KG retires

[Uncle Drew]

It's over for The Big Ticket.

[BigKAT]

I'm happy he ended it at home.

[JohnMax]

Ring chaser. Started the "Super Teams" by bolting for Boston.

[JT123]

About 3 years too late honestly. But at least he went out with dignity and class, instead of staging some lame attention whoring retirement tour

[lilteapot]

Never liked him, and never will, but I gotta respect what he brought to the game. Hall of Fame career.

[Pointguard]

Ring chaser. Started the "Super Teams" by bolting for Boston.
He was traded. And had to be talked into it. But did win a ring.

[FreezingTsmoove]

The OG colluder who ruined the current era of basketball

If it wasnt for the stacked super celtics whooping Brin and Wade up every year in the playoffs the Miami 3 would have never teamed up to begin with

[ArbitraryWater]

Bit too late but what a career :applause:

Only player with two others to have played 22 seasons. Bit of an ass as a person though

[Draz]

That piece of shit started this super team shit storm we have today.

But I do remember having a poster of him back in my room in 3rd grade from sports illustrated and didn't know who he was really

[Wally450]

Damn, only started getting into basketball when he won his MVP. Such a great time during his stint in Boston. Great prime, great career.

Glad he got a ring. :applause:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

One of the greatest to ever do it. Top 20 all time.

:applause:

[jlip]

Kobe's and KG's retirements make me feel old. KG and I graduated high school the same year, and Kobe was actually a year after.


A few links regarding KG's retirement:


http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17620904/kevin-garnett-minnesota-timberwolves-expected-announce-retirement-friday

https://twitter.com/search?q=kevin+garnett+retire&ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Ese arch

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-wolves-kevin-garnett-to-announce-retirement/

[Pointguard]

Only guy to come to the game more intense than Jordan. Truly the most versatile big man ever. Was the best rebounder for awhile and arguably in this century. Can be argued as one of the best defensive players ever (as his effective communication was better than anybodies). He was the only player I went to see how he would trap players or his decision making on defense. He had a ball playing so it made sense to keep playing. He was the most unique player I ever saw on the court, personality wise/game wise.

[insidehoops]

1995 = the year Kevin Garnett was an NBA rookie
1995 = the year Karl-Anthony Towns was born

[Hey Yo]

He was traded. And had to be talked into it. But did win a ring.
He had to lift his no trade clause and had no problem doing so once Ray Allen was traded to Boston.

No Ray Ray = no KG

[RRR3]

Damn, three of the very best players to ever step foot on an NBA court played their final season in 2016. :(


Legendary player, nice that he ended his career in Minnesota

[Dray n Klay]

Damn, three of the very best players to ever step foot on an NBA court played their final season in 2016. :(


Legendary player, nice that he ended his career in Minnesota


KG.. Duncan.. who's the 3rd??

[Hey Yo]

I remember the talk that was generated about his 6yr 126mil contract he signed in 1999. It was considered a crazy amount of $$$$ for a 22-23yr old kid.

[jlip]

The 2022 Hall of Fame class is going to be awesome. Has Ray Allen officially retired?

[dazzer87]

So no hiring a camera crew to follow him around......? How lame.

[FreezingTsmoove]

KG.. Duncan.. who's the 3rd??


LMFAO BANNED!

[Hey Yo]

A top 5 video compilation someone put together.

https://twitter.com/gifdsports/status/779430441195565056

[Young X]

If he had been drafted to a winning or at least decent organization we would be talking about him as one of the greatest of all time.

He is one of the most skilled players to ever play. Maybe THE most versatile to ever play.

We've seen him play and defend all 5 positions even if it was just for a short period of time. How many players could you say that about?

When was the last time a 7 footer averaged 6 assists a game?

That while leading the league in rebounding, playing some of the best defense ever AND dropping 23-24 points a night.

Not to mention he was the guy who started the trend of players going straight to the league from high school (Moses was the first but the trend started after KG did it).

Glad I got to see him finally win a championship in 2008. Great career, phenomenal player.

[Real Men Wear Green]

He was traded. And had to be talked into it. But did win a ring.Shh...don't ruin a good troll festival with facts.
He had to lift his no trade clause and had no problem doing so once Ray Allen was traded to Boston.

No Ray Ray = no KGAnd that makes him a ring chaser, that he accepted being traded?

[Dragonyeuw]

If he had been drafted to a winning or at least decent organization we would be talking about him as one of the greatest of all time.



True, but I don't think KG had that alpha scoring ability needed to take a winning/decent team to championships without the closers around them. In his best season in Minny, the 2004 MVP year, Sprewell and Cassell were the ones doing alot of the clutch shot-taking. In Boston, it was Pierce and Allen. He just wasn't that kind of guy who could carry a great team offensively, who you could just throw the ball to and get the **** out the way. Not consistently, anyway...

He's definitely one of the 20 greatest ever in my book, regardless. One of the very best 'all-around' players ever.

[Hey Yo]

Shh...don't ruin a good troll festival with facts.And that makes him a ring chaser, that he accepted being traded?
I've never classified him as one. He paid his dues with the T-wolves and have no problem with his decision to waive the clause.

Still doesn't change the fact that he didn't waive until the Ray deal was done.

[alanLA92]

Damn, three of the very best players to ever step foot on an NBA court played their final season in 2016. :(


Legendary player, nice that he ended his career in Minnesota

Hard to believe that next season will have none of them playing.

[LostCause]

KG was loyal to a fault to Minnesota. They weren't willing to play his ball-game though and give him the extension he sought (Their front office even flat out said this) and were looking to go young, he wanted to win

Any sane person would trade to a team that can give him a chance of winning in that scenario

By no means is he a ring chaser

[Dragonyeuw]

So who's left from that era now? Dirk? Pierce? VC?

[Cold soul]

So who's left from that era now? Dirk? Pierce? VC?

Yeah those are only ones I can think of.

[LostCause]

Yeah those are only ones I can think of.



http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/draft_finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=1993&year_max=2000&college_id=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&is_active=Y&order_by=ws

[ArbitraryWater]

True, but I don't think KG had that alpha scoring ability needed to take a winning/decent team to championships without the closers around them. In his best season in Minny, the 2004 MVP year, Sprewell and Cassell were the ones doing alot of the clutch shot-taking. In Boston, it was Pierce and Allen. He just wasn't that kind of guy who could carry a great team offensively, who you could just throw the ball to and get the **** out the way. Not consistently, anyway...

He's definitely one of the 20 greatest ever in my book, regardless. One of the very best 'all-around' players ever.

Pretty much.. just wasnt an elite go to scorer, which is the most important franchise player asset.

[SwayDizzle]

That piece of shit started this super team shit storm we have today.

But I do remember having a poster of him back in my room in 3rd grade from sports illustrated and didn't know who he was really
this

[insidehoops]

Kevin Garnett is the all-time Timberwolves leader in games, minutes, points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, double-doubles and triple-doubles.

[Cold soul]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/draft_finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=1993&year_max=2000&college_id=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&is_active=Y&order_by=ws

Thanks anyway. :rolleyes:

[Smoke117]

Top 20 great all time, top 7 greatest defensive player all time, greatest all around player ever period...he will be missed. :bowdown:

[sammichoffate]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BKtwE-tjE0m/

[Hey Yo]

When KG was off the court.......there was one thing he made sure of.













He wore the biggest diamond earrings in the league.


http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2003/10/01_williamsb_garnett/images/garnett_large.jpg

[Pointguard]

True, but I don't think KG had that alpha scoring ability needed to take a winning/decent team to championships without the closers around them. In his best season in Minny, the 2004 MVP year, Sprewell and Cassell were the ones doing alot of the clutch shot-taking. In Boston, it was Pierce and Allen. He just wasn't that kind of guy who could carry a great team offensively, who you could just throw the ball to and get the **** out the way. Not consistently, anyway...

He's definitely one of the 20 greatest ever in my book, regardless. One of the very best 'all-around' players ever.
While he wasn't killing it that way, he did have that great King's series and overall had great stats in the clutch. http://www.libertyballers.com/2012/2/29/2832299/lebron-james-kobe-bryant-dwyane-wade-clutch-nba-playoffs-4th-quarter

And some of his defensive numbers were truly bizarre in the playoffs. KG didn't play in a great structured environment until he was in Boston. And he won right away when he did.

[Hey Yo]

The moment you knew KG's trash talk to LeBron stopped carrying any merit




https://twitter.com/gifdsports/status/779425824873279488

[Hey Yo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtFsvjOXgAASw47.jpg

[Smoke117]

**** you Hey Yo...what do you contribute to this board? Are you seriously coming into this thread to talk shit on KG? What does that say about you, playboy? Almost every post you make is you talking shit. Where the **** do you get off running your autistic mouth? That you think you aren't part the 90% of ****ing scum on ish is hilarious. All you do is talk shit and try and throw shade on other posters...why don't you try and run that mouth at off me? We both know why.

[Smoke117]

No? I didn't think so. *kiss* You know who is daddy at least.

[Doranku]

**** you Hey Yo...what do you contribute to this board? Are you seriously coming into this thread to talk shit on KG? What does that say about you, playboy? Almost every post you make is you talking shit. Where the **** do you get off running your autistic mouth? That you think you aren't part the 90% of ****ing scum on ish is hilarious. All you do is talk shit and try and throw shade on other posters...why don't you try and run that mouth at off me? We both know why.

:roll: Hey Yo is certainly a ****boy but you realize the bold applies more to you than it does to him, right?

[Smoke117]

:roll: Hey Yo is certainly a ****boy but you realize the bold applies more to you than it does to him, right?

Yawn. If you are going to try and attack me at least be clever about it. I don't even open my eyes for this pathetic shit.

[Smoke117]

HEY YO...don't be scared homie. Try and run that mouth off at me. Let's both have a good laugh as i bury you. No? Exactly.

You're the consummate coward of the board...a woman who runs her mouth knowing nothing is at stake. You are the corey haim of ish, bitch.

[tpols]

smoke ... take a chill pill.


i log on, and i see you raging.


relax ....




hey yo is mis guided, but well intentioned.

we will eventually show him the way.

[tpols]

kevin garnett was personally a favorite player of mine ...





http://i.giphy.com/139QyAzmcjzapO.gif



http://i.giphy.com/12VNEwTykxbO.gif









http://i.imgur.com/hzWr5Tm.gif



..

[KirbyPls]

Never liked him, and never will, but I gotta respect what he brought to the game. Hall of Fame career.

Agree.

[Smoke117]

smoke ... take a chill pill.


i log on, and i see you raging.


relax ....




hey yo is mis guided, but well intentioned.

we will eventually show him the way.


It's the principle, baby boy. When your balls drop you'll understand. If you are lucky you might one day evolve into an alpha male like me. *ruffles hair*

[Pointguard]

**** you Hey Yo...what do you contribute to this board? Are you seriously coming into this thread to talk shit on KG? What does that say about you, playboy? Almost every post you make is you talking shit. Where the **** do you get off running your autistic mouth? That you think you aren't part the 90% of ****ing scum on ish is hilarious. All you do is talk shit and try and throw shade on other posters...why don't you try and run that mouth at off me? We both know why.
I hear you on the trolls. But this actually wasn't a bad clip from Hey Yo at all. It was just KG testing Lebron and Bron standing up for himself.

[$LakerGold]

Guys :( 2k era :(

The only way we can live through vicariously is that if 2K decides to let us play the 2K era via association mode.

[Dragonyeuw]

While he wasn't killing it that way, he did have that great King's series and overall had great stats in the clutch. http://www.libertyballers.com/2012/2/29/2832299/lebron-james-kobe-bryant-dwyane-wade-clutch-nba-playoffs-4th-quarter

And some of his defensive numbers were truly bizarre in the playoffs. KG didn't play in a great structured environment until he was in Boston. And he won right away when he did.

I remember the Kings series well, especially the game when he had like 32 and 20, something like that? I'm not saying he didnt have the ability, more like the mentality. He just didnt have that innate mindset that some of the truly great scorers had. His defensive versatility was off the charts though.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Better than Duncan, worse franchise. Will be missed.

[Pointguard]

This is one of the most interesting threads about KG.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=308314

Some tidbits from it.
1. 1-on-1 defense mastery, from spring of 2012: On court with KG 5 previous (per 36)
Min Pts TS% Pts TS%
Nowitzki 1/11 30.2 14 55.4 20.1 53.9
Howard 1/23 12.4 3 19.6 21.3 55.6
Howard 1/26 21.4 5 37 21.3 55.6
Hibbert 1/27 16.3 6 30 18.4 57
Bynum 3/11 32.9 18 57.1 20 70.3
Smith 3/19 26.7 6 27.3 22 54.3
Gooden 3/22 19.4 6 33.8 21.2 63
Jefferson 3/28 21.9 8 40.9 22.3 59
Love 3/30 26.6 8 38.8 29.3 62.8
Bosh 4/1 25.7 4 20 19.6 58.3

Total (per 36) 12.0 37.9% 21.8 59.3%


On the whole, with Garnett as their primary defender their scoring volume is cut in HALF with a more than 20% drop in scoring efficiency compared to what they were doing coming into the game. That's unheard of!

[ArbitraryWater]

Better than Duncan, worse franchise. Will be missed.

lol

Not even close to him as a playoff performer. Duncan could carry the scoring load when needed. KG was an abysmal volume scorer (for ATG's).

[Pointguard]

Some more from that article.

The Heat shot 38% with KG on the floor, 85% with KG on the bench....yes you read that right, 85%.

Later that night I saw that corroborated on TV, when NBA TV reported the same numbers (except the Heat actually shot ONLY 84% when KG was on the bench)... .

So, I went on over to basketballvalue.com and checked out the results through 17 playoffs games...

The Celtics' defense is allowing 89.72 points/100 possessions when Garnett is on the court (the #1 mark in the NBA)
The Celtics' defense is allowing 122.44 points/100 possessions when Garnett is off the court (the absolute worst mark in the NBA)

In short, the Celtics' defense is 32.7 points better with Garnett on the floor this postseason than with him off through 17 games and almost 650 minutes on-court. Not only that, but if you follow that link you'll see that it's Garnett and only Garnett that keys the defense. Sometimes with net on/off team ratings you run into a case where there's just a dominant unit and everyone on that unit has great and similar ratings. Not here.

Basketball-reference has +/- data back to 2007, and before that I used to peruse 82games.com regularly for seasons back to 2002. In that decade of seasons, I've never heard of ANYONE having an on/off defensive +/- through at least the Conference Finals as large as Garnett's (the only one even close that I can think of is Ben Wallace in '04, whose on/off was up around 28 I believe).

I've never heard of ANYONE being the difference between a team having the #1 rated defense and the dead-last rated defense in the playoffs.
And I've never heard of ANYONE having an on/off defensive +/- so completely, absurdly larger than his other teammates.


This was KG way past his prime at 35 years old. If he had a truly defensive minded coach in his prime he would have set several records... .

[SamuraiSWISH]

lol

Not even close to him as a playoff performer. Duncan could carry the scoring load when needed. KG was an abysmal volume scorer (for ATG's).
The defense was distracted by almost no one else in Minnesota. Entirely different context.

[jbryan1984]

What a career. He went hard & strong for so many years. Much respect to KG

[Pointguard]

I remember the Kings series well, especially the game when he had like 32 and 20, something like that? I'm not saying he didnt have the ability, more like the mentality. He just didnt have that innate mindset that some of the truly great scorers had. His defensive versatility was off the charts though.
I think if he had more structure, he would have been better in those situations. He outscored Pierce and Allen in the championship run as well. Pierce was an all time great in the clutch as was Allen so it made sense to use them that way. In the link I provided KG took as many clutch shots over the decade as Duncan did and was fifth in accuracy of all players.

Nor were there playoff series where Sprewell or Cassell took over more games than KG or played better offensively than KG.

[Pointguard]

lol

Not even close to him as a playoff performer. Duncan could carry the scoring load when needed. KG was an abysmal volume scorer (for ATG's).
He scored better than two top ten GOATs and both of them are top five. So he's not abysmal by any stretch of the imagination.

[StephHamann]

He changed the NBA forever by forcefully forming the first super team.

[Harison]

I hoped KG will come back for one more season to mentor young wolves, and then retire after a bang in the Playoffs. But father time gets everyone, and he retired with class.

Truly the most versatile and passionate big man of All-time, sad to see the end of an era. I doubt there was ever such a year when big names like Duncan, Kobe and KG retiring at the same time.

[Harison]

True, but I don't think KG had that alpha scoring ability needed to take a winning/decent team to championships without the closers around them.

Pierce and Ray are among the best closers ever, right? Then you will be glad to find out, KG in 2008 Championship run was much, MUCH better closer than Pierce or Ray.

Also some fans dont understand team-based mentality, they think if player is shot-jocking through the hands of 5 defenders means he is alpha, and passing to teammate in much better position means beta. Nothing could be further from the truth, there is intelligent basketball, and there is selfish play.


In his best season in Minny, the 2004 MVP year, Sprewell and Cassell were the ones doing alot of the clutch shot-taking. In Boston, it was Pierce and Allen. He just wasn't that kind of guy who could carry a great team offensively, who you could just throw the ball to and get the **** out the way. Not consistently, anyway...

You mean when guy wins championship by scoring the most points in the team in the Playoffs and being by far the best closer on the team shows... he cant carry the team offensively? I havent even mentioned KG's All-time great passing ability, which is a big part of offense too.

Also you will be happy to know, KG in his prime shot like 30% more in the clutch than Duncan did. Care to make an argument that TD wasnt taking shots in the clutch? :lol Ridiculous misconceptions about KG never seem to die.

[Detroit]

Gonna miss this tough fake guy being tough

[Lebron23]

One of most versatile players in NBA History.

[highwhey]

1995 = the year Kevin Garnett was an NBA rookie
1995 = the year Karl-Anthony Towns was born
1995= the last time ISH was updated

[Kool Boy]

Source?

[Nikola_]

http://s14.postimg.org/uu1i1paup/Ihpnhb_I.gif

[WallIn]

Good luck in retirement.

[ArbitraryWater]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtEV94qUsAEUVEd.jpg

gawd damn

[rmt]

Pierce and Ray are among the best closers ever, right? Then you will be glad to find out, KG in 2008 Championship run was much, MUCH better closer than Pierce or Ray.

Also some fans dont understand team-based mentality, they think if player is shot-jocking through the hands of 5 defenders means he is alpha, and passing to teammate in much better position means beta. Nothing could be further from the truth, there is intelligent basketball, and there is selfish play.



You mean when guy wins championship by scoring the most points in the team in the Playoffs and being by far the best closer on the team shows... he cant carry the team offensively? I havent even mentioned KG's All-time great passing ability, which is a big part of offense too.

Also you will be happy to know, KG in his prime shot like 30% more in the clutch than Duncan did. Care to make an argument that TD wasnt taking shots in the clutch? :lol Ridiculous misconceptions about KG never seem to die.

I guess you're referring to your clutch chart that leaves off 1997-2002/3? (you know, like 5-6 years of Duncan's prime).

[Dragonyeuw]

Pierce and Ray are among the best closers ever, right? Then you will be glad to find out, KG in 2008 Championship run was much, MUCH better closer than Pierce or Ray.




2008 NBA finals:

Paul Pierce 21.8 on 59% TS
Ray Allen 20.3 on 70% TS
Kevin Garnett 18.2 on 47% TS

Pierce was with Garnett every step of the way through the playoffs offensively, and the finals stats speak for themselves. But if you want to call that carrying the offense or being a much better closer, more power to you.

[ISHGoat]

Gonna miss this tough fake guy being tough

Yeah well Charlie Villenueva won't.

[$LakerGold]

I actually sorta forgot about the KG-Charlie V beef. What started it (in other words, what the f did KG say to Charlie V)?

[Hey Yo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtTXr11XgAAlI_1.jpg

[Pointguard]

2008 NBA finals:

Paul Pierce 21.8 on 59% TS
Ray Allen 20.3 on 70% TS
Kevin Garnett 18.2 on 47% TS

Pierce was with Garnett every step of the way through the playoffs offensively, and the finals stats speak for themselves. But if you want to call that carrying the offense or being a much better closer, more power to you.
Interesting. Do you think Dirk carried the offense in either of his finals?

[ArbitraryWater]

Interesting. Do you think Dirk carried the offense in either of his finals?

Dirk averaged 26 ppg on 42% FG 54% TS, but the series is largely altered by his game 4 flu game.... outside of the flu game he shot 43.4% FG 55% TS, with advanced stats as these:

With Dirk on the floor:
Mavs .94 ppp - Heat .91 PPP

Without Dirk on the floor:
Mavs .48 PPP - Heat 1.26 PPP

[Pointguard]

Dirk averaged 26 ppg on 42% FG 54% TS, but the series is largely altered by his game 4 flu game.... outside of the flu game he shot 43.4% FG 55% TS, with advanced stats as these:

With Dirk on the floor:
Mavs .94 ppp - Heat .91 PPP

Without Dirk on the floor:
Mavs .48 PPP - Heat 1.26 PPP Doesn't matter he played with Terry a whole lot.

The TS% which is what the poster used, was inferior to Terry's. And in the last four games of each finals, the discrepancy was huge in both finals. And Terry was very close in point production as well.

[ArbitraryWater]

Doesn't matter he played with Terry a whole lot.

The TS% which is what the poster used, was inferior to Terry's. And in the last four games of each finals, the discrepancy was huge in both finals. And Terry was very close in point production as well.

thanks for nitpicking the last 4 games lol, I was only refering to '11 anyway (flu game). Just because Terry had a high TS% himself, doesnt mean Dirk didnt carry the offense. He's the catalyst of it all.

[Dragonyeuw]

Interesting. Do you think Dirk carried the offense in either of his finals?

I'm sorry, I don't recall saying that he did, nor do I understand WTF that has do with my earlier post.

[aj1987]

Dirk averaged 26 ppg on 42% FG 54% TS, but the series is largely altered by his game 4 flu game.... outside of the flu game he shot 43.4% FG 55% TS, with advanced stats as these:

With Dirk on the floor:
Mavs .94 ppp - Heat .91 PPP

Without Dirk on the floor:
Mavs .48 PPP - Heat 1.26 PPP
That is because he predominantly played with the starting lineup and the best defenders on his team. :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Pointguard]

I'm sorry, I don't recall saying that he did, nor do I understand WTF that has do with my earlier post.
To be honest with you, I don't think you know a lot of the words you choose. In particular, you misused alpha now I'm seeing what you mean by "carry."

[bizil]

Among the top ten GOAT type PF's KG was the ONLY ONE who may have been pass first. When u look at KG's style of play, he looked to facilitate to start with. Hell he LITERALLY played point forward at times bringing up the rock. And he even played a ton of SF early in his career.

AND THEN he would get his 23-24 points a night with it. I NOTICED that KG would get more aggressive when it was time though. When he hit his mid 20's and ESPECIALLY in his epic MVP year, this was becoming apparent. Look at last three Minny playoff runs for proof.

But FRANKLY it's MORE COMMON to find pass first perimeter players who can be great scorers when its time. U have Bron, Big O, Magic, Isiah, CP3, Frazier, Payton, etc. Among big guys, KG is the ONLY ONE I can name off the top of my head who is more pass first but can be a great scorer. So I think it throws off people's judgement at times when looking at his scoring ability. It's best to view Ticket as a pass first player who ALSO had enough scoring ability to finish 3rd in the league in scoring in given years. AND finish with over 26,000 career points!

[Dragonyeuw]

To be honest with you, I don't think you know a lot of the words you choose. In particular, you misused alpha now I'm seeing what you mean by "carry."

Ah I see, I'm glad you're here to clear up how it should be used. Especially curious, upon your contention that Garnett was an alpha rebounder 3 or 4 times. Whatever the **** that means and more importantly, its complete irrelevance to the ongoing discussion about scoring.

[Pointguard]

thanks for nitpicking the last 4 games lol, I was only refering to '11 anyway (flu game). Just because Terry had a high TS% himself, doesnt mean Dirk didnt carry the offense. He's the catalyst of it all.

Yes, I like the words catalyst for it all because KG was that in 2008. The ball went into him and the offense sprang from there.

The last 4 games were the critical games - the first two didn't mean much at all in either series. You lames never give Terry credit for being super clutch. In critical games and in finishing up the series he's stellar. In 2011 the team went as Terry went: in the four wins Terry shot 30 for 24 for 555 FG%. while Dirk was 34/86 or 39%.

In general Terry shot better than Dirk from the line, from the field and from three point line in the clutch. If you guys hype up TS% so much why is there never talk of Terry? He shot 605 TS percentage for the whole series while Dirk shot 537 TS%. And Dirk guys use TS% aaaalllll the time. Why isn't Terry hyped up more.

In the previous finals overall, both score 22ppg (Dirk closer to 23ppg) but Terry has an advantage in TS% EFG% and FG% just as he did overall in 2011. Yet we never hear about Terry.

[Pointguard]

Ah I see, I'm glad you're here to clear up how it should be used. Especially curious, upon your contention that Garnett was an alpha rebounder 3 or 4 times. Whatever the **** that means and more importantly, its complete irrelevance to the ongoing discussion about scoring.
Alpha means you are the best at it in the league. There is only one Alpha. I think Malone might have been the only scoring leader of the PF's. Ironically KG is the only one of the others that was top three in scoring.

[Dragonyeuw]

Alpha means you are the best at it in the league. There is only one Alpha. I think Malone might have been the only scoring leader of the PF's. Ironically KG is the only one of the others that was top three in scoring.

So basically what you're saying is, the 'alpha' scorer in any given season or time would be the scoring champion. Of course, applying the term alpha like that in this discussion, or a basketball discussion in general, is bordering on silly, right as you may be about the literal meaning of the word. Especially because you're smart enough, clearly, to understand the context in which that term is being used here. As for KG being third in scoring, I guess it was good for him that year( 2004) that the top scorer put up 28, and the #2 put up 24. Not the highest of bars to clear compared to other years. Wouldn't do for him to post that average in 89, when Barkley's 28.3 ppg was only good for 4th, or Karl Malone coming second to MJ on 2-3 occasions putting up 29ppg. So clarity on 'KG is the only one of the others' in top 3 scoring would be nice. Michael Jordan was the only person stopping Karl Malone from being at least a 3 time scoring champion. All of the others, Dirk averaging 26+ a few times and Duncan 25+ppg in one of his MVP seasons, while not meeting the arbitrary mark of 'top 3' scorer that year, were more than KG ever sniffed.

But let's not waste time. We'll play this your way. Substitute the term 'alpha' with whatever phrase you feel more suitably applies to what is being discussed in terms of scoring ability. Premium scorer? Prime-time scorer? Whatever term suits your fancy, compared to guys like Dirk, Malone, Barkley, Duncan, in the playoffs....for the most part... he wasn't quite to that standard across his playoff career. Does his prime regular season stats match up nicely to those others? Sure. Playoffs particularly in the scoring dept outside a few runs? Not so much. Still a great player, regardless, as much as you're acting as though I'm calling him a scrub.

[Pointguard]

So basically what you're saying is, the 'alpha' scorer in any given season or time would be the scoring champion. Of course, applying the term alpha like that in this discussion, or a basketball discussion in general, is bordering on silly, right as you may be about the literal meaning of the word. Especially because you're smart enough, clearly, to understand the context in which that term is being used here.
No. I don't understand how you use it. Its somehow related to less than one basket per game in the mid 20's to you. When I try to show you that statistically it isn't true, you don't respond. So I don't know what you are talking about. And it's fair, because you don't respond.

Alpha is just a testosterone loaded phrase that's never used correctly.



As for KG being third in scoring, I guess it was good for him that year( 2004) that the top scorer put up 28, and the #2 put up 24. Not the highest of bars to clear compared to other years. Wouldn't do for him to post that average in 89, when Barkley's 28.3 ppg was only good for 4th, or Karl Malone coming second to MJ on 2-3 occasions putting up 29ppg. So clarity on 'KG is the only one of the others' in top 3 scoring would be nice. Michael Jordan was the only person stopping Karl Malone from being at least a 3 time scoring champion. All of the others, Dirk averaging 26+ a few times and Duncan 25+ppg in one of his MVP seasons, while not meeting the arbitrary mark of 'top 3' scorer that year, were more than KG ever sniffed.

We are in another thread talking about Karl Malone. His scoring to me was a level above the other PF's. His scoring is a marvel. Top three is a relative term. 28 ppg one year isn't the same in another year. But that's ok. I'm not claiming he was superior in scoring. I said "IRONICALLY" not as a point arguing KG's scoring prowess.


But let's not waste time. We'll play this your way. Substitute the term 'alpha' with whatever phrase you feel more suitably applies to what is being discussed in terms of scoring ability. Premium scorer? Prime-time scorer? Whatever term suits your fancy, compared to guys like Dirk, Malone, Barkley, Duncan, in the playoffs....for the most part... he wasn't quite to that standard. In no way does that lessen him as a player, especially how great he was across the board.

I don't have Malone in the tier of scorers as the rest. I guess you could have Dirk and Barkley above KG and Duncan if you draw a fine line. But I don't doubt that KG and Duncan could have scored like Barkley and Dirk did. But they have lead their teams in rebounds, scoring, steals, blocks, and assist as well as being the defensive anchors - it was just a matter of priorities. They are one basket away from Barkley and Dirk. Its ludicrous to say all of that wouldn't transfer to one basket per game.

[Hey Yo]

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