Lebron played with 3 different guys who won titles as the man

[Duncan21formvp]

Lebron played on team where guys won titles as the man. He played with Ben Wallace who was the only allstar on a team that won it all and then lost to Dwight Howard with that player. He played with Shaq who has 3 finals mvp's (including winning with Kobe and Wade but only round 2 with Lebron) and he played with Wade who has a finals mvp. In fact Lebron played with all of them when they had all won already and Lebron hadn't won jack. He also has been down in a series every year of his career at least 3-2 in a series.

[The Iron Fist]

Lebron played on team where guys won titles as the man. He played with Ben Wallace who was the only allstar on a team that won it all and then lost to Dwight Howard with that player. He played with Shaq who has 3 finals mvp's (including winning with Kobe and Wade but only round 2 with Lebron) and he played with Wade who has a finals mvp. In fact Lebron played with all of them when they had all won already and Lebron hadn't won jack. He also has been down in a series every year of his career at least 3-2 in a series.
Was worse is how many times his counterpart won finals mvp. Cringe.

[bullettooth]

All that help for so many years and he's still going to go down in history as a modern day Jerry West;

The guy that kept losing.

[AussieSteve]

Great thread. How did LeBron not go all the way with former all star and champion Ben Wallace giving him 3ppg in the playoffs.

I just checked the stats and there was even a game where he put up 5 points AND 5 boards. And even with this monster performance, LeBron still couldn't get the win. In the first round, no less!!

[TheCorporation]

1-9

[2swift4u]

Great thread. How did LeBron not go all the way with former all star and champion Ben Wallace giving him 3ppg in the playoffs.

I just checked the stats and there was even a game where he put up 5 points AND 5 boards. And even with this monster perfoance, LeBron still couldn't get the win. In the first round, no less!!

:roll: :applause:

[ImKobe]

Great thread. How did LeBron not go all the way with former all star and champion Ben Wallace giving him 3ppg in the playoffs.

I just checked the stats and there was even a game where he put up 5 points AND 5 boards. And even with this monster performance, LeBron still couldn't get the win. In the first round, no less!!

Ben Wallace was their 3rd fcking big in rotation, that's how stacked their frontcourt was. Lebron lost to Dwight Howard in 6 games with his 2nd option averaging 18 ppg while Kobe beat the same team with their 2nd all-star returning for the series in just 5.

Lebron's 2nd and 3rd option vs Magic - 32.7 ppg
Kobe's 2nd & 3rd option vs Magic - 32.0 ppg

Lebron had no help though

How does he lose an elimination game, where Mo, Delonte and Andy V go for a 53 pts on 22/43 shooting? How you the GOAT and lose to Dwight Howard like that?

[Hey Yo]

Ben Wallace was their 3rd fcking big in rotation, that's how stacked their frontcourt was. Lebron lost to Dwight Howard in 6 games with his 2nd option averaging 18 ppg while Kobe beat the same team with their 2nd all-star returning for the series in just 5.

Lebron's 2nd and 3rd option vs Magic - 32.7 ppg
Kobe's 2nd & 3rd option vs Magic - 32.0 ppg

Lebron had no help though

How does he lose an elimination game, where Mo, Delonte and Andy V go for a 53 pts on 22/43 shooting? How you the GOAT and lose to Dwight Howard like that?
Orlando shot 41% from 3 again Cleveland

They shot 33% against LA

there's you answer

[Gileraracer]

You just need to read this list of teammates. Can you name 10 players that wouldn't have won 3+ rings with that much help? :eek:


Shaq
Ray Allen
Dwyane Wade
Chris Bosh
Kyrie Irving
Kevin Love
Ben Wallace
Jerry Stackhouse
Mike Bibby
Rajon Rondo
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Mo Williams
Carlos Boozer
Antawn Jamison
Dion Waiters
Shawn Marion
Deron Williams
Derrick Rose
Kyle Korver
Lance Stephenson


The worst guy on that list is a 14ppg scorer (who had 12 APG the same year) :eek:

[egokiller]

Lebron played on team where guys won titles as the man. He played with Ben Wallace who was the only allstar on a team that won it all and then lost to Dwight Howard with that player. He played with Shaq who has 3 finals mvp's (including winning with Kobe and Wade but only round 2 with Lebron) and he played with Wade who has a finals mvp. In fact Lebron played with all of them when they had all won already and Lebron hadn't won jack. He also has been down in a series every year of his career at least 3-2 in a series.

The very next year Billups, Prince, and R. Wallace were all-stars also. They had to win it all to be voted in as all-stars the next year even though their play during the year they won it was at an all-star level. :oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

Ben Wallace was their 3rd fcking big in rotation, that's how stacked their frontcourt was. Lebron lost to Dwight Howard in 6 games with his 2nd option averaging 18 ppg while Kobe beat the same team with their 2nd all-star returning for the series in just 5.

Lebron's 2nd and 3rd option vs Magic - 32.7 ppg
Kobe's 2nd & 3rd option vs Magic - 32.0 ppg

Lebron had no help though

How does he lose an elimination game, where Mo, Delonte and Andy V go for a 53 pts on 22/43 shooting? How you the GOAT and lose to Dwight Howard like that?
Dwight vs the stacked Cavs frontcourt: 26/13 on 65%
Dwight vs the Lakers frontcourt: 15/15 on 49%

[ShawkFactory]

Ben Wallace was their 3rd fcking big in rotation, that's how stacked their frontcourt was. Lebron lost to Dwight Howard in 6 games with his 2nd option averaging 18 ppg while Kobe beat the same team with their 2nd all-star returning for the series in just 5.

Lebron's 2nd and 3rd option vs Magic - 32.7 ppg
Kobe's 2nd & 3rd option vs Magic - 32.0 ppg

Lebron had no help though

How does he lose an elimination game, where Mo, Delonte and Andy V go for a 53 pts on 22/43 shooting? How you the GOAT and lose to Dwight Howard like that?
Stop being disingenuous. Do we really need to talk about how bad Mo was in that series?

[3ball]

Stop being disingenuous. Do we really need to talk about how bad Mo was in that series?
Hedo was worse

That series was a shootout where both teams scored well above their normal ORtg's (no defense by either team)

So whoever could outscore the other would win, and dwight-ball proved to be > lebron-ball

lebron-ball lost another shootout in 17' Finals, despite 29 ppg kyrie.. unfortunately, they were out-assisted by a million, so their #26 all-time offense was no match for the Warriors' #1

This is standard with lebron-ball - ultimately, his weaker championship record didn't reflect lack of personal or supporting talent, but an approach to the game that didn't yield the best offenses, brand of ball, and teams of his era.. this causes all the underdog talk, and subsequent attempts to change the goat criteria away from winning, into losing but appearing outmatched (weaponizing losing because the star can't field the best teams, offenses, or brand of ball)

[superduper]

Ben Wallace was their 3rd fcking big in rotation, that's how stacked their frontcourt was. Lebron lost to Dwight Howard in 6 games with his 2nd option averaging 18 ppg while Kobe beat the same team with their 2nd all-star returning for the series in just 5.

Lebron's 2nd and 3rd option vs Magic - 32.7 ppg
Kobe's 2nd & 3rd option vs Magic - 32.0 ppg

Lebron had no help though

How does he lose an elimination game, where Mo, Delonte and Andy V go for a 53 pts on 22/43 shooting? How you the GOAT and lose to Dwight Howard like that?

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/OoOoo.gif

[ShawkFactory]

Hedo was worse

That series was a shootout where both teams scored well above their normal ORtg's (no defense by either team)

So whoever could outscore the other would win, and dwight-ball proved to be > lebron-ball

lebron-ball lost another shootout in 17' Finals, despite 29 ppg kyrie.. unfortunately, they were out-assisted by a million, so their #26 all-time offense was no match for the Warriors' #1

This is standard with lebron-ball - ultimately, his weaker championship record didn't reflect lack of personal or supporting talent, but an approach to the game that didn't yield the best offenses, brand of ball, and teams of his era.. this causes all the underdog talk, and subsequent attempts to change the goat criteria away from winning, into losing but appearing outmatched (weaponizing losing because the star can't field the best teams, offenses, or brand of ball)
How?

[jbryan1984]

Ben Wallace was their 3rd fcking big in rotation, that's how stacked their frontcourt was. Lebron lost to Dwight Howard in 6 games with his 2nd option averaging 18 ppg while Kobe beat the same team with their 2nd all-star returning for the series in just 5.

Lebron's 2nd and 3rd option vs Magic - 32.7 ppg
Kobe's 2nd & 3rd option vs Magic - 32.0 ppg

Lebron had no help though

How does he lose an elimination game, where Mo, Delonte and Andy V go for a 53 pts on 22/43 shooting? How you the GOAT and lose to Dwight Howard like that?


That 09 Orlando team was rough. We had no answer for Dwight. He was a monster back then and if you double teamed him, Hedo, Rashard, Nelson, Anderson are all waiting to shoot an open 3. That Orlando team was one of the teams that really set the bar for how teams play today. Z, Andy and old man Ben were no match for D12. Then we got Shaq thinking he was the answer the next year. Even at 38, he was huge, just needed a body on Dwight but obviously, we never got there and Rondo and KG rapped Jamison and Mo.

[egokiller]

That 09 Orlando team was rough. We had no answer for Dwight. He was a monster back then and if you double teamed him, Hedo, Rashard, Nelson, Anderson are all waiting to shoot an open 3. That Orlando team was one of the teams that really set the bar for how teams play today. Z, Andy and old man Ben were no match for D12. Then we got Shaq thinking he was the answer the next year. Even at 38, he was huge, just needed a body on Dwight but obviously, we never got there and Rondo and KG rapped Jamison and Mo.

Lebron didn't do enough. All he had to do was cover Hedo but he was too worried about his stats.

[Duncan21formvp]

1-9
Yep Lebron's record last 2 years in the playoffs vs Warriors or vs Warriors and Spurs even with other star players on the squad.