Remember when Pippen cutting his teeth on Bad Boys II (92 knicks) nearly caused upset

[trada7029]

of course you don't remember because no one tracked pippen's performance back then - it was all about MJ, who stepped in on Pippen's behalf in Game 7 to stop X-man from giving Pippen another "migraine":


https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-07-2019/4EMYLq.gif


the winning spotlight gave pippen accolades, but no one cared how he performed because pippen's peak was below other stars and wasn't high (so no one expected a big game)

Pippen vs physical teams

88' Pippen vs Pistons... 10 on 46%
89' Pippen vs Pistons... 10 on 40%
90' Pippen vs Pistons... 16 on 42%
92' Pippen vs Knicks.'... 16 on 40% (destroyed by X-man)
96' Pippen vs Knicks.'... 15 on 33%
96' Pippen vs Sonics..'.. 15 on 34%
97' Pippen vs Heat........ 16 on 40%
98' Pippen vs Pacers.... 16 on 39%


^^^ having pippen didn't consitute a "stacked deck", whereas forming a super-team in a conference that weak teams routinely won to guarantee Finals births is the definition of stacking the deck, or teaming up with the playoff scoring leader (new kareem)

[3ball]

Wow that's interesting.. I didn't know that Pippen routinely "Paul George'd" the playoffs and played so poorly.

[1987_Lakers]

Didn't MJ shoot 40% against this same Knicks team in '93?

Pippen in game 3 of the '93 series had 29 points on 10 of 12 shooting, MJ shot 3 of 18, this is with Chicago being down 0-2, in a sense, Pippen prevented the Knicks from sweeping them.

In a closeout game 6 Pippen shot 9 of 18, MJ shot 8 of 24, Scottie was basically the MVP in that game as well.

[3ball]

Didn't MJ shoot 40% against this same Knicks team in '93?

Pippen in game 3 of the '93 series had 29 points on 10 of 12 shooting, MJ shot 3 of 18, this is with Chicago being down 0-2, in a sense, Pippen prevented the Knicks from sweeping them.

In a closeout game 6 Pippen shot 9 of 18, MJ shot 8 of 24, Scottie was basically the MVP in that game as well.

Game 3 was a gimmie that the Knicks were giving away and down 30 at halftime - neither MJ or Pippen were needed

And anyone that watched back then knows that opponents threw everything at MJ, which set up everything in the bulls offense... So a rare 29 points from Pippen was nothing because no one noticed his open flow points and the game wasn't focused there.. let alone in a gimmie blowout game

Otoh, Jordan's 54 in game 4 set up Game 5 (knicks had to adjust)

Ultimately, only pippen underperformed in that series and got outplayed, so that's why the bulls almost lost as a big favorite... And that's true of any close series or loss because mj never had a bad series.. only pippen did

[Kblaze8855]

6 minutes is all you could wait to reply to yourself as an alt?

[3ball]

6 minutes is all you could wait to reply to yourself as an alt?

I'm inexperienced and take a back seat.. I'm a pippen when it comes to alts

[warriorfan]

Wow that's interesting.. I didn't know that Pippen routinely "Paul George'd" the playoffs and played so poorly.

Pippen was the original Paul George. Except worse.

[RRR3]

6 minutes is all you could wait to reply to yourself as an alt?
He has no interest in posting about anything besides MJ and LeBron.

[1987_Lakers]

Game 3 was a gimmie that the Knicks were giving away and down 30 at halftime - neither MJ or Pippen were needed


Why do you continue to lie? The Knicks were down 19 at halftime, not 30.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199305290CHI.html

Are you going to say you made an honest mistake just how you lied about how many points MJ had in the '89 series vs Detroit?

[Bronbron23]

of course you don't remember because no one tracked pippen's performance back then - it was all about MJ, who stepped in on Pippen's behalf in Game 7 to stop X-man from giving Pippen another "migraine":


https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-07-2019/4EMYLq.gif


the winning spotlight gave pippen accolades, but no one cared how he performed because pippen's peak was below other stars and wasn't high (so no one expected a big game)

Pippen vs physical teams

88' Pippen vs Pistons... 10 on 46%
89' Pippen vs Pistons... 10 on 40%
90' Pippen vs Pistons... 16 on 42%
92' Pippen vs Knicks.'... 16 on 40% (destroyed by X-man)
96' Pippen vs Knicks.'... 15 on 33%
96' Pippen vs Sonics..'.. 15 on 34%
97' Pippen vs Heat........ 16 on 40%
98' Pippen vs Pacers.... 16 on 39%


^^^ having pippen didn't consitute a "stacked deck", whereas forming a super-team in a conference that weak teams routinely won to guarantee Finals births is the definition of stacking the deck, or teaming up with the playoff scoring leader (new kareem)

Your neglecting the other half of the ball which was pips biggest strength.

[warriorfan]

He has no interest in posting about anything besides MJ and LeBron.

If this was a pro LeBron thread from wheels and co, how much do you want to bet Kblaze wouldn’t be in here complaining about alts? :lol

[Docs Orders]

6 minutes is all you could wait to reply to yourself as an alt?

:roll:

[3ball]

Your neglecting the other half of the ball which was pips biggest strength.


1992 ECSF

X-man..... 19 on 50% (above his normal average)
Pippen.... 16 on 40% (below his normal average)


So Pippen's defense is why the series went longer than predicted, along with his standard weak offense

But pippen's defense was always just a bad excuse for his weak offense - if AD scored like Pippen, the Lakers would've lost in the 1st round.. so if AD's playoff-leading scoring was replaced with pippen's 16 on 40%, the Lakers would need greater scoring from lebron, and a better brand that maximized teammates better.

Ultimately, having pippen didn't consitute a "stacked deck", whereas forming a super-team in a conference that weak teams routinely won is the definition of stacking the deck, or teaming up with the playoff scoring leader (new kareem)

[1987_Lakers]

1992 ECSF

X-man..... 19 on 50% (above his normal average)
Pippen.... 16 on 40% (below his normal average)


So Pippen's defense is why the series went longer than predicted, along with his standard weak offense

But pippen's defense was always just a bad excuse for his weak offense - if AD scored like Pippen, the Lakers would've lost in the 1st round.. so if AD's playoff-leading scoring was replaced with pippen's 16 on 40%, the Lakers would need greater scoring from lebron, and a better brand that maximized teammates better.

Ultimately, having pippen didn't consitute a "stacked deck", whereas forming a super-team in a conference that weak teams routinely won is the definition of stacking the deck, or teaming up with the playoff scoring leader (new kareem)

Why did you lie about the Bulls being up 30 at halftime?

[3ball]

Why did you lie about the Bulls being up 30 at halftime?

By memory, not a lie

pippen getting 29 points is like Boobie getting 29 except in a blowout, gimmie game, not a nail-biter clutch shots like boobie

[sdot_thadon]

I'm inexperienced and take a back seat.. I'm a pippen when it comes to alts

That's a damn lie lol. You've had a ton of accounts, keep it real.

[sdot_thadon]

If this was a pro LeBron thread from wheels and co, how much do you want to bet Kblaze wouldn’t be in here complaining about alts? :lol

I've never got the impression Kblaze even cares too much for Lebron, he just isn't an idiot.

[3ball]

I've never got the impression Kblaze even cares too much for Lebron, he just isn't an idiot.

99.99% of my posts are on 3ball but I might have 3 or 4 others with like 5 posts each for the times I got banned. I don't remember what they are except the OP handle that is recent

[sdot_thadon]

99.99% of my posts are on 3ball but I might have 3 or 4 others with like 5 posts each for the times I got banned. I don't remember what they are except the OP handle that is recent

Yeah that's just here at ish, I watched them play whack a mole with your accounts other places too:oldlol:

[Kblaze8855]

I've never got the impression Kblaze even cares too much for Lebron, he just isn't an idiot.

Know what’s funny?

Everyone who knows me in person thinks I hate Lebron. I had to pay 4 people at work when they won the title because all the Lebron fans....feel a need to bet me...the supposed Lebron hater. And it’s always a smart bet from my end because I get the field. It’s just a “Lebron won’t win” bet. Usually not much money. Two of them were for 1 and 2 dollars. Why?


Because I set the terms and I make it annoying because the money isn’t the issue. I had a bet for a two dollar bill....and a crisp never folded 1 dollar bill.

Of course I knew where to get the 2 dollar bill if I lost. A strip club here that gives change in 2s as a clever way to make you tip more.

I use those bets for the people at work who don’t wanna bet real money but do feel a need to talk about the bets going on. Just a bit of fun. I want to inconvenience you when I win. Make you go to the bank and get in line for a fresh never bent dollar or not live up to your word.

Over the years with all the won and lost bets and weird stipulations combined with being the Jordan fan Chicago native I’m just...the Lebron hater. My friends do it too. This very morning a guy I’ve known since 1992 sent me a video of Shannon Sharpe saying “Serge Ibaka, Chewbacca, Waka flocka.... Lakers in 5” because he’s a Lebron and laker fan and knows I wanted the Clippers to win.

Then I get online and the weird ass Lebron haters think I love him.

Life is funny.

[sdot_thadon]

Know what’s funny?

Everyone who knows me in person thinks I hate Lebron. I had to pay 4 people at work when they won the title because all the Lebron fans....feel a need to bet me...the supposed Lebron hater. And it’s always a smart bet from my end because I get the field. It’s just a “Lebron won’t win” bet. Usually not much money. Two of them were for 1 and 2 dollars. Why?


Because I set the terms and I make it annoying because the money isn’t the issue. I had a bet for a two dollar bill....and a crisp never folded 1 dollar bill.

Of course I knew where to get the 2 dollar bill if I lost. A strip club here that gives change in 2s as a clever way to make you tip more.

I use those bets for the people at work who don’t wanna bet real money but do feel a need to talk about the bets going on. Just a bit of fun. I want to inconvenience you when I win. Make you go to the bank and get in line for a fresh never bent dollar or not live up to your word.

Over the years with all the won and lost bets and weird stipulations combined with being the Jordan fan Chicago native I’m just...the Lebron hater. My friends do it too. This very morning a guy I’ve known since 1992 sent me a video of Shannon Sharpe saying “Serge Ibaka, Chewbacca, Waka flocka.... Lakers in 5” because he’s a Lebron and laker fan and knows I wanted the Clippers to win.

Then I get online and the weird ass Lebron haters think I love him.

Life is funny.

I get it, I was that guy when it came to Kobe but it was the opposite. I actually was a fan of his just by proxy of being a Mj stan when I was young. But talking basketball usually painted me as a Kobe hater. As big as a fan of Mj as I am, the stans here think I'm a hater too.

[Smoke117]

Didn't MJ shoot 40% against this same Knicks team in '93?

Pippen in game 3 of the '93 series had 29 points on 10 of 12 shooting, MJ shot 3 of 18, this is with Chicago being down 0-2, in a sense, Pippen prevented the Knicks from sweeping them.

In a closeout game 6 Pippen shot 9 of 18, MJ shot 8 of 24, Scottie was basically the MVP in that game as well.

Thread is definitely amusing considering how the 93 series played out.

Anyway, 1-9.

[Kblaze8855]

I get it, I was that guy when it came to Kobe but it was the opposite. I actually was a fan of his just by proxy of being a Mj stan when I was young. But talking basketball usually painted me as a Kobe hater. As big as a fan of Mj as I am, the stans here think I'm a hater too.



This is the shit I get in my group chat middle of the night from one of my closest friends:


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2012060208260371.jpeg





Shannon Sharpe talking shit.

Wade family photo unrelated and I won’t bother with the backstory but....it’s an apt response if you knew said story.


Personal friends....work....I’m the Lebron hater. Online....I’m a fan....and I say the exact same thing to all 3 groups of people. That’s how I know it’s just people having emotional connections and not any problem with what I think.

People take the same words to mean entirely different things because of where they are standing. People as far gone and 3 ball could see you hit Lebron in the head with a brick then call you a Lebron stan because you didn’t shoot him.

[sdot_thadon]

This is the shit I get in my group chat middle of the night from one of my closest friends:


https://www.hostpic.org/images/2012060208260371.jpeg





Shannon Sharpe talking shit.

Wade family photo unrelated and I won’t bother with the backstory but....it’s an apt response if you knew said story.


Personal friends....work....I’m the Lebron hater. Online....I’m a fan....and I say the exact same thing to all 3 groups of people. That’s how I know it’s just people having emotional connections and not any problem with what I think.

People take the same words to mean entirely different things because of where they are standing. People as far gone and 3 ball could see you hit Lebron in the head with a brick then call you a Lebron stan because you didn’t shoot him.

Yeah that looks like shit they drop in our group chat too. Funny thing about polarizing guys, I've never seen anything like it before Kobe, kind of a similar deal with Mayweather if you're a boxing fan. These guys manage to get such a deep emotional investment from fans on both ends. Wish I could harness that and profit from It in a day to day life. Maybe it's time to start a message board:lol

[3ball]

Thread is definitely amusing considering how the 93 series played out.

Anyway, 1-9.


Jordan led Pippen in every category in the 93' ECF:

Jordan... 32.2 ppg.. 7.0 apg.. 2.3 tov.. 2.5 spg.. 1.0 bpg.. 113 ortg
Pippen... 22.5 ppg.. 4.0 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.5 bpg.. 104 ortg


So the 93' series was another carry-job like the 92' series

[AussieSteve]

Pippen was the original Paul George. Except worse.

What do you think you're narrative on Paul George would be if he join need lebron?

[Bronbron23]

1992 ECSF

X-man..... 19 on 50% (above his normal average)
Pippen.... 16 on 40% (below his normal average)


So Pippen's defense is why the series went longer than predicted, along with his standard weak offense

But pippen's defense was always just a bad excuse for his weak offense - if AD scored like Pippen, the Lakers would've lost in the 1st round.. so if AD's playoff-leading scoring was replaced with pippen's 16 on 40%, the Lakers would need greater scoring from lebron, and a better brand that maximized teammates better.

Ultimately, having pippen didn't consitute a "stacked deck", whereas forming a super-team in a conference that weak teams routinely won is the definition of stacking the deck, or teaming up with the playoff scoring leader (new kareem)

Pip never really gaurded one guy though. He roamed and helped a shit ton so showing x mans individual numbers is in no way a reflection on pips defensive impact.

I agree pip wasnt a great offensive threat though.

[HoopsNY]

Way to ruin an iconic moment. Knick fans like myself remember that series. I remember hearing from my dad as we watched the game, "man, I didn't think anyone could stand up to X-Man like that!"

And that's what I got from that play. Jordan was a tough dude, cause you had to really be crazy to get in X-Man's face like that. No one sitting there, not my dad, nor my uncles, proceeded to shit on Pippen. So why are you, now nearly 30 years later, deciding to do so?

[tpols]

People say no pip no chip. Which is hilarious in and of itself but let's entertain it.

Xavier McDaniel was picked in the 1st round, 4th overall. Pippen? 5th overall. Diferent years, but you can see... McDaniel was just as touted as Pippen was if not more so since he was even more lotto. Now imagine the X-man with MJ. That just sounds ominous. They would've done the same thing or better. We saw the two H2H in '92... Pippen got sonned. X was just as tough a defender, but with a better offensive game. And an Alpha.

The Bulls could've 3peated with X-man and MJ just as easily as they could have with Pippen.

[HoopsNY]

People say no pip no chip. Which is hilarious in and of itself but let's entertain it.

Xavier McDaniel was picked in the 1st round, 4th overall. Pippen? 5th overall. Diferent years, but you can see... McDaniel was just as touted as Pippen was if not more so since he was even more lotto. Now imagine the X-man with MJ. That just sounds ominous. They would've done the same thing or better. We saw the two H2H in '92... Pippen got sonned. X was just as tough a defender, but with a better offensive game. And an Alpha.

The Bulls could've 3peated with X-man and MJ just as easily as they could have with Pippen.

But was X-Man the same transition player? Was he the same playmaker? X-Man also declined after 1991. Now those who watched him play then realized part of that was due to his role, but he still wasn't the same guy in 1993 as he was in 1988, or even 1993.

Having said that, I do think Chicago wins at least 2 chips with him, and maybe more because X-Man in 1988 and 1989 was a beast. So 3-4 titles is possible.

[tpols]

But was X-Man the same transition player? Was he the same playmaker? X-Man also declined after 1991. Now those who watched him play then realized part of that was due to his role, but he still wasn't the same guy in 1993 as he was in 1988, or even 1993.

Having said that, I do think Chicago wins at least 2 chips with him, and maybe more because X-Man in 1988 and 1989 was a beast. So 3-4 titles is possible.

He declined in 1991, yet outscored and vastly outshot Pippen H2H in 1992? Shit... early 90's Pippen is peak Pippen. So if a washed up X-man could son him so bad, I shudder to think what a prime would do. The Bulls probably would've beat Detroit before then had they had X. That guy was un-punkable, meanwhile Scottie was the definition.

[3ball]

But was X-Man the same transition player? Was he the same playmaker? X-Man also declined after 1991. Now those who watched him play then realized part of that was due to his role, but he still wasn't the same guy in 1993 as he was in 1988, or even 1993.

Having said that, I do think Chicago wins at least 2 chips with him, and maybe more because X-Man in 1988 and 1989 was a beast. So 3-4 titles is possible.

Tpols might be trolling a tad.. but most people don't realize that Jordan was competitive with the 88-90' Pistons despite nothing from Pippen, so anyone else would've won with Jordan, including X-man

X-man averaged 22/7/3 over his first 5 seasons, including 25/9/4 against the Lakers in the 87' Playoffs - that's easily enough to replace Pippen's 12 on 42% vs the 88-90' Pistons and 3-peat those years.. Jordan almost beat those Pistons with nothing from Pippen, so young Xavier would've won alongside Jordan

And if you don't like X-man, how about "Piston-killer" and FMVP Worthy - he could've replaced pippen and 3-peated from 88-90'.. or Dominique, who led a sub-par roster to 57 wins and 7 games vs Celtics

So tons of guys would've done what pippen did... Otoh, how many guys can win with pippen?.. Ewing had a sidekick outplay pippen 3 times but went 0-3 (89', 92', 96')...

And everyone that won 3+ rings needed a teammate to get at least 1 FMVP or average 25-30 in a Finals, so how could anyone win 3 with pippen, let alone 6?

[SATAN]

of course you don't remember because no one tracked pippen's performance back then - it was all about MJ, who stepped in on Pippen's behalf in Game 7 to stop X-man from giving Pippen another "migraine":


https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-07-2019/4EMYLq.gif


the winning spotlight gave pippen accolades, but no one cared how he performed because pippen's peak was below other stars and wasn't high (so no one expected a big game)

Pippen vs physical teams

88' Pippen vs Pistons... 10 on 46%
89' Pippen vs Pistons... 10 on 40%
90' Pippen vs Pistons... 16 on 42%
92' Pippen vs Knicks.'... 16 on 40% (destroyed by X-man)
96' Pippen vs Knicks.'... 15 on 33%
96' Pippen vs Sonics..'.. 15 on 34%
97' Pippen vs Heat........ 16 on 40%
98' Pippen vs Pacers.... 16 on 39%


^^^ having pippen didn't consitute a "stacked deck", whereas forming a super-team in a conference that weak teams routinely won to guarantee Finals births is the definition of stacking the deck, or teaming up with the playoff scoring leader (new kareem)

Xavier would have beat the shit out of MJ in any kind of real fight


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6e9izdHxiU

[3ball]

Xavier would have beat the shit out of MJ in any kind of real fight


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6e9izdHxiU

Maybe, but MJ's fearlessness was contagious, so guys like Paxson and Kerr stuck their shots, while lebron's teammates feel his fear and brick

[SATAN]

Maybe, but MJ's fearlessness was contagious, so guys like Paxson and Kerr stuck their shots, while lebron's teammates feel his fear and brick


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6e9izdHxiU

[WhiteKyrie]

If this was a pro LeBron thread from wheels and co, how much do you want to bet Kblaze wouldn’t be in here complaining about alts? :lol

:oldlol:

true story

[Axe]

People say no pip no chip. Which is hilarious in and of itself but let's entertain it.

Xavier McDaniel was picked in the 1st round, 4th overall. Pippen? 5th overall. Diferent years, but you can see... McDaniel was just as touted as Pippen was if not more so since he was even more lotto. Now imagine the X-man with MJ. That just sounds ominous. They would've done the same thing or better. We saw the two H2H in '92... Pippen got sonned. X was just as tough a defender, but with a better offensive game. And an Alpha.

The Bulls could've 3peated with X-man and MJ just as easily as they could have with Pippen.
All based on offensive capabilities? Lmfao.

[HoopsNY]

He declined in 1991, yet outscored and vastly outshot Pippen H2H in 1992? Shit... early 90's Pippen is peak Pippen. So if a washed up X-man could son him so bad, I shudder to think what a prime would do. The Bulls probably would've beat Detroit before then had they had X. That guy was un-punkable, meanwhile Scottie was the definition.

I agree with you to an extent, but it all cancels out. Chicago wins with X-Man in '89 and '90. But does Chicago win in '92 and '93? They probably have the same amount of rings if you swap him.

[HoopsNY]

Tpols might be trolling a tad.. but most people don't realize that Jordan was competitive with the 88-90' Pistons despite nothing from Pippen, so anyone else would've won with Jordan, including X-man

X-man averaged 22/7/3 over his first 5 seasons, including 25/9/4 against the Lakers in the 87' Playoffs - that's easily enough to replace Pippen's 12 on 42% vs the 88-90' Pistons and 3-peat those years.. Jordan almost beat those Pistons with nothing from Pippen, so young Xavier would've won alongside Jordan

And if you don't like X-man, how about "Piston-killer" and FMVP Worthy - he could've replaced pippen and 3-peated from 88-90'.. or Dominique, who led a sub-par roster to 57 wins and 7 games vs Celtics

So tons of guys would've done what pippen did... Otoh, how many guys can win with pippen?.. Ewing had a sidekick outplay pippen 3 times but went 0-3 (89', 92', 96')...

And everyone that won 3+ rings needed a teammate to get at least 1 FMVP or average 25-30 in a Finals, so how could anyone win 3 with pippen, let alone 6?

Fair enough, but Pippen was a 20/8/6 player on 47% in the playoffs in 1992 and 1993, with elite defensive play and playmaking ability. X-Man isn't giving you that level of production. So yea, the Bulls might win in 1989 and 1990, thus three-peating, but they stand a good chance of losing in 1992 and 1993.

[3ball]

Pippen was a 20/8/6 player on 47% in the playoffs in 1992 and 1993





Pippen was horrible in the 93' Playoffs with 50.5% true shooting (45% in the Finals), and worse production than 14' Wade (see stats above).

So don't cite the 93' Playoffs to boost Pippen - he was bad in those Playoffs - his only good Playoffs were 91'.

92' would've been okay except his poor play in the ECSF nearly caused a massive upset loss - only Jordan saved the bulls in the Game 7.. see the thread title





with elite defensive play and playmaking ability.



defense is something that 4th and 5th options use to excuse bad offense, not 2nd options - 2nd options cannot use defense to excuse bad offense.

And the Bulls were ranked 7th defensively during the 1st three-peat, while X-man's Knicks were #1

So defense is simply not a reason to say pippen does better on those Bulls than X-man...

accept the reality that pippen would be a complete nobody without MJ.. no one would give a shit or overrate his defense to excuse his offense - they would just say that he's a good defensive player but often a liability on offense - no one thinks defense makes up for a 2nd option's bad offense, except to prop up Pippen

[HoopsNY]

Pippen was 20/8/6 on 47% in the playoffs in '92-'93, whereas X-Man was 17/7/2 on 46%. You act as if X-Man's TS% was so much better than Pippen's.

X-Man's TS% was 50% to Pippen's 51%. You really gonna go off on Pippen's 1993 performance? Go look at X-Man's 1993 playoff performance and tell me he was better than Pippen.

Here, i'll do the work for you

X-Man 1993 Playoffs: 13.5/6/2 with a 44% TS%
Pippen 1993 Playoffs: 20/7/6 with a 50% TS%

Now was X-Man a better defender than Pippen? No.

Was X-Man a better playmaker than Pippen? Not even close.

Just quit while you're behind.