Jazz-Nuggets game 7 is the kind of playoff defense Jordan had to face.

[Marchesk]

Now you younguns get a taste of what actual physical defense looks like.

[1987_Lakers]

Defense was just as bad in the 80's as it is today, funny how people here ignore that.

[Marchesk]

Defense was just as bad in the 80's as it is today, funny how people here ignore that.

Was kind of thinking of Bucks, Celtics, Pistons, Knicks, Heat, Sonics, Pacers, Jazz defense late 80s to late 90s.

[LoneyROY7]

https://media.tenor.com/images/6006221645cd35feca85d058d0345875/tenor.gif

[NBAGOAT]

these two teams are bad defensively even relative to era lol. dudes are tired and shook right now

[Vino24]

90’s defense looked good because car mechanics made the league and had no offensive game

[warriorfan]

I don’t usually bet on over/under but In game 7’s I’m going to start going for the under. The game always gets tight and physical. They usually turn into grind out games.

[Whoah10115]

Defense was just as bad in the 80's as it is today, funny how people here ignore that.

Wow.

Not remotely true.

Pace and defense are not exclusive. Now it's a jumpshooting contest. And looks like endless isos and switching.

[Vino24]

Imagine fixing up a Honda and then later that day facing MJ in the playoffs

[FireDavidKahn]

Jokic just put up 30/14/4 against the type of defenses MJ faced.

Jokic > Jordan

[Xiao Yao You]

these two teams are bad defensively even relative to era lol. dudes are tired and shook right now

Jazz were a top 10 defense

[NBAGOAT]

Jazz were a top 10 defense

no they were 13th this year and not good after the all star break

[NBAGOAT]

Wow.

Not remotely true.

Pace and defense are not exclusive. Now it's a jumpshooting contest. And looks like endless isos and switching.

how is defense bad if the offense is settling for jumpshots? and what's inherently bad about switching?

[Spurs m8]

Jokic just put up 30/14/4 against the type of defenses MJ faced.

Jokic > Jordan

Can you just go one day without being a complete and utter fvckwit?

[1987_Lakers]

Wow.

Not remotely true.

Pace and defense are not exclusive. Now it's a jumpshooting contest. And looks like endless isos and switching.

Teams averaged 110 ppg and shot 49% from the floor in the mid 80's. Coaching, defensive strategies are much better today, the rules today just allow offensive players to flourish.

The fact that teams scored so much points back then on high efficiency despite being labeled a "physical era with handchecking" is hilarious.

And dont even get me started on ISO ball, the NBA from the mid 90's - mid 00's was basically an ISO league. Learn your history.

[Marchesk]

90’s defense looked good because car mechanics made the league and had no offensive game

I honestly couldn't tell the difference this game. What were the three point shooting percentages?

[imdaman99]

I loved it. Also loved the end of the all star game. Even though I don't remember what happened or who won, I was happy because there was defensive intensity.

[Marchesk]

I loved it. Also loved the end of the all star game. Even though I don't remember what happened or who won, I was happy because there was defensive intensity.

The end of the all-star game was some epic defense. This game was good defense combined with poor shooting and some fatigue. But that all-star game was the best players in the game giving full effort on defense. It was amazing to watch!

[NuggetsFan]

And Jokic still dropped 30/14/4 lol

But seriously alot of the insane shots both teams were hitting just stopped. Like Mitchell and Murray .. aren't MJ. They aren't going to keep hitting those shots consistently.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The regular-season still had duds, but I get what you mean.

I recently watched a rs game from 98 between Indiana/Chicago and that shit felt like a playoff game :oldlol: Chicago was jockeying for the #1 seed then and Indiana was there right behind them. The "rivalry" was already set before meeting up in the conference finals. You will hear clowns talk about nostalgia but that stuff was legit.

[FromDowntown]

Imagine fixing up a Honda and then later that day facing MJ in the playoffs

:lol

https://images.dailykos.com/images/201695/large/Thank-a-Mailman-Today.jpg?1454015152

Thank your local mailman for defending Jordan in the 90s

[insight]

Defense was just as bad in the 80's as it is today, funny how people here ignore that.

The modern game is wide open, running up and down the court more so than the slowed down game of the 80s 90s etc. Vince Carter sums up the differences pretty well in an interview which his says there are very few players from this era who could play in previous era due to physicality and style of play.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk4xFL011XE

[FKAri]

Defense was just as bad in the 80's as it is today, funny how people here ignore that.

It was dumber but more physical.

[Whoah10115]

how is defense bad if the offense is settling for jumpshots? and what's inherently bad about switching?

What settling? They're all open jumpshots and everybody's improving their shot because team defense allows 3s and team offenses want only 3s.

Switching nowadays is lazy. Ballhandlers want mismatches and defenses don't even fight to avoid it. May as well say "Excuse me, sir".

[NBAGOAT]

What settling? They're all open jumpshots and everybody's improving their shot because team defense allows 3s and team offenses want only 3s.

Switching nowadays is lazy. Ballhandlers want mismatch and defenses don't even fight to avoid it. May as well say "Excuse me, sir".

imo teams that give up 3s are really good at defending the rim then. switching is lazy but honestly the easiest and sometimes best way to defend the pnr if you dont have an obvious weak defender. go over the screen with your big helping leaves an open 3 for the opposing big. drop coverage lets the guard take a jumpshot in rhythm. switches force isolation offense which is usually good for your defense

[Whoah10115]

Teams averaged 110 ppg and shot 49% from the floor in the mid 80's. Coaching, defensive strategies are much better today, the rules today just allow offensive players to flourish.

The fact that teams scored so much points back then on high efficiency despite being labeled a "physical era with handchecking" is hilarious.

And dont even get me started on ISO ball, the NBA from the mid 90's - mid 00's was basically an ISO league. Learn your history.

I think you should step back a minute. Coaches have been engineering more sophisticated defenses for over 20 years and just as in soccer, it's usually more about having their hands in everything, rather than improving defenses.

Defenses nowadays allow offenses to get the shots they're looking for.

And no, the iso game is worse now. There's less real rotation, more just spreading the floor and watching. The Rockets have won over 200 games the last 4 years doing this. Selective memory or stat recall doesn't change it.

[Whoah10115]

imo teams that give up 3s are really good at defending the rim then. switching is lazy but honestly the easiest and sometimes best way to defend the pnr if you dont have an obvious weak defender. go over the screen with your big helping leaves an open 3 for the opposing big. drop coverage lets the guard take a jumpshot in rhythm. switches force isolation offense which is usually good for your defense

You're right. Golden State were switching everything, but it was Klay, Durant and Green getting the switches. And even if Curry isn't a good defender, he's a smart team defender and Kerr is a damn good coach. There's something more than just allowing the offense what it came for.

[1987_Lakers]

I think you should step back a minute. Coaches have been engineering more sophisticated defenses for over 20 years and just as in soccer, it's usually more about having their hands in everything, rather than improving defenses.

Defenses nowadays allow offenses to get the shots they're looking for.

And no, the iso game is worse now. There's less real rotation, more just spreading the floor and watching. The Rockets have won over 200 games the last 4 years doing this. Selective memory or stat recall doesn't change it.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?352433-Ainge-Byron-Scott-and-Larry-Bird-talking-about-today-s-defenses

Bird, Ainge, Byron Scott, all 80's players who had NBA jobs when they retired said NBA defenses today are better.

Funny how you continue to ignore the high scoring numbers from the 80's btw.

The problem is that you see any evolution to the game as a negative, on the offensive end it is a fact that 3s and layups are the most efficient shots in basketball so teams adjusted to that, defenses are still trying to adjust to that.

If you pay attention throughout history you see that scoring goes up and down as decades pass, in the 80's it was all offense, defenses adjusted and from the mid 90's - mid 00's you saw defenses dominate the league, now you are seeing offenses catch up and at the moment defenses are trying to catch up. Offenses and defenses are continuously evolving.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?352433-Ainge-Byron-Scott-and-Larry-Bird-talking-about-today-s-defenses

Bird, Ainge, Byron Scott, all 80's players who had NBA jobs when they retired said NBA defenses today are better.

Those quotes are from the mid 2000s though. As in, Bird/Ainge/Scott were all talking about defenses being better THEN.

Right now it is a joke.

[1987_Lakers]

Those quotes are from the mid 2000s though. As in, Bird/Ainge/Scott were all talking about defenses being better THEN.

Right now it is a joke.

Article is from 2014 I think, right before the explosion of the 3 point shot. Like I said in my previous post, defenses are still trying to adjust, I'm sure they will in the next few years, you see trends of offenses exploding then cooling off all the time. Put today's NBA defenses in the 80's for example and they will be fine.

[FromDowntown]

Article is from 2014 I think, right before the explosion of the 3 point shot. Like I said in my previous post, defenses are still trying to adjust, I'm sure they will in the next few years, you see trends of offenses exploding then cooling off all the time. Put today's NBA defenses in the 80's for example and they will be fine.

+1 How hard is it to understand that being able to space the floor with more athleticism and skills and shooting is going to be harder to defend?

[NBAGOAT]

Those quotes are from the mid 2000s though. As in, Bird/Ainge/Scott were all talking about defenses being better THEN.

Right now it is a joke.

dont think defenses massively regressed scheme wise in ten years however. and this was after the handchecking rule so the only big rule since then was freedom of movement. it's big but the jump from like 2016(106.4) to now (110.6) also comes from 3pa. average attempts in 2016 was still only 24, now it's 34.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Article is from 2014 I think, right before the explosion of the 3 point shot. Like I said in my previous post, defenses are still trying to adjust, I'm sure they will in the next few years, you see trends of offenses exploding then cooling off all the time. Put today's NBA defenses in the 80's for example and they will be fine.

Nah look @ the link in that OP. It's dated from 2008.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/story/2008-06-01/much-has-changed-last-celtics-lakers-finals-meeting

Aside from a few teams, I agree that teams in the 80s didn't play much defense. Kind of like today. I think defenses "picked up" from the late 80s going forward and peaked around 2004.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

+1 How hard is it to understand that being able to space the floor with more athleticism and skills and shooting is going to be harder to defend?

Post on one account, pucci.

[1987_Lakers]

dont think defenses massively regressed scheme wise in ten years however scheme wise. and this was after the handchecking rule so the only big rule since then was freedom of movement. it's big but the jump from like 2016(106.4) to now (110.6) also comes from 3pa. average attempts in 2016 was still only 24, now it's 34.

Exactly, it's common sense. Defenses didn't regress scheme wise, the players are still the same, it's just that the 3 point shot exploded, people can complain about the 3 ball all they want but as long as it's working why would offenses stop abusing it? It's an evolution to the game, that's what some posters don't understand, they just think defenses randomly got bad because they stopped trying, fact is offenses just evolved.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It isn't just three pointers though. Otherwise players and coaches wouldn't be saying the following.


"The game dictates the rules," Suns point guard Ricky Rubio said. "I think we're more athletic. We play a different kind of basketball and I think freedom of movement helps that athleticism."


I understand that you’re changing the direction of the player, but right now it’s overboard a little bit. I mean, it’s been a point of emphasis, but you’re trying to get – you can’t touch guys. Guys are about to run, and basketball is a physical game. That’s what we lift weights for, right? If you take the physical nature away from it, then – I mean obviously we have to adapt. It’s going to take some time. And if that’s the rule, then we’ve got to find a way to do it.” - Rudy Gay


Now these teams with these guards just going and attacking, Rose and Teague, these little guards playing on catch, that's like the new athletic style of player that I think the league is going to take advantage of these rules. Speed, being able to recover and close out without using your hands? You can't touch a guy. You better be able to get down into a stance and guard it. That's hard to do." - Nate McMillan

^All from 2020 by the way.

[NBAGOAT]

Exactly, it's common sense. Defenses didn't regress scheme wise, the players are still the same, it's just that the 3 point shot exploded, people can complain about the 3 ball all they want but as long as it's working why would offenses stop abusing it? It's an evolution to the game, that's what some posters don't understand, they just think defenses randomly got bad because they stopped trying, fact is offenses just evolved.

also some recency bias with the bubble stuff which does need to be taken with a grain of salt. There's also a general trend of officials relaxing on enforcing new rules after a few years(see it in football too). they still will but more relaxed on it, notice you dont see explosions in perimeter scoring by like 07 or 08 and ft rate isnt so high. I think in a year or two, freedom of movement wont be enforced as much. Like i know it's the playoffs but i saw handchecking with both hands from tor which hasnt been "legal" in a long time and someone in the game thread was complaining today.

[1987_Lakers]

It isn't just three pointers though. Otherwise players and coaches wouldn't be saying the following.







^All from 2020 by the way.

But these current rules for the most part have been in place for the last 10+ years or so, why did the NBA explode in scoring only in the last 3 years or so? It's the 3 point shot.

[bullettooth]

Imagine fixing up a Honda and then later that day facing MJ in the playoffs

Imagine being called the goat and scoring 8 points in a finals game... 2 of which were foul shots off a flop?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

But these current rules for the most part have been in place for the last 10+ years or so, why did the NBA explode in scoring only in the last 3 years or so? It's the 3 point shot.

I am talking about the last few years, and especially now. Three years ago it wasn't as egregious.

You could chalk it up to mostly threes, and I do agree that its a big factor, but also removing physicality and certain aspects of handchecking benefit the perimeter player. And if we're going back to the 90s, add the three second rule to that.

A stat like "ORTG" isn't only increased by 3PM/A either. A lot of other things that are measured on O go into it.

[NBAGOAT]

I am talking about the last few years, and especially now. Three years ago it wasn't as egregious.

You could chalk it up to mostly threes, and I do agree that its a big factor, but also removing physicality and certain aspects of handchecking benefit the perimeter player. And if we're going back to the 90s, add the three second rule to that.

A stat like "ORTG" isn't only increased by 3PM/A either. A lot of other things that are measured on O go into it.

yea oreb and ft rate has gone down. that should theoretically help defenses yet ortg is at an all time high. it's a balance between teams being more efficient mainly because of the 3 and rule changes and how much of each is usually what's debated. zone defense isnt insignificant if we're talking pre 01 however, makes up for the 3 second rule I think though ik it's loosely enforced. like the celtics often just doubled embiid before he could even catch the ball, ik that's illegal pre 2001.

[ZenMaster7210]

Imagine being called the goat and scoring 8 points in a finals game... 2 of which were foul shots off a flop?

:roll::oldlol::wtf:

[madmax]

Imagine fixing up a Honda and then later that day facing MJ in the playoffs

:lol:applause: