James Harden is already a top 5 shooting guard in nba history

[Lebron23]

Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade and Jerry West are the only players that's better than him.

[BigShotBob]

No.

[Phoenix]

Who do you have in the number 6 spot?

[tpols]

i'd take clyde, reggie, vince carter, and ray all over him.

[Phoenix]

i'd take clyde, reggie, vince carter, and ray all over him.

No A.I?

[Lebron23]

James Harden averaged 36.1 ppg, 7.2 apg, 6.6 rpg, 2.0 spg last year. Huge fan of Iverson , and Carter, but Harden is better than them.

[Phoenix]

In fairness to A.I, he was dropping 33ppg in 2006 at 31 years old. It's not much of a stretch to imagine him doing 35 a game in 2020 if given the same kind of greenlight.

[LoneyROY7]

i'd take clyde, reggie, vince carter, and ray all over him.

And yet Harden has a higher career ORTG than every player listed in this thread other than Reggie (he's tied with MJ). :oldlol: :oldlol:

Oops.

[tpols]

And yet Harden has a higher career ORTG than every player listed in this thread other than Reggie (he's tied with MJ). :oldlol: :oldlol:

Oops.

That's not true. Clyde, Ray and Reggie all have the same playoff ORTG or higher. Plus they all played defense.

I cant take Harden and his flopping, baiting and monopolizing over guys that could fit in a real basketball system.

[Proctor]

:roll::roll::roll:

[LoneyROY7]

That's not true. Clyde, Ray and Reggie all have the same playoff ORTG or higher. Plus they all played defense.

I cant take Harden and his flopping, baiting and monopolizing over guys that could fit in a real basketball system.

Harden has a higher PLAYOFF career ORTG than Kobe and Wade. :oldlol::oldlol:

Oops.

[Proctor]

Harden has a higher PLAYOFF career ORTG than Kobe and Wade. :oldlol::oldlol:

Oops.

What do Kobe and Wade have that Harden never will? Anyone know?

[Turbo Slayer]

What do Kobe and Wade have that Harden never will? Anyone know? A Finals MVP, I think. It still doesn't take away from Harden's greatness. I mean he is one of the history's greatest scorers after all.

[tpols]

Harden has a higher PLAYOFF career ORTG than Kobe and Wade. :oldlol::oldlol:

Oops.

Harden is individually more efficient than them but he cant raise a TEAM to peak levels because of his atrocious style.

Which basically renders everybody stand still wait for a pass for a 3. Of course if Kobe and Wade played with that spacing and style their efficiency would go way up as well.

But you cant iso dribble and chuck your way to a chip with one man. You have to be able to play real team basketball.

[Jordan96]

Harden has a higher PLAYOFF career ORTG than Kobe and Wade. :oldlol::oldlol:

Oops.

Damn!!! Ether

[LAmbruh]

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7btP089a98Xr6AV2/giphy.gif

[r0drig0lac]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/oldlol.gif

[LoneyROY7]

tpols and his great glass house of ORTG.

:oldlol: :oldlol:

[Turbo Slayer]

tpols and his great glass house of ORTG.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Carbine]

You don't have to like his style of play, but he is def better than Ray Allen and Reggie.

[Smook A.]

Absolutely

[Smook A.]

i'd take clyde, reggie, vince carter, and ray all over him.

Well then you'd be stupid. Reggie, Vince, and Ray have no argument for being better than Harden. Neither does Clyde. Harden does everything better than him except defense. And speaking of his defense, it's definitely not as bad as it used to be. Anyone who watches Harden closely knows he's great at post defense, getting deflections, and steals.

[Proctor]

Reggie can go toe to toe with MJ but Harden can't go toe to toe with Jonathon Simmons.

:(

[Turbo Slayer]

Playoff ORTG (min 2 playoff series b/c I don't want any flukes.)

Harden: 114

Wade: 109

Kobe: 113

They are strikingly similiar in playoff ORTG. (min 2 playoff series)

Having a better ORTG doesn't necessarily mean better scorer or player. I just wanted to point this out. I'm not claiming anything. Just for your info.

[Smook A.]

Reggie can go toe to toe with MJ but Harden can't go toe to toe with Jonathon Simmons.

:(

MJ is 32-17 against Reggie all-time. His averages against him: 29.5 ppg/6 rpg/5.4 apg/2.6 spg on 47.6 FG%

Reggie's averages against MJ are 19 ppg/3 rpg/2 apg/1 spg on 46.7 FG%

YEAH Reggie really does go toe to toe with MJ :roll::roll::roll:

Check your facts

[Turbo Slayer]

Harden is individually more efficient than them but he cant raise a TEAM to peak levels because of his atrocious style.

Which basically renders everybody stand still wait for a pass for a 3. Of course if Kobe and Wade played with that spacing and style their efficiency would go way up as well.

But you cant iso dribble and chuck your way to a chip with one man. You have to be able to play real team basketball.


Harden is individually more efficient than them but he cant raise a TEAM to peak levels because of his atrocious style.

Which basically renders everybody stand still wait for a pass for a 3. Of course if Kobe and Wade played with that spacing and style their efficiency would go way up as well.

But you cant iso dribble and chuck your way to a chip with one man. You have to be able to play real team basketball.


his atrocious style. Ok???


Which basically renders everybody stand still wait for a pass for a 3. Of course if Kobe and Wade played with that spacing and style their efficiency would go way up as well.

But you cant iso dribble and chuck your way to a chip with one man. You have to be able to play real team basketball. Actually the 2018-19 Rockets is one of the only 10 teams to exceed 115 ORTG. The only teams better than the 2019 Rockets (offensively) are 1987 LAL, 2017 GSW, 2019 GSW, and 2020 DAL. So the Rockets were playing fanstastic basketball as a unit.

Kobe and the Lakers and Wade and the Heat never did that as a unit. Hell, the 1990s Bulls and LeBron led teams never did that exceeded 115 ORTG (with the exception of 1991-92 Bulls, 1995-96 Bulls). So Harden is pretty damn good at what he does whatever you like it or not.

[1987_Lakers]

I have him at #5. People thinking Reggie was just as good as Harden are beyond delusional. He's also a more dynamic offensive player than Drexler.

[BigShotBob]

Not better than Clyde. Sorry. He might not even be better than Mitch Richmond

[tpols]

Playoff ORTG (min 2 playoff series b/c I don't want any flukes.)

Harden: 114

Wade: 109

Kobe: 113

They are strikingly similiar in playoff ORTG. (min 2 playoff series)

Having a better ORTG doesn't necessarily mean better scorer or player. I just wanted to point this out. I'm not claiming anything. Just for your info.

You're not comparing apples to apples. (like i did with reggie, ray, and klay who all play the same way)

Harden doesn't play like Kobe. You're comparing a tight triangle ball movement offense to a 4 shooters spaced out standing around iso monopolizer.

Houston has the worst assist rank in the entire NBA this year. Getting individual numbers at the expense of teamwork is a bad thing.

So not only is Kobe capable of getting similar or better production than harden, he does it without taking away from his team's ball movement and general chemistry.

And that's not even going into defense.... where harden is one of the worst defenders of all time lmao.

[Smook A.]

Not better than Clyde. Sorry. He might not even be better than Mitch Richmond

Please tell me what Mitch Richmond did better than Harden. I'd love to hear you think of something

[BigShotBob]

Please tell me what Mitch Richmond did better than Harden. I'd love to hear you think of something

Have you watched him play? He was practically the "MJ of the West." Harden has broken records for inefficiency with his 3pt shooting. Can't put him in any class above actual players that want to score and can do it in a variety of ways.

[Smook A.]

Have you watched him play? He was practically the "MJ of the West." Harden has broken records for inefficiency with his 3pt shooting. Can't put him in any class above actual players that want to score and can do it in a variety of ways.

Are we really gonna argue if MITCH RICHMOND was better than James Harden? :oldlol:

What's sad is that it doesn't sound like you're trolling either. Mitch was definitely a good player, but he wasn't close to the scorer Harden is today or has been for the past 4-5 years. In terms of total offensive impact, this isn't even a conversation. Harden blows Richmond out of the water.

And did you really just call him "MJ of the West"? Am I reading that right? :lol This guy made the playoffs a total of 4 times in his entire 14 year career, and he never made it out of the 2nd round. The only time he did was when he was riding the bench on Shaq & Kobe's Lakers in 2002. You don't really know much basketball if you're gonna sit here and tell me Mitch was a better player than Harden.

[Turbo Slayer]

You're not comparing apples to apples. (like i did with reggie, ray, and klay who all play the same way)

Harden doesn't play like Kobe. You're comparing a tight triangle ball movement offense to a 4 shooters spaced out standing around iso monopolizer.

Houston has the worst assist rank in the entire NBA this year. Getting individual numbers at the expense of teamwork is a bad thing.

So not only is Kobe capable of getting similar or better production than harden, he does it without taking away from his team's ball movement and general chemistry.

And that's not even going into defense.... where harden is one of the worst defenders of all time lmao.


Harden doesn't play like Kobe. Of course their game aren't remotely similiar. Kobe uses pure footwork while Harden uses isolation moves to get his points. But usage % (playoffs) says otherwise.


he acknowledged that a player's ORtg needed to be judged in conjunction with his Usage Rate, a measure of how big a role the player fills in his team's offense. The bigger the role, the more difficult it is to maintain a high ORtg; the smaller the role, the easier it is to be highly efficient. Because of this, Oliver stressed that a player's ORtg should primarily be compared to those of other players in a similar role. - From the glossary of Basketball Reference

Excluding years where they were clearly not the team's 1st option, they are similar in playoff usage.

Harden- 33.3%

Kobe's- 33.1%

Wade's- 33.5%

So three of them are in the mid 30's.


a tight triangle ball movement offense Are you implying that the triangle offense lacked spacing? It's literally the opposite.

Tex Winter said this himself by his own words:
“I am literally a fanatic of spacing” – Tex Winter




4 shooters spaced out standing around iso monopolizer. Huge hyperbolic statement but whatever you wanna say to discredit Harden.



Houston has the worst assist rank in the entire NBA this year. Getting individual numbers at the expense of teamwork is a bad thing. Last time I recall, Westbrook was slowly taking the lead role in HOU (I think). Both are known for being ball dominant. Yet despite the team being low in team assists, the 2020 Rockets are 2nd in offense. Care to refute?


So not only is Kobe capable of getting similar or better production than harden, he does it without taking away from his team's ball movement and general chemistry. Ironically, Kobe Bryant style of play is actually ball dominant, one that involved taking tough shots inside the arc. Some people considered him ball dominant back then.


harden is one of the worst defenders of all time lmao. Fair point.

[dankok8]

Sounds about right...

Jordan
Kobe
West
Wade

Can't think of anyone else I'd put over Harden.

[KobesFinger]

I hate Harden and his style of play but I can't disagree. Only person with an argument is AI. Also has an MVP, has 4x scoring titles and took Philly to the Finals and took a game against LA. 5a and 5b, though obviously Harden still has time on his side

[Lebron23]

Please tell me what Mitch Richmond did better than Harden. I'd love to hear you think of something

Nothing. Harden is the superior scorer, and better all around player.

[light]

Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade and Jerry West are the only players that's better than him.

Putting Jerry West over James Harden leaves room to put a lot of other guys over James Harden because Harden was far more efficient and productive than West.

So if efficiency and productivity doesn't matter then you can essentially put anyone over Harden for reasons outside of that.

I'll go ahead and put Iverson over Harden because he was a better leader in the playoffs and a better big-game performer in the playoffs.

Playoff Iverson might drop 55 on you and serve up an iconic moment. Playoff Harden... not so much.

[SouBeachTalents]

Have you watched him play? He was practically the "MJ of the West." Harden has broken records for inefficiency with his 3pt shooting. Can't put him in any class above actual players that want to score and can do it in a variety of ways.
:oldlol: Just some nostalgic bullshit right there

[SouBeachTalents]

I get it, the Harden criticisms are absolutely valid, and he's probably legitimately the last superstar I'd want leading my team in the playoffs, but some of the players being picked ahead of him in this thread are absolutely ridiculous :lol

[Lebron23]

:oldlol: Just some nostalgic bullshit right there

And he never won a playoffs and failed to led the Kings and Wizards as the number one scoring option of his team in the post season. That idiot would probably use the ring excuse he only averaged 1.5 ppg in 2 playoffs games for the Lakers in 2002.

[tpols]

I get it, the Harden criticisms are absolutely valid, and he's probably legitimately the last superstar I'd want leading my team in the playoffs, but some of the players being picked ahead of him in this thread are absolutely ridiculous :lol

only mitch richmond. you cant take a guy whose literally never even won a playoff series over harden.

everybody else is fair game.

[Stephonit]

This is the time for Harden to step up and shine. Not many who could improve their reputations as much with a victory this season. With the Warriors out of the way all he needs to do is go through the Clippers, Lakers and Bucks. Easy peasy! My sentimental favorite this year. Go get em tiger!

[SouBeachTalents]

only mitch richmond. you cant take a guy whose literally never even won a playoff series over harden.

everybody else is fair game.
Never won a playoff series? Dude made the playoffs ONCE in 7 years in Sacramento :lol On top of that, he literally never even finished in the top 12 in MVP voting once in his entire career.

I really don't see the argument for Vince, even Iverson is iffy to me, but I get the difference in eras played leaves that open to some interpretation

[Hakkim90cc]

Im a fan of Harden but anyone think he looked fat this year?

[Phoenix]

:oldlol: Just some nostalgic bullshit right there

I'm not even sure why he would be a nostalgic pick unless people are reminiscing about Run TMC. Mitch was a really nice player but someone taking him over Harden is almost like someone taking Glen Rice over KD( and he was a nice too, but come on now). He put up some nice scoring numbers on teams that mostly did nothing, and he was never more than a 2nd tier star at his best. A nostalgic pick would be someone like Drexler. Glide at least led a few teams to the finals, got a sidekick ring and was much better overall than Richmond ever has. I wouldnt laugh out the building for someone preferring him over Harden even if I don't agree.


Never won a playoff series? Dude made the playoffs ONCE in 7 years in Sacramento :lol On top of that, he literally never even finished in the top 12 in MVP voting once in his entire career.

I really don't see the argument for Vince, even Iverson is iffy to me, but I get the difference in eras played leaves that open to some interpretation

I'm not personally ready to take him over AI. I'm not convinced his level of play has exceeded him, but his legacy hasn't yet. I feel like Iversons inefficiency is the biggest mark against him but he peaked in a really tough defensive era as an undersized shooting guard. He's be more efficient in this era putting up the same kind of numbers. Really this era was built for a player like that. Iverson had some intangibles that you can go into war with. I realize that's not something people can analyze on a spreadsheet but if the question was one game in the playoffs? I think I'm rolling with AI. Harden may be a better floor raiser and blend in better with a 2nd star, especially a backcourt one.

[LoneyROY7]

Im a fan of Harden but anyone think he looked fat this year?

Dude literally lost 20 pounds during quarantine.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYpmr5oXQAApDnK.jpg

About to rampage when the NBA returns. :rockon:

[tpols]

I really don't see the argument for Vince

the argument for vince is he was an infinitely better finisher, and similar jumpshooter.

the only reason harden has better efficiencies is the spacing and monopolizing he does with the dribble.

imagine young carter played with the current lanes... look at his finishing ability compared to harden who can barely dunk.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/5116558fcedb7c632688e224f74432e9/tumblr_mtfwt3wXIZ1qcmnsoo1_400.gifv

thats a rookie vs peak mutumbo.

:biggums:

and on top of that his jumper was silky smooth.

[Hakkim90cc]

Dude literally lost 20 pounds during quarantine.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYpmr5oXQAApDnK.jpg

About to rampage when the NBA returns. :rockon:

That extra weight was holding him down he looked visibly slower

[LoneyROY7]

the argument for vince is he was an infinitely better finisher, and similar jumpshooter.

the only reason harden has better efficiencies is the spacing and monopolizing he does with the dribble.

imagine young carter played with the current lanes... look at his finishing ability compared to harden who can barely dunk.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/5116558fcedb7c632688e224f74432e9/tumblr_mtfwt3wXIZ1qcmnsoo1_400.gifv

thats a rookie vs peak mutumbo.

:biggums:

and on top of that his jumper was silky smooth.

Uhh, Vince wasn't near the iso player Harden is, champ. His handle, first step, strength and footwork is on a different level than Carter's.

[tpols]

Uhh, Vince wasn't near the iso player Harden is, champ. His handle, first step, strength and footwork is on a different level than Carter's.

Carter's first step was one of his best attributes. He was a triple threat guy.

Harden is a lacksadaisical dribble spammer. He rarely ever beats guys off a single first step lol. He has to lather himself into any shot he takes.

I'd rather have VC. :confusedshrug:

[LoneyROY7]

Carter's first step was one of his best attributes. He was a triple threat guy.

Harden is a lacksadaisical dribble spammer who baits and flops for cheap FT's, and long jacks.

I'd rather have VC. :confusedshrug:

LOL no it wasn't. Vince's athleticism was primarily rooted in his leaping ability, not his quickness. That's why you would see him settling for more jumpers than someone like Kobe, who also had a superior first step.

That's great that you would rather have him, Harden is still better. :oldlol:

[Phoenix]

the argument for vince is he was an infinitely better finisher, and similar jumpshooter.

the only reason harden has better efficiencies is the spacing and monopolizing he does with the dribble.

imagine young carter played with the current lanes... look at his finishing ability compared to harden who can barely dunk.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/5116558fcedb7c632688e224f74432e9/tumblr_mtfwt3wXIZ1qcmnsoo1_400.gifv

thats a rookie vs peak mutumbo.

:biggums:

and on top of that his jumper was silky smooth.

Vince would thrive with the open lanes but he wasnt the iso player Harden is. I suppose you could make the argument that spacing improves that because he has more room to operate but, I dont know. Vince had the tools but he didnt have the ruthlessly cut-throat mentality it seems. He should have done more with his talent but by Harden's current age( 30/31) he was already down to like 21 a game and then he went to Orlando and into role player status more or less. It's like he decided he just didnt want the burden of being a star anymore or something.

[tpols]

LOL no it wasn't. Vince's athleticism was primarily rooted in his leaping ability, not his quickness. That's why you would see him settling for more jumpers than someone like Kobe, who also had a superior first step.

That's great that you would rather have him, Harden is still better. :oldlol:

Carter was plenty quick. especially out the position of just catching the ball and having to decide between shooting, jabbing, or driving. (triple threat)

the main thing with vince was he wasn't really fast. he didnt have great top end speed, harden's might be better.

His initial burst from a stand still though was always great. He settled for jumpers mainly because defenses took note and let him go with the lesser of two evils.

[LoneyROY7]

Carter was plenty quick. especially out the position of just catching the ball and having to decide between shooting, jabbing, or driving. (triple threat)

the main thing with vince was he wasn't really fast. he didnt have great top end speed, harden's might be better.

His initial burst from a stand still though was always great. He settled for jumpers mainly because defenses took note and let him go with the lesser of two evils.

Yeah, I've watched plenty of Vince film/clips. I didn't say his burst was bad, I'm comparing it to Harden's and Kobe's who are both elite in that regard.

[BigShotBob]

Are we really gonna argue if MITCH RICHMOND was better than James Harden? :oldlol:

What's sad is that it doesn't sound like you're trolling either. Mitch was definitely a good player, but he wasn't close to the scorer Harden is today or has been for the past 4-5 years. In terms of total offensive impact, this isn't even a conversation. Harden blows Richmond out of the water.

And did you really just call him "MJ of the West"? Am I reading that right? :lol This guy made the playoffs a total of 4 times in his entire 14 year career, and he never made it out of the 2nd round. The only time he did was when he was riding the bench on Shaq & Kobe's Lakers in 2002. You don't really know much basketball if you're gonna sit here and tell me Mitch was a better player than Harden.

From a pure basketball standpoint the main difference I see is the volume, and the 3pt shooting. They can both finish well, Mitch Richmond could rebound (peaked at 2 ORB statistically) better (ORB being a better metric than defensive) and Harden gets the nod for scoring totals but we all know how he gets his points - in free open space with extremely high volume.

Defensively it's not even close. Harden has been awful until this season. Maybe last year when he was actually top 5 in steals iirc. So two years of actually putting effort into defense.

Passing Harden can get the nod, but he also monopolizes the ball more than Mitch Richmond ever did.

And those Kings teams were awful, we all know that. He was traded to a bottom feeder but he still managed steal a game from Seattle in 96' ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIH07X12M2Q )

Look at how fluid he moves and how he can score from anywhere on the court.

Harden is far too streaky. He can shoot you out of a game and be the reason why you lose, especially when he is lazy and chucking up 3's. Of all of the players with the most missed 3's in a game, James Harden is top 6 all by himself.

He's also setting turnover records as well.

Game 1 against the Warriors last year he single-handedly lost his team the game. He was 9/28 and 4/16 from three in a 4 point loss.

That's the risk you have when you have James Harden on your team. He can chuck you right out of a game.

So also Clyde > Harden.

[Whoah10115]

Have Carter if you want.

Issue is the delusional thought that Harden hasn't passed him all-time. Many people don't realize how good he was, but after his 3rd season his motor was questionable, at best. In Jersey he got much of it back, but he was clearly better in his first season with the Nets.

No way that he can rank higher on anybody's list. Drexler could, Iverson yes. Disagree if you'd like. But Vince isn't higher than McGrady, all-time. Even tho I'm different from most and prefer him at his peak.

As far as Richmond goes...obviously he defends better and, given his effort on defense, I could argue he rebounds better. Also a better pure shooter, so those who wanna bring him down should remember all that.

That said, the stats with Harden will blind people. But what actually hurts Richmond is that his teams were so bad he barely got into the playoffs.

KG had a hard time in the 1st round..but he got there 8 years in a row...to.a WCF, and then in Boston. Once Mitch was traded from Golden State he made the playoffs once? And didn't win multiple games.

Not his fault, but like getting injured early, shortchanges the ability to rise up.

[LoneyROY7]

Peep James sprinting from behind half-court for a dunk against GS in the '18 WCFs.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/MZosZwBkOly4QcQ2W3/giphy.gif

Look at the separation he creates from KD in a split second. Elite.

[Axe]

So he is better than klay thompson

[Smook A.]

Carter's first step was one of his best attributes. He was a triple threat guy.

Harden is a lacksadaisical dribble spammer. He rarely ever beats guys off a single first step lol. He has to lather himself into any shot he takes.

I'd rather have VC. :confusedshrug:

Correction: You'd rather have VC only because you like his game better. As far as impact goes, prime VC doesn't even have an argument over prime Harden. Neither do the other guys you picked above him (Ray, Reggie, and Clyde)

[Smoke117]

i'd take clyde, reggie, vince carter, and ray all over him.

Lmfao. Everyone knows I despise James Harden, but someone like Reggie Miller or Vince Carter has never had close to the impact of a James Harden. That is just absurd.

[warriorfan]

From a pure basketball standpoint the main difference I see is the volume, and the 3pt shooting. They can both finish well, Mitch Richmond could rebound (peaked at 2 ORB statistically) better (ORB being a better metric than defensive) and Harden gets the nod for scoring totals but we all know how he gets his points - in free open space with extremely high volume.

Defensively it's not even close. Harden has been awful until this season. Maybe last year when he was actually top 5 in steals iirc. So two years of actually putting effort into defense.

Passing Harden can get the nod, but he also monopolizes the ball more than Mitch Richmond ever did.

And those Kings teams were awful, we all know that. He was traded to a bottom feeder but he still managed steal a game from Seattle in 96' ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIH07X12M2Q )

Look at how fluid he moves and how he can score from anywhere on the court.

Harden is far too streaky. He can shoot you out of a game and be the reason why you lose, especially when he is lazy and chucking up 3's. Of all of the players with the most missed 3's in a game, James Harden is top 6 all by himself.

He's also setting turnover records as well.

Game 1 against the Warriors last year he single-handedly lost his team the game. He was 9/28 and 4/16 from three in a 4 point loss.

That's the risk you have when you have James Harden on your team. He can chuck you right out of a game.

So also Clyde > Harden.

Mitch Rich was a beast. Super underrated. Like all guards Hardens stats would look much different in his era.

[Smoke117]

Mitch Rich was a beast. Super underrated. Like all guards Hardens stats would look much different in his era.

Yeah, he was really beastful and impactful all those years he led his team to...the lottery. That you're a steph curry dick sucker, one of the highest impact players of all time, and would suck off someone like Mitch Richmond is hilarious. Well, it's not like you are a Curry fan because you're intelligent, he just happens to play where he plays and your ghetto Oakland trash.

[Axe]

Oof

[Reggie43]

Take away the D'Antoni system and the modern day rules from Harden and what would we get? Probably somebody close to Carter but not as good as Peak Tmac.

[Smoke117]

Take away the D'Antoni system and the modern day rules from Harden and what would we get? Probably somebody close to Carter but not as good as Peak Tmac.

...And what is the D'Antoni system? I'm curious. I want to hear from the expert. I watched nearly every Rockets game in 2018, but you know what, I want to know from you, so please tell me. What is this magic D'Antoni system? Because in 2018 with Harden and CP3 it was basically iso and pick and roll. Is that some offense that nobody else is doing and if you take it away you won't get wins? I didn't think so. You watch a handful of Rocket games and want to talk some bullshit...at least ****ing study up, kid.

[Reggie43]

You dont need to be an "expert" to know you get inflated stats playing under D'Antoni, add in the modern no handcheck, freedom of movement rules that also allows harden to blatantly travel and commit offensive fouls and you get a player that is not as impressive as his numbers indicate.

[Smoke117]

You dont need to be an "expert" to know you get inflated stats playing under D'Antoni, add in the modern no handcheck, freedom of movement rules that also allows harden to blatantly travel and commit offensive fouls and you get a player that is not as impressive as his numbers indicate.

So, basically never actually watched them play. Well, thanks for giving me confirmation. Everything you said applies to both teams and nothing to the actual Rockets. Again, I despise Harden. You're just a fool running his fool mouth about nothing he knows about. I don't take any joy in burying you...well...that's not true...I am an asshole, but you are just saying shit and have be called out for it. End of story. I'm moving on. You should do the same thing.

[Reggie43]

So, basically never actually watched them play. Well, thanks for giving me confirmation. Everything you said applies to both teams and nothing to the actual Rockets. Again, I despise Harden. You're just a fool running his fool mouth about nothing he knows about. I don't take any joy in burying you...well...that's not true...I am an asshole, but you are just saying shit and have be called out for it. End of story. I'm moving on. You should do the same thing.

Yeah I know you cant still recover from the fact that I caught you lying on that Pippen thread so you follow/quote me on every thread you see me on. Too bad you wont catch me blatantly lying just to prove a point like you did.

[Smoke117]

Yeah I know you cant still recover from the fact that I caught you lying on that Pippen thread so you follow/quote me on every thread you see me on. Too bad you wont catch me blatantly lying just to prove a point like you did.

I honestly didn't even remember who you were till I read your stupid comment...then I was like...oh that guy. The fact that you just said this while bringing up nothing in relation to the Rockets and how they play basketball...well I think that speaks for itself, no? Do yourself a favor and just shut your bullshit trap. I'm still amicable now. I won you, loss. Let's just move on, yes? Please do this. And i'm not asking for my benefit.

[Reggie43]

I honestly didn't even remember who you were till I read your stupid comment...then I was like...oh that guy. The fact that you just said this while bringing up nothing in relation to the Rockets and how they play basketball...well I think that speaks for itself, no? Do yourself a favor and just shut your bullshit trap. I'm still amicable now. I won you, loss. Let's just move on, yes? Please do this. And i'm not asking for my benefit.

I dont actually mind seeing you meltdown everytime on my posts so why stop now? Never stalked you on threads like what you did to me so you have nothing to worry about.

Love how you got triggered by me saying the gameplan and modern rules inflates Hardens numbers. Is that not common knowledge? Would he still get the same numbers in 2004 and below with a more traditional coach?

[MrFonzworth]

Oof

What a useless ****ing post. Wtf is your deal man? Kick rocks.

[Smoke117]

I dont actually mind seeing you meltdown everytime on my posts so why stop now? Never stalked you on threads like what you did to me so you have nothing to worry about.

Love how you got triggered by me saying the gameplan and modern rules inflates Hardens numbers. Is that not common knowledge? Would he still get the same numbers in 2004 and below with a more traditional coach?

lol If I was going to meltdown I'd do it in a much more explosive fashion. You are just boring. Just don't respond to me anymore. I need some kind of stimulation and all you are bringing is the dead corpse edition. Grow a some kind of wit and whimsy and then maybe we can talk. I'm just bored right now.

[Reggie43]

lol If I was going to meltdown I'd do it in a much more explosive fashion. You are just boring. Just don't respond to me anymore. I need some kind of stimulation and all you are bringing is the dead corpse edition. Grow a some kind of wit and whimsy and then maybe we can talk. I'm just bored right now.

The so called "expert" cant even answer my basketball related question.

How about developing your reading comprehension skills first so you dont meltdown on every other thread/ post you see?

[Doranku]

Harden has a higher PLAYOFF career ORTG than Kobe and Wade. :oldlol::oldlol:

Oops.

Kobe '08: 30/6/6 on 48% - 113 ORtg
Harden '14: 27/5/6 on 38% - 112 ORtg

huh.. wonder how the math works for that one. :oldlol:

[Axe]

What a useless ****ing post. Wtf is your deal man? Kick rocks.
Well, fvck you then, k-pop bitch.

[RogueBorg]

Kobe '08: 30/6/6 on 48% - 113 ORtg
Harden '14: 27/5/6 on 38% - 112 ORtg

huh.. wonder how the math works for that one. :oldlol:

:confusedshrug:

[Roundball_Rock]

Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade and Jerry West are the only players that's better than him.

MJ, Kobe, West are clearly better. Wade, Harden, Drexler, Iverson are all in a tier behind them for 4-7. I put Wade 4th, Harden 5th. He already has accomplished more than Drexler did in his career. This isn't a knock on Drexler but a testament to how great Harden is himself.

[Jacks3]

Playoff ORTG (min 2 playoff series b/c I don't want any flukes.)

Harden: 114

Wade: 109

Kobe: 113

They are strikingly similiar in playoff ORTG. (min 2 playoff series)

Having a better ORTG doesn't necessarily mean better scorer or player. I just wanted to point this out. I'm not claiming anything. Just for your info.

Comparing individual ORTG in the post-season without adjusting for opponent defensive quality doesn't make much sense.

Kobe from 01-10 had a 111 ORTG. The average team he played over that stretch had a 101 DRTG, which gives him a relative ORTG of +10.

I'm fairly sure that number tops what Harden or Wade have done over their post-season primes.

[Jasper]

harden is a PURE HOG BALL player = I DO NOT LIKE HIM.