So with Lebron being the GOAT and MJ 2nd greatest of all time, who is your 3rd?

[Nash]

We need to have that discussion even more.

Kareem? Magic? Russell?

[Gus Hemmingway]

I actually have Lebron #1, Kareem #2 and Jordan #3



It is what it is

[Manny98]

1. LeBron
2. Jordan
3. Magic
4. Duncan
5. Kareem
6. Shaq
7. Russell
8. Wilt
9. Bird
10. Hakeem
11. Erving
12. Kobe
13. KG
14. Drob
15. West

[bullettooth]

Only a few posts in and this thread is already chock full of retard.

[Kblaze8855]

On the rare occasion I can be bothered to think about it....im not seeing Lebron as a top 3 type.

Hes not one of the 3 most skilled, not one of the 3 most successful, not one of the 3 most impactful on their era....some might say he gets that one but...Russell, Wilt, Curry, Jordan, and Mikan all meant more to their leagues/the style of play.

Lebron is credited with the freedom of movement era by some but really...he just came along as the first generation of stars whos entire career had free agency, a CBA controlling contract lengths, and predictable points of freedom for young stars. Lebron drafted in 1990 would have been given the same 12 year deal Larry Johnson got or the 15 year deal Webber got and he would have taken it...because what 20 year old turns down 12 years 200 million? He didnt give players freedom. The CBA did.

He is among the greatest physical specimens ever...but no more so than Shaq, Wilt, or David Robinson and with guys like Giannis at 6'11'' 250 all muscle and still working out? Lebron is unusual because hes a 4s size with guard coordination. Giannis is too. Not as skilled....but he just turned 24. Lebrons am onster...but not the only one. How many Ralph Sampsons have there ever been? At least 7'3'' running the floor like a 3, shooting jumpers, dunking from the ft line with ease?

Lebron is a freak but I dont know if being a freak can be your main claim to a top 3 spot.

He isnt among the 3 most dominant...hes no more effective than Jordan, Kareem, Russell, or Shaq. He does have a better two way skillset than Russell but he doesnt impact outcomes at that rate. Sure its because Rusell provided an evolutionary leap in the impact of great defenders and thinkers...but it is what it is. Im not talking about why...im talking bottom lines. He isnt a more useful player to have in 2010 than Bird is in 1984 or Wilt in 66.

For all the talk of his impact on franchises....hes not a top 3 franchise player far as who you want to build around.

You build a franchise....you take Tim Duncan first. You take Bird first. Id take Jordan but for different reasons. Lebron is a talent...not a guy to make your team just.....be a reflection of himself(in a positive way) and provide stability and reliability.

Lebron is an immense talent and all time elite physical marvel with 3rd tier great skills. But....its a physical game and having insane attributes counts. So he has 3rd level skills in a A++++ body...so id give him all time second tier GOAT status.

The general Lebron level if I had to include guys I put a notch ahead and behind...just...basic tier?

No order...

Lebron
Bird
Magic
Kobe
Hakeem
Duncan
Shaq




Id put Jordan, Kareem, and Russell on the tier above that....and id hear arguments to put Wilt in either group...and an argument to add any of the following players to group 2:


Oscar
Doctor J
West
Baylor

And we will have to figure out what were doing with Durant, Moses, Curry, Wade, Barkley, Isiah, Drob, KG, Dirk, Hondo and like....9 other people who arent just factually worse or less effective than that brief list above.

You run into the problem that when yo throw out all the bullshit....look at basketball only? Once you get past like...top 3? You could probably go to #20 before its a major major talent or impact difference. We start going into how long people were great....why they were great...what did they win...

Lots of things that arent the same thing as how good anyone is at the game.

Put Lebron in 1994 on a team with equal talent to David Robinson they would win about the same games and lose in the playoffs.

None of these people are as far apart as we want to make ourselves think.

Top 30 all time greats in the same league?

Its not impossible Moses Malone, David Robinson or James Harden wins an MVP. It comes down to rules, teammates, coaching, and narratives.

Randomized all time league....Lebron wouldnt stand out any more than a lot of these guys. Lebron is a hell of a lot greater and all around better than Steph Curry. The 2015 and 16 Warriors are a worse team with him on them though.

So in the end....what is greatness?

Its abstract. Its what the person talking wants it to be.

Lebrons a monster talent. But hes never done anything to make him stand out as an automatic top 3. Too many people have too great a story to tell.

Some of you talk like hes Godzilla. Hes not the king of monsters. Hes a monster...but hes like....Rodan or King Kong. Hes in the pantheon...but hes not Zeus. He attends the meeting. He doesnt call the meeting. Hes one of those guys around the table during the Godfather listening to Don Corleone talk about making peace. He gets an invite. But its not his movie.

[ballinhun8]

Damn K shut it down.




He's a monster but he's not Godzilla. Damn. Damn. Damn.

[Manny98]

He's a monster but he's not Godzilla..
Neither is Jordan

[ballinhun8]

Neither is Jordan



If you're gonna quote me. Quote everything I wrote puta.

[FKAri]

me puta.
:wtf:

[AlternativeAcc.]

On the rare occasion I can be bothered to think about it....im not seeing Lebron as a top 3 type.

Hes not one of the 3 most skilled, not one of the 3 most successful, not one of the 3 most impactful on their era....some might say he gets that one but...Russell, Wilt, Curry, Jordan, and Mikan all meant more to their leagues/the style of play.

How are we defining success? Rings? Nice way to show us you're just another 'rings only' guys..

And saying he's not impactful on his era is another strawman/distraction from actually discussing impact as a player .... bu.. buu the kidz at the park play like currys therfore he better more impactz
:rolleyes:


yawn

[Prometheus]

kobe >

[Kblaze8855]

Would it matter how you defined success? Lebron wouldnt be top 3 in any of them. Not rings, winning percentage in general, accolades or records..hes not top 3 in general life success either. Magic, Jordan, and even guys you never heard of like Junior Bridgeman are more successful.....what definition could I use?

[kennethgriffen]

#1 Kareem
#2 MJ/Russell
#4 Kobe/Magic/Duncan
#7 Shaq/Bird/Wilt/Hakeem/Lebron
#12 Oscar/West/Baylor/Moses/Dr J
#17 Garnett/Dirk/Durant/Robinson/Karl/Barkley/Havlicek/Mikan/pettit
#26 Steph/Wade/Stockton/Isiah/Cousy/Iverson/Ewing


its impossible to rank everyone... theres only clear and obvious tiers associated to groups of guys

[3ball]

Neither is Jordan
Lebron's body of work isn't as great as what jordan did

And lets be babies and forget about winning for a second like lebron fans want

MJ's accomplishments are still greater..

- Better winning stats - 33.7 ppg and 6.6 apg in 91-93' PO... 27.2 and 7.2 for lebron in 12/13/16' PO
- Better losing stats - 44 ppg against goat celtics in 86', and 40 ppg combined versus 86' and 87' celts
- dominated the big men era for a decade, which led to todays perimeter player era
- Only player with 4+ fmvp (he has 6)
- 5 MVP's in 15 seasons
- Only player to hit multiple game-winners in the Finals
- 10 scoring titles
- a ridiculous 3-5 ppg more than anyone in history for RS and PO
- only player at 30/5/5 for regular season... And playoffs... and Finals
- Playoff and Finals scoring records
- 3000 points in a season
- 3-time steals champ.. 200 steals and 100 blocks in a season
- 9-time 1st team all-defense
- Only player that's top 2 in PER, VORP, BPM, WS/48 for RS and PO
- Set plus-minus record in 1996, before Curry broke it in 16'
- MJ was the best at stuff for various periods - midrange, defense, scoring, fadeaway, and more



Now if we include winning, then it gets ridiculous
.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Would it matter how you defined success? Lebron wouldnt be top 3 in any of them. Not rings, winning percentage in general, accolades or records..hes not top 3 in general life success either. Magic, Jordan, and even guys you never heard of like Junior Bridgeman are more successful.....what definition could I use?
Most of what you mention is heavily reliant on teammates/franchises/lucky circumstances

You don't consider LeBron playing 15 elite seasons in a row with maximal impact on his team, milking every last bit of potential from his teams as possible as not as successful as say... guys that played on stacked teams/had incredibly lucky circumstances? :facepalm

That's not success. Individual success is much harder to gauge and actually requires some critical thinking skills.

LeBron has been the best/most impactful player almost every year of his career. Forget MVPs, accolades, rings, all that shit... WHO HAS BEEN THE BEST PLAYER THE LONGEST? Year in and year ****ing out LeBron is the best player in the league

Other guys you think had more success never had a sustained run like LeBron has... has been as elite and durable over the course of their careers like LeBron.. actually gets BETTER in the playoffs... is the most versatile and adaptable player


But you're fixated on rings? Records in the 60's against real estate agents? Good god


LeBron IS the definition of success as an individual player. He consistently gets the most out of teams with otherwise no talent/ability to win in the playoffs and does it EVERY YEAR, for over a decade straight. THAT IS SUCCESS. LeBron IS the most successful player ever as an individual.

[bison]

K has it locked down. Context matters. It matter A LOT.

Here I am still thinking sedale threatt was a great shooter. I don’t have stats to back it up. I also don’t have curry stats on hand. A lot of you forget that sports is a form of entertainment. What does sports matter to us as human beings? Lebron has competition there, but Lebron is included in the conversation because he’s great.

[k0kakw0rld]

Kareem is GOAT. \

[3ball]

Most of what you mention is heavily reliant on teammates/franchises/lucky circumstances

.

lets be babies and forget about winning for a second:


- Better winning stats - 33.7 ppg and 6.6 apg in 91-93' PO... 27.2 and 7.2 for lebron in 12/13/16' PO
- Better losing stats - 44 ppg against goat celtics in 86', and 40 ppg combined versus 86' and 87' celts
- dominated the big men era for a decade, which led to todays perimeter player era
- Only player with 4+ fmvp (he has 6)
- 5 MVP's in 15 seasons
- Only player to hit multiple game-winners in the Finals
- 10 scoring titles
- a ridiculous 3-5 ppg more than anyone in history for RS and PO
- only player at 30/5/5 for regular season... And playoffs... and Finals
- Playoff and Finals scoring records
- 3000 points in a season
- 3-time steals champ.. 200 steals and 100 blocks in a season
- 9-time 1st team all-defense
- Only player that's top 2 in PER, VORP, BPM, WS/48 for RS and PO
- Set plus-minus record in 1996, before Curry broke it in 16'
- MJ was the best at stuff for various periods - midrange, defense, scoring, fadeaway, and more



Now if we include winning, then it gets ridiculous
.

[Kblaze8855]

If we are playing the "____ doesnt matter since it was a long time ago" game I dont even need to speak to you. Once you eliminate eras there is no point using the word "ever" or the last 2 letters in the GOAT acronym. Plus it feels like youre a bit emotional over the subject....and as if you have no idea what my general stance is and I dont think I need to have part 30 of my "Rings arent really the issue" conversation just because you have not been here long enough to know me. I dont feel like a conversation between you and I about Russell, Kareem, Duncan and so on would be terribly fruitful. Im losing the patience I used to have to explain things to people I know arent listening.

[k0kakw0rld]

6 MVPS > 4 MVPS
6 RINGS > 3 RINGS
2 FMVPS < 3 FMVPS

Most points scored in the NBA ever
Greatest college and NBA player to ever exist.

Kareem Abdul Jabbar

[Gileraracer]

3/9 with 2 superstar collusion does not qualify you for top 10

[AlternativeAcc.]

If we are playing the "____ doesnt matter since it was a long time ago" game I dont even need to speak to you. Once you eliminate eras there is no point using the word "ever" or the last 2 letters in the GOAT acronym. Plus it feels like youre a bit emotional over the subject....and as if you have no idea what my general stance is and I dont think I need to have part 30 of my "Rings arent really the issue" conversation just because you have not been here long enough to know me. I dont feel like a conversation between you and I about Russell, Kareem, Duncan and so on would be terribly fruitful. Im losing the patience I used to have to explain things to people I know arent listening.
And that's what I thought.. you have no ability what so ever to analyze players individually

Duncan... has he ever been considered the best player for a decade? Or anywhere fukking close to that?

What, he had 1 or 2 years considered the best and the rest of the time he was watching teammates outplay him in pivotal series because... well... he played on stacked teams with GOAT coach and happened to have team success therefore you rank him higher as an individual than you should because you're too stupid to see Duncan with LeBron's rosters would have zero rings for his career.


Find me a player that has been considered the best player in the league as long as LeBron and then get back to me, otherwise you're further exposing my point

[3ball]

6 MVPS > 4 MVPS
6 RINGS > 3 RINGS
2 FMVPS < 3 FMVPS

Most points scored in the NBA ever
Greatest college and NBA player to ever exist.

Kareem Abdul Jabbar
6 rings as the man > 2

Kareem wasn't in the goat conversation until the last year or two, when it's become convenient to use him to take away MJ's goat title, thus propping up lebron

Before the last couple years, no one talked about Kareem as goat, except the occasional ex-teammate, but most of them like magic said MJ was goat

Ultimately, Kareem only won 2-3 rings as the man, and trails MJ by wide margins statistically in per game raw stats, and also advanced stats.. there is no case for kareem

[bullettooth]

3/9 with 2 superstar collusion does not qualify you for top 10

This.

[Kblaze8855]

This right here is why its best I dont even interact with posters clearly born in the mid to late 90s.....


And that's what I thought.. you have no ability what so ever to analyze players individually

Duncan... has he ever been considered the best player for a decade? Or anywhere fukking close to that?

What, he had 1 or 2 years considered the best and the rest of the time he was watching teammates outplay him in pivotal series because... well... he played on stacked teams with GOAT coach and happened to have team success therefore you rank him higher as an individual than you should because you're too stupid to see Duncan with LeBron's rosters would have zero rings for his career.


Find me a player that has been considered the best player in the league as long as LeBron and then get back to me, otherwise you're further exposing my point

Im gonna just say peace and god bless....



https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ScholarlyUglyFlies-size_restricted.gif

[k0kakw0rld]

6 rings as the man > 2

Kareem wasn't in the goat conversation until the last year or two, when it's become convenient to use him to take away MJ's goat title, thus propping up lebron

Before the last couple years, no one talked about Kareem as goat, except the occasional ex-teammate, but most of them like magic said MJ was goat

Ultimately, Kareem only won 2-3 rings as the man, and trails MJ by wide margins statistically in per game raw stats, and also advanced stats.. there is no case for kareem
Winning rings isn't the only criteria to be the GOAT. And of course you bring the per game stats because longevity Michael don't have over Kareem and LeBron.

Which makes you an idiot and a hypocrite for criticizing LeBron stans when you use the same tactics.

[3ball]

Winning rings isn't the only criteria to be the GOAT. And of course you bring the per game stats because longevity Michael don't have over Kareem and LeBron.

Which makes you an idiot and a hypocrite for criticizing LeBron stans when you use the same tactics.
Per game is all that matters.. career totals are for the losing end of the argument, the weaker argument (longevity.. :rolleyes:)

MJ owns Kareem and lebron statistically, accolades and winning-wise.. what else is there?

But let's take out winning - MJ still destroys them:

- Better winning stats - 33.7 ppg and 6.6 apg in 91-93' PO... 27.2 and 7.2 for lebron in 12/13/16' PO
- Better losing stats - 44 ppg against goat celtics in 86', and 40 ppg combined versus 86' and 87' celts
- dominated the big men era for a decade, which led to todays perimeter player era
- Only player with 4+ fmvp (he has 6)
- Only player to hit multiple game-winners in the Finals
- 10 scoring titles
- a ridiculous 3-5 ppg more than anyone in history for RS and PO
- only player at 30/5/5 for regular season... And playoffs... and Finals
- Playoff and Finals scoring records
- 3000 points in a season
- 3-time steals champ.. 200 steals and 100 blocks in a season
- 9-time 1st team all-defense
- Only player that's top 2 in PER, VORP, BPM, WS/48 for RS and PO
- Set plus-minus record in 1996, before Curry broke it in 16'
- MJ was the best at stuff for various periods - midrange, defense, scoring, fadeaway, and more



Now if we include winning, then it gets ridiculous

[Akrazotile]

Actually kennethgriffin of all people made a compelling case lst night for kareem > mj

I think he’a right.


1. Lebron
2. Kareem
3. MJ


That’s the list as I see it currently.

[Akrazotile]

I actually have Lebron #1, Kareem #2 and Jordan #3



It is what it is


Damn, just saw you beat me to it.


Great minds think alike :hammertime:

[G0ATbe]

I got Kareem 2nd.

[AlternativeAcc.]

This right here is why its best I dont even interact with posters clearly born in the mid to late 90s.....



Im gonna just say peace and god bless....



https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ScholarlyUglyFlies-size_restricted.gif
Was Duncan ever considered the best for a decade straight like LeBron?

or was he the best for a few years at most, like many of the other players people try to prop up over LeBron all-time due to things like rings and lucky circumstances

['Toine=MVP]

6 rings as the man > 2

Kareem wasn't in the goat conversation until the last year or two, when it's become convenient to use him to take away MJ's goat title, thus propping up lebron

Before the last couple years, no one talked about Kareem as goat, except the occasional ex-teammate, but most of them like magic said MJ was goat

Ultimately, Kareem only won 2-3 rings as the man, and trails MJ by wide margins statistically in per game raw stats, and also advanced stats.. there is no case for kareem

This. All of this.

Plus it is way too easily overlooked how for much of his peak (which was his first few years in the league really), he was playing in the second best professional basketball league. The ABA was clearly better at the time. It is sort of like the Eastern Conference vs the West of the last decade or so. Sure, some EC team have won, but no one would argue the overall competition/path to a conference title was close at all.

Kareem should have been winning and coming close to winning a lot more early on. Losing to that 70s Celtics team in the "Finals" was ok I guess. Lost the round before that the previous year to a pretty so-so looking team and Kareem only managed to average 22 Pts a game that losing series. Somehow an aging/declining Oscar Robertson averaged almost as many. And in Kareem's final year with the Bucks, right in his peak, they had a sub .500 season. In the weaker league (imagine if LeBron finished sub .500 in the East! - we can give him a small break if he does that in the West this year like Kobe did).

He finished sub .500 again with the Lakers the year after that. The year after that, he actually made the playoffs but was swept in the then 2nd round which was the conference finals (Portland was a really good that won the finals that year in the post merger NBA and Kareem did put up some serious numbers, so not that bad I guess). The following year, lost 1-2 in the opening round (had a young pre-prime Dantley on that team and Jamal Wilkes who was pretty good). Then lost again in the 2nd round (to the eventual champion at least).

After that the Lakers added Magic and the organization started winning. Kareem still had some decent lower end peak-ish years with the Lakers before finishing out well post-peak. And won 5 more titles. But he was already 32 that first year with Magic.

I think the hook was pretty unstoppable of course and if you count college performance in your greatest rankings, that might get Kareem in the top 5 maybe, but the resume doesn't look all that great. And he was considered weak at the time too, unlike Wilt who didn't win at all in his peak. Really can't put Kareem over Wilt. You could maybe put Kareem over Russell if you think the talent gap was really big. I think the talent gap was big enough probably. But I could see the case for Russell over Kareem too. But you have to put MJ and Bird over him. You have to put Shaq over him. Magic is a weird case because man those skills might not translate super well across eras, but Magic's legacy is greater. LeBron should probably be rated more highly as well. Kareem has a very good case over Duncan and Hakeem though (the two other consensus top 10 greatest). Duncan did more winning in his prime, but Kareem was clearly the superior talent and if you just want to play the ring count game, Kareem still beats him, plus while both had great college careers, Kareem's was legendary. Hakeem...yeah I don't think there's much of a case.

[Kblaze8855]

Funny how time changes things. Kareem on ISH getting roasted over his teams record in a season he was voted MVP...by the other players. He puts up 28/17/5 with 4 blocks and 2 steals a game. Apparently...his peers were quite impressed regardless of how his team did. I suspect they had reason to be.

[rmt]

Most of what you mention is heavily reliant on teammates/franchises/lucky circumstances

Lebron, of all the consensus top 10 GOAT, has switched franchises, had more input in team mates, more freedom of team movement than any of them and STILL you use that as a positive? That's a BIG negative for Lebron. The others weren't flitting all over the league, colluding with other stars, recruiting team mates, etc - they mostly stayed where they were, stuck through thick and thin, developed their players, etc.

[bullettooth]

Lebron, of all the consensus top 10 GOAT, has switched franchises, had more input in team mates, more freedom of team movement than any of them and STILL you use that as a positive? That's a BIG negative for Lebron. The others weren't flitting all over the league, colluding with other stars, recruiting team mates, etc - they mostly stayed where they were, stuck through thick and thin, developed their players, etc.

Even when he's tried taking shortcuts, he's still lost.. and lost in embarrassing record fashion.

Too many black marks on LeBron's resume.

[And1AllDay]

I go Magic because Kareem only has 2 FMVPs. But I'm a Lakers fan so a little biased that ol' Kareem was a Buck first.

[Marchesk]

I go Magic because Kareem only has 2 FMVPs. But I'm a Lakers fan so a little biased that ol' Kareem was a Buck first.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[And1AllDay]

1. LeBron
2. Jordan
3. Magic
4. Duncan
5. Kareem
6. Shaq
7. Russell
8. Wilt
9. Bird
10. Hakeem
11. Erving
12. Kobe
13. KG
14. Drob
15. West

Wow..Nearly spot on...Amazing list :applause:

[And1AllDay]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Sorry for being honest :(

Now go YouTube some MJ dunks over 6'2 illegal zone defensive schemes :oldlol: :oldlol:

[bullettooth]

I go Magic because Kareem only has 2 FMVPs. But I'm a Lakers fan so a little biased that ol' Kareem was a Buck first.

:lol :lol NO YOU'RE NOT!

[Akrazotile]

:lol :lol NO YOU'RE NOT!



Gee, lemme guess, you think Im an “alt” because I happen to like both Lebron and the Lakers.

How original :rolleyes:

['Toine=MVP]

Funny how time changes things. Kareem on ISH getting roasted over his teams record in a season he was voted MVP...by the other players. He puts up 28/17/5 with 4 blocks and 2 steals a game. Apparently...his peers were quite impressed regardless of how his team did. I suspect they had reason to be.

Yeah he was the best player in the 2nd best league at the time. But that doesn't make him the 2nd best player of all time!

[StrongLurk]

MJ, Kareem, Lebron - those are the top 3, in order.

Too hard for me to rank Wilt or Russell with any kind of standard since basketball and the NBA back then was basically 95% different then it is now.

If you want to rank them, then idk HOW they aren't considered the two best players ever because Wilt owns half the NBA records and Bill Russell has 11 rings (and probably 8-9 FMVPS as well if the award existed back then).

[ballinhun8]

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]Gee, lemme guess, you think Im an

[72-10]

Funny how time changes things. Kareem on ISH getting roasted over his teams record in a season he was voted MVP...by the other players. He puts up 28/17/5 with 4 blocks and 2 steals a game. Apparently...his peers were quite impressed regardless of how his team did. I suspect they had reason to be.

Kareem won MVP one year when his team didn't even make the playoffs - '76, I think. He was a beast statistically. I don't know, though, people have put together a lot of footage of Kareem getting dunked on over his career, especially as skill level picked up in the 1980s, but he was old then, and what would anyone expect after 50 thousand friggin minutes?

[And1AllDay]

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]Gee, lemme guess, you think Im an

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan

Then you could argue the rest in that #2 - #4

Bird, Magic, Russell

[knicksman]

In the end, GOAT is all about who you build your team first. And lebron, A guy who needed superteams and 2 bailout shots is just not worth it. Only a moron would build around that player when there are lots of players that have won more with less.

['Toine=MVP]

In the end, GOAT is all about who you build your team first. And lebron, A guy who needed superteams and 2 bailout shots is just not worth it. Only a moron would build around that player when there are lots of players that have won more with less.

That is part of it, but it's also largely about a player's actual legacy (and yes luck and timing play a big part in the ability to achieve greatness).

[Ainosterhaspie]

In the end, GOAT is all about who you build your team first. And lebron, A guy who needed superteams and 2 bailout shots is just not worth it. Only a moron would build around that player when there are lots of players that have won more with less.
Everyone in the GOAT conversation played on super teams stacked with hall of famers.

[3ball]

Everyone in the GOAT conversation played on super teams stacked with hall of famers.
Who are the multiple HOF's in the 91-93' bulls' supporting cast?


Nobody was saying they had a stacked team or a "super" team at the time.. nobody said that

They won with the least help of any dynasty, and thus needed mj's goat stats

Best winning stats - 33.7 and 6.6 apg in 91-93' PO, versus 27.2 and 7.2 in 12/13/16 PO for lebron

Best losing stats - 40 ppg vs goat Celts in 86 and 87'

[Ainosterhaspie]

Who are the multiple HOF's in the 91-93' bulls' supporting cast?


Nobody was saying they had a stacked team or a "super" team at the time.. nobody said that

They won with the least help of any dynasty, and thus needed mj's goat stats

Best winning stats - 33.7 and 6.6 apg in 91-93' PO, versus 27.2 and 7.2 in 12/13/16 PO for lebron

Best losing stats - 40 ppg vs goat Celts in 86 and 87'
Jordan only won in 91-93? Weird, I though he had more than that. I know he got beat in 95, but I though he added another HOFer and got some more titles.

[3ball]

Jordan only won in 91-93? Weird, I though he had more than that. I know he got beat in 95, but I though he added another HOFer and got some more titles.
He 3-peated without a super-team

That's already better than Lebron, Magic, Bird, Curry - you name it - they all needed super-teams to win rings, let alone 3

that's why MJ was considered goat in 93' after he 3-peated..

[And1AllDay]

He 3-peated without a super-team

That's already better than Lebron, Magic, Bird, Curry - you name it - they all needed super-teams to win rings, let alone 3

that's why MJ was considered goat in 93' after he 3-peated..

Yeah, because he was beating up scrub teams...

-91 Lakers were weak (Magic w/ Aids, last sesaon before he retires) + Worthy gets hurt in series
-92 Blazers, Drexler lol
-93 Suns, legit, Barkely and KJ
-94, Baseball + dad killer
-95, Shaqs Magic spank him (this could have been his 1st big Finals win against Hakeem)
-96 Sonics, LMFAO
-97 Jazz, decent, modern day Clippers (CP3, Blake, Deandre, Crawford)
-98 Jazz, uhhh Hornacek #2 option

This is a pitiful resume. He BETTER go 6 for 6 against these cupcakes shit.

[bullettooth]

Yeah, because he was beating up scrub teams...

-91 Lakers were weak (Magic w/ Aids, last sesaon before he retires) + Worthy gets hurt in series
-92 Blazers, Drexler lol
-93 Suns, legit, Barkely and KJ
-94, Baseball + dad killer
-95, Shaqs Magic spank him (this could have been his 1st big Finals win against Hakeem)
-96 Sonics, LMFAO
-97 Jazz, decent, modern day Clippers (CP3, Blake, Deandre, Crawford)
-98 Jazz, uhhh Hornacek #2 option

This is a pitiful resume. He BETTER go 6 for 6 against these cupcakes shit.

How and when did you become so delusional?

[Ainosterhaspie]

He 3-peated without a super-team

That's already better than Lebron, Magic, Bird, Curry - you name it - they all needed super-teams to win rings, let alone 3

that's why MJ was considered goat in 93' after he 3-peated..
Bulls were still a super team for the era in 91-93. None of his opponents had a second option as good as Pippen,and Grant was as good as any third option they faced.

[Duncan21formvp]

Bulls were actually less talented than all of it's finals opponents.

[egokiller]

In the end, GOAT is all about who you build your team first. And lebron, A guy who needed superteams and 2 bailout shots is just not worth it. Only a moron would build around that player when there are lots of players that have won more with less.

Exactly... who is going to pick a guy that requires 2 of the greatest shots of all time to account for 2 of your teams rings? You are basically risking building your team around Jerry West and going 1/9. It would be dumb as hell to make that decision when you can instead go with a guy that's going to give your team a 6/6 record with 6 FMVPs when you give him enough help to get to the finals. :applause: