Analysis of the shots LeBron James takes

[3ball]

NBA.com... 94% of Lebron's shots outside of 10 feet are either "open" (4-6 feet from closest defender) or "wide open" (6+ feet), compared to 77.1% (https://stats.nba.com/player/201935/shots-dash/) for Harden, 82.0% (https://stats.nba.com/player/203078/shots-dash/) for Bradley Beal, 77.8% (https://stats.nba.com/player/202695/shots-dash/) for Kawhi, and 66.6% (https://stats.nba.com/player/201142/shots-dash/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) for KDGoat (in 2019).

this shows a massive lack of jumpshooting skill compared to his peers.

There's no defense for guys hitting contested jumpers, so they require double-teams - Lebron doesn't even attempt contested jumpers, so that explains why he doesn't get doubled.

[LAmbruh]

no pip

[LAmbruh]

no chip

[AlternativeAcc.]

you're rusty bro

[3ball]

you're rusty bro



Actually, the fact that lebron doesn't take contested jumpers explains a lot

In addition to his weak shooting not commanding doubles, Lebron is a long-dribbler, which Stan Van Gundy said he preferred rather than doubling and facing ball-movement.. Ultimately, coaches like Stan Van Gundy and Steve Kerr don't double weak-shooting, long-dribblers like Lebron, which allows the defense to stay at home and shut down teammates.

Lebron's suboptimal style (can't command a double) explains why MJ won more with less - i.e. lebron lost to #4 SRS Magic despite having the #3 defense and getting 18 on 38% from Mo, while MJ beat the #1 SRS with just the #11 defense and 15 on 40% from Pippen in 89'.





you're rusty bro



Lebron's weak-shooting and long-dribbling style of scoring explains why he never beat a good team with scoring, aka averaging 35+.. too much predictable, long dribbling and not enough hot/quick-hitter scoring that instills panic/adjustments - so the defense can rest and be fresher for offense, aka win attrition battle.. Bron's weak-shooting, ball-dominance loses the attrition battle against championship ball movement/brand

[red1]

welcome back 3ball. its a pleasure to have you back. :cheers:


I see you're going right back to the 2009 cavs to start. can you answer one simple question for me?


who is the better player - 3-peat scottie pippen or mo williams?


I do recall some lengthy discussion on this subject.

[Stanley Kobrick]

yes chips yes dip

[warriorfan]

3ball with another irrefutable thread. All that’s left for LeBron stans to do is throw tantrums. :oldlol:

[FireDavidKahn]

So he only takes good shots?

High IQ!

[3ball]

welcome back 3ball. its a pleasure to have you back. :cheers:


I see you're going right back to the 2009 cavs to start. can you answer one simple question for me?


who is the better player - 3-peat scottie pippen or mo williams?


I do recall some lengthy discussion on this subject.
Pippen from 1990 onwards > 09' Mo

But in 1989, MJ would've beat the Pistons with the Cavs #3 defense and Mo Williams' superior offense.

And in 2009, MJ beats the #4 SRS Magic with the #3 defense and 18 on 38% from Mo, since MJ beat the #1 SRS with just the #11 defense and 15 on 40% from Pippen in 89'.

MJ always did more with less because his jumper required double-teams, which frees up teammates, and his off-ball game allowed great ball movement

[Axe]

So what happened to your HoopsNY account?

Oops. My bad.

[red1]

3ball with another irrefutable thread. All that’s left for LeBron stans to do is throw tantrums. :oldlol:

please relax brother warriorsfan.


we know its been a rough decade since you and jabbar started the dingo thing - this thread isnt about childish finals MVP-less players.


https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6gEfoHWs202X8nio/giphy.gif

[red1]

Pippen > Mo from 1990 onwards
correct 3ball. thank you.

I am also going to get you to acknowledge that lebron is in fact indisputably top-5 as you used to argue that he isnt top 15.




But in 1989, MJ would've beat the Pistons with the 09' Cavs #3 defense and Mo Williams' superior offense.

And MJ beats the #4 SRS Magic in 09' with the #3 defense and 18 on 38% from Mo, since MJ beat the #1 SRS in 89' with just the #11 defense and 15 on 40% from Pippen.

MJ always did more with less because his jumper required double-teams, which frees up teammates, and his off-ball game allowed great ball movement
:roll:


did you actually watch the series?


nope. absolutely not. mo williams was putrid in that series. MJ on those cavs would absolutely not have beaten that magic team.

that version of lebron in that series was as good as he was any of the years that he won the championship. so 2012, 2013, 2016. and he was hitting his jumpshots that year and in that series, rendering your other point irrelevant.

the cavs just couldnt guard the magic and mj wouldnt fix that. the magic had THREE different mismatches that they were exploiting. dwight abusing Z, 6'9 rashard and 6'9 hedo shooting over 6'3 delonte. who was their second best perimeter defender. lebron could only guard one at a time.

even if mj shut down one of the two between hedo and rashard, it wouldnt make a difference because all 3 players were scorching. dwight finally had someone that he could score on for the only time in his life. we know he sucks on offense.

not to mention mj would be the only scorer carrying the entire offensive load - mo williams was a complete no-show. 40ppg wouldnt cut it.

when the magic played the lakers in the next round in the finals, the magic had ZERO mismatches that they could exploit. because ariza was a capable defender and gasol and odom were both mobile and long, and they destroyed dwight. and then kobe and fisher outclutched them. much better team than the 09 cavs.

every single version of mj would've gotten destroyed playing with delonte west and mo williams and anderson varejao and old Z.

mj hasnt won a single thing without the bulls team that won 55 games without him. I doubt those guys on the cavs would win 25 games, let alone 55 games.

[Vino24]

correct 3ball. thank you.

I am also going to get you to acknowledge that lebron is in fact indisputably top-5 as you used to argue that he isnt top 15.




:roll:


did you actually watch the series?


nope. absolutely not. mo williams was putrid in that series. MJ on those cavs would absolutely not have beaten that magic team.

that version of lebron in that series was as good as he was any of the years that he won the championship. so 2012, 2013, 2016. and he was hitting his jumpshots that year and in that series, rendering your other point irrelevant.

the cavs just couldnt guard the magic and mj wouldnt fix that. the magic had THREE different mismatches that they were exploiting. dwight abusing Z, 6'9 rashard and 6'9 hedo shooting over 6'3 delonte. who was their second best perimeter defender. lebron could only guard one at a time.

even if mj shut down one of the two between hedo and rashard, it wouldnt make a difference because all 3 players were scorching. dwight finally had someone that he could score on for the only time in his life. we know he sucks on offense.

not to mention mj would be the only scorer carrying the entire offensive load - mo williams was a complete no-show. 40ppg wouldnt cut it.

when the magic played the lakers in the next round in the finals, the magic had ZERO mismatches that they could exploit. because ariza was a capable defender and gasol and odom were both mobile and long, and they destroyed dwight. and then kobe and fisher outclutched them. much better team than the 09 cavs.

every single version of mj would've gotten destroyed playing with delonte west and mo williams and anderson varejao and old Z.

mj hasnt won a single thing without the bulls team that won 55 games without him. I doubt those guys on the cavs would win 25 games, let alone 55 games.

Irrefutable. Well thought out post. Keep 3ball busy post lengthy replies

[red1]

Irrefutable. Well thought out post. Keep 3ball busy post lengthy replies

this discussion is purely for my own entertainment. 2009 lebron is one of the most complete players to ever touch a basketball in NBA history. dominant in every single aspect of the game and might in fact be my favorite version of lbj. probably the most athletic human being of all time as well.

[LAmbruh]

correct 3ball. thank you.

I am also going to get you to acknowledge that lebron is in fact indisputably top-5 as you used to argue that he isnt top 15.




:roll:


did you actually watch the series?


nope. absolutely not. mo williams was putrid in that series. MJ on those cavs would absolutely not have beaten that magic team.

that version of lebron in that series was as good as he was any of the years that he won the championship. so 2012, 2013, 2016. and he was hitting his jumpshots that year and in that series, rendering your other point irrelevant.

the cavs just couldnt guard the magic and mj wouldnt fix that. the magic had THREE different mismatches that they were exploiting. dwight abusing Z, 6'9 rashard and 6'9 hedo shooting over 6'3 delonte. who was their second best perimeter defender. lebron could only guard one at a time.

even if mj shut down one of the two between hedo and rashard, it wouldnt make a difference because all 3 players were scorching. dwight finally had someone that he could score on for the only time in his life. we know he sucks on offense.

not to mention mj would be the only scorer carrying the entire offensive load - mo williams was a complete no-show. 40ppg wouldnt cut it.

when the magic played the lakers in the next round in the finals, the magic had ZERO mismatches that they could exploit. because ariza was a capable defender and gasol and odom were both mobile and long, and they destroyed dwight. and then kobe and fisher outclutched them. much better team than the 09 cavs.

every single version of mj would've gotten destroyed playing with delonte west and mo williams and anderson varejao and old Z.

mj hasnt won a single thing without the bulls team that won 55 games without him. I doubt those guys on the cavs would win 25 games, let alone 55 games.

monumental ether


Red1 showing no regards for 3balls life (again) (and again)

[Axe]

this discussion is purely for my own entertainment. 2009 lebron is one of the most complete players to ever touch a basketball in NBA history. dominant in every single aspect of the game and might in fact be my favorite version of lbj. probably the most athletic human being of all time as well.
Like, how many times have you already said that?

[3ball]

nope. absolutely not. mo williams was putrid in that series. MJ on those cavs would absolutely not have beaten that magic team.



Mo was bad in the 09' ECF, but MJ never lost with his sidekick getting 18 on 38% and the #3 team defense

MJ always won with that..

The 89' bulls only had the #11 defense and 15 on 40% from Pippen, yet they beat the #1 SRS team in the league.. so they would demolish the #4 SRS Magic with the #3 defense and 18 on 38% from Mo





that version of lebron in that series was as good as he was any of the years that he won the championship. so 2012, 2013, 2016. and he was hitting his jumpshots that year and in that series, rendering your other point irrelevant.



09' Lebron had poor clutch stats in those ECF and didn't know how to win like he did in later years.. So no, Lebron didn't play as well in 09' as he did in later years

He shot 30% on jumpers in the 4th, so his jumper and clutch sucked - that's why the Cavs were down 1-2 when all 3 games were 1-possession games... MJ would've been up 2-1 or 3-0 because his jumper would've commanded doubles and his off-ball game yielded better ball movement





the cavs just couldnt guard the magic and mj wouldnt fix that. the magic had THREE different mismatches that they were exploiting. dwight abusing Z, 6'9 rashard and 6'9 hedo shooting over 6'3 delonte. who was their second best perimeter defender. lebron could only guard one at a time. even if mj shut down one of the two it wouldnt make a difference because all 3 players were scorching. and mj would be the only scorer carrying the entire offensive load - mo williams was a complete no-show.



Hedo was worse than Mo in that series..

the Cavs lost because Lebron guarded Courtney Lee instead of Rashard or Hedo, and because lebron couldn't command a double to free up teammates





every single version of mj would've gotten destroyed playing with delonte west and mo williams and anderson varejao and old Z.



Not in Lebron's weak conference - Dwight made the Finals with a weak cast so Lebron has no excuse..

his weak-shooting, long dribbles simply failed to command double-teams or adjustments





mj hasnt won a single thing without the bulls team that won 55 games without him. I doubt those guys on the cavs would win 25 games, let alone 55 games.
The 94' Bulls had a 3-peat brand, so they won 55 with only 22 ppg from Pippen..

Otoh, the 88' Bulls needed 35 ppg and dpoy from MJ to win 50 games because they were building a 3-peat brand and had shit teamwork.. the cast was otherwise equal to 94', but brand was in infancy stage

[red1]

Like, how many times have you already said that?

good. and Im going to keep saying it.



starting a sentence with "Like," is very feminine by the way. makes you sound like an airhead. just an FYI.

[3ball]

good. and Im going to keep saying it.



starting a sentence with "Like," is very feminine by the way. makes you sound like an airhead. just an FYI.

09' Lebron wasn't nearly as clutch as later years, and his jumper was worse too

And his overall game was extremely basic and predictable, far more than later years

So no - 09' Lebron was athletic, but not the best version of Bron.. not even close tbh.. he had no clue how to win - the most predictable, basic version of lebron, with the weakest clutch and jumper that he's ever had.. he was FAR better player in later years, like 16' or 18'

Heck, the guy lost 3 times in a row as the favorite from 09-11'... So it wasn't just 09'... He simply had flaws in his game.

[red1]

Mo was bad in the 09' ECF, but MJ never lost with his sidekick getting 18 on 38% and the #3 team defense

MJ always won with that..

The 89' bulls only had the #11 defense and 15 on 40% from Pippen, yet they beat the #1 SRS team in the league.. so they would demolish the #4 SRS Magic with the #3 defense and 18 on 38% from Mo



09' Lebron had poor clutch stats in those ECF and didn't know how to win like he did in later years.. So no, Lebron didn't play as well in 09' as he did in later years

He shot 30% on jumpers in the 4th, so his jumper and clutch ssucked - that's why the Cavs were down 1-2 when all 3 games were 1-possession games... MJ would've been up 2-1 or 3-0 because his jumper would've commanded doubles and his off-ball game yielded better ball movement



Hedo was worse than Mo in that series..

the Cavs lost because Lebron guarded Courtney Lee instead of Rashard or Hedo, and because lebron couldn't command a double to free up teammates



Not in Lebron's weak conference - Dwight made the Finals with a weak cast so Lebron has no excuse




mj hasnt won a single thing without the bulls team that won 55 games without him. I doubt those guys on the cavs would win 25 games, let alone 55 games.
The 94' Bulls had a 3-peat brand, so they won 55 with only 22 ppg from Pippen..

Otoh, the 88' Bulls needed 35 ppg and dpoy from MJ to win 50 games because they were building a 3-peat brand..
I appreciate you 3ball because you showed me that lebron is actually the GOAT, if not damn near it. every criticism you've ever had flopped.


FYI. I have mike as #1 and I have lebron already as the 2nd GOAT and the GOAT of the modern era. meaning if he retired today he's already #2 on the all-time rankings.


and you drove my point home, my point that basketball is a team sport and that jordan never did shit without a great team. that applies for every champion in NBA history.


you on the other hand act like mike won 6 championship with zero support, and did it against worldbeaters. I'm obviously right here as well. it IS a team sport and MJ wouldnt have won without great teammates.


you said scottie was the worst allstar of all time and a fake allstar.


we all already know that lebron is undeniable top-5 GOAT. its plain as day. I just need him to win so I can say we saw undeniable greatness, even in a polite discussion with a hater.


lebron has already entertained us long enough. winning is the only thing that matters. one more championship will do it. will completely control the narrative I mean.


you've already capitulated on one of your major points, that mo williams was better than scottie and that mike would've molded him into a champion. I'm glad that you agree with me now. that was already a ridiculous assertion back then to anyone thinking with a clear mind.


you're obviously wrong on this subject as well. michael jordan absolutely would not have won against the magic if you swapped in any version of mike in NBA history with lebron on a 1 to 1 basis. that team was too flawed.


and to reiterate my point - I'm going to be repeating this a lot by the way - michael jordan did not win a single championship without the team that won 55-games without him.

[Axe]

good. and Im going to keep saying it.



starting a sentence with "Like," is very feminine by the way. makes you sound like an airhead. just an FYI.
You're just beyond delusional. Oh, and you're the one who's actually used to type like a woman here, with all those cussing words and crap.

[3ball]

I appreciate you 3ball because you showed me that lebron is actually the GOAT, if not damn near it. every criticism you've ever had flopped. FYI. I have mike as 1. and I have lebron already as the 2nd GOAT and the GOAT of the modern era.

and you drove my point home that basketball is a team sport and that jordan never did shit without a great team. that applies for every champion in NBA history.

you on the other hand act like mike won 6 championship with zero support against worldbeaters. I'm obviously right here as well.

we all already know that lebron is undeniable top-5 GOAT. its plain as day. I just need him to win so I can say we saw undeniable greatness, even in a polite discussion with a hater.

lebron has already entertained us long enough. winning is the only thing that matters. one more championship will do it. will completely control the narrative I mean.

you've already capitulated on one of your major points, that mo williams was better than scottie and that mike would've molded him into a champion. I'm glad that you agree with me now. that was already a ridiculous assertion back then to anyone thinking with a clear mind.

you've obviously wrong on this subject as well. michael jordan absolutely would not have won against the magic if you swapped in any version of mike in NBA history with lebron on a 1 to 1 basis. that team was too flawed.

and to reiterate my point - I'm going to be repeating this a lot by the way - michael jordan did not win a single championship with the team that won 55-games without him.
The reason MJ is #1 in:


- scoring (PPG)
- efficiency rating (PER)
- boxscores (BPM)
- winning contribution (WS/48)
- 5 of the top 7 VORP seasons
- clutch


Is because he had the least help... 2 + 2 = 4

If a guy wins with the best stats and clutch, then his help was the least - and by "stats", I'm mainly talking ppg (because I know you'll cite 2016, but lebron only averaged 29 PPG and had an equal scoring partner that closed)

[red1]

09' Lebron wasn't nearly as clutch as later years, and his jumper was worse too

And his overall game was extremely basic and predictable, far more than later years

So no - 09' Lebron was athletic, but not the best version of Bron.. not even close tbh.. he had no clue how to win - the most predictable, basic version of lebron, with the weakest clutch and jumper that he's ever had.. he was FAR better player in later years, like 16' or 18'

Heck, the guy lost 3 times in a row as the favorite from 09-11'... So it wasn't just 09'... He simply had flaws in his game.

false. he was already as clutch as it gets.

[red1]

You're just beyond delusional. Oh, and you're the one who's actually used to type like a woman here, with all those cussing words and crap.

dude why do you keep following me around? I dont care about your opinion.


Im having a discussion with my good friend 3ball. I need to checkmate his ass and get a proper ranking before the corona takes him out.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/58/67/b7/5867b746b7bab9fe26f2219ad91306fa.jpg

[3ball]

false. he was already as clutch as it gets.
1-2 deficit when all 3 games were 1-possession games

=

Not clutch



So obviously, lebron didn't hit enough shots when it mattered down the stretch

And this makes sense - down the stretch of tight games (last 5 within 5), Lebron is 41% on 3.0 attempts per game for his playoff career, compared to 47% on 3.6 attempts for old MJ in 97' and 98' (20% more clutch attempts on better efficiency)..

So MJ's superior clutch would've had a 2-1 or 3-0 lead.. he never lost to a team as bad as Dwight's Magic

[Axe]

dude why do you keep following me around? I dont care about your opinion.


Im having a discussion with my good friend 3ball. I need to checkmate his ass and get a proper ranking before the corona takes him out.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/58/67/b7/5867b746b7bab9fe26f2219ad91306fa.jpg
Probably to show the troll out of you.

[red1]

The reason MJ is #1 in:


- scoring (PPG)
- efficiency rating (PER)
- boxscores (BPM)
- winning contribution (WS/48)
- 5 of the top 7 VORP seasons
- clutch


Is because he had the least help... 2 + 2 = 4

If a guy wins with the best stats and clutch, then his help was the least - and by "stats", I'm mainly talking ppg (because I know you'll cite 2016, but lebron only averaged 29 PPG and had an equal scoring partner that closed)

FYI Im sorry for being rude to you 3ball Im going to treat you kindly from now on.


you realize your clinging to stats has backfired right? and the narratives that you use?


it could not possibly have backfired more spectacularly my beloved 3ball.


look at the allstar game this year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_NBA_All-Star_Game


do you notice something?


1 all star on the cavaliers (lebron)
3 all stars on the warriors (steph, klay, dray)


lebron won the finals MVP that year leading both teams in every single stat. stats, like you like to count.


lead BOTH teams. every. single. major. stat. with zero allstars.


you see how easy it is to twist that narrative?


you said lebron could never win a finals MVP. without a stacked team. too ball-dominant.


and then he won with zero allstars like you try to claim mike did by calling pippen a fake allstar. and then lebron also won against 3 allstars like you also like to count.


thats literally the nightmare scenario for you. and draymond suspension and buh buh kyrie wont save you.


and you want to know the single funniest thing about this all? the greatest irony in it all?


the main criticism against mj before he won was that he was too ball-dominant. the exact. same. thing. that you used to argue.


can you bend the knee and please acknowledge that you were wrong? undisputed top-5 of all-time? at the very least top-10 if you're a wild, raging hater?

[red1]

1-2 deficit when all 3 games were 1-possession games

=

Not clutch



So obviously, lebron didn't hit enough shots when it mattered down the stretch

And this makes sense - down the stretch of tight games (last 5 within 5), Lebron is 41% on 3.0 attempts per game for his playoff career, compared to 47% on 3.6 attempts for old MJ in 97' and 98' (20% more clutch attempts on better efficiency)..

So MJ's superior clutch would've had a 2-1 or 3-0 lead.. he never lost to a team as bad as Dwight's Magic

you didnt watch the series bro. its very evident.

go watch it and then come back and share your thoughts on how mike would've defended dwight.

[LAL]

FYI Im sorry for being rude to you 3ball Im going to treat you kindly from now on.


you realize your clinging to stats has backfired right? and the narratives that you use?


it could not possibly have backfired more spectacularly my beloved 3ball.


look at the allstar game this year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_NBA_All-Star_Game


do you notice something?


1 all star on the cavaliers (lebron)
3 all stars on the warriors (steph, klay, dray)


lebron won the finals MVP that year leading both teams in every single stat. BOTH teams. with zero allstars.


you see how easy it is to twist that narrative?


you said lebron could never win a finals MVP. without a stacked team. too ball-dominant.


and then he won with zero allstars like you try to say by calling pippen a fake allstar, and then won against 3 allstars like you also like to count.


thats literally the nightmare scenario for you. and draymond suspension and buh buh kyrie wont save you.


and you want to know the single funniest thing about this all? the greatest irony in it all?


the main criticism against mj before he won was that he was too ball-dominant. the exact. same. thing. that you used to argue.


can you bend the knee and please acknowledge that you were wrong? undisputed top-5 of all-time? at the very least top-10 if you're a wild, raging hater?
You should, he's spanking you.

[red1]

Probably to show the troll out of you.

no problem. just stop following me, cool? you were literally begging for a response in the other thread. leave me alone already.

[red1]

You should, he's spanking you.

care to share how? :oldlol:

[Axe]

no problem. just stop following me, cool? you were literally begging for a response in the other thread. leave me alone already.
Sorry but i just can't stop wondering why you couldn't be banished so easily.

[red1]

what does that even mean.

[FireDavidKahn]

correct 3ball. Thank you.

I am also going to get you to acknowledge that lebron is in fact indisputably top-5 as you used to argue that he isnt top 15.




:roll:


Did you actually watch the series?


Nope. absolutely not. Mo williams was putrid in that series. Mj on those cavs would absolutely not have beaten that magic team.

That version of lebron in that series was as good as he was any of the years that he won the championship. So 2012, 2013, 2016. And he was hitting his jumpshots that year and in that series, rendering your other point irrelevant.

The cavs just couldnt guard the magic and mj wouldnt fix that. The magic had three different mismatches that they were exploiting. Dwight abusing z, 6'9 rashard and 6'9 hedo shooting over 6'3 delonte. Who was their second best perimeter defender. Lebron could only guard one at a time.

Even if mj shut down one of the two between hedo and rashard, it wouldnt make a difference because all 3 players were scorching. Dwight finally had someone that he could score on for the only time in his life. We know he sucks on offense.

Not to mention mj would be the only scorer carrying the entire offensive load - mo williams was a complete no-show. 40ppg wouldnt cut it.

When the magic played the lakers in the next round in the finals, the magic had zero mismatches that they could exploit. Because ariza was a capable defender and gasol and odom were both mobile and long, and they destroyed dwight. And then kobe and fisher outclutched them. Much better team than the 09 cavs.

Every single version of mj would've gotten destroyed playing with delonte west and mo williams and anderson varejao and old z.

Mj hasnt won a single thing without the bulls team that won 55 games without him. I doubt those guys on the cavs would win 25 games, let alone 55 games.

911, i need an ambulance!

[aj1987]

'09 LeBron wasn't clutch? Dude literally hit a game winning buzzer beater in that series.

Someone put this retard, 3ball, out of his misery. :facepalm

[Smook A.]

LeBron's a smart man when it comes to shot-selection, that's why his FG% is always so high. There are times where he'll hit extremely tough shots and other times where he'll mainly be getting his points from the paint if his shot is off. Regardless, he knows how to put up big points on an efficient percentage on a consistent basis

[Uncle Drew]

No Pip, no chip. 1-9.

[FromDowntown]

FYI Im sorry for being rude to you 3ball Im going to treat you kindly from now on.


you realize your clinging to stats has backfired right? and the narratives that you use?


it could not possibly have backfired more spectacularly my beloved 3ball.


look at the allstar game this year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_NBA_All-Star_Game


do you notice something?


1 all star on the cavaliers (lebron)
3 all stars on the warriors (steph, klay, dray)


lebron won the finals MVP that year leading both teams in every single stat. stats, like you like to count.


lead BOTH teams. every. single. major. stat. with zero allstars.


you see how easy it is to twist that narrative?


you said lebron could never win a finals MVP. without a stacked team. too ball-dominant.


and then he won with zero allstars like you try to claim mike did by calling pippen a fake allstar. and then lebron also won against 3 allstars like you also like to count.


thats literally the nightmare scenario for you. and draymond suspension and buh buh kyrie wont save you.


and you want to know the single funniest thing about this all? the greatest irony in it all?


the main criticism against mj before he won was that he was too ball-dominant. the exact. same. thing. that you used to argue.


can you bend the knee and please acknowledge that you were wrong? undisputed top-5 of all-time? at the very least top-10 if you're a wild, raging hater?

That does it

[Phoenix]

Lamebruh stops licking his Bron poster fast enough to respond almost instantly. Impressive. :lol

[Manny98]

How dare LeBron only taking smart shots :mad:

[Turbo Slayer]

Look at the title of the thread. :roll: :biggums::roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

Lmao at the title change

[Axe]

Look at the title of the thread. :roll: :biggums::roll:
Rofl 🤣

[Turbo Slayer]

Rofl ��

:roll:

[FireDavidKahn]

Look at the title of the thread. :roll: :biggums::roll:

Which mod did that?:roll::roll::roll:

[3ball]

Which mod did that?:roll::roll::roll:
Real Boys Wear Panties did it

It kills him when I post hard data showing the truth and exposing lebron.. imagine the level of g*yness it takes to change the title.. I exposed his inner junior high girl

In this case, he's mad that Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers. Contested jumpers are the apex of basketball skill - there's no defense for a player who hits them, thus requiring double-teams - Lebron can't even ATTEMPT them, so teams don't need to make adjustments and play straight up defense (the easiest kind, which locks down teammates)...

Easier defense leaves more capacity for offense, so opponents win the attrition battle and require lebron to need more help than other stars needed.. Vastly overrated.. Like this virus... Like Hillary was.. Like all the schemes to soil Trump.. Mainstream thinking is just wrong.. about pretty much everything

[Wally450]

So he only takes good shots?

High IQ!

This along with red's posts are the most well thought out posts in this thread.

3ball is getting on LeBron for not taking contested shots... what??

That's like going at any point guard for not taking shots in the paint with a big there.

[Real Men Wear Green]

You mada thread criticizing a player for practicing good shot selection. Unfortunately the edit I wanted to make is too long for a thread title so this is the best I could do for you.

[aj1987]

Real Boys Wear Panties did it

It kills him when I post hard data showing the truth and exposing lebron.. imagine the level of g*yness it takes to change the title.. I exposed his inner junior high girl

In this case, he's mad that Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers. Contested jumpers are the apex of basketball skill - there's no defense for a player who hits them, thus requiring double-teams - Lebron can't even ATTEMPT them, so teams don't need to make adjustments and play straight up defense (the easiest kind, which locks down teammates)...

Easier defense leaves more capacity for offense, so opponents win the attrition battle and require lebron to need more help than other stars needed.. Vastly overrated.. Like this virus... Like Hillary was.. Like all the schemes to soil Trump.. Mainstream thinking is just wrong.. about pretty much everything

No, you rodent brained ******. You proved that LeBron takes high IQ shots, thus not wasting possessions. Get your shit together and go drink bleach.

[Axe]

You mada thread criticizing a player for practicing good shot selection. Unfortunately the edit I wanted to make is too long for a thread title so this is the best I could do for you.
Lols

[3ball]

This along with red's posts are the most well thought out posts in this thread.

3ball is getting on LeBron for not taking contested shots... what??

That's like going at any point guard for not taking shots in the paint with a big there.
In the clutch of tight games, contested shots are usually the only thing available, so Lebron's refusal to take them is the reason he defers (i.e. not pulling up over Curry in Game 1 of 18' Finals), which costs his team games and championships

Secondly, anyone who played ball knows that taking contested jumpers is a sign of skill - if you can't do it, you aren't good

Guys who win more than Lebron - aka Kawhi, Durant - take 5 and 6 times the frequency of contested shots as Lebron.. They are superior players who would win every year if they had Lebron's help

[SouBeachTalents]

Guys who win more than Lebron - aka Kawhi, Durant
:whatever:

[FireDavidKahn]

In the clutch of tight games, contested shots are usually the only thing available, so Lebron's refusal to take them is the reason he defers (i.e. not pulling up over Curry in Game 1 of 18' Finals), which costs his team games and championships

Secondly, anyone who played ball knows that taking contested jumpers is a sign of skill - if you can't do it, you aren't good

Guys who win more than Lebron - aka Kawhi, Durant - take 5 and 6 times the frequency of contested shots as Lebron.. They are superior players who would win every year if they had Lebron's help

KD joined a 73 win team and Kawhi forced a trade to a team that won 59 games and subtracted the worst parts of their team and replace Derozan and Valanciunas with Kawhi, Gasol and Green.

If OnLy He HaD lEbRoNs HeLp

[3ball]

:whatever:
Ring frequency and they have winning records vs LeWeakShooter

3 rings in 17 years is horrible for a top 10 candidate.. so is losing to all your peers despite perpetual team-hopping to play with the best help

[highwhey]

Look at the title of the thread. :roll: :biggums::roll:

:roll:

[aj1987]

Ring frequency and they have winning records vs LeWeakShooter

3 rings in 17 years is horrible for a top 10 candidate.. so is losing to all your peers despite perpetual team-hopping to play with the best help

If 3 rings is horrific, what does that Ordan, who was 1-9 without Pip?

[3ball]

:roll:
It would've been funnier if I made that the title from the start.. maybe I'll start making funny thread titles from now on

As played, it shows that my facts pissed off the mod and he reacted in a feminine way.. so 3ball wins.. he gets pissed everytime I post stats that prove lebron's inferiority

For example, he was pissed when I showed that lebron lowers his teammates' assists (thus resulting in low TEAM assist rankings and a low ball movement brand that struggles on the championship level).. he reacted like a female when I posted those stats, similar to how he did here

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

This is pretty well known dude. Back during his Miami years, Lebron made a concentrated effort taking efficient shots.

For example, open jumpers. Was never a big fan because in the playoffs, well, you don't always get clean looks. But that's Lebron's game, and he's been successful at it.

[John Connor]

And the best thread title award goes to...


Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

[3ball]

This is pretty well known dude. Back during his Miami years, Lebron made a concentrated effort taking efficient shots.

For example, open jumpers. Was never a big fan because in the playoffs, well, you don't always get clean looks. But that's Lebron's game, and he's underachieved and mostly lost at it.



Fixed

And his team-hopping caused KD to team-up with Warriors, which cost Lebron a couple rings - this is part of the failure and reason he infact hasn't "succeeded" with his team-hopping

Ultimately, he underachieved the "not 6, not 7" expectation - most people forget that - 3 rings in 7 years of super-teams is an underachievement (11-17'), especially when it includes the goat choke and 2 goat losses (record loss)

Losing as the 1 or 2 seed, or with all-star teammates is a failure too

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

My post was accurate and didn't need editing. You know, like your thread title did.

Bron is widely known as a top 5 player of all-time. Dude also has 3 FMVPs, the second most of all-time. Post Merger.

Again, that's successful by MOST standards :confusedshrug:

[warriorfan]

Fixed

And his team-hopping caused KD to team-up with Warriors, which cost Lebron a couple rings - this is part of the failure and reason he infact hasn't "succeeded" with his team-hopping

Ultimately, he underachieved the "not 6, not 7" expectation - most people forget that - 3 rings in 7 years of super-teams is an underachievement (11-17'), especially when it includes the goat choke and 2 goat losses (record loss)

Losing as the 1 or 2 seed, or with all-star teammates is a failure too

This. People act like 3 rings is great when in reality when taking into account all circumstances like a historically weak eastern conference and multiple team hops to super teams, it’s not really. Now add to the mix that people are talking about him in the top 10 or even GOAT. Up there 3 rings is nothing.

[Axe]

This. People act like 3 rings is great when in reality when taking into account all circumstances like a historically weak eastern conference and multiple team hops to super teams, it’s not really. Now add to the mix that people are talking about him in the top 10 or even GOAT. Up there 3 rings is nothing.
You don't realize that losing in the finals makes him a certified goat, don't you?

[3ball]

My post was accurate and didn't need editing. You know, like your thread title did.

Bron is widely known as a top 5 player of all-time. Dude also has 3 FMVPs, the second most of all-time. Post Merger.

Again, that's successful by MOST standards :confusedshrug:
He'd have 1 Finals appearance without team-hopping

And don't act like he needed to team-hop because Dwight was making the Finals with weak casts ..

there was actually great parity in the East at the time, but lebron's super-teams ruined it

So Lebron had no comp in the East from 11-18' and didn't need super-teams

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He'd have 1 Finals appearance without team-hopping

And don't act like he needed to team-hop because Dwight was making the Finals with weak casts ..

there was actually great parity in the East at the time, but lebron's super-teams ruined it

So Lebron had no comp in the East from 11-18' and didn't need super-teams

You sound like a parrot. Except you're not saying anything.

He isn't KD joining an already established champion. And 73-win team.

Bron's Miami and Cleveland rings are legit. Like most players in that tier, Lebron played well and had ATG numbers while winning.

[red1]

oh man that title roflmao :roll: :roll:

[red1]

Im going to destroy you again when I get the chance to sit down 3ball. I still need you to acknowledge that you were wrong about every major argument that you presented over the years. You've already admit that pippen > mo williams, so thats a nice start.


these are literal quotes from 3ball, I kid you not:

"Scottie pippen is the worst allstar of all-time. Fake allstar. MJ won without any real allstar support"

"Lebron cant win. Too balldominant. Oh he won with miami? Fake wins. Stacked team."

"Oh he lead cleveland to a ring? Fake win. Kyrie"




This is what we're dealing with folks. He never admits when he is wrong. And he is always wrong.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FlimsyInfiniteFinwhale-max-1mb.gif

[3ball]

You sound like a parrot. Except you're not saying anything.

He isn't KD joining an already established champion. And 73-win team.

Bron's Miami and Cleveland rings are legit. Like most players in that tier, Lebron played well and had ATG numbers while winning.
None of his rings are legit because he needed to land on Year 1 favorites to win

That's the easiest path possible - KD took that same path and his aren't legit either

And I agree that lebron got lucky and won in 13' and 16', but those lucky wins are offset 3-fold by 6 losses.. no one is going to lose EVERY year, so it makes no sense to emphasize the wins and act like he isn't a loser - he mostly loses - facts - he's a loser

[Uncle Drew]

Thank you for your confession 3ball. We already suspected it, but it's always nice to get confirmation and people speaking out.

[SouBeachTalents]

None of his rings are legit because he needed to land on Year 1 favorites to win

That's the easiest path possible - KD took that same path and his aren't legit either

And I agree that lebron got lucky and won in 13' and 16', but those lucky wins are offset 3-fold by 6 losses.. no one is going to lose EVERY year, so it makes no sense to emphasize the wins and act like he isn't a loser - he mostly loses - facts - he's a loser
Jordan sure did without Pippen

[red1]

This. People act like 3 rings is great when in reality when taking into account all circumstances like a historically weak eastern conference and multiple team hops to super teams, it’s not really. Now add to the mix that people are talking about him in the top 10 or even GOAT. Up there 3 rings is nothing.

its not just the 3 rings, its the full body of work. undisputed top-5 all-time, already the 2nd best of all-time if he retired today. 3ball claimed barkley kg and dirk were all above lebron. he lost that argument because all he had was "hurr durr mo williams better than pippen mike would've won with delonte west and mo williams superior firepower hurr durr" "hurr durr lebron 0-2 first finals 2 fake rings"


in reality mike didnt win a single thing without the team that won 55-games without him. I'll be sharing that fact very frequently with 3ball in every discussion moving forward.


mike didnt win until he got an excellent supporting cast. before that he used to get slapped around by isiah dumars laimbeer salley and the rest of the bad boys


3balls argument of mike winning all 6 rings on his own all flopped on his face when lebron did everything that 3ball ever said he couldnt do. he did everything that mike technically didnt do that 3ball claimed he did. beat a 73-win team with 3 allstars, with technically no allstars on his team (which is a BS argument in the first place) and he lead both teams in every single stat.


so again 3ball has literally no ground to make the argument that KG or dirk or barkley are better. which was all he ever did. fake rings blah blah


best player in the finals from 2012-2018
3 rings
3 finals MVPs
4 MVPs
all-time leader in many important metrics
etc etc


undisputed top-5. top-10 undeniable even if you're a raging hater.


zero argument to rank guys like kg dirk barkley moses above.


bend the knee 3ball. give it to me.

[3ball]

Jordan sure did without Pippen
Only as the 8 or 7 seed

How did MJ and Lebron do when they weren't low seeds?

Lebron has 3 rings in 15 playoff runs, versus 6 in 8 for MJ

[Turbo Slayer]

LeBron James has the MOST IMPACT of any other player since 1998.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vQdG8Zv84zqKEzETDjd8KPsClcw9bPETX9v_x_KEAxjv9NrFa WikOoiSaciy1jbMiygg2D-V8DUQn0O/pubhtml?gid=112475182&single=true

He also logged in more minutes than any superstar ever since 1998.

Ok, Turbo Slayer out. Logging off.

[FKAri]

Only as the 8 or 7 seed

How did MJ and Lebron do when they weren't low seeds?

Lebron has 3 rings in 15 playoff runs, versus 6 in 7 for MJ

You keep adding caveats. "b-b-but..akctually"
Just admit it MJ sucked dicc. On and off the court.

[3ball]

LeBron James has the MOST IMPACT of any other player since 1998.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vQdG8Zv84zqKEzETDjd8KPsClcw9bPETX9v_x_KEAxjv9NrFa WikOoiSaciy1jbMiygg2D-V8DUQn0O/pubhtml?gid=112475182&single=true

He also logged in more minutes than any superstar ever since 1998.

Ok, Turbo Slayer out. Logging off.
Tied with Draymond.. lol

[red1]

None of his rings are legit because he needed to land on Year 1 favorites to win

That's the easiest path possible - KD took that same path and his aren't legit either

And I agree that lebron got lucky and won in 13' and 16', but those lucky wins are offset 3-fold by 6 losses.. no one is going to lose EVERY year, so it makes no sense to emphasize the wins and act like he isn't a loser - he mostly loses - facts - he's a loser

best player in the regular season, the playoffs, and the finals from 2012-2018

2012: ring.
2013: ring.
2014: wade bum knee spurs superior offense. MJ wouldve gotten smoked.
2015: no second or third option. MJ wouldve gotten smoked.
2016: ring. arguable GOAT ring.
2017: finals AGAIN. ran into the most stacked team of all-time. MJ wouldve gotten smoked.
2018: made the finals AGAIN. ran into the most stacked team of all-time. MJ wouldve gotten smoked.




you lose dear brother 3ball. you argued he couldnt even win one ring. he won 3 rings with 3 finals MVPs. 3/3 finals MVP ratio. was the favorite in only 2 of the 7 finals - again won 3 finals MVPs. so considering the all-time stacked competition from the warriors, he actually overperformed. :roll:


can you admit that you were wrong ranking KG dirk barkley and moses malone above?


you've already admit that you were wrong saying mo williams is undeniably better than pippen. lets keep the honesty going please.

[3ball]

best player in the regular season, the playoffs, and the finals from 2012-2018

2012: ring.
2013: ring.
2014: wade bum knee spurs superior offense. MJ wouldve gotten smoked.
2015: no second or third option. MJ wouldve gotten smoked.
2016: ring. arguable GOAT ring.
2017: finals AGAIN. ran into the most stacked team of all-time. MJ wouldve gotten smoked.
2018: made the finals AGAIN. ran into the most stacked team of all-time. MJ wouldve gotten smoked.




you lose dear brother 3ball. you argued he couldnt even win one ring. he won 3 rings with 3 finals MVPs. 3/3 finals MVP ratio. was the favorite in only 2 of the 7 finals - again won 3 finals MVPs. so considering the all-time stacked competition from the warriors, he actually overperformed. :roll:


can you admit that you were wrong ranking KG dirk barkley and moses malone above?


you've already admit that you were wrong saying mo williams is undeniably better than pippen. lets keep the honesty going please.
MJ won multiple Finals with Pippen at 15 on 40%

So he would smoke the Warriors with a 29 ppg sidekick

How do you lose with prime Kyrie and Love?

It's mind-boggling

So MJ wins in 2017 and obviously 2014

And he never gets locked up like Bron in 07' lol

And 09' Mo was far better than 89' Pippen.. everyone was

Finally, lebron being a perennial underdog with super-teams is a black mark

[SouBeachTalents]

MJ won multiple Finals with Pippen at 15 on 40%

So he would smoke the Warriors with a 29 ppg sidekick

How do you lose with prime Kyrie and Love?

It's mind-boggling

So MJ wins in 2017 and obviously 2014

And he never gets locked up like Bron in 07' lol
The fck kind of analysis is this :oldlol: There's no way you believe basketball works this way

[red1]

MJ won multiple Finals with Pippen at 15 on 40%

So he would smoke the Warriors with a 29 ppg sidekick

How do you lose with prime Kyrie and Love?

It's mind-boggling

So MJ wins in 2017 and obviously 2014

And he never gets locked up like Bron in 07' lol
:roll::roll:


you're actually insane. this is why I used to call you a pajama wearing fanboy.


you've been wrong about everything else and I guarantee you beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are wrong in this case as well. the reason why you're always wrong is because you STILL dont understand that basketball is a team sport. there is zero debate that MJ would've gotten smoked by the 2014 spurs and 2017 warriors if he was in lebrons shoes.


let me remind you - michael didnt win a single thing with a team that won 55-games without him - and when he won he beat the jazz in the finals - NOT the 2017 warriors.


there is zero reason to believe he'd not get swept by the 2017 warriors if he had kyrie as his second option. it would in fact be worse than the early days against the bad boy pistons.




thank you for moving lbj up my all-time rankings. cheers bro. :cheers:

[3ball]

The fck kind of analysis is this :oldlol: There's no way you believe basketball works this way
Lebron employed a "your turn, my turn" approach with Kyrie that wasted his stats

But with MJ - Blatt would still be there running a hybrid Princeton-Triangle and they'd have a juggernaut dynasty

that's all MJ's perfect game needed - a system to keep the ball moving.. his goat scoring versatility fits in perfectly and handles the rest - right on top without hurting teammates or teamwork

goat stats & clutch + ball movement = winning attrition battle against anyone

[red1]

The fck kind of analysis is this :oldlol: There's no way you believe basketball works this way

he never admits that he's wrong but he finally conceded one of his main arguments over the years, which I appreciate. shows that he can be reasonable in the future if you bludgeon him with undeniable facts.


it was absolutely insane trying to convince us that mo williams = pippen, that phil jackson = mike brown, and that varejao = rodman - which he tried to do :roll:


3ball proved to me that lebron is a legit GOAT candidate because if you analyze mike's career the way that he analyzes lebron, you can make a sound case that lebron was better, not even as good. not that I even believe that but Im almost starting to.


according to 3balls own logic mike doesnt have a single real ring because he only won against poor competition, and he never won a single ring without a stacked team - the team that won 55-games without him.

[red1]

Lebron employed a "your turn, my turn" approach with Kyrie that wasted his stats

But with MJ - Blatt would still be there running a hybrid Princeton-Triangle and they'd have a juggernaut dynasty

that's all MJ's perfect game needed - a system to keep the ball moving.. his goat scoring versatility fits in perfectly and handles the rest - right on top without hurting teammates or teamwork

goat stats & clutch + ball movement = winning attrition battle against anyone

**** outta here with your delusional arguments. he would soundly lose to the 2017 warriors with kyrie as his second option. in fact mike never even came close to playing a team of that caliber.


how is the triangle going to stop the GOAT offense from scoring? thats the 2017 warriors FYI. :roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

**** outta here with your delusional arguments. he would soundly lose to the 2017 warriors with kyrie as his second option. in fact mike never even came close to playing a team of that caliber.


how is the triangle going to stop the GOAT offense from scoring? thats the 2017 warriors FYI. :roll:
LeBron & Kyrie averaged nearly 65 ppg that series, their offense was definitely not the problem :lol

[3ball]

:roll::roll:


you're actually insane. this is why I used to call you a pajama wearing fanboy.


you've been wrong about everything else and I guarantee you beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are wrong in this case as well. the reason why you're always wrong is because you STILL dont understand that basketball is a team sport. there is zero debate that MJ would've gotten smoked by the 2014 spurs and 2017 warriors if he was in lebrons shoes.


let me remind you - michael didnt win a single thing with a team that won 55-games without him - and when he won he beat the jazz in the finals - NOT the 2017 warriors.


there is zero reason to believe he'd not get swept by the 2017 warriors if he had kyrie as his second option. it would in fact be worse than the early days against the bad boy pistons.




thank you for moving lbj up my all-time rankings. cheers bro. :cheers:
Dirk's 8 seed almost beat the 14' Spurs by taking them 7 games and Durant went 6 games - only Lebron got beat by record amount so don't try to lump MJ in with a loser like Lebron..

The Spurs only got hot against the Heat because they'd figured out the Heat's offense and could rest defensively - every other opponent scored a lot more, which made the Spurs work harder and have less for offense.. Sorry brah, but Bron-ball gonna Bron-ball (lose the attrition battle and get beat by record amount).. heck, the Heat beat these same Spurs the previous year

Regarding 2017 - we know Kyrie outplays Curry rountinely, while Lebron is supposed to take out KD.. But Love couldn't match Klay because of bron-ball - that's where the drop-off happens.. oh, and Lebron was also outplayed by KD - so between Love and Lebron getting outplayed = blowout loss

Finally, Lebron faced the tough Warriors but he had a 3rd star to face those Warriors, so it evens out - give the 90's Bulls or Jazz a 3rd star and they'd beat anyone in history.. ultimately, you can't compare teams from a 2-star vs 2-star format to a 3-star vs 3 star format

[red1]

LeBron & Kyrie averaged nearly 65 ppg that series, their offense was definitely not the problem :lol

he's trying to make the argument that lebron diminished kyrie, and then he goes right into his usual mj delusions and fantasies:


Lebron employed a "your turn, my turn" approach with Kyrie that wasted his stats

But with MJ - Blatt would still be there running a hybrid Princeton-Triangle and they'd have a juggernaut dynasty

that's all MJ's perfect game needed - a system to keep the ball moving.. his goat scoring versatility fits in perfectly and handles the rest - right on top without hurting teammates or teamwork

goat stats & clutch + ball movement = winning attrition battle against anyone


absolutely clueless. doesn't understand a thing.

[3ball]

LeBron & Kyrie averaged nearly 65 ppg that series, their offense was definitely not the problem :lol
But a your-turn, my-turn approach isn't effective pressure that makes the defense work, so the Warriors had more capacity for offense and could easily win the game (attrition battle)

Any defense would LOVE to defend "your turn, my turn" instead of an actual good offense - Lebron wins off talent not teamwork, and talent alone isn't enough on the championship level..

but heck, he has no choice because you can't develop teamwork when you're team-hopping around every other second and also employing a weak teamwork/ball-dominant style

[Bronbron23]

NBA.com... 94% of Lebron's shots outside of 10 feet are either "open" (4-6 feet from closest defender) or "wide open" (6+ feet), compared to 77.1% (https://stats.nba.com/player/201935/shots-dash/) for Harden, 82.0% (https://stats.nba.com/player/203078/shots-dash/) for Bradley Beal, 77.8% (https://stats.nba.com/player/202695/shots-dash/) for Kawhi, and 66.6% (https://stats.nba.com/player/201142/shots-dash/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) for KDGoat (in 2019).

this shows a massive lack of jumpshooting skill compared to his peers.

There's no defense for guys hitting contested jumpers, so they require double-teams - Lebron doesn't even attempt contested jumpers, so that explains why he doesn't get doubled.

Bron has never really had a consistent reliable jump shot i dont think even his biggest stans would deny that. Theres been a few series like againat the raps where he looks super confident with it but generally through out jis career he hasnt fully trusted it.

So with that said its kind of smart of him not to force up contested jumpers. Hed rather give it up, wait for his spots or get to the hole more. Not sure how thats a bad thing really.

[red1]

Dirk's 8 seed almost beat the 14' Spurs by taking them 7 games and Durant went 6 games - only Lebron got beat by record amount so don't try to lump MJ in with a loser like Lebron..

The Spurs only got hot against the Heat because they'd figured out the Heat's offense and could rest defensively - every other opponent scored a lot more, which made the Spurs work harder and have less for offense.. Sorry brah, but Bron-ball gonna Bron-ball (lose the attrition battle and get beat by record amount).. heck, the Heat beat these same Spurs the previous year

Regarding 2017 - we know Kyrie outplays Curry rountinely, while Lebron is supposed to take out KD.. And Love was a 26 ppg scorer who normally could match Klay - but not in Bron-ball - so Love can't match Klay and that's where the drop-off happens.. oh, and Lebron was also outplayed by KD - so between Love and Lebron getting outplayed = blowout loss

Finally, Lebron faced the tough Warriors but he had a 3rd star to face those Warriors, so it evens out - give the 90's Bulls or Jazz a 3rd star and they'd beat anyone in history.. ultimately, you can't compare teams from a 2-star vs 2-star format to a 3-star vs 3 star format

dude Im trying to be respectful but you're so biased that it's almost impossible not to get annoyed. literally every single new argument that you tried to make here is wrong.


wrong. wrong. wrong. lebron controls the pace of games better than any other player in NBA history which is why the cavs actually had a shot in the 2015 finals despite the MASSIVE gap in talent and the fact that the cavs were only fielding 6 or 7 viable players as opposed to the deep and rested warriors.

spurs feasted with their ball-movement because the heat looked old and sluggish unlike the previous year. every single player from mills to green to ginobili was hitting shots and wade was slow as hell looked like he shouldnt even have been on the court.

the 2017 warriors would annihilate mj if he was playing on the 2017 cavs. just stop right here before we start going through the teams that mj played in the finals again.


MJ won multiple Finals with Pippen at 15 on 40%

So he would smoke the Warriors with a 29 ppg sidekick

How do you lose with prime Kyrie and Love?

It's mind-boggling

So MJ wins in 2017 and obviously 2014

And he never gets locked up like Bron in 07' lol

And 09' Mo was far better than 89' Pippen.. everyone was

Finally, lebron being a perennial underdog with super-teams is a black mark
this is the dumbest shit that I've read in my life. :roll:

[RRR3]

3ball you’re just going to get banned again. Do you learn nothing from being banned?

[3ball]

.
Per 100 Possessions - Playoffs

14' Wade..... 28.6 pts.. 6.2 ast.. 56.0 ts.. 106 ortg.. 18.5 PER.. 0.086 ws/48.. 1.6 obpm
93' Pippen... 26.2 pts.. 7.4 ast.. 50.0 ts.. 102 ortg.. 16.9 PER.. 0.083 ws/48.. 1.1 obpm




dude Im trying to be respectful but you're so biased that it's almost impossible not to get annoyed. literally every single new argument that you tried to make here is wrong.


wrong. wrong. wrong. lebron controls the pace of games better than any other player in NBA history which is why the cavs actually had a shot in the 2016 finals despite the MASSIVE gap in talent and the fact that the cavs were only fielding 6 or 7 viable players as opposed to the deep and rested warriors.

spurs feasted with their ball-movement because the heat looked old and sluggish unlike the previous year. every single player from mills to green to ginobili was hitting shots and wade was slow as hell looked like he shouldnt even have been on the court.

the 2017 warriors would annihilate mj if he was playing on the 2017 cavs. just stop right here before we start going through the teams that mj played in the finals again.


this is the dumbest shit that I've read in my life. :roll:
The 16' Cavs had more talent because they had the best 2nd option performance ever - Kyrie was so much better than Curry.

With Kyrie taking out Curry, Lebron only has to outplay Klay - so the Warriors were less talented and needed Durant to match the Cavs.

Regarding 2014 - the Heat core was much younger than the Spurs' core, which was ancient - so the age excuse holds no water because it's false.. the Spurs had simply figured out Lebron-ball, so they won the last 3 games just like all 6 of Lebron's Finals losses.. Bron-ball is basic playground style (one guy makes all the plays) - it's a version of harden-ball yet you're wondering why he's 3/9 on the championship level.. lolol

And Lebron doesn't control pace, except that 1 time - otherwise, he's normally getting run out of the gym, aka 3/9, aka 3/17

Finally, you should stop whining about 13-14' Wade - he'd only been reduced to prime Pippen numbers - so now you know why I complain about Pippen.. And Pippen was worse in the 1993 Playoffs and was horrible the entire 2nd three-peat (15 on 34% in 96' Finals).. yet MJ always won because his scoring and clutch was enough to make up for Pippen's aids

[red1]

.
Per 100 Possessions - Playoffs

14' Wade..... 28.6 pts.. 6.2 ast.. 56.0 ts.. 106 ortg.. 18.5 PER.. 0.086 ws/48.. 1.6 obpm
93' Pippen... 26.2 pts.. 7.4 ast.. 50.0 ts.. 102 ortg.. 16.9 PER.. 0.083 ws/48.. 1.1 obpm




The 16' Cavs had more talent because they had the best 2nd option performance ever - Kyrie was so much better than Curry.

With Kyrie taking out Curry, Lebron only has to outplay Klay - so the Warriors were less talented and needed Durant to match the Cavs.

Regarding 2014 - the Heat core was much younger than the Spurs' core, which was ancient - so the age excuse holds no water because it's false.. the Spurs had simply figured out Lebron-ball, so they won the last 3 games just like all 6 of Lebron's Finals losses.. Bron-ball is basic playground style (one guy makes all the plays) - it's a version of harden-ball yet you're wondering why he's 3/9 on the championship level.. lolol


But a your-turn, my-turn approach isn't effective pressure that makes the defense work, so the Warriors had more capacity for offense and could easily win the game (attrition battle)

Any defense would LOVE to defend "your turn, my turn" instead of an actual good offense - Lebron wins off talent not teamwork, and talent alone isn't enough on the championship level..

but heck, he has no choice because you can't develop teamwork when you're team-hopping around every other second and also employing a weak teamwork/ball-dominant style

dude the reason why you always get corrected is because you dont understand relative talent. you're too narrow-minded and fanboyish in the way you see things.

you're such a fanboy that you are always defending jordan's legacy and thats why you have trashed and continue to trash every single other player in NBA history except mike.

contrary to what you argue lebrons teams always execute well on offense and his style carries the team on both sides of the ball. you've already been proven wrong. lebron now has one of the greatest finals series of all-time under his belt, if not THE greatest finals series with the optics of leading both teams in every single stat, 3-1 comeback, fulfilling the hype of bringing a chip to cleveland and ohio, etc. plus two other finals MVPs in the trophy case.

the cavaliers were good enough to win the title every single season that they had lebron and kyrie. even though their defense would slip at times, their OFFENSE is what would carry them.


2015 kyrie was injured and love was out. no chance. put up an honorable fight with delly and tristan, warriors were extremely deep and very talented.
2016 ring. proved every argument that you made wrong. you said this could never happen.
2017 literal most stacked team of all-time


thats all there is to it.


FYI mike never won a single ring without the bulls squad that won 55 games without him. talk about a stacked team. and then he beat the jazz in the finals - not the warriors with steph klay iggy dray kd etc. the 2016 warriors would probably beat every finals team MJ ever went up against with ease. :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

lmao

[AirFederer]

Lol but should also be done to every Manny etc thread/reply

[3ball]

dude the reason why you always get corrected is because you dont understand relative talent. you're too narrow-minded and fanboyish the way you see things.

you're such a fanboy that you are always defending jordan's legacy thats why you have trashed every single other player in NBA history except mike.

contrary to what you argue lebrons teams always execute well on offense and his style carries the team on both sides of the ball.

the cavaliers were good enough to win the title every single season that they had lebron and kyrie. even though their defense would slip at times their OFFENSE is what would carry them.


2015 kyrie was injured and love was out. no chance. put up an honorable fight with delly and tristan, warriors were extremely deep and very talented.
2016 ring. proved every argument that you made wrong. you said this could never happen.
2017 literal most stacked team of all-time


thats all there is to it.


FYI mike never won a single ring without the bulls squad that won 55 games without him. talk about a stacked team. and then he beat the jazz in the finals - not the warriors with steph klay iggy dray kd etc. :roll:
Mike was just that good - everyone is trashed compared to him because he IS the measuring stick - everyone is compared to him

A 6'6" guy with a 7-footer's drop step

See, you probably don't realize the significance of what I just said.. you might not know what a drop-step is (one step vertical) or can't cite examples for Jordan (hint: the most famous drop step ever was MJ's switch hands shot)

Also, the 88' Bulls needed 35 from MJ because teamwork was at the infancy stage, while the 94' bulls only needed 22 from Pippen because of 3-peat teamwork - neither the 88' or 94' teams had a lot of talent, but at least the 94' team had a 3-peat system so they only needed 22 from the #1 option.. the 94' bulls won off teamwork, not talent

Btw, if Lebron-ball is a great offense, then why wasn't it wearing the Spurs out? Why were only the Heat getting worn out? Sounds like one team was moving the ball and the other team wasn't responding in kind (bron-ball)

And the Bulls beat the 2-star Jazz with a 2-star team, while lebron beat a 3-star team with a 3-star team - so let's not act like Lebron had a tougher road pre-KD-Warriors.

Finally, Lebron/Kyrie/Love cancel out KD/Curry/Klay - so Lebron had enough to win and MANY teams have won while facing bigger talent deficits (see the 11' Finals)

[red1]

Regarding 2014 - the Heat core was much younger than the Spurs' core, which was ancient - so the age excuse holds no water because it's false.. the Spurs had simply figured out Lebron-ball, so they won the last 3 games just like all 6 of Lebron's Finals losses.. Bron-ball is basic playground style (one guy makes all the plays) - it's a version of harden-ball yet you're wondering why he's 3/9 on the championship level.. lolol

And Lebron doesn't control pace, except that 1 time - otherwise, he's normally getting run out of the gym, aka 3/9, aka 3/17

Finally, you should stop whining about 13-14' Wade - he'd only been reduced to prime Pippen numbers - so now you know why I complain about Pippen.. And Pippen was worse in the 1993 Playoffs and was horrible the entire 2nd three-peat (15 on 34% in 96' Finals).. yet MJ always won because his scoring and clutch was enough to make up for Pippen's aids
its not about the numbers genius. its the fact that the knees were done. couldnt run up and down the court my boy looked like he was seeing the end of his career before his eyes.

https://i1.wp.com/giant.gfycat.com/AchingFantasticAndeancondor.gif



anways no complaints my dude because lebron choked one and cost wade a finals MVP so they were even - they still won two rings together and moved up the all-time rankings to get their due credit.

great job by bigboss pat riley bringing them together to build up that legacy and shit on haters like you.

and you cant knock the spurs for age anymore - we trashed them back then but in hindsight they were absolutely stacked.

the spurs had young players going off in kawhi green mills as well as veterans parker ginobili duncan - its a wonder lebron even managed to beat such a stacked team the previous year.

what a huge ring and finals MVP. these two teams gave us two great series with the 7-game series epic heat win and the spurs shooting clinic the next year.

[red1]

Mike was just that good - everyone is trashed compared to him because he IS the measuring stick - everyone is compared to him

A 6'6" guy with a 7-footer's drop step

See, you probably don't realize the significance of what I just said.. you might not know what a drop-step is (one step vertical) or can't cite examples for Jordan (hint: the most famous drop step ever was MJ's switch hands shot)

Also, the 88' Bulls needed 35 from MJ because teamwork was at the infancy stage, while the 94' bulls only needed 22 from Pippen because of 3-peat teamwork - neither the 88' or 94' teams had a lot of talent, but at least the 94' team had a 3-peat system so they only needed 22 from the #1 option.. the 94' bulls won off teamwork, not talent

Btw, if Lebron-ball is a great offense, then why wasn't it wearing the Spurs out? Why were only the Heat getting worn out? Sounds like one team was moving the ball and the other team wasn't responding in kind (bron-ball)

And the Bulls beat the 2-star Jazz with a 2-star team, while lebron beat a 3-star team with a 3-star team - so let's not act like Lebron had a tougher road pre-KD-Warriors.

Finally, Lebron/Kyrie/Love cancel out KD/Curry/Klay - so Lebron had enough to win and MANY teams have won while facing bigger talent deficits (see the 11' Finals)

we use narratives to make our point. all you ever do is twist the facts. in my eyes lbj is the GOAT athlete and thats in all pro sports. too athletic and too skilled.

mike is the measuring stick because he was the best player and because he won. might actually have the best career in pro sports history. the bulls were iconic.

as far as athleticism, you can gush over anything if you're a fan. mj could definitely explode in the paint elite fast twitch and quickness. lebron is more athletic though. a guy that big running that fast and still throwing pinpoint passes is more impressive IMO as far as athleticism goes.

I get it mike is your guy. again we use narratives to make our point. I respect the 90s bulls because they were the brand in sports and THE team. I had a lot of bandwagon bulls fans in my family

you haters act like its a bad thing to carry your team in the playoffs so many years. especially years where you show that you are the best in the league until you get ganged up on by a team with multiple allstars. newsflash - that will be a positive in the legacy.


https://media2.giphy.com/media/24TtIshx2m6OY/source.gif
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CostlyLimpAustralianfreshwatercrocodile-size_restricted.gif


the reason Ive been posting so much about all-time rankings lately because the blood is in the water and its right there. winning three championships has already set the cement stamp of a winner.

4 rings 4 finals MVPs 6 other conference titles all of the other all-time stats plus leading 3 different franchises to a championship - thats a GOAT-contending legacy. guaranteed 2nd GOAT at worst.

and he's gonna do it. AD is the truth and bron is still the bitw. this year might be a write-off so he'll still have two cracks at it before he declines off a cliff.



here we come. bring me that azz 3ball - you argued not top-15.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FlimsyInfiniteFinwhale-max-1mb.gif

[RRR3]

3ball has to be thrilled LeBron will be prevented from having a shot at a ring this year. He was going to go off the deep end if LeBron gets that 4th FMVP.

[red1]

3ball has to be thrilled LeBron will be prevented from having a shot at a ring this year. He was going to go off the deep end if LeBron gets that 4th FMVP.

the lakers will have a couple of cracks at it. will have to beat the clippers and the bucks so two tough series. especially the clippers who will try to wear him down with all of their wings. AD will help massively because AD and lebron is an all-time duo IMO. they're gonna do it next year if not this one.

[MrFonzworth]

The title:roll:

Only on ISH:applause:

[3ball]

in my eyes lbj is the GOAT athlete




Please sit down before you read this bro because I don't want you to panic or anything

There is no video of Dr. J or Lebron getting their head at rim off two legs, and no video of Dominique getting his head at rim off one leg... Accordingly, among the great players, only Jordan has documented footage of him getting his head at rim off both one AND two legs.

one leg: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12173571&postcount=62
two legs: https://media.giphy.com/media/l2JhuRyEvLxbgD3fG/giphy.gif

goat combo leaper + goat quickness = goat basketball athlete

:confusedshrug:

Jordan's superior leaping versatility helps explain his goat scoring skill and unstoppableness.

[Vino24]

LeBron was faster than MJ and overall covered more space

[red1]

Please sit down before you read this bro because I don't want you to panic or anything

There is no video of Dr. J or Lebron getting their head at rim off two legs, and no video of Dominique getting his head at rim off one leg... Accordingly, among the great players, only Jordan has documented footage of him getting his head at rim off both one AND two legs.

one leg: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12173571&postcount=62
two legs: https://media.giphy.com/media/l2JhuRyEvLxbgD3fG/giphy.gif

goat combo leaper + goat quickness = goat basketball athlete

:confusedshrug:

Jordan's superior leaping versatility helps explain his goat scoring skill and unstoppableness.
theres also no footage of jordan beating a 73-win team.



you want me to find some footage of that bro? please sit down before you watch it I dont want you getting dizzy. :dancin

[3ball]

3ball has to be thrilled LeBron will be prevented from having a shot at a ring this year. He was going to go off the deep end if LeBron gets that 4th FMVP.
No.. Lebron is 1000% right on this - it takes longer to warm up an older car.

If he were to jump back into high intensity games, he wouldn't be ready - in seasons past, he often goes like .500 for the first 6-10 games before his body is ready - in an abbreviated format, the Lakers would be out early if Lebron does that.

I also know he wasn't thrilled about playing with no fans for a variety of reasons

[red1]

if they let lebron foul and and travel then I dont see any way of mj stopping him, sorry. mj is strong for a shooting guard but lebron is strong period aka broad shoulders built for carrying scrubs.

[3ball]

theres also no footage of jordan beating a 73-win team.



you want me to find some footage of that bro? please sit down before you watch it I dont want you getting dizzy. :dancin



I'll find that footage for you when you find me footage of a 28 ppg second option closer in the Finals, or a 2nd option outplaying the league MVP, or a 2nd option dropping 40 along with the #1 option

(best 2nd option performance ever, aka best help ever)

[red1]

I'll find that footage for you when you find me footage of a 28 ppg second option closer in the Finals

you mean the non-allstar?



checkmate my friend. :oldlol:

[Vino24]

I'll find that footage for you when you find me footage of a 28 ppg second option closer in the Finals, or a 2nd option dropping 40 along with the #1 option

(best 2nd option performance ever, aka best help ever)

LeBron is better at elevating players around him. He made Mo Williams look competent

[red1]

leading the team in every stat without an allstar on the team - while beating 3-allstars on the road, a 73-win team.


man that must be the GOAT first option.


supreme leadership and elevating of teammates, aka patented bronball ball-dominance. :roll:

[3ball]

LeBron is better at elevating players around him. He made Mo Williams look competent
I never said he made EVERYBODY look bad

But a few examples is all you need, and Lebron has tons, aka Hood, Crowder, Rose, Wade (the 2nd time in Cleveland), Jamison, IT, Ingram... that's just a few gems; not even the biggest examples.. :facepalm:

Infact, only 1 player type excels alongside him - good spot-up shooters - this puts a lower ceiling on his teams and is an indictment on his skillset (a CP3/Harden-style ball-dominator).

Otoh, all player types excelled alongside MJ, including SF's (Woodridge, Pippen), guards (BJ, Paxson, Kerr), bigs (Horace, crazy Dennis, Bison Dele).. MJ made nobodies into somebodies and turned single digit rookies into all-star (Pip, Grant, BJ)... heck, he gave the waived Kerr a career, which gave him a name recognition boost for a post-playing career.. without MJ passing to Kerr, he doesn't get picked up by the Spurs and into their coaching network, so no dynasty Warriors

[red1]

down 3-1


game 5: 41 points (GOAT elimination game performer in NBA history)
game 6: 41 points (GOAT elimination game performer in NBA history)
game 7: triple double (GOAT elimination game performer in NBA history)


buh buh kyrie






the only knock was that he was 0-2 in the finals. since then he's joined the elite club of 3 championships as the best player against elite all-time competition - but he'd rather take kg and barkley though. :roll:

https://media.giphy.com/media/B8c8Qm5pNzv1K/source.gif
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClXdOhhWkAA3H_f.jpg

[3ball]

leading the team in every stat without an allstar on the team - while beating 3-allstars on the road, a 73-win team.


man that must be the GOAT first option.


supreme leadership and elevating of teammates, aka patented bronball ball-dominance. :roll:


Everyone in history would be 2nd option to MJ in the playoffs and Finals:


Playoff PPG

Micheal "GOAT" Jordan... 33.5






all the best scorers in history.... 26-29





^^^ that's a 4-5 point gap over all the best scorers in history, with higher efficiency rating (and pts per possession over basically everyone)

[red1]

I never said he made EVERYBODY look bad

But a few examples is all you need, and Lebron has tons, aka Hood, Crowder, Rose, Wade (the 2nd time in Cleveland), Jamison, IT, Ingram... that's just a few gems; not even the biggest examples.. :facepalm:

Infact, only 1 player type excels alongside him - good spot-up shooters - this puts a lower ceiling on his teams and is an indictment on his skillset (a CP3/Harden-style ball-dominator).

Otoh, all player types excelled alongside MJ, including SF's (Woodridge, Pippen), guards (BJ, Paxson, Kerr), bigs (Horace, crazy Dennis, Bison Dele).. MJ made nobodies into somebodies and turned single digit rookies into all-star (Pip, Grant, BJ)... heck, he gave the waived Kerr a career, which gave him a name recognition boost for a post-playing career.. without MJ passing to Kerr, he doesn't get picked up by the Spurs and into their coaching network, so no dynasty Warriors

lebron is very easy to build around. the problem was that he didnt have good coaching or a good front office at first. jordan would have gone ringless in his career if he played with larry huges and delonte and varejao. lbj turned his team into a contender on every franchise.

can you imagine him playing on the warriors that you always bring up? with klay? with iggy helping him guard other players?

can you imagine him playing on the spurs that you always bring up? playing with guys like ginobili? parker? a young kawhi?


exactly. it's a team sport kid. mj is 1-9 without pippen.

[Vino24]

Everyone in history would be 2nd option to MJ in the playoffs and Finals:


Playoff PPG

Micheal "GOAT" Jordan... 33.5






all the best scorers in history.... 26-29

Pippen led MJ in career assists, rebounds and blocks

[Docs Orders]

no pip no chip

[red1]

Everyone in history would be 2nd option to MJ in the playoffs and Finals:


Playoff PPG

Micheal "GOAT" Jordan... 33.5






all the best scorers in history.... 26-29





^^^ that's a 4-5 point gap over all the best scorers in history, with higher efficiency rating too

your obsession with stats has already backfired. lebron led his team in every single stat against elite competition. "buh buh kyrie" :roll:

https://media.giphy.com/media/B8c8Qm5pNzv1K/giphy.gif



I love this quarantine, please dont get yourself banned again.

https://media.giphy.com/media/B8c8Qm5pNzv1K/giphy.gif

[3ball]

Pippen led MJ in career assists, rebounds and blocks
MJ averaged equal assists to Pippen - so he shared the passing load equally, while carrying the goat scoring load and getting more dpoy votes every year

Only Lebron fans say someone that SHARES DUTIES EQUALLY is carrying a category, aka lebron's equal-scoring and usage load with Kyrie or Jordan/Pippen equal passing load

[3ball]

The problem with Lebron's 2016 Finals is that if Kyrie doesn't average more than any 2nd option ever has, then Lebron would've needed to drop 40, and he isn't capable

[red1]

The problem with Lebron's 2016 Finals is that if Kyrie doesn't average more than any 2nd option ever has, then Lebron would've needed to drop 40, and he isn't capable

maybe you're right about that bro. I hope you know you're the only that thinks like that. maybe skip as well actually.



but you know what? "buh buh kyrie" is fine and all but this is ACTUAL reality - FYI you tried to claim pippen is a fake allstar - kyrie wasnt an allstar that year so I can actually claim what you tried to claim, did it without a single allstar :roll::


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8b/d8/1a/8bd81a50eb70b4f479f5a77d891c133d.jpg



just found chris broussard's top 10 list. gotta say it looks pretty good to me:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRwnoBdVwAA1xNA.jpg

[3ball]

maybe you're right about that bro. I hope you know you're the only that thinks like that. maybe skip as well actually.



If Kyrie scores less, then Lebron must average 40 to win, or play a much better brand of ball (ball movement), so the team is better and doesn't need 7 games or 40 from anyone..

but we know lebron can't play a better brand of ball, so he would need 40 if Kyrie scored less

As I type this, I realize that Barkley's Suns were pretty good for forcing MJ to get 40, despite the Bulls' great brand of ball that normally reduces what the #1 option needs to get.






just found chris broussard's top 10 list. gotta say it looks pretty good to me:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRwnoBdVwAA1xNA.jpg



Chris isn't realizing that Magic and Kareem's results aren't good enough for both to be ranked top 5 (barely .500 in the Finals)

So one of them must be knocked down.. Maybe both

I'm knocking both down a little, but Magic down more because he's a ball-dominator and wasn't a skilled jumpshooter.. Him and Lebron are neck-and-neck, with Magic getting the edge for being ahead in the more vital skills (better and more instinctive passer; better and quicker decision-maker; better on post; less ball-dominant as a big scorer than Bron; better leader, aka the original "Showtime")


MJ
Bird
Wilt
Kareem
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Russell
Magic
Lebron



However, Lebron will quickly fall out of my top 10 once Kawhi or KD do something else, or if Lebron chokes again.. fwiw Lebron's play at 35 did bump him up ahead of KD and a few others I had ahead of him

[red1]

If Kyrie scores less, then Lebron must average 40 to win, or play a much better brand of ball (ball movement), so the team is better and doesn't need 7 games or 40 from anyone..

but we know lebron can't play a better brand of ball, so he would need 40 if Kyrie scored less

As I type this, I realize that Barkley's Suns were pretty good for forcing MJ to get 40, despite the Bulls' great brand of ball that normally reduces what the #1 option needs to get.

dude you make a lot of excuses. a LOT of excuses. your theories are based on faulty logic. even your ball movement theory doesn't account for talent, which you always refuse to acknowledge.


can you just acknowledge that you were wrong? you said lebron is a fake superstar who cant lead a team to a championship. but it happened. three times. in spectacular fashion I might add.


can you just say that "I, 3ball, did not know what I was talking about?"


if you want to play the excuse game you can make the excuse that lebron was robbed of the chance to compete for the championship 4 out of 5 prime years due to injuries or facing the most stacked team of all time (2014, 2015, 2017,2018) - and he STILL won 3 finals MVPs managing to shit on you. :roll:

he WISHES he would've played barkleys suns in the finals those years - or with a healthy team period. not with kyrie out and wade limping. jordan wouldnt win a single finals with scottie out. :oldlol:




Chris isn't realizing that Magic and Kareem's results aren't good enough for both to be ranked top 5 (barely .500 in the Finals)

So one of them must be knocked down.. Maybe both

I'm knocking both down a little, but Magic down more because he's a ball-dominator and wasn't a skilled jumpshooter.. Him and Lebron are neck-and-neck, with Magic getting the edge for being ahead in the more vital skills (better and more instinctive passer; better and quicker decision-maker; better on post; less ball-dominant as a big scorer than Bron; better leader, aka the original "Showtime")


MJ
Bird
Wilt
Kareem
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Russell
Magic
Lebron



However, Lebron will quickly fall out of my top 10 once Kawhi or KD do something else, or if Lebron chokes again.. fwiw Lebron's play at 35 did bump him up ahead of KD and a few others I had ahead of him

not a fan of your list. I think his is better. :)

[red1]

this is a great list.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRwnoBdVwAA1xNA.jpg

[3ball]

fake superstar who cant lead a team to a championship



he's a fake star

he manufactured his entire resume, aka 8 straight Finals by forming a strong team in a conference that didn't require a strong team to win it

do you understand that? do you understand that he literally teamed up with his rivals and the best stars in the league.. that formed a team-hopping trend that ultimately resulted in weaker basketball league-wide (talent-based winning < teamwork built over numerous years)

how much of a star would MJ be if he teamed up with Bird or Magic or Isiah?... that's what lebron did... :confusedshrug:

and he failed to 3-peat.. he absolutely deserves blame for letting a bunch of old guys push his team around
.

[RRR3]

This dude criticized someone for ranking Magic and Kareem too 5 based off their finals records and then turns around and lists Wilt top 3.



What the actual shit.

[red1]

he's a fake star

he manufactured his entire resume, aka 8 straight Finals by forming a strong team in a conference that didn't require a strong team to win it

do you understand that? do you understand that he literally teamed up with his rivals and the best stars in the league.. that formed a team-hopping trend that ultimately resulted in weaker basketball league-wide (talent-based winning < teamwork built over numerous years)

how much of a star would MJ be if he teamed up with Bird or Magic or Isiah?... that's what lebron did... :confusedshrug:

and he failed to 3-peat.. he absolutely deserves blame for letting a bunch of old guys push his team around
.
:oldlol:

you're too much fun. dont get yourself banned again.

lebron is 1-0 for finals MVPs vs duncan and his stacked teams. they ganged up on him two other times but hey 1-0 vs duncan for finals MVPs is not bad.

Im happy lebron went to miami because now he can shit on haters like you who claimed he would end up ringless. you still cry about ray to this day. that move even helped cleveland rebuild and get kyrie, another guy who snatched your soul and still has you crying "buh buh kyrie" to this day, all with a quivering lip.


why would mj need to join bird or magic when his team is already capable of winning 55-games without him? :confusedshrug: and look at the guys mj beat in the finals - the weakest and oldest version of the lakers, the blazers who were fairly weak as well, the suns, the sonics, and the jazz.


none of these teams are NEARLY as good as the 2013 and 2014 spurs that you always trash. nor do they come close to the talent of the 2012 thunder or 2016 warriors.


and again MJ's stacked team won 55 games without him, playing weak competition in the playoffs and finals according to your logic.

[3ball]

you're too much fun. dont get yourself banned again.

lebron is 1-0 for finals MVPs vs duncan and his stacked teams. they ganged up on him two other times but hey 1-0 vs duncan for finals MVPs is not bad.



3 different Finals opponents beat Lebron's super-teams and 2 underdogs beat his 1 seeds (Magic, Celtics)

Translation: Bron-ball easy to beat, even WITH team-hopping and super-teams





Im happy lebron went to miami



Of course you are because he was never going to win otherwise!!

his suboptimal brand could never build the teamwork needed to win WITHOUT team-hopping (talent-based winning)





why would mj need to join bird or magic when his team is already capable of winning 55-games without him?



In 1989, the 47-win Bulls would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without Jordan's 33/8/8..

So that was a lottery cast that he carried to the ECF, which allowed them to get the experience needed to begin a 3-peat within 2 years.

So no, they couldn't win 55 without him and were a lottery cast that choked every playoffs, yet MJ didn't team-hop





look at the guys mj beat in the finals - the weakest



Forget the Lakers, Blazers, etc

The bulls' cast was weak

During the 1991 regular season, Reggie Miller said: "the Bulls are nothing without Michael Jordan" (quote and video here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BcoVUSypeS4&t=04m18s))...

During the 1993 Finals, Isiah told Bob Costas on national TV that the Bulls were a 1-man team.. This was after Magic said his peak Lakers would beat the bulls because the Lakers' cast would "demolish" the Bulls.. See the 2-minute exchange between Magic/Costas/Isiah here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6og_pOVi2w&t=0m16s)






oldest version of the lakers, the blazers who were fairly weak as well, the suns, the sonics, and the jazz.



Again, the Bulls cast was just Jordan - that's why he needed to average 36/7/8 on 53% in the 91-93' Finals to win (goat stats)

As Reggie Miller and Magic's quotes above demonstrate, MJ had a pretty ordinary cast who forced him to have the goat PPG, PER, BPM, WS/48, and clutch.. They also forced him to have a good-shooting, off-ball game so he could fit these stats into a system that benefit everyone/maximized team ceiling, aka 6/6





none of these teams are NEARLY as good as the 2013 and 2014 spurs



Lebron's "decision" gave him the most talent in the league from 2011-2014, yet he only won twice - so it's irrelevant how good you think the Spurs were because Lebron's Heat had the most talent in the league

And the 13' and 14' Spurs weren't better than any of MJ's Finals opponents - you have zero evidence they were the except your opinion... MJ actually destroyed less athletic bigs like Duncan, and this is evident in the 2 regular season games vs Duncan in 98'





and again MJ's stacked team won 55 games without him



That team didn't have talent - a simple dunker was their 2nd option - they won via teamwork/3-peat system, which is why they only needed 22 ppg from Pippen

[RRR3]

This dude criticized someone for ranking Magic and Kareem too 5 based off their finals records and then turns around and lists Wilt top 3.



What the actual shit.
He’s petrified to address this lol. PETRIFIED.

[Turbo Slayer]

3 different Finals opponents beat Lebron's super-teams and 2 underdogs beat his 1 seeds (Magic, Celtics)

Translation: Bron-ball easy to beat, even WITH team-hopping and super-teams







Forget the Lakers, Blazers, etc

The bulls' cast was weak

During the 1991 regular season, Reggie Miller said: "the Bulls are nothing without Michael Jordan" (quote and video here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BcoVUSypeS4&t=04m18s))...

During the 1993 Finals, Isiah told Bob Costas on national TV that the Bulls were a 1-man team.. This was after Magic said his peak Lakers would beat the bulls because the Lakers' cast would "demolish" the Bulls.. See the 2-minute exchange between Magic/Costas/Isiah here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6og_pOVi2w&t=0m16s)




Again, the Bulls cast was just Jordan - that's why he needed to average 36/7/8 on 53% in the 91-93' Finals to win (goat stats)

As Reggie Miller and Magic's quotes above demonstrate, MJ had a pretty ordinary cast who forced him to have the goat PPG, PER, BPM, WS/48, and clutch.. They also forced him to have a good-shooting, off-ball game so he could fit these stats into a system that benefit everyone/maximized team ceiling, aka 6/6



Lebron's "decision" gave him the most talent in the league from 2011-2014, yet he only won twice - so it's irrelevant how good you think the Spurs were because Lebron's Heat had the most talent in the league

And the 13' and 14' Spurs weren't better than any of MJ's Finals opponents - you have zero evidence they were the except your opinion... MJ actually destroyed less athletic bigs like Duncan, and this is evident in the 2 regular season games vs Duncan in 98'



That team didn't have talent - a simple dunker was their 2nd option - they won via teamwork/3-peat system, which is why they only needed 22 ppg from Pippen


Bron-ball easy to beat, even WITH team-hopping and super-teams If it is truly ¨easy to beat¨ then why his inferior brand rewarded LeBron with 8 straight Finals run and 3 titles? Your 1st quote makes no sense. :facepalm Plus, all of his Finals losses contain teams that were garbage on defense. Ex. 2016-17 Cavaliers and 2017-18 Cavaliers finshed 21st and 29th in defense respectively. No championship wins with that defense. You need a team that can do well in offense and defense. You dont get it.


Of course you are because he was never going to win otherwise!!

his suboptimal brand could never build the teamwork needed to win WITHOUT team-hopping (talent-based winning) Kobe was losing in the Finals until he got Gasol in 2008 and won 1 year later . Historically, teams that won titles are also the most stacked. Your 2nd quote makes no sense to me. The 2008 Celtics won in their 1st year of teaming up also. Its a non-point...


And the 13' and 14' Spurs weren't better than any of MJ's Finals opponents - you have zero evidence they were the except your opinion The Spurs postseason efficiency was higher than MJs best Finals opponent. What part dont you get?

[Rico2016]

This guy is still on all this stuff I see

[imdaman99]

How bored do you guys gotta be? :lol

[Axe]

This guy is still on all this stuff I see
Yes

[red1]

3 different Finals opponents beat Lebron's super-teams and 2 underdogs beat his 1 seeds (Magic, Celtics)

Translation: Bron-ball easy to beat, even WITH team-hopping and super-teams



Of course you are because he was never going to win otherwise!!

his suboptimal brand could never build the teamwork needed to win WITHOUT team-hopping (talent-based winning)



In 1989, the 47-win Bulls would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without Jordan's 33/8/8..

So that was a lottery cast that he carried to the ECF, which allowed them to get the experience needed to begin a 3-peat within 2 years.

So no, they couldn't win 55 without him and were a lottery cast that choked every playoffs, yet MJ didn't team-hop



Forget the Lakers, Blazers, etc

The bulls' cast was weak

During the 1991 regular season, Reggie Miller said: "the Bulls are nothing without Michael Jordan" (quote and video here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BcoVUSypeS4&t=04m18s))...

During the 1993 Finals, Isiah told Bob Costas on national TV that the Bulls were a 1-man team.. This was after Magic said his peak Lakers would beat the bulls because the Lakers' cast would "demolish" the Bulls.. See the 2-minute exchange between Magic/Costas/Isiah here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6og_pOVi2w&t=0m16s)




Again, the Bulls cast was just Jordan - that's why he needed to average 36/7/8 on 53% in the 91-93' Finals to win (goat stats)

As Reggie Miller and Magic's quotes above demonstrate, MJ had a pretty ordinary cast who forced him to have the goat PPG, PER, BPM, WS/48, and clutch.. They also forced him to have a good-shooting, off-ball game so he could fit these stats into a system that benefit everyone/maximized team ceiling, aka 6/6



Lebron's "decision" gave him the most talent in the league from 2011-2014, yet he only won twice - so it's irrelevant how good you think the Spurs were because Lebron's Heat had the most talent in the league

And the 13' and 14' Spurs weren't better than any of MJ's Finals opponents - you have zero evidence they were the except your opinion... MJ actually destroyed less athletic bigs like Duncan, and this is evident in the 2 regular season games vs Duncan in 98'



That team didn't have talent - a simple dunker was their 2nd option - they won via teamwork/3-peat system, which is why they only needed 22 ppg from Pippen

you have no shame bro. no integrity either, cant admit when you are wrong. :oldlol:


you've been plugging your theory about suboptimal brand of basketball, that specific theory factually blew up in your face (because you refuse to acknowledge talent, which is also the main reason why you are always wrong), and then you just get right back to shifting the goal posts and twisting all of the facts to bolster your agenda after your theory flops - again.


you say jordan won with the least help ever and with no allstars...


just keep doing your thing posting from your basement wearing your 90's bulls pajamas, I'll indulge you whenever I get the chance...


...just remember that it doesnt matter how you try to twist the facts - scottie was an allstar and scottie's bulls did win 55-games without mj and then he beat the sonics and jazz, not the spurs or warriors. "hurr durr STACCKKED team and suboptimal competition" :oldlol:




How bored do you guys gotta be? :lol

very. :oldlol:

[Whoah10115]

There are occasionally good points from both sides.

But ultimately 3ball is going to hate LeBron, claim him a nobody, rank him low, but still rank him top 12 EVER, contradicting everything.

And the other side won't accept any good points because 1. They're so invested in him and 2. 3ball is so receptive and ridiculous that you are some point actually arguing for right.

Like jlauber. He made some great points, but ultimately it's all stats and Wilt would average 70 in the 90s.

A war of attrition...or really of brain cells.

Who can lose more?

[3ball]

.
Reminder: This thread was originally titled "Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers


And this is actually why real players know he's inferior to Kobe and can't deflate defenders like Kobe or instill fear in a defense (command double-teams, since doubles are the only defense against someone hitting contested jumpshots)

Ultimately, long-dribbling, weak shooters are allowed to have the ball and accumulate stats, aka "let him dribble", rather than double-team and face ball movement (this was Stan Van Gundy's successful strategy that first exposed lebron's empty stat style)

[Rico2016]

Social distancing isn't required for me, I never leave my room anyway.

We know

[RRR3]

this is a great list.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRwnoBdVwAA1xNA.jpg
Damn that's way better than I excected from Broussard. Don't agree with it, but it's better than most lists I see.

[3ball]

If it is truly ¨easy to beat¨ then why his inferior brand rewarded LeBron with 8 straight Finals run and 3 titles? Your 1st quote makes no sense. :facepalm Plus, all of his Finals losses contain teams that were garbage on defense. Ex. 2016-17 Cavaliers and 2017-18 Cavaliers finshed 21st and 29th in defense respectively. No championship wins with that defense. You need a team that can do well in offense and defense. You dont get it.



When did he start the Finals streak?.. before or after team-hopping?

team-hopping is how he started the Finals streak - aka he formed a strong team in a conference that didn't require a strong team to win it (many guys were winning with weak casts, aka Dwight, AI, Kidd, Lebron)

So his 8 conference finals in a row mean nothing and you're giving props to a fraud and someone that cheated/stacked the deck in plain view.. no offense, but that's dumb as shit.. good thing the Finals exposed him

And the Cavs had good defensive personnel but Lebron had become one of the worst defenders in the game, which trickled-down.. again, you stan literally the biggest fraud in history.. #2 all-time? Preposterous






Kobe was losing in the Finals until he got Gasol in 2008 and won 1 year later . Historically, teams that won titles are also the most stacked. Your 2nd quote makes no sense to me. The 2008 Celtics won in their 1st year of teaming up also. Its a non-point...



Getting Gasol didn't give Kobe the best roster like Lebron's "decision" did.. No one expected "not 6, not 7" from Gasol..

Yet Kobe dominated and swept the same Spurs in 08' that locked Lebron down in 07' - and he only needed 1 star teammate to beat the Spurs, while Lebron needed 2 stars in 13' and luck to win.. Lebron averaged 25 on 45% compared to Kobe's 29 on 53%.

Kobe simply played much better against the Spurs and needed much less to beat them






The Spurs postseason efficiency was higher than MJs best Finals opponent. What part dont you get?
Lebron's ball-domination let the Spurs' defense rest, so they had more capacity for offense - how is it you don't understand the attrition battle that occurs in every basketball game?

The Spurs only went off on the Heat because the Heat made them work the least

[fourkicks44]

3ball, tell us about the good ol' days when you played with Raja Bell at FIU.

[3ball]

3ball, tell us about the good ol' days when you played with Raja Bell at FIU.
Raj is a tough guy - very sensitive to others slighting him in any way (not because he was insecure but because he was smart and saw thru bullshit), so he would start fights and was the alpha dog of the team.

Him throwing Kobe down like that wasn't a surprise at all.. Infact, I was waiting for something to happen (that was back when basketball was good and competitive and shit popped off all the time)

But I also saw him at a low point. When we played North Carolina in the Dean Dome, it was a massive opportunity for him and Carlos to get national recognition and the game was on Fox Sports Net... He bombed.. Had the worst game of the year. (otoh, Carlos ate Ed Cota alive).. After the game, a teammate and myself came back out of the locker room and walked onto the court to look at the jerseys hanging in the rafters (MJ,Worthy, Perkins, etc).. We saw tough guy Raj crying in his parents arms, apparently thinking he'd blown his shot at the league.

Never give up apparently is the lesson

[fourkicks44]

Raj is a tough guy - very sensitive to others slighting him in any way (not because he was insecure but because he was smart and saw thru bullshit), so he would start fights and was the alpha dog of the team.

Him throwing Kobe down like that wasn't a surprise at all.. Infact, I was waiting for something to happen (that was back when basketball was good and competitive and shit popped off all the time)

But I also saw him at a low point. When we played North Carolina in the Dean Dome, it was a massive opportunity for him and Carlos to get national recognition and the game was on Fox Sports Net... He bombed.. Had the worst game of the year. (otoh, Carlos ate Ed Cota alive).. After the game, a teammate and myself walked out onto the court to look at the jerseys hanging in the rafters (MJ,Worthy, Perkins, etc) and we saw tough guy Raj crying in his parents arms, apparently thinking he'd blown his shot at the league.

Never give up apparently is the lesson

F(cking good ol 3ball. Just when I thought you were done and irrelevant on this message board you share this little gem :cheers:

I'm looking for the box score right now, you crazy ol cat.

[fourkicks44]

5 stars!

[fourkicks44]

Raj is a tough guy - very sensitive to others slighting him in any way (not because he was insecure but because he was smart and saw thru bullshit), so he would start fights and was the alpha dog of the team.

Him throwing Kobe down like that wasn't a surprise at all.. Infact, I was waiting for something to happen (that was back when basketball was good and competitive and shit popped off all the time)

But I also saw him at a low point. When we played North Carolina in the Dean Dome, it was a massive opportunity for him and Carlos to get national recognition and the game was on Fox Sports Net... He bombed.. Had the worst game of the year. (otoh, Carlos ate Ed Cota alive).. After the game, a teammate and myself came back out of the locker room and walked onto the court to look at the jerseys hanging in the rafters (MJ,Worthy, Perkins, etc).. We saw tough guy Raj crying in his parents arms, apparently thinking he'd blown his shot at the league.

Never give up apparently is the lesson
Mon, Nov 16, 1998

[red1]

3ball is always talking about team hopping and so-called stacked teams


meanwhile jordan went 1-9 without pippen


and the bulls won 55-games without mike playing a single second:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1994.html




did they even need that guy? I think they could've won a championship without him if they kept trying.


the bulls winning 72-games in 96 - jordan didn't even add 20 wins. they already won 50+ games without him.

[red1]

jordan never beat a 70-win team.

[red1]

mike's stacked bulls ganged up on the jazz and sonics who weren't nearly as stacked as his team.


go look at the overall talent level of the teams that mike beat in the finals. it takes a lot of the sheen off of the six rings. the teams weren't nearly as stacked as the bulls.


especially considering pippen is the greatest sidekick of all time.

[red1]

When did he start the Finals streak?.. before or after team-hopping?

team-hopping is how he started the Finals streak - aka he formed a strong team in a conference that didn't require a strong team to win it (many guys were winning with weak casts, aka Dwight, AI, Kidd, Lebron)

So his 8 conference finals in a row mean nothing and you're giving props to a fraud and someone that cheated/stacked the deck in plain view.. no offense, but that's dumb as shit.. good thing the Finals exposed him

And the Cavs had good defensive personnel but Lebron had become one of the worst defenders in the game, which trickled-down.. again, you stan literally the biggest fraud in history.. #2 all-time? Preposterous




Getting Gasol didn't give Kobe the best roster like Lebron's "decision" did.. No one expected "not 6, not 7" from Gasol..

Yet Kobe dominated and swept the same Spurs in 08' that locked Lebron down in 07' - and he only needed 1 star teammate to beat the Spurs, while Lebron needed 2 stars in 13' and luck to win.. Lebron averaged 25 on 45% compared to Kobe's 29 on 53%.

Kobe simply played much better against the Spurs and needed much less to beat them




Lebron's ball-domination let the Spurs' defense rest, so they had more capacity for offense - how is it you don't understand the attrition battle that occurs in every basketball game?

The Spurs only went off on the Heat because the Heat made them work the least

how come you cant admit when you are wrong? stop peddling your shitty theories dude. you already got proven wrong 3 times.


"buh buh buh ray allen" and "buh buh kyrie" are very weak arguments.


just deal with it bitch. more rings than kg barkley and dirk combined. you tried to say he wouldnt even retire top-15, had all of those guys over him and your only argument was "rings as the man hurr durr stacked team doesnt count" - **** outta here bitch suck these nuts, you lose I win. :roll:


"buh buh kyrie" :roll:


https://i.gifer.com/YmBv.gif

[Turbo Slayer]

When did he start the Finals streak?.. before or after team-hopping?

team-hopping is how he started the Finals streak - aka he formed a strong team in a conference that didn't require a strong team to win it (many guys were winning with weak casts, aka Dwight, AI, Kidd, Lebron)

So his 8 conference finals in a row mean nothing and you're giving props to a fraud and someone that cheated/stacked the deck in plain view.. no offense, but that's dumb as shit.. good thing the Finals exposed him

And the Cavs had good defensive personnel but Lebron had become one of the worst defenders in the game, which trickled-down.. again, you stan literally the biggest fraud in history.. #2 all-time? Preposterous



Getting Gasol didn't give Kobe the best roster
st roster like Lebron's "decision" did.. No one expected "not 6, not 7" from Gasol..

Yet Kobe dominated and swept the same Spurs in 08' that locked Lebron down in 07' - and he only needed 1 star teammate to beat the Spurs, while Lebron needed 2 stars in 13' and luck to win.. Lebron averaged 25 on 45% compared to Kobe's 29 on 53%.

Kobe simply played much better against the Spurs and needed much less to beat them




Lebron's ball-domination let the Spurs' defense rest, so they had more capacity for offense - how is it you don't understand the attrition battle that occurs in every basketball game?

The Spurs only went off on the Heat because the Heat made them work the least

1. Narratives are irrelevant. ¨Team hopping¨ are irrelevant to what happens on-court. So most titles are irrelevant? I take that your criteria is flawed.

The Kyrie and Love pairing is overrated. Yes they were good offensively but they didnt match defensively. Stop lying. The Cavs were ranked 18th, 10th, 21st, and 29th in defense in 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018. My point nullifies your point about the Cavs being good in defense as a team so your point fails... Try again.

It may work on some posters dumber than me but I know everything.

2. Answer my question. What supporting cast were better than Kobe´s in 09 and 10?

Yes it did! Having Gasol boosted the Lakers tremendously. They ranked 2nd, 3rd and 5th in SRS and were one of the best offensive and defensive teams in those years...

You are setting arbitary definitions.

So your point fails once again. Try again. :facepalm

3. Kobe dominated the Spurs b/c he had a better cast than LeBrons what part dont you get?

[Turbo Slayer]

SAME POST 3. LeBron didnt dominate the Spurs in 2007 compared to Kobe b/c he had a inferior supporting cast.

The 2007 Cavs team in the team gave up 104 Ortg to the Spurs and their offense and defense were inferior to the Spurs in 2007.

[3ball]

1. Narratives are irrelevant. ¨Team hopping¨ are irrelevant to what happens on-court. So most titles are irrelevant? I take that your criteria is flawed.

The Kyrie and Love pairing is overrated. Yes they were good offensively but they didnt match defensively. Stop lying. The Cavs were ranked 18th, 10th, 21st, and 29th in defense in 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018. My point nullifies your point about the Cavs being good in defense as a team so your point fails... Try again.

It may work on some posters dumber than me but I know everything.

2. Answer my question. What supporting cast were better than Kobe´s in 09 and 10?

Yes it did! Having Gasol boosted the Lakers tremendously. They ranked 2nd, 3rd and 5th in SRS and were one of the best offensive and defensive teams in those years...

You are setting arbitary definitions.

So your point fails once again. Try again. :facepalm

3. Kobe dominated the Spurs b/c he had a better cast than LeBrons what part dont you get?
So you're calling the historical record a "narrative" now?

Lebron's 8 Finals happened after he formed a strong team in a conference that didn't require a strong team to win it - there were no weak teams winning the West - only the East, yet Lebron formed a strong team/stacked the deck in a weak conference.. aka cheated in plain view yet you respect him

Secondly...... MJ lit that fire and set an example defensively, which galvanized weak athletes like Kerr, Paxson, Wennington and Kukoc to play good defense.. Otoh, Lebron can't get superior athletes like Shumpert, George Hill, Crowder, Jeff Green, JR Smith, or Hood to play good defense because he himself is a matador.

Specifically, Lebron had superior rim protection, more defensive rebounders, and more athletic guards, yet he couldn't get this group of superior athletes to play good defense.. you'll claim that MJ had all-defender teammates (Pippen, Grant), but Lebron had more (Hughes, Varejao, Battier, Wade), along with more rim protection, more athletic guards and more defensive rebounders.

So MJ was a superior leader on both ends

Finally, Kobe had an equal or worse roster than the 2010 Celtics, 2008 Spurs, and 2008 Celtics... More importantly, Lebron never had a worse roster than anyone, except maybe 2007, 2015, and 2018 Finals.

[Turbo Slayer]

Lebron's ball-domination let the Spurs' defense rest, so they had more capacity for offense - how is it you don't understand the attrition battle that occurs in every basketball game?

The Spurs only went off on the Heat because the Heat made them work the least The problem with you is that you never consider defense. The Heat were torched b/c of defense. Defense was the problem.

[Turbo Slayer]

So you're calling the historical record a "narrative" now?

Lebron's 8 Finals happened after he formed a strong team in a conference that didn't require a strong team to win it - there were no weak teams winning the West - only the East, yet Lebron formed a strong team/stacked the deck in a weak conference.. aka cheated in plain view yet you respect him

Secondly...... MJ lit that fire and set an example defensively, which galvanized weak athletes like Kerr, Paxson, Wennington and Kukoc to play good defense.. Otoh, Lebron can't get superior athletes like Shumpert, George Hill, Crowder, Jeff Green, JR Smith, or Hood to play good defense because he himself is a matador.

Specifically, Lebron had superior rim protection, more defensive rebounders, and more athletic guards, yet he couldn't get this group of superior athletes to play good defense.. you'll claim that MJ had all-defender teammates (Pippen, Grant), but Lebron had more (Hughes, Varejao, Battier, Wade), along with more rim protection, more athletic guards and more defensive rebounders.

So MJ was a superior leader on both ends

Finally, Kobe had an equal or worse roster than the 2010 Celtics, 2008 Spurs, and 2008 Celtics... More importantly, Lebron never had a worse roster than anyone, except maybe 2007, 2015, and 2018 Finals.

1. Almost everyone needs help to get over the hump. Almost everybody teamed up or formed strong teams. Jordan couldnt win until he got Pippen an alltime great and a team that was capable of winning 50 games without him and MJ is the GOAT in my opinion.

Titles have been won with stacked teams throughout history. You are denying this which you cant handle reality.

2. Again...irrelevant. You are just telling arbitrary statements that doesnt mean anything. Try again.

Yes MJ is the GOAT. Theres no need to state it. Also, I never claimed that MJ had all-defender teammates. Someone must have said it. So its a non-point and it doesnt apply to me.

4. Again your argument fails. How are the Lakers had worst rosters than the Celtics, Spurs if they won against them? Your point makes no sense.

The 2008 Lakers were also better than the Spurs in defense, offense, and SRS. So your point fails there also.



The 2010 Lakers were better in terms of offense/defense and SRS than the 2010 Celtics. BTW the 2010 Celtics didnt have a real 1st option. Also the Celtics were suffering b/c of older Pierce and post injury KG so your argument fails in that department too.

The Laker werent better than the Celtics in 2008 b/c the Celtics had the Big 3 and a better supporting cast so they dismantled the Lakers in 5 games.

[3ball]

The problem with you is that you never consider defense. The Heat were torched b/c of defense. Defense was the problem.
Remember when Pippen led the Bulls in scoring in Game 5 of the 91' Finals?

It's no coincidence that his best scoring game occurred in a game where he didn't guard Magic at all.. This allowed him to go off on offense.

That's how basketball works - again, the Spurs only went off on the Heat because the Heat made them work the least (scored the least against them)

[LAmbruh]

5 stars!

:roll:

[Manny98]

Remember when Pippen led the Bulls in scoring in Game 5 of the 91' Finals?

It's no coincidence that his best scoring game occurred in a game where he didn't guard Magic at all.. This allowed him to go off on offense.

That's how basketball works - again, the Spurs only went off on the Heat because the Heat made them work the least (scored the least against them)

No it isn't because he still played hard on defense that game, playing the passing lanes with 5 steals and he still guarded Magic on a couple of possessions

You say anything to try and discredit Pippen :facepalm

[Turbo Slayer]

3ball logged off! :roll:

3ball couldnt refute my argument.

I always win no matter what. :banana:

[LAmbruh]

3ball logged off! :roll:

3ball couldnt refute my argument.

I always win no matter what. :banana:

:lebronamazed::hammertime:

[3ball]

1. Almost everyone needs help to get over the hump. Almost everybody teamed up or formed strong teams. Jordan couldnt win until he got Pippen an alltime great and a team that was capable of winning 50 games without him and MJ is the GOAT in my opinion



Everyone needs help, but MJ just needed less:

- he didn't need a 3rd scorer like Lebron

- he didn't need an equal-scoring and usage closer like Lebron

- he didn't need elite defensive help (won with #7 defense in 91' and 93.... every conference finals or Finals opponent had better defense during 1st three-peat, and except the Suns)






Titles have been won with stacked teams throughout history. You are denying this which you cant handle reality.



Stacked teams don't go 3/7 like Lebron did from 11-17'

And even if you remove 15' due to injury, that's still only 3/6 with stacked teams, aka nowhere near goat

#LeOverrated






How are the Lakers had worst rosters than the Celtics, Spurs if they won against them?



It's called an "upset".... :hammerhead:... are you high or something?

For example, the Mavs had a worse roster but beat the 11' Heat

Or the 89' Bulls had a lottery cast but beat the #1 SRS Cavs and their Big 4

Or when MJ finally beat the Pistons - Isiah/Dumars/Rodman/Laimbeer/Aguirre were 3x all-stars, while MJ only had 1 all-star teammate






The 2008 Lakers were also better than the Spurs in defense, offense, and SRS. So your point fails there also.



08' Spurs were defending champs, so their regular season stats are always a bit lower than the championship year





The 2010 Lakers were better in terms of offense/defense and SRS than the 2010 Celtics. BTW the 2010 Celtics didnt have a real 1st option. Also the Celtics were suffering b/c of older Pierce and post injury KG so your argument fails in that department too.



^^^ So the 10' Celtics sucked, yet Lebron lost as a huge favorite and all the advantages Kobe had (superior SRS, etc)

Lebron had 2 all-star caliber players in Jamison/Mo (Kobe only had 1 in Gasol), an all-defender in Varajao, and superior depth - but he still lost as the heavy favorite because lebron was mentally-fragile, aka quit after finding out his fully-grown Mom was dating... pathetic

[Turbo Slayer]

Everyone needs help, but MJ just needed less:

- he didn't need a 3rd scorer like Lebron

- he didn't need an equal-scoring and usage closer like Lebron

- he didn't need elite defensive help (won with #7 defense in 91' and 93.... every conference finals or Finals opponent had better defense during 1st three-peat, and except the Suns)




Stacked teams don't go 3/7 like Lebron did from 11-17'

And even if you remove 15' due to injury, that's still only 3/6 with stacked teams, aka nowhere near goat

#LeOverrated




It's called an "upset".... :hammerhead:... are you high or something?

For example, the Mavs had a worse roster but beat the 11' Heat

Or the 89' Bulls had a lottery cast but beat the #1 SRS Cavs and their Big 4

Or when MJ finally beat the Pistons - Isiah/Dumars/Rodman/Laimbeer/Aguirre were 3x all-stars, while MJ only had 1 all-star teammate




08' Spurs were defending champs, so their regular season stats are always a bit lower than the championship year



^^^ So the 10' Celtics sucked, yet Lebron lost as a huge favorite and all the advantages Kobe had (superior SRS, etc)

Lebron had 2 all-star caliber players in Jamison/Mo (Kobe only had 1 in Gasol), an all-defender in Varajao, and superior depth - but he still lost as the heavy favorite because lebron was mentally-fragile, aka quit after finding out his fully-grown Mom was dating... pathetic

1. Again, noone debates this. MJ is the GOAT. No one needs you to remind everyone again... :facepalm

2. The 2016-17 and 2017-18 Cavs faced far more superior teams aka the 2017 and 2018 Warriors that were were much better in SRS, offense, and defense. In 2007 LeBron James had a team that was subpar in offense and defense compared to the Spurs... That was 3 Finals losses that where opposing teams simply had better supporting casts than LeBrons...

3. What are you talking about??? :confusedshrug:

4. The Cavs were relying on LeBron James to do everything. I admit that LeBron James quit/choked that series but none of his supporting cast showed up. Their defense was awful that series.

[sdot_thadon]

that thread title is fire.....:lol

[Turbo Slayer]

You diss LeBron for not being a shooter all the time yet LeBron James shoots better than Kobe (who is considered a great shooter by 3ball .ie you) on greater amounts of attempts. Not lying.

EDIT: Logging off to wash the dishes. I be back later.

[3ball]

2. 2017 and 2018 Warriors that were were much better in SRS, offense, and defense



Lebron/Kyrie/Love should be enough to face KD/Curry/Klay

The other players are mostly role players that would otherwise cancel out if not for brand of ball considerations, aka dray is far less without the system and probably would've developed as a spot-up shooter alongside lebron.

So the 2017 Cavs had enough to defeat the Warriors, if not for brand of ball considerations that simply made the Warriors a much better team than the Cavs.






2. 2017 Warriors that were much better



what if Lebron holds KD to 25 ppg, like KD's regular season average? That seems like a reasonable request.. Cavs would've won the series... :confusedshrug:...

So why did lebron let Durant get 35 on goat efficiency?.. Lebron was the only Cav that let his man get above their regular season average, so the margin of loss would've been made up by just holding Durant to normal averages.... :facepalm:..

So lebron's horrific defense is what allowed the impossible, aka wasting the goat sidekick performance (Kyrie's 29 ppg)





In 2007 LeBron James had a team that was subpar in offense and defense compared to the Spurs...



He had a worse team in the 07' Finals, but was also locked down - getting locked down is ALWAYS a black mark on a career





That was 3 Finals losses that where opposing teams simply had better supporting casts than LeBrons...



Only 2 Finals, and both are still black marks because he was locked down (07') and lost by record amount (18').

And 17' is a double whammy - he had a good enough cast and his defense allowed KD to exceed regular season averages by the margin of loss (Cavs win if lebron plays normal defense on KD instead of getting destroyed)





2. 2017 Warriors



i just realized that Durant's 35 ppg and great efficiency is Jordan-level, especially against a so-called goat and supposed era-dominator like Lebron...

So does that mean Durant = Jordan and therefore superior to Lebron?... have I just rationalized Durant back into the top 10 and ahead of Lebron?..

Indeed, 35 ppg against a prime Big 3, defending champion, and so-called goat is vastly underrated... So I guess you convinced me - KD is #10 all-time and Lebron is #11 with Kawhi closing fast.





4. The Cavs were relying on LeBron James to do everything. I admit that LeBron James quit/choked that series but none of his supporting cast showed up. Their defense was awful that series.



It's hard to show up when its needed against a good team when your capacity to step-up has been robbed, aka you've been turned into spot-up shooter, aka bron-ball

[Turbo Slayer]

Lebron/Kyrie/Love should be enough to face KD/Curry/Klay

The other players are mostly role players that would otherwise cancel out if not for brand of ball considerations, aka dray is far less without the system and probably would've developed as a spot-up shooter alongside lebron.

So the 2017 Cavs had enough to defeat the Warriors, if not for brand of ball




what if Lebron holds KD to 25 ppg, like KD's regular season average? That seems like a reasonable request.. Cavs would've won the series... :confusedshrug:...

So why did lebron let Durant get 35 on goat efficiency?.. Lebron was the only Cav that let his man get above their regular season average, so the margin of loss would've been made up by just holding Durant to normal averages.... :facepalm:..

So lebron's horrific defense is what allowed the impossible, aka wasting the goat sidekick performance (Kyrie's 29 ppg)



He had a worse team in the 07' Finals, but was also locked down - getting locked down is ALWAYS a black mark on a career



Only 2 Finals, and both are still black marks because he was locked down (07') and lost by record amount (18').

And 17' is a double whammy - he had a good enough cast and his defense allowed KD to exceed regular season averages by the margin of loss (Cavs win if lebron plays normal defense on KD instead of getting destroyed)



i just realized that Durant's 35 ppg and great efficiency is Jordan-level, especially against a so-called goat and supposed era-dominator like Lebron...

So does that mean Durant = Jordan and therefore superior to Lebron?... have I just rationalized Durant back into the top 10 and ahead of Lebron?..

Indeed, 35 ppg against a prime Big 3, defending champion, and so-called goat is vastly underrated... So I guess you convinced me - KD is #10 all-time and Lebron is #11 with Kawhi closing fast.



It's hard to show up when its needed against a good team when your capacity to step-up has been robbed, aka you've been turned into spot-up shooter, aka bron-ball

1. KD was a bad matchup for LeBron. LeBron was shouldering most of the load. Cavs were worst without LeBron off the court vs LeBron on the court. LeBron also was averaging the most minutes in the 2017 postseason (41 minutes per game). To put it simply, he was tired because he was forced to play hard on offense to keep up. He was fatigued.

What more can you expect more from James??? :facepalm He averaged a 30 point triple double throughout the Finals.

Durant also had the luxury of 2 great shooters (Klay and Steph) to pass to. He had the luxury of great spacing.

BTW, the rest of the Cavs were garbage on defense. The poor defense allowed Curry and Klay to go off.

2. He was getting locked down b/c none of the Cavs players could offer James offensive help. The team was poor in 3 point shooting and getting points in the paint. It allowed the Spurs to focus on LeBron b/c James had no help. The entire Cavs team gave up 104.4 ORTG due to poor defense.

The Cavs defense and offense were subpar. Dont act like it was only LeBron James fault...

3. Yes, LeBron James didnt have good supporting casts. We discussed this before.

4. Please try to keep your narratives consistent. You blame LeBron for ¨stacking the deck¨ but you dont blame KD for doing it too???

This is going nowhere. LeBron James is easily better than KD. According to your criteria, LeBron James is better than KD b/c he have won more ¨as the man¨ as you would say.

[PeroAntic]

Nobody
No one
Absolutely not a single soul
3ball: Ultimately, Stan van Gundy....

[Turbo Slayer]

Nobody
No one
Absolutely not a single soul
3ball: Ultimately, Stan van Gundy.... :oldlol:

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

[3ball]

1. KD was a bad matchup for LeBron.



lol

lebron can't begin to guard him

guys like Beverly and cp3 did better on Durant, or Tony Allen, so MJ might shut him down even more.. even if MJ can't stop Durant, they don't play the same position.. MJ was never at the mercy of another guard, whereas numerous SF's kill Bron, and he avoids PF's like Duncan or Dirk.





LeBron was shouldering most of the load.



Actually, he had the best help ever (Kyrie's 29 ppg) - highest-ever for a 2nd option

but he blew it by letting Durant get 10 above his normal average - 10 points was more than the average margin of loss, so lebron simply needed to hold Durant to his normal averages for the Cavs to win - this makes:sense because 29 ppg should be enough help to win.

He also blew it by employing a "your-turn-my-turn" approach with Kyrie, which was predictable and didn't make the opponent's work/adjust or wear them down defensively.. so they had more capacity for offense and played above their normal level..

Lebron's slow ball-domination doesn't apply as much pressure as the zippy ball movement he faces at the championship level, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off on offense.. that's why opponents always seem to play great offensively against bron





he was tired



MJ and Kobe had to do all that too - MJ had to score much more infact, with higher usage and much higher shot attempts or clutch shot attempts

getting 3-5 more points per game over thousands of games really adds up and takes a toll





He averaged a 30 point triple double throughout the Finals.



92' Finals..... 92 pace... 110.8 drtg... Jordan 35.6 ppg.. 34.2% of pts
93' Finals..... 89 pace... 113.0 drtg... Jordan 41.0 ppg.. 38.3% of pts
98' Finals..... 82 pace... 105.0 drtg... Jordan 33.6 ppg.. 38.3% of pts

17' Finals... 100 pace... 114.6 drtg... Lebron 33.6 ppg.. 29.2% of pts


Lebron's 33.6 was weak considering the fast and easy scoring (high pace and ortg).. he also carried a smaller load (% of pts) and basically had an equal-scoring partner, while MJ carried a record load and scored 15-20 more than his sidekick.





Durant also had the luxury of 2 great shooters and great spacing (Klay and Steph)



Lebron had 2 great shooters too in Kyrie and Love

Lebron also had great spacing and 3-point shooting





2. he got locked down in 07' because none of the Cavs players could offer James offensive help. The team was poor in 3 point shooting



The 86' Bulls were a 30-win, 8 seed and had less help and spacing then the 50-win, 2-seeded Cavs from 07'

yet MJ averaged 44 on 50% against the #1 defense in the league (celts), while lebron was at 22 on 36% vs spurs..

MJ accomplished this on mostly jumpers (like all big games), and lebron is several dimensions lower as a jumpshooter

So your excuses are lame.. lebron got locked up in the 08' ecsf too - what's your excuse for that?.. his teammates played great to extend the peak celts to 7 games DESPITE bron's aids



CONTINUED....
.

[3ball]

.
CONTINUED...





The Cavs defense and offense were subpar. Dont act like it was only LeBron James fault...



If the best player is playing among the worst defense in the league, then the team CANNOT be good defensively.





3. Yes, LeBron James didnt have good supporting casts. .. We discussed this before.



His casts were good relative to the conference - no one had a good team many years and weak casts were routinely winning the East (Dwight, AI, Kidd, etc)





4. Please try to keep your narratives consistent. You blame LeBron for ¨stacking the deck¨ but you dont blame KD for doing it too???



KD got an advantage, but he was just offsetting lebron's edge from 11-14' (and the 15' Cavs were league favorites in the pre-season and pre-playoffs before Kyrie's injury).





This is going nowhere. LeBron James is easily better than KD. According to your criteria, LeBron James is better than KD b/c he have won more ¨as the man¨ as you would say.



No KD is better because he's a better scorer and shooter (better skillset) and smashed Bron heads-up..

KD beat more talent than Lebron ever did, aka Lebron/Kyrie/Love is a better prize than beating Curry/Klay
..

[RRR3]

3ball is a very sick man. Just stop it already.

[3ball]

3ball is a very sick man. Just stop it already.
Who stop it.. me or the mod who changed the title

I was just trying to make a simple point that lebron doesn't take contested jumpers, which is a massive leak and extremely exploitable..

There's no defense for contested jumpshooters, so they command a double.. A weak shooter doesn't command a double, especially if they're a long dribbler, which is preferred by opposing coaches over double-teaming and facing ball movement - Kerr snd SVG said they preferred to "let him dribble" rather than face ball movement.

Ultimately, Lebron's low adjustment weak shooting and long-dribbling doesn't wear down defenses like the zippy ball movement he faces at the championship level, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off offensively (14' Finals - lebron couldn't fight fire with fire)

It's funny because some coaches would be so mind-f*cked vs Kobe that they'd start doubling him before he got hot or even got going at all.. or they'd double when he was frigid (end of 10' Finals).. that's the kind of control and fear/strategic confusion that a potential hot hand can cause, aka win the attrition battle.. Kobe was so deadly that coaches preferred doubling and facing ball movement

[Turbo Slayer]

lol

l




Lebron's 33.6 was weak considering the fast and easy scoring (high pace and ortg).. he also carried a smaller load (% of pts) and basically had an equal-scoring partner, while MJ carried a record load and scored 15-20 more than his sidekick.



Lebron had 2 great shooters too in Kyrie and Love

Lebron also had great spacing and 3-point shooting



The 86' Bulls were a 30-win, 8 seed and had less help and spacing then the 50-win, 2-seeded Cavs from 07'

yet MJ averaged 44 on 50% against the #1 defense in the league (celts), while lebron was at 22 on 36% vs spurs..

MJ accomplished this on mostly jumpers (like all big games), and lebron is several dimensions lower as a jumpshooter

So your excuses are lame.. lebron got locked up in the 08' ecsf too - what's your excuse for that?.. his teammates played great to extend the peak celts to 7 games DESPITE bron's aids



CONTINUED....
.

1. Beverly and CP3 did not "shut down" KD better than LeBron did. KD went off in both Warriors vs Rockets playoffs (2018 and 2019) averaging around 32 points. So CP3 did not "shut down" KD. Tony Allen allowed 30 points from KD.

Beverly? Please... Beverly did no better than LeBron. KD was "shut down" by Beverly by scoring 35 points on his head. Once again, your argument fails. Try again.

LeBron James isnt a good defender? Man here we go... In 2013, the Heat allowed less points with James on the floor(allowed less 3.4 points per 100 possessions). James allowed a mere .84 points per possession while on defense.

BTW in 2013 Tony Allen was the leading vote getter for the NBA All-Defensive team and he doesnt have the same impact as James when guarding post-ups. James allowed .85 in those situations compared to Tony Allen...

James allowed 0.77 points when defending the roll man in 2013. So your point is flawed and shaky. Try again.

2. Kyrie was worst defensively than LBJ, KD, Curry etc.. contradicting your statement "best help ever."

He blew it with KD b/c he was tired and had to go hard offensively or else everything falls apart. LBJ literally played the most minutes in the 2017 Playoffs. He was fatigued guarding KD.

The offense is NOT the problem. The problem was defense. The Cavs gave up 121.3 ORTG higher than league average. Again offense was not the problem.

3. Again the offensive style is NOT the problem. In 14/17/18 he got torched b/c his teams werent playing better defense then their rivals.

4. MJ is the GOAT. Not sure why this needs explaining.

5. Yes Love and Kyrie were great shooters but were poor defensively than Steph and Klay.

6. LeBron James scored 45 points in Game 7 with heroic efforts. The Celtics formed their Big 3...

BTW whats the excuse for Kobe losing in 2008 Celtics in 5 games when the Cavs and the Hawks took the 2008 Celtics to 7 games with much worst/inferior supporting casts? Your point fails again.

EDIT: I had to remove most of 3balls post due to # of characters (letters) allowed...

[RRR3]

Sick in the head. Absolutely sick. On his way to another ban, but he just can't stop. ADDICTED to LeBron.

[Axe]

3ball is a very sick man. Just stop it already.
Not a new stuff anymore rofl.

[RRR3]

Not a new stuff anymore rofl.
He hasn't had new stuff in quite some time.

[Axe]

He hasn't had new stuff in quite some time.
Yeah but too bad nothing will burn down his persistence here unless he gets banishment from time to time.

[Turbo Slayer]

.
CONTINUED...



If the best player is playing among the worst defense in the league, then the team CANNOT be good defensively.



His casts were good relative to the conference - no one had a good team many years and weak casts were routinely winning the East (Dwight, AI, Kidd, etc)



KD got an advantage, but he was just offsetting lebron's edge from 11-14' (and the 15' Cavs were league favorites in the pre-season and pre-playoffs before Kyrie's injury).



No KD is better because he's a better scorer and shooter (better skillset) and smashed Bron heads-up..

KD beat more talent than Lebron ever did, aka Lebron/Kyrie/Love is a better prize than beating Curry/Klay
..

1. Ok??? And what this supposed to mean...??? :confusedshrug:

2. How about the Boston Big 3? Arent you forgetting that? :oldlol:

3. Good, you admitted that KD had a stacked team. Bravo! :applause:

4. Despite KD being a "better" scorer and "skillset" LeBron wins every single time.

Lets do your fav comparison. Points per 100 possessions and to sweeten the deal abit... in the Playoffs.

LeBron James- 37.2 points per 100 possessions

KD- 36.9 per 100 possessions

Not to mention that LeBron shoots better from 2 point land on greater attempts. The only knock on LeBron is FT and 3 point shots and LeBron is still the superior scorer despite having the "inferior" skillset. :rockon:

[FromDowntown]

Have we ever been able to conclude what was MJ's best ring? I know it's nothing compared to 12, 13, or 16 LBJ, BUT just curious at this point.

[Turbo Slayer]

KD beat more talent than Lebron ever did, aka Lebron/Kyrie/Love is a better prize than beating Curry/Klay

My gosh. :facepalm What a terrible post. The 2016-17 Cavs were worst defensively and offensively and had a worst SRS than the 2015-16 Warriors. Also GSW shattered the record for most wins in a season aka 73 wins...

Your point is invalid and inconclusive.

So LeBron beat more while KD beat less...

[Turbo Slayer]

No KD is better because he's a better scorer and shooter (better skillset) After I decimated your argument in my previous posts (#170, #175, and #177) I noticed that you are shifting your criteria and narrative...

At least try to be consistent. At 1 point you try to argue that X player is better b/c he won more as the "man" and another point is that X player is best b/c he scores the more points or has the optimal "skill-set" ... WHAT??????

Your silly arguments are confusing and makes little sense to me. Just... try to be consistent.

Your arguments may work with other posters but it wont with me. Its just dumb...

[FromDowntown]

My gosh. :facepalm What a terrible post. The 2016-17 Cavs were worst defensively and offensively and had a worst SRS than the 2015-16 Warriors. Also GSW shattered the record for most wins in a season aka 73 wins...

Your point is invalid and inconclusive.

So LeBron beat more while KD beat less...

Ouch :lol

[Turbo Slayer]

Ouch :lol Thanks!

[Vino24]

3ball is in heaven with these replies. If we weren’t all quarantined he wouldn’t get the time of day from us

[Rico2016]

Have we ever been able to conclude what was MJ's best ring? I know it's nothing compared to 12, 13, or 16 LBJ, BUT just curious at this point.

I've been waiting as well...

[3ball]

The 2016-17 Cavs were worst defensively and offensively and had a worst SRS than the 2015-16 Warriors.




It's Lebron's fault that he only won 51 games with prime Kyrie/Love in 2017 - a despicable record that you're ignoring even though the cast of Kyrie/Love was originally favored in 2015 over Curry's cast, both in Vegas and by the world's most respected statisticians:


https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fi.makeagif.com%2Fmedia %2F11-15-2019%2FhYQBCO.gif

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/superteams-like-the-warriors-usually-underperform-will-the-kevin-durant-era-be-different/


So it isn't my opinion that Lebron's cast is a bigger prize than Curry's - it's the conclusion of Vegas and the world's best statisticians - therefore it's Lebron's fault for taking this superior on-paper talent and making it a massive underdog...

Again, Lebron's 17' cast is a bigger prize than Curry's 16 on paper, according to Vegas and statisticians.

And notice how the chart shows Lebron's teams underachieving their OFFENSIVE expectation, aka bron-ball






The 2016-17 Cavs were worst defensively and offensively and had a worst SRS than the 2015-16 Warriors.



It's Lebron's fault that he only won 51 games and low ratings with prime Kyrie and Love - that's a despicable record with those guys and drastic underachievement

On paper, Lebron had a 60-70 win team - the cast of Kyrie/Love was originally favored when assembled in 15' before the Kyrie injury and subsequent underachievement in the 16' and 17' regular season.

For you to ignore this is ridiculous bias and blindness






The 2016-17 Cavs were worst defensively and offensively and had a worst SRS than the 2015-16 Warriors.



the "comp" argument is bogus because Lebron's teams were initially favored on paper (including Vegas), but became underdogs by underperforming the regular season compared to peers (kawhi/curry flirting with 70 wins, while lebron's initially-favored casts win 51).. only lebron had "not 6, not 7" casts

Remember, the 2015 Cavs were the pre-season and pre-playoffs favorite before the Kyrie injury - so on 2 separate occasions, lebron landed on teams that were favored to win the title in Year 1, which is obviously an easier path than building favorite status over several years.

[Axe]

Yeah, the cavs could have won more games during those years but their head coach from 2016-18 simply sucked.

[3ball]

Yeah, the cavs could have won more games during those years but their head coach from 2016-18 simply sucked.
That's no excuse because he rejected coaching from everyone, including Walton (https://sports.yahoo.com/lebron-james-reportedly-ignoring-luke-waltons-play-calls-nobodys-surprise-210514450.html), Lue (http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/lebron-james-attitude-listen-to-tyronne-lue-cavs-heat-david-blatt/hjmyp8w984gi1xkzex534zc19), Blatt (https://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/12/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-david-blatt-rift), and Spolestra (https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/fl-miami-heat-news-0402-20150401-story.html)

He always ran lebron-ball instead of getting coached, so the next Phil Jackson wasn't allowed

Blatt was a great coach that wanted to run a ball-movement system (a variation of the Princeton offense), but Lebron rejected it, thereby rejecting the highest possible team ceiling that would result in better Finals records and more favorite status.. he wouldn't need as much "help" if he had a "system"

MJ would've accepted Blatt's system like he dud the triangle and would've had much better odds or favorite status heading into the Finals

[1987_Lakers]

LeBron won a chip, beating a 73 win team his own way, basically told Blatt to GTFO and still won, Alpha.

MJ didn't win shit without Phil, never won it his way.

[3ball]

LeBron won a chip, beating a 73 win team his own way, basically told Blatt to GTFO and still won, Alpha.

MJ didn't win shit without Phil, never won it his way.
The Clippers went 10-72 one year - what if they had celebrated win #10 as if they were consistent winners and 82-0?

Sounds crazy, right?

That's what Lebron fans do - Lebron is the biggest loser ever in the modern era of the Finals (18-32 overall).. his teams are the "clippers" of the Finals - but his fans be like, "we mostly lose, but remember that ONE TIME it all came together and we won!?"

:rolleyes:

Ultimately, what's better:

1) being a perennial favorite and winning most years

2) being a perennial underdog and loser but getting to celebrate "remember that 1 time we won"


Btw, Phil needed MJ.or an MJ clone to win all 11 rings... MJ was the goat candidate in 1991 and Phil was the rookie, nobody coach that inherited a team already on the cusp of the Finals.. MJ made Phil, not the other way around

[No Sir]

LeBron won a chip, beating a 73 win team his own way, basically told Blatt to GTFO and still won, Alpha.

MJ didn't win shit without Phil, never won it his way.
LeHardestRoad. MJ needs a top tier system to succeed. Lebron won 3 with no system:bowdown:

[1987_Lakers]

LeHardestRoad. MJ needs a top tier system to succeed. Lebron won 3 with no system:bowdown:

:bowdown:

[SouBeachTalents]

The Clippers went 10-72 one year - what if they had celebrated win #10 as if they were consistent winners and 82-0?

Sounds crazy, right?

That's what Lebron fans do - Lebron is the biggest loser ever in the modern era of the Finals (18-32 overall).. his teams are the "clippers" of the Finals - but his fans be like, "we mostly lose, but remember that ONE TIME it all came together and we won!?"

:rolleyes:

Ultimately, what's better:

1) being a perennial favorite and winning most years

2) being a perennial underdog and loser but getting to celebrate "remember that 1 time we won"


Bron fans are so sad
3ball still sounds very upset about 2016

[3ball]

3ball still sounds very upset about 2016
Not at all

I'm happy for Kyrie - he was the equal-scoring and usage closer that Lebron always needs to win a ring

Lebron can't dominate his team's scoring column and win because too many lebron buckets means too much long-dribbling and predictable shot allocations - so lebron can't beat good teams with scoring (never beat a good team with 35+ ppg) and needs an equal-scoring and usage teammate to win

Otoh, MJ's scoring was done optimally (quickly with good shooting and unpredictable shot allocations), so the more the better

This graphic shows that the more the bulls got of MJ's optimal scoring style - the more they won:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PGxiSKU2yss&t=05m49s

[1987_Lakers]

Not at all

I'm happy for Kyrie - he was the equal-scoring and usage closer that Lebron always needs to win a ring

Lebron can't dominate his team's scoring column and win because too many lebron buckets means too much long-dribbling and predictable shot allocations - so lebron can't beat good teams with scoring (never beat a good team with 35+ ppg) and needs an equal-scoring and usage teammate to win

Otoh, MJ's scoring was done optimally (quickly with good shooting and unpredictable shot allocations), so the more the better

This graphic shows that the more the bulls got of MJ's optimal scoring style - the more they won:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PGxiSKU2yss&t=05m49s

LeBron led every single player in that series in points, rebounds, assists, blocks, & steals. Meanwhile Pippen led the Bulls in assists, rebounds, steals, & blocks in multiple Finals. MJ didn't need a dynamic scorer because he was playing against weaker competition.

[Turbo Slayer]

So it isn't my opinion that Lebron's cast is a bigger prize than Curry's - it's the conclusion of Vegas and the world's best statisticians - therefore it's Lebron's fault for taking this superior on-paper talent and making it a massive underdog...

Again, Lebron's 17' cast is a bigger prize than Curry's 16 on paper, according to Vegas and statisticians.

And notice how the chart shows Lebron's teams underachieving their OFFENSIVE expectation, aka bron-ball[/size][/B]




It's Lebron's fault that he only won 51 games and low ratings with prime Kyrie and Love - that's a despicable record with those guys and drastic underachievement

On paper, Lebron had a 60-70 win team - the cast of Kyrie/Love was originally favored when assembled in 15' before the Kyrie injury and subsequent underachievement in the 16' and 17' regular season.

For you to ignore this is ridiculous bias and blindness




the "comp" argument is bogus because Lebron's teams were initially favored on paper (including Vegas), but became underdogs by underperforming the regular season compared to peers (kawhi/curry flirting with 70 wins, while lebron's initially-favored casts win 51).. only lebron had "not 6, not 7" casts

Remember, the 2015 Cavs were the pre-season and pre-playoffs favorite before the Kyrie injury - so on 2 separate occasions, lebron landed on teams that were favored to win the title in Year 1, which is obviously an easier path than building favorite status over several years.

1. The 2015 Cavs were initially favored on paper at first b/c of LBJ's experience and the offensive Big 3, but you cant just choose to ignore context whenever you feel like it. Nobody expected that the 2013-14 Warriors (6th seed in the West) would suddenly jump to 1st seed after GSW dismissed Mark Jackson and replaced Kerr as HC.


And notice how the chart shows Lebron's teams underachieving their OFFENSIVE expectation, aka bron-ball Thats just silly. How are they underacheiving their "offensive expectations" if they ranked 3rd, 5th, and 3rd again in offensive firepower in 2015, 2016, and 2017. Your point makes no sense and is invalid.


It's Lebron's fault that he only won 51 games with prime Kyrie/Love in 2017 Again you dont ever take things into context. In the 2016-17 season the Cavs suffered alot of injuries. JR Smith missed 3 months, Kevin Love was out appox. 1 month, and Kyrie suffered a hamstring injury.

I am not biased, I am being rational here...

2. How is it LeBron James fault for "underperforming" when GSW and Spurs literally had better defense and SRS during those years.

The Cavs defense in 2017 was trash. It was ranked 21st in the NBA. You just dont win with a cast that is good on offense but subpar on defense. You are literally making no sense. :facepalm

Lets take the late 2000s Suns for example. They were extremely talented on offense but on defense they were mediocore in that department. Guess what the end results are? Disaster b/c of poor defense.

[3ball]

LeBron led every single player in that series in points, rebounds, assists, blocks, & steals. Meanwhile Pippen led the Bulls in assists, rebounds, steals, & blocks in multiple Finals. MJ didn't need a dynamic scorer because he was playing against weaker competition.
Scoring 10-20 more than your sidekick > getting 1-2 more assists or rebounds than teammates, or 0.3 more steals/blocks

And when you say Pippen "led"

It's sneaky because he basically shared the assist load with MJ, just like Lebron shared the scoring load with Kyrie and Wade on many occasion

[RRR3]

3ball says LeBron didn’t win enough but rates Bird and Wilt top 3.


What a massive hypocrite.

[3ball]

3ball says LeBron didn’t win enough but rates Bird and Wilt top 3.


What a massive hypocrite.
3/17 is much worse frequency than Bird

Or any other top 10 candidate

This is especially troubling considering that TWICE he landed on teams favored to win it all in Year 1 of existence (aka the easiest path possible)

His Finals record (3/9 and 18-32 overall) is also the worst ever in the modern era.. an abomination

[Turbo Slayer]

3/17 is much worse frequency than Bird

Or any other top 10 candidate

This is especially troubling considering that TWICE he landed on teams favored to win it all in Year 1 of existence (aka the easiest path possible)

His Finals record (3/9 and 18-32 overall) is also the worst ever in the modern era.. an abomination

Irrelevant. Answer my question: How many players won 3 titles or more as the man?

[RRR3]

He literally has more rings than Wilt. Exposed.

[RRR3]

I like how this dude is acting like Bird was gonna lead any teams to a title if he played longer than he had. His back was shredded he wasn’t leading shit.

[3ball]

Irrelevant. Answer my question: How many players won 3 titles or more as the man?
Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Russell, MJ, Bird, Magic, maybe more

But how many players got extra Finals chances by forming a strong team in a conference that didn't require a strong team to win it? aka the decision

[1987_Lakers]

3ball says LeBron didn’t win enough but rates Bird and Wilt top 3.


What a massive hypocrite.

:oldlol:

[3ball]

He literally has more rings than Wilt. Exposed.
It's s combination of everything

Wilt is #3 in my book because of ungodly athleticism and he's the goat regular season stat producer BY FAR... and he played the best comp ever in the playoffs - he played an 9-HOF team in an 8-team league - if a team had 9 all-stars, we'd expect them to win every year, let alone 9 HOF

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Russell, MJ, Bird, Magic, maybe more

But how many players got extra Finals chances by forming a strong team in a conference that didn't require a strong team to win it? aka the decision
Kobe? GTFOH :oldlol:

[1987_Lakers]

It's s combination of everything

Wilt is #3 in my book because of ungodly athleticism and he's the goat regular season stat producer BY FAR... and he played the best comp ever in the playoffs - he played an 9-HOF team in an 8-team league - if a team had 9 all-stars, we'd expect them to win every year, let alone 9 HOF

Like Jordan, Wilt's teams still won without him.

Take the Lakers for example, in 1968, they had the best offense in the league, a year later Wilt joins the Lakers and they actually regress offensively as a team and they didn't see this huge surge in wins.

The Sixers in 1969, their first year without Wilt were still a 55 win team and their offense saw no drop off whatsoever, in fact it was just as efficient as the year before in 1968 when they had Wilt. That to me screams red flags that Wilt's offense is extremely overrated. As I kid I was the biggest Wilt fan, because all I saw was his mind blowing individual stats, but the deeper I dug, I saw the truth, Wilt Chamberlain is overrated, at least as an offensive player.

[Turbo Slayer]

Kobe? GTFOH :oldlol: Lol...

3ball is a terrible poster. I appreciate him for backing his arguments with stats like I do but he does it in a flawed way AND never takes it into context regarding LeBron. Honest truth. :facepalm

3ball, you contradict yourself in every post.

[3ball]

Kobe? GTFOH :oldlol:
I view Kobe as the best player on the Lakers in one of those first 3 titles

Watch him against San Antonio in the 01' playoffs and tell me he isn't the best player on the Lakers..

People simply got enamored with Shaq's meaningless stats against a weak East in the Finals

But it was actually Kobe making all the plays/decisions when it was really needed in the Western Playoffs... Even in the 00' WCF, it was Kobe making the key decisions down the stretch

[SouBeachTalents]

I view Kobe as the best player on the Lakers in one of those first 3 titles

Watch him against San Antonio in the 01' playoffs and tell me he isn't the best player on the Lakers..

People simply got enamored with Shaq's meaningless stats against a weak East in the Finals

But it was actually Kobe making all the plays/decisions when it was really needed in the Western Playoffs... Even in the 00' WCF, it was Kobe making the key decisions down the stretch
You would never, in a million years, give LeBron credit for a ring where he was outscored by a teammate during a playoff run. Imagine a guy on LeBron's team averaging 30/15 for the playoffs, outscoring him by 10 ppg in the Finals. We would see that referenced in literally every LeBron thread you make :oldlol:

[3ball]

You would never, in a million years, give LeBron credit for a ring where he was outscored by a teammate during a playoff run. Imagine a guy on LeBron's team averaging 30/15 for the playoffs, outscoring him by 10 ppg in the Finals. We would see that referenced in literally every LeBron thread you make :oldlol:
Given the historic level of imbalance between the conferences, the Finals stats versus doormats in the 01-02' Finals mean nothing

Maybe you don't realize that teams as weak as AI or Kidd's team making the Finals is quite rare.. infact, the 00's East is the only conference EVER that had weak teams routinely making the Finals that everyone knew would get destroyed (01, 02, 03, 07, 09)

[1987_Lakers]

With the lopsided conferences, the Finals stats versus doormats in the 01-02' Finals mean nothing

Maybe you don't realize that teams as weak as AI or Kidd's team making the Finals is quite rare.. infact, the 00's East is the only conference EVER that had weak teams routinely making the Finals that everyone knew would get destroyed (01, 02, 03, 07, 09)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHAG6CVYScY

[aj1987]

Given the historic level of imbalance between the conferences, the Finals stats versus doormats in the 01-02' Finals mean nothing

Maybe you don't realize that teams as weak as AI or Kidd's team making the Finals is quite rare.. infact, the 00's East is the only conference EVER that had weak teams routinely making the Finals that everyone knew would get destroyed (01, 02, 03, 07, 09)

Shaq vs the West in '00 PO's - 28/15/3/2 on 55%

Shaq vs the West in '01 PO's - 29/15/3/1/2 on 55%

Shaq vs the West in '02 PO's - 26/13/3/1/3 on 51%

Yeah, he was only dropping numbers against EC teams. Go drink bleach, you mouth breathing retard.

[LAL]

Shaq vs the West in '00 PO's - 28/15/3/2 on 55%

Shaq vs the West in '01 PO's - 29/15/3/1/2 on 55%

Shaq vs the West in '02 PO's - 26/13/3/1/3 on 51%

Yeah, he was only dropping numbers against EC teams. Go drink bleach, you mouth breathing retard.

2000= 38ppg, 16.7rpg, 2.3apg
2001= 33ppg, 15.8rpg, 4.8apg
2002= 36.3ppg, 12.3rpg, 3.8apg

Why are you so angry all the time? Shaq really was feasting on those EC centers.

[RRR3]

2000= 38ppg, 16.7rpg, 2.3apg
2001= 33ppg, 15.8rpg, 4.8apg
2002= 36.3ppg, 12.3rpg, 3.8apg

Why are you so angry all the time? Shaq really was feasting on those EC centers.
I hope you realize one of those centers was DPOY Mutombo :lol

[LAL]

I hope you realize one of those centers was DPOY Mutombo :lol

1 on 1 against old skinny mutombo? It was mutombo's blocked shots mostly that won him dpoy, guarding shaq on an island 1on1 is something even a prime mutombo couldn't do.

[Smoke117]

I get banned for a week and ...and I quote "be a better person" while this fakkot slime shit head can say whatever he wants nonstop. This board is such a ****ing joke. That its admin wonders why almost every semi decent poster has abandoned it is ****ing hilarious.

[LAL]

I get banned for a week and ...and I quote "be a better person" while this fakkot slime shit head can say whatever he wants nonstop. This board is such a ****ing joke. That its admin wonders why almost every semi decent poster has abandoned it is ****ing hilarious.

Weren't you banned for the kobe helicopter jokes? Why u mad?

[Smoke117]

Weren't you banned for the kobe helicopter jokes? Why u mad?

Banned for a great joke while a board that's supposed to be about basketball wallows in garbage? That's a ****ing bigger joke than my great one about Kobe. Tender hearts couldn't take it, though, apparently.

[LAL]

Banned for a great joke while a board that's supposed to be about basketball wallows in garbage? That's a ****ing bigger joke then my great one.
Okay

[Smoke117]

Okay

Yes, shut up and don't ever respond to me again. You haven't earned that right, nobody.

[LAL]

Yes, shut up and don't ever respond to me again. You haven't earned that right, nobody.
I was trying to help you because you were crying about being banned for a week, must've been difficult for you i believe.

[aj1987]

2000= 38ppg, 16.7rpg, 2.3apg
2001= 33ppg, 15.8rpg, 4.8apg
2002= 36.3ppg, 12.3rpg, 3.8apg

Why are you so angry all the time? Shaq really was feasting on those EC centers.
Shaq averaged 28/15/3/1/2 on 53% over 3 PO runs vs WC teams. Are you telling me that those are pedestrian numbers? And '01 was against the DPOY. Let that sink in.

Angry? Nah, I'm not a patient person when dealing with retards like 3ball and yourself.

[Axe]

I was trying to help you because you were crying about being banned for a week, must've been difficult for you i believe.
Kid is just suffering from severe mental illness based on how he types his comments.

[Smoke117]

I was trying to help you because you were crying about being banned for a week, must've been difficult for you i believe.

lol idiot. I generally leave this board for weeks on end anyway. It's the principle that pissed me off, cupcake.

[LAL]

Shaq averaged 28/15/3/1/2 on 53% over 3 PO runs vs WC teams. Are you telling me that those are pedestrian numbers? And '01 was against the DPOY. Let that sink in.

Angry? Nah, I'm not a patient person when dealing with retards like 3ball and yourself.

Has anyone said he was terrible in the playoffs? Do you not see a small difference in portlands or san antonio's frontcourt? Or in the numbers? I know you want to kill 3ball but use your common sense.

[Smoke117]

Kid is just suffering from severe mental illness based on how he types his comments.

Who even are you? Either some alt or some nobody fukk face anyway. Nearly 1200 posts since february on this shit stain and you are talking shit? lmfao. Go sit in the corner and shut the **** up.

[Axe]

HAHAHAHA what? An alt? Lmao wtf you talking about?

Are you ready to go back inside your goddamn cave again sooner than later? 😹

[aj1987]

Has anyone said he was terrible in the playoffs? Do you not see a small difference in portlands or san antonio's frontcourt? Or in the numbers? I know you want to kill 3ball but use your common sense.

Go read the post I quoted, you idiot. Good lord, why does every LeBron hater have the IQ of a retarded rodent?

[Smoke117]

Go read the post I quoted, you idiot. Good lord, why does every LeBron hater have the IQ of a retarded rodent?

95% of the posters on this board of have the IQ of a retarded rodent, so what do you expect?

[LAL]

Go read the post I quoted, you idiot. Good lord, why does every LeBron hater have the IQ of a retarded rodent?

Nothing wrong with it, really not that crazy to say the east was weak?

[aj1987]

Nothing wrong with it, really not that crazy to say the east was weak?

How are you this stupid? It's not you've ever made a sensible post on your other accounts though. :oldlol:

[Turbo Slayer]

How are you this stupid? It's not you've ever made a sensible post on your other accounts though. :oldlol:

Hello AJ. :rockon:

[LAL]

How are you this stupid? It's not you've ever made a sensible post on your other accounts though. :oldlol:

I know its hard to believe how low my post count is but some people are like that, believe it or not.

[Turbo Slayer]

Nothing wrong with it, really not that crazy to say the east was weak? Its a combination of LeBron dominance and the weak East tbh. The only years that I consider the East to be weak was during the Heatles era and LeBrons first few years in the East...

Early in LeBron James career, LeBron James beat a good Wizards that was spearheaded by Gilbert Arenas and prime Jamison. Also, those great Detroit teams were in the ECF also.

They beat Kobe and the Lakers in 2004 despite the Lakers being heavy favorites (NBA preseason odds...) (P.S. I know Malone was injured but the Lakers still lost)

Despite that LeBron took on the Pistons in 2007 when the Pistons were considered favorites over the Cavs...

Only decent contenders were the Bulls and Pacers in the Heatles era but they challenged them nonetheless.

But I wont give you 2017-18.

[LAL]

Its a combination of LeBron dominance and the weak East tbh. The only years that I consider the East to be weak was during the Heatles era and LeBrons first few years in the East...

Early in LeBron James career, LeBron James beat a good Wizards that was spearheaded by Gilbert Arenas and prime Jamison. Also, those great Detroit teams were in the ECF also.

They beat Kobe and the Lakers in 2004 despite the Lakers being heavy favorites (NBA preseason odds...) (P.S. I know Malone was injured but the Lakers still lost)

Despite that LeBron took on the Pistons in 2007 when the Pistons were considered favorites over the Cavs...

Only decent contenders were the Bulls and Pacers in the Heatles era but they challenged them nonetheless.

But I wont give you 2017-18.
thx for confirming little psyhopath, and we were talking about the eastern conference before you were a sperm.

[Turbo Slayer]

thx for confirming little psyhopath, and we were talking about the eastern conference before you were a sperm. There's no need to insult me. It all does is that it shows that you are unwilling to have quality discussion... I never insulted you...

Back to my point.

The only years I consider the East is weak is in the Heatles era and the 1st few yrs when LBJ was in the league...

Lets talk about 2017-18.

The Indiana Pacers pushed LeBron and the Cavs to 7 games. The Pacers had better SRS (13th) and defensive rank (13th) than the Cavs.

LeBron James and the Cavs also beat the 1st seeded Raptors with HCA who also beat good WCF teams in the reg. season. The Raptors choked mentally and LeBron dominated them. After 1 year later the Raptors won the chip.

Also they faced the Celtics with HCA. Yes Kyrie was injured but the Celtics had all the tools to possibly go the Finals.

[LAL]

There's no need to insult me. It all does is that it shows that you are unwilling to have quality discussion... I never insulted you...

Back to my point.

The only years I consider the East is weak is in the Heatles era and the 1st few yrs when LBJ was in the league...

Lets talk about 2017-18.

The Indiana Pacers pushed LeBron and the Cavs to 7 games. The Pacers had better SRS (13th) and defensive rank (13th) than the Cavs.

LeBron James and the Cavs also beat the 1st seeded Raptors with HCA who also beat good WCF teams in the reg. season. The Raptors choked mentally and LeBron dominated them. After 1 year later the Raptors won the chip.

Also they faced the Celtics with HCA. Yes Kyrie was injured but the Celtics had all the tools to possibly go the Finals.

My discussion was about shaq in the finals.. not lebron little psychopath. I don't care about his accomplishments, every atg has them. Go do your 3ball imitation somewhere else.

[Turbo Slayer]

My discussion was about shaq in the finals.. not lebron little psychopath. I don't care about his accomplishments, every atg has them. Go do your 3ball imitation somewhere else.

Apologies my bad, LAL. :cheers:

[LAL]

Apologies my bad, LAL. :cheers:

My apologies too

[Turbo Slayer]

My apologies too Dont worry man, Im not some dumbass LeBron stan that repeatedly tells everyone that LBJ is goat (annoying...) Im actually rational and I want quality basketball discussion with everyone on this board.

[aj1987]

My discussion was about shaq in the finals.. not lebron little psychopath. I don't care about his accomplishments, every atg has them. Go do your 3ball imitation somewhere else.

Fact #1 - Shaq dominated the WC teams as well

Fact #2 - Shaq dropped 28/15/3/2 on 53% against WC teams from '00-'02

Fact #3 - Shaq was by FAR the best player on the 3peat Lakers

Fact #4 - Shaq absolutely murked DPOY Mutombo in the '01 Finals

How do you "people" manage to survive? :facepalm

[LAL]

Fact #1 - Shaq dominated the WC teams as well

Fact #2 - Shaq dropped 28/15/3/2 on 53% against WC teams from '00-'02

Fact #3 - Shaq was by FAR the best player on the 3peat Lakers

Fact #4 - Shaq absolutely murked DPOY Mutombo in the '01 Finals

How do you "people" manage to survive? :facepalm

Aren't the first 3 the same points?

Yes we know shaq dominated as usual (finals even more) that's obvious.. and NO, kobe will never ever be remembered as a "sidekick" (maybe the first?) in his first three peat, proved it by his clutchness, greatness and MJ type numbers.. in the playoffs and without shaq to prove a point, that's a story of a true competitor and all time great, meanwhile you're still mad lebron ran to wade and bosh because he couldn't handle the east like a coward and still lost 6 ****ing finals. Almost 8 if luck wasn't on his side.

Yes shaq was great, so was kareem to magic, mchale, parish for bird, Big O to kareem, those HOF's for duncan, etc

If you think shaq is just better, that's cool just stop crying angry nerd.

[aj1987]

Aren't the first 3 the same points?
No, they're not. Not surprising that you have reading comprehension issues as well.


Yes we know shaq dominated as usual (finals even more) that's obvious..
Then what are you even arguing about, idiot?


and NO, kobe will never ever be remembered as a "sidekick" (maybe the first?) in his first three peat
Except for the FACT that he's universally considered to be Shaq's sidekick during the 3peat.


proved it by his clutchness, greatness and MJ type numbers.. in the playoffs
Yeah, just no. Not even close. Prime MJ was dropping 35 PPG in title runs and 41 PPG in the Finals. Meanwhile, Kobe averaged 25 PPG during the 3peat and ~22 PPG on 38% in the Finals.


and without shaq to prove a point, that's a story of a true competitor and all time great
Dude was on bad teams for two seasons and cried and bitched constantly. Demanded a trade as well. You might be too young to remember it tough. Now imagine Kobe playing for 7 season on teams as bad as the '03-'10 Cavs. :roll:



meanwhile you're still mad lebron ran to wade and bosh because he couldn't handle the east like a coward and still lost 6 ****ing finals. Almost 8 if luck wasn't on his side.
You can take away all the rings you want, but Kobe is one Shaq and one Pau away from never getting past the first round. Let that sink in. Dude was getting humiliated in the first rounds, year after year, until Pau arrived and saved his legacy.



If you think shaq is just better, that's cool just stop crying angry nerd.

Except, you're the one who's melting down. I've done nothing but post FACTS. You're out here bawling your eyes out, cause you know that you can't refute my FACTS.

Now, go log onto your alts and keep spamming the board with your autistic drivel, you basement dwelling retard. :cheers:

[LAL]

Then what are you even arguing about, idiot?

That feeding him in finals against almighty mutombo, rick smiths, sam perkins, tod mcculough on an island was the smart thing to do and that's what happened, just winning basketball that you wouldn't understand as an angry bronstan. Didn't i show you with the numbers too? we're not discrediting shaq here like you're trying soooo hard with kobe, your biggest fear, the guy many know was better than leflow.


Except for the FACT that he's universally considered to be Shaq's sidekick during the 3peat.

You wish bronsexual, you want people to think he's nowhere near lebron, too bad :oldlol:

Yeah, just no. Not even close. Prime MJ was dropping 35 PPG in title runs and 41 PPG in the Finals. Meanwhile, Kobe averaged 25 PPG during the 3peat and ~22 PPG on 38% in the Finals.

No one said he has finals stats or playoff stats like prime MJ, averaging basically 27, 5, 5 since 2001 all the way to '13 is a little closer to MJ career numbers than being a sidekick? No? Legendary playoff performer in his own right too nerd.

Dude was on bad teams for two seasons and cried and bitched constantly. Demanded a trade as well. You might be too young to remember it tough. Now imagine Kobe playing for 7 season on teams as bad as the '03-'10 Cavs. :roll:

Your telling me Kobe wasn't perfect? Like the rest of us, including every all time great? shit guess you can't win every year bronsexual. Nobody is blaming lebron for his first 7 years, stop crying nerd. However, Kobe didn't cowardly create superteams like your Heatles back in the day, also a much better player than lebron and he is 5/7, western confernce, beating 24 50+ win teams in that proces, not 1 superteam, just 1 all star and roleplayers.



You can take away all the rings you want, but Kobe is one Shaq and one Pau away from never getting past the first round. Let that sink in. Dude was getting humiliated in the first rounds, year after year, until Pau arrived and saved his legacy.
Yes yes everyone got their ass kicked multiply times in their career, especially with kwame and smush yes yes, including the goat, Yes yes Pau saved his legacy lol. I bet you wished you could trade kobe's 5/7 and greatness for leflows stats, eastern confernce rings and shameful collisions. "but but sidekick" "but but but pau gasol" :oldlol:

You bronsexuals have no shame lmao, it's crazy, talking about "saving legacies" and shit :oldlol: amusing tho

[Hey Yo]

he is 5/7, western confernce, beating 24 50+ win teams in that proces, not 1 superteam, just 1 all star and roleplayers.
He's 2/3

How could he have beaten 24 50+ win teams when he didn't become LA's franchise player until 2005? Up until then, everyone knows Shaq was the franchise player and the offense ran through him.

[aj1987]

..
Good lord, you're definitely the most retarded poster on here. How do you not understand the simple FACT that Mutombo was the DPOY the season they faced Shaq and the Lakers in the Finals? It really is not that hard. I swear, if we got rid off LeBron haters, the planets collective IQ would go up by at least 10 points.

Also, this just proves that you did not watch a single minute of the 3peat Lakers. Shaq was left on an island with a single defender? :roll: Quit posting. You're straight up embarrassing yourself.


..
What numbers, idiot? I'm the one who has been providing facts and you're the one melting down.


..
We are not. You are and you've been doing a shit job at it as well. Also, there's nothing to discredit Kobe. It's a universal fact that Shaq was the best player on the 3peat Lakers.

It's also a universal fact that LeBron is a top 3 GOAT and Brick is borderline top 10 at BEST. I know it's hard to accept some realities, kid. You'll get over it eventually.


..
Another incoherent rambling from the resident retard. I was comparing Shaq to Kobe and you bring up LeBron. No matter how much you scream or cry, Kobe will always be a couple of tiers below LeBron. Just a fact.


..
Not only the low IQ, Brick turds have the memory of a goldfish. This was your post:

"proved it by his clutchness, greatness and MJ type numbers.. in the playoffs"

Yeah, now. Brick was not even remotely close to MJ, when it came to numbers or accomplishments. Lets not forget that Kobe is arguably one of the worst Finals performers among ATG's as well.



..
How mad are you right now, retard? I can just imagine you smashing your keyboard and bawling your eyes out.

Kobe didn't need to create a superteam. He was drafted onto one with 4 All-Stars. Shaq was with his for the first 8 seasons of his career. Not many players have the luxury of playing with a top 5 GOAT for the first 8 seasons of their careers. As I said, Kobe is one Shaq and Pau away from being a glorified volume scorer like Alex English or Dantley. Dude couldn't even make the PO's during his PEAK.

50 win teams? Cute. LeBron beat a 60 win team. Brick never did. LeBron beat a 70 win team. No one before him or since did.

As for superteams, again, the two seasons Brick did not have the most stacked team in the league, he cried and bitched and demanded a trade. LeBron never demanded a trade in his career, because he was on a shit team. Demanding a trade is honestly bitchmade.


..
Nah, I would take LeBron's 4 MVP's and 3 FMVP's over Bricks 1 pity MVP and 2 pity FMVP's. You can cry all you want, but as I keep saying, it's a FACT that LeBron is significantly better than Kobe. Heck, current LeBron is arguably better than what Kobe was at his best. A 35 year old in his 17th season. That's how much better LeBron is, than Kobe.

What are Eastern Conference rings, BTW? Is that something you just made up in that def


..
The meltdown continues. Did LeBron bang your mom? The way you've been meltingdown over him for years and years over dozens of accounts, I would assume yes.

Anyways, LeBron is universally considered to be a top 3 GOAT and Brick is ranked outside the top 10. Deal with it, retard. :cheers:

[LAL]

Poor guy, trying too hard.

Kobe is 10 times the player lbj will ever be, lebron didn't work for it, you bronsexuals and media just want to gift him every damn thing lol. Besides the stats and media awards, what is he better at nerd? Rebounding? Don't you get it, he's a lazy coward, a princess, can't do shit without a dribble or his system, broken jumper, bad handles, zero moves, no footwork, no creativity, infamously bad mentality, loses 6 ****ing finals with superteams, 17th year still trying to tie kobes ring count who won only with 1 all star and roleplayers out west, spending all game hiding his weaknesses, hiding his ugly game, still too scared to take free throws at the end of games so it's usualy either a pass or a 3 point prayer at the end, ring chasing in his prime while stat padding in the east, kawhi and iggy shutting him down despite the great numbers.. showing how cheap and unimpressive those stats really are, kobe embarassing him 1 on 1 too many times to show the world he's from another level making him look all confused and awkward.. and espn never shows that, i think they burned the evidence but theyre still out there. Tell us more about those all around numbers that westbrook, luka, harden and trae young also have. All mad because i said the finals were easier for shaq than the playoffs, where frobe was as much a monster as shaq was, thats not easy especially in a system that isn't stat based. Funny how kobe's 17th season was better than any version of lebron i ever saw and your little punk ass thinks this years lebron is better than any kobe.. 17 years and still fooling you guys with his stats, needed AD to carry his ass to the playoffs because lebron is just not that dude.

You must have a bad rep in this forum, never seen a smart post, just flat out dumb shit, excuses, insults and stats, annoying ****ing loser. Born in 87 and calls me a kid. Lebron dickriding ho

[Turbo Slayer]

Poor guy, trying too hard.

Kobe is 10 times the player lbj will ever be, lebron didn't work for it, you bronsexuals and media just want to gift him every damn thing lol. Besides the stats and media awards, what is he better at nerd? Rebounding? Don't you get it, he's a lazy coward, a princess, can't do shit without a dribble or his system, broken jumper, bad handles, zero moves, no footwork, no creativity, infamously bad mentality, loses 6 ****ing finals with superteams, 17th year still trying to tie kobes ring count who won only with 1 all star and roleplayers out west, spending all game hiding his weaknesses, hiding his ugly game, still too scared to take free throws at the end of games so it's usualy either a pass or a 3 point prayer at the end, ring chasing in his prime while stat padding in the east, kawhi and iggy shutting him down despite the great numbers.. showing how cheap and unimpressive those stats really are, kobe embarassing him 1 on 1 too many times to show the world he's from another level making him look all confused and awkward.. and espn never shows that, i think they burned the evidence but theyre still out there. Tell us more about those all around numbers that westbrook, luka, harden and trae young also have. All mad because i said the finals were easier for shaq than the playoffs, where frobe was as much a monster as shaq was, thats not easy especially in a system that isn't stat based. Funny how kobe's 17th season was better than any version of lebron i ever saw and your little punk ass thinks this years lebron is better than any kobe.. 17 years and still fooling you guys with his stats, needed AD to carry his ass to the playoffs because lebron is just not that dude.

You must have a bad rep in this forum, never seen a smart post, just flat out dumb shit, excuses, insults and stats, annoying ****ing loser. Born in 87 and calls me a kid. Lebron dickriding ho


zero moves, no footwork, no creativity


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ErmRVndzqQ

[Turbo Slayer]

No footwork?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfNyjbkaYqI

[Turbo Slayer]

broken jumper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcYzVlLbHig

[Turbo Slayer]

no creativity,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etsMFSGEHCs

[LAL]

Poor guy, trying too hard.

Kobe is 10 times the player lbj will ever be, lebron didn't work for it, you bronsexuals and media just want to gift him every damn thing lol. Besides the stats and media awards, what is he better at nerd? Rebounding? Don't you get it, he's a lazy coward, a princess, can't do shit without a dribble or his system, broken jumper, bad handles, zero moves, no footwork, no creativity, infamously bad mentality, loses 6 ****ing finals with superteams, 17th year still trying to tie kobes ring count who won only with 1 all star and roleplayers out west, spending all game hiding his weaknesses, hiding his ugly game, still too scared to take free throws at the end of games so it's usualy either a pass or a 3 point prayer at the end, ring chasing in his prime while stat padding in the east, kawhi and iggy shutting him down despite the great numbers.. showing how cheap and unimpressive those stats really are, kobe embarassing him 1 on 1 too many times to show the world he's from another level making him look all confused and awkward.. and espn never shows that, i think they burned the evidence but theyre still out there. Tell us more about those all around numbers that westbrook, luka, harden and trae young also have. All mad because i said the finals were easier for shaq than the playoffs, where frobe was as much a monster as shaq was, thats not easy especially in a system that isn't stat based. Funny how kobe's 17th season was better than any version of lebron i ever saw and your little punk ass thinks this years lebron is better than any kobe.. 17 years and still fooling you guys with his stats, needed AD to carry his ass to the playoffs because lebron is just not that dude.

You must have a bad rep in this forum, never seen a smart post, just flat out dumb shit, excuses, insults and stats, annoying ****ing loser. Born in 87 and calls me a kid. Lebron dickriding ho
Let people see this turbo, **** off with those pathetic clips. Thx