score and shoot just like Jokic.Do you even have a top 50 list?


Jokic is a top 10 player.
Durant
Kawhi
AD
Butler
LeBron
Steph
Giannis
Kyrie
Luka
Embiid
Harden
PG
Dame
Booker
CP3
Tatum
Simmons

Top 10 my ass

[RRR3]

You're in deep denial,outside of passing Jokic does nothing better than Vucevic so they are in fact on the same tier.


LeBron surpassed everyone but Jordan according to LeBron fans or everyone in general?And plus what is the criteria for LeBron being top 3?


Vucevic can score and shoot just like Jokic.Do you even have a top 50 list?

Durant
Kawhi
AD
Butler
LeBron
Steph
Giannis
Kyrie
Luka
Embiid
Harden
PG
Dame
Booker
CP3
Tatum
Simmons

Top 10 my ass
:roll:

Your IQ is 75 tops :oldlol:

CP3 isn’t better anymore he was tho.

[Kings2024Champs]

Vooch over jokic would get you laughed out the thread on even the most homer magic sites. Im sure even vooch would take jokic over himself :lol

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

:roll:

Your IQ is 75 tops :oldlol:
Jokic isn't better than Butler or Embiid we have to factor both sides of the ball.Why the hell would you take Jokic over Kyrie & Booker as scorers? :facepalm


CP3 isn’t better anymore he was tho.
He took OKC to the playoffs and finished top 10 in MVP voting he's still a top 20 player


Vooch over jokic would get you laughed out the thread on even the most homer magic sites. Im sure even vooch would take jokic over himself
It took a whole bunch of you guys to try and convince 1 guy that Jokic is this great dominant player but still can't explain how he's at a higher tier from Vucevic when he does nothing better outside of passing.Yep they're in the same tier.

[imdaman99]

If Jokic and Vuc switched teams, Magic would become top 2 seed in the east and Nuggets would become... possible play in game contenders, if things break right :pimp:

Jokic another triple double :rockon:

[bison]

Nuggets struggling.

[Axe]

So we're preferring vucevic over jokic only because the magic are now 4-0? :oldlol:

[bison]

Comparing jokic to vucacic, now we are heading into low IQ territory.

[CtrlAltDel]

OrlandoMagicGuy, is there any intelligent life in your noggin?

Embiid needs to play 90% of a NBA season to even be in discussion of who’s the best player in his position. Games played of 0, 0, 31, 63, 64, 51 is downright pathetic. Best position players should be full time basketball players, not part time load management players. If he can’t play 75 games or above in his early days, you can kiss his longevity goodbye when he gets older. For a player of Embiid size, he hasn’t shot over 50% from the field. Normally big men shoot over 50% from the field. Instead of trying to be a shooting guard on the offensive end, he should focus on being a big man.

[StrongLurk]

Jokic with another trip-dub last night...but he had 10 turnovers.

He is having a crazy start to the season with 25/12/13.5 on 62/40/80, but he is also averaging 6 turnovers.

Regardless, Jokic is better than Embiid.

Jokic for his playoff career is 25/11/7 on 60.6 TS%, 26.9 PER, and 9.3 BPM.
Embiid for his playoff career is 22/11.5/3 on 55.4 TS%, 21.4 PER, and 4.1 BPM.

Embiid has the defensive advantage but that doesn't make up for the offensive gap. Embiid is also very injury-prone.

[GOBB]

Jokic with another trip-dub last night...but he had 10 turnovers.

He is having a crazy start to the season with 25/12/13.5 on 62/40/80, but he is also averaging 6 turnovers.

Regardless, Jokic is better than Embiid.

Jokic for his playoff career is 25/11/7 on 60.6 TS%, 26.9 PER, and 9.3 BPM.
Embiid for his playoff career is 22/11.5/3 on 55.4 TS%, 21.4 PER, and 4.1 BPM.

Embiid has the defensive advantage but that doesn't make up for the offensive gap. Embiid is also very injury-prone.

Embiid avg more ppg
Embiid avg more ppg for his career
Embiid has more all nba selections

Somehow his passing ability trumps that and makes him a better offensive player. Hilarious.

Westbrook with another triple double. Doubt dude is in your top 10 players in the NBA. Keep it up tho bud.

[SATAN]

Triple doubles aren't that impressive these days imo.

Unless it's LeBron that is.

[Wally450]

Embiid avg more ppg
Embiid avg more ppg for his career
Embiid has more all nba selections

Somehow his passing ability trumps that and makes him a better offensive player. Hilarious.

Westbrook with another triple double. Doubt dude is in your top 10 players in the NBA. Keep it up tho bud.

He's not a top 10 player. Dude can average a triple double all he wants. It doesn't translate to wins and we continue to see that this year.

[StrongLurk]

19/12/12 tonight