Fred VanVleet putting up multiple 30+ point performance just 10 games into the season

[STATUTORY]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

stans trying to tell me the defense in this era is the best its ever been

Fred Vanvleet wouldnt been able to buy a bucket in the 90s and early 2000s

[hiphopanonymous]

It really is shocking to me how many role players are suddenly putting up big performances in this era as if they

[STATUTORY]

[QUOTE=hiphopanonymous]It really is shocking to me how many role players are suddenly putting up big performances in this era as if they

[Smoke117]

He actually came up big in the playoffs last season and now has a bigger role. OP being a fakkot as usual, though, of course. :confusedshrug:

[PP34Deuce]

Fred Vanvleet is a baller. He reminds me of Bobby Jackson from the Sac Kings in the 2000's.

[PJR]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

stans trying to tell me the defense in this era is the best its ever been

Fred Vanvleet wouldnt been able to buy a bucket in the 90s and early 2000s

Dude's like John Starks were averaging like 19 a game in the 90's. Please shut fvk up.

[StrongLurk]

OP just giving more evidence for his ignorance.

FVV is clearly a good player, did you see him in the finals last year?

[superduper]

To be fair, FVV is a bad mother****er. He isn't a scrub or a role player. If you watched this season or last night you would see that. Dude is straight up fearless and is becoming insanely skilled at reading defensive lapses. Once he makes the read his finishing is automatic.

[PickernRoller]

No one here is doubting the moral character and build up of the man. OP's point is still correct.

[red1]

freddy is a beast. kid has serious skill his only limitation is his height at 6 feet (more like 5'10)

[hiphopanonymous]

freddy is a beast. kid has serious skill his only limitation is his height at 6 feet (more like 5'10)
His height was recently measured due to the 2020 rules regulation that now forces teams to measure accurately - he's 5'8"

I'll admit he's solid skill wise but I still think it's a bit suspect he's so successful I'm not sold he'd be as successful in other eras when defenses used to allow more contact and offensive players had less freedom to navigate

[superduper]

His height was recently measured due to the 2020 rules regulation that now forces teams to measure accurately - he's 5'8"

I'll admit he's solid skill wise but I still think it's a bit suspect he's so successful I'm not sold he'd be as successful in other eras when defenses used to allow more contact and offensive players had less freedom to navigate

He looks for contact though, he doesn't avoid it.

[RRR3]

His height was recently measured due to the 2020 rules regulation that now forces teams to measure accurately - he's 5'8"

I'll admit he's solid skill wise but I still think it's a bit suspect he's so successful I'm not sold he'd be as successful in other eras when defenses used to allow more contact and offensive players had less freedom to navigate
Muggsy Bogues and Spud Webb had successful careers. I’m sure FVV would
be fine.

[red1]

His height was recently measured due to the 2020 rules regulation that now forces teams to measure accurately - he's 5'8"

I'll admit he's solid skill wise but I still think it's a bit suspect he's so successful I'm not sold he'd be as successful in other eras when defenses used to allow more contact and offensive players had less freedom to navigate
freddy is as oldschool as it gets he's a hardnosed gritty beast who had to earn everything wasn't drafted had to work his way onto a roster.


he's not just solid skill-wise- he's extremely skilled. I don't see this argument of him not doing well in other eras at all. it's an idiotic take.

[hiphopanonymous]

He looks for contact though, he doesn't avoid it.
I'm not saying its Vanvleets methods that are a problem at all here, and I'm not even saying he couldn't play in prior eras. It's fundamentally sound to seek contact driving inside, it makes the defender backpeddle and if you're in control the foul will likely be called on them. But some hand checking could certainly have helped curb a 5-8 guys effectiveness no? Also eras prior to the no-charge zone posed issues for smaller guys finishing over bigs.

Anyways - just read another article when he was drafted he was measured "6-1 in shoes" at the draft camp. Hilarious considering this season they said he was 5-8 without shoes. Dude showed up to camp a few years ago in platforms :lol

[STATUTORY]

His height was recently measured due to the 2020 rules regulation that now forces teams to measure accurately - he's 5'8"

I'll admit he's solid skill wise but I still think it's a bit suspect he's so successful I'm not sold he'd be as successful in other eras when defenses used to allow more contact and offensive players had less freedom to navigate

:biggums: I thought u were joking but he's actually 5'8'' :facepalm

[SpaceJam2]

He actually came up big in the playoffs last season and now has a bigger role. OP being a fakkot as usual, though, of course. :confusedshrug:

:lol :lol

[ShawkFactory]

Why are we shitting on FVV?

He has a cool backstory, led witcha deep into a couple tourneys and was an absolute x-factor in the finals.

Dude has an impressive confidence and energy about him

[red1]

Why are we shitting on FVV?

He has a cool backstory, led witcha deep into a couple tourneys and was an absolute x-factor in the finals
OP is an embarrassment just look at his homoerotic avatar




these weirdos man.

[tpols]

it's not banned defense, its the 3 pt shooting paradigm.

in the 90s fred would be trying to get all his points slashing in a crowded paint and taking contested midrange jumpers but instead, in todays era, hes bombing away and raining 3's.

There's no physical defense to stop a guy making 28 footers off the dribble.

Guys didnt do that with any type of frequency back in the day.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

it's not banned defense, its the 3 pt shooting paradigm.

You sure about that?

Like we're really sitting here and claiming defense from the 90s and early 00s...wasn't visibly better?

Three's are shot and made today more than ever. No argument there. You bring back the old rules though? And allow playoff physicality in the regular-season? Those 3PT percentages are dropping down. Those off the dribble "bombs" are a lot tougher when someone can pick you up full-court, and put their hands on you.

[hiphopanonymous]

it's not banned defense, its the 3 pt shooting paradigm.

in the 90s fred would be trying to get all his points slashing in a crowded paint and taking contested midrange jumpers but instead, in todays era, hes bombing away and raining 3's.

There's no physical defense to stop a guy making 28 footers off the dribble.

Guys didnt do that with any type of frequency back in the day.
Not today there isn't. If a classic pressure defense was allowed - with the placement of a hand on his waist he's not chucking up a 28 footer it would almost certainly become an airball. And since that option existed that is why 40 years passed before players could consider what we see today to be a good shot. You only have to nudge his jump stop and pull-up attempt a few inches during his setup at 28 feet out for that shot to be a foot away from the rim.

A guy pressuring a ball handler today is just a foul-prone matador because he can't touch the offensive player. If you can't touch the ball handler of course that ball handler can pull up whenever the heck he wants, he's always going to be comfortable, he's not under any duress to be bumped or nudged at all or he will be sent to the line to shoot free throws - any shot he takes - so long as he practiced it - will be on balance and repeatable just like in the practice gym. Players today only have to worry about a hand in the air not a hand on the hip.

It's a different game today.

[andgar923]

He reminds me of Terrell Brandon from the 90s Cavs.

[tpols]

You sure about that?

Like we're really sitting here and claiming defense from the 90s and early 00s...wasn't visibly better?

Three's are shot and made today more than ever. No argument there. You bring back the old rules though? And allow playoff physicality in the regular-season? Those 3PT percentages are dropping down. Those off the dribble "bombs" are a lot tougher when someone can pick you up full-court, and put their hands on you.


it;s better... but not for what current van vleets is doing.

big men and slashers who cant shoot would suffer the most, guards that live in the paint especially.

[tpols]

Not today there isn't. If a classic pressure defense was allowed - with the placement of a hand on his waist he's not chucking up a 28 footer it would almost certainly become an airball. And since that option existed that is why 40 years passed before players could consider what we see today to be a good shot. You only have to nudge his jump stop and pull-up attempt a few inches during his setup at 28 feet out for that shot to be a foot away from the rim.

A guy pressuring a ball handler today is just a foul-prone matador because he can't touch the offensive player. If you can't touch the ball handler of course that ball handler can pull up whenever the heck he wants, he's always going to be comfortable, he's not under any duress to be bumped or nudged at all or he will be sent to the line to shoot free throws - any shot he takes - so long as he practiced it - will be on balance and repeatable just like in the practice gym. Players today only have to worry about a hand in the air not a hand on the hip.

It's a different game today.


We've all seen the tape... teams used to pressure full court, and then would slide behind the free throw line extended when the halfcourt possession begun.

And stars literally got the same FTs per game relative to the total team scoring output as they do today. (outside of harden)

I've seen all the old tape of 70s 80s n 90s, stars could do as they please the only difference was flagrant fouls were allowed, and fighting was kinda allowed. Nobody was grabbing and holding michael jordan lol. i seen kareem catch it on the low block right where he wanted everytime as a 40 yo skinny man nobody was throwing him to the ground.

The only difference is you cant flagrant foul as hard nowadays which doesnt matter on an every possession basis... and was usually an affair in the paint.

In half court sets, the guys today are shooting from areas of the floor that were completely unguarded in past eras.

[ShawkFactory]

We've all seen the tape... teams used to pressure full court, and then would slide behind the free throw line extended when the halfcourt possession begun.

And stars literally got the same FTs per game relative to the total team scoring output as they do today. (outside of harden)

I've seen all the old tape of 70s 80s n 90s, stars could do as they please the only difference was flagrant fouls were allowed, and fighting was kinda allowed. Nobody was grabbing and holding michael jordan lol. i seen kareem catch it on the low block right where he wanted everytime as a 40 yo skinny man nobody was throwing him to the ground.

The only difference is you cant flagrant foul as hard nowadays which doesnt matter on an every possession basis... and was usually an affair in the paint.

In half court sets, the guys today are shooting from areas of the floor that were completely unguarded in past eras.
I enjoy watching 80s games very much.

Dudes used to get open 10 foot jumpers regularly

[imdaman99]

He's a good player, prob my fav Raptor. How the Raptors keep popping out these guys drafted really low and turn out to be great contributors. Ujiri couldn't get here fast enough.

[iamgine]

Fred only had two 30 point games and that was against bad defensive teams and he's hot from 3. He score less than 15 points most of the time.

[StrongLurk]

We've all seen the tape... teams used to pressure full court, and then would slide behind the free throw line extended when the halfcourt possession begun.

And stars literally got the same FTs per game relative to the total team scoring output as they do today. (outside of harden)

I've seen all the old tape of 70s 80s n 90s, stars could do as they please the only difference was flagrant fouls were allowed, and fighting was kinda allowed. Nobody was grabbing and holding michael jordan lol. i seen kareem catch it on the low block right where he wanted everytime as a 40 yo skinny man nobody was throwing him to the ground.

The only difference is you cant flagrant foul as hard nowadays which doesnt matter on an every possession basis... and was usually an affair in the paint.

In half court sets, the guys today are shooting from areas of the floor that were completely unguarded in past eras.

THANK YOU!

I've posted this basically same sentiment plenty of times. IDK how so many people try to say different when we've all watched basketball from the past as well.

The only thing "tougher" about 80s/90s ball was flagrant/technical fouls compared to now.

MJ still got a ton of weak touch fouls like every other superstar.

And I swear, the amount of wide open 18 foot jump shots in the 80s/90s is crazy.

People complain about open 3 point shots now but it was the same thing back in the day with guys moved in 4 feet.

[StrongLurk]

His height was recently measured due to the 2020 rules regulation that now forces teams to measure accurately - he's 5'8"

I'll admit he's solid skill wise but I still think it's a bit suspect he's so successful I'm not sold he'd be as successful in other eras when defenses used to allow more contact and offensive players had less freedom to navigate

Gonna need a source here.

[hiphopanonymous]

Gonna need a source here.
It was google search - upon more extensive research I'm likely mistaken on that.

https://www.proballers.com/basketball/player/61087/fred-van-vleet#

5-8 source was not NBA and who knows when that was taken or who took it.

The recent NBA measurement data has him at 6-0 and that's from NBA's website so he's likely about 6 foot