There's a HUGE gap in greatness between Jordan and Lebron

[toprange]

Jordan's rings and fmvps are legitimate. He did not jump ship and collude with stars to join together to take over an entire conference and win championships. Lebron has his stats but the TRUTH is that RINGS matter and Lebron has ZERO legitimate rings

[swagga]

Jordan's rings and fmvps are legitimate. He did not jump ship and collude with stars to join together to take over an entire conference and win championships. Lebron has his stats but the TRUTH is that RINGS matter and Lebron has ZERO legitimate rings

such a novel take on basketball :applause:

[Lebron23]

Now i remember why I put this clown in my ignore lists.

[Steven Kerry]

Such an original, well thought post. Bravo OP.

http://i.imgur.com/8NAub.gif

[Trollsmasher]

Jordan = 0 rings without another TOP 25 player of all time:confusedshrug:

who is talking about collusion now?:lol

[Mr Feeny]

I'm guessing 30, 11, 8, 3, 3 don't constitute a legit fmvp. Ok:rockon: :rockon:

[toprange]

I'm guessing 30, 11, 8, 3, 3 don't constitute a legit fmvp. Ok:rockon: :rockon:

its like an allstar mvp, one of the allstars has to get it and it is not really something to boast about

[Lebron23]

its like an allstar mvp, one of the allstars has to get it and it is not really something to boast about


Kobetarded logic.

[Nilocon165]

its like an allstar mvp, one of the allstars has to get it and it is not really something to boast about
What the **** is wrong with you?

Don't post on basketball forums if you have such little knowledge about the game itself

[SouBeachTalents]

Another soul taken by LeBron

[toprange]

What the **** is wrong with you?

Don't post on basketball forums if you have such little knowledge about the game itself
Does the TRUTH hurt? You will always be reminded that lebron jumped ship and colluded with stars to take over an entire conference and win championships. It is a clear sign of WEAKNESS not greatness.

[SouBeachTalents]

Does the TRUTH hurt? You will always be reminded that lebron jumped ship and colluded with stars to take over an entire conference and win championships. It is a clear sign of WEAKNESS not greatness.

You should just post this on your stalkerforlife account

[Mr Feeny]

its like an allstar mvp, one of the allstars has to get it and it is not really something to boast about

These Kobetards used to atleast by creative or funny with trolling. Once lebron won the 2016 chip, they've just been shells of themselves. You can sense the dejection:lol

It's sad.

[I know you are]

I'm guessing 30, 11, 8, 3, 3 don't constitute a legit fmvp. Ok:rockon: :rockon:
The stats were legit. The wins were not.

[Mr Feeny]

The stats were legit. The wins were not.

Why?

[toprange]

The stats were legit. The wins were not.
Its like cheating on a test, getting an A+ and boasting that you are the smartest guy ever. Clowns will be clowns

[Mr Feeny]

Its like cheating on a test, getting an A+ and boasting that you are the smartest guy ever. Clowns will be clowns

Tbf the "clown" had more 40 point finals games in 3 days than your idol had in 20 years :D

[toprange]

Who cares if the cheater got an A+. He cheated!!

[Hey Yo]

Its like cheating on a test, getting an A+ and boasting that you are the smartest guy ever. Clowns will be clowns
That's why you're banned and using that alt.

[toprange]

How dumb do you have to be to know someone cheated to get an A+ but you nominate him for valedictorian

[ShawkFactory]

How dumb do you have to be to know someone cheated to get an A+ but you nominate him for valedictorian
You're SO torn apart :lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Disregarding the OP's awful post, LeBron really isn't all that far off. I have in my top 5 and the reality is he can be argued as high as top 3. Dude still has a great squad in Cleveland, and with Kyrie hitting his peak soon, you would have to imagine they'll be contenders for a sustained period of time.

I can definitely see LeBron winning another title or two along with a few more MVPs. After all he's still the best player in the world.

[toprange]

Disregarding the OP's awful post, LeBron really isn't all that far off. I have in my top 5 and the reality is he can be argued as high as top 3. Dude still has a great squad in Cleveland, and with Kyrie hitting his peak soon, you would have to imagine they'll be contenders for a sustained period of time.

I can definitely see LeBron winning another title or two along with a few more MVPs. After all he's still the best player in the world.
And you can also see Lance Armstrong winning another race. I guess you watch the nba for entertainment purposes only. Like the allstars

[ShawkFactory]

And you can also see Lance Armstrong winning another race. I guess you watch the nba for entertainment purposes only. Like the allstars
:biggums:

Isn't that like...why professional sports are televised?

[SouBeachTalents]

:biggums:

Isn't that like...why professional sports are televised?

:roll: OP is a fuccing retard

[toprange]

:biggums:

Isn't that like...why professional sports are televised?
Believe it or not there are other things to learn from watching professional sports but then again you are a lebron fan so I expect you to only see it as entertainment. There's not a lot to learn when you are watching a player jump ship and join the best players in the league so that he can win championship

[AirBonner]

Believe it or not there are other things to learn from watching professional sports but then again you are a lebron fan so I expect you to only see it as entertainment. There's not a lot to learn when you are watching a player jump ship and join the best players in the league so that he can win championship
You are a dumb ****.

[toprange]

You are a dumb ****.
And you have no real skills in anything to understand what it takes to be great in something. Thats why you see a guy who gives up shots because he has no skills outside of 3ft from the rim as a hero

[Sarcastic]

Jordan = 0 rings without another TOP 25 player of all time:confusedshrug:

who is talking about collusion now?:lol

Wade >>> Pippen.

[AirBonner]

And you have no real skills in anything to understand what it takes to be great in something. Thats why you see a guy who gives up shots because he has no skills outside of 3ft from the rim as a hero
How amazing Legoat is. He gives up so many shots and yet averages more points than brickbe in the regular season and finals on better efficiency. No skills indeed.

[SouBeachTalents]

Wade >>> Pippen.

Not '13 & '14 Wade. Even '12 Wade is comparable with Pippen

[ShawkFactory]

Believe it or not there are other things to learn from watching professional sports but then again you are a lebron fan so I expect you to only see it as entertainment. There's not a lot to learn when you are watching a player jump ship and join the best players in the league so that he can win championship
I learn things by reading books and from people I actually interact with in real life.

And here's a little tip...just something I've learned: saying things a bunch of times over and over doesn't make them any more true.

[toprange]

I learn things by reading books and from people I actually interact with in real life.

And here's a little tip...just something I've learned: saying things a bunch of times over and over doesn't make them any more true.
And I am guessing you don't see any correlation between real life and what you see in professional sports. That is because you are limited and have to settle with a dumbed up version of the nba

[ShawkFactory]

And I am guessing you don't see any correlation between real life and what you see in professional sports. That is because you are limited and have to settle with a dumbed up version of the nba
ok

[SouBeachTalents]

ok

Lol, don't even waste your time. Dude is a retarded neanderthal LeBron hater, who no matter what LeBron accomplishes will never give him his due. Let him be in the vast minority opinion and believe what he wants, his opinion doesn't have any merit anyway

[Sarcastic]

Not '13 & '14 Wade. Even '12 Wade is comparable with Pippen

Wade is a top 30 player, maybe top 25 player all time. Pippen is not.

[SouBeachTalents]

Wade is a top 30 player, maybe top 25 player all time. Pippen is not.

Prime/peak Wade was clearly better than Pippen, and imo is a top 20-25 player of all time. The problem is the Wade that LeBron played with was not that same player, he regressed every single season and was a shell of himself the majority of the 2013 playoffs and played like a legit bum in the 2014 Finals

[toprange]

Prime/peak Wade was clearly better than Pippen, and imo is a top 20-25 player of all time. The problem is the Wade that LeBron played with was not that same player, he regressed every single season and was a shell of himself the majority of the 2013 playoffs and played like a legit bum in the 2014 Finals
Prime Wade was better than lebron ever was. He won a ring in 2006 without needing to join up with multiple stars which is far greater than anything lebron has done

[FKAri]

And I am guessing you don't see any correlation between real life and what you see in professional sports. That is because you are limited and have to settle with a dumbed up version of the nba
Sports like any competition can be a metaphor for life. What you're doing, however, is living vicariously and treating it like a soap opera. You're broken down because a man put a ball through your designated hoop one too many times.

Calm down and move on. The next season of your soap opera will be starting soon and there will be a new hero for you to cheer on. Make sure you buy his uniform, put his name on your back, buy tickets, and financially support him in playing a schoolyard game while you reflect on how all this correlates with your life.

[ArbitraryWater]

There's also a HUGE gap between OP legs.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[ArbitraryWater]

Wade is a top 30 player, maybe top 25 player all time. Pippen is not.

You just feel Sarcastic nor this stupid, he knows this Wade wasn't the one LeBron played with anymore, you can feel him blocking logic out but knowing he's bullshitting himself.

[toprange]

Sports like any competition can be a metaphor for life. What you're doing, however, is living vicariously and treating it like a soap opera. You're broken down because a man put a ball through your designated hoop one too many times.

Calm down and move on. The next season of your soap opera will be starting soon and there will be a new hero for you to cheer on. Make sure you buy his uniform, put his name on your back, buy tickets, and financially support him in playing a schoolyard game while you reflect on how all this correlates with your life.
I am only calling a cheater a cheater. Yes he got the A+. But he cheated. Nothing to boast about. The problem now is you accepting cheaters has hurt the game. Now players don't want to beat other players. They want to join them

[Kvnzhangyay]

I am only calling a cheater a cheater. Yes he got the A+. But he cheated. Nothing to boast about. The problem now is you accepting cheaters has hurt the game. Now players don't want to beat other players. They want to join them

Actually cheating only shows greatness because he can get away with it

In addition, Lebron jumping ships and winning a ring is more impressive than if he didn't and won a ring like MJ and wade, because he was brave enough to win in the face of scrutiny from the public and media. MJ and Wade wallowed under the pressure and were too afraid to switch teams.

For that, I commend Kobe for being brave enough to ask to switch teams.

[Sarcastic]

Prime/peak Wade was clearly better than Pippen, and imo is a top 20-25 player of all time. The problem is the Wade that LeBron played with was not that same player, he regressed every single season and was a shell of himself the majority of the 2013 playoffs and played like a legit bum in the 2014 Finals


2011 and 2012 are better than any version of Pippen ever. 2013 and 2104 he clearly regressed, and was about the level of 1997 & 1998 Pippen.

Regardless, Wade is a superior player to Pippen, and Pippen is not a top 25 player all time.

[SouBeachTalents]

2011 and 2012 are better than any version of Pippen ever. 2013 and 2104 he clearly regressed, and was about the level of 1997 & 1998 Pippen.

Regardless, Wade is a superior player to Pippen, and Pippen is not a top 25 player all time.

2012 Wade and first 3peat Pippen are pretty close imo

[ArbitraryWater]

2011 and 2012 are better than any version of Pippen ever. 2013 and 2104 he clearly regressed, and was about the level of 1997 & 1998 Pippen.

Regardless, Wade is a superior player to Pippen, and Pippen is not a top 25 player all time.

:biggums:

[Sarcastic]

:biggums:


2012 Wade put up 22.1 ppg, which would be Pippen's career high. Do you think he lost all his superior talent to Pippen because he was slightly injured?

[fourkicks44]

2012 Wade put up 22.1 ppg, which would be Pippen's career high. Do you think he lost all his superior talent to Pippen because he was slightly injured?

Lebron stans and their alts getting schooled by Sarcastic yet again. Seems like a daily occurrence around here these days.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Lebron stans and their alts getting schooled by Sarcastic yet again. Seems like a daily occurrence around here these days.

If you're not accounting for defense and playmaking, which made up most of Pippen's impact on the basketball floor, then where was the "schooling" done? Only listing his PPG totals is a dead giveaway that the person doesn't know what they're talking about.

[Sarcastic]

If you're not accounting for defense and playmaking, which made up most of Pippen's impact on the basketball floor, then where was the "schooling" done? Only listing his PPG totals is a dead giveaway that the person doesn't know what they're talking about.


I mean go through all the stats you want. Pippen at his absolute peak (1994) was a 23.2 PER player. Wade at his supposed decline in 2013 was a 24.0 PER player. In 2012 he was a 26.3 PER player. Even in 2014, when he was supposedly completely a shell of his former self he put 22.0 PER, which is better than any full season Pippen had with Jordan.

[ArbitraryWater]

2012 Wade put up 22.1 ppg, which would be Pippen's career high. Do you think he lost all his superior talent to Pippen because he was slightly injured?

Yeah, you dont know shit :oldlol:

[Spurs m8]

You can really tell who was never around in the Jordan days so have no idea what they're taking about lol

[NBAGOAT]

I mean go through all the stats you want. Pippen at his absolute peak (1994) was a 23.2 PER player. Wade at his supposed decline in 2013 was a 24.0 PER player. In 2012 he was a 26.3 PER player. Even in 2014, when he was supposedly completely a shell of his former self he put 22.0 PER, which is better than any full season Pippen had with Jordan.

well i mean PER really doesn't account for defense much which is Pippen's big advantage. WS and bpm aren't that good at measuring defense but at least they do. It's .194ws/48 and 8.3bpm vs .227ws/48 and 6.3bpm. 2014 Wade isn't even close to Pippen with Jordan in the other metrics and I think most would agree at least a couple versions of Pippen are better than 2014 Wade.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I mean go through all the stats you want. Pippen at his absolute peak (1994) was a 23.2 PER player. Wade at his supposed decline in 2013 was a 24.0 PER player. In 2012 he was a 26.3 PER player. Even in 2014, when he was supposedly completely a shell of his former self he put 22.0 PER, which is better than any full season Pippen had with Jordan.

Aside from blocks and steals, you do know PER doesn't measure legit defensive impact...right?

Citing "PER" is worse now that I know you're actually being serious.

[Sarcastic]

well i mean PER really doesn't account for defense much which is Pippen's big advantage. WS and bpm aren't that good at measuring defense but at least they do. It's .194ws/48 and 8.3bpm vs .227ws/48 and 6.3bpm. 2014 Wade isn't even close to Pippen with Jordan in the other metrics and I think most would agree at least a couple versions of Pippen are better than 2014 Wade.


Wade in 2012 and 2013 was still putting up .227 and .192 WS/48.

Pippen in his absolute peak could never touch .227, and .192 is near what he put up for most of his runs.

So in 2011, Lebron had the far far superior player. In 2012, he still had a player that was superior to anything Wade ever was. In 2013, Wade played about the average level that Pippen always did. In 2014, the injuries finally did Wade in, and he was a shell of his former self.

[Sarcastic]

Aside from blocks and steals, you do know PER doesn't measure legit defensive impact...right?

Citing "PER" is worse now that I know you're actually being serious.


PER is a perfectly fine stat to use in this example, since we are comparing the production levels of 2 players. Whatever advantages Pippen had in defense, do not make up for the vastly superior offense abilities that Wade had over him.

[NBAGOAT]

Wade in 2012 and 2013 was still putting up .227 and .192 WS/48.

Pippen in his absolute peak could never touch .227, and .192 is near what he put up for most of his runs.

So in 2011, Lebron had the far far superior player. In 2012, he still had a player that was superior to anything Wade ever was. In 2013, Wade played about the average level that Pippen always did. In 2014, the injuries finally did Wade in, and he was a shell of his former self.

Pippen had 2 years of .209 and .203 during the 2nd 3 peat. The difference between .209 and .227 isn't that big and Pippen's bpm on average is definitely better than 13 Wade. I mean his career bpm is 4.7 while Wade's bpm in 2013 is 4.7, that fact is indisputable. 2012 Wade is not clearly better than prime Pippen either considering he already had injury issues. I'll disagree with what you said earlier in another post. Wade is definitely higher(most likely in the 20-25 range) but pippen has a decent argument for top 30. It's not a big gap even career wise because of longevity.

[Sarcastic]

Pippen had 2 years of .209 and .203 during the 2nd 3 peat. The difference between .209 and .227 isn't that big and Pippen's bpm on average is definitely better than 13 Wade. I mean his career bpm is 4.7 while Wade's bpm in 2013 is 4.7, that fact is indisputable. 2012 Wade is not clearly better than prime Pippen either considering he already had injury issues. I'll disagree with what you said earlier in another post. Wade is definitely higher(most likely in the 20-25 range) but pippen has a decent argument for top 30. It's not a big gap even career wise because of longevity.

It's big enough to show that Wade is the superior player to Pippen all time, and that for 3 of the 4 years he was at Pippen's level or better. 2014 Wade obviously took a step back, but Jordan never had anyone at 2011 Wade level.

What's next, Grant is better than Bosh? Paxon is better than Ray Allen?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

PER is a perfectly fine stat to use in this example, since we are comparing the production levels of 2 players. Whatever advantages Pippen had in defense, do not make up for the vastly superior offense abilities that Wade had over him.

PER is one of the WORST measures of defense, especially for a player like Pippen who had bigman-like impact on that side of the ball.

So no, if you're looking for something more tangible than reading pretty box-scores, like impact for example, your "example" couldn't be worse.

[fourkicks44]

Are Lebron stans trying to convince everybody that Wade was/is trash and that Pippen is a GOAT candidate now?

:roll:

And I thought this forum was starting to get boring, yall do entertain me, that's for sure.

[NBAGOAT]

It's big enough to show that Wade is the superior player to Pippen all time, and that for 3 of the 4 years he was at Pippen's level or better. 2014 Wade obviously took a step back, but Jordan never had anyone at 2011 Wade level.

What's next, Grant is better than Bosh? Paxon is better than Ray Allen?

no for both of those but Grant and Bosh isn't that bad of a comparison. Draymond got some Grant comparisons in 2015 before he became an elite playmaker and I would ask you who is better, 2015 Draymond or Bosh when he was with Lebron.

[Sarcastic]

PER is one of the WORST measures of defense, especially for a player like Pippen who had bigman-like impact on that side of the ball.

So no, if you're looking for something more tangible than reading pretty box-scores, like impact for example, your "example" couldn't be worse.

GTFOH with that shit. No he didn't. He was a good defender but that is pure hyperbole.

[SouBeachTalents]

Are Lebron stans trying to convince everybody that Wade was/is trash and that Pippen is a GOAT candidate now?

:roll:

And I thought this forum was starting to get boring, yall do entertain me, that's for sure.

Yes, that's exactly what's being discussed here, dumbass :lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

GTFOH with that shit. No he didn't. He was a good defender but that is pure hyperbole.

Well that convinced me...

Pippen's x/DRAPM during the Bulls' first 3-peat and in the 1995 season, arguably his greatest defensive year, say otherwise.

You should probably stop peddling your bullshit now. Just saying.

[Sarcastic]

Well that convinced me...

Pippen's x/DRAPM during the Bulls' first 3-peat and in the 1995 season, arguably his greatest defensive year, say otherwise.

You should probably stop peddling your bullshit now. Just saying.


DRAPM can't account for the intimation, and shot changing abilities that a big man can have. Those types of things can't be accounted for in any statistic, and it's those things that are the reason that bigs have historically always won DPOY.

[ShawkFactory]

Are Lebron stans trying to convince everybody that Wade was/is trash and that Pippen is a GOAT candidate now?

:roll:

And I thought this forum was starting to get boring, yall do entertain me, that's for sure.
I feel like you hit your head on things a lot

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

DRAPM can't account for the intimation, and shot changing abilities that a big man can have. Those types of things can't be accounted for in any statistic, and it's those things that are the reason that bigs have historically always won DPOY.

It also uses the LEAST amount of box-score data possible which provides the needed context lost. No stat is 100% accurate, but the former is why xRAPM is the best we have from that era.

At his best Pippen's impact fared well against bigs on the defensive end, both tangibly and statistically.

You haven't posted anything that would suggest otherwise.