15' and 16' Cavs ruined their preseason favorite status by underperforming reg seas

[3ball]

which made them "fake" underdogs in the 16' Finals despite having initially-favored talent

It's the biggest fraud ever to say the 16' Finals was an upset when the Cavs had the favored talent but simply underperformed the regular season

[RRR3]

Devastated.

[Wally450]

You need to just let it go man.

That Warriors team was more talented than the Cavs.

[8Ball]

LeBron beat a team that was better than 96 Bulls.

73>72

[ThatCoolKid]

Warriors actually were advanced stats darlings in the 2014 when they were all healthy and pushed a very good Clippers team to 7 games. Coming into the 2014-15 season lineup data had them as the best team in the league with Curry, Klay, Dray, and Bogut on the floor together. Of course those players had not yet received their reputations that would come later in their careers so casuals didn't take note, but they got off to a hot start and never looked back.

Of course, the 2015 Cavs would have won the championship if not for injuries, but you already knew that.

[Roundball_Rock]

Why are MJ stans insecure that LeBron's 16' ring is more impressive than any of MJ's? MJ still has 1) more rangz 2) two threepeats. All is not lost. :cheers:


Devastated.

:lol

[8Ball]

They hate 2016 because 73 > 72.

Jordan had the greatest team of all time. 96 Bulls 72 wins. Impossible win record.

And LeBron defeated a team that won 73 wins.

That's the truth that burns them deep.

[Roundball_Rock]

What makes it hit even harder for them is Love played like a role player in the series. They can't legitimately go the "stacked team" route. That leaves Kyrie Irving, who you would think was the best PG by far of his era, by the way they talk about him when he is a 2x all-NBA player in 9 seasons.

[3ball]

That Warriors team was more talented than the Cavs.





So why were the Cavs favored in 15' and 16' preseasons?

They were favored because they had goat talent, much like the 11' Heat:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-15-2019/hYQBCO.gif


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/superteams-like-the-warriors-usually-underperform-will-the-kevin-durant-era-be-different/


^^^ so the 11' Heat and 15' Cavs had the most on-paper talent since 1980, up until the 17' Warriors

only an inferior brand stopped the favored Cavs from flirting with 70 wins like Kawhi and Curry did..

So it's sheer fraud to say the Cavs "upset" the warriors when they were initially favored, and only fell to underdog by underperforming the regular season

Ultimately, the "comp" argument is bogus when everyone knows that Lebron's teams had the most talent in the league, aka "not 6, not 7"

[Gus Hemmingway]

LeBron didn’t have any all star teammates in 2016, so they deserved to be underdogs

[3ball]

If the Warriors and Spurs flirted with 70 wins, then why didn't the Cavs?

Why were the Cavs much worse despite having equal or greater talent and being favored initially?

Why won't you guys address this?..

is it because you're numbers-bots and don't understand qualitative aspects like BRAND OF BALL?

is that why you won't address it?

So carry on the fraud.. you have no choice because you don't know any better

[Gus Hemmingway]

If the Warriors and Spurs flirted with 70 wins, then why didn't the Cavs?

Why were the Cavs much worse despite having equal or greater talent and being favored initially?

Why won't you guys address this?..

is it because you're numbers-bots and don't understand qualitative aspects like BRAND OF BALL?

is that why you won't address it?

Who were the all stars on the 2016 Cavs?

[Roundball_Rock]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/superteams-like-the-warriors-usually-underperform-will-the-kevin-durant-era-be-different/


Damn, the Bulls appear on there 4 times. So you finally admit the Bulls were stacked relative to their era? :oldlol:

That metric includes the best player so LeBron himself gives his teams a large boost. For looking at "help", here is what your own source had to say (for teams through 2015):


https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png?w=1150

The Bulls' "cast" was #1 and accounted for 3 of the top 6 casts. :bowdown:


If the Warriors and Spurs flirted with 70 wins, then why didn't the Cavs?

Good point. The Spurs were better than the Cavs and arguably so was OKC.

[3ball]

Who were the all stars on the 2016 Cavs?




Kyrie and Love are perennial all-stars, but kyrie missed regular season games in 16' so he wasn't all-star

Kyrie/Love were considered superior to Klay/Dray

[3ball]

Damn, the Bulls appear on there 4 times. So you finally admit the Bulls were stacked relative to their era? :oldlol:

That metric includes the best player so LeBron himself gives his teams a large boost. For looking at "help", here is what your own source had to say (for teams through 2015):


https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png?w=1150

The Bulls' "cast" was #1 and accounted for 3 of the top 6 casts. :bowdown:



Good point. The Spurs were better than the Cavs and arguably so was OKC.

Your list shows that Jordan's 91' and 93' rings were won with the least talent ever to win, except for the 11' Mavs and 94' Rockets - the 91/93 bulls at the BOTTOM of the list dumbass

So again, why were the Cavs much worse despite having equal or greater talent and being favored initially?

Why won't you guys address this?..

is it because you're numbers-bots and don't understand qualitative aspects like BRAND OF BALL?

is that why you won't address it?

So carry on the fraud... You have no choice because you don't know any better

[Roundball_Rock]

Kyrie/Love were considered superior to Klay/Dray

Let's check the tape.

All-stars (2015-2018)

2015 all-stars: Irving, Klay
2016 all-stars: Klay, Green
2017 all-stars: Klay, Green, Irving, Love
2018 all-stars: Klay, Green, Irving, Love

Klay, Green, Irving all made 3 all-star teams. Love is the laggard here. Irving, for all the hype, made a grand total of 1 team in 4 years.

All-NBA (2015-2018)

2015: Klay, Irving (both 3rd team)
2016: Green, Klay (Green 2nd team, Klay 3rd)
2017: Green (3rd)
2018: none

Again we find Love as the laggard with 0. Klay, Green lead with 2 each--with Green having the edge because he made a 2nd team.

The Warrior's players have the edge by both measures and notably they were the Warriors' 3rd/4th options for half this time frame. So the Warriors' 3rd/4th options were getting more accolades at the time than the Cavs' 2nd/3rd guys. Damn.

[3ball]

Let's check the tape.

All-stars (2015-2018)

2015 all-stars: Irving, Klay
2016 all-stars: Klay, Green
2017 all-stars: Klay, Green, Irving, Love
2018 all-stars: Klay, Green, Irving, Love

Klay, Green, Irving all made 3 all-star teams. Love is the laggard here. Irving, for all the hype, made a grand total of 1 team in 4 years.

All-NBA (2015-2018)

2015: Klay, Irving (both 3rd team)
2016: Green, Klay (Green 2nd team, Klay 3rd)
2017: Green (3rd)
2018: none

Again we find Love as the laggard with 0. Klay, Green lead with 2 each--with Green having the edge because he made a 2nd team.

The Warrior's players have the edge by both measures and notably they were the Warriors' 3rd/4th options for half this time frame. So the Warriors' 3rd/4th options were getting more accolades at the time than the Cavs' 2nd/3rd guys. Damn.
Kyrie was hurt in 16'

And Love would be all-nba in a ball movement system like the warriors

Lebron's ball-dominance simply killed him... This is statistical fact.. Lebron holds the ball twice as much each game compared to Curry or Durant, so his teammates have less opportunity

But carry on the bullshit.. the Cavs were favored in 15' and 16', while 538 said they had the most talent by far.. but they didn't factor in lebron's ball-dominance, which destroyed the Cavs' 3rd option

Klay averaged 20 alongside Durant, while lebron killed Love

[Roundball_Rock]

Kyrie was hurt in 16'

He has been hurt in literally every year of his career. You guys can't have it both ways: invoke him as this superstar player and then invoke his injuries. If he can't play full seasons, that hurts his teams. If he isn't there at all when his teams need him the most in 3 of the last 6 years in the playoffs, that is a big problem. Teams don't get credit for his YouTube highlights when he is wearing a suit. All-time greats show up for full seasons and the playoffs.

Then we have the elephant in the room: when Irving gets hurt, the team impact is minimal at best. His teams the last three years have consistently been better without him when he was out with injury, as was Boston when they replaced him with the "Coke Zero" version of Kyrie (HT: Phoenix :cheers: ). If he is what MJ stans say he was, why does this keep happening?

[3ball]

Why does Klay average 22 alongside Durant, but Love gets destroyed by Lebron?

Anyone?

Could it be that Durant gets elite stats while holding the ball for 4.6 minutes per game, while Lebron needs 9.6 minutes, thus giving teammates 5 less minutes of hold-time?

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1


Could that be it?..... lol..... This shit is intuitive... carry on the fraud tho...

[8Ball]

What makes it hit even harder for them is Love played like a role player in the series. They can't legitimately go the "stacked team" route. That leaves Kyrie Irving, who you would think was the best PG by far of his era, by the way they talk about him when he is a 2x all-NBA player in 9 seasons.

Love had a concussion for the series.

[Roundball_Rock]

Love had a concussion for the series.

MJ stans in another thread are saying that doesn't count because he was "cleared." I am taking their premise but I agree with you. His splits tell the tale.

Love in the PO pre-concussion (15 games): 17/10/2 39% FG 13.5 GS
Love in the PO post-concussion (4 games): 7/6/2 35% 5.9 GS

[1987_Lakers]

Why does Klay average 22 alongside Durant, but Love gets destroyed by Lebron?

Anyone?

Could it be that Durant gets elite stats while holding the ball for 4.6 minutes per game, while Lebron needs 9.6 minutes, thus giving teammates 5 less minutes of hold-time?

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1


Could that be it?..... lol..... This shit is intuitive... carry on the fraud tho...

Easy, Klay gets most of his points moving off the ball, catch and shoot. Love played on bad Minnosota team where he put up empty stats.

Klay with LeBron would be lethal given LeBron's elite court vision and his love for shooters.

[Roundball_Rock]

Easy, Klay gets most of his points moving off the ball, catch and shoot. Love played on bad Minnosota team where he put up empty stats.

Klay with LeBron would be lethal given LeBron's elite court vision and his love for shooters.

Yup. :lol

It is funny he is asking why LeBron has the ball twice as long as KD. The answer is obvious: KD isn't an elite playmaker like LeBron is. LeBron is one of the few people to lead the NBA in both scoring and assists.