How come Jordan never asked to Play with an Established Superstar?

[Big164]

After going 1-9 Why did he not throw in the Towel and leave Chicago altogether? Why risk your future on young guys who will never amount to anything? Why not trade the entire roster for #1 pick David Robinson who everyone knew was going to be a future HOF?

MJ is so dumb, Dude coulda joined Barkley, Dominique, Ewing and won MORE rings instead of beating them and only getting 6:roll:

[FKAri]

He did.

But Jordan went one step too far that first season. He was angry over the Bulls’ slow start and had already gone to Jerry Krause during the Western trip in November to ask that he make some trades.

“I need help,” he told Krause. Krause explained the Bulls had salary cap problems, which Jordan neither understood nor cared to hear about.


Jordan “lobbied extensively during the 1988-89 season for a trade that would bring New Jersey’s Buck Williams to the Bulls. Jordan didn’t particularly care for Horace Grant, Krause’s other pick in the 1987 Draft, never believing Grant would develop into a responsible player, and lobbied hard for Williams.”


After learning that NBA veteran and former North Carolina Tar Heel Walter Davis had been traded to Portland and not the Bulls, Jordan responded before a game against the Nets. “As soon as we get back, I’m calling (Jerry) Reinsdorf. Krause has messed everything up again.

MJ trying to sabotage management:

“I figured I’d try to put the pressure on him to do something about Krause,” Jordan said about his first volley of remarks after the team returned from New Jersey in late January. His eyes were hard and cold as he spoke. “This thing isn’t over. I’m gonna get that guy fired yet. ”

His own fans wanting his ass to be traded:

“Yes – if they trade Michael Jordan for Larry Bird straight up. Then the Bulls would have a team player who could lead them to the championship.”

– Phil Simpson of Chicago, Chicago Sun-Times, November 12, 1987


The Bulls lack teamwork. There are three things that must be done to play winning basketball: Trade all the crybabies who run to the media and say, “Play me more or trade me.” They are selfish. Trade Michael Jordan. It takes five players to win and it can’t be done with one star. There’s too much individualism and not enough teamwork passing to the open man.

– Raymond Otto of Worth; The Chicago Sun-Times, December 11, 1988

There's a LOT more of these btw. In conclusion, it's a shit thread and OP is a relentless phaggit :cheers:

[scuzzy]

BURNED ^^^ :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Gus Hemmingway]

He did.





MJ trying to sabatoage management:


His own fans wanting his ass to be traded:




There's a LOT more of these btw. In conclusion, it's a shit thread and OP is a relentless phaggit :cheers:
:roll: :roll:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Because he developed and molded Pippen by hand.

[Smoke117]

Because he developed and molded Pippen by hand.

The sad thing is you actually believe this. I guess Scottie had no talent or skill and Jordan just, as you say, "molded" him into a top 30 player of all time? Then why didn't he do any of that on the Wizards? Why aren't we talking about Rip Hamilton, Kwame Brown, and Jerry Stackhouse? Why hasn't he made Kemba Walker the 2nd greatest guard of all time? You Jordan stans take the cake for full of shitness.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The sad thing is you actually believe this. I guess Scottie had no talent or skill and Jordan just, as you say, "molded" him into a top 30 player of all time? Then why didn't he do any of that on the Wizards? Why aren't we talking about Rip Hamilton, Kwame Brown, and Jerry Stackhouse? Why hasn't he made Kemba Walker the 2nd greatest guard of all time? You Jordan stans take the cake for full of shitness.


“He was very competitive, so he went at me and that helped me learn,” said Pippen. “You continue to compete against the very best every day, and you will get better, or you’ll be embarrassed."

Jordan did mold him. Single-handedly? Nah. But he did make Pippen better, for sure.

Why deny that?

And more importantly lash out like its some hot take? :oldlol:

[LAmbruh]

He did.





MJ trying to sabotage management:


His own fans wanting his ass to be traded:




There's a LOT more of these btw. In conclusion, it's a shit thread and OP is a relentless phaggit :cheers:
ouch


MJ was begging for more halp continually :oldlol:


first reply slays are the best

[Smoke117]

Jordan did mold him. Single-handedly? Nah. But he did make Pippen better, for sure.

Why deny that?

And more importantly lash out like its some hot take? :oldlol:

You could literally say that about any young player who played with a better player. Nobody "molds" anybody. It takes hard work, talent, and skill to get to the level Pippen got. Stop being a shitty poster when you could be a decent one. Try and rise above your inner ape.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan did mold him. Single-handedly? Nah. But he did make Pippen better, for sure.

Why deny that?

And more importantly lash out like its some hot take? :oldlol:
Lol Pippen had innate physical tools and talent. I worded it like that to get Smokee117 on an angry drunk rampage white knighting for the player he likes to stan so much.

[Smoke117]

Lol Pippen had innate physical tools and talent. I worded it like that to get Smokee117 on an angry drunk rampage white knighting for the player he likes to stan so much.

Well, that;s one for you Wild Bill! *rolls eyes* You aren't clever enough to ever upset me, mate. I'm just mildly amused and annoyed by you. You're like a fly that gets in the house. Annoying, but not that important.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You could literally say that about any young player who played with a better player. Nobody "molds" anybody. It takes hard work, talent, and skill to get to the level Pippen got. Stop being a shitty poster when you could be a decent one. Try and rise above your inner ape.

He made Pippen better.

Bottom line.

Say it out loud if you have to. Only this time without digging for that eternal wedgie you have.

[Smoke117]

He made Pippen better.

Bottom line.

Say it out loud if you have to. Only this time without digging for that eternal wedgie you have.

And playing with Pippen made Jordan better. That's how it works when you play with great players.

[TheCorporation]

He did.





MJ trying to sabotage management:


His own fans wanting his ass to be traded:




There's a LOT more of these btw. In conclusion, it's a shit thread and OP is a relentless phaggit :cheers:

:applause:

LIVE look in at OP right now:

https://i.imgur.com/VPXJI79.gif

[SamuraiSWISH]

Pippen and coaches have admitted MJ molded Pippen into the player he eventually became. His “little brother” if you will. An attacking defensive player which was his calling card.

[LAmbruh]

And playing with Pippen made Jordan better. That's how it works when you play with great players.
Yup

Pippen turned Grant and BJ into all-stars

and turned MJ into a 1-9 blunder into a Finals champion

Pippen did far more for MJ than MJ did for Pippen

[And1AllDay]

He did.





MJ trying to sabotage management:


His own fans wanting his ass to be traded:




There's a LOT more of these btw. In conclusion, it's a shit thread and OP is a relentless phaggit :cheers:


FKari's posts comin thru like

https://media.giphy.com/media/hL8c1cmqhKHLi/giphy.gif

[And1AllDay]

Yup

Pippen turned Grant and BJ into all-stars

and turned MJ into a 1-9 blunder into a Finals champion

Pippen did far more for MJ than MJ did for Pippen

100 my G

Jordan would still be fumbling around in the 1st round looking for a second playoff win in 11 tries :oldlol:

Madonna knows wassup

[And1AllDay]

:applause:

LIVE look in at OP right now:

https://i.imgur.com/VPXJI79.gif

:roll: :roll:

[Big164]

Why did he win Three straight without one though?


I didnt know that was possible.

[And1AllDay]

Why did he win Three straight without one though?


I didnt know that was possible.

You kinda already got destroyed in this one bud so better luck next time...

[3ball]

The sad thing is you actually believe this. I guess Scottie had no talent or skill and Jordan just, as you say, "molded" him into a top 30 player of all time? Then why didn't he do any of that on the Wizards? Why aren't we talking about Rip Hamilton, Kwame Brown, and Jerry Stackhouse? Why hasn't he made Kemba Walker the 2nd greatest guard of all time? You Jordan stans take the cake for full of shitness.
A previous poster just posted a few quotes that claim MJ tried to play a little GM

but there's even MORE quotes that MJ built pippen, and pippen wouldn't be as good without him.. quotes from Scottie himself, Horace, Phil, Krause - all clearly stating that MJ molded pippen.. this reality is more clear-cut and common knowledge, with far more documentation than a few unsubstantiated quotes from Sam Smith's book about MJ GM'ing.. the quotes about MJ molding pippen are on tape

So keep deluding yourself about the game; everything that happens in the NBA must shock you, given your apparent misperceptions about the game

And how do we know that MJ didn't help Hamilton, who first started playing well next to MJ?.. but the reality is that MJ was no longer the best when he was a wizard, so you can't expect him to elevate teams like he used to - AND YET HE STILL DID - he led the wizards to 18 more wins and almost made playoffs - that's far better than Lebron's debacle this year

[LAmbruh]

You kinda already got destroyed in this one bud so better luck next time...
:roll: :roll:

[And1AllDay]

A previous poster just posted a few quotes that claim MJ tried to play a little GM

but there's even MORE quotes that MJ built pippen, and pippen wouldn't be as good without him.. quotes from Scottie himself, Horace, Phil, Krause - all clearly stating that MJ molded pippen.. this reality is more clear-cut and common knowledge, with far more documentation than a few unsubstantiated quotes from Sam Smith's book about MJ GM'ing.. the quotes about MJ molding pippen are on tape

So keep deluding yourself about the game; everything that happens in the NBA must shock you, given your apparent misperceptions about the game

And how do we know that MJ didn't help Hamilton, who first started playing well next to MJ?.. but the reality is that MJ was no longer the god of basketball when he was a wizard, so you can't expect him to elevate teams like he used to - AND YET HE STILL DID - he led the wizards to 18 more wins and almost made playoffs - that's far better than Lebron's debacle this year

First off, how did you manage to bring up LeBron? :oldlol:
And the #2, we all know Pippen molded a timid 1 for 10 Jordan into something special. Im sure Mike helped Pip with stuff too but MJ was looking like another TMac 1st round prisoner before Pip came along.

[Nikola_]

He did.





MJ trying to sabotage management:


His own fans wanting his ass to be traded:




There's a LOT more of these btw. In conclusion, it's a shit thread and OP is a relentless phaggit :cheers:

I missed the part where MJay wants to play with established superstar

[And1AllDay]

Yup

Pippen turned Grant and BJ into all-stars

and turned MJ into a 1-9 blunder into a Finals champion

Pippen did far more for MJ than MJ did for Pippen

It cant be stressed enough that Mike was a career LOSER before Scottie. Its not a troll its not biased its not made up its a fact that will stay forever

Mike needed Pippen
Pippen didnt need Mike

[And1AllDay]

I missed the part where MJay wants to play with established superstar

Well youd hafta know how to read in order to not "miss the part"

So...Do you know how to read words?

[FKAri]

I missed the part where MJay wants to play with established superstar
You might not remember but back then there was this thing called restricted free agency. Superstars could not move around like they can today unless their TEAM wanted them moved. So getting disgruntled all-stars who were already ready to be dealt from their teams were his best bet.
And as we all know, MJ ****ing LOVES betting. :cheers:

[3ball]

You might not remember but back then there was this thing called restricted free agency. Superstars could not move around like they can today unless their TEAM wanted them moved. So getting disgruntled all-stars who were already ready to be dealt from their teams were his best bet.
And as we all know, MJ ****ing LOVES betting. :cheers:
MJ didn't team-hop

MJ didn't bring in veteran stars

So MJ didn't do what lebron has done

MJ won organically; lebron won artificially, without the teammate and team development stages that MJ had to conquer

MJ was a conquerer; lebron a quitter and team-upperer

[FKAri]

MJ didn't team-hop

MJ didn't bring in veteran stars

So MJ didn't do what lebron has done

MJ won organically; lebron won artificially, without the teammate and team development stages that MJ had to conquer

MJ was a conquerer; lebron a quitter and team-upperer
MJ was bi-curious. I'm just not a fan of such phaggitry. As for on the basketball court? Product of Stern and Nike. Nothing more :cheers:

[sportjames23]

MJ didn't team-hop

MJ didn't bring in veteran stars

So MJ didn't do what lebron has done

MJ won organically; lebron won artificially, without the teammate and team development stages that MJ had to conquer

MJ was a conquerer; lebron a quitter and team-upperer

https://i.ibb.co/rGNhsyn/73-F59-D20-F8-E4-406-E-B751-7-D088-E67-AAA3.gif

[TheCorporation]

dumb gif vs 6'2 guards

https://i.postimg.cc/wTqLqW76/SportJamesOwned.png

[3ball]

https://i.postimg.cc/wTqLqW76/SportJamesOwned.png
Lol you always post this when you've been defeated in the argument.. :oldlol: .. this is your last resort.

Everyone in hindsight realizes that the pre-durant Warriors weren't that great and curry/klay weren't that formidable - we all witnessed Lebron's 2nd option destroy their 1st option and prove superior on the championship level (Cavs were actually more talented)

Durant's arrival made this clear (beaten without durant; record sweep victory WITH durant)
.

[egokiller]

Imagine a life where you consider molding Pippen into a formidable teammate the equivalent of leaving your team to join another superstar. Only on ISH.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Imagine a life where you consider molding Pippen into a formidable teammate the equivalent of leaving your team to join another superstar. Only on ISH.

:roll: :roll: :roll:
:applause: :lol

[Big164]

I missed the part where MJay wants to play with established superstar

In none of those quotes did MJ try to pair with another SUPERstar.

Buck Williams is a far cry from Finals MVP Wade.

[PickernRoller]

Imagine a life where you consider molding Pippen into a formidable teammate the equivalent of leaving your team to join another superstar. Only on ISH.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[TheCorporation]

Imagine a life where you consider molding Pippen into a formidable teammate the equivalent of leaving your team to join another superstar. Only on ISH.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Yeah, except no one imaigined that but you Mr. inthide hoopth :lol

[Elosha]

First off, how did you manage to bring up LeBron? :oldlol:
And the #2, we all know Pippen molded a timid 1 for 10 Jordan into something special. Im sure Mike helped Pip with stuff too but MJ was looking like another TMac 1st round prisoner before Pip came along.

Why do you guys keep raising these points about Pippen "rescuing" Jordan from the first round, when it's so easy to disprove? Do you really think if you just repeat BS like a parrot it magically becomes true? That's not how reality works. :facepalm :rolleyes:

Pippen wasn't even a blip on anyone's radar as a coming superstar in 1988, when Jordan almost singlehandedly led the Bulls into the Easterns Semis in 1987 and into the ECSF in 89 and 90. Jordan's first playoff series win was in 1988 against Cleveland. He averaged 45, 5, and 5, 3 steals and 1.6 blocks in the five game series. Pippen averaged 10.6 ppg and 5 rebounds. But yes, it was Pippen who "led" Jordan into the second round. :rolleyes: Here are the actual stats, which no stupid trolling can refute.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1988-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-cavaliers-vs-bulls.html

Then Pippen averaged a whole 9.4 ppg when the Bulls lost to Piston in the next round. Jordan had a relatively poor (by his standards) series averaging 27.5 ppg, as the Pistons began implementing their strategy of swarming and hitting Jordan repeatedly and ignoring the rest of the Bulls, who they regarded as inferior talents and not mentally strong.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1988-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-bulls-vs-pistons.html

In the next year, 1988-89 season, Jordan averaged 40, 6 and 8 on 52% shooting in the first round and hit The Shot, winning the entire series, against heavily favored Cavs. Pippen averaged 15, 9 and 4 on 39% shooting. But yes, it was Pippen who carried Jordan and taught him how to win. :rolleyes:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1989-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-cavaliers.html

In the next round of 1989, the Bulls beat the favored Knicks, with Jordan averaging 36, 8 and 10 on 55% shooting. Pippen averaged 15, 7 and 4 on 58% shooting. Do you think people were claiming Pippen was the reason Jordan could finally get past the second round? If so you're an idiot.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1989-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-bulls-vs-knicks.html

None of this is to knock Pippen who was slowly but steadily developing into an exceptional player over these formative years But there's only one primary reason why Jordan advanced and started winning big time in the playoffs and that was his own transcendent ability. Jordan still needed to learn more about teamwork and maximizing his leadership abilities. But he - no one else - was the catalyst for the Bulls' substantial playoff success in 1988, 89, and 90.

[sdot_thadon]

For you guys trying to debunk the quotes posted regarding Buck Williams, at the time Buck:
-Had won rookie of the year
-Had been a 3 time allstar
-Led the league in offensive rebounds once while being top 5 in rebounding period every year up to that point.
-Made an all-nba 2nd team
-Made 2 all defense teams (1st and 2nd)
-finished top 10 in mvp voting.

This was a guy Mj begged management for.

[TheCorporation]

For you guys trying to debunk the quotes posted regarding Buck Williams, at the time Buck:
-Had won rookie of the year
-Had been a 3 time allstar
-Led the league in offensive rebounds once while being top 5 in rebounding period every year up to that point.
-Made an all-nba 2nd team
-Made 2 all defense teams (1st and 2nd)
-finished top 10 in mvp voting.

This was a guy Mj begged management for.

MJ already had Orlando Woolridge, George Gervin (which no one ever mentions) and a rookie Charles Oakley for 2 years.

30-52 with MJ, Gervin, Wooldridge, and Oakley

Jesus :eek:

[Lebron23]

He did.





MJ trying to sabotage management:


His own fans wanting his ass to be traded:




There's a LOT more of these btw. In conclusion, it's a shit thread and OP is a relentless phaggit :cheers:

Thanks for posting it.

[Roundball_Rock]

For you guys trying to debunk the quotes posted regarding Buck Williams, at the time Buck:
-Had won rookie of the year
-Had been a 3 time allstar
-Led the league in offensive rebounds once while being top 5 in rebounding period every year up to that point.
-Made an all-nba 2nd team
-Made 2 all defense teams (1st and 2nd)
-finished top 10 in mvp voting.

This was a guy Mj begged management for.

Not only that, MJ fought against trading Pippen--under the threat of retiring if that happened. When Pippen finally left, MJ actually did retire. It is a myth he didn't want any help. If he didn't, he had a perfect opportunity to win without a superstar as the reigning MVP in 99', no?

[ZenMaster7210]

https://i.ibb.co/rGNhsyn/73-F59-D20-F8-E4-406-E-B751-7-D088-E67-AAA3.gif

:applause:

[E_Stamkos]

MJ already had Orlando Woolridge, George Gervin (which no one ever mentions) and a rookie Charles Oakley for 2 years.

30-52 with MJ, Gervin, Wooldridge, and Oakley

Jesus :eek:

Oh you mean the near decrepit Gervin who on his last leg was quoted after the season saying this

"I didn't belong there. I should have never went. I knew it. They got a shell of me down there"

Wasn't that the year MJ broke his foot as well?

Foh

[Roundball_Rock]

Gervin was past his prime but still an effective player. He was averaging 18 PPG when MJ was out, a big reason the Bulls had the 8th ranked offense that year despite MJ playing only 17 games and 25 MPG. If that had a schmo replacing MJ they wouldn't have had that level of offensive success with "just" Woolridge, especially since Daintley got hurt and played only 35 games.

In other words, they were down their #1 and #3 options from 85' and still had the 8th best offense (the team sucked but that was due to having a poor defense). Gervin was an important reason why.

[light]

Because Pippen and Grant were drafted in 1987. Both top 5 pick level talents.

[Shooter]

A previous poster just posted a few quotes that claim MJ tried to play a little GM

but there's even MORE quotes that MJ built pippen, and pippen wouldn't be as good without him.. quotes from Scottie himself, Horace, Phil, Krause - all clearly stating that MJ molded pippen.. this reality is more clear-cut and common knowledge, with far more documentation than a few unsubstantiated quotes from Sam Smith's book about MJ GM'ing.. the quotes about MJ molding pippen are on tape

So keep deluding yourself about the game; everything that happens in the NBA must shock you, given your apparent misperceptions about the game

And how do we know that MJ didn't help Hamilton, who first started playing well next to MJ?.. but the reality is that MJ was no longer the best when he was a wizard, so you can't expect him to elevate teams like he used to - AND YET HE STILL DID - he led the wizards to 18 more wins and almost made playoffs - that's far better than Lebron's debacle this year

This guy is so distraught. We have a thread discussing MJ and he has to chime in with Lebron. Just admit he is Co-Goat already sheesh. Everyone has it as MJ LBJ Kareem but you want to spin it otherwise.

[Round Mound]

Not only that, MJ fought against trading Pippen--under the threat of retiring if that happened. When Pippen finally left, MJ actually did retire. It is a myth he didn't want any help. If he didn't, he had a perfect opportunity to win without a superstar as the reigning MVP in 99', no?

He could have played with another all star etc but he chose to play ONLY with Pippen. The only other unselfish superstar who would sacrifice stats and accolades for the benefit of the team to win. MJ made Pippen tougher but he certainly did not make Pippen the best passer, creator and playmaker at the SF spot in the 90's. Neither did he make him one of the best coast to coast, open court finisher and dunker etc Defensively they made each other great. MJ had the best 2nd option in the league in the 90's. Fact!

[Roundball_Rock]

He could have played with another all star etc but he chose to play ONLY with Pippen. The only other unselfish superstar who would sacrifice stats and accolades for the benefit of the team to win. MJ made Pippen tougher but he certainly did not make Pippen the best passer, creator and playmaker at the SF spot in the 90's. Neither did he make him one of the best coast to coast, open court finisher and dunker etc Defensively they made each other great. MJ had the best 2nd option in the league in the 90's. Fact!

Amen. :cheers:

[Axe]

He could have played with another all star etc but he chose to play ONLY with Pippen. The only other unselfish superstar who would sacrifice stats and accolades for the benefit of the team to win. MJ made Pippen tougher but he certainly did not make Pippen the best passer, creator and playmaker at the SF spot in the 90's. Neither did he make him one of the best coast to coast, open court finisher and dunker etc Defensively they made each other great. MJ had the best 2nd option in the league in the 90's. Fact!
Surely, pippen is very valuable to the bulls dynasty. And also one of the very few players from the said team who's also part of the two three-peats. But jerry krause was a jerk for not giving him what he truly deserves; a higher pay.