Very surprised Mavs got Porzingis that cheap

[JohnnySic]

Damn. That

[coin24]

They must really want DSJ..

[lilteapot]

what dont you guys get?

We are in REBUILD mode. We dont need good players now. We're holding out for something better while we tank for a high pick.

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=JohnnySic]Damn. That

[Duderonomy]

[QUOTE=JohnnySic]Damn. That

[AirTupac]

Not surprised OP is completely wrong. Knicks killed it with that move....

Thinking Porzingis > AD is the same reason why Ainge the retard signed Hayward to a max.

[PeroAntic]

Porzingis is a talented player, but he is a major headache with his preference to play at the 4. Hes too slow to guard small ball PFs on the perimeter. He should be playing center, but hes too light and of underdeveloped frame to battle with bigs all game. If he was willing to play at the 5 and Melo at the 4 instead of them prefering the 4 and 3 respectively, the Knicks superteam experiment might have worked.

[raprap]

They got DSJ and the equivalent of 4 first round picks (one being unprotected)

They got off 30 million of bad salary for next year and multiple years of Hardaway. If they wanted to just dump Lee / Tim...it would have cost 2 first rounders.

This was a good move for the Knicks.

The Mavs? It could be great, but it could be a disaster now that we know they gave up 2 first rounders as well as taking on multiple years of money.
Hey man what do you think about Porzingis planning on signing the QO?

[Xiao Yao You]

Porzingis is a talented player, but he is a major headache with his preference to play at the 4. Hes too slow to guard small ball PFs on the perimeter. He should be playing center, but hes too light and of underdeveloped frame to battle with bigs all game. If he was willing to play at the 5 and Melo at the 4 instead of them prefering the 4 and 3 respectively, the Knicks superteam experiment might have worked.

You've failed already when you put Carmelo and superteam in the same sentence

[aj1987]

Why is everyone so high on Porzingis? He's injury prone, not very efficient, not an elite rebounder, not a good passer, mediocre defender, and at best an above average scorer.

[Rico2016]

I was too until someone mentioned he is still coming off an injury and taller dudes don't always bounce back as quickly.

[DMAVS41]

Hey man what do you think about Porzingis planning on signing the QO?

I'll believe it when I see it.

I just can't imagine he'd give up all that money when he'll be on the same team with Luka in a pretty good market.

Like...what does he want if Dallas, Cuban, Dirk, and Luka isn't good enough?

He's going to risk like 120 million for the chance to leave one of the best young players the league?

I don't buy it, but we'll find out soon.

[Akrazotile]

Porzingis is a talented player, but he is a major headache with his preference to play at the 4. Hes too slow to guard small ball PFs on the perimeter. He should be playing center, but hes too light and of underdeveloped frame to battle with bigs all game. If he was willing to play at the 5 and Melo at the 4 instead of them prefering the 4 and 3 respectively, the Knicks superteam experiment might have worked.


Carmelo and Porzingis were a superteam....?



:biggums:

[Derka]

Why is everyone so high on Porzingis? He's injury prone, not very efficient, not an elite rebounder, not a good passer, mediocre defender, and at best an above average scorer.
Agreed.

[Hey Yo]

They got DSJ and the equivalent of 4 first round picks (one being unprotected)

They got off 30 million of bad salary for next year and multiple years of Hardaway. If they wanted to just dump Lee / Tim...it would have cost 2 first rounders.

This was a good move for the Knicks.

The Mavs? It could be great, but it could be a disaster now that we know they gave up 2 first rounders as well as taking on multiple years of money.
Yeah..... he hasn;t even played a minute yet since the ACL injury. Neither team has no way of telling if he'll bounce back strong or not. That's why I see it as both teams taking a gamble. Knicks thinking he'll possibly never return to form or be more injury prone and Dallas hoping for just the opposite.

[ImKobe]

I was too until someone mentioned he is still coming off an injury and taller dudes don't always bounce back as quickly.

Wasn't he sprinting already in December?

As far as the deal goes... Mavs got a ****ing steal. He's as close to a Dirk 2.0 as you can get right now and fits that situation. It's like he was meant to be in Dallas.

[Hey Yo]

Wasn't he sprinting already in December?

As far as the deal goes... Mavs got a ****ing steal. He's as close to a Dirk 2.0 as you can get right now and fits that situation. It's like he was meant to be in Dallas.
:oldlol: ...... no

Maybe he should, you know.... make it to the posteason and win some games first, before making comparisons.

[ImKobe]

:oldlol: ...... no

Maybe he should, you know.... make it to the posteason and win some games first, before making comparisons.

He played in one of the most toxic situations in the NBA and had them near .500 his first year as the #1 option :lol His 3rd year numbers are similar to Dirk's as well. There's a difference between being coached by Fisher/Hornacek & being coached by Don Nelson with Nash running point.

[AirTupac]

He played in one of the most toxic situations in the NBA and had them near .500 his first year as the #1 option :lol His 3rd year numbers are similar to Dirk's as well. There's a difference between being coached by Fisher/Hornacek & being coached by Don Nelson with Nash running point.


Dont disrespect Dirk like that.... :rolleyes:

[ImKobe]

Dont disrespect Dirk like that.... :rolleyes:

Dirk's a ****ing legend, but I'm just comparing them at age 22-23. He's going to be mentored by that guy & coached by someone who's worked with a similar player for years. It's like the ideal situation for him.

[DMAVS41]

Yeah..... he hasn;t even played a minute yet since the ACL injury. Neither team has no way of telling if he'll bounce back strong or not. That's why I see it as both teams taking a gamble. Knicks thinking he'll possibly never return to form or be more injury prone and Dallas hoping for just the opposite.

Right.

But for the Knicks I don't think it can really be a disaster because they cleared their books, got a solid young talent in DSJ, and got two extra first round picks.

Frank / DSJ / Knox / Robinson with likely a top 3 pick this year, two extra first rounders over the next 3 years....and loads of cap space...

I mean, Kristaps would have to play at a higher level than he reached on the Knicks for that to be even close to a disaster for the Knicks.

Conversely, if the Mavs pay Kristaps and he's just hurt for the next 4 years or something...or never gets back to his level. We just wasted 4 years plus 2 draft assets...and that would be a disaster.

So the floor on the Knicks side of it is much higher....and, honestly, the ceiling is higher as well because of the cap they opened up...could potentially be used to sign two players clearly better than Kristaps.

We'll see. I'm glad the Mavericks made a move, but just wish it wasn't two first round picks and both Courtney and Tim...while also keeping Harrison.

Still hoping we trade Barnes.

[Hey Yo]

He played in one of the most toxic situations in the NBA and had them near .500 his first year as the #1 option :lol His 3rd year numbers are similar to Dirk's as well. There's a difference between being coached by Fisher/Hornacek & being coached by Don Nelson with Nash running point.
As close to Dirk 2.0 right now, doesn't = their 3rd year numbers are similar

:facepalm

[ImKobe]

As close to Dirk 2.0 right now, doesn't = their 3rd year numbers are similar

:facepalm

I'm talking about their shooting #s... Zinger actually shot better from 3 and he was in a shithole compared to what Dirk had around him. Their numbers being similar also sort of validates my point.

Why can't I compare two 7-footers who love to shoot mid-range jumpers & 3s? Are they not similar players in style?

[FireDavidKahn]

what dont you guys get?

We are in REBUILD mode. We dont need good players now. We're holding out for something better while we tank for a high pick.
Kristaps is a 23 year old potential star. That's the kind of player you build around.

[Hey Yo]

I'm talking about their shooting #s... Zinger actually shot better from 3 and he was in a shithole compared to what Dirk had around him. Their numbers being similar also sort of validates my point.

Why can't I compare two 7-footers who love to shoot mid-range jumpers & 3s? Are they not similar players in style?
2.0 means exactly the same. No differences whatsoever. Hard to differentiate.

KP is not Dirk 2.0

[tontoz]

:lol @ a max player signing the QO. Has that ever happened before?Nothing comes to mind.

[DMAVS41]

:lol @ a max player signing the QO. Has that ever happened before?Nothing comes to mind.

Don't think so.

I can't imagine he'd be dumb enough to do that, but we'll see.

[FireDavidKahn]

:lol @ a max player signing the QO. Has that ever happened before?Nothing comes to mind.
Ben Gordon is the closest that I can think of.

[tontoz]

Ben Gordon is the closest that I can think of.


I remember that but he wasn't a max player. Chicago had a reasonable offer for him on the table for a long time but he was holding out for more, then they pulled it in.... Sept? Seemed like a long time.

[Crown&Coke]

My initial reaction was wtf NY

But then you hear how KP wanted out, wasn't going to sign an extension. If he signed the QO, NYK can't deal him without his permission, hamstringing the team even more.

So the Knicks did something that was extremely balsy, they moved him for a guy they could have drafted (if they really wanted him that bad) and used that asset to clear 2 contracts.

Wise move if they end up w a game changing player or two in the summer

And we will say "Knicks gonna Knicks" if they end up with swinging and missing, whether warranted or not.

It would be interesting if they shopped him, how many teams had the requisite expiring contracts and would have offered more?

[FireDavidKahn]

I remember that but he wasn't a max player. Chicago had a reasonable offer for him on the table for a long time but he was holding out for more, then they pulled it in.... Sept? Seemed like a long time.
Ya, that's why I said the closest I can think of. He left so much money on the table.

[DMAVS41]

My initial reaction was wtf NY

But then you hear how KP wanted out, wasn't going to sign an extension. If he signed the QO, NYK can't deal him without his permission, hamstringing the team even more.

So the Knicks did something that was extremely balsy, they moved him for a guy they could have drafted (if they really wanted him that bad) and used that asset to clear 2 contracts.

Wise move if they end up w a game changing player or two in the summer

And we will say "Knicks gonna Knicks" if they end up with swinging and missing, whether warranted or not.

It would be interesting if they shopped him, how many teams had the requisite expiring contracts and would have offered more?

The only thing the Knicks have to avoid this summer is giving out bad contracts to non stars.

Even if they miss out...as long as they don't commit long-term money to non stars...they'll be in a good spot.

Don't forget that they also got 2 first rounders (one of them unprotected)

DSJ / Frank / Knox / Robinson / Likely top 3 pick...with extra first rounders and their own picks and no bad contracts...

That is a great situation for them...even if they miss out on free agency. They have all their own picks so they'll get another good young player next season...and will still have loads of cap as well (assuming they don't screw up) and even better trade assets.

Knicks are in a really good spot right now in my opinion...and could turn into amazing if they get Zion and a couple stars.

[ImKobe]

2.0 means exactly the same. No differences whatsoever. Hard to differentiate.

KP is not Dirk 2.0


I didin't say exactly 2.0, but he's the closest thing to Dirk 2.0 that you can find in the current NBA. They're both 7-ft Euros that love to shoot the basketball and who had similar production in the 3rd year of their careers, where was I wrong in saying that? I guess you could argue Markkanen, but he's not a good mid-range shooter.

Obviously they're not 100% alike, but they have a lot in common. It's probably one of the main reasons why the Mavs would give up two first rounders for him.

[FKAri]

My initial reaction was wtf NY

But then you hear how KP wanted out, wasn't going to sign an extension. If he signed the QO, NYK can't deal him without his permission, hamstringing the team even more.

So the Knicks did something that was extremely balsy, they moved him for a guy they could have drafted (if they really wanted him that bad) and used that asset to clear 2 contracts.

Wise move if they end up w a game changing player or two in the summer

And we will say "Knicks gonna Knicks" if they end up with swinging and missing, whether warranted or not.

It would be interesting if they shopped him, how many teams had the requisite expiring contracts and would have offered more?
Why would they even want a guy like Kawhi or KD? Knicks are set up for a full rebuild now. Why would those guys want to come to a full rebuilding team and why would a rebuilding team even want them? KD will be 31 next year. The timeline doesn't make sense.

[DMAVS41]

Why would they even want a guy like Kawhi or KD? Knicks are set up for a full rebuild now. Why would those guys want to come to a full rebuilding team and why would a rebuilding team even want them? KD will be 31 next year. The timeline doesn't make sense.

Not saying it will happen, but the plan would be to sign 2 max level players...and then use their pick and assets to go get a 3rd star...

I mean...play it out. KD / Kyrie / 3rd star / with some decent young players.

I don't know...two legit superstars with Zion or another all-star level player on a team with the assets they just got from the Mavs is pretty tempting...

And in the East...they'd be favored to make the finals.

If they won the lottery and the Pels refuse to move Davis. The Knicks would have the best chance to land Davis.

So, in some crazy world...it could be Kyrie / KD / Davis

[FKAri]

Not saying it will happen, but the plan would be to sign 2 max level players...and then use their pick and assets to go get a 3rd star...

I mean...play it out. KD / Kyrie / 3rd star / with some decent young players.

I don't know...two legit superstars with Zion or another all-star level player on a team with the assets they just got from the Mavs is pretty tempting...

And in the East...they'd be favored to make the finals.
The whole deal being good or bad ultimately rests on KP's health and who NYK can get in free agency. All I know is this deal will look lopsided one way or the other when looked back at after 5 or so years.

[DMAVS41]

The whole deal being good or bad ultimately rests on KP's health and who NYK can get in free agency. All I know is this deal will look lopsided one way or the other when looked back at after 5 or so years.

I think that is true for the Mavericks, but I don't view the Knicks deal quite the same.

I agree with you if we essentially connect free agency to this deal, but the Knicks making a dumb decision in free agency, to me, is pretty removed from this deal.

Because the Knicks can choose to be patient. They don't have to sign players to deals this year. They can test free agency...miss out on the guys they want...sign some 1 year deals...develop their young players and do it all over again next summer with a better team with an upcoming high draft pick.

For the Mavs, yea...I agree...KP's health / play determines this.

[tontoz]

Ya, that's why I said the closest I can think of. He left so much money on the table.


No doubt. If I remember right he was surprised they pulled the deal which was for something like $50-60 million.

I think there is absolutely zero chance that Z takes the QO, especially given his injury. If he plays for the QO and it turns out he isn't the same player after the surgery.....

[Crown&Coke]

The only thing the Knicks have to avoid this summer is giving out bad contracts to non stars.

Even if they miss out...as long as they don't commit long-term money to non stars...they'll be in a good spot.

.


They have some patient management now. But it still all depends on ownership, who hasn't been the most patient dude around. It will be interesting for sure. I would like to see a good Knicks team battling a good Brooklyn team in the coming years

[Crown&Coke]

Why would they even want a guy like Kawhi or KD? Knicks are set up for a full rebuild now. Why would those guys want to come to a full rebuilding team and why would a rebuilding team even want them? KD will be 31 next year. The timeline doesn't make sense.

I hear you, but if you can get a prime time guy, you roll the dice and get a prime time guy, especially if all it will take is cap space. They can advance the timeline of their rebuild with a guy like Kawhi or KD. Does it make the most sense? Time will tell. I do think they have the right guys in place in the FO, no longer guys just playing checkers

[PeroAntic]

Carmelo and Porzingis were a superteam....?



:biggums:
They also had an MVP and DPOY with them. Sadly the DPOY spent most of the season on the injury table and instead of Zingis moving to the 5 and Melo to the 4 where hes far more effective, they had Kyle O Quinn starting at center:facepalm

[90sgoat]

KP is nothing like Dirk.

He was nicknamed "the Unicorn" for a reason.

KP is an elite rim protector and shot blocker with a 3 point shot. His defensive prowess is worth it alone.

His only comparison with Dirk is they both like to work from the high post and shoot over opponents.

I'd say he is most similar to a taller Kevin Durant, except not as mobile and better on D/worse from 3, but their shot selection is similar.

[Haymaker]

Porzingis is a talented player, but he is a major headache with his preference to play at the 4. Hes too slow to guard small ball PFs on the perimeter. He should be playing center, but hes too light and of underdeveloped frame to battle with bigs all game. If he was willing to play at the 5 and Melo at the 4 instead of them prefering the 4 and 3 respectively, the Knicks superteam experiment might have worked.

The league is moving towards position-less basketball and you're worried about if he should play four or five? Dallas couldn't ask for a better return. He'll fit right in with Luka.

[baudkarma]

what dont you guys get?

We are in REBUILD mode. We dont need good players now. We're holding out for something better while we tank for a high pick.

When are the Knicks NOT in rebuild mode? When are they not tanking to get a high pick? A pick which they will inevitably screw up?

Okay, if you're a Knicks fan, here's what you're hoping. You're hoping that the Knicks have reached out privately to Kevin and Kyrie, and have heard from both of their camps that they want to come and play for the Knicks. The Knicks need to free up a couple of max salary slots, so BANG! trade away our best player to let those two guy know that we're serious and we're all in.

If the Knicks manage to sign Durant and Irving using the cap space they created from this trade, then they win. If they sign one of those guys it's a draw, depending on what they get with the Mavs draft choices. If they whiff again in free agency, as they have so many times before, then they're looking pretty stupid. Which is actually somewhat normal for them.

[PeroAntic]

The league is moving towards position-less basketball and you're worried about if he should play four or five? Dallas couldn't ask for a better return. He'll fit right in with Luka.
Porzingis cant defend on the perimeter well, so in order to minimize that liability you cant afford to pair him with another big (unless hes a defensive specialist ala Gobert). Its not exactly rocket science