View Full Version : Butler is better than Doncic, Lillard, Harden, Giannis, Jokic...
PeroAntic
10-11-2020, 04:46 AM
...if better means 'more valuable for a title run'.
In fact the only players better than him in the league are Curry, Lebron, Durant, AD and Kawhi.
coin24
10-11-2020, 04:49 AM
Interesting how many people would take jimmy over kawhit:confusedshrug:
AussieSteve
10-11-2020, 05:00 AM
...if better means 'more valuable for a title run'.
In fact the only players better than him in the league are Curry, Lebron, Durant, AD and Kawhi.
If your criteria is most valuable for a title run, I'm not sure about AD.
PeroAntic
10-11-2020, 05:06 AM
If your criteria is most valuable for a title run, I'm not sure about AD.
Lebron without AD couldn't make it to the playoffs, with AD straight to the finals. AD so far has been only marginally worse than Lebron for this playoff run.
AussieSteve
10-11-2020, 05:11 AM
Lebron without AD couldn't make it to the playoffs, with AD straight to the finals. AD so far has been only marginally worse than Lebron for this playoff run.
Stats wise, sure. But your criteria is about creating wins
PeroAntic
10-11-2020, 05:17 AM
Stats wise, sure. But your criteria is about creating wins
Its not just statwise, he does a bit of everything on offense and defense. Together Ingram and Lonzo put up better stats than AD, but with them no playoffs, with him finals. His impact is pretty obvious.
I wouldn't go as far as taking him over Giannis and Harden but he's gone up in my estimation this playoffs, my current top 10 would be
1. LeBron
2. AD
3. Kawhi
4. Giannis
5. KD
6. Curry
7. Harden
8. Butler
9. Doncic
10. Lillard
PeroAntic
10-11-2020, 05:25 AM
Giannis and Harden are onedimensional and proven losers...
ThatCoolKid
10-11-2020, 06:41 AM
Its not just statwise, he does a bit of everything on offense and defense. Together Ingram and Lonzo put up better stats than AD, but with them no playoffs, with him finals. His impact is pretty obvious.
AD was on a LOT of bad teams before he made the playoffs with Rondo. Davis pretty clearly needs to play with a high-level guard/perimeter player to have team success.
Kblaze8855
10-11-2020, 02:55 PM
Giannis and Harden are onedimensional and proven losers...
If that’s the case what was Jimmy 3 weeks ago? A proven winner despite winning less than them? He’s 30. He’s been a star for 6 years on 4 teams.
Whatever he is he’s probably been it for some time.
tpols
10-11-2020, 03:02 PM
And he doesn't have anything close to AD.
Imagine if Miami had Anthony Davis...
sdot_thadon
10-11-2020, 03:02 PM
If that’s the case what was Jimmy 3 weeks ago? A proven winner despite winning less than them? He’s 30. He’s been a star for 6 years on 4 teams.
Whatever he is he’s probably been it for some time.
Pretty much this.
tpols
10-11-2020, 03:03 PM
If that’s the case what was Jimmy 3 weeks ago? A proven winner despite winning less than them? He’s 30. He’s been a star for 6 years on 4 teams.
Whatever he is he’s probably been it for some time.
Harden is skilled but he's a cheat. I wont even get into Giannis.
Butler is the truth. Basketball. His team is just undermanned.
r0drig0lac
10-11-2020, 03:06 PM
Giannis, Harden and Doncic are onedimensional and proven losers...fixed
DMAVS41
10-11-2020, 03:08 PM
Harden is skilled but he's a cheat. I wont even get into Giannis.
Butler is the truth. Basketball. His team is just undermanned.
What Butler is doing, especially in the Finals, has been fantastic...
However, coming into the Finals...he was averaging 21/6/5 and only taking like 13 shots a game. This Heat team is better than you and most are giving them credit for.
Heat in 7.
tpols
10-11-2020, 03:16 PM
What Butler is doing, especially in the Finals, has been fantastic...
However, coming into the Finals...he was averaging 21/6/5 and only taking like 13 shots a game. This Heat team is better than you and most are giving them credit for.
Heat in 7.
Jimmy Butler's 2nd option is Tyler Herro in this series. He's averaging 16 PPG.
I want the underdog to win as much as the next guy, but logic exists. LBJ and AD are both averaging 25+ PPG.
It's going to be a blood bath tonight.
DMAVS41
10-11-2020, 03:19 PM
Maybe, Lakers could easily win. Heat have played them very well since game 1 though.
Now you know how all the non-Lakers fans felt watching Kobe/Shaq play in the Finals during the 3 peat and how normal people felt watching Durant on the Warriors (obviously crazy Lebron haters loved it)...
Kblaze8855
10-11-2020, 03:22 PM
Harden is skilled but he's a cheat. I wont even get into Giannis.
Butler is the truth. Basketball. His team is just undermanned.
He is the truth. He was the truth on the Bulls. He didn’t learn the game at 30. This is little but another example of fans having no idea what they are seeing and following the trends they are slapped in the face with. When the Heat add Giannis or Beal or whoever they get with the 30 million the next couple years he’s likely to dip back into the 18-20 a game range not shooting much and people will act like he peaked in the finals as if attacking more out of necessity is the same thing as being better.
Ive put him on about the same level as Harden since people were laughing at me for it years ago:
His antics would annoy me much more than the difference between him and Jimmy Butler would improve the Bulls. If I had the opportunity to build a team from scratch and harden were handed to me I wouldn't refuse obviously. But if I already had Jimmy Butler or Klay Thompson and swapping them for Harden would cost me anything at all I would say no and focus my efforts elsewhere.
My distaste for his style doesn't go to the point where I would make my team forego a player of his caliber just to not have him. But I wouldn't take him if I had a half reasonable alternative and could apply whatever savings there might be to another area of the team.
If I have to trade Jimmy Butler and a late first or two second round picks for James Harden you can go **** yourself. Id bring an even swap to the coach and see what he thought about it. I wouldn't even entertain the idea of the exchange if I have to add anything in addition to it.
I wouldn't trade Jimmy Butler and my best pair of shoes for James Harden.
Straight up swap or I'm hanging up the phone. In fact I would buy an old school rotary phone before the call just so I could hang it up more emphatically if you try to get anything extra.
I don't need that guy if there's a viable alternative.
Kblaze8855
10-11-2020, 03:29 PM
All that said the main issue is probably just people not accepting how similar the players are on the different supposed “tiers”. Guys like Dame and Jimmy who will never get true elite status from most(not long term at least) can play with anyone under the right circumstances. The top 10 all time isn’t far off the top 30 or so to me for the same reason. We make the differences out to be greater than they are.
tpols
10-11-2020, 03:32 PM
Maybe, Lakers could easily win. Heat have played them very well since game 1 though.
Now you know how all the non-Lakers fans felt watching Kobe/Shaq play in the Finals during the 3 peat and how normal people felt watching Durant on the Warriors (obviously crazy Lebron haters loved it)...
That's a great point.
Everybody knew the Kobe Shaq Lakers were unfair. Everybody knew the Dubs Dynasty was unfair. (Stone Cold what?)
Nobody is giving this Laker team the same acclaim. Because everybody knows the Clippers would've whooped their ass.
And since they flopped, they have a free ride.
Kblaze8855
10-11-2020, 03:41 PM
Shaq/Kobe were maybe even more unfair because of the lack of super teams. Glenn Robinson, Michael Finley, Antoine Walker, and Peja were the best second options in the nba. At least Lebron had Kyrie and Love for a while...not that either of them are KD/Steph but it’s a contest. Nobody had a number 2 to compare to Kobe. The Kings and Blazers had the depth at least but in the end....
Im so nba'd out
10-11-2020, 03:47 PM
Luka fans avoiding this thread like the bubonic plague :oldlol:.Not only the better defender but a better scorer too.Yikes!The bubble has exposed a lot of ppl
Ghost1
10-11-2020, 03:52 PM
Luka fans avoiding this thread like the bubonic plague :oldlol:.Not only the better defender but a better scorer too.Yikes!The bubble has exposed a lot of ppl
jimbo would be the perfect #2 to fresh prince luka
DMAVS41
10-11-2020, 04:03 PM
All that said the main issue is probably just people not accepting how similar the players are on the different supposed “tiers”. Guys like Dame and Jimmy who will never get true elite status from most(not long term at least) can play with anyone under the right circumstances. The top 10 all time isn’t far off the top 30 or so to me for the same reason. We make the differences out to be greater than they are.
This.
Been saying that a long time, the margins are slim for a lot of these guys.
tpols
10-11-2020, 04:04 PM
Shaq/Kobe were maybe even more unfair because of the lack of super teams. Glenn Robinson, Michael Finley, Antoine Walker, and Peja were the best second options in the nba. At least Lebron had Kyrie and Love for a while...not that either of them are KD/Steph but it’s a contest. Nobody had a number 2 to compare to Kobe. The Kings and Blazers had the depth at least but in the end....
And we've seen time and time again depth rarely beats talent. Everybody knows how the league rigged the kings lakers series. Look at the FT disparity.
People went to jail over this shit.... I've got big money on this game, and I'm about to bump my thread that predicted this.
PeroAntic
10-11-2020, 04:08 PM
If that’s the case what was Jimmy 3 weeks ago? A proven winner despite winning less than them? He’s 30. He’s been a star for 6 years on 4 teams.
Whatever he is he’s probably been it for some time.
Butler & Rose were close to eliminating Lebron in 2015.
A hobbling post surgery Butler took bums like KAT and Wiggins to the playoffs.
He was the best Sixer last year in the playoffs and was carrying an injured Embiid, useless Simmons and Harris to game 7.
The signs were always there. People just prefer to look at stats.
Butler is not a franchise player. He's a complimentary player. Heat are having a nice run but lets not pretend there aren't other guys ballin. Stop acting like its Jimmy Butler and a bunch of outkasts. Bam Adebayo had a monster season avg 16-10-5. Hes avg 17-10-4 in the playoffs. Dragic is a consistent scorer. 6 Heat players are in double digit scoring. They have perimeter shooters in Herro, Robinson, Crowder. Lets not be prisoners of the moment with Jimmy Butler.
kabacho
10-11-2020, 04:21 PM
I remember when Butler was anything but locker room cancer that preferred to be the no. 1 on the team instead of winning.
Bout 5 months ago.
Lakers are just top heavy with Bron/AD. After them? Give me a break. Stop it.
I remember when Butler was anything but locker room cancer that preferred to be the no. 1 on the team instead of winning.
Bout 5 months ago.
Remember what? Idiots online with no sound evidence that was the case? You should probably stop listening to idiots.
Kblaze8855
10-11-2020, 04:27 PM
Butler is not a franchise player. He's a complimentary player. Heat are having a nice run but lets not pretend there aren't other guys ballin. Stop acting like its Jimmy Butler and a bunch of outkasts. Bam Adebayo had a monster season avg 16-10-5. Hes avg 17-10-4 in the playoffs. Dragic is a consistent scorer. 6 Heat players are in double digit scoring. They have perimeter shooters in Herro, Robinson, Crowder. Lets not be prisoners of the moment with Jimmy Butler.
When there are 30 franchises Jimmy Butler is a franchise player. He wouldn’t be for every team but he is for the Heat. That said...they are still gonna shoot for someone else to add. But that doesn’t say much. Warriors still wanted to add KD but that says nothing about Steph.
tpols
10-11-2020, 04:36 PM
Lakers are just top heavy with Bron/AD. After them? Give me a break. Stop it.
You would never put your money where your mouth is.
The Heats second option is a 16 PPG 20 year old rookie... That never wins.
PeroAntic
10-11-2020, 04:36 PM
Whatever he is he’s probably been it for some time.
Thats the whole point. People are realizing this only now. for the record I also said hes better than Harden and people were laughing.
Its beautiful to see how he is opening people's eyes that stats (whichever way you employ them) are not the be all end all
PeroAntic
10-11-2020, 04:38 PM
They have perimeter shooters in Herro, Robinson, Crowder.
Green, KCP, Kuzma, Morris >
When there are 30 franchises Jimmy Butler is a franchise player. He wouldn’t be for every team but he is for the Heat. That said...they are still gonna shoot for someone else to add. But that doesn’t say much. Warriors still wanted to add KD but that says nothing about Steph.
That is a flawed argument. What does 30 franchises mean? There are 30 franchise players? That's not true either. Franchise player does not mean best player on the team. It's like the days of the Eagles before T.Owens arrived. We had a lot of #1 WR by default. Guys that on the depth chart were the #1 but they were not a #1 WR. You don't trade franchise players not once but twice? In their prime? You really have to be in serious cahoots with a coach who has GM power to get placed in a trade. AI comes to mind. But his track record of bumping heads with Larry Brown is well documented. That's more of an exception to the rule. Only Larry Brown could have pulled such an attempt. Few coaches of his caliber could that is. Oh and after being traded twice do not resign the guy who is a free agent? It wasn't a case of hey we tried to keep Jimmy and he walked. They flat out didn't have him in future plans. No franchise has built a team around Butler nor made him a focal point. How many top 10 MVP finishes has Butler been apart of? And no I'm not implying you must have top 10 MVP finishes to be considered a franchise player. But when you are lacking the things like having a franchise build around you? Then I look at other things to try and help your cause for being considered a franchise player. I see none.
Leonard is a franchise player. Paul George is not. He once was. But now hes a 3 and D complimentary player to a franchise player. Dame Lillard is a franchise player. CJ is not. That's Jimmy Butler. The Heat in the offseason are not going to build around Jimmy Butler. They are going to add or try to add another star quality talent. That's it. Jimmy can easily be traded before his contract ends in Miami.
Green, KCP, Kuzma, Morris >
You're clueless. I could post the stats but not even worth it. Duncan Robinson alone shits on them. They do not shoot better than the Heat crew
You would never put your money where your mouth is.
The Heats second option is a 16 PPG 20 year old rookie... That never wins.
Because their 2nd leading score Dragic is INJURED. Injuries happen. Yet here we are its a 3-2 series instead of a clean sweep because? Let me know why the undermanned, omg they dont have anyone close to AD Heat team has won 2 games. I had the Lakers winning this series before it began and still have them winning. But saying they are undermanned is nonsense. Danny Green was wide the f*ck open for 3. He barely hit rim. Antonio Davis has been MIA in the 4th quarter when it comes to scoring (also shooting 17%). Butler, Herro, Nunn have outscored AD in the 4th these finals. Stop it. You guys keep reading names on the paper regardless of the facts.
tpols
10-11-2020, 05:09 PM
Because their 2nd leading score Dragic is INJURED. Injuries happen. Yet here we are its a 3-2 series instead of a clean sweep because? Let me know why the undermanned, omg they dont have anyone close to AD Heat team has won 2 games. I had the Lakers winning this series before it began and still have them winning. But saying they are undermanned is nonsense. Danny Green was wide the f*ck open for 3. He barely hit rim. Antonio Davis has been MIA in the 4th quarter when it comes to scoring (also shooting 17%). Butler, Herro, Nunn have outscored AD in the 4th these finals. Stop it. You guys keep reading names on the paper regardless of the facts.
This thread was made today.
Dragic has been injured for a couple days. But even still... comparing him to AD is asinine.
*hands over jackass trophy*
Take it.
Kblaze8855
10-11-2020, 05:12 PM
You have to have one of the worst groups of wr in the league for Todd Pinkston to be your #1. Jimmy is exactly the kinda player who is usually a teams best player. He’s a traditional best player far as his usual level of play. In the super team era that’s thrown off with 3-4 guys on a team at times but over our lives Jimmy is exactly what you expect a normal franchise player to be. He isn’t an average or even good player forced into his role by having bad teammates. As you said the Heat are a good team....that he is leading. You act like he’s a Jeff Malone “Yea if you wanna win 32 games he can be the man” type who should be a #3.
Hes a normal #1 or an exceptional #2 much like Paul George who you mentioned. And yes Paul George is most teams franchise player too. Just not when paired with all time greats.
Paul is essentially the same guy he’s been for years just after a rough run where we will act like he was never shit until the season starts back.
Paul is likely gonna be a 10ish time all star and borderline hall of famer. He isn’t Michael Dickerson all of a sudden because sports fans have short memories.
tpols
10-11-2020, 05:15 PM
Gotta post it.
GOAT moment. The People's Champ. Freddie Mitchell. 4th and 26.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2usY3hJk_tc
This thread was made today.
Dragic has been injured for a couple days. But even still... comparing him to AD is asinine.
*hands over jackass trophy*
Take it.
You don't make any sense whatsoever. You couldn't address shit I said. So sit there and hold that L you prisoner of the moment.
You have to have one of the worst groups of wr in the league for Todd Pinkston to be your #1. Jimmy is exactly the kinda player who is usually a teams best player. He’s a traditional best player far as his usual level of play. In the super team era that’s thrown off with 3-4 guys on a team at times but over our lives Jimmy is exactly what you expect a normal franchise player to be. He isn’t an average or even good player forced into his role by having bad teammates. As you said the Heat are a good team....that he is leading. You act like he’s a Jeff Malone “Yea if you wanna win 32 games he can be the man” type who should be a #3.
Hes a normal #1 or an exceptional #2 much like Paul George who you mentioned. And yes Paul George is most teams franchise player too. Just not when paired with all time greats.
Paul is essentially the same guy he’s been for years just after a rough run where we will act like he was never shit until the season starts back.
Paul is likely gonna be a 10ish time all star and borderline hall of famer. He isn’t Michael Dickerson all of a sudden because sports fans have short memories.
I don't act like he is jeff malone. I act like hes not a franchise player which doesn't mean "best player on the team". What is hard to comprehend? Imagine being a franchise player on 4 different teams in your prime. You clearly have a participation trophy award like definition for franchise player. I don't. You're the type to allow a hall of really good player into the HOF. Imagine a photo with barry sanders, jim brown, eric dickerson, emmitt smith and...frank gore. You see nothing wrong with it. I do. Therein is the difference. I see one of those kids doing their own thing and now its time...to say their name. It's time to say their name. I was great at that game you weren't.
Before Butler got there. Dragic was the Heats best player. Therefore their franchise player....said no one ever. Flawed logic my guy.
How you compare George to Michael Dickerson is beyond me. Kblaze really ran out of valid points to make? Say it aint so. Shame. Shame. Shame. Shame.
Kblaze8855
10-11-2020, 05:30 PM
Frank Gore being the 3rd all time leading rusher it’s safe to say he will go to the hall of fame. That isn’t my standard...that’s the standard.
Maybe I wouldn’t have some of the people in the basketball hall who are either but that doesn’t mean I get to set the standard.
Frank Gore being the 3rd all time leading rusher it’s safe to say he will go to the hall of fame. That isn’t my standard...that’s the standard.
Maybe I wouldn’t have some of the people in the basketball hall who are either but that doesn’t mean I get to set the standard.
No you're just agreeing to a stupid standard that is set. He's going to make it because he played football really long, never was elite, near elite. Just racked up yards. Never said he wouldn't make it. I implied he will but you will agree to it with no problem. Hence the HOF table I explained. Just because guys are selected to the Hall of Fame doesn't mean they actually were. Just because you are the best player on the team you dont get to carry the "I'm a franchise player" label around with you.
SATAN
10-11-2020, 05:40 PM
Green, KCP, Kuzma, Morris >
:roll:
Kblaze8855
10-11-2020, 06:22 PM
Well if we are going with people not being what they are(in the hall of fame for one) because you say they shouldn’t be there’s no reason to continue. If you make reality you get to be right now don’t you? Some real Thanos shit.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WarpedDesertedChicken-size_restricted.gif
Let me get that reality stone when you finished. Derrick Rose coming out hard in 2021.
Well if we are going with people not being what they are(in the hall of fame for one) because you say they shouldn’t be there’s no reason to continue. If you make reality you get to be right now don’t you? Some real Thanos shit.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WarpedDesertedChicken-size_restricted.gif
Let me get that reality stone when you finished. Derrick Rose coming out hard in 2021.
You just said there are players in the basketball hall of fame that you wouldn't have in there. But because they were voted in, it is what it is. I'm lost at how you are confused over a simple point being made?
Will Frank Gore make the HOF? Yes
Do you feel Frank Gore is worthy of such an honor? No
Where is the confusion? Because you will bend over and spread them, I mean you will concede to the voters putting him in? Solid. All adding Frank Gore does is open the door wider for more average players to get into the HOF. Absolutely no way anyone who watched Frank Gore career can say without chuckling he had a Hall of Fame career. Otherwise you need your eyes checked or need to see footage of what having a Hall of Fame career looked like.
Again he will be sitting at a table with barry sanders, emmitt smith,eric dickerson. And in your eyes its nothing odd about it. In my eyes, Frank doesn't belong at that table.
Wally450
10-11-2020, 06:52 PM
Lebron without AD couldn't make it to the playoffs, with AD straight to the finals. AD so far has been only marginally worse than Lebron for this playoff run.
Now do it the other way.
Kblaze8855
10-11-2020, 07:28 PM
I’m not exactly team Frank Gore. That he wouldn’t get my vote in a hall of fame of my choice just doesn’t matter though. A lot of basketball players wouldn’t make it who did. But obviously my feelings and reality aren’t the same thing. Satch Sanders doesn’t give a **** what I think about what table he’s sitting at.
PeroAntic
10-11-2020, 07:29 PM
Now do it the other way.
What other way? we know Lebron is a great player. the guy said AD is all about stats, which clearly hes not.
People need to see beyond the stats. This is what Jimmy making them right now. red pill Jimmy. hes the one.
DMAVS41
10-11-2020, 07:37 PM
Best player on the team does, of course, not automatically mean they are the level of a franchise player.
However, I wouldn't be so quick to say Butler isn't one. He's on the fringe if he isn't, so I don't think there is much to argue about either way.
And while I generally agree that players don't transform themselves, maybe Butler has gotten a little better over the last couple years to vault himself into the franchise player level...he's certainly played like one for the last 2 years.
999Guy
10-11-2020, 09:07 PM
Mm. So that’s how this place got after game 5.
Cute little overreactions. Take a picture of this thread. Last time anyone will ever say some shit like this again. Jimmy’s on an athletic decline. His hops and brakes diminishing yearly after all the injuries. He really peaked his last year in Chicago. Best blend of his early motor and athleticism and the later skill and craftiness.
He used to be a real lock down guy. Now he’s like LeBron in that he relies on help D and good hands and awareness. But he isn’t LeBron athletically. I really like Jimmy. Glad people at least for a moment recognized what he’s been for a while now. Back to irrelevance like Nikola and Lillard.
SATAN
10-11-2020, 09:20 PM
:oldlol: :facepalm
Roundball_Rock
10-11-2020, 09:40 PM
Overreaction. Miami would trade Butler for each of those players.
I’m not exactly team Frank Gore. That he wouldn’t get my vote in a hall of fame of my choice just doesn’t matter though. A lot of basketball players wouldn’t make it who did. But obviously my feelings and reality aren’t the same thing. Satch Sanders doesn’t give a **** what I think about what table he’s sitting at.
Man you're hilarious. Because you know damn well this type of logic is a contradiction to what you've said in the past. I'll be damned if you never said someone wasn't deserving of an award, accolade that recieved it. And argued why. Now you're submissive with whatever the voters vote. And what you think doesn't matter because it isn't changing the results/history books. Stop. Post with you long enough to know thats a load of crap.
Anyway, is the lounge still active or nah?
Best player on the team does, of course, not automatically mean they are the level of a franchise player.
However, I wouldn't be so quick to say Butler isn't one. He's on the fringe if he isn't, so I don't think there is much to argue about either way.
And while I generally agree that players don't transform themselves, maybe Butler has gotten a little better over the last couple years to vault himself into the franchise player level...he's certainly played like one for the last 2 years.
Butler played like a franchise player with the sixers? Interesting. Looked like that was Embiid.
PeroAntic
10-15-2020, 05:16 PM
Overreaction. Miami would trade Butler for each of those players.
How stupid do you need to be to underrate Butler even after this run?
I guess some people are so hopelessly dependent on stat nerdism that nothing will ever open their eyes.
Kblaze8855
10-15-2020, 05:22 PM
Man you're hilarious. Because you know damn well this type of logic is a contradiction to what you've said in the past. I'll be damned if you never said someone wasn't deserving of an award, accolade that recieved it. And argued why. Now you're submissive with whatever the voters vote. And what you think doesn't matter because it isn't changing the results/history books. Stop. Post with you long enough to know thats a load of crap.
Anyway, is the lounge still active or nah?
I have opinions they just don’t matter more than reality. Maybe I never give Shaun Alexander an mvp but his kids get to say “My dad won mvp”. Marcus Camby wouldn’t get a DPOY over Duncan to me but he damn sure has it. Things just are as they are. You or me accepting the results mean shit.
And the lounge is dead even though now and then when I check someone will have been online. I was considering a topic there to see what the drop ins were gonna buy next system wise.
Im actually leaning ps5.
DMAVS41
10-15-2020, 06:36 PM
Butler played like a franchise player with the sixers? Interesting. Looked like that was Embiid.
Yea...I think we'd all agree Joel is that level of player though...right?
Teams can have two players at the level we are talking about...and I certainly think Butler played like one in the Raptors series.
Mr. Woke
10-15-2020, 07:04 PM
Butler is not a top ten player in the league.
He only made the All-NBA Third Team lol.
I have opinions they just don’t matter more than reality. Maybe I never give Shaun Alexander an mvp but his kids get to say “My dad won mvp”. Marcus Camby wouldn’t get a DPOY over Duncan to me but he damn sure has it. Things just are as they are. You or me accepting the results mean shit.
And the lounge is dead even though now and then when I check someone will have been online. I was considering a topic there to see what the drop ins were gonna buy next system wise.
Im actually leaning ps5.
Xbox series x is clearly the superior console! You’re trippin. Damn that sucks at the lounge. I wanted to pop in and see how everyone is doing.
Nike D'Antoni
05-29-2021, 03:33 PM
I think last year's Heat success was more down to Heat culture, and team than Jimmy Butler.
PeroAntic
05-29-2021, 04:02 PM
I think last year's Heat success was more down to Heat culture, and team than Jimmy Butler.
Did they lose the culture this year?
Looked to me like Butler quit after game 1. We will find out what happened soon probably, but he was not himself, on the court and outside of it with his statements.
Went defeated in the finals last year, only to be swept in the first round this year by a team they faced otw to that finals.
And1AllDay
05-29-2021, 10:32 PM
...if better means 'more valuable for a title run'.
In fact the only players better than him in the league are Curry, Lebron, Durant, AD and Kawhi.
:oldlol:
told you that you are the dumbest poster and never had a good take since mar 2016
see i was right :oldlol:
ELITEpower23
05-29-2021, 10:35 PM
Giannis and Harden are onedimensional and proven losers...
And then Butler gets swept by a one dimensional, proven loser. Come on man.
PeroAntic
05-29-2021, 10:36 PM
:oldlol:
told you that you are the dumbest poster and never had a good take since mar 2016
see i was right :oldlol:
So youre gonna go find out all the posts I ever made about Butler? Not only youre mind numbingly stupid, but youre also a pathetic loser.
Not to mention that the post you quoted is still valid. Last year's Butler=Miami in the finals. This years Butler=Miami swept in the first round. Shows how much they depend on him performing.
Unless of course, youre saying that Lebron lost to a bum last year. Pick your poison, dumbass.
PeroAntic
05-29-2021, 10:39 PM
And then Butler gets swept by a one dimensional, proven loser. Come on man.
Something happened these weeks in Miami. Butler pulled a Kobe vs Suns 2006. My theory is he had a bad shooting night in Game 1, someone (Spoelstra maybe) busted his balls about it, and he decided to show the team they can't do anything without him. Like he did at that training in Minnesota.
And1AllDay
05-29-2021, 10:40 PM
So youre gonna go find out all the posts I ever made about Butler? Not only youre mind numbingly stupid, but youre also a pathetic loser.
Not to mention that the post you quoted is still valid. Last year's Butler=Miami in the finals. This years Butler=Miami swept in the first round. Shows how much they depend on him performing.
Unless of course, youre saying that Lebron lost to a bum last year. Pick your poison, dumbass.
i didnt go digging it surfaced up becos its a shit take and nike dantonie busted your chops :oldlol:
and bran didnt lose last year so not sure what your saying :oldlol: you not making sense bruh your fuming.
get a grip low iq fakkit :oldlol: knicks finna be down 3-1 soon too
Something happened these weeks in Miami. Butler pulled a Kobe vs Suns 2006. My theory is he had a bad shooting night in Game 1, someone (Spoelstra maybe) busted his balls about it, and he decided to show the team they can't do anything without him. Like he did at that training in Minnesota.
**** him if he did that. That's not what a leader does.
LoneyROY7
05-29-2021, 10:57 PM
OP got the same IQ as his idol with none of the athletic gifts. :(
PeroAntic
05-29-2021, 10:58 PM
i didnt go digging it surfaced up becos its a shit take and nike dantonie busted your chops :oldlol:
and bran didnt lose last year so not sure what your saying :oldlol: you not making sense bruh your fuming.
get a grip low iq fakkit :oldlol: knicks finna be down 3-1 soon too
Yeah won the series but lost two games, to a player who apparently sucks balls, while all the other key players for the Heat were out.
PeroAntic
05-29-2021, 11:00 PM
**** him if he did that. That's not what a leader does.
Worked for Kobe, he forced the FO to bring him decent support cast or lose him and he got a couple of rings. Maybe Jimmy is hedging for that too.
Worked for Kobe, he forced the FO to bring him decent support cast or lose him and he got a couple of rings. Maybe Jimmy is hedging for that too.
Jimmy isn't Kobe and Kobe had much less help.
imdaman99
05-30-2021, 12:01 AM
Post finals loss hangover. Lots of teams have them. Except maybe a Lebron led team or the Spurs.
Smoke117
05-30-2021, 03:10 PM
Of course OP said something asinine like this.
HoopsNY
05-30-2021, 06:33 PM
Interesting. I had no idea you made this thread until now lol. This is where the overrating comes from.
And1AllDay
05-30-2021, 06:37 PM
Of course OP said something asinine like this.
:oldlol::roll::roll:
PeroAntic
05-30-2021, 08:25 PM
Interesting. I had no idea you made this thread until now lol. This is where the overrating comes from.
I had the same opinion on Butler since his last two seasons as a Bull. I always knew he can fill up the boxscore if he wants, but instead he does what he needs to do to win. Which means defence and getting his teammates involved. Last year he finally showed everybody how good he can be if he plays with a superstar approach, so obviously I felt vindicated.
In the end, very few people overrate Jimmy because of the 2020 finals. There are those like me who had the same opinion on him over the years, and those who felt the need to come after the finals and lecture everybody about how it was a fluke performance and hes actually not that good. He is that good, he is one of the best players in the world. Just depends on what you mean by good. If it means valuable to his team for a run to the finals, he is one of the best out there.
As I said this year effectively proves the point of this thread. No other team can dip that low when their best player performs poorly, and no other team can exceed their potential that much when their best player performs well.
PeroAntic
05-28-2022, 08:20 AM
Took people years to realize how good Butler actually is. Luckily some of us are just ahead of the curve.
Full Court
05-28-2022, 08:25 AM
If your criteria is most valuable for a title run, I'm not sure about AD.
Lakers can't even make the playoffs without him. :lol
this retardation wasn't worth bumping
ImKobe
05-28-2022, 09:13 AM
Took people years to realize how good Butler actually is. Luckily some of us are just ahead of the curve.
Putting him over Luka, Giannis and Jokic is just insane lmao.
He's proven he's worthy of being in the top 5 convo though. His RS production isn't superstar-level and he misses 15-20 games every season so that's where it gets tough when we're comparing him to the best in the league, but he's proving it in the POs.
PeroAntic
05-28-2022, 09:28 AM
Putting him over Luka, Giannis and Jokic is just insane lmao.
He's proven he's worthy of being in the top 5 convo though. His RS production isn't superstar-level and he misses 15-20 games every season so that's where it gets tough when we're comparing him to the best in the league, but he's proving it in the POs.
Hes just as good when it comes to helping the team win. He just does it in a different way. And people still kept underrating him for years while he has been as complete as a wing player can get.
PeroAntic
04-25-2023, 05:09 AM
And the list continues...:pimp:
Manny98
04-25-2023, 05:19 AM
OP was ahead of the curve :applause:
John8204
04-25-2023, 05:34 AM
Jimmy Butler is becoming this generations Larry Bird the numbers might not support him but I think most fans/teams would take him over a Durant, Leonard, Doncic, etc.
Lebron without AD couldn't make it to the playoffs, with AD straight to the finals. AD so far has been only marginally worse than Lebron for this playoff run.
Curry, Bron, Kawhi, Durant all led their teams already to a chip and won FMVP. But AD?
AD had a 5-9 playoff record before joining Lebron lol.
Lakers can't even make the playoffs without him. :lol
Wtf are you talking about?AD missed 36 out of the 72 rs games 2020 and the Lakers made the playoffs lol.
Positive record without AD and negative record without Lebron!
Get your facts straight, no Bron no playoffs!
ArbitraryWater
04-25-2023, 08:03 AM
Butler is amazing but he is not better than any of these except lillard.
The workoad the others carry in the regular season is unlike Butlers.
Now once the payoffs start, you may take him over Harden or Giannis. I agree.
Donic and Jokic are great playoff performers though, so no.
PeroAntic
04-25-2023, 08:39 AM
Butler is amazing but he is not better than any of these except lillard.
The workoad the others carry in the regular season is unlike Butlers.
Now once the payoffs start, you may take him over Harden or Giannis. I agree.
Donic and Jokic are great playoff performers though, so no.
By workload you mean dedication to get your ppg. If Jimmy took the same amount of shots on a nightly basis like the others on the list, instead of playing defense and playing within the system to keep his teammates engaged, he would have scored just as many points. But its the same workload, and hes not about scoring as much as possible, but as much as the team needs in order to win.
I don't make the distinction between RS and playoff, just pure overall ability. Jimmy's mental game (IQ and concentration) separates him from the rest.
ArbitraryWater
04-25-2023, 08:46 AM
By workload you mean dedication to get your ppg. If Jimmy took the same amount of shots on a nightly basis like the others on the list, instead of playing defense and playing within the system to keep his teammates engaged, he would have scored just as many points. But its the same workload, and hes not about scoring as much as possible, but as much as the team needs in order to win.
I don't make the distinction between RS and playoff, just pure overall ability. Jimmy's mental game (IQ and concentration) separates him from the rest.
I dont make a distinction either, I simply account for both. Buter is wildly behind in RS output and workload, that at least in the case of Doncic and Jokic, whatever minor playoff advantage there may be, doesnt come close to making up for it.
Phoenix
04-25-2023, 04:02 PM
Jimmy Butler is becoming this generations Larry Bird the numbers might not support him but I think most fans/teams would take him over a Durant, Leonard, Doncic, etc.
Peak Bird winning 3 straight MVPs from 84-86 and thru 88 was 27/10/7. I'd say the numbers supported him fine.
dankok8
04-25-2023, 05:47 PM
All credit to Butler for what he did last night and totally love him as a player but he doesn't belong in the same conversation as anyone on that list except Lillard. His two highest finishes in MVP voting are 10th and 11th and he never made 1st or 2nd Team All-NBA.
His playoffs numbers are also overblown...
2020: 22/7/6 on +5 rTS
2021: injured
2022: 27/7/5 on +3 rTS
Let's wait for this playoff run to finish before we overrate him! ArbitraryWater called him a better playoff performer than Giannis who put up 30/13/5 on +3 rTS on route to a championship while playing better defense. Let's pump the brakes here.
Jasper
04-26-2023, 12:29 AM
...if better means 'more valuable for a title run'.
In fact the only players better than him in the league are Curry, Lebron, Durant, AD and Kawhi.
oh my god I can't stop laughing my ass off on this thread as well as this post.
You do realize Butler has never won a fvck'n thing. (Besides jumping ship on at least 3 teams)
BarberSchool
04-26-2023, 01:32 AM
For 2-3 games every year, Jimmy Butler is the best two way player on the planet.
PeroAntic
04-26-2023, 06:31 AM
Each time Jimmy proves for the umpteenth time that hes a bonafide ATG and one of the best basketball players in the worldm, you have people popping up after a few days once the dust settles to claim that "hes actually not that good" because stats and secondary evaluations (he never won MVP, had this many all teams etc). Relying on heuristics like this really exposes the ignorance.
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