What Finals was Lebron worse than Drexler's Finals (26/8/5 vs Rodman, MJ, Pippen)

[3ball]

Lebron faced much weaker defenders and drtg



Some decades have 2 teams with more talent than everyone else, like the 80's (Lakers/Celtics) or 2010's (Heat/Spurs or Cavs/Warriors) - these teams have 3+ perennial all-stars and this was the Finals standard.

Otoh, talent was more spread-out in the 90's and other decades, so many teams met the lower Finals standard of 1 or 2 stars.. some of these teams were incredibly well-balanced, like drexler's Blazers or Reggie's Pacers

It's harder to win a championship being one of many Finals-caliber teams (90's), then to win as 1 of 2 Finals-caliber teams (10's)

[Roundball_Rock]

For perspective here is what Drexler did in the Finals:

1990: 26/8/6 on 54%
1992: 25/8/5 on 41%
1995: 22/10/7 on 45%

[3ball]

For perspective here is what Drexler did in the Finals:

1990: 26/8/6 on 54%
1992: 25/8/5 on 41%
1995: 22/10/7 on 45%

I meant to say only 1st option Finals, but I see that Drexler's 2nd option stats in 95' (better than peak Pippen) are likely better than several of lebron's 1st option Finals..

Also, Drexler's 90' and 92' Finals runs > lebron's 07' and 11' Finals runs:

Drexler 1992 PO... 26.3.. 7.4.. 7.0.. 55.8 ts.. 120 ortg.. 6.2 obpm.. 2.1 vorp.. 22.8 PER
Lebron' 2011 PO... 23.7.. 8.4.. 5.9.. 56.3 ts.. 113 ortg.. 5.4 obpm.. 2.3 vorp.. 23.7 PER
Lebron' 2007 PO... 25.1.. 8.1.. 8.0.. 51.6 ts.. 109 ortg.. 5.4 obpm.. 2.4 vorp.. 23.9 PER

[Manny98]

Drexler shot 40% from the field in the 92 finals, that's pathetic

Pippen hung a light 21/8/8 on 48% in the 92 finals :bowdown:

What second option is giving you those type of number with Elite defense

[AlternativeAcc.]

Drexler shot 40% from the field in the 92 finals, that's pathetic

Pippen hung a light 21/8/8 on 48% in the 92 finals :bowdown:

What second option is giving you those type of number with Elite defense

Ummm.. none in history except Pippen

[Lebron23]

Lebron still averaged 28 ppg on 49 fg shooting, 11 rpg, 8 apg, 1.8 spg despite having a worst start in his finals career.

[3ball]

Drexler shot 40% from the field in the 92 finals, that's pathetic

Pippen hung a light 21/8/8 on 48% in the 92 finals :bowdown:

What second option is giving you those type of number with Elite defense

MJ shut down Drexler - he took the defensive load off Pippen and averaged 16 more per game - when did lebron lock down the opponent's best player and score 16 more than his 2nd option (aka carry-job)??.. lebron needed an equal-scoring teammate to win a Finals, and let's his man get fmvp

[Manny98]

MJ shut down Drexler - he took the defensive load off Pippen and averaged 16 more per game - when did lebron lock down the opponent's best player and score 16 more than his 2nd option (aka carry-job)??.. lebron needed an equal-scoring teammate to win a Finals, and let's his man get fmvp

And Pippen took the playmaking load off MJ

Name a single playoff series where Lebron gets outrebounded and out assisted by his own sidekick

Oh wait you can't because Lebron always had to carry the scoring,assist and rebounding burden whilst having to anchor the entire defense by himself

Whilst MJ only had a scoring burden to deal with. He had Pippen and Grant/Rodman to cover him defensively and Pippen to carry the playmaking burden

[Duncan21formvp]

Drexler and Lebron are one in the same. Both are .333 in the finals.

[3ball]

And Pippen took the playmaking load off MJ

Name a single playoff series where Lebron gets outrebounded and out assisted by his own sidekick

Oh wait you can't because Lebron always had to carry the scoring,assist and rebounding burden whilst having to anchor the entire defense by himself

Whilst MJ only had a scoring burden to deal with. He had Pippen and Grant/Rodman to cover him defensively and Pippen to carry the playmaking burden

Lebron led Kyrie by 2 ppg and apg
Jordan led Pippen by 10-30 ppg and equal apg


MJ's is better

You overrate tiny edges in rpg and apg but ignore MJ's massive scoring edge

[Roundball_Rock]

Drexler shot 40% from the field in the 92 finals, that's pathetic

Pippen hung a light 21/8/8 on 48% in the 92 finals :bowdown:

What second option is giving you those type of number with Elite defense

Great point. Keep in mind this was peak Drexler--one of the players MJ stans go around saying >>>Pippen and a pre-peak Pippen was outplaying him. Pippen and 4 bench players had the fourth quarter comeback in Game 6 down 15; Drexler was on the court and was unable to stop the rally.

[KD7]

Great point. Keep in mind this was peak Drexler--one of the players MJ stans go around saying >>>Pippen and a pre-peak Pippen was outplaying him. Pippen and 4 bench players had the fourth quarter comeback in Game 6 down 15; Drexler was on the court and was unable to stop the rally.
Yep

21/8/8 off 48% with elite defense vs 25/8/6 off 40% with average defense

Pippen > peak Drexler

[Roundball_Rock]

Yep

21/8/8 off 48% with elite defense vs 25/8/6 off 40% with average defense

Pippen > peak Drexler

That is what Jordan himself concluded.


Michael returned from the games raving about Scottie’s performance. Before the summer, Michael had regarded Pippen as the most talented member of his supporting cast. But after watching him outplay Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Clyde Drexler, and other future Hall of Famers in Barcelona, Michael realized that Scottie was the best all-around player on what many consider the best basketball team ever assembled. Scottie, Michael had to admit, had even outshone him in several of the games.”–Phil Jackson

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/phil-jackson-remembers-a-moment-when-michael-jordan-realized-scottie-pippen-is-the-best-all-around-player-in-the-nba/

[Elosha]

Great point. Keep in mind this was peak Drexler--one of the players MJ stans go around saying >>>Pippen and a pre-peak Pippen was outplaying him. Pippen and 4 bench players had the fourth quarter comeback in Game 6 down 15; Drexler was on the court and was unable to stop the rally.

Who was guarding Drexer in 92? :facepalm Takes nothing away from Pippen, he played very well in 92.

[Roundball_Rock]

Who was guarding Drexer in 92? :facepalm

No need to get insecure. We all know the answer.

We can't credit Pippen for outplaying the opposing #1 without MJ stans getting insecure. :lol

[jlip]

Everyone read the title of this thread, and tell me what's wrong with it.

[97 bulls]

No need to get insecure. We all know the answer.

We can't credit Pippen for outplaying the opposing #1 without MJ stans getting insecure. :lol

Bingo. This has been the issue. For some strange reason, people see Pippen success as a knock on Jordan. I just cant figure why that's the case.

[97 bulls]

Everyone read the title of this thread, and tell me what's wrong with it.

Lol Rodman. I just noticed that.

[Roundball_Rock]

Bingo. This has been the issue. For some strange reason, people see Pippen success as a knock on Jordan. I just cant figure why that's the case.

They have always been like this but they have snapped. I think the pressure of the LeBron threat is getting to them.

Remember BruceBlitz? He had a meltdown over Pippen and did a video saying Pippen was overrated, he was "only" 40th or so all-time. This was in 2009 and he represented what MJ stans then would say: Pippen was top 40-50 all-time. So they were much lower than the rest of the world but not outlandishly so. Now you wouldn't find any MJ stan on ISH who would have anywhere near Pippen top 40 (meanwhile the rest of the world has settled in on him as top 20-30, if anything he has risen slightly over the past decade with the rest of the world).

[Bankaii]

This is the second time I’ve seen you reference Rodman with the 1st 3-peat team.
Legit question have you ever actually watched a basketball game?

[RogueBorg]

people see Pippen success as a knock on Jordan. I just cant figure why that's the case.

That's not true. Don't start making things up.

[97 bulls]

That's not true. Don't start making things up.

Then what exactly do you disagree with us on?

[RogueBorg]

Everyone read the title of this thread, and tell me what's wrong with it.

Drexler faced Rodman in the 1990 Finals, averaged 26-7.8-6

[RogueBorg]

Then what exactly do you disagree with us on?

We, at least I, do not see Pippen's success as a knock on Jordan.

[97 bulls]

We, at least I, do not see Pippen's success as a knock on Jordan.

Let me come at this in a different way. I feel Scottie Pippen was an MVP caliber player that took a backseat to the greatest player ever. Top 3 at his best. Routinely top 10 in the NBA

A very good scorer, arguably the best wing defender ever. The only guy I can remember that ran an offense and anchored a defense at a high level.

Tell me where I'm wrong and or how you saw Scottie Pippen

[RogueBorg]

Let me come at this in a different way. I feel Scottie Pippen was an MVP caliber player that took a backseat to the greatest player ever. Top 3 at his best. Routinely top 10 in the NBA

A very good scorer, arguably the best wing defender ever. The only guy I can remember that ran an offense and anchored a defense at a high level.

Tell me where I'm wrong and or how you saw Scottie Pippen

First, I would call him a good scorer, not very good. I would not put him top 3 from the 90's. I would agree arguably the best wing defender of all-time. He's a poor man's Lebron, which is a compliment not a knock. Pipp's not as big, nor as strong, but they're almost the same player. That's why I have jokingly called LeBron the Gemini Man, a better, stronger, faster clone of Pippen. Scottie's biggest problem, and I'm guilty of this as well, is he's compared next to Michael Jordan, and that's not fair to Pippen.

Here's the players from the 90's I take over Pippen;

Jordan
Shaq
Hakeem
Robinson
Ewing
Malone
Barkley

Pippen was a great player, he's not a god-like player.

[97 bulls]

First, I would call him a good scorer, not very good. I would not put him top 3 from the 90's. I would agree arguably the best wing defender of all-time. He's a poor man's Lebron, which is a compliment not a knock. Pipp's not as big, nor as strong, but they're almost the same player. That's why I have jokingly called LeBron the Gemini Man, a better, stronger, faster clone of Pippen. Scottie's biggest problem, and I'm guilty of this as well, is he's compared next to Michael Jordan, and that's not fair to Pippen.

Here's the players from the 90's I take over Pippen;

Jordan
Shaq
Hakeem
Robinson
Ewing
Malone
Barkley

Pippen was a great player, he's not a god-like player.

Any disagreement in this post from me would be splitting hairs.

[ImKobe]

Let me come at this in a different way. I feel Scottie Pippen was an MVP caliber player that took a backseat to the greatest player ever. Top 3 at his best. Routinely top 10 in the NBA

A very good scorer, arguably the best wing defender ever. The only guy I can remember that ran an offense and anchored a defense at a high level.

Tell me where I'm wrong and or how you saw Scottie Pippen

A very good scorer? Someone who peaked at 22.0 ppg on 54.4%TS is a "very good scorer" when talking about the best players in the league?

Gary Payton was a better playmaker, just as good of a scorer and also played DPOY-level defense. Jordan did everything offensively while also winning DPOY.