Assists can be just as selfish as scoring

[Bronbron23]

I think most people agree that team systems that emphasis alot of movement is more successful than systems that emphasis one player dominating the ball. So if you refuse ro play within a system for stats your essentially chosing your personal stats over the team winning. Basically every assists you get is a selfish act.

[Uncle Drew]

So these things can't go hand in hand?

[ArbitraryWater]

I think most people agree that team systems that emphasis alot of movement is more successful than systems that emphasis one player dominating the ball. So if you refuse ro play within a system for stats your essentially chosing your personal stats over the team winning. Basically every assists you get is a selfish act.

yup, its just this black and white.

[Smoke117]

Yeah, this idiotic thread has no agenda. Very transparent. OP is half a retard.

[FultzNationRISE]

To be honest? Threads about assists being selfish can be just as selfish as the assists themselves.

Think about it.

[Bankaii]

What a moron.

[DoctorP]

it results in 3/9

[3ball]

The OP is only understood by sophisticated observers

Also, when a defense has to work hard, it has less capacity for offense - you hear guys say they want to make a great scorer like Kobe or MJ "work on defense" so they aren't as fresh on offense - this applies to teams too

ultimately, defenses work harder against ball movement, so they're more likely to go off offensively against a team with less ball movement like lebron's teams (selfish style).. it looks like lebron's teams aren't playing good defense, but they're really just losing the attrition battle, aka the best defense is a good offense

[DoctorP]

^^^ This is only understood by sophisticated observers

Also, when a defense has to work hard and is on it's heels making adjustments, it has less capacity for offense - you hear guys say they want to make a great scorer like Kobe or MJ "work on defense" so they aren't as fresh on offense - this applies to to teams too

ultimately, defenses work harder against ball movement, so they're more likely to go off offensively against a team with less ball movement like lebron's teams (selfish style).. it looks like lebron's teams aren't playing good defense, but they really just losing the attrition battle, aka the best defense is a good offense

yes. basically Spurs v Heat II was this.

[LeCroix]

Turnovers are selfish

Lbj has better assist to turnover ratio than MJ

Bye

[Bronbron23]

So these things can't go hand in hand?

Not really although to brons credit i dont think hes intentionally chosing stats over wins. I think he
Legit believes he can have his cake and eat it too. Even if this is the case and he's intentionally being selfish at the very least this makes him a worse leader.

[Bronbron23]

yup, its just this black and white.

yeah kind of is actually

[Bronbron23]

Yeah, this idiotic thread has no agenda. Very transparent. OP is half a retard.

I never said there was no agenda. Im obviously talking about lebron.

[tpols]

all about the team assist rank.

For example magic gets tons of assists, but his team is 1st rank.

A guy like westbrook or harden get a bunch and theyre team is last rank. means nothing....

[DoctorP]

yup, its just this black and white.

i will blabber more. it's really about the type of assist. if your game is about hogging the ball and then setting up these bailout spotup 3s all the time, theres a certain rhythm that isnt established. Teams are better off touching the ball and creating a rhythm.

Westbrook averaged a triple double and barely made the playoffs and was trounced. chris paul with a similar team had em playing a better brand of ball.

theres a certain way to play selfish and get assist numbers. its hard to explain.

[DoctorP]

all about the team assist rank.

For example magic gets tons of assists, but his team is 1st rank.

A guy like westbrook or harden get a bunch and theyre team is last rank. means nothing....


yeeeeaaaaaahhhhhhhh

[Bronbron23]

I never said there was no agenda. Im obviously talking about lebron.

My bad dude

[ArbitraryWater]

i will blabber more. it's really about the type of assist. if your game is about hogging the ball and then setting up these bailout spotup 3s all the time, theres a certain rhythm that isnt established. Teams are better off touching the ball and creating a rhythm.

Westbrook averaged a triple double and barely made the playoffs and was trounced. chris paul with a similar team had em playing a better brand of ball.

theres a certain way to play selfish and get assist numbers. its hard to explain.

its not hard to explain.

its also about looking at how a team is constructed though and its quality of ballhandlers.

for many its necessary for the ball dominant superstar to be the primary source of assiots / basket creation, because others would fail to do so.

even if those teams could never achieve fluid dynamic offenses of the spurs/warriors types.

OP of course cannot think this far.

[Smoke117]

i will blabber more. it's really about the type of assist. if your game is about hogging the ball and then setting up these bailout spotup 3s all the time, theres a certain rhythm that isnt established. Teams are better off touching the ball and creating a rhythm.

Westbrook averaged a triple double and barely made the playoffs and was trounced. chris paul with a similar team had em playing a better brand of ball.

theres a certain way to play selfish and get assist numbers. its hard to explain.

Lol The thunder of last season are not the thunder of this season. The three best players on the team are all new.

[DoctorP]

its not hard to explain.

its also about looking at how a team is constructed though and its quality of ballhandlers.

for many its necessary for the ball dominant superstar to be the primary source of assiots / basket creation, because others would fail to do so.

even if those teams could never achieve fluid dynamic offenses of the spurs/warriors types.

OP of course cannot think this far.

yeh if a team is lacking that balance you need a guy to do it but in the end that flaw will cost you titles against a team that has talent and that balance.

[DoctorP]

Lol The thunder of last season are not the thunder of this season. The three best players on the team are all new.

yeah thats why i wrote similar. I didnt write exact. go drink some more and stop being a pedantic turd :lol

[Smoke117]

yeah thats why i wrote similar. I didnt write exact. go drink some more and stop being a pedantic turd :lol

No, you didn’t write anything of sense as you never do. You just said a lot stupid ass nothing as usual.

[Bronbron23]

its not hard to explain.

its also about looking at how a team is constructed though and its quality of ballhandlers.

for many its necessary for the ball dominant superstar to be the primary source of assiots / basket creation, because others would fail to do so.

even if those teams could never achieve fluid dynamic offenses of the spurs/warriors types.

OP of course cannot think this far.

Right because mj had so many ball handlers and offensive juggernauts on his teams. Even pip was more of a willing passer within the triangle than a great passer. He wasnt a magic or stocton or anything.

[DoctorP]

No, you didn’t write anything of sense as you never do. You just said a lot stupid ass nothing as usual.

yeah ok buddy. u butthurt now? go take a shot and act like a tough guy :lol :lol

[Manny98]

I never said there was no agenda. Im obviously talking about lebron.
Magic won 5 rings averaging 11 assists per game :confusedshrug:

[ArbitraryWater]

Right because mj had so many ball handlers and offensive juggernauts on his teams. Even pip was more of a willing passer within the triangle than a great passer. He wasnt a magic or stocton or anything.

Pip did a large job of the ballhandling dummie.

[Whoah10115]

Anything can be as anything as anything.

[Bronbron23]

Pip did a large job of the ballhandling dummie.

Yup And he only had 2 seasons of 6 assists and 1 of 7 assists. Like i said he was no stocton or magic.

And if you knew anything about ball or the triangle youd know why pip had the ball in his hands alot. Im guessing you hqve no idea though.

[Bronbron23]

Magic won 5 rings averaging 11 assists per game :confusedshrug:

Om whats your point?

[MaxPlayer]

Assists are selfish because Lebron gets a lot of them

[ncrizzle]

i too enjoy troll threads

[RRR3]

My bad dude
:biggums:


Wrong account?

[imdaman99]

all about the team assist rank.

For example magic gets tons of assists, but his team is 1st rank.

A guy like westbrook or harden get a bunch and theyre team is last rank. means nothing....

Maybe some teams are blessed with studs like Andre Roberson and Kyle Singler so that's why their assist numbers are inflated.

[RRR3]

Maybe some teams are blessed with studs like Andre Roberson and Kyle Singler so that's why their assist numbers are inflated.
He thinks if he hates on Westbrook it makes LeBron look bad, which is literally all he cares about.

[imdaman99]

He thinks if he hates on Westbrook it makes LeBron look bad, which is literally all he cares about.

We have people on here playing mental gymnastics, who are woke, that swear someone that averages 27-7-7 his entire career is a bad and selfish teammate :lol

Stay woke friends :roll:

[tpols]

Maybe some teams are blessed with studs like Andre Roberson and Kyle Singler so that's why their assist numbers are inflated.

the thunder finished with the 30th team assist rank in 2012 when Westbrook played with Harden and Durant.

They finished 25th rank in 2017 when he had a team of his own.

Bottom line, the man is a horrible team work killer.

I want an apology.

[imdaman99]

the thunder finished with the 30th team assist rank in 2012 when Westbrook played with Harden and Durant.

They finished 25th rank in 2017 when he had a team of his own.

Bottom line, the man is a horrible team work killer.

I want an apology.

Why are you leaving out all the years of Thunder being a terrible offense with Westbrook as the PG before KD bounced (and they replaced him with Kyle Singler and then Melo)? 2013, what was OKC's offensive rank? I don't want an apology because I know you're a troll.

[RRR3]

Why is ttrolls so obsessed with team APG numbers instead of how good the offense actually was? Pretty sure those KD WB teams consistently were amongst the best offenses in the league.

[Bronbron23]

:biggums:


Wrong account?

What? I was responding to smoke. I thought he was something that he wasnt.

[Bronbron23]

We have people on here playing mental gymnastics, who are woke, that swear someone that averages 27-7-7 his entire career is a bad and selfish teammate :lol

Stay woke friends :roll:

Nobody said anything about being a bad teammate or a selfish teammate. Just saying an assist can be as selfish as scoring.

[Uncle Drew]

Not really

:oldlol:

[Axe]

No, you didn’t write anything of sense as you never do. You just said a lot stupid ass nothing as usual.
😂😂😂

[sdot_thadon]

So Op, I'd like to know what the selfish assist equivalent of jacking up a contested jumper over 3 defenders is? Or A 40 point game with zero assists? Or looking off open teammates?

[Bronbron23]

So Op, I'd like to know what the selfish assist equivalent of jacking up a contested jumper over 3 defenders is? Or A 40 point game with zero assists? Or looking off open teammates?

there's no specific assist scenario thats the equivalent but selfish is selfish. If i chose to play in a system that revolves around me because i want to have the best stats possible then thats selfish because the best for the team would be to play more within a system that focuses on more movement and that gets more guys involved in the offence. Bron is apparently one of the most intelligent players ever so he must know this. Despite knowing this fact he still wants to dominate the ball so he can have his amazing stats. How is this any less selfish than anything jordan has done. Jordan was actually more unselfish because he sacrificed his stats for winning early in his career. Lebron did it i miami bjt he was never really happy with the sytem and not having the ball in his hands more. even though he had more success in that 4 year span than anywhere else

[sdot_thadon]

there's no specific assist scenario thats the equivalent but selfish is selfish. If i chose to play in a system that revolves around me because i want to have the best stats possible then thats selfish because the best for the team would be to play more within a system that focuses on more movement and that gets more guys involved in the offence. Bron is apparently one of the most intelligent players ever so he must know this. Despite knowing this fact he still wants to dominate the ball so he can have his amazing stats. How is this any less selfish than anything jordan has done. Jordan was actually more unselfish because he sacrificed his stats for winning early in his career. Lebron did it i miami bjt he was never really happy with the sytem and not having the ball in his hands more. even though he had more success in that 4 year span than anywhere else

So in other words just another dumb way to criticize Lebron other than the legitimate reasons? gotcha.

[Whoah10115]

Without reading page 2 I'm concluding that we're now talking about Westbrook?

I wouldn't call Westbrook selfish. He's got a chip on his shoulder and it often is the same chip that Kobe had post 2004 and that led me to not like him from then on, and more importantly affected his game. Isn't to say he didn't get better, but based on how he continued to improve he should have been even better. A lot of posturing.

Westbrook is guiltier than anyone of that, but that doesn't make him selfish or a bad teammate. And tho I don't like him in the slightest, he's one of our best players (Lillard better, cuz duh, just watch).

And to be fair to him, he should be playing a combo guard role with someone else playing the point. His numbers don't reflect his actual involving of teammates. The most natural I've seen him play was the 11/12 season, and he averaged under 6APG. I know that the Thunder had the worst APG in the league, but I wouldn't blame that on his approach, as they were setup as the best iso team I can recall. And Brooks designed a very good version of that offense, tho it was impossible to last.

Anyway, I don't know.

[RRR3]

Honestly LeBron could definitely put up better numbers than he does if he was as obsessed with stats as his haters act like he is. WB averaged a 32 PPG triple double on decent efficiency but we think LeBron couldn’t? Lol ok.

[STATUTORY]

anybody who's played basketball knows there is nothing more aggravating than the guy who dominates the ball for an entire possession only to pass to you for a bail out shot

it's a great way to maximize your assist totals but demoralizing and debilitating for your teammates, players who do this always wind up needing "moar help"

but like 3ball said, you have to be a very astute observer of the game to understand this point

[sdot_thadon]

TIL that John Stockton is perhaps the most selfish player to ever live?:biggums:

[warriorfan]

anybody who's played basketball knows there is nothing more aggravating than the guy who dominates the ball for an entire possession only to pass to you for a bail out shot

it's a great way to maximize your assist totals but demoralizing and debilitating for your teammates, players who do this always wind up needing "moar help"

but like 3ball said, you have to be a very astute observer of the game to understand this point

That, plus hogging uncontested defensive rebounds, taking possessions off defensively. There is a reason why LeBron has big counting stats with many disappointing losses.

[DoctorP]

TIL that John Stockton is perhaps the most selfish player to ever live?:biggums:

he should have spammed more 3s and played like NASHHHHHHHH

ZERO RINGS

[TheImmortal]

That, plus hogging uncontested defensive rebounds, taking possessions off defensively. There is a reason why LeBron has big counting stats with many disappointing losses.

Yup.. this is the LeBron system in a nutshell


Dribble the air out of the ball to manufacture an assist/ direct pass and not a hockey assist. If the player who receives the ball doesn't shoot = pout

Only LeBron can get credited for the assist to acquire glory fraudulent triple double

Then of course weak defensive rebounds/ gimmie boards are to be given to LeBron on a silver platter.. punk has lower offensive board stats than 6'4 190lb Kobe. LeBron is all about the easy route.. given, not earned.

[sdot_thadon]

Yup.. this is the LeBron system in a nutshell


Dribble the air out of the ball to manufacture an assist/ direct pass and not a hockey assist. If the player who receives the ball doesn't shoot = pout

Only LeBron can get credited for the assist to acquire glory fraudulent triple double

Then of course weak defensive rebounds/ gimmie boards are to be given to LeBron on a silver platter.. punk has lower offensive board stats than 6'4 190lb Kobe. LeBron is all about the easy route.. given, not earned.

Sure thats not the Magic system or the Stockton system? Sounds familiar aside from the Lebron flavored whine.