Remember when Lebron teamed up with the next best player in the league?

[3ball]

2010 Wade was #2 in the four main advanced stats - PER, WS/48, VORP, BPM - so he was the #2 player in the league

So how could **the greatest player of all time** lose with the #2 player (2011)??... Or be an underdog (2012)??... :biggums:

Oh wait.. he ain't the goat - that's how

[Duncan21formvp]

Also had Shaq in 2010 who won league mvp and 3 finals mvp's.

[3ball]

Also had Shaq in 2010 who won league mvp and 3 finals mvp's.
Indeed, Shaq was all-star MVP in 2009, but relegated to 4th option for lebron in 2010

Jamison and Mo were also coming off recent all-star campaigns, while Varejao was all-defense... And a ton of shooting and bench help..

However, players didn't need star casts to make the Finals from the East in that decade - Dwight, Kidd, AI and Lebron all did so.. But ultimately, Lebron left Cleveland in 2010 because he couldn't make the Finals again like he did previously, and ceded easy Finals runs in 09' and 10' to Dwight and an old celtics team

So he only carried a lesser cast to the Finals 1 time (07') when everyone else was doing it - he otherwise needed super-teams from 11-17', and a perennial all-star 2nd option in 18'.. and a very weak conference overall of course (no playoffs in the West)
.

[TheCorporation]

https://i.postimg.cc/nVwH1QcP/Route-19-toto.jpg

[3ball]

https://i.postimg.cc/nVwH1QcP/Route-19-toto.jpg
Other players went 1-9 more often and with higher seeds - MJ lost the least in the playoffs of anyone since the 60's celts

Ultimately - since the goat is the best, people can only criticize things he did, that everyone else did WORSE

For example - 89' MJ falters with a 2-1 lead against Detroit, but Kobe loses a 3-1 lead and lebron had the goat choke in 11'.... Or MJ goes 1-9 with 8 seeds, while others do the same more often and with higher seeds.... Or MJ loses with an all-star twice, but lebron does too and also 3 times with TWO all-stars

Btw, that last one - MJ losing twice with an all-star - that's the least anyone ever lost with an all-star - so MJ is goat because he was the most unbeatable with the minimal help that ALL players need to win

[RRR3]

wahhhhhhhhh :cry: :cry: :cry:
:lol

[Real14]

https://i.postimg.cc/nVwH1QcP/Route-19-toto.jpg
Lebron missed the playoffs his first 2 years and had to get carried by Gibson the last two games in 2007 ECF:lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebron missed the playoffs his first 2 years and had to get carried by Gibson the last two games in 2007 ECF:lol
LeBron got carried the game he dropped 48, ok bruh :lol

[3ball]

:lol
MJ only lost twice with a perennial all-star - that's the least anyone ever lost with a perennial all-star

so MJ is goat because he was the most unbeatable with the minimal help that ALL players need to win.. :confusedshrug: .. :cheers: .. :banana:

[Real14]

LeBron got carried the game he dropped 48, ok bruh :lol
Lestadpadded:lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Lestadpadded:lol
:oldlol: I don't even think he's trolling, he legit doesn't even know the game in question

[3ball]

LeBron got carried the game he dropped 48, ok bruh :lol
Lebron averaged 21 ppg on 41% in the other games of that series

So yes, he was completely carried in that series

Similar to 2008 when he averaged 26 on 35% against the Celts

In both instances (07' ECF and 08' ECSF), the Cavs' goat defense allowed them to win or go 7 games in spite of Lebron's horrific offense... Indeed - COY Mike Brown was a great defensive coach (held the Pistons and Celts to below their RS production)

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebron averaged 21 ppg on 41% in the other games of that series

So yes, he was completely carried in that series

Similar to 2008 when he averaged 26 on 35% against the Celts

In both instances (07' ECF and 08' ECSF), the Cavs' goat defense allowed them to win or go 7 games in spite of Lebron's horrific offense... Indeed - COY Mike Brown was a great defensive coach (held the Pistons and Celts to below their RS production)
That's probably close to what Jordan averaged if you removed his best game in the '96 Finals

[Real14]

:oldlol: I don't even think he's trolling, he legit doesn't even know the game in question
I'm being for real plus the pistons were old and hurt:lol

[3ball]

21 on 41%

That's probably close to what Jordan averaged if you removed his best game in the '96 Finals


Nah - without his best game, he still averaged 25.6 on exactly 40.0%

Btw, lebron has many series that are worse than any series MJ ever played:



07' finals
08' ECSF
11' Finals
13' ECSF
13' Finals
14' ECF
15' ECSF
16' First Rd
16' ECSF


^^^ that's a lot.

[Bankaii]

:oldlol: I don't even think he's trolling, he legit doesn't even know the game in question
One of the greatest performances of all time, whether you hate him or not, and that dumbass has no idea what game you're talking about:roll:

[Real14]

One of the greatest performances of all time, whether you hate him or not, and that dumbass has no idea what game you're talking about:roll:
N.igga please u was in like 2nd, 3rd grade. I remember.

[TheCorporation]

One of the greatest performances of all time, whether you hate him or not, and that dumbass has no idea what game you're talking about:roll:

:roll: :roll:

[Real14]

:roll: :roll:
And u was in the 1st grade.

[Kblaze8855]

So Kobe didn’t exist or we not even considering he was weeks from winning his second ring in a row when the heat came together? He doesn’t even get #2 in the nba because of per? I’d have assumed you thought Kobe was better than Lebron at the time.

Amazing to me how often people switch ways to rank players to fit an argument. Or at least pretend to.

There wasn’t a man alive in 2010 who ranked Bosh over Kobe as per did. But per like most advanced stats only matters when a point needs making.

I hear people who say Kobe>Lebron also say Bosh was the 4th best player in the NBA in 2010 due to PER....

Kobe was 14th in PER, outside the top 20 in win shares and win shares per 48, 13th in VORP, and 19th in box plus minus.

Obviously....we all know none of that matters. He was clearly elite in 2010. Somewhere between 1 and 3. A great many would say 1. Some 3. Not many past that.

So why do we just choose who to count these numbers for? Bosh on a lottery team in the east.....PER makes him elite. Who cares his team won 73 games in 2009 and 2010 combined in a conference we all apparently think is a joke. That doesnt count in this situation though.

I dont care about the advanced numbers at all. Some do. Be nice if those who do cared all the time and not just when they want it to count. Arent these numbers supposed to remove the subjectivity?

[ArbitraryWater]

I do.

But the team was shit and a first round exit two years straight.

Opposed to 73 wins finals two years straight :lol

[3ball]

Kblaze - it doesn't matter if Wade was actually the #3 player instead of #2 - it's splitting hairs and doesn't change the point being made:

It's simply impossible for the greatest player of all time to lose and be an underdog alongside the next best player in the league.. or next-next best player... :confusedshrug:

The #1 and #2 guy in the league, or the #1 and #3 guy is the best talent combination available and shouldn't lose or be underdogs.. :confusedshrug: .. if they are, then something is wrong - obviously, lebron isn't goat

Here's the reality - Lebron's style isn't an effective way to play, which is why he lost to Dwight and had to team-hop to make more Finals

Like, Dwight was making the Finals with Hedo Turkoglu as his main guy - give him Wade/Bosh and he makes it every year...

Lebron simply formed great casts in a conference where players didn't need strong casts to make the Finals (see Dwight, AI, Kidd).. Lebron is literally one of the biggest frauds in sports history and contemporary society.. He fell for his own hype and foolishly went to the West, where he has zero chance to make the Finals ever again - he only made the Finals in the East with super-teams from 11-17', and once with a regular cast when other guys did the same in that decade... How the hell did he think he could make it in the West???.. So he obviously ain't that bright either

[nashwade]

as a Wade fan, I won't go so far to say he was #2 in 2010 (where was the Heat the previous year?)

[Gileraracer]

How can you lose 6 finals with that much help?

Shaq
Ray Allen
Dwyane Wade
Chris Bosh
Kyrie Irving
Kevin Love
Ben Wallace
Jerry Stackhouse
Mike Bibby
Rajon Rondo
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Carlos Boozer
Antawn Jamison
Shawn Marion
Deron Williams
Derrick Rose

[3ball]

as a Wade fan, I won't go so far to say he was #2 in 2010 (where was the Heat the previous year?)
he can EASILY be argued at #2

that's his most likely rank, regardless of anyone's opinion as to whether he's #3 or #4

and the point remains - it's impossible for the greatest player of all time to lose and be an underdog alongside the next best player in the league.. or next-next best player... or next-next-next best player

Lebron/Wade was simply the best talent combination in the league and shouldn't lose or be underdogs.. yet they did, so something was wrong - obviously, lebron isn't goat

[sdot_thadon]

Don't sweat it Op, he was just trying to follow in MJ's footsteps by having more talent than any team he faced in his successful seasons. And get this, he failed because the Heat still faced teams with comparable talent unlike the Bulls dynasty. :applause:

[TheCorporation]

I'm pretty sure the OP just ETHERED himself without realizing it. If PER is the measuring for greatness then LeBron is #1 peak PER and #2 career all-time. Nice :pimp:

[TheCorporation]

Don't sweat it Op, he was just trying to follow in MJ's footsteps by having more talent than any team he faced in his successful seasons. And get this, he failed because the Heat still faced teams with comparable talent unlike the Bulls dynasty. :applause:


ANOTHER
ONE

:dancin

[Bankaii]

N.igga please u was in like 2nd, 3rd grade. I remember.
Please explain how you statpad in a game that went into 2OT and was won by one basket.

Before you make yourself look even dumber, LeBron was the only Cavs player to score in EITHER OT. Just admit you're an idiot.

[Wally450]

Rent Free

Fuming

Edit: Damn, Real14 getting bodied for not knowing ball. What else it new.

[Vino24]

op is the biggest Lebron fan on this board. Multiple threads everyday about LeGoat :applause: :bowdown:

[Manny98]

Jordan got the luxury to play with the best Small Forward of his entire era

Jordans help > LeBrons help it's not even close

They won 55 games without him ffs :roll:

Imagine a LeBron team being that good without him

Bosh and Wade couldn't even sniff the playoffs the year after LeBron left :roll:

[TheCorporation]

Jordan got the luxury to play with the best Small Forward of his entire era

Jordans help > LeBrons help it's not even close

They won 55 games without him ffs :roll:

Imagine a LeBron team being that good without him

Bosh and Wade couldn't even sniff the playoffs the year after LeBron left :roll:

:eek: Ohh boyyyy DAAAMN

:roll:

We stay winning :banana:

[GimmeThat]

essentially, league expansion took place, and owners with below average IQ joined.

This really is about ethering "Boston Celtics, or Lakers winning is good for the league"

[TheCorporation]

op is the biggest Lebron fan on this board. Multiple threads everyday about LeGoat :applause: :bowdown:

His Bron love knows no bounds :bowdown:

[Real14]

Rent Free

Fuming

Edit: Damn, Real14 getting bodied for not knowing ball. What else it new.
I watched that game u bitch ass n.igga:coleman:

[dazzer87]

Lecollusion only 2 rings out of 4.................. FT35 collusion will be 3 for 3.........

LeFailed..........

[3ball]

Jordan got the luxury to play with the best Small Forward of his entire era

Jordans help > LeBrons help it's not even close

They won 55 games without him ffs :roll:

Imagine a LeBron team being that good without him

Bosh and Wade couldn't even sniff the playoffs the year after LeBron left :roll:
MJ built a dynasty

Whereas Lebron destroys teams - look at this year's Lakers - the only difference from the heat and cavs is that Wade/Kyrie didn't make a bunch of Finals first before lebron destroyed the team

lebron just went straight to the destroy stage with these Lakers.. :oldlol:

[Wally450]

I watched that game u bitch ass n.igga:coleman:

If you really did, you wouldn't call what he did statpadding.

But please, keep saying how you'd take Carmelo Anthony over LeBron.

[3ball]

Don't sweat it Op, he was just trying to follow in MJ's footsteps by having more talent than any team he faced in his successful seasons. And get this, he failed because the Heat still faced teams with comparable talent unlike the Bulls dynasty. :applause:
Except no one said that at the time and ur just revising history.. :confusedshrug:

You love to post quotes from books and articles - where's your quotes saying the bulls had better talent than their opponents???

They don't exist because the narrative was that the Bulls weren't stacked with talent - the common narrative was that the 92' Blazers and 93' Suns were overloaded with more talent than the Bulls (this is well-documented)

And here's NBA.com's recollection of the 1991 Finals:



the Bulls were considered big underdogs to the Lakers in the Finals and the vast majority of media "experts" predicted an easy Lakers' victory.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/top-20-moments-1990-91-season.html/


Those are the facts - but carry on with your revisionist history if it makes you feel better.. :applause: .. :cheers:

[Real14]

If you really did, you wouldn't call what he did statpadding.

But please, keep saying how you'd take Carmelo Anthony over LeBron.
It is still, Gibson had a big part in it, dont lie

[Young X]

Advanced stats or not, Kobe was not better than Wade in 2010. Or 2009. Or 2011. Or 2012.

[Bankaii]

It is still, Gibson had a big part in it, dont lie
Boobie had 11 points on 29% shooting and fouled out that game.
And it's cute how you dodged my post.

Just admit your dumb ass has no idea what you're talking about and blindly hate on LeBron.

[TheCorporation]

Boobie had 11 points on 29% shooting and fouled out that game.
And it's cute how you dodged my post.

Just admit your dumb ass has no idea what you're talking about and blindly hate on LeBron.

He's a Knicks fan, what do you expect? :lol

[3ball]

Boobie had 11 points on 29% shooting and fouled out that game.
And it's cute how you dodged my post.

Just admit your dumb ass has no idea what you're talking about and blindly hate on LeBron.
Outside of game 5, Lebron averaged 21 on 41% for the rest of the 07' ECF

so he was carried.... by his team's defense... They held the Pistons to below their normal averages and made it a defensive slugfest

The Cavs did the same thing to the 08' Celtics in ecsf, which is how they took them 7 games despite 26 on 35% from lebron (woat offense)...

Turns out that COY Mike Brown was a great defensive coach

[TheCorporation]

Outside of game 5, Lebron averaged 21 on 41% for the rest of the 07' ECF

so he was carried.... by his team's defense... They held the Pistons to below their normal averages and made it a defensive slugfest

The Cavs did the same thing to the 08' Celtics in ecsf, which is how they took them 7 games despite 26 on 35% from lebron (woat offense)...

Turns out that COY Mike Brown was a great defensive coach

:lol 2008

Post the 2008 Cavs and 2008 Celtics rosters please :lol

I'll wait

[3ball]

:lol 2008

Post the 2008 Cavs and 2008 Celtics rosters please :lol

I'll wait
How did they go 7 games with lebron shooting 35% on 26 ppg?

[TheCorporation]

How did they go 7 games with lebron shooting 35% on 26 ppg?

Post the 2008 Cavs and 2008 Celtics rosters please

I'll wait :lol

[3ball]

Post the 2008 Cavs and 2008 Celtics rosters please

I'll wait :lol
Ur making my point

Mike Brown's defense allowed the cavs to stay close despite the roster being outmatched and lebron playing like aids... :confusedshrug:

[TheCorporation]

Ur making my point

Mike Brown was a great defensive coach, and his defense allowed the cavs to stay close despite the roster being outmatched and lebron playing like aids... :confusedshrug:

Post the 2008 Cavs and 2008 Celtics rosters please*

I'll wait :lol

[3ball]

Post the 2008 Cavs and 2008 Celtics rosters please*

I'll wait :lol
And I'll wait for you to realize what we're talking about

[Real14]

He's a Knicks fan, what do you expect? :lol
What's your team? Bitch made n.igga?:biggums:

[Real14]

Outside of game 5, Lebron averaged 21 on 41% for the rest of the 07' ECF

so he was carried.... by his team's defense... They held the Pistons to below their normal averages and made it a defensive slugfest

The Cavs did the same thing to the 08' Celtics in ecsf, which is how they took them 7 games despite 26 on 35% from lebron (woat offense)...

Turns out that COY Mike Brown was a great defensive coach
Thank u. These haters always using a bullshit agenda.

[Bankaii]

Thank u. These haters always using a bullshit agenda.
That dude is talking about the rest of the series and 2008.
You said LeBron got carried in 2007 ECF Game 5.

Even 3Ball isn't dumb enough to try to argue that. Make your own argument you little bitch. Or admit you were talking you out of your ass.

[TheCorporation]

That dude is talking about the rest of the series and 2008.
You said LeBron got carried in 2007 ECF Game 5.

Even 3Ball isn't dumb enough to try to argue that. Make your own argument you little bitch. Or admit you were talking you out of your ass.

Dont tempt him :lol

Btw, I'm stil waiting on the 2008 Rosters from 3ball

[Real14]

That dude is talking about the rest of the series and 2008.
You said LeBron got carried in 2007 ECF Game 5.

Even 3Ball isn't dumb enough to try to argue that. Make your own argument you little bitch. Or admit you were talking you out of your ass.
Gibson didnt went crazy over the last 2 games in 2007 ECF u dumb bitch?

[Bankaii]

Gibson didnt went crazy over the last 2 games in 2007 ECF u dumb bitch?
In game 5 he had 11 points on 29% and fouled out before the game was even over.

That’s going crazy??:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Real14]

In game 5 he had 11 points on 29% and fouled out before the game was even over.

That’s going crazy??:roll: :roll: :roll:
Well last 3 games, whatever lol.
Even 11 points was a lot for him so there u go.

[Bankaii]

Well last 3 games, whatever lol.
Even 11 points was a lot for him so there u go.
This dude legit didn