Kawhi's 2014 FMVP is meaningless

[StrongLurk]

In regards to his all time rankings. People keep saying "oh he has two FMVPs" as if all FMVPs are equal.

Are people going to tell me that Kawhi's 2014 FMVP is equal to MJ's 91 FMVP or Kobe's 2009 FMVP? Kawhi averaged like 14/7/2 in the 2014 playoffs. Very pedestrian numbers on offense.

If a player gets a "ring" or "fmvp", but they didn't play at an all time great level (Billups in 04, Iggy in 15 as well), then those awards don't help you in the argument of being a top 25 player of all time.

Kawhi might be the best player in the league right now since KD's achilles injury...but he only has one FMVP that matters at all...and even that came while the best player in the league (KD) wasn't playing.

[stalkerforlife]

No, it isn't.

Thanks for your time, Bransvestite.

[Turbo Slayer]

OP is right. Not all FMVPs are created equal. Good post, OP. :cheers: :applause:

[BallsOut]

Defense is half the game buddy. Next thing you're gonna say is Bill Rusell's 11 rings don't count :oldlol:

[Spurs m8]

If you watched the series, especially the last 3 games, you would understand...you low iq dimwit.

It's more than empty stats, 4he last 3 games he catapulted his team to victory on both ends...and basically shut down the so called GOAT - leroids stats were inflated due to junk time stat padding.

Watch the games and he was clear FMVP...theres no 2 ways about it.

Bron stans must be the most triggered and lowest iq morons out there tbh

[SouBeachTalents]

If you watched the series, especially the last 3 games, you would understand...you low iq dimwit.

It's more than empty stats, 4he last 3 games he catapulted his team to victory on both ends...and basically shut down the so called GOAT - leroids stats were inflated due to junk time stat padding.

Watch the games and he was clear FMVP...theres no 2 ways about it.

Bron stans must be the most triggered and lowest iq morons out there tbh
LeBron had his highest scoring quarter in the 1st in 2 of those last 3 games, scoring 14 of his 22 in Game 3 & 17 of his 31 in Game 5. You have no idea what you're talking about

[StrongLurk]

If you watched the series, especially the last 3 games, you would understand...you low iq dimwit.

It's more than empty stats, 4he last 3 games he catapulted his team to victory on both ends...and basically shut down the so called GOAT - leroids stats were inflated due to junk time stat padding.

Watch the games and he was clear FMVP...theres no 2 ways about it.

Bron stans must be the most triggered and lowest iq morons out there tbh

You completely misunderstood what I said. No surprise.

[tpols]

its like a reverse kobe...

he was a role player all along.. but sonned an all time great.

[FultzNationRISE]

In regards to his all time rankings. People keep saying "oh he has two FMVPs" as if all FMVPs are equal.

Are people going to tell me that Kawhi's 2014 FMVP is equal to MJ's 91 FMVP or Kobe's 2009 FMVP? Kawhi averaged like 14/7/2 in the 2014 playoffs. Very pedestrian numbers on offense.

If a player gets a "ring" or "fmvp", but they didn't play at an all time great level (Billups in 04, Iggy in 15 as well), then those awards don't help you in the argument of being a top 25 player of all time.

Kawhi might be the best player in the league right now since KD's achilles injury...but he only has one FMVP that matters at all...and even that came while the best player in the league (KD) wasn't playing.


Can someone post the gif of nic cage laughing for me plz? Ill owe ya one.

Thanks ;)

[StrongLurk]

its like a reverse kobe...

he was a role player all along.. but sonned an all time great.

Lebron was better than Kawhi clearly in those finals. Kawhi did play great defense.

Even in the "last 3 games" that the Spurs team dominated, Lebron still had 27/8/5/2/1 on 56/43/78.

[StrongLurk]

Can someone post the gif of nic cage laughing for me plz? Ill owe ya one.

Thanks ;)

What's wrong with Kobe's 2009 finals MVP? It was his only truly elite finals MVP performance.

[knicksman]

Youre right not all FMVPs are equal and so are rings. Thats why lebrons rings doesnt have the same weight as kobes rings and what kawhi did last season trumps everything lebron has done in his career.

[knicksman]

And 2014 just proves that role player kawhi already has more impact than lebron. No wonder lebron needs superteams.

[Spurs m8]

LeBron had his highest scoring quarter in the 1st in 2 of those last 3 games, scoring 14 of his 22 in Game 3 & 17 of his 31 in Game 5. You have no idea what you're talking about

And where did he go for the rest of those games?

Kawhi TOOK OVER

[SouBeachTalents]

its like a reverse kobe...
Because he played well in the Finals?

[Spurs m8]

You completely misunderstood what I said. No surprise.

You made a silly thread, champ

I have watched the series more times than most here...

He deserved it for more reasons than one.

Theres more to basketball than empty stats

[StrongLurk]

You made a silly thread, champ

I have watched the series more times than most here...

He deserved it for more reasons than one.

Theres more to basketball than empty stats

You are still misunderstanding :roll:

Show me where I said Kawhi didn't deserve finals MVP for that year?

Also, show me where Kawhi played like a top 25 player of all time in the 2014 playoffs.

[Spurs m8]

You are still misunderstanding :roll:

Show me where I said Kawhi didn't deserve finals MVP for that year?

Also, show me where Kawhi played like a top 25 player of all time in the 2014 playoffs.

Okay I went back and re read the original post.

I'm am now more stupid

Thank you

[StrongLurk]

Okay I went back and re read the original post.

I'm am now more stupid

Thank you

I just remembered, you used to be Kawhi m8 and then melted down over him leaving :roll:

Yikes.

[Spurs m8]

I just remembered, you used to be Kawhi m8 and then melted down over him leaving :roll:

Yikes.

Gee mate, I'm glad you caught up

[Matppak]

This post is ****in bananas

Kawhis fmvp in 2014 was a coming out party... the spurs would have still had life in 15, 16 if Tony parker wasn't a lil bitch who was upset he wasnt the guy anymore

Kawhi was in foul trouble early in games 1 and 2 and leads in games 3,4,5 were built off the back of Kawhi

He made boris look like a goat role player that team was struggling until he had mvp level play he stepped up and was taking the game over

How is it every time someone opposite of lebron wins finals mvp but lebron's 3-6 and hes the goat? Something doesn't add up

[superduper]

When being a statnerd goes wrong

[superduper]

This post is ****in bananas

Kawhis fmvp in 2014 was a coming out party... the spurs would have still had life in 15, 16 if Tony parker wasn't a lil bitch who was upset he wasnt the guy anymore

Kawhi was in foul trouble early in games 1 and 2 and leads in games 3,4,5 were built off the back of Kawhi

He made boris look like a goat role player that team was struggling until he had mvp level play he stepped up and was taking the game over

How is it every time someone opposite of lebron wins finals mvp but lebron's 3-6 and hes the goat? Something doesn't add up

Stop it. Boris was good.

[Matppak]

Stop it. Boris was good.

I don't think boris wasnt good.... if he was in shape most of his career he could have been great

But he looked like a genius when Kawhi getting to his spots.. which takes 2 players knowing what there doing

[nosfan773]

Boris during those 2-3 years was some of the best big man passing ever

[Hey Yo]

Okay I went back and re read the original post.

I'm am now more stupid

Thank you
Not possible

[FultzNationRISE]

Boris during those 2-3 years was some of the best big man passing ever


This.

[SouBeachTalents]

Boris during those 2-3 years was some of the best big man passing ever
Truth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxT10XO2Zfg

https://media2.giphy.com/media/SBtYdHJv16gco/source.gif

[ImKobe]

How is it meaningless? He played elite defense and averaged 24/9/2/2/2 on 69/54/84 shooting in the 3 straight wins in Miami.

[StrongLurk]

How is it meaningless? He played elite defense and averaged 24/9/2/2/2 on 69/54/84 shooting in the 3 straight wins in Miami.

Meaningless relative to being a legendary, all time great (aka top 25 player of all time) since he didn't play at that level.

Did you read my OP? How does it not make sense?

Do you think Kawhi in the 2014 finals was as good as Kobe in the 09 finals?

If you think putting up 14/7/2 with great defense over a 20+ game playoff stretch is all time great play then we have hundreds or possibly thousands of "all-time greats".

Hell, Kawhi wasn't even that great in the 2015 season either. He only became a top 10 player or so in 2016.

[ImKobe]

Meaningless relative to being a legendary, all time great (aka top 25 player of all time) since he didn't play at that level.

Did you read my OP? How does it not make sense?

Do you think Kawhi in the 2014 finals was as good as Kobe in the 09 finals?

If you think putting up 14/7/2 with great defense over a 20+ game playoff stretch is all time great play then we have hundreds or possibly thousands of "all-time greats".

Hell, Kawhi wasn't even that great in the 2015 season either. He only became a top 10 player or so in 2016.

Well Kobe in 01 and 02 didn't win FMVP but played well enough to be one and had the post-season averages, yet people say his 01 and 02 rings don't count the same because he didn't win the award. Curry was easily the best player on his team in the 2015 Finals and didn't win FMVP and played better than most FMVPs in 2017 and 2018 Finals but he doesn't get the same credit for his rings despite clearly producing at an all-time level. Kyrie Irving didn't win FMVP in 2016 but was statistically better than a lot of FMVPs in the past, should he also get more credit for his title?

So are we going to be consistent with this or are we just doing it to hate on Kawhi? Of course his 2014 Finals/Playoff run isn't that legendary but he was the best player in 3 straight wins against the Miami Big 3 and deserves the credit for it. He was highly efficient and played DPOY-level defense.

[sdot_thadon]

I get what OP is saying, it's not a strong chip to use to justify Kawhi in an all time sense. He was deserving, he played well, however he wasn't the 1st or 2nd, perhaps not even 3rd option on that Spurs team. Meanwhile he also wasn't close to being the team leader either. He was a young role player who had a great finals series. His finals Mvp is as valuable as Parker's(this might be pushing it because Tony was allstar caliber at least) , Iggy or someone like that. You can't walk around acting like he legit led the spurs as the main man.

[Rico2016]

I get what OP is saying, it's not a strong chip to use to justify Kawhi in an all time sense. He was deserving, he played well, however he wasn't the 1st or 2nd, perhaps not even 3rd option on that Spurs team. Meanwhile he also wasn't close to being the team leader either. He was a young role player who had a great finals series. His finals Mvp is as valuable as Parker's(this might be pushing it because Tony was allstar caliber at least) , Iggy or someone like that. You can't walk around acting like he legit led the spurs as the main man.


+1

Spurs were so stacked that year.

[superduper]

+1

Spurs were so stacked that year.

They were not at all stacked. They just played the epitome of selfless, team-first, opposite of statpadding basketball and executed at an extremely high level for eachother.

Bran and his teams will never understand that because of his selfish style.

[k0kakw0rld]

KD forfeited that award which happens to be called "best player in the world" when he joined a 73-9 team who already had won and reached the finals multiple times without him.

None of his rings should count. Kawhi won because he was assigned the toughest assignment there was at the time. Not only did he do a great job despite LeBron doing his thing. But he had to work hard for all of his buckets. The same way Iguodala made hom work in 2015 and also managed to produce big time offensively.

[ILLsmak]

You completely misunderstood what I said. No surprise.

The beat the bejeezus out of them tho. I have vivid memories of kawhi grillin dudes

The 2014 spurs weren't an atg level team but after they decimated their opponent people started acting like they were, so in a way that adds value to his fmvp. The only fmvp that's straight garbage is iggys.

-Smak

[STATUTORY]

that's like saying Lebron's final appearance in 2007 is meaningless

[sdot_thadon]

that's like saying Lebron's final appearance in 2007 is meaningless
:biggums:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Meaningless?

18ppg, good efficiency and GOAT level team defense. That FMVP is legit. And Kawhi was SA's best player in that series.

[StrongLurk]

Meaningless?

18ppg, good efficiency and GOAT level team defense. That FMVP is legit. And Kawhi was SA's best player in that series.

You didn't read what I posted in the OP or my subsequent posts.

[Spurs m8]

+1

Spurs were so stacked that year.

Jesus, I already knew you were on the spectrum, but not this much hahhhahaha

[ArbitraryWater]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aJ2Vh_e2dQ

[PickernRoller]

Bran stans fear of Kawhi just elevates him more.

I love it.

[FromDowntown]

I get what OP is saying, it's not a strong chip to use to justify Kawhi in an all time sense. He was deserving, he played well, however he wasn't the 1st or 2nd, perhaps not even 3rd option on that Spurs team. Meanwhile he also wasn't close to being the team leader either. He was a young role player who had a great finals series. His finals Mvp is as valuable as Parker's(this might be pushing it because Tony was allstar caliber at least) , Iggy or someone like that. You can't walk around acting like he legit led the spurs as the main man.

Its a strong point for sure. It isnt the most fantastic Finals mvp we can agree on this much.

[DoctorP]

worst trophy of all time

[sdot_thadon]

Its a strong point for sure. It isnt the most fantastic Finals mvp we can agree on this much.
To give it an even more clear perspective ask youself: Who in the top 20 or so all time has a lower tier Fmvp run than Kawhi's 2014. It wont really give him an edge over anyone that matters in these discussions to be honest. Again I'm not a big fan of denigrating accomplishments but I can see where Op was going with it.

[StrongLurk]

I get what OP is saying, it's not a strong chip to use to justify Kawhi in an all time sense. He was deserving, he played well, however he wasn't the 1st or 2nd, perhaps not even 3rd option on that Spurs team. Meanwhile he also wasn't close to being the team leader either. He was a young role player who had a great finals series. His finals Mvp is as valuable as Parker's(this might be pushing it because Tony was allstar caliber at least) , Iggy or someone like that. You can't walk around acting like he legit led the spurs as the main man.

Hey, someone who understands. Whadayaknow?

I'm not even hating on Kawhi, just reminding ISH of context and level of play.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You didn't read what I posted in the OP or my subsequent posts.

My point was aimed right at your OP.

And "subsequent posts".

On an all time scale it isn't meaningless. Its not MJ-esque or whatever but who cares. There are tons of FMVP that weren't on MJ's level.

Kawhi was their best player in THAT series. Period.

[StrongLurk]

My point was aimed right at your OP.

And "subsequent posts".

On an all time scale it isn't meaningless. Its not MJ-esque or whatever but who cares. There are tons of FMVP that weren't on MJ's level.

Kawhi was their best player in THAT series. Period.

You are too enamored with the FMVP.

There were many players who didn't win a FMVP that played better in the finals than Kawhi did in 2014.

He got hot for three games, big credit to him, but he was still a cog in the Spurs machine (Not like prime Duncan).

I mean you kind of make my point with "it's not MJ-esque"...it's not "anybody esque" of even a top 100 player of all time.

Now 2019 was a different story, Kawhi played like an all time great, win or lose.

[SamuraiSWISH]

that's like saying Lebron's final appearance in 2007 is meaningless
Do they give trophies for appearances?

:eek:

[Mr Feeny]

+1

Spurs were so stacked that year.

Lebron
Wade
Bosh
Allen
Barrier
Chalmers
Anderson
Cole
Haslam

Vs

Baby Kawhi
38 year old Duncan
37 year old Manu
32 year old Parker whose explosivness was non-existent

And yes, Kawhi is better at elevating his teammates. That's why his inferior teammates over performed while Lebron's legends underperformed.

And that is why he won the fMVP.

[Spurs m8]

Out of sheer interest, OP, who do you think should have won FMVP that year?

And if Kawhi is your answer, and he managed to do that at age 22, with a peakish Lebron as his direct opponent, then what's the issue?

Did he not get enough empty stats?

[Manny98]

Lebron
Broken down knees Wade
Bosh
39 year old Allen
36 year old Barrier
36 year old Anderson
Chalmers

Vs

Kawhi
38 year old Duncan
37 year old Manu
Parker
Best 3+D player Danny Green
Mills

And yes, Kawhi didn't elevate shit.

He won FMVP because he was on the winning team that's it.
Fixed

[Spurs m8]

Fixed

Thanks Tranny....Patty Mills was a real game changer!

[Mr Feeny]

Fixed


Sorry pal. You already admitted that Lebron was 11th all time:lol

[superduper]

Sorry pal. You already admitted that Lebron was 11th all time:lol

Boom :oldlol:

[Lebron6]

Boom :oldlol:
:no:

Not all FMVP are created equal tho

[k0kakw0rld]

worst trophy of all time
Defense is an underappreciated art. When the best player in the world is afraid of you getting back on the court, I believe you should be a well deserving candidate for FMVP.