Ok, let's give Lebron a pass for his first 2 seasons

[3ball]

.
RS

MJ. 85-87' RS (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1987-sum:per_game):. 31.7 ppg.. 2.0 oreb.. 3.6 dreb.. 5.0 apg.. 2.6 spg.. 1.2 bpg.. 57.1 ts.. 27.8 PER
LBJ 06-08' RS (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2006-2008-sum:per_game)... 27.2 ppg.. 1.2 oreb.. 5.9 dreb.. 7.1 apg.. 1.4 spg.. 1.0 bpg.. 56.3 ts.. 27.2 PER..


MJ was better, yet his teams only got the 8 seed, while lebron got the 2 seed and a couple 4 seeds.

And MJ's stats are deflated by his injured 86' season (18 games at 25 mpg)



PO

MJ. 85-87' PO (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1987-sum:playoffs_per_game):. 35.5 ppg.. 1.9 oreb.. 4.4 dreb.. 6.9 apg.. 2.4 spg.. 1.5 bpg.. 56.0 ts.. 27.4 PER
LBJ 06-08' PO (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2006-2008-sum:playoffs_per_game)... 27.5 ppg.. 1.4 oreb.. 6.6 dreb.. 7.3 apg.. 1.6 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 53.1 ts.. 23.8 PER..


^^^Yet MJ lost in the 1st round and Lebron made Finals... :lebronamazed:... :lebronamazed:

It's safe to say that Jordan's 8 seed casts were much worse than lebron's high seed casts, and therefore lebron's better teams/higher seeds weren't because he was "carrying" his team more
.

[FKAri]

How could a team with 0 all-stars push a team to the brink while the GOAT at 24 years old got swept by that same team a round earlier?

[bullettooth]

The mental gymnastics are so funny from Manny, Lambruh and Dray n Klay as they immediately go to stats when LeBron is losing (epically) or go to the lonely three wins but don't mention stats (cuz he aint that great).

But Jordan's got both stats AND wins.

[3ball]

How could a team with 0 all-stars push a team to the brink while the GOAT at 24 years old got swept by that same team a round earlier?


MJ didn't have any decorated teammates like 2-time all-star center or a 22/5/5 steals champion/1st team defender

So his bulls were the 8 seed instead of defending conference champs and high seed like Lebron's team

In addition to weaker supporting talent, MJ lacked the defensive personnel to keep the boat afloat while he shit the bed offensively with 26 on 35%... and of course, he was facing a much better version of boston

[FKAri]

MJ didn't have any decorated teammates like 2-time all-star center or a 22/5/5 steals champion/1st team defender

So his bulls were the 8 seed instead of defending conference champs and high seed like Lebron's team

In addition to weaker supporting talent, MJ lacked the defensive personnel to keep the boat afloat while he shit the bed offensively with 26 on 35%... and of course, he was facing a much better version of boston
Team of ZERO all-stars >> a team led by 24 year old MJ ?

[zeerghit]

MJ didn't have any decorated teammates like 2-time all-star center or a 22/5/5 steals champion/1st team defender

So his bulls were the 8 seed instead of defending conference champs and high seed like Lebron's team

In addition to weaker supporting talent, MJ lacked the defensive personnel to keep the boat afloat while he shit the bed offensively with 26 on 35%... and of course, he was facing a much better version of boston
good for mj that pippen saved hi legacy, that little shit couldnt win a game

[superduper]

good for mj that pippen saved hi legacy, that little shit couldnt win a game

What does LeGOAT win without running away?

[bullettooth]

What does LeGOAT win without running away?

Nothing.

And even with collusion and all star help, he goes 3/9.

[superduper]

Nothing.

And even with collusion and all star help, he goes 3/9.

:(

[Hey Yo]

What does LeGOAT win without running away?
What does Kobe win if he doesn't run from Calipari and the NJ Nets on draft day?

[zeerghit]

What does LeGOAT win without running away?
how about winning against 73-9 team?

[Akrazotile]

.
RS

MJ. 85-87' RS (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1987-sum:per_game):. 31.7 ppg.. 2.0 oreb.. 3.6 dreb.. 5.0 apg.. 2.6 spg.. 1.2 bpg.. 57.1 ts.. 27.8 PER
LBJ 06-08' RS (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2006-2008-sum:per_game)... 27.2 ppg.. 1.2 oreb.. 5.9 dreb.. 7.1 apg.. 1.4 spg.. 1.0 bpg.. 56.3 ts.. 27.2 PER..


MJ was better, yet his teams only got the 8 seed, while lebron got the 2 seed and a couple 4 seeds.

And MJ's stats are deflated by his injured 86' season (18 games at 25 mpg)



PO

MJ. 85-87' PO (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1987-sum:playoffs_per_game):. 35.5 ppg.. 1.9 oreb.. 4.4 dreb.. 6.9 apg.. 2.4 spg.. 1.5 bpg.. 56.0 ts.. 27.4 PER
LBJ 06-08' PO (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2006-2008-sum:playoffs_per_game)... 27.5 ppg.. 1.4 oreb.. 6.6 dreb.. 7.3 apg.. 1.6 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 53.1 ts.. 23.8 PER..


^^^Yet MJ lost in the 1st round and Lebron made Finals... :lebronamazed:... :lebronamazed:

It's safe to say that Jordan's 8 seed casts were much worse than lebron's high seed casts, and therefore lebron's better teams/higher seeds weren't because he was "carrying" his team more
.

Games were faster paced and higher scoring in the 80s.

90s was a watered down expansion era, weak competition.

MJ's stats are massively inflated as a result of both.


We keep winning.

[bullettooth]

how about winning against 73-9 team?

With ZERO all stars while GSW had Bogut out, Curry and Igoudala playing injured and Draymond suspended?!

It's almost as if LeBron's entire career has never seen an asterisk!

[FKAri]

With ZERO all stars while GSW had Bogut out, Curry and Igoudala playing injured and Draymond suspended?!

It's almost as if LeBron's entire career has never seen an asterisk!
'87 Bucks had ZERO all-stars and they outdid 24 year old MJ :oldlol:
It's almost as if MJ would be TMac if it wasn't for David Stern, Pippen and Nike stepping in.

[bullettooth]

'87 Bucks had ZERO all-stars and they outdid 24 year old MJ :oldlol:
It's almost as if MJ would be TMac if it wasn't for David Stern, Pippen and Nike stepping in.

Did you just go to the extent of bringing in NIKE into your MJ meltdowns?!

:roll:

You pathetic loser! :lol

[TheCorporation]

Dear 3ball,

Nearly everyone this forum already knows that Scottie Pippen saved Michael Jordan's legacy. It's no wonder Jordan was 1 for 10 in the playoffs before Scottie was a member of the Chicago Bulls. These. Are. Facts.

You can attempt to manipulate stats as much as you'd like but the fact remains. Sans Scottie Pippen, MJ would be a taller Allen Iverson. I don't even need to look up Iverson's playoff stats but I'm assuming they are better than 1-10 so technically MJ might even be a lesser version of Iverson, albeit taller.

Once again, Scottie saved MJ's career and I think it's actually pretty f'd up of you to brush that to the side like MJ was some sort of great player without Scottie. And don't even get me started on MJ's Finals competition...:facepalm

MJ is a scorer. A dunker. A bad shooter. And a 1-9 loser without the help of a legendary teammate.

[Gus Hemmingway]

'87 Bucks had ZERO all-stars and they outdid 24 year old MJ :oldlol:
It's almost as if MJ would be TMac if it wasn't for David Stern, Pippen and Nike stepping in.
:roll: :roll:

[FKAri]

Did you just go to the extent of bringing in NIKE into your MJ meltdowns?!

:roll:

You pathetic loser! :lol
Did you just totally sidestep the statement preceding that? :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

How could a team with 0 all-stars push a team to the brink while the GOAT at 24 years old got swept by that same team a round earlier?

That's such a horseshit argument. That Bucks team won 50 games and had a top 10 offense and a top 5 defense with 7 10+ ppg scorers, 5 of them averaged 15+ ppg in the Playoffs. Sidney Moncrief had made 5 straight ASG as a perennial 20+ ppg scorer but was injured during the RS but was back to being his old self in the POs.

Jordan had Oakley and a bunch of mediocre players, you needed 4-5 great players to win in the Playoffs in the 80s. Paxson was his 3rd option for crying out loud and Oakley, his 2nd option, never averaged 15+ ppg for a single season in his career.

Now compare that to Lebron missing the Playoffs with Big Z averaging 17/9 and Drew Gooden averaging 14/9, even his 3rd option averaged 13 ppg. Compare that to Oakley and Paxson as your 2nd and 3rd options in the 80s :kobe:

[bullettooth]

Dear 3ball,

Nearly everyone this forum already knows that Scottie Pippen saved Michael Jordan's legacy. It's no wonder Jordan was 1 for 10 in the playoffs before Scottie was a member of the Chicago Bulls. These. Are. Facts.

You can attempt to manipulate stats as much as you'd like but the fact remains. Sans Scottie Pippen, MJ would be a taller Allen Iverson. I don't even need to look up Iverson's playoff stats but I'm assuming they are better than 1-10 so technically MJ might even be a lesser version of Iverson, albeit taller.

Once again, Scottie saved MJ's career and I think it's actually pretty f'd up of you to brush that to the side like MJ was some sort of great player without Scottie. And don't even get me started on MJ's Finals competition...:facepalm

MJ is a scorer. A dunker. A bad shooter. And a 1-9 loser without the help of a legendary teammate.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGuhL4U2WyjdkaY/giphy.gif

[FKAri]

That's such a horseshit argument. That Bucks team won 50 games and had a top 10 offense and a top 5 defense with 7 10+ ppg scorers, 5 of them averaged 15+ ppg in the Playoffs. Sidney Moncrief had made 5 straight ASG as a perennial 20+ ppg scorer but was injured during the RS but was back to being his old self in the POs.

Jordan had Oakley and a bunch of mediocre players, you needed 4-5 great players to win in the Playoffs in the 80s. Paxson was his 3rd option for crying out loud and Oakley, his 2nd option, never averaged 15+ ppg for a single season in his career.
First of all: Good points! See 3ball this is how you defend the GOAT. Something that is SOOOO easy to do if you're not retarded. Shoutout to your psychologist.

Second of all: Once the Pistons got 2. Stern with backing from Nike basically nodded that it was MJ's time now. Enter the "Y'all can't touch Michael now" rules.

[zeerghit]

With ZERO all stars while GSW had Bogut out, Curry and Igoudala playing injured and Draymond suspended?!

It's almost as if LeBron's entire career has never seen an asterisk!
curry played 7 games, iggi played 7 games, green played 6 games, bogut played 5 games, love played 6 games with stats 8,5pts and they beat a f*cking 73-9 team and lebron lead in every category so just stfu. and yes pippen wasnt drafted by bulls

[TheCorporation]

'87 Bucks had ZERO all-stars and they outdid 24 year old MJ :oldlol:
It's almost as if MJ would be TMac if it wasn't for David Stern, Pippen and Nike stepping in.

:eek: T-Mac, Iverson, Carmelo, or Demar but he would definitely have a career like those if it weren't for Stern and Pippen

[ImKobe]

First of all: Good points! See 3ball this is how you defend the GOAT. Something that is SOOOO easy to do if you're not retarded. Word to your psychologist.

Second of all: Once the Pistons got 2. Stern with backing from Nike basically nodded that it was MJ's time now. Enter the "Y'all can't touch Michael now" rules.

The league certainly benefited from making it easier for MJ to help him win more titles, but this has happened to other superstars before (see: defensive rule changes to make it easier for guys like Kobe & Lebron to score in the mid-2000s).

Superstars get reffed differently, it's a business at the end of the day. You want the big names to be in championship contention. You want high-scoring games with plenty of splash plays.

It's why the Cavs were able to come back against the Warriors in 2016, refs swallowed their whistles and allowed Cavs to play physical defense on Curry/Thompson while calling everything on the other end. You don't think that the league benefits from extending that series?

[Rico2016]

The league certainly benefited from making it easier for MJ to help him win more titles, but this has happened to other superstars before (see: defensive rule changes to make it easier for guys like Kobe & Lebron to score in the mid-2000s).

Superstars get reffed differently, it's a business at the end of the day. You want the big names to be in championship contention. You want high-scoring games with plenty of splash plays.

It's why the Cavs were able to come back against the Warriors in 2016, refs swallowed their whistles and allowed Cavs to play physical defense on Curry/Thompson while calling everything on the other end. You don't think that the league benefits from extending that series?

Ok I get that but then were the refs swallowing their whistles when Thunder was up 3-1 on the Warriors, or when the Warriors were up 3-1 on Cavs?

[FKAri]

The league certainly benefited from making it easier for MJ to help him win more titles, but this has happened to other superstars before (see: defensive rule changes to make it easier for guys like Kobe & Lebron to score in the mid-2000s).

Superstars get reffed differently, it's a business at the end of the day. You want the big names to be in championship contention. You want high-scoring games with plenty of splash plays.

It's why the Cavs were able to come back against the Warriors in 2016, refs swallowed their whistles and allowed Cavs to play physical defense on Curry/Thompson while calling everything on the other end. You don't think that the league benefits from extending that series?
It's very subtle and nothing more than a nudge in the "right" direction. But it started with Magic/Bird and continues till present.

Ok I get that but then were the refs swallowing their whistles when Thunder was up 3-1 on the Warriors, or when the Warriors were up 3-1 on Cavs?
Both series went 7 and the face of the league won a championship in the most heroic way imaginable. :oldlol:

[And1AllDay]

Did you just totally sidestep the statement preceding that? :oldlol:

Yes he did becos he knows better :oldlol: :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Ok I get that but then were the refs swallowing their whistles when Thunder was up 3-1 on the Warriors, or when the Warriors were up 3-1 on Cavs?

Well, look at the scores of those games, they weren't particularly close in either way, Cavs-Warriors series only had one close game (Game 7), Warriors won all their 3 games in blowout fashion.

You obviously can't just rig a game, but there are ways to influence the outcome, like calling two quick fouls in the first quarter to send a guy to the bench or missing a call in a crucial moment. Doesn't mean that it's all the way rigged, but giving someone like Jordan or Lebron the slightest of advantages can help them win more games.