The latest BS: "if Giannis hits that jumpshot, it's over" [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

3ball

12-21-2019, 06:18 AM

nayte

12-21-2019, 06:27 AM

I like your counter to the bran stans but now you are going to far in the paranoia . Is no one allowed to get credit for anything apart from Jordan?

HylianNightmare

12-21-2019, 06:28 AM

He did have a great looking baseline post faid that game I think away from a double to

ImKobe

12-21-2019, 06:32 AM

It doesn't matter how the shot looks as long as it goes in.

Manny98

12-21-2019, 06:32 AM

Giannis is damm near unstoppable once he gets into the paint which causes the entire defense to collapse and leaves shooters wide open

MJ never had that type of offensive gravity

3ball

12-21-2019, 06:34 AM

I like your counter to the bran stans but now you are going to far in the paranoia . Is no one allowed to get credit for anything apart from Jordan?
can he consistently do any moves off that jumper, or is he dribbling up to the line like a beginner?

giannis is UNSKILLED and people should realize that

you think last year's loss as the favored 1 seed was a fluke? he's gonna lose with great teams his entire career (just like lebron) because he's unskilled and wins off athletic dominance, not skill

you'll see...

and ultimately, I can't believe people compare what he's doing in this spaced-out game (the same thing over and over) to what actually skilled players did in previous eras

3ball

12-21-2019, 06:37 AM

Giannis is damm near unstoppable once he gets into the paint which causes the entire defense to collapse and leaves shooters wide open

MJ never had that type of offensive gravity
giannis must dribble slowly like a beginner before taking any jumpshot

he sucks

scuzzy

12-21-2019, 06:41 AM

Literally 95% of the players at Giannis' height between 70's-90's couldn't scratch rim beyond 10 feet

nayte

12-21-2019, 06:42 AM

can he consistently do any moves off that jumper, or is he dribbling up to the line like a beginner?

giannis is UNSKILLED and people should realize that

you think last year's loss as the favored 1 seed was a fluke? he's gonna lose with great teams his entire career (just like lebron) because he's unskilled and wins off athletic dominance, not skill

you'll see...

and ultimately, I can't believe people compare what he's doing in this spaced-out game (the same thing over and over) to what actually skilled players did in previous eras

I didn't.. say otherwise. I agree Jordan is the goat but he is gone. I enjoy the new players and game. Why can't you?

AirBonner

12-21-2019, 06:43 AM

Giannis having a better regular season than MJ

3ball

12-21-2019, 06:44 AM

.
strategy against Giannis:

1) take his spacing away (his drives), aka make it 80's style/international style

2) watch him squirm like a fish out of water as he tries to cobble together some kind of jumpshot game

opponents who successfully employed the above strategy:

1) 19' Raptors
2) Alex Garcia (who?) and Brazil National team

^^^ see, it's easy

Ghost1

12-21-2019, 06:47 AM

3ball is right... nba's best player drilling wide open practice three pointers :oldlol: we'll see how he does in a playoff half court game soon.

HINT:

https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Podcasts123/v4/f5/ed/74/f5ed7422-446c-3828-7fcf-77c330351887/mza_7725953082464480788.jpg/400x400bb.jpg

Manny98

12-21-2019, 06:52 AM

giannis must dribble slowly like a beginner before taking any jumpshot

he sucks
Higher PER than peak MJ

stats don't lie Giannis is on pace to having the GOAT peak

AirBonner

12-21-2019, 06:53 AM

Giannis already a better 3pt shooter than MJ

3ball

12-21-2019, 07:08 AM

Giannis already a better 3pt shooter than MJ
In 1997, MJ made over 700 jumpers (250 more than curry and lebron's high), with better efficiency than lebron's best season - only MJ and Kobe have this level of jumpshooting volume and efficiency - they are infact the most skilled jumpshooters ever

regarding threes, mj has 2 seasons of 38% and 35% at 3+ attempts (90', 93')... that's better than Giannis ever did... and mj had a million games with 5+ threes, and they weren't beginner-looking jumpers like the ones giannis takes, where he takes 4-5 careful dribbles (just like a beginner) before taking the shot (:roll: )

overall, MJ shot 35.2% on 2.2 attempts for the 85-93' playoffs, and 39% on 4 attempts in the 93' playoffs and 91-93' Finals - aka, he's won championships shooting threes at the same level as say, Kawhi did in 2019.. so even though that era didn't value the 3-point shot, MJ intuitively saw its value and took the shot, despite preferring to score via 2-pointers in general

nayte

12-21-2019, 07:11 AM

In 1997, MJ made over 700 jumpers (250 more than curry and lebron's high), with better efficiency than lebron's best season - only MJ and Kobe have this level of jumpshooting volume and efficiency - they are infact the most skilled jumpshooters ever

regarding threes, mj had a million games with 5+ threes, and they weren't beginner-looking jumpers like the ones giannis takes, where he takes 4-5 careful dribbles (just like a beginner) before taking the shot (:roll: )

overall, MJ shot 35.2% on 2.2 attempts for the 85-93' playoffs, and 39% on 4 attempts in the 93' playoffs and 91-93' Finals - aka, he's won championships shooting threes at the same level as say, Kawhi did in 2019.. so even though that era didn't value the 3-point shot, MJ intuitively saw its value and took the shot, despite preferring to score via 2-pointers in general

Honest question.. Who do u like out of the new players. Who do u think has goat potential? Or 2nd goat after Jordan

3ball

12-21-2019, 07:18 AM

Honest question.. Who do u like out of the new players. Who do u think has goat potential? Or 2nd goat after Jordan
today's format (spaced-out and hands-off format, thus allowing threes/layups shot allocation) prevents players from developing goat skills (mid-range, 2-pointer basketball, aka unspaced/in-traffic scoring & instinct)

we saw the clippers lock up Luka a few weeks ago by just taking away his threes (0-8 on threes).. if he had real skill this wouldn't be a problem... aka bird would've seen his 3 wasn't falling and scored 30 with his left hand

Trollsmasher

12-21-2019, 07:20 AM

giannis already better than Jordan ever was without a solid jumpshot?:eek:

3ball

12-21-2019, 07:24 AM

giannis already better than Jordan ever was without a solid jumpshot?:eek:
today's spaced out format, which allows easy drives on every play is the only format that giannis is even GOOD, let alone jordan

Alex Garcia shut down giannis because the format was more 90's ball than today's spaced-out, hands-off mickey mouse game that allows a 3's and layups shot allocation ...

only 3's and layups - that's the skillet giannis is learning and you think that's basketball?... let alone compares to MJ?... don't watch so much ESPN bro.. do yourself a favor - put down the remote

BigTicket

12-21-2019, 07:30 AM

Here's a stat that is sure to annoy 3ball: Giannis is currently scoring more per minute of play than Jordan ever did

:lol

Ghost1

12-21-2019, 07:35 AM

today's format (spaced-out and hands-off format, thus allowing threes/layups shot allocation) prevents players from developing goat skills (mid-range, 2-pointer basketball, aka unspaced/in-traffic scoring & instinct)

we saw the clippers lock up Luka a few weeks ago by just taking away his threes (0-8 on threes).. if he had real skill this wouldn't be a problem... aka bird would've seen his 3 wasn't falling and scored 30 with his left hand

https://i.postimg.cc/zfwFKmvq/tet-e.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/c4bWy2s1/ew3qrt32rvqc2.jpg
https://media1.giphy.com/media/fDzM81OYrNjJC/giphy.gif

Overdrive

12-21-2019, 07:43 AM

Giannis' mechanics are so off. He shoots the ball like a fn shotput only tilting his hand late on his release.

Honest question.. Who do u like out of the new players. Who do u think has goat potential? Or 2nd goat after Jordan

He doesn't like basketball.

scuzzy

12-21-2019, 07:50 AM

https://i.postimg.cc/zfwFKmvq/tet-e.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/c4bWy2s1/ew3qrt32rvqc2.jpg
https://media1.giphy.com/media/fDzM81OYrNjJC/giphy.gif
https://media1.giphy.com/media/fDzM81OYrNjJC/giphy.gif

3ball

12-21-2019, 07:51 AM

Here's a stat that is sure to annoy 3ball: Giannis is currently scoring more per minute of play than Jordan ever did

:lol
Giannis' teammates pull defenders to the perimeter via 3-point-shooting, so he's scoring on wide open paints

The format was different for MJ (his teammates didn't shoot threes), so MJ's paints looked like a crowded night club.. giannis would need to frequently shoot over these packed paints to be a good scorer back then, so he simply wouldn't be a player that faced the basket back then - he'd be a post player, probably a better version of Otis Thorpe
.

3ball

12-21-2019, 07:54 AM

Giannis' mechanics are so off. He shoots the ball like a fn shotput only tilting his hand late on his release.

He doesn't like basketball.
having 4 shooters spread the floor so one guy can waltz down the lane for an easy 1-on-1 isn't basketball

any format that promotes/allows a threes/layups-only shot allocation isn't basketball.. but carry on.. enjoy your gimmick of a game

Overdrive

12-21-2019, 08:08 AM

having 4 shooters spread the floor so one guy can waltz down the lane for an easy 1-on-1 isn't basketball

any format that promotes/allows a threes/layups-only shot allocation isn't basketball.. but carry on.. enjoy your gimmick of a game

I honestly don't enjoy the recent NBA as much as I used. Part of it is my working schedule, part of it is that there's no nonconforming team out there. Watching the Nets vs the Hawks is just like watching the Rockets vs the Clippers just on a different quality level.

The rules that brought this brand of play still don't make present superstars worse than past's. You play the game the way it is presented to you else you could call out Jordan, because he played in an era with a widened lane etcetc. You don't want to go down that route.

NBAGOAT

12-21-2019, 08:10 AM

it's ugly but who cares. it's not THAT far off from prime shaq having a jumpshot which would be essentially unstoppable. Giannis having one is just super dangerous with how effective he is in the paint

3ball

12-21-2019, 08:18 AM

https://i.postimg.cc/zfwFKmvq/tet-e.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/c4bWy2s1/ew3qrt32rvqc2.jpg
https://media1.giphy.com/media/fDzM81OYrNjJC/giphy.gif
Luka midrange 19' and 20' - 38.9%
MJ...mid-range 1997 - 48.9%

Luka midrange 2020.... 12/29.. 41.4%
MJ...mid-range 1997.... 588/1202.. 48.9%

MJ led the league in scoring from 1996-1998 on jumpshooting, primarily from the post and mid-range.. it was infact the greatest display of basketball skill and jumpshooting skill the game has ever seen

nayte

12-21-2019, 08:40 AM

Bronbron23

12-21-2019, 08:55 AM

what jumpshot?

the one that defenses LET him take?.. the one where he slowly dribbles up to the line and looks like he's taking a jumpshot for the very first time ever? that jumpshot?

people are acting like he has an unstoppable move like Kareem's skyhook or Jordan's fadeaway/jumpshot... he doesn't.. he has a beginner-looking jumpshot that no one is guarding and defenses are letting him dribble up to the line and take it like he's a beginner

can he consistently do any moves off that jumper, or is he dribbling up to the line like a beginner?.. So why is it hard to stop?.. defenses are letting him take it, and Kawhi shut it down easily last year

let me know when he masters a shot that's ACTUALLY unstoppable like harden's step-back, Jordan's fadeaway, or Kareem's skyhook - those are unstoppable - giannis' "beginner" jumpshot - not so much
.
Theres a reason why they let him take it though. Just like there was a reason why defences alot of the time would let mj take his. Yes mj was obviously way more skilled than greek and regardless of how skilled greek becomes this will always be the case. Thing is greek dosnt have to be as skilled to be as effective. Shaq and kareem werent as skilled as mj but in there primes they were just as effective as mj.

Oh and greeks sig move is his euro step. Ill admit its not as useful in the halfcourt come playoff time but that combined with a decent shot will make greek unstoppable.

Im an mj fan myself dude but greek is coming and theres a good chance when its all said and done that he'll be better or as good as mj in every aspect of the game including chips.

Ghost1

12-21-2019, 09:19 AM

Luka midrange 19' and 20' - 38.9%
MJ...mid-range 1997 - 48.9%

Luka midrange 2020.... 12/29.. 41.4%
MJ...mid-range 1997.... 588/1202.. 48.9%

MJ led the league in scoring from 1996-1998 on jumpshooting, primarily from the post and mid-range.. it was infact the greatest display of basketball skill and jumpshooting skill the game has ever seen

one game sample size only, compadre ;)

tpols

12-21-2019, 09:42 AM

can he consistently do any moves off that jumper, or is he dribbling up to the line like a beginner?

giannis is UNSKILLED and people should realize that

you think last year's loss as the favored 1 seed was a fluke? he's gonna lose with great teams his entire career (just like lebron) because he's unskilled and wins off athletic dominance, not skill

you'll see...

and ultimately, I can't believe people compare what he's doing in this spaced-out game (the same thing over and over) to what actually skilled players did in previous eras

spot on.

i had people flip out on me for echoing this same sentiment.

He's not good at basketball... just an insane athlete in an entertainment league.

bison

12-21-2019, 09:47 AM

It’s understandable why defenses might wanna sag on him a bit in the perimeter considering he’s pretty unstoppable once he gets daylight in the paint.

3ball

12-21-2019, 09:51 AM

one game sample size only, compadre ;)
bottom line: if ur an opposing coach, you'd prefer to face a team that employs a ball-dominator as their 1st option, rather than a team that moves the ball a lot

that's why players with the skillsets to achieve high production within a ball movement brand or system are superior to ball-dominator/playground skillset, which wins much less and has lower team ceilings..

the ball-dominator skillset turns teammates into spot-up shooters, which can't develop players/teams/championship teamwork, thus needing ready-made stars to win (talent-based winning).. essentially, ball-dominators as 1st options literally can't win (can't develop sufficient teamwork/brand) and MUST team-hop for the extra talent needed to win!!

Luka falls into this inferior skillset.. the worst part is that ball-dominators allow a defense to defend long dribbling, so you kind of WANT the ball on his hands (no need to double, unless his jumper gets hot).. that's how Stan Van Gundy beat Lebron in 09' (no double-teams/stay at home on teammates), and Stan literally never had to double because lebron had no jumper that could get hot.. lebron is a coach's dream - a long-dribbling, weak shooter

Kblaze8855

12-21-2019, 10:05 AM

spot on.

i had people flip out on me for echoing this same sentiment.

He's not good at basketball... just an insane athlete in an entertainment league.

If he weren

Wally450

12-21-2019, 10:12 AM

I like your counter to the bran stans but now you are going to far in the paranoia . Is no one allowed to get credit for anything apart from Jordan?

Yes, that's exactly what his gimmick is.

3ball

12-21-2019, 10:16 AM

It’s understandable why defenses might wanna sag on him a bit in the perimeter considering he’s pretty unstoppable once he gets daylight in the paint.
but should we give him a cookie for making the wide open jumpers?

sagging off giannis is only the first adjustment teams will make

they'll get up on his jumper in the playoffs and force him to turn his back, and then what's giannis going to do?!.. he can't consistently make jumpers unless he's dribbling up to the line like a beginner

so he's screwed when he's forced to take the kind of real/skilled jumpshots that it takes to carry a team to a championship.... we saw it last year as the heavy favorite with a bucks team that everyone said was stacked (Nick wright said they'd beat the KD warriors), or when he got shut down in international play by Alex Nobody

FKAri

12-21-2019, 10:27 AM

but should we give him a cookie for making the wide open jumpers?

sagging off giannis is only the first adjustment teams will make

they'll get up on his jumper in the playoffs and force him to turn his back, and then what's giannis going to do?!.. he can't consistently make jumpers unless he's dribbling up to the line like a beginner

so he's screwed when he's forced to take the kind of real/skilled jumpshots that it takes to carry a team to a championship.... we saw it last year as the heavy favorite with a bucks team that everyone said was stacked (Nick wright said they'd beat the KD warriors), or when he got shut down in international play by Alex Nobody
Good point. He's only making jumpers because the stupid modern defenses are sagging off of him. What in the world will he do when they get up on him and force him to drive to the basket? How will he make those jumpers then? That's the kind of elite 90's defensive analytical thinking missing from today's game. :applause:

BigTicket

12-21-2019, 10:35 AM

Giannis' teammates pull defenders to the perimeter via 3-point-shooting, so he's scoring on wide open paints

The format was different for MJ (his teammates didn't shoot threes), so MJ's paints looked like a crowded night club.. giannis would need to frequently shoot over these packed paints to be a good scorer back then, so he simply wouldn't be a player that faced the basket back then - he'd be a post player, probably a better version of Otis Thorpe
.

The scoring average in 1987 was 110 ppg on 89 shots per game. As it happens, those are exactly the same numbers as this year. So MJ set his career high of 37ppg at a time where scoring was exactly as hard/easy as it is this year.

The method of scoring might have been different, but that doesn't make it better or worse.

3ball

12-21-2019, 10:59 AM

The scoring average in 1987 was 110 ppg on 89 shots per game. As it happens, those are exactly the same numbers as this year. So MJ set his career high of 37ppg at a time where scoring was exactly as hard/easy as it is this year.

The method of scoring might have been different, but that doesn't make it better or worse.
players and teams were great at playing that way (taking contested 2-pointers in the mid-range), just like today's players are great at unscathed, drives to the hoop and 25-foot catch-and-shoots

so today's version is a manufactured shot allocation driven by spacing, while previous eras was a more natural, pure version of the game... the lesser spacing resulted in superior levels of instinctual play and contested shot-making

3ball

12-21-2019, 11:11 AM

Good point. He's only making jumpers because the stupid modern defenses are sagging off of him. What in the world will he do when they get up on him and force him to drive to the basket? How will he make those jumpers then? That's the kind of elite 90's defensive analytical thinking missing from today's game. :applause:
against a dominant driver, like 87' Jordan or 20' Giannis, defenses start off by sagging off

if they start hitting, then the initial defender must guard the jumper, while the help defense starts overtly doubling or cheating over to provide extra layers of defense - essentially, they start taking away his spacing to drive, while the initial defender gets in his face

in this scenario of less spacing to drive and no initial jumpshooting space, giannis will have to maneuver to get a jumpshot, or shoot a turnaround, either of which he's poor at

again, he can't consistently make jumpers unless he's dribbling up to the line like a beginner.. so he's screwed when he's forced to take the kind of real/skilled jumpshots that it takes to carry a team to a championship (when the defense is forced into adjustments and help defense or doubling schemes).

we saw it last year as the heavy favorite with a bucks team that everyone said was stacked (Nick wright said they'd beat the KD warriors), or when he got shut down in international play by Alex Nobody..

the kid shoots like a beginner

FKAri

12-21-2019, 11:21 AM

against a dominant driver, like 87' Jordan or 20' Giannis, defenses start off by sagging off

if they start hitting, then the initial defender must guard the jumper, while the help defense starts overtly doubling or cheating over to provide extra layers of defense - essentially, they start taking away his spacing to drive, while the initial defender gets in his face

in this scenario of less spacing to drive and no initial jumpshooting space, giannis will have to maneuver to get a jumpshot, or shoot a turnaround, either of which he's poor at

again, he can't consistently make jumpers unless he's dribbling up to the line like a beginner.. so he's screwed when he's forced to take the kind of real/skilled jumpshots that it takes to carry a team to a championship (when the defense is forced into adjustments and help defense or doubling schemes).

we saw it last year as the heavy favorite with a bucks team that everyone said was stacked (Nick wright said they'd beat the KD warriors), or when he got shut down in international play by Alex Nobody
Very true. When MJ and Giannis are playing at their absolute peaks they start to see the kind of defenses that Lebron saw. There are differences in how each attacks it: Giannis takes two steps from the 3pt line and dunks the ball. MJ's defenders were usually dumb so he'd do a jab step then hit a wide open jumper while the defender was staring at the rim. Then we have LeDong who's method is by far my favorite; he whips his dicc out and impales everyone between him and the rim like a shish kebab on a skewer and dunks the basketball, leaving the sodomites writhing in pain.

3ball

12-21-2019, 11:45 AM

Very true. When MJ and Giannis are playing at their absolute peaks they start to see the kind of defenses that Lebron saw. There are differences in how each attacks it: Giannis takes two steps from the 3pt line and dunks the ball. MJ's defenders were usually dumb so he'd do a jab step then hit a wide open jumper while the defender was staring at the rim. Then we have LeDong who's method is by far my favorite; he whips his dicc out and impales everyone between him and the rim like a shish kebab on a skewer and dunks the basketball, leaving the sodomites writhing in pain.
https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-27-2015/KYNWhw.gif

when giannis faces real defense, he gets locked up like lebron in 07' Finals or many other series that are worse than MJ ever played (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466613).

otoh, mj wasn't dumb enough to be an easy target like giannis and lebron - his skillset didn't limit him to standing out there and pounding the rock so the defense could see him coming.. defenses had to worry about mj scoring in every way, not just dribbling up to the line like a beginner, or stiff-arm drives..

ralph_i_el

12-21-2019, 12:00 PM

Higher PER than peak MJ

stats don't lie Giannis is on pace to having the GOAT peak

:facepalm Muh stats:facepalm

Keno

12-21-2019, 12:09 PM

bench warmers in this era would dominant the 90's, that era was a complete joke and should be taken with a grain of salt.

FKAri

12-21-2019, 12:15 PM

https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-27-2015/KYNWhw.gif

when giannis faces real defense, he gets locked up like lebron in 07' Finals or many other series that are worse than MJ ever played (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466613).

otoh, mj wasn't dumb enough to be an easy target like giannis and lebron - his skillset didn't limit him to standing out there and pounding the rock so the defense could see him coming.. defenses had to worry about mj scoring in every way, not just dribbling up to the line like a beginner, or stiff-arm drives..
Look at those shit defenders :oldlol:
Giannis would've used their heads like lily pads to leap frog to the rim for a dunk.

tpols

12-21-2019, 12:26 PM

If he weren’t scoring 32 points a game he would still be good with nothing but his defense and rebounding and the fact that you often hold yourself up some kind of real fan while completely disregarding that basketball is mostly what you do while not dribbling is a constant source of amusement to me.

Right, off ball game... he doesnt have that either.

weve been talking offensive basketball skill here. He has very little was all the point was.

Pretty much all the best defenders and rebounders were the biggest and best athletes. thats a hustle / instinct thing thats translateable across many sports really, basketball skill is much more heavily weighed on the offensive side of the ball ~ dribbling, passing, shooting, move set are all only really related to basketball.

than the surface skimmers trying to sound like

how can you call someone thats watched read and posted on 1000s of games over multiple decades, & seen damn near every basketball documentary ever a surface skimmer?

or 3ball who has composed one of the soundest, most logical collection of basketball evaluation ever created on the innanet a surface skimmer?

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-15-2015/AmDfgC.gif (/gif/what-you-talkin-bout-willis-gary-coleman-rip-different-strokes-AmDfgC)

DMAVS41

12-21-2019, 12:32 PM

3ball

12-21-2019, 12:35 PM

Look at those shit defenders :oldlol:
Giannis would've used their heads like lily pads to leap frog to the rim for a dunk.
so you agree with my point that MJ was less exploitable and are just harping on whether nique', willis, carr, rivers and wittman is sufficient athletic resistance.. got it

3ball

12-21-2019, 12:42 PM

The guy is historically great and will be for quite a while in the future. You ****ing clowns better make peace with it now.

Dude could never make a shot outside of 15 feet for the rest of his career and he's still be impacting the game at an all-nba level.

Is he perfect? Nope, but nobody was and nobody ever will be.
nonsense, at least offensively

he doesn't have the spacing he needs to make those easy drives to the rim against the best defenses today, or in other eras or formats (international)

and when the easy drives are taken away, he lacks the jumpshooting skill to excel - without the spacing to drive, he would be a post player in previous eras, aka Otis thorpe

FKAri

12-21-2019, 12:44 PM

so you agree with my point that MJ was less exploitable and are just harping on whether nique', willis, carr, rivers and wittman is sufficient athletic resistance.. got it
Well, their athleticism alone isn't up to par for modern NBA standards. Then you take a look at their skillsets and wonder wtf were they even doing in practice? And when you take a look at their IQ you wonder if they could even find employment in the modern work force outside basketball.

As for exploitable? As you know I would never comment on something I am not 100% certain about so all I can say for certain is that I know that Giannis never got exploited for $168 million, along with custody of his three children and his seven-acre Chicago mansion by a woman.

3ball

12-21-2019, 12:49 PM

Well, their athleticism alone isn't up to par for modern NBA standards. Then you take a look at their skillsets and wonder wtf were they even doing in practice? And when you take a look at their IQ you wonder if they could even find employment in the modern work force outside basketball.

As for exploitable? As you know I would never comment on something I am not 100% certain about so all I can say for certain is that I know that Giannis never got exploited for $168 million, along with custody of his three children and his seven-acre Chicago mansion by a woman.
wittman matches korver, who played SF and guarded Lebron

nique, carr, willis and rivers are more athletic than millsap, horford, teague and whoever else those Hawks had

ur overrating today's athleticism..

and obviously, u know giannis and lebron are more exploitable ball players, so you move to off-court stuff... but MJ's still a billionaire and beats then there too

DMAVS41

12-21-2019, 12:49 PM

nonsense, at least offensively

he doesn't have the spacing he needs to make those easy drives to the rim against the best defenses today, or in other eras or formats (international)

and he lacks the jumpshooting skill to overcome the tight defense and weak spacing - without the spacing to drive, he would be a post player in previous eras, aka Otis thorpe

As has been explained, he's elite on the other side of the ball...and he's also a quality passer.

Tight defense? If teams are playing tight defense on him...then he should never shoot. Just blow by his man and dunk or pass...again, which he already does night in night out.

Ben Wallace was a great player...and he couldn't do 10% of what Giannis can offensively.

You guys really need to wake the **** up. If the season ended today he'd probably deserve to get MVP and DPOY.

He has the Bucks with the 2nd best offense and the best defense. The rest of his team is good, but absolutely not historically noteworthy at all.

Yes, if he could wet jumpers he'd be even better. No shit. It is the biggest non-point ever.

And, you know what, if MJ could have hit 3's at a 40% clip...he'd have been a better player as well. Again, total non-point.

Wake up and appreciate greatness.

3ball

12-21-2019, 12:55 PM

As has been explained, he's elite on the other side of the ball...and he's also a quality passer.

Tight defense? If teams are playing tight defense on him...then he should never shoot. Just blow by his man and dunk or pass...again, which he already does night in night out.

Ben Wallace was a great player...and he couldn't do 10% of what Giannis can offensively.

You guys really need to wake the **** up. If the season ended today he'd probably deserve to get MVP and DPOY.

He has the Bucks with the 2nd best offense and the best defense. The rest of his team is good, but absolutely not historically noteworthy at all.

Yes, if he could wet jumpers he'd be even better. No shit. It is the biggest non-point ever.

And, you know what, if MJ could have hit 3's at a 40% clip...he'd have been a better player as well. Again, total non-point.

Wake up and appreciate greatness.
when defenses take his drives away like the lesser-spaced environments vs great defenses (19' Raps), previous eras, or other formats (international), giannis lacks the jumpshooting skill to excel

we've seen it with our own 2 eyes - defenses DO take his drive away, and he DOES struggle because he shoots like a beginner..

without the spacing to drive, he would be a post player in previous eras, aka Otis thorpe

Dray n Klay

12-21-2019, 12:57 PM

when defenses take his drives away like the lesser-spaced environments vs great defenses (19' Raps), previous eras, or other formats (international), giannis lacks the jumpshooting skill to excel

we've seen it with our own 2 eyes - defenses DO take his drive away, and he DOES struggle because he shoots like a beginner..

without the spacing to drive, he would be a post player in previous eras, aka Otis thorpe

Was 4 rebounds and 2 assists better than 12 rebounds and 10 assists?

tpols

12-21-2019, 01:08 PM

As has been explained, he's elite on the other side of the ball...and he's also a quality passer.

Tight defense? If teams are playing tight defense on him...then he should never shoot. Just blow by his man and dunk or pass...again, which he already does night in night out.

Ben Wallace was a great player...and he couldn't do 10% of what Giannis can offensively.

You guys really need to wake the **** up. If the season ended today he'd probably deserve to get MVP and DPOY.

He has the Bucks with the 2nd best offense and the best defense. The rest of his team is good, but absolutely not historically noteworthy at all.

Yes, if he could wet jumpers he'd be even better. No shit. It is the biggest non-point ever.

And, you know what, if MJ could have hit 3's at a 40% clip...he'd have been a better player as well. Again, total non-point.

Wake up and appreciate greatness.

Sorry dude people are allowed to differentiate between great athletes and great basketballers. (although there can be a ton of overlap)

it's like the difference between a great musician and a pop star.

eminem or dmx totally shits on da baby or juice wrld or travis scott or whatever even though theyre all breaking records with their music.

FKAri

12-21-2019, 01:16 PM

wittman matches korver, who played SF and guarded Lebron

nique, carr, willis and rivers are more athletic than millsap, horford, teague and whoever else those Hawks had

ur overrating today's athleticism..
Say what you want but we have clips of these stiffs that prove otherwise.

and obviously, u know giannis and lebron are more exploitable ball players, so you move to off-court stuff... but MJ's still a billionaire and beats then there too
I've always praised MJ's ability to convince poor kids to buy his shitty shoes. I do not dispute that. I am simply saying that it is difficult to compare exploitability because of who's available to do the exploiting. Giannis goes up against elite modern defenders with outrageous athleticism and IQ. On the other hand, MJ had to face car mechanics who as we know are elite exploiters. There's stories of guys going to Mark Eaton for an oil change and coming out with a new brake pad.

DMAVS41

12-21-2019, 01:18 PM

when defenses take his drives away like the lesser-spaced environments vs great defenses (19' Raps), previous eras, or other formats (international), giannis lacks the jumpshooting skill to excel

we've seen it with our own 2 eyes - defenses DO take his drive away, and he DOES struggle because he shoots like a beginner..

without the spacing to drive, he would be a post player in previous eras, aka Otis thorpe

He can struggle...and he'd still be an all-nba level player...that is how good he is.

DMAVS41

12-21-2019, 01:19 PM

Sorry dude people are allowed to differentiate between great athletes and great basketballers. (although there can be a ton of overlap)

it's like the difference between a great musician and a pop star.

eminem or dmx totally shits on da baby or juice wrld or travis scott or whatever even though theyre all breaking records with their music.

Only stupid people will do that.

I'm not going to give you my version of what Blaze wrote...but I very much agree with what he said on that front.

tpols

12-21-2019, 01:29 PM

Only stupid people will do that.

I'm not going to give you my version of what Blaze wrote...but I very much agree with what he said on that front.

K didnt say shit. Theres obviously a minimum threshold of athleticism to make the league.

That being said theres nothing wrong with seeing guys skillsets in a vacuum and comparing how theyd fare across all eras and platforms with what they got.

it's hard to appreciate from a basketball perspective dudes who just dribble spam and running back their way to the rim every play.

its simply ugly basketball

3ball

12-21-2019, 01:31 PM

He can struggle...and he'd still be an all-nba level player...that is how good he is.
detlef schrempf was all-nba

that's a far cry from mvp-level

but I agree that a slightly better Otis Thorpe could make all-nba... Thorpe was underrated

and that shows the gap between previous eras and today.. thanks for finally admitting that

DMAVS41

12-21-2019, 01:34 PM

detlef schrempf was all-nba

that's a far cry from mvp-level

but I agree that a slightly better Otis Thorpe could make all-nba... Thorpe was underrated

and that shows the gap between previous eras and today.. thanks for finally admitting that

I disagree with 99% of what you post.

:cheers:

DMAVS41

12-21-2019, 01:37 PM

K didnt say shit. Theres obviously a minimum threshold of athleticism to make the league.

That being said theres nothing wrong with seeing guys skillsets in a vacuum and comparing how theyd fare across all eras and platforms with what they got.

it's hard to appreciate from a basketball perspective dudes who just dribble spam and running back their way to the rim every play.

its simply ugly basketball

It doesn't matter how it looks if we are talking about what impact it makes. Ugly means nothing.

Basketball is largely an athletic game. Skillful players that can't run and jump well enough...get abused by better athletes with less skill....this isn't even up for debate.

Of course it is a combination of skill and athleticism...even at the highest levels, but every single team in the league was taking Zion number 1...and we all know why....pretending the game is something else is silly.

Kblaze8855

12-21-2019, 01:46 PM

Right, off ball game... he doesnt have that either.

weve been talking offensive basketball skill here. He has very little was all the point was.

Pretty much all the best defenders and rebounders were the biggest and best athletes. thats a hustle / instinct thing thats translateable across many sports really, basketball skill is much more heavily weighed on the offensive side of the ball ~ dribbling, passing, shooting, move set are all only really related to basketball.

how can you call someone thats watched read and posted on 1000s of games over multiple decades, & seen damn near every basketball documentary ever a surface skimmer?

or 3ball who has composed one of the soundest, most logical collection of basketball evaluation ever created on the innanet a surface skimmer?

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-15-2015/AmDfgC.gif (/gif/what-you-talkin-bout-willis-gary-coleman-rip-different-strokes-AmDfgC)

It

3ball

12-21-2019, 01:47 PM

[/B]

It doesn't matter how it looks if we are talking about what impact it makes. Ugly means nothing.

Basketball is largely an athletic game. Skillful players that can't run and jump well enough...get abused by better athletes with less skill....this isn't even up for debate.

Of course it is a combination of skill and athleticism...even at the highest levels, but every single team in the league was taking Zion number 1...and we all know why....pretending the game is something else is silly.
the best players combine goat athleticism and skill

giannis only exhibits the athleticism part, which is sufficient in today's game due to the format (wide open).

but when defenses take away his drives/spacing like great defenses (19' Raps), other formats (international), or previous eras, giannis lacks the jumpshooting skill to excel

we've seen it with our own 2 eyes - defenses DO take his drive away, and he DOES struggle because he shoots like a beginner..

without the spacing to drive, he would be a post player in previous eras, aka Otis thorpe
.

tpols

12-21-2019, 01:50 PM

[/B]

It doesn't matter how it looks if we are talking about what impact it makes. Ugly means nothing.

Basketball is largely an athletic game. Skillful players that can't run and jump well enough...get abused by better athletes with less skill....this isn't even up for debate.

Of course it is a combination of skill and athleticism...even at the highest levels, but every single team in the league was taking Zion number 1...and we all know why....pretending the game is something else is silly.

you're only looking at one medium of play though.

look at giannis in international play... hes vastly diminished because he lacks real basketball skill.

lack of 3 second rule is an absolute killer for him because it allow for true zone defense and rim protection.

the nba is a gimmick league that makes it as easy for top athletes to score around the basket as humanly possible.

tpols

12-21-2019, 01:56 PM

DMAVS41

12-21-2019, 01:59 PM

the best players combine goat athleticism and skill

giannis only exhibits the athleticism part, which is sufficient in today's game due to the format (wide open).

but when defenses take away his drives/spacing like great defenses (19' Raps), other formats (international), or previous eras, giannis lacks the jumpshooting skill to excel

we've seen it with our own 2 eyes - defenses DO take his drive away, and he DOES struggle because he shoots like a beginner..

without the spacing to drive, he would be a post player in previous eras, aka Otis thorpe
.

You can keep repeating it, but it doesn't make it true.

His athleticism makes him an elite player...and he'd be elite in any era...again, not to just repeat Blaze, but I like when we agree...and we are in full agreement here...his defense/rebounding alone is going to make him very valuable.

He's, however, not perfect...only in your ****ed up world is that a knock on a player.

DMAVS41

12-21-2019, 01:59 PM

you're only looking at one medium of play though.

look at giannis in international play... hes vastly diminished because he lacks real basketball skill.

lack of 3 second rule is an absolute killer for him because it allow for true zone defense and rim protection.

the nba is a gimmick league that makes it as easy for top athletes to score around the basket as humanly possible.

Ahh...yes, lets judge him on how he would do in a league that he doesn't play in.

Makes sense.

Kblaze8855

12-21-2019, 02:01 PM

DMAVS41

12-21-2019, 02:02 PM

nobody tossed out rebounding and defense in an evaluatation of a player.

you're simply contorting language or not comprehending. Were talking about his basketball skill here and when i say he's "not good at basketball" im refering to that specifically.

Try to go talk to a real person that knows basketball and see what they say.

But you wouldn't do it...because it would be embarrassing as shit trying to tell people that know the game that Giannis "isn't good at basketball"

Kblaze8855

12-21-2019, 02:05 PM

Kblaze8855

12-21-2019, 02:11 PM

Try to go talk to a real person that knows basketball and see what they say.

But you wouldn't do it...because it would be embarrassing as shit trying to tell people that know the game that Giannis "isn't good at basketball"

Imagine this jackass trying to explain to Pat Riley or Larry Brown that Giannis is bad at basketball. Like 70% of coaches don

DMAVS41

12-21-2019, 02:16 PM

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Imagine this jackass trying to explain to Pat Riley or Larry Brown that Giannis is bad at basketball. Like 70% of coaches don

Bronbron23

12-21-2019, 02:58 PM

Height,size and length makes it harder to be super skilled. If mj was 7 foot tall he wouldn't have been the player he was skill wise because he wouldn't have had to been. At greeks size you can have half the skill but equal the impact because of his size. This is pretty basic. If greek gets an average mid range and post game to go along with his average three ball and elite finishing and defence he'll end up as good or better than mj because of his length and size even though mj will have been the much more skilled player.

tpols

12-21-2019, 03:22 PM

Try to go talk to a real person that knows basketball and see what they say.

But you wouldn't do it...because it would be embarrassing as shit trying to tell people that know the game that Giannis "isn't good at basketball"

I say stuff like that all the time talking ball...its not that serious lol people in real life don't get mad like you guys.

Manny98

12-21-2019, 03:43 PM

bigkingsfan

12-21-2019, 03:50 PM

I say stuff like that all the time talking ball...its not that serious lol people in real life don't get mad like you guys.
People in rl don't give a fk about like basketball like we do. I told my dad Kobe scored 81, he just gave me a shrug.

Kblaze8855

12-21-2019, 04:01 PM

I say stuff like that all the time talking ball...its not that serious lol people in real life don't get mad like you guys.

People in the real life say things like such and such sucks and you know they don

DMAVS41

12-21-2019, 05:03 PM

I say stuff like that all the time talking ball...its not that serious lol people in real life don't get mad like you guys.

So you are just joking around and don't actually believe the stuff you are arguing for?

If so, cool, but you had me and at least a few others fooled...because we thought you believed it.

3ball

12-21-2019, 06:13 PM

Giannis without a consistent outside shot has a higher PER than peak MJ let that sink in :eek:

Imagine when he actually adds that 3 point shot to his arsenal + develops into an elite playmaker (which he will) it's not going to be fair :oldlol:
I'm surprised someone hasn't beaten MJ's PER mark sooner given today's strategy that generates more efficient and open shots than any other era - literally the most efficient shot profile possible (threes/layups).

otoh, previous eras were experts at the toughest shot profile there is (contested midrange/long 2), which is feared/avoided by today's game.. except by the players that win the most and have the best teams, aka kawhi, dirk, kd, kobe, bird, mj, etc.

Adam Silver (and Lebron played a part) created a game that is literally easy driving lanes generated by the threat of shooters everywhere, driving made even easier by a hands-off game, and kickouts once the defense collapses - "tell him what he's won Bob!" - the simplest, most basic form of the game possible, where everyone's game looks similar because the optimal objective of the game if achieved so simply (threes achieved via drive-and-kick)

tpols

12-21-2019, 06:23 PM

So you are just joking around and don't actually believe the stuff you are arguing for?

If so, cool, but you had me and at least a few others fooled...because we thought you believed it.

No I'm dead serious. I have no problem calling out guys who are overrated you won't catch me hating on curry kawhi types. People don't get up in arms in person its casual conversation. Most people agree the game has gone down hill. Monopolization is at its worst with some of these guys, and jumper skill at an all time low.

RRR3

12-21-2019, 06:24 PM

In tpols' delusional world, Jamal Crawford is better at basketball than Giannis Antetokounmpo.

Kblaze8855

12-21-2019, 06:30 PM

The difference between being an overrated mvp and first ballot hall of famer and literally bad at the sport is so wide an adult shouldn

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

12-21-2019, 06:30 PM

I get what Tpols is saying.

Well sort of.

Claiming that Giannis is overrated? Or that he can be stymied with physical rules ie. FIBA? Yeah I can rationalize that. Saying Giannis isn't good at basketball though is where you lose track of the steering wheel, and go off the road.

Kblaze8855

12-21-2019, 06:37 PM

In tpols' delusional world, Jamal Crawford is better at basketball than Giannis Antetokounmpo.

Isn

tpols

12-21-2019, 06:51 PM

In tpols' delusional world, Jamal Crawford is better at basketball than Giannis Antetokounmpo.

Jamal Crawford is an and1 guy and terrible monopolizer. He needs like 11 dribbles to do anything. You aren't even close.

RRR3

12-21-2019, 07:06 PM

Jamal Crawford is an and1 guy and terrible monopolizer. He needs like 11 dribbles to do anything. You aren't even close.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ShoddyLimpingIvorybilledwoodpecker-small.gif

tpols

12-21-2019, 07:09 PM

One of the biggest things being harped on by OP is having to overdribble into everything to make something happen. Which is an obvious affront to teamwork. And then you bring up Jamal Crawford lmao...

*sigh* ...you arent as good at this as the others.

StrongLurk

12-21-2019, 07:25 PM

https://i.postimg.cc/zfwFKmvq/tet-e.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/c4bWy2s1/ew3qrt32rvqc2.jpg
https://media1.giphy.com/media/fDzM81OYrNjJC/giphy.gif

GOAT level bodybag

DMAVS41

12-21-2019, 09:42 PM

No I'm dead serious. I have no problem calling out guys who are overrated you won't catch me hating on curry kawhi types. People don't get up in arms in person its casual conversation. Most people agree the game has gone down hill. Monopolization is at its worst with some of these guys, and jumper skill at an all time low.

Ok, saying Giannis is over-rated is a reasonable statement. I disagree, but...I can at least understand.

Where does the "isn't good at basketball" come in?

Seriously...it is like the people that say "Lebron ball doesn't work" and then ignore that it actually did and does...and also ignores defense...and, of course, ignores that he didn't really play "Lebron ball" in 11...and they lost.

Like, at some point, you should have to come to terms with the simple fact that a guy like Giannis is great at basketball...and if you took his offense down to a 3 out of 10...he'd still be an elite player.

We can talk about skill all day and what is fun to watch, but nothing will change that a defensive monster like Giannis is always going to have great basketball value.

I always respond on here and have a lot of patience for most of this shit, but the "Luka is hurting Kristaps" shit and "Giannis isn't good at basketball" and "Lebron ball doesn't work"....it is getting really old.

Like, we can't even enjoy Luka and the Mavs now? Exceeding expectations hugely...best offense in the league by far with Luka playing...and there are a number of real threads, about whether or not those two are a good pairing and if Luka is playing the right way? At age ****ing 20? They haven't even played a playoff game. Like, what the **** is wrong with some people here?

And, quite frankly, it is just stupid. I don't believe you are actually stupid, but this crap sure as shit is stupid.

DMAVS41

12-21-2019, 09:48 PM

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Isn

Vragrant

12-22-2019, 01:05 AM

Patrick Ewing was much more skilled than Shaq but who are you taking? I can

ball247

12-22-2019, 02:37 AM

Giannis is very easy to stop. Just pack the paint

3ball

09-04-2020, 11:09 PM

Giannis is damm near unstoppable once he gets into the paint which causes the entire defense to collapse and leaves shooters wide open

MJ never had that type of offensive gravity

^^^ this thread is filled with ignorant posts like this defending Giannis' skills.. :roll:

Giannis is absolute trash - literally looks like a beginner when he takes jumpers - imagine a format and rules that are so watered down that a beginner jumpshooter can win MVP

People say today's players are better, yet the best player can't shoot and can't score ON defenders unless it's a layup..

3ball

09-04-2020, 11:28 PM

Giannis is very easy to stop. Just pack the paint

In the packed paints of the 80's and 90's, Giannis' lack of jumpshooting and pure scoring ability would relegate him to Pippen- caliber... A weak scorer and "flow" scorer

Bronbron23

09-04-2020, 11:34 PM

tpols

09-05-2020, 08:06 AM

Wow... I feel vindicated in this thread.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

09-05-2020, 11:10 AM

Wow... I feel vindicated in this thread.

I get what Tpols is saying.

Well sort of.

Claiming that Giannis is overrated? Or that he can be stymied with physical rules ie. FIBA? Yeah I can rationalize that.

Posted that (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?476366-The-latest-BS-quot-if-Giannis-hits-that-jumpshot-it-s-over-quot&p=13910429&viewfull=1#post13910429) in December.

Playoffs have been a little more physical which isn't saying a lot because the lax era.

But the Heat are a good defensive team and have walled Giannis off. So far, he doesn't look like an MVP or a superstar. Far from. Not saying he will never develop an in-between, an effective back-to-basket game, or that MIL can't comeback and win the series. But rn its looking a lot like FIBA.

r0drig0lac

09-05-2020, 11:21 AM

3ball on the spot, like almost 100% of the time, well, except when try to unnecessarily disqualify Pippen's game, he's ok.

And1AllDay

08-15-2021, 12:19 PM

^^^ this thread is filled with ignorant posts like this defending Giannis' skills.. :roll:

Giannis is absolute trash - literally looks like a beginner when he takes jumpers - imagine a format and rules that are so watered down that a beginner jumpshooter can win MVP

People say today's players are better, yet the best player can't shoot and can't score ON defenders unless it's a layup..

:oldlol: legiannis fam stay winning

And1AllDay

08-15-2021, 12:20 PM

3ball on the spot, like almost 100% of the time, well, except when try to unnecessarily disqualify Pippen's game, he's ok.

your just as big a retart for supporting his sh1t :oldlol:

8Ball

08-15-2021, 12:23 PM

So 3ball has been massively wrong about 4 things:

Giannis.
AD being bird fed loser
Klay thompson vs Kelly Oubre.
Jordan being the goat

3ball has admitted on other forums that Bron is the GOAT. Wait until I post the receipts.

3ba11

08-15-2021, 04:02 PM

So 3ball has been massively wrong about 4 things:

Giannis (I admitted being wrong and apologized to Giannis and his fans here (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496259-Giannis-proved-me-wrong-Lebron-never-did))
AD being bird fed loser (an obvious troll)
Klay thompson vs Kelly Oubre (another obvious troll)
Jordan being the goat (this one ruins any credibility you have)

3ball has admitted on other forums that Bron is the GOAT. Wait until I post the receipts.

Fixed - see the bolded above

Btw, other forums have deleted thousands of my posts and altered many others.. The same low-character mentality that inspired RRR3 to look up my family members and threaten me, is the same mentality those mods have when they spend entire days and nights fighting the truth that I post (deleting and altering my posts)..

Only this forum allows free speech.... The actions of other forums or posters like RRR3 can only mean that I'm posting truth and that truth is feared because it's contrary to the fake news and money-driven narratives that everyone worships on TV.

GrayGoat

08-15-2021, 11:24 PM

MJ is literally worshipped and media driven. More than any play in history in fact

3ba11

08-16-2021, 12:28 AM

MJ is literally worshipped and media driven. More than any play in history in fact

Jordan's 6 rings as the best player is the best winning accomplishement in 3-pointer history

Jordan's goat PPG, PER, BPM, VORP and WS/48 is the best stats in history

Jordan is the only player that never lost as the favorite or with 1 or 2 seeds.. He's the only player that led his team in scoring for every series of his career.. He's also the only player that won most of his rings without super-teams or 1b's (he won with a true 2nd option that averaged far less in every playoffs)... He was also scoring champ and top 5 DPOY from 88-98', aka the goat standard of play

^^^^ none of that is "media-driven"

999Guy

08-16-2021, 07:33 PM

Bronbron23

08-16-2021, 08:29 PM

Someone thought this was a good bump? Giannis still has a disabled jumper.

People don’t even know how to dick ride. He solved none of his problems or flaws. His strengths just overpowered some weaker defenses.

These expectations will have him put in the dumpster when he gets locked down again. And then this pedestal he built for himself will kill his rep forever.

I wouldn't say it's disabled. There's room for improvement but it's definitely way better than it was even just a year ago. Thing is he's so physically dominant he dosn't need much of a mid range and post game. He just needs a serviceable one that will keep defenses honest. He's gonna continue to improve and i expect greek to absolutely dominate this decade. He might lose this year because nets and lakers are stacked but after a year or so the nba will belong to greek

TheCorporation

08-16-2021, 08:49 PM

Jasper

08-16-2021, 08:56 PM

last time I looked he had a 50 point game , final game of the finals and became a champion. (and MVP) trash that.
/

CTbasketball92

08-17-2021, 02:36 AM

Someone thought this was a good bump? Giannis still has a disabled jumper.

People don’t even know how to dick ride. He solved none of his problems or flaws. His strengths just overpowered some weaker defenses.

These expectations will have him put in the dumpster when he gets locked down again. And then this pedestal he built for himself will kill his rep forever.

This has been the most annoying part about the Giannis narrative. Literally, most of the top 10-25 players who were in the playoffs got injured. Boston didn't have Jaylen Brown, The Nets didn't have Kyrie, and really didn't have Harden either, the Nuggets didn't have Murray, the Clippers didn't end up having Kawhi, Trae Young got injured and then the Bucks won the series without Giannis, the Lakers had both LeBron and AD get subdued by injuries like...every team with a realistic, even very likely chance to beat the Bucks were done in by injuries. They really didn't look like they belonged on the same court as the Nets, and that was w. just Kyrie. He was supposed to win this championship otherwise he was honestly never going to.

Axe

08-17-2021, 03:15 AM

Jordan's 6 rings as the best player is the best winning accomplishement in 3-pointer history

Jordan's goat PPG, PER, BPM, VORP and WS/48 is the best stats in history

Jordan is the only player that never lost as the favorite or with 1 or 2 seeds.. He's the only player that led his team in scoring for every series of his career.. He's also the only player that won most of his rings without super-teams or 1b's (he won with a true 2nd option that averaged far less in every playoffs)... He was also scoring champ and top 5 DPOY from 88-98', aka the goat standard of play

^^^^ none of that is "media-driven"
1-9 ;)

Smoke117

08-17-2021, 03:24 AM

3ball fails again. Peak Giannis > peak Jordan.

1-9

/end thread

lakerstekkenn

08-17-2021, 03:29 AM

what jumpshot?

the one that defenses LET him take?.. the one where he slowly dribbles up to the line and looks like he's taking a jumpshot for the very first time ever? that jumpshot?

people are acting like he has an unstoppable move like Kareem's skyhook or Jordan's fadeaway/jumpshot... he doesn't.. he has a beginner-looking jumpshot that no one is guarding and defenses are letting him dribble up to the line and take it like he's a beginner

can he consistently do any moves off that jumper, or is he dribbling up to the line like a beginner?.. So why is it hard to stop?.. defenses are letting him take it, and Kawhi shut it down easily last year

let me know when he masters a shot that's ACTUALLY unstoppable like harden's step-back, Jordan's fadeaway, or Kareem's skyhook - those are unstoppable - giannis' "beginner" jumpshot - not so much
.

Most players in the league come in with limited skills and have to develop into all around players Jordan, Kobe, Shaq and others Kobe was talented but didn't understand the game and wasn't consistent with his jumper and decisions with the Basketball, Giannis is the same once he develops getting better develops a jumper makes better decisions develops his handles he will be basically unstoppable especially uf he develops a fade away, this happened with Shaq Kobe Jordan and others Curry, Clay and others this took time and Giannis is hungry to be great and win multiple championships, he's already won one ring and had tears he said we gonna get another one, so eventually he will be unstoppable, IF HE PUTS IN THE WORK.

Giannis has to put in Black Mamba work Jordan work.

He already broke the record with scoring points in the finals, imagine he's developed a fade away and consistent jumper hed be unstoppable and dangerous.

3ba11

08-17-2021, 07:30 AM

it's funny because I was actually right with the thread title - it was over WITHOUT a jumper for Giannis - Giannis won the title without a jumper by learning how his game fit best with teammates (playing like a center on offense and not taking threes)

learning how to fit with teammates while also developing championshp strategy/brand and team identity is all part of the organic learning curve - ultimately, Giannis learned to WIN (organic), while KD and Lebron just learned to team-hop.. Due to this, I believe Giannis will end up ranked higher than both in the all-time rankings by the time he retires