The Warriors are so much better at moving the ball without Durant in the lineup

[Ben Simmons 25]

It's actually pathetic that people still think Durant is their best player and the best player in the world.

1 on 1 basketball isn't... 5 on 5 basketball. It's a different thing. There are some overlaps, but not that much. Team dynamics are so much more complex than 1 on 1 play, it's hard to even articulate.

People are dumb. Most of you are dumb.

[elementally morale]

I agree with you on this one. But you know that. We are the two people here who are not GSW fans and are saying Curry has been the best player in the NBA the last 3 or 4 years.

[Ben Simmons 25]

I agree with you on this one. But you know that. We are the two people here who are not GSW fans and are saying Curry has been the best player in the NBA the last 3 or 4 years.

Probably the only two that weren't GSW fans long before Durant, it's true, lol.

Cheers.

[NBAGOAT]

as you said. It's mostly people who focus on scoring and mainly iso scoring who thought that about durant. Some people posted how kd was putting up like 60ts% in the playoffs with curry out on great volume and volume went down when curry came in. What they failed to mention is it went up to 70ts% when he was in. the attention he gets just from being on the court helps a lot.

[Bronbron23]

He's easily the best player on the team. The warriors look just as good without him only because the teams there facing arnt defending the screens well. When a team does that's when warriors will need kd and his iso capabilities. Kd with warriors and Kyrie with Celtics are very similar. Theyre both the best players on there teams but neither is really needed until the finals

[stalkerforlife]

Durant is the best ISO player alive.

Curry is the best system alive. Like, an entire system. Everyone eats and a few get catapulted into star status.

[Indian guy]

The whole KD-is-carrying-GS talk from earlier in the playoffs looks so dumb now. GS is still the best team in the league without him. Obviously, better with him, but his presence is just overkill.

[Ben Simmons 25]

He's easily the best player on the team. The warriors look just as good without him only because the teams there facing arnt defending the screens well. When a team does that's when warriors will need kd and his iso capabilities. Kd with warriors and Kyrie with Celtics are very similar. Theyre both the best players on there teams but neither is really needed until the finals

No... no he's not "easily the best player on the team."

The NBA isn't a 1 on 1 contest. Eat shit.

[Ben Simmons 25]

Durant is the best ISO player alive.

That's probably true. In fact, I'd say it is. But that's not 5 on 5 basketball. The only time a team NEEDS that is when an entire offense has broken down due to nerves or amazing defense on the other side... which those things don't happen THAT often.

[DMAVS41]

The whole KD-is-carrying-GS talk from earlier in the playoffs looks so dumb now. GS is still the best team in the league without him. Obviously, better with him, but his presence is just overkill.

This.

KD might be the best player...he might be better than Curry...all reasonable thoughts...etc.

However, we can we all just bury the narrative that KD was "carrying" the Warriors all this time?

Please, can we just all retire that?

They are like 30-1 without KD and with Steph now in the last 31 games. Shit is over...KD stans ****ing lost that argument no matter what happens the rest of the way.

Warriors are a title contending team without him. And he's a ****ing delusional bitch for joining them.

[Bronbron23]

No... no he's not "easily the best player on the team."

The NBA isn't a 1 on 1 contest. Eat shit.
Yes he is. The warriors system works fine without him with there movement, screens and shooting capabilities but kd is definitely the best player. They're gonna need him against the bucks. You'll See

[1987_Lakers]

Durant is only needed when they play a dynamic 1-2 punch like LeBron-Kyrie. You saw what Durant-Westbrook did to this team in 2016 as well. Without Durant they move the ball much better, but at the same time they only have Curry that can create his own shot. I believe this became a problem when they played teams like OKC & Cleveland in the past.

The thing is in today's NBA, those teams with a dynamic 1-2 punch don't exist anymore so Durant isn't needed as much.

[tpols]

real shocker mate...

[elementally morale]

This.

KD might be the best player...he might be better than Curry...all reasonable thoughts...etc.

Durant is a better defender and a better 1 on 1 player.

But basketball is 5 on 5. And Curry is a LOT better at that. If you want a team... you select Curry. If you already have a team, go with Durant.

[Bronbron23]

This.

KD might be the best player...he might be better than Curry...all reasonable thoughts...etc.

However, we can we all just bury the narrative that KD was "carrying" the Warriors all this time?

Please, can we just all retire that?

They are like 30-1 without KD and with Steph now in the last 31 games. Shit is over...KD stans ****ing lost that argument no matter what happens the rest of the way.

Warriors are a title contending team without him. And he's a ****ing delusional bitch for joining them.
I'm not a kd fan but how have they lost no matter what happens now? With kd they'd beat the bucks. Without him they'll lose. Beating the rockets with a washed up Chris Paul isn't that impressive. Beating the blazers isn't either

[Ben Simmons 25]

Durant is a better defender and a better 1 on 1 player.

But basketball is 5 on 5. And Curry is a LOT better at that. If you want a team... you select Curry. If you already have a team, go with Durant.

:cheers:

[1987_Lakers]

I'm not a kd fan but how have they lost no matter what happens now? With kd they'd beat the bucks. Without him they'll lose. Beating the rockets with a washed up Chris Paul isn't that impressive. Beating the blazers isn't either

Chris Paul balled out in that game 6 and they still lost. I don't care what anyone says, that one game vs Houston alone should tell you how dangerous this team is without KD.

[imdaman99]

How do you explain Curry being the best player, he has 0 points against the 2nd best team in the league at halftime and the game is tied. Sure he has a big impact, it's the Curry system. But impact does not mean you're the best player. It just means you're the most important player.

[Ben Simmons 25]

How do you explain Curry being the best player, he has 0 points against the 2nd best team in the league at halftime and the game is tied. Sure he has a big impact, it's the Curry system. But impact does not mean you're the best player. It just means you're the most important player.

It's the same thing. Lol.

"Bill Russell wasn't the GOAT... Wilt was better in the same era even!" said every ignorant NBA fan ever that doesn't understand team dynamics.

[elementally morale]

But impact does not mean you're the best player. It just means you're the most important player.


Huh?

You play to win the game. If you are the most impactful and most important... then you are the best.

[JohnMax]

I agree with you on this one. But you know that. We are the two people here who are not GSW fans and are saying Curry has been the best player in the NBA the last 3 or 4 years.

Count me as 3rd person who believes Curry has been best player in the NBA since 2015. The problem is Curry is too soft to realize he has racist enemies and needs a tough team like Zach Randolph/Tony Allen Grizzlies to prevent teams from intentionally injuring his teammates. link (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13676580&postcount=8)

[imdaman99]

It's the same thing. Lol.

"Bill Russell wasn't the GOAT... Wilt was better in the same era even!" said every ignorant NBA fan ever that doesn't understand team dynamics.
If you switched out Bill and Wilt, how many rings does Bill end up with? Does Wilt get more?

[Ben Simmons 25]

If you switched out Bill and Wilt, how many rings does Bill end up with? Does Wilt get more?

Impossible to say but Wilt definitely doesn't get more than Bill. No way.

"But his teammates doe!"

I would say most of the time, throughout NBA history, that's a true statement.

Not in the case of Bill Russell. He won in high school, he won in the NCAA, and he won 11/13 in the NBA. That's more than just "lucky career with great teammates." They went to shit the moment he retired.


His defense and ball sharing was basically the equivalent of what we see today out of Steph, except Steph does it on offense.

[bdonovan]

I spent the last year and a half documenting examples from Warriors games on this board where Durant did not rotate correctly, refused to guard certain offensive players, allowed himself to be screened off a play, conserved energy on defense, did not provide help defense, etc.

Those who aren't Warriors fans and don't watch every game are led astray by ESPN highlight reels.

When Durant was injured Game 5, I said on these boards it wouldn't make a difference given that his deficiencies in aspects of team defense (and team offense) offset his individual offense greatness. I was loudly contradicted by many, but GSW went on to beat HOU at their home where they had beaten GSW in 2 prior games in the series (with Durant). The result did not surprise me given what I've observed for the last two years in terms of the net effect Durant has on the Warriors.

Mark Jackson may strenuously disagree but Mark Jackson is occasionally wrong. Bias can affect anyone even former players (in this case bias towards exceptional individual offense versus other less-sexy aspects of the game).

To understand Durant's full impact, you have to watch off the ball, esp. on the defensive side to know why we're seeing the Warriors coast w/out him. See the Portland game today. It was won by exceptional defense; team defense. The Warriors kept Portland to 36% FG. All those little things- switching, fighting through screens on the defensive end, helping on D, not leaving your man to get a high profile block (that usually backfires), etc. add up. They are almost imperceptible individually but collectively are game-changing.

In this environment, I forgive fans for being led astray because even so-called experts (who btw also do not watch enough Warriors games, because they have to follow every team in the league) have drank the Kool-Aid. It's unfortunate it took a Durant injury in the postseason for at least some though to recognize how capable GSW are, with or without KD.

[Ben Simmons 25]

I spent the last year and a half documenting examples from Warriors games on this board where Durant did not rotate correctly, refused to guard certain offensive players, allowed himself to be screened off a play, conserved energy on defense, did not provide help defense, etc.

Those who aren't Warriors fans and don't watch every game are led astray by ESPN highlight reels.

When Durant was injured Game 5, I said on these boards it wouldn't make a difference given that his deficiencies in aspects of team defense (and team offense) offset his individual offense greatness. I was loudly contradicted by many, but GSW went on to beat HOU at their home where they had beaten GSW in 2 prior games in the series (with Durant). The result did not surprise me given what I've observed for the last two years in terms of the net effect Durant has on the Warriors.

Mark Jackson may strenuously disagree but Mark Jackson is occasionally wrong. Bias can affect anyone even former players (in this case bias towards exceptional individual offense versus other less-sexy aspects of the game).

To understand Durant's full impact, you have to watch off the ball, esp. on the defensive side to know why we're seeing the Warriors coast w/out him. See the Portland game today. It was won by exceptional defense; team defense. The Warriors kept Portland to 36% FG. All those little things- switching, fighting through screens, helping on D, not leaving your man to get a high profile block (that usually backfires), etc. add up. They are almost imperceptible individually but collectively are game-changing.

In this environment, I forgive fans for being led astray because even so-called experts (who btw also do not watch enough Warriors games, because they have to follow every team in the league) have drank the Kool-Aid. It's unfortunate it took a Durant injury in the postseason for at least some though to recognize how capable GSW are, with or without KD.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

To be honest though, these guys could watch an entire season of Warriors basketball and still not pick up on those types of things. So... yeah.

[Cleverness]

I spent the last year and a half documenting examples from Warriors games on this board where Durant did not rotate correctly, refused to guard certain offensive players, allowed himself to be screened off a play, conserved energy on defense, did not provide help defense, etc.

Those who aren't Warriors fans and don't watch every game are led astray by ESPN highlight reels.

When Durant was injured Game 5, I said on these boards it wouldn't make a difference given that his deficiencies in aspects of team defense (and team offense) offset his individual offense greatness. I was loudly contradicted by many, but GSW went on to beat HOU at their home where they had beaten GSW in 2 prior games in the series (with Durant). The result did not surprise me given what I've observed for the last two years in terms of the net effect Durant has on the Warriors.

Mark Jackson may strenuously disagree but Mark Jackson is occasionally wrong. Bias can affect anyone even former players (in this case bias towards exceptional individual offense versus other less-sexy aspects of the game).

To understand Durant's full impact, you have to watch off the ball, esp. on the defensive side to know why we're seeing the Warriors coast w/out him. See the Portland game today. It was won by exceptional defense; team defense. The Warriors kept Portland to 36% FG. All those little things- switching, fighting through screens on the defensive end, helping on D, not leaving your man to get a high profile block (that usually backfires), etc. add up. They are almost imperceptible individually but collectively are game-changing.

In this environment, I forgive fans for being led astray because even so-called experts (who btw also do not watch enough Warriors games, because they have to follow every team in the league) have drank the Kool-Aid. It's unfortunate it took a Durant injury in the postseason for at least some though to recognize how capable GSW are, with or without KD.

qft. love the bolded part. it also happens when guys gamble for a steal.

@ OP, can you name some players you'd think the Warriors would be better off with in place of Durant?

[Uncle Drew]

I agree with you on this one. But you know that. We are the two people here who are not GSW fans and are saying Curry has been the best player in the NBA the last 3 or 4 years.
Holy shit, the levels of narcism. :roll: Everyone with half a brain has been saying this for a long while. Don't pat yourself on the back too hard or you might hurt yourself.

[DMAVS41]

I'm not a kd fan but how have they lost no matter what happens now? With kd they'd beat the bucks. Without him they'll lose. Beating the rockets with a washed up Chris Paul isn't that impressive. Beating the blazers isn't either

Because not one person is arguing that they are better without him. That is why.

And, the Warriors pre-KD...there wasn't a gaping hole in the middle of the team like there is now without him. They had Barnes...and were always going to improve that spot.

It wasn't KD or nothing.

Your post is exactly what I'm talking about. A team going 29-1 without Durant and potentially making the finals...apparently doesn't matter. Like...what?

And we are supposed to give Durant a bunch of credit for winning titles on a team that is about as good as anyone else in the league without him? And already proved they could win a title and set the wins record with Harrison Barnes instead of him??????

I just...I can't believe that we have to explain this shit to people. Its all happened less than 5 years ago. It is happening right now...people need to stop pretending that Klay/Curry/Green/Iggy isn't probably the best top 4 in the league. Yes, they lack depth, but it is still an elite roster capable of beating any team...and they continue to prove it night in night out with KD.

Again...how are we having this debate when a team is ****ing 29-1 without KD? It is over for KD stans...they lost. Doesn't matter if the Blazers come back...etc. No team should be capable of losing their "best player" and going 29-1...and win big road playoff elimination games as well.

It was stupid and unfair when KD joined...and nothing has changed. Despite what he and his moronic fan base claim.

[Bankaii]

I've never seen someone so consistently wrong always be so adamant on their own opinion lol.

[Phoenix]

As I've said before, KD is the worst's best insurance policy. Their record without him the past 3 years is a damning argument against the idea that he is carrying them.

[34-24 Footwork]

Because not one person is arguing that they are better without him. That is why.

And, the Warriors pre-KD...there wasn't a gaping hole in the middle of the team like there is now without him. They had Barnes...and were always going to improve that spot.

It wasn't KD or nothing.

Your post is exactly what I'm talking about. A team going 29-1 without Durant and potentially making the finals...apparently doesn't matter. Like...what?

And we are supposed to give Durant a bunch of credit for winning titles on a team that is about as good as anyone else in the league without him? And already proved they could win a title and set the wins record with Harrison Barnes instead of him??????

I just...I can't believe that we have to explain this shit to people. Its all happened less than 5 years ago. It is happening right now...people need to stop pretending that Klay/Curry/Green/Iggy isn't probably the best top 4 in the league. Yes, they lack depth, but it is still an elite roster capable of beating any team...and they continue to prove it night in night out with KD.

Again...how are we having this debate when a team is ****ing 29-1 without KD? It is over for KD stans...they lost. Doesn't matter if the Blazers come back...etc. No team should be capable of losing their "best player" and going 29-1...and win big road playoff elimination games as well.

It was stupid and unfair when KD joined...and nothing has changed. Despite what he and his moronic fan base claim.

Do the Warriors beat the bucks or raptors without KD? Yes or no? Are Steph, Klay, and Dray enough? Do they have anyone to make Kawhi or Giannis work defensively?

And what do you mean by "it doesn't matter if the Blazers come back"? You insinuating that if the Blazers beat the Warriors, it won't be because they didn't have KD?

[Ben Simmons 25]

I've never seen someone so consistently wrong always be so adamant on their own opinion lol.

You're a dumb ******.

If you don't think the Warriors play more as a team and move the ball more without KD, you LITERALLY have not watched a SINGLE Warriors game. Not one. NOT ONE!!!

Not in anything other than a coma induced brain dead state, anyways.

Not a single ****ing game.

[34-24 Footwork]

Peep how everyone is looking to discredit KD. It's fascinating. Make matters worse, it's the same people who were discrediting Curry for not winning FMVP. If the Warriors were sent home last series, believe me, there wouldnt be this weird coalition of LeBron and Curry stans joining forces to shit on KD.

I vividly remember them playing team ball and losing in dramatic fashion in 2016. No one was giving them credit for how well they "moved the ball" after that finals loss.

Now they finally get a go to player that can operate from the mid-post, see the court, go into a triple threat, absorb contract, and take what the defense gives him, but it's messed up because he "holds the ball" too much over the course of a game. Think about how stupid this shit sounds.

[Ben Simmons 25]

Peep how everyone is looking to discredit KD. It's fascinating. Make matters worse, it's the same people who were discrediting Curry for not winning FMVP. If the Warriors were sent home last series, believe me, there wouldnt be this weird coalition of LeBron and Curry stans joining forces to shit on KD.

I vividly remember them playing team ball and losing in dramatic fashion in 2016. No one was giving them credit for how well they "moved the ball" after that finals loss.

Now they finally get a go to player that can operate from the mid-post, see the court, go into a triple threat, absorb contract, and take what the defense gives him, but it's messed up because he "holds the ball" too much over the course of a game. Think about how stupid this shit sounds.

They lost in 2016 because of Draymond's suspension. On top of losing a game, he then came back and played completely passively and shellshocked in game 6 offering virtually nothing other than a hot body on the court. He came back in game 7, but the entire team was shaken at that point.

You know it, and I know it.

The Cavs should have won in 2015, and the Warriors should have won in 2016.

Anyone paying attention and honest about it should be able to tell you this.

You're the type to knock LeBron for dominating the ball and then credit KD for doing it... even though LeBron looks to get people more involved than KD does. KD is primarily looking to score.

You're a hypocrite, you're ignorant, and you should never post again. Ever.

The Warriors won 73 games without him. If he's so incredibly amazing and lifts teams to such great heights, they should have won that many games again AT LEAST. They didn't. Because he's a ball stopper. A really great one. But he is a ball stopper.

[34-24 Footwork]

As entertaining as it is to see GS "move the ball" the entire game, we've only seen it work toward a ring once against a banged up 2015 Western Conference playoffs and against a volume shooting LeBron :lol

73 wins from " beautilful ball movement" but took the L. Turns out that having your barely-able dribbling PF whipping backdoor passes to Curry or Klay down the stretch of close, physical games in the finals isn't a recipe for success.

You know what has been? Kevin Durant.

[34-24 Footwork]

Cant wait til the Warriors get rid of KD and plug in another guy like Barnes so that the defense can have ANOTHER player on the Warriors who they don't have to guard instead of just Draymond.

I'm sure Curry and Klay LOVE the idea of having more athletic defenders play free safety, roam the passing lanes to pick off passes, and grab and hold them in their baseline screens. With Klay and Curry being the only guys on the court who can shoot for the Warriors, I'm sure the league STILL hasn't caught up with how to guard them effectively over a course of 7 games.

Why can't we just go back to 2016 when all was well with the Warriors?

They REALLY convinced y'all that the 73-win season was a championship season. Lol

[Loco 50]

It's almost like Westbrook wasn't the only problem in Okc. I'm stunned.

Durant loves isoball to the detriment of his teammates. Always has.

[34-24 Footwork]

I'm glad the Warriors front office isn't as stupid as some of the fans :lol :lol

They should just move Jerebko, Lee, or the other G-League guy to take KD's spot so they can have better ball movement in the future :lol

This thread is gold.

[Doranku]

Been saying since KD joined GS that they would likely win the championship without him. Now it's coming to fruition. :applause:

[Meticode]

Warriors will be fine when Durant leaves. As long as they keep Klay, Curry and Green as a core that's still a three all-star core and they can add more substantial pieces than what they have now minus Cousins and Durant. Kerr has that team in the right mindset when they play. It also helps when you have the greatest shooter of all time along with a Top 3 shooter of all time when his career is done in Klay.

[Meticode]

It's almost like Westbrook wasn't the only problem in Okc. I'm stunned.

Durant loves isoball to the detriment of his teammates. Always has.
OKC has done worse since Durant left though. :lol

[Big164]

It's almost like Westbrook wasn't the only problem in Okc. I'm stunned.

Durant loves isoball to the detriment of his teammates. Always has.
Amen!!!!!


Realsst thing ill read all morning!

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

They'll need Durant if they want to win against Milwaukee.

I have Toronto beating them, but Milwaukee has enough talent and depth to stymie a Durant-less Warrior team.

At some point, their gutted bench will begin to show. And the Warrior starters will finally look wasted. That's when KD will be needed most.

[Haymaker]

KD gives GSW a reliable top scorer who diverts attention from Curry & Klay. That's why it's almost impossible to beat them in 7 games. They went 73 wins without him, now with him, they basically shut the door behind them and they will never lose until KD leave or someone gets injured.

[Indian guy]

Kobe fans sound so butt-hurt in this thread :oldlol:. Durant being the biggest poosy in sports history will forever hold a special place in their hearts because it assured the only thing they care about (LeBron losing). So they continue to pedal this fantasy where it was either KD or bust for GS after 2016. Rightttt :rolleyes:. As if simply a small upgrade over Harrison Barnes wouldn't have done the trick. Or heck, a few bounces here and there and they would've even won in 2016. But it's not the big security blanket the presence of KD on a 73-win roster gives Kobe fans, so they'll continue to push this agenda of him being oh so necessary as opposed to the league-ruining overkill that it was.

Which makes GS' dominance without KD the last 3 seasons + the continued mockery of his worthless rings so enjoyable. And that's what infuriates Kobe fans. They want the world to believe KD's presence was a major necessity for GS to triumph over LeBron the last 2 Finals (you know, when GS annihilated Cleveland). I bet they root against GS like no tomorrow when KD's out.

[warriorfan]

Kobe fans sound so butt-hurt in this thread :oldlol:. Durant being the biggest poosy in sports history will forever hold a special place in their hearts because it assured the only thing they care about (LeBron losing). So they continue to pedal this fantasy where it was either KD or bust for GS after 2016. Rightttt :rolleyes:. As if simply a small upgrade over Harrison Barnes wouldn't have done the trick. Or heck, a few bounces here and there and they would've even won in 2016. But it's not the big security blanket the presence of KD on a 73-win roster gives Kobe fans, so they'll continue to push this agenda of him being oh so necessary as opposed to the league-ruining overkill that it was.

Which makes GS' dominance without KD the last 3 seasons + the continued mockery of his worthless rings so enjoyable. And that's what infuriates Kobe fans. They want the world to believe KD's presence was a major necessity for GS to triumph over LeBron the last 2 Finals (you know, when GS annihilated Cleveland). I bet they root against GS like no tomorrow when KD's out.

The grief, the anger, the unyielding despair

:D

Thank you. Come again. :applause:

[Bankaii]

You're a dumb ******.

If you don't think the Warriors play more as a team and move the ball more without KD, you LITERALLY have not watched a SINGLE Warriors game. Not one. NOT ONE!!!

Not in anything other than a coma induced brain dead state, anyways.

Not a single ****ing game.
You alright dude?

Never did I suggest that, I actually agree fully with this particular point.

But I've seen some suggest the Warriors are better without KD, which is absolutely moronic.
I personally believe your point about Curry being the BITW the past 3-4 years is also dumb, but that's an opinion.

[Ben Simmons 25]

Anyone who thinks the Warriors definitively NEEDED KD for the past 2 titles is a moron.

The Warriors *ONLY* lost in 2016 because Draymond Green had an emotional outburst that cost him essentially what amounts to 2 games.

They were going to win that series in 5 games.

Guess what, fellas? They don't gut their depth in the 2016 offseason if KD is never in the picture... and they're just as good if not better than they were.

2016 Golden State Warriors > 2017, 2018 Golden State Warriors.

That's not an opinion. It's a fact. "HURR DURR BUT THEY LOST TITLE 2016 NO DURANT AND WON TITLE 2017 & 2018 WITH DURANT HRUR DURRRRRR LOLZZ YOU MORAN BENSIMMONS LOLZZZZZZZZULOLOUL!!" Nope... you're a surface level thinking moron. **** off.

KD's ball dominance causes Curry to float in and out of games in terms of focus and engagement. Throw that in with KD's ball stopping, and both of those things are a detriment to their entire team on both sides of the court.

The thing that KD provides the most for the Warriors is... someone who can ISO you a bucket when shit gets tight in the closing moments. But the Warriors were so good without him, back when they had depth, most of the time, they didn't need an ISO player in the last 2 minutes of games because they were winning by so much.

[SouBeachTalents]

Anyone who thinks the Warriors definitively NEEDED KD for the past 2 titles is a moron.

The Warriors *ONLY* lost in 2016 because Draymond Green had an emotional outburst that cost him essentially what amounts to 2 games.

They were going to win that series in 5 games.

Guess what, fellas? They don't gut their depth in the 2016 offseason if KD is never in the picture... and they're just as good if not better than they were.

2016 Golden State Warriors > 2017, 2018 Golden State Warriors.

That's not an opinion. It's a fact.
In the playoffs? 2017 Warriors > 2016. They were scorched earth that postseason, nearly running the table

[warriorfan]

In the playoffs? 2017 Warriors > 2016. They were scorched earth that postseason, nearly running the table

Maybe because Curry tore his MCL in 2016? Uhhh might have something to do with it?

Lmfao ****ing so low iq

[Ben Simmons 25]

In the playoffs? 2017 Warriors > 2016. They were scorched earth that postseason, nearly running the table

That might be true... but it's clear that overall Durant *CAN* be a detriment to the entire team. Not that he IS. Not that he ISN'T a great player. He is clearly a ****ing amazing player. But team dynamics are more complicated than that. It's also NOT true that they definitively "NEEDED" Durant in 2017 to win the title. I don't believe it. They hold onto their depth instead, and they're right there.

And warriorfan was right all along. Curry did also lose a little something because of that injury despite his "I'M HERE I'M BACK" egotistical cocksucking bullshit. But nevertheless, I still maintain they only lost in 2016 because Draymond Green is emotionally retarded.

I personally can't stand Curry's cocky little ass, but greatness is greatness and I have to admit the truth.

[Phoenix]

Binary events folks. 2016 happened as it did for any number of reasons, its not to say that the same thing would have happened again in 2017 without KD, or if you pressed a rewind button and replayed the 2016 series under the same conditions that the Cavs win again. KD merely ensured that no team ( other than the 2017 Rockets) would ever really threaten the Warriors during this run. Was he needed? I don't think so. The 2016 Warriors were one shitty behind the back pass turnover by Steph, one from out of nowhere block from Lebron, one Kyrie jumper over Steph away from history recording the outcome of that series differently. In other words, games won or loss on how the ball bounces. There's little reason to think that the Warriors couldn't have upgraded from Barnes( and there's alot of small forwards better than him but not close to KD) and won in subsequent years.

[Ben Simmons 25]

You alright dude?

Never did I suggest that, I actually agree fully with this particular point.

But I've seen some suggest the Warriors are better without KD, which is absolutely moronic.
I personally believe your point about Curry being the BITW the past 3-4 years is also dumb, but that's an opinion.

My bad. I misinterpreted. I apologize.

[Ben Simmons 25]

Binary events folks. 2016 happened as it did for any number of reasons, its not to say that the same thing would have happened again in 2017 without KD, or if you pressed a rewind button and replayed the 2016 series under the same conditions that the Cavs win again. KD merely ensured that no team ( other than the 2017 Rockets) would ever really threaten the Warriors during this run. Was he needed? I don't think so. The 2016 Warriors were one shitty behind the back pass turnover by Steph, one from out of nowhere block from Lebron, one Kyrie jumper over Steph away from history recording the outcome of that series differently. In other words, games won or loss on how the ball bounces. There's little reason to think that the Warriors couldn't have upgraded from Barnes( and there's alot of small forwards better than him but not close to KD) and won in subsequent years.


I don't think it's fair to compare a turnover or a missed shot or a made shot to a guy having an emotional outburst yet AGAIN and costing his team literally 2 games because of it, by which point the momentum had shifted... and it still only came down to 1 shot.

We can play the "woulda coulda shoulda" game a thousand different ways, no doubt about it, you're right... but Draymond definitively costing them 2 games for NON BASKETBALL RELATED REASONS was clearly the by far and away biggest reason they lost that series. It's not close.

[Phoenix]

I don't think it's fair to compare a turnover or a missed shot or a made shot to a guy having an emotional outburst yet AGAIN and costing his team literally 2 games because of it, by which point the momentum had shifted... and it still only came down to 1 shot.

We can play the "woulda coulda shoulda" game a thousand different ways, no doubt about it, you're right... but Draymond definitively costing them 2 games for NON BASKETBALL RELATED REASONS was clearly the by far and away biggest reason they lost that series. It's not close.

The main point I was making is these events occur as they occur . I don't know the percentages or the ratio of which event is more or less to blame than others....only that what happened and yes Draymond was a factor. So was dumb turnovers. So was whatever else that happened in the manner it did. They all play some part, in some way. That's simply the natural and organic flow of how a basketball game goes, much like life really. It's like the ole throw a stone in the lake and watch the ripple effect. Everything impacts everything else which impacts everything else....and so on.

The main point of what I'm saying, KD joining the Warriors was basically overkill. There's any number of players who could have filled his spot and they're still positioned to win from 2017 till now.

[NBAGOAT]

how the warriors do next year if kd leaves could answer a lot of questions. Yea they might sign more bench guys or a free agent sf but it'll be a good evidence of kd's impact(unless one of the big 3 really declines or they get another star somehow).

They're not going be 2016 level since lot of role guys are older and they're depth is worse. That team legitimately looked like a solid playoff team that could win 50+ without curry and was beating some other playoff teams easily(then again that still means curry was worth like 20+wins which is huge). I think 55 wins is a good over/under number.

[DMAVS41]

Do the Warriors beat the bucks or raptors without KD? Yes or no? Are Steph, Klay, and Dray enough? Do they have anyone to make Kawhi or Giannis work defensively?

And what do you mean by "it doesn't matter if the Blazers come back"? You insinuating that if the Blazers beat the Warriors, it won't be because they didn't have KD?

My god, it is unreal...

I don't know about whether or not they'd beat the Raptors / Bucks...or even Blazers.

My guess would be that they'd beat the Blazers and Raptors, but lose to the Bucks...just a guess...all 3 series likely could go either way without KD.

With KD...obviously I think they are huge favorites.

Again, this is not the point...nobody thinks this team is better without KD. What this team is without him is an elite title contending type team that could beat anyone in the league.

Then you add an all-time great player to said team and it becomes absurd.

Again, what is so ****ing hard to understand?

As to the point about the Blazers...it is because they just lost KD...they didn't replace him. They have a gaping hole on the roster now and limited depth. If they replaced KD with another quality small forward...and lost...then I'd care and it might mean something.

I swear, it is like you people can't remember 4 years ago. This team won 67, a title, 73, and was within 2 plays of another...all with ****ing Harrison Barnes. I see no reason why this team wouldn't be all-time good with just an above average small forward like they were in the past.

And, of course, you clowns need to address the elephant in the room;

29-1 without KD and with Steph in the last 30 games...:roll:

[DMAVS41]

Kobe fans sound so butt-hurt in this thread :oldlol:. Durant being the biggest poosy in sports history will forever hold a special place in their hearts because it assured the only thing they care about (LeBron losing). So they continue to pedal this fantasy where it was either KD or bust for GS after 2016. Rightttt :rolleyes:. As if simply a small upgrade over Harrison Barnes wouldn't have done the trick. Or heck, a few bounces here and there and they would've even won in 2016. But it's not the big security blanket the presence of KD on a 73-win roster gives Kobe fans, so they'll continue to push this agenda of him being oh so necessary as opposed to the league-ruining overkill that it was.

Which makes GS' dominance without KD the last 3 seasons + the continued mockery of his worthless rings so enjoyable. And that's what infuriates Kobe fans. They want the world to believe KD's presence was a major necessity for GS to triumph over LeBron the last 2 Finals (you know, when GS annihilated Cleveland). I bet they root against GS like no tomorrow when KD's out.

Exactly.

But they've already lost. Non elite teams can't go 29-1 when the player that is supposedly "carrying them" goes down...and they certainly don't win road playoff elimination games against other great teams.

It is so hilarious...they all have to pretend that Curry / Klay / Iggy / Green isn't an elite core 4 that would be contending and winning titles with just a Harrison Barnes type player in the lineup.

So pathetic considering we already saw said team ****ing set the NBA wins record and win a title.

:confusedshrug:

[Phoenix]

how the warriors do next year if kd leaves could answer a lot of questions. Yea they might sign more bench guys or a free agent sf but it'll be a good evidence of kd's impact(unless one of the big 3 really declines or they get another star somehow).

They're not going be 2016 level since lot of role guys are older and they're depth is worse. That team legitimately looked like a solid playoff team that could win 50+ without curry and was beating some other playoff teams easily(then again that still means curry was worth like 20+wins which is huge). I think 55 wins is a good over/under number.

The thing is the Warriors culture could motivate other quality players to join and keep the train moving another few years. Steph is 31. Dray and Klay are 29. You got guys like Iggy and Livingston who are aging and will need to be replaced, but there's a culture of excellence under current management which could prove very inviting for prospective free agents. KD leaving opens up a space for someone else, or somebodies else, to shore up the team.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The hell with petty agendas.

I'm a basketball fan. And the Dubs without Durant are fukking good. Be it w/ results, style or just plain entertainment.

[Vino24]

imagine complaining about having Durant on your team. what a luxury :oldlol:

[TheCorporation]

imagine complaining about having Durant on your team. what a luxury :oldlol:

:roll: :roll:

Too true brotha

[NBAGOAT]

The thing is the Warriors culture could motivate other quality players to join and keep the train moving another few years. Steph is 31. Dray and Klay are 29. You got guys like Iggy and Livingston who are aging and will need to be replaced, but there's a culture of excellence under current management which could prove very inviting for prospective free agents. KD leaving opens up a space for someone else, or somebodies else, to shore up the team.

yea theoretically dray would stop coasting if kd leaves but I could still see him chilling during the RS. Free agents can be hit or miss and they dont have much space but I guess I should see who they sign before making conclusions. I saw one article just now, it threw out names like Rudy, Ariza, Marcus Morris, and Danny Green for the mle. Not bad but nothing great and unlikely(most of these guys will ask for more than the mle for one). I've said it before I think 2020 is the year they go after someone after iggy and dray become fa's

[34-24 Footwork]

The hell with petty agendas.

I'm a basketball fan. And the Dubs without Durant are fukking good. Be it w/ results, style or just plain entertainment.

They play to win. Not to be entertaining while being shutout for 5min in a game 7 finals :lol

Warriors need a player that they can CONSISTENTLY lean on when times get tough and the effectiveness of the "entertaining ball movement" runs dry.

They can win AND be entertaining. Not mutually exclusive.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

They play to win. Not to be entertaining while being shutout for 5min in a game 7 finals :lol

Warriors need a player that they can CONSISTENTLY lean on when times get tough and the effectiveness of the "entertaining ball movement" runs dry.

They can win AND be entertaining. Not mutually exclusive.


And shown they can do both without Durant.

Thanks for proving my point, I guess? :confusedshrug:

[Vino24]

And shown they can do both without Durant.

Thanks for proving my point, I guess? :confusedshrug:
Rockets would of won last year and Cavs would of won the year before if it wasn't for Durant's iso game

[DMAVS41]

Rockets would of won last year and Cavs would of won the year before if it wasn't for Durant's iso game

We don't actually know that.

And, again, it wasn't Durant or nobody. You people have to stop acting like they weren't going to upgrade from Barnes with another player or perhaps 2 other players to fill out the depth.

What we are seeing right now is not how the team would look if they didn't sign KD...it would be considerably improved from the team we are watching now.

You know, the team that just won a road elimination game against the Rockets, beat the Blazers in game 1 easily, and has won 29 of the last 30 without KD and with Steph.

Like, as I asked earlier, can we please just retire the "Warriors need Durant" to be elite narrative? It is over...they don't.

Does he make them better? Hell yes. Is KD an amazing player? Hell yes.

Just don't tell me this team without him can't contend...and certainly don't tell me that you know what would have happened last year or the year before with another player or players in place of KD.

Because...not too long ago...not many would have given the Warriors sans KD a chance against the Rockets. Lillard was better than Steph...etc.

I just don't get what is so hard in admitting that with KD...the Warriors are nearly unbeatable unless they play like shit. Without him...they are still contenders, but could lose to a number of the best teams in a playoff series. What is so hard?

[ArbitraryWater]

Do the Warriors beat the bucks or raptors without KD? Yes or no? Are Steph, Klay, and Dray enough? Do they have anyone to make Kawhi or Giannis work defensively?

And what do you mean by "it doesn't matter if the Blazers come back"? You insinuating that if the Blazers beat the Warriors, it won't be because they didn't have KD?

Thats irrelevant to his point.

The fact that they are 2nd best at worst if they DO LOSE the finals without Durant, shows just enough how good they are.

[DMAVS41]

how the warriors do next year if kd leaves could answer a lot of questions. Yea they might sign more bench guys or a free agent sf but it'll be a good evidence of kd's impact(unless one of the big 3 really declines or they get another star somehow).

They're not going be 2016 level since lot of role guys are older and they're depth is worse. That team legitimately looked like a solid playoff team that could win 50+ without curry and was beating some other playoff teams easily(then again that still means curry was worth like 20+wins which is huge). I think 55 wins is a good over/under number.

Not retroactively.

The Warriors already have answered all the relevant questions for this 5 year stretch.

They won 67, a title, 73, within a couple plays of another...then over the last 3 years...have dominated with Steph and without KD.

We all know what they've been these last 5 years. Curry haters and KD stans just can't bring themselves to admit it.

If something changes next year...then it changes next year. It won't change how good these guys have been from 15 to present though.

[tpols]

Like I said alongtime ago... They wouldve been better with prime bogut and anybody that can do better than Harrison "15%" Barnes. Bogut enhanced their big man passing & screen game even more, and was the best rim,protector in the league. Perfect fit.

[NBAGOAT]

Not retroactively.

The Warriors already have answered all the relevant questions for this 5 year stretch.

They won 67, a title, 73, within a couple plays of another...then over the last 3 years...have dominated with Steph and without KD.

We all know what they've been these last 5 years. Curry haters and KD stans just can't bring themselves to admit it.

If something changes next year...then it changes next year. It won't change how good these guys have been from 15 to present though.

it wont change anything retroactively but it'll be easily the biggest amount of data we'll get so could affect our conclusions. The record is ridiculous without kd but I like to see some wowy numbers(which account for opponent srs etc). However tbf kd's never been the most impactful guy in the league based on some plus/minus stuff. Like westbrook I think was doing better in 16.

[DMAVS41]

it wont change anything retroactively but it'll be easily the biggest amount of data we'll get so could affect our conclusions. The record is ridiculous without kd but I like to see some wowy numbers(which account for opponent srs etc). However tbf kd's never been the most impactful guy in the league based on some plus/minus stuff. Like westbrook I think was doing better in 16.

Nah, the biggest amount of data is what we already have. We have 15 and 16 without KD...average of 70 wins...one title, and almost another...

Then we have them winning the last 2 titles...with KD...and now an unreal good record without KD in what is getting to a pretty large sample by itself...and has some playoff games now as well.

Data is in.

This team is a title contending team without KD...an all-time great team with KD that is nearly unbeatable...and probably close to unbeatable with 2 really good rotation players instead of KD if they had gone that route.

Something happening next year is close to irrelevant in my view...especially as the players are now aging in a way that sees a drop off.

[BallsOut]

Because not one person is arguing that they are better without him. That is why.

And, the Warriors pre-KD...there wasn't a gaping hole in the middle of the team like there is now without him. They had Barnes...and were always going to improve that spot.

It wasn't KD or nothing.

Your post is exactly what I'm talking about. A team going 29-1 without Durant and potentially making the finals...apparently doesn't matter. Like...what?

And we are supposed to give Durant a bunch of credit for winning titles on a team that is about as good as anyone else in the league without him? And already proved they could win a title and set the wins record with Harrison Barnes instead of him??????

I just...I can't believe that we have to explain this shit to people. Its all happened less than 5 years ago. It is happening right now...people need to stop pretending that Klay/Curry/Green/Iggy isn't probably the best top 4 in the league. Yes, they lack depth, but it is still an elite roster capable of beating any team...and they continue to prove it night in night out with KD.

Again...how are we having this debate when a team is ****ing 29-1 without KD? It is over for KD stans...they lost. Doesn't matter if the Blazers come back...etc. No team should be capable of losing their "best player" and going 29-1...and win big road playoff elimination games as well.

It was stupid and unfair when KD joined...and nothing has changed. Despite what he and his moronic fan base claim.

If LeBron gets credit for his 3 titles playing with two other prime all-stars, so does Durant. Let's be consistent.

[winwin]

If LeBron gets credit for his 3 titles playing with two other prime all-stars, so does Durant. Let's be consistent.
he's lebron stan kobe/kd hater

[DMAVS41]

If LeBron gets credit for his 3 titles playing with two other prime all-stars, so does Durant. Let's be consistent.

I'm not going to rehash the Miami vs GS thing...

All I'll say is that both were bitch moves, but KD joining the Warriors was a total different ballgame.

And I don't really even care about that....I'm simply addressing the KD "carrying" narrative.

I'll just keep posting this;

29-1 without KD and with Steph in the last 30 games. Someone please address that.

[NBAGOAT]

If LeBron gets credit for his 3 titles playing with two other prime all-stars, so does Durant. Let's be consistent.

even in their primes. Wade/Bosh alone werent winning a title however, that was obvious. By 14, werent even a playoff team. same for kyrie/love title wise. also, kd is playing with 3, that makes a difference

[tpols]

even in their primes. Wade/Bosh alone werent winning a title however, that was obvious. By 14, werent even a playoff team. same for kyrie/love title wise. also, kd is playing with 3, that makes a difference


Wade already proved he could win a title with a guy worse than prime Chris bosh... An old fat 12ppg shaq. Never ceases to amaze me how people underrate them.

[warriorfan]

even in their primes. Wade/Bosh alone werent winning a title however, that was obvious. By 14, werent even a playoff team. same for kyrie/love title wise. also, kd is playing with 3, that makes a difference

:wtf: Wade already won a title with lesser players than LeBron and Bosh before LeBron joined his team. What are you smoking? :lol

[tpols]

:wtf: Wade already won a title with lesser players than LeBron and Bosh before LeBron joined his team. What are you smoking? :lol


Dudes are on something else...

An old Kobe and pau went back to back..

A small kid from davidson, a second rounder, and klay Thompson formed one of the best dynasties ever..

But prime Dwayne wade and an all NBA PF obviously couldn't win anything.

[warriorfan]

Dudes are on something else...

An old Kobe and pau went back to back..

A small kid from davidson, a second rounder, and klay Thompson formed one of the best dynasties ever..

But prime Dwayne wade and an all NBA PF obviously couldn't win anything.

Totally insane. :lol

[NBAGOAT]

Wade already proved he could win a title with a guy worse than prime Chris bosh... An old fat 12ppg shaq. Never ceases to amaze me how people underrate them.

ii should've said past prime wade, my bad but I'll try and argue my way out of this.

i'll be semantic and say that was peak wade along with 09. Prime wade includes more possible years. is 05 wade or 12 wade with just bosh really enough with crappy role players? I mean wade couldnt even win a title with 2nd in mvp voting shaq if we're using just a single year as an example.

Different league too as playoff matchups can vary, dallas wasnt a particularly strong team(nothing agaisnt wade again he was fantastic but i'm trying argue my way out). Beating Dallas is different from beating SA or OKC. Like are wade and bosh by themselves really beating the 09-10 lakers either? I think ik your answer

Edit: I dont feel bad about arguing this way now. When you call the warriors big 3 "a small kid from davidson, a second rounder, and klay" and a 30 year old kobe old and acting like no one outside of kobe and pau are worth mentioning, you're not arguing in good faith either lol.

[Indian guy]

Kobe fans still desperately trying to draw parallels between LeBron and KD's moves :oldlol:

Except nobody has ever bought it. There's a reason why each of LeBron's 3 rings were universally celebrated as alpha dog rings while everybody laughs at KD's.

And that's because context matters to people. Joining 47 and 33-win teams is nothing like joining a 73-win team with a championship already under its belt.

LeBron's teams shit the bed the moment he's injured or no longer on the team. KD's teams go 28-1 when he's out and win huge playoff games on the road.

Thus one enjoys consensus top 5 status while nobody bothers ranking the other.

[34-24 Footwork]

Kobe


Seek help...

[warriorfan]

Kobe fans still desperately trying to draw parallels between LeBron and KD's moves :oldlol:

Except nobody has ever bought it. There's a reason why each of LeBron's 3 rings were universally celebrated as alpha dog rings while everybody laughs at KD's.

And that's because context matters to people. Joining 47 and 33-win teams is nothing like joining a 73-win team with a championship already under its belt.

LeBron's teams shit the bed the moment he's injured or no longer on the team. KD's teams go 28-1 when he's out and win huge playoff games on the road.

Thus one enjoys consensus top 5 status while nobody bothers ranking the other.

Lebron didnt join a 47 win team or a 33 win team. There were multiple all Stars who joined with him on both of those teams. It wasn

[superduper]

Seek help...

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

These Bran stans are so visibly insecure

[34-24 Footwork]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]Lebron didnt join a 47 win team or a 33 win team. There were multiple all Stars who joined with him on both of those teams. It wasn

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]Lebron didnt join a 47 win team or a 33 win team. There were multiple all Stars who joined with him on both of those teams. It wasn

[warriorfan]

The Warriors lost nothing of note that wasn't replaced by KD. They also added players as well.

Durant replaced the weakest noteworthy link on a team that won 67, a title, then 73, and a few plays away from a title. You can argue little details here and there, but the point is...they were / are elite title contenders without him. They aren't as good without him of course, but they are elite without him.

Lebron and the Heat? Certainly for 11 when he had prime Wade healthy and Bosh healthy...one could draw a comparison...and I'm fine with that, but the level of team around Lebron in 11 doesn't touch what Durant has around him on the Warriors. Lebron's team was stacked no doubt...and no excuse for losing, but it just wasn't the same.

After 11 though? By the time the playoffs hit in 12...Bosh/Wade weren't themselves...and then took an even bigger decline in 13. They just weren't right health wise and what Lebron did getting those two teams to titles was easily more difficult than anything KD has done for the Warriors.

Again, best summed up by...

Both bitch moves, Durant's just happened to be way worse and also has made the NBA way less interesting. Just the truth...no rational person is going to argue Lebron joining the Heat was as bad as Durant joining the Warriors from a competition standpoint.

Sorry, you don

[NBAGOAT]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]Lebron didnt join a 47 win team or a 33 win team. There were multiple all Stars who joined with him on both of those teams. It wasn

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]Sorry, you don

[warriorfan]

Sorry, I remember reality.

I remember all the clowns arguing that the Warriors were going to be "worse" with KD because they "gutted their depth"...

You were probably one of them.

:cheers:

Keep low iqing it up

[NBAGOAT]

10000% this.

The 73-win shit is to disguise the fact that they lost.

KD joined a losing team...not a 73-win team. Not sure how anyone disputes this.

They use the 73-win talking point in an EXTREMELY dishonest way and they STILL bring it up EVERYDAY in the media and the internet.

I still love the "finals MVP off the bench" talking point...although Lebron had a Finals MVP off the bench in Wade.

ok then. KD joined a team, a year removed, without any significant changes, from winning 67 and a championship. You're technically right they're a "losing team" but my description is technically correct too

[Phoenix]

ii should've said past prime wade, my bad but I'll try and argue my way out of this.

i'll be semantic and say that was peak wade along with 09. Prime wade includes more possible years. is 05 wade or 12 wade with just bosh really enough with crappy role players? I mean wade couldnt even win a title with 2nd in mvp voting shaq if we're using just a single year as an example.

Different league too as playoff matchups can vary, dallas wasnt a particularly strong team(nothing agaisnt wade again he was fantastic but i'm trying argue my way out). Beating Dallas is different from beating SA or OKC. Like are wade and bosh by themselves really beating the 09-10 lakers either? I think ik your answer

Edit: I dont feel bad about arguing this way now. When you call the warriors big 3 "a small kid from davidson, a second rounder, and klay" and a 30 year old kobe old and acting like no one outside of kobe and pau are worth mentioning, you're not arguing in good faith either lol.

It should be noted that 05 Wade with MVP runner-up Shaq was up 3-2 on Detroit and in position to at least make the finals before Wade got injured. Without that injury could they have won the whole thing? One of those woulda coulda situations, but just thought it worth mentioning.

[NBAGOAT]

It should be noted that 05 Wade with MVP runner-up Shaq was up 3-2 on Detroit and in position to at least make the finals before Wade got injured. Without that injury could they have won the whole thing? One of those woulda coulda situations, but just thought it worth mentioning.

yea it is, I dont want to disparage wade. They were definitely title contenders(some say they were better in 05 than 06 too til the injury). I'm going completely devil's advocate here and trying use some of their own flawed logic against them.

[ArbitraryWater]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]Lebron didnt join a 47 win team or a 33 win team. There were multiple all Stars who joined with him on both of those teams. It wasn

[tpols]

Sorry, I remember reality.

I remember all the clowns arguing that the Warriors were going to be "worse" with KD because they "gutted their depth"...

You were probably one of them.

:cheers:


this thread actually has you taking an L on that.

We see the warriors true potential is higher without durant than it is with him.

[ArbitraryWater]

this thread actually has you taking an L on that.

We see the warriors true potential is higher without durant than it is with him.

the '17 playoffs would like to refute you and ask for evidence :facepalm

Top 10 teams ever via Ortg

1) 2017 Golden State Warriors: 115.6

[tpols]

the '17 playoffs would like to refute you and ask for evidence :facepalm

Top 10 teams ever via Ortg

1) 2017 Golden State Warriors: 115.6


yea... he fit for one year. Since then its been back to the iso ball roots which have made the dubs look mortal.

Without him the sustained dynasty success is unparalleled. They avalanche teams with their teamwork and everybody is always engaged.

[BigShotBob]

They are better at moving the ball without him but in the playoffs against real teams they absolutely need him. Draymond didn't call him after 2016 for nothing, he admitted that the team needed another reliable option because Curry and Klay can and will get shut down.

Evidence: Game 3 2018 Finals.

What did Curry and Klay score? 23 points combined?

KD scored 43....alone.

Literally put them on his back and carried them to a win on the road.

The sad thing is Curry and Klay can go cold at a moment's notice just as easily as they can get hot.

They don't need KD for teams like the Blazers, the even worse watered down version of the 2018 Rockets, or the Clippers.

But they will absolutely need him in the Finals against the Raptors or the Bucks. No question about that.

[Phoenix]

yea it is, I dont want to disparage wade. They were definitely title contenders(some say they were better in 05 than 06 too til the injury). I'm going completely devil's advocate here and trying use some of their own flawed logic against them.

Wade was a year better in 2006 than 2005, but Shaq was also some degree worse in 2006 compared to 2005. There was some trade off there.....

[DMAVS41]

this thread actually has you taking an L on that.

We see the warriors true potential is higher without durant than it is with him.

No, it isn't.

That is absurd.

Now, you tell me their potential is higher replacing KD with Covington and PJ Tucker or something...I might listen.

Probably still disagree, but it is at least an argument.

But the notion they are just better without him is absurd...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

this thread actually has you taking an L on that.

We see the warriors true potential is higher without durant than it is with him.

I'd wait until the finals to make a bold claim like that.

Even then, its borderline trolling.

The Warriors are funner to watch, share the ball more, and are a bit more consistent defensively. So far, that's really it...

[ArbitraryWater]

yea... he fit for one year. Since then its been back to the iso ball roots which have made the dubs look mortal.

Without him the sustained dynasty success is unparalleled. They avalanche teams with their teamwork and everybody is always engaged.

you just said their true potential is higher.

the 17 potential will not be matched this year or any other, clearly.

[Koresh]

It's hilarious on the other major NBA forum that have been saying this the past couple of years that if they lose KD they wouldn't be contenders or continue winning titles. The Warriors are arguably the greatest team in NBA history and their stars are all in their primes, which is the scariest part about this. No team since the 60s Celtics have reached the finals more than 4 times. They will win more titles in the future, but...













































































































The 2019 champion is coming out of the east:lol

[Shogon]

1 on 1 basketball isn't 5 on 5 basketball. It's not the same thing at all.

Some people will never understand that. Oh well.

[hold this L]

They are better at moving the ball without him but in the playoffs against real teams they absolutely need him. Draymond didn't call him after 2016 for nothing, he admitted that the team needed another reliable option because Curry and Klay can and will get shut down.

Evidence: Game 3 2018 Finals.

What did Curry and Klay score? 23 points combined?

KD scored 43....alone.

Literally put them on his back and carried them to a win on the road.

The sad thing is Curry and Klay can go cold at a moment's notice just as easily as they can get hot.

They don't need KD for teams like the Blazers, the even worse watered down version of the 2018 Rockets, or the Clippers.

But they will absolutely need him in the Finals against the Raptors or the Bucks. No question about that.
If the Bucks disappoint in the finals, the Rockets might still end up being the 2nd best team in the playoffs for the second year in a row.

[BigShotBob]

If the Bucks disappoint in the finals, the Rockets might still end up being the 2nd best team in the playoffs for the second year in a row.

I think that says more about the state of the League than the strength of the Rockets.

At least as it pertains to Golden State.

If you're a Celtics fan then the Raptors, 76ers, Bucks, Rockets, Warriors, and Nuggets are strong teams to you. Maybe even OKC.

But if you're a Warriors fan then it's just the Rockets that you're more concerned about followed by the Raptors and the Bucks.

[hold this L]

I think that says more about the state of the League than the strength of the Rockets.

At least as it pertains to Golden State.

If you're a Celtics fan then the Raptors, 76ers, Bucks, Rockets, Warriors, and Nuggets are strong teams to you. Maybe even OKC.

But if you're a Warriors fan then it's just the Rockets that you're more concerned about followed by the Raptors and the Bucks.
That's what happened last year though.. The Rockets were the only team on the Warriors' level.

[BigShotBob]

That's what happened last year though.. The Rockets were the only team on the Warriors' level.

True, but no teams in the East were.

It's funny how that always works out isn't it. The West took a step back but a beast emerged in the East to challenge them.

I think if the Bucks win then this would be the first time that the Warriors didn't have HCA in the Finals during their recent run.

[hold this L]

True, but no teams in the East were.

It's funny how that always works out isn't it. The West took a step back but a beast emerged in the East to challenge them.

I think if the Bucks win then this would be the first time that the Warriors didn't have HCA in the Finals during their recent run.
Houston last postseason

[Shogon]

Houston last postseason

He said in the Finals.

[Turbo Slayer]

I agree. The Warriors have better ball movement on the court. I watched some videos of the Warriors moving the ball without Durant and with Durant. I gotta say, the ball movement is perfect when KD isn't around. They don't need Durant.:D :D

[4pointshot]

I think if the Bucks win then this would be the first time that the Warriors didn't have HCA in the Finals during their recent run.

Either Toronto or Milwaukee would have HCA in the Finals.

[Shogon]

:D