Michael Jordan was almost a Clipper TWICE.

[Clippersfan86]

The Clippers bad luck is something to behold. I can't think of another team with as much misfortune. The Bulls had a deal in place to send Jordan to the Clippers in 88, in his peak at 24 years old. Apparently Krause had agreed to a deal, but Reinsdorf veto'd it at the last second. Even before that, they almost struck a deal for Michael Jordan in 1984!

"In 1988, just four years into Jordan's career, the Bulls were interested in dealing him to the Clippers in exchange for the No. 1 and No. 6 picks in that year's draft, according to The Jordan Rules (h/t Bleacher Report). LA would have thrown in any three additional players as well, with Chicago getting to name its price.

Jordan was already a well-established star by that point. He was named an All-Star in each of his first four seasons and averaged a league-high 35.0 points and 3.2 steals per game during the 1987-1988 regular season, for which he was named League MVP."

https://www.si.com/nba/clippers/news/la-clippers-michael-jordan-trade


"According to the June 17, 1984 edition of the Chicago Tribune, the Bulls were talking with the Seattle SuperSonics about trading for center Jack Sikma before those talks ultimately broke down. When they did, they readjusted their focus and set their sights on Clippers big man Terry Cummings – a 6’9” power forward who was the second pick in the 1982 NBA Draft and averaged just over 23 points per game in his first two seasons in the league. Cummings was born and raised in Chicago – even going to Carver High School, which is roughly just 20 miles away from the United Center – before ultimately heading off to Chicago-based DePaul University for college. In a proposed three-team deal between the Bulls, Clippers, and Dallas Mavericks, Cummings would have been shipped off to Chicago and the third overall pick might have been coming back to Los Angeles. That deal, unfortunately, fell through and the Clippers were unsuccessful in their first attempt to possibly acquire Michael Jordan."


https://clipperholics.com/2015/09/19/know-michael-jordan-almost-clipper/


PS... another weird thing in Clips history? The Clippers and Celtics had a deal to completely swap franchises. The Celtics banners would of basically gone to the Clippers, Larry Bird and everything.

[Dom213]

The Clippers bad luck is something to behold. I can't think of another team with as much misfortune. The Bulls had a deal in place to send Jordan to the Clippers in 88, in his peak at 24 years old. Apparently Krause had agreed to a deal, but Reinsdorf veto'd it at the last second. Even before that, they almost struck a deal for Michael Jordan in 1984!

"In 1988, just four years into Jordan's career, the Bulls were interested in dealing him to the Clippers in exchange for the No. 1 and No. 6 picks in that year's draft, according to The Jordan Rules (h/t Bleacher Report). LA would have thrown in any three additional players as well, with Chicago getting to name its price.

Jordan was already a well-established star by that point. He was named an All-Star in each of his first four seasons and averaged a league-high 35.0 points and 3.2 steals per game during the 1987-1988 regular season, for which he was named League MVP."

https://www.si.com/nba/clippers/news/la-clippers-michael-jordan-trade


"According to the June 17, 1984 edition of the Chicago Tribune, the Bulls were talking with the Seattle SuperSonics about trading for center Jack Sikma before those talks ultimately broke down. When they did, they readjusted their focus and set their sights on Clippers big man Terry Cummings – a 6’9” power forward who was the second pick in the 1982 NBA Draft and averaged just over 23 points per game in his first two seasons in the league. Cummings was born and raised in Chicago – even going to Carver High School, which is roughly just 20 miles away from the United Center – before ultimately heading off to Chicago-based DePaul University for college. In a proposed three-team deal between the Bulls, Clippers, and Dallas Mavericks, Cummings would have been shipped off to Chicago and the third overall pick might have been coming back to Los Angeles. That deal, unfortunately, fell through and the Clippers were unsuccessful in their first attempt to possibly acquire Michael Jordan."


https://clipperholics.com/2015/09/19/know-michael-jordan-almost-clipper/


PS... another weird thing in Clips history? The Clippers and Celtics had a deal to completely swap franchises. The Celtics banners would of basically gone to the Clippers, Larry Bird and everything.
What was the reasoning for the Celtics swap? From when they were the Braves?

[iamgine]

I don't think the 1988 one was serious. There's no way any team owner would agree to that.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I don't think the 1988 one was serious. There's no way any team owner would agree to that.

There is no possible trade package in Clippers history worth 1988 Michael Jordan. Chris Paul, Kawhi Leonard and Blake Griffin.. answer is still no.

[Roundball_Rock]

I don't think the 1988 one was serious. There's no way any team owner would agree to that.

The reasoning for the Clippers was they needed star power to establish a foothold in the LA market. For the Bulls they then believed that MJ's playing style (i.e., ball hogging) was a losing style. Collins told management they couldn't win with Jordan (not mentioned in the "doc" of course :lol ). Reinsdorf agreed, saying you needed defense and team play to win and the latter was not possible with MJ around.

Ultimately Reinsdorf viewed MJ as untradeable but fan backlash was a big factor in his thinking (MJ brought in a lot of dollars) partly because of his existing issues with threatening to move the White Sox.

The book suggested the plan was to use the picks to draft Rik Smits and Mitch Richmond and then use the assets (and one of Oakley or Grant) to trade for a point guard like Kevin Johnson, who Krause coveted. So the Bulls' starting lineup could have been:

PF Grant (since they ultimately chose Grant over Oakley)
SF Pippen
C Smits
SG Richmond
PG K. Johnson

How many titles does that team win?

All this is in The Jordan Rules starts on page 106. The author covered the Bulls back then for the Chicago Tribune so he wasn't some random guy without sources.

[Real Men Wear Green]

How many titles does that team win?
None. In the 90s the league belonged to Michael Jordan.

[Roundball_Rock]

None. In the 90s the league belonged to Michael Jordan.

Possibly but in this scenario Jordan would be going to a gutted Clippers roster so even if they built a contender it would take a while to do so. We also have to factor in if Jordan retires anyway. In that scenario Pippen, Richmond, Johnson, Smits, Grant would all be in their primes in 94' and 95' and presumably the favorites each of those years.

[LukeWalton]

Kobe was also nearly a Clipper in 2007

but Jerry West talked him out of it..

and look where Jerry is now

https://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/1020/pg2_e_kobe_clippers_576.jpg

[iamgine]

The reasoning for the Clippers was they needed star power to establish a foothold in the LA market. For the Bulls they then believed that MJ's playing style (i.e., ball hogging) was a losing style. Collins told management they couldn't win with Jordan (not mentioned in the "doc" of course :lol ). Reinsdorf agreed, saying you needed defense and team play to win and the latter was not possible with MJ around.

Ultimately Reinsdorf viewed MJ as untradeable but fan backlash was a big factor in his thinking (MJ brought in a lot of dollars) partly because of his existing issues with threatening to move the White Sox.

The book suggested the plan was to use the picks to draft Rik Smits and Mitch Richmond and then use the assets (and one of Oakley or Grant) to trade for a point guard like Kevin Johnson, who Krause coveted. So the Bulls' starting lineup could have been:

PF Grant (since they ultimately chose Grant over Oakley)
SF Pippen
C Smits
SG Richmond
PG K. Johnson

How many titles does that team win?

All this is in The Jordan Rules starts on page 106. The author covered the Bulls back then for the Chicago Tribune so he wasn't some random guy without sources.
Bolded is why no owner would seriously ever let go of someone like Jordan. Same with Lebron or mid-00 Kobe. Unless they asked to be traded.

They couldn't get Richmond anyways. He was picked #5.

[Roundball_Rock]

Bolded is why no owner would seriously ever let go of someone like Jordan. Same with Lebron or mid-00 Kobe. Unless they asked to be traded.

They couldn't get Richmond anyways. He was picked #5.

Good points.

Yeah you are right Richmond went going #5 so unless they moved up another spot they wouldn't get him (presumably if they did the deal and wanted him they could assess where he would go and trade up like they did to go from #8 to #5 for Pippen because they knew he would get picked at #6 or #7 otherwise). They would have the #1, #6 pick and 3 new players cherry picked from the Clippers so plenty of assets to work with (Smits ultimately went #2 BTW).

The book talked about them wanting a PG and mentioned Rod Strickland. He would still be on the board since he went #19.

[SATAN]

There is no possible trade package in Clippers history worth 1988 Michael Jordan. Chris Paul, Kawhi Leonard and Blake Griffin.. answer is still no.

Can't agree with this. It needs context. It could be a GREAT trade for the Bulls.

[SATAN]

None. In the 90s the league belonged to Michael Jordan.

Yet he had to ask Stern for permission to come back? Strange times indeed..

[Akeem34TheDream]

They wouldnt have won anything anyway with that owner.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Possibly but in this scenario Jordan would be going to a gutted Clippers roster so even if they built a contender it would take a while to do so. We also have to factor in if Jordan retires anyway. In that scenario Pippen, Richmond, Johnson, Smits, Grant would all be in their primes in 94' and 95' and presumably the favorites each of those years.

League history is full of talented teams that never won. I will concede that Sterling probably has Jordan sterling out the arena with no supporting cast, greatest player ever can't overcome worst owner ever. But it's undeniable that no one the Bulls get back is filling Jordan's role.

[FireDavidKahn]

Donald Sterling and MJ together?

MJ would get charged with murder within a week.

[Roundball_Rock]

League history is full of talented teams that never won. I will concede that Sterling probably has Jordan sterling out the arena with no supporting cast, greatest player ever can't overcome worst owner ever. But it's undeniable that no one the Bulls get back is filling Jordan's role.

True and we never know how teams work out on the court versus on paper. I just think we saw a team win with Otis Thorpe as their second best player in the middle of the 90's as well as 4 non-Jordan teams that all had less talent than this one.

This team, if they execute the scenario perfectly, would have all-stars at every position all with overlapping primes. They certainly look better on paper than other 90's contenders like the Knicks, Jazz, Pacers, Rockets, Blazers, etc. but there is the Jordan factor and how quickly they build a contender around him (although this was the Clippers who were the worst franchise under Sterling :oldlol: ). I suspect Jordan demands a trade and bounces from the Clippers after 2-3 years of Sterling's BS.

[Clippersfan86]

What was the reasoning for the Celtics swap? From when they were the Braves?


http://www.alejandrogaitan.com/celtics-braves-trade/

Larry Bird was going to San Diego with the Clippers.

https://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/22/freaky-friday-n-b-a-style-when-the-clippers-were-the-celtics/

"That’s because, in the strictest of strictest interpretations of the law — not to be confused with what actually goes on in the N.B.A. — the Clippers are, in reality, the Boston Celtics. The owner, Donald Sterling, longed to model his franchise after the Celtics (even though every move he made basically killed that plan). Well, he got his wish.

We’re talking legalese and very fine print here, and the story goes all the way back to 1978. That year, the owner of the Celtics was a Hollywood guy by the name of Irv Levin. He wanted to move the team to southern California, but he knew the N.B.A. would never allow that to happen.

So Levin did the next best thing. He convinced the owner of the Buffalo Braves, the Kentucky Fried Chicken magnate John Y. Brown, to swap franchises.

“My understanding, as best as I can remember, is that the current Celtics team is a successor to the Buffalo Braves,’’ Russ Granik, former deputy commissioner of the N.B.A., said in a telephone conversation on Tuesday. He was the N.B.A.’s assistant general counsel in 1978.

And that would mean that the current Clippers team is the successor to the Boston Celtics?

“Yes,’’ Granik said. “In a strictly legal sense.”

But in the N.B.A. world, none of that legal mumbo-jumbo matters. The swap merely meant that the Celtics were now in the hands of a new owner.

The franchise swap was approved by the N.B.A.’s Board of Governors by a 21-1 vote. The teams swapped rosters, but not before Brown and Levin completed a trade that involved several players, including future Hall of Famer Nate Archibald. Levin moved the Braves to San Diego, where they became the Clippers.

The business entity that owned the Boston Celtics in 1978 moved to San Diego and became the business entity that owned the Clippers. When deferred compensation checks were mailed out to the likes of former Celtics player and coach Tom Heinsohn and others, they were from the Clippers’ bank account.

Levin later sold the team to Sterling, who moved the team to Los Angeles in 1984."

[Clippersfan86]

True and we never know how teams work out on the court versus on paper. I just think we saw a team win with Otis Thorpe as their second best player in the middle of the 90's as well as 4 non-Jordan teams that all had less talent than this one.

This team, if they execute the scenario perfectly, would have all-stars at every position all with overlapping primes. They certainly look better on paper than other 90's contenders like the Knicks, Jazz, Pacers, Rockets, Blazers, etc. but there is the Jordan factor and how quickly they build a contender around him (although this was the Clippers who were the worst franchise under Sterling :oldlol: ). I suspect Jordan demands a trade and bounces from the Clippers after 2-3 years of Sterling's BS.

Honestly given our many fortunes that ALMOST went right, I can't help but feel if an owner like Ballmer bought us 30-40 years ago, we've have multiple rings. So many close ones. Kobe almost signing, Jordan twice, young+peak Larry Bird etc. I'm not talking about draft misses either. These were hand shake deals already that got blocked by various things or vetoed.