Doncic has BARELY taken ANY midrange shots

[StrongLurk]

6.4% of his shots this year are between 10 feet-3 point line.

I also saw Fred Van Fleet hasn't even MADE a midrange shot all year...

I'm actually shocked at how little some people shoot from midrange...I know that for shorter players, they will focus on layups, threes and free throws...but Doncic is 6'7.

Maybe the midrange really is dead among guards younger than 25.

[Elosha]

Will come back to bite him in the playoffs. It always does when the defenses become harder. The fatal flaw of the pure efficiency/analytics approach.

[superduper]

Kawhi and Durant are proof that the midrange is still crucial in this era unless you decide to run away to multiple superteams in your prime. Then it's a different story.

[BigKobeFan]

Kawhi and Durant are proof that the midrange is still crucial in this era unless you decide to run away to multiple superteams in your prime. Then it's a different story.

You need a midrange game when you need a bucket.

I saw bran the other day, grab a rebound, posted up against a smaller defender, then took the ball back out to the 3 point line and shoot a missed 3.

Anyone with bball iq would have just took a jumper after the post up.

[STATUTORY]

Kawhi on the midrange shot:


It's hard to guard guys that shoot twos. It's playoff basketball. Once you get to the playoff it becomes a half court game.

[superduper]

You need a midrange game when you need a bucket.

I saw bran the other day, grab a rebound, posted up against a smaller defender, then took the ball back out to the 3 point line and shoot a missed 3.

Anyone with bball iq would have just took a jumper after the post up.

Bu buh mah analytics...

[Marchesk]

The Harden effect.

[Marchesk]

It's a travesty of the game. How are you supposed to have a ten foot zone where it's considered bad basketball to shoot from?

This is the unintended side-effect of the three point line that was great for the game for a while, but now is just being abused.

Something needs to be done to offset the absurd amount of focus on an arbitrary line. Why does one inch make a difference between two point and three points?

[BigKobeFan]

It's a travesty of the game. How are you supposed to have a ten foot zone where it's considered bad basketball to shoot from?

This is the unintended side-effect of the three point line that was great for the game for a while, but now is just being abused.

Something needs to be done to offset the absurd amount of focus on an arbitrary line. Why does one inch make a difference between two point and three points?

Handchecking.

[1987_Lakers]

It's the most inefficient shot in basketball

[superduper]

It's the most inefficient shot in basketball

And also the most consistently unguardable for those who have mastered it.

[knicksman]

It's the most inefficient shot in basketball

But efficiency means nothing if youre not effective. :confusedshrug:

Thats why bron needs superteams while kawhi doesnt.

[1987_Lakers]

But efficiency means nothing if youre not effective. :confusedshrug:

Thats why bron needs superteams while kawhi doesnt.

Kawhi needed an entire team to get injured to win his title, meanwhile LeBron dethroned a 73 win team.

[knicksman]

Kawhi needed an entire team to get injured to win his title, meanwhile LeBron dethroned a 73 win team.

Nah, I dont care. Kawhi won without a superteam.

[Ghost1]

https://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/DeMar-DeRozan-LaMarcus-Aldridge-rumors-625x302.jpg

[egokiller]

Kawhi needed an entire team to get injured to win his title, much like the 2016 warriors were injured enabling Lebron to win.
Fixed

[1987_Lakers]

Fixed

Wasn't Kevin Love injured as well? Damn, LeBron is the GOAT.

Tell me again how Jim Kelly has 4 super bowl rings. :roll:

[RealSkipBayless]

Nah, I dont care. Kawhi won without a superteam.
Siakam - borderline superstar
Lowry - all-star
Gasol - Averaged 17/8 before trade
Vanvleet - top tier role player

Before that he was on the Spurs dynasty.

[knicksman]

Siakam - borderline superstar
Lowry - all-star
Gasol - Averaged 17/8 before trade
Vanvleet - top tier role player

Before that he was on the Spurs dynasty.

He still won. And wheres spurs right now? Raptors before kawhi, swept in the playoffs. The real reason why kawhi was a winner coz he plays to win. Doesnt care about stats. Just focuses on skills that matter that most to winning. While lebron plays for MVPs/stats thats why hes a loser.

[Marchesk]

It's the most inefficient shot in basketball

Is it more inefficient for the players who shoot under 30% from three?

[Marchesk]

Kawhi needed an entire team to get injured to win his title, meanwhile LeBron dethroned a 73 win team.

https://sport360.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/GettyImages-695394990.jpg

[90sgoat]

KP shoots a lot of midrange jumpers though. They're not falling, but eventually they will.

I have no doubt Luka can eventually get some high post moves as well, but as of now he doesn't need it. If he fails in the playoffs because of it, then look for him to spend the summer learning to shoot the midrange jumper.

[tpols]

Will come back to bite him in the playoffs. It always does when the defenses become harder. The fatal flaw of the pure efficiency/analytics approach.


yup... he's not steph curry. and even it bit him in the ass at times.

monopolizing and only shooting 3's layups is a gimmick.

although if all the best teams do it I suppose it will be a winning style.

[FireDavidKahn]

The crux of the whole mid range argument often gets lost. It isn't really about eliminating the shot but rather getting players who suck at the mid range to stop taking it.

[3ball]

Siakam - borderline superstar - so was Jamison in 2010 pre-Lebron

Lowry - all-star - Mo Williams was an all-star too

Gasol - Averaged 17/8 before trade - Shaq was 18/8 with all-star MVP in 09' before joining Bron in 10'

Vanvleet - top tier role player - Varejao was all-defense in 2010


So Lebron's 2010 cast was similar, except more favored (1 seed), and in a weaker conference (no Giannis, no Embiid/Philly)

Yet Lebron choked in the 2nd Round, while Kawhi was lights-out GOAT-level against a far better opponent in Philly and Milwaukee

[DMAVS41]

The crux of the whole mid range argument often gets lost. It isn't really about eliminating the shot but rather getting players who suck at the mid range to stop taking it.

True, but very few players can take a real volume of open and guarded mid-range shots and it produce the kind of EV teams are comfortable with.

[3ball]

Today's perimeter defense is hands-off - the NBA has mandated SPACE between ballhandler and defender, which makes penetration and jumpshooting easier:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-07-2015/KVA0Bm.gif



Compare the flag football shown above, to the real hand-checking of previous eras:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-01-2015/V2-pAN.gif



Here's today's flag football again:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/12-03-2015/TgIP3N.gif



And back to real basketball again:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/11-13-2015/p8lMrn.gif



The remarkable thing is that Curry's good shooting is the EXCEPTION among the league's top scorers:

Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler all have poor 3-point AND midrange efficiency (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11712984&postcount=40), yet they're still the top wing scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim than ever before.

Today's spacing and hands-off defense would benefit MJ's athleticism the same way, except he had well-documented, goat midrange efficiency (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713011&postcount=43), which would put him in Curry's category as a goat shooter, and give him a similarly massive advantage over Lebron, Westbrook and company.




True, but very few players can take a real volume of open and guarded mid-range shots and it produce the kind of EV teams are comfortable with.
Exactly

and they aren't comfortable with midrange EV because today's strategy has produced more efficient ways to score (drive-and-kick for 3-pointers)

[FireDavidKahn]

True, but very few players can take a real volume of open and guarded mid-range shots and it produce the kind of EV teams are comfortable with.
Exactly! And those that can are almost always superstars.

That's why I don't really have a problem with the "anti" midrange shot mantra. Let the players who can actually take and make them take them and don't encourage the others where it would be more beneficial to attempt a 3 or drive to the paint.

It's almost like...trying to maximize the best possible value out of your roster.:bowdown:

[NBASTATMAN]

But efficiency means nothing if youre not effective. :confusedshrug:

Thats why bron needs superteams while kawhi doesnt.


lol.. the RAPS are going to win 50 games this season without KAWHI AND LOWRY AND IBAKA..

THAT WAS A 55-60 win team without KAWHI..

LOVE AND KYRIE aren't superstars , neither of these guys change a game. Kyrie can but he needs to chill

[Elosha]

Today's perimeter defense is hands-off - the NBA has mandated SPACE between ballhandler and defender, which makes penetration and jumpshooting easier:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-07-2015/KVA0Bm.gif



Compare the flag football shown above, to the real hand-checking of previous eras:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-01-2015/V2-pAN.gif



Here's today's flag football again:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/12-03-2015/TgIP3N.gif



And back to real basketball again:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/11-13-2015/p8lMrn.gif



The remarkable thing is that Curry's good shooting is the EXCEPTION among the league's top scorers:

Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler all have poor 3-point AND midrange efficiency (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11712984&postcount=40), yet they're still the top wing scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim than ever before.

Today's spacing and hands-off defense would benefit MJ's athleticism the same way, except he had well-documented, goat midrange efficiency (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713011&postcount=43), which would put him in Curry's category as a goat shooter, and give him a similarly massive advantage over Lebron, Westbrook and company.




Exactly

and they aren't comfortable with midrange EV because today's strategy has produced more efficient ways to score (drive-and-kick for 3-pointers)

There's a lot of truth to this. The playoffs aren't nearly as rough today as they were in the 80's or 90's but they do definitely raise the stakes of physicality. And we see most of today's superstars fall off because they don't know how to handle it, and have little ability to create a mid range shot or move off the ball for an open stop and pop jumper. KD, Kawhi and Curry (to some extent) can do this. Harden, WB, Lebron (to a little less of an extent than the others) cannot. Sure they can drive and spam threes, and WB will take and miss a lot of mid-ranges, but they really have no middle game, which is a glaring weakness in their overall ability. Nor do any of them adjust well to more physical play, they are used to hands free or flopping. Even a moderate increase of physicality messes with them mentally.

One day -- hopefully sooner than later -- the NBA is going to recognize the pendulum has swung too far and that the game has gone way too soft, which not only produces mentally soft players, but also encourages the loss of crucial basketball skills, midrange and posting up. Any team that does this well, while still shooting threes when available, is going to usually beat the three/layup line chuckers we see today. The Raptors last year are proof of that.

[sammichoffate]

Luka usually does a good job of getting deep in the paint for floaters and stuff, so there's no need to take it when you have that as an option. I do think that his attempts number will go up if they make it into the PO's, he's just too skilled to not have that as a weapon. He can just do what Durant does and shoot over smaller defenders at the elbow all day.

[CTbasketball92]

You need a midrange game when you need a bucket.

I saw bran the other day, grab a rebound, posted up against a smaller defender, then took the ball back out to the 3 point line and shoot a missed 3.

Anyone with bball iq would have just took a jumper after the post up.

LeBron's actually solid from the midrange and uses it a lot, especially in the playoffs (re: fadeaways). He can hit the shot at like 40% which is good when you consider how much he'll get to the rim and that he'll get to the line and shoot respectably from three.