Give me one good reason to rank Lebron higher than Duncan and/or Russell

[kurple]

all i need is one

[Orlando Magic]

My personal thoughts aside, since you seem to think there are ZERO...

HE WON A TITLE IN CLEVELAND!

[feyki]

Being fan boy .

[JebronLames]

He won with less help. Nobody in the history of the NBA wins with the 2013 or 2016 teams except for LeGOAT. He hit the dagger in both those game 7's to go along with a big defensive play in toward the end of each game. :bowdown:

[LostCause]

There's absolutely no reason to believe "No one in the history of the NBA' can win a title with the 2016 Cavs except Lebron. In fact, you could argue some others won't even go to 7 games

2013 is also arguably a championship other top talents could've won with said team

[raprap]

I personally don't have him over Russell but


2016 chip for Cleveland. All time great finals performance.

[BigKAT]

Russell won in an 8 team league.

[Paul George 24]

He won with less help. Nobody in the history of the NBA wins with the 2013 or 2016 teams except for LeGOAT. He hit the dagger in both those game 7's to go along with a big defensive play in toward the end of each game. :bowdown:
IRVING SCORE 41 IN GAME 6,NO HELP :lol
LEBRON = DUNCAN'S BITCH

[Big164]

No, he won 11 times in an 8 team league.

And Duncan beat Lebron 11 times in the finals.

[r0drig0lac]

Being fan boy .
:applause:

[GimmeThat]

he's above average in terms of physique for his position

[Lebron23]

Just a better individual player. Averaged more points than them in the playoffs, and NBA Finals.

LeBron never been carried by a teammate in the NBA Finals. Same thing cannot be said about Duncan and Russell.

[BigKAT]

Just a better individual player. Averaged more points than them in the playoffs, and NBA Finals.

LeBron never been carried by a teammate in the NBA Finals. Same thing cannot be said about Duncan and Russell.

True so far.
Lebron at 31 still has not been carried.

Which I'm not sure we can say for Russell/Duncan at 31.

Point is though, we don't know what kind of Kyrie we're going to see in the next 2-3 years. I can see Kyrie becoming the go if Lebron sticks it out with the cavs until the end of his career.

[feyki]

2011 :oldlol:

[BigKAT]

2011 :oldlol:


Good one.
You must be refering to this,

2011: Grizzlies (46-36) over Spurs (61-21), 4-2

Duncan's Averages in the series 12.7PPG

I think that's a wonderful point.
Thank you for your contribution to the discussion.

[Overdrive]

Just a better individual player. Averaged more points than them in the playoffs, and NBA Finals.

LeBron never been carried by a teammate in the NBA Finals. Same thing cannot be said about Duncan and Russell.

Wade carried Lebron in '11. They just failed, but it's not like Lebron didn't put up role player stats in a finals match up.

[feyki]

Good one.
You must be refering to this,

2011: Grizzlies (46-36) over Spurs (61-21), 4-2

Duncan's Averages in the series 12.7PPG

I think that's a wonderful point.
Thank you for your contribution to the discussion.

No .

Don't you said until 31 ?

Lebron carried by Wade and still lost . Duncan carried his team 4 championships and didn't carry until his 30.

[BigKAT]

No .

Don't you said until 31 ?

Lebron carried by Wade and still lost . Duncan carried his team 4 championships and didn't carry until his 30.

I don't know. He got some really good contributions in 05' and 07'.
Sure, not 'Carried' but it wasn't like he was carrying his team.

Lead contributor seems more fitting to me.
But yeah, nothing can erase that 2011 defeat at the hands of the Mavs. Not going to pretend it didn't happen.

I just think that Lebron has had more dominating seasons.

[lilteapot]

Lebron has just as many Finals MVPs as Duncan
Lebron beat a 73-9 team and back to back MVP to win one of those MVPs
Lebron is a better scorer, playmaker and overall better player

[k0kakw0rld]

LeBron 4 MVPs to Duncan's 2? :confusedshrug:

[feyki]

I don't know. He got some really good contributions in 05' and 07'.
Sure, not 'Carried' but it wasn't like he was carrying his team.

Lead contributor seems more fitting to me.
But yeah, nothing can erase that 2011 defeat at the hands of the Mavs. Not going to pretend it didn't happen.

I just think that Lebron has had more dominating seasons.

It's about Duncan's image . Duncan was hiding himself for playoffs since 2005 . He could have been 4-5 times mvp , if he wanted .


Lebron had Wade and Bosh or Irving , who put 30 ppg last three games . Gino or Parker wasn't that great , like Wade or Irving was .

[Spurs5Rings2014]

It's about Duncan's image . Duncan was hiding himself for playoffs since 2005 . He could have been 4-5 times mvp , if he wanted .


Lebron had Wade and Bosh or Irving , who put 30 ppg last three games . Gino or Parker wasn't that great , like Wade or Irving was .

:applause:

I keep telling these dudes. Duncan was team first and only cared about winning. That's why him and Russell are two of the greatest winners to have ever played the game. They didn't care about statpadding and winning meaningless awards. Believe me, if a player that won multiple MVP's over prime Shaq wanted to jack up shots and be 'The Man' at the expense of winning titles, he could of very well done so.

Also, agreed on Manu/Parker not being equivalent to two top 5 PER players in the entire league at their prime (Manu and Parker's primes actually didn't line up with Duncan's as well). Imagine prime Duncan with prime Wade/Bosh.

:eek:

Or prime Kobe. Or prime Pippen. Or prime Magic. Etc. Dude would have more chips than almost any other top 10 if you switched them in each other's situations.

:coleman:

[Big164]

Duncan is 11-5 vs Lebron In Finals

[aj1987]

It's about Duncan's image . Duncan was hiding himself for playoffs since 2005 . He could have been 4-5 times mvp , if he wanted .


Lebron had Wade and Bosh or Irving , who put 30 ppg last three games . Gino or Parker wasn't that great , like Wade or Irving was .
:roll: :roll:

LeBron has had an very good scorer in Irving for ONE PO run. Bosh never even came close to averaging 30 PPG in ANY series EVER.

LeBron has more impact on games than Duncan and it's a fact. Literally every stat and even the eye test proves that. Heck, Duncan won a Finals averaging 15/10. 13/8 in the final 3 games of that series. LeBron needed to score 31/11/9 to win in 7. Shows you how much more help Duncan has.

[WolfGang]

If Lebron played with the Spurs and Greg since 2003 he would have like 5 championships.

[Keno]

lebron is 100x more dominant than both of them combined are.

[fiddy]

Just a better individual player. Averaged more points than them in the playoffs, and NBA Finals.

LeBron never been carried by a teammate in the NBA Finals. Same thing cannot be said about Duncan and Russell.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Big164]

Duncan destroyed not 1 but 2 Dynasties in his career:

Shaq/Kobe's Lakers 2003

Lebron/wade/bosh Heatles 2014

[Bankaii]

Lebron is by far the better individual player of the 3.
That alone should be a good enough reason.

[Bankaii]

It's about Duncan's image . Duncan was hiding himself for playoffs since 2005 . He could have been 4-5 times mvp , if he wanted .


Lebron had Wade and Bosh or Irving , who put 30 ppg last three games . Gino or Parker wasn't that great , like Wade or Irving was .
Your shit posting is getting out of hand.
The sad part is you're a troll but you're actually being serious with this trash.

[aj1987]

Duncan destroyed not 1 but 2 Dynasties in his career:

Shaq/Kobe's Lakers 2003

Lebron/wade/bosh Heatles 2014
Duncan got swept in '01, lost in 5 in '02, and lost in 6 in '04. Somehow, Shaq outplayed Duncan and won the series the very next season, even though Duncan "destroyed" the Lakers' dynasty in '03. Also, the Spurs didn't beat the Lakers till the '13 season, after the '03 victory.

14/10 in '14 in the Finals. :oldlol:

[SamuraiSWISH]

It's become more than obvious even with his nit picked flaws, chokes and failures that individually LeBron is the 2nd greatest player ever. Dominant on both sides of the ball. 28/7/7 for his career. 4x MVPs, 3x Rings, 3x FMVPs, 2x Olympic Medals and a win over arguably the most stacked, and best regular season team of all time. Still just 31 years old ... Yea, to ignore the already standing resume with more to go would make one a basketball moron.

[Milbuck]

He's a better player?

My god imagine Lebron with the Spurs organization building around him and Pop guiding him. Dude would be the far and away GOAT.

[pauk]

My criteria is based on priorities:

#1 Basketball ability, actual talent/skills overall, impact, domination, peak...
#2 Individual accolades, accomplishments, milestones.
#3 Championship runs.... QUALITY > QUANTITY

As far as basketball ability goes... Jordan, Kareem, Lebron, Magic, Bird, Shaq... Hakeem... i think were all more prominent talents... and oh right, Russell / Wilt perhaps, find those extremly tough to rank though as ive never seen them play enough to make an objective, unprejudiced and accurate evaluation.... Man i think even Garnett possessed better basketball ability than Duncan... its funny what team accomplishments / a great system does to a guy... I cant deny him though as he has more accolades than say Garnett. Duncan is in my top 10, but seeing him (and those other dudes in the top 10) play all these years ... and seeing where he is ranked, as much as some people say he is underrated, i think he is more like overrated when you place him over the likes of Magic, Lebron, Bird or Shaq... you can do that, no problem, however i wont do that...

[rmt]

He's a better player?

My god imagine Lebron with the Spurs organization building around him and Pop guiding him. Dude would be the far and away GOAT.

I think you got that backward. Pop and the Spurs organization are great because Duncan has allowed/facilitated them to coach and manage the way they have. Do you really think that Lebron would go to the Spurs and allow them to coach him and acquire who they want? I think he likes being in CLE where he is in total control of the coach, who is signed and can do just about anything he wants.

[ShawkFactory]

Its all about respect. Anyone who respects lebron is a loser
As are several people that don't. Hint hint

[Big164]

Duncan got swept in '01, lost in 5 in '02, and lost in 6 in '04. Somehow, Shaq outplayed Duncan and won the series the very next season, even though Duncan "destroyed" the Lakers' dynasty in '03. Also, the Spurs didn't beat the Lakers till the '13 season, after the '03 victory.

14/10 in '14 in the Finals. :oldlol:
You try beating SHAQ/Kobe on the same team if it so fkin easy.
then beating Lebron/Wade/bosh a decade later as a 40 year old man. His resume is honestly the best ever.

[aj1987]

You try beating SHAQ/Kobe on the same team if it so fkin easy.
Hence why I said Duncan didn't "destroy" the Lakers dynasty.


then beating Lebron/Wade/bosh a decade later as a 40 year old man. His resume is honestly the best ever.
Duncan wasn't even the best player on that team both years, moron. If the Spurs won the series, it would've either been Green or TP who would've walked away with the FMVP. Kawhi was significantly better than Duncan in '14.

[SamuraiSWISH]

His resume is honestly the best ever.
:oldlol:

MJ, Kareem, and LeBron definitely have better resumes.

If anything Duncan is the most overrated. Often by casuals pretending to be knowledgable by picking the soft spoken, non flashy fundamental Center that was labeled a PF to fit a narrative agenda of promotion.

The 2014 Heat were a shell of what they were from '11 to '13. Particularly with Wade's injury. And Duncan wasn't the best player on that team, Kwahi Leonard was ... So what's your point?

Duncan jagged the potential series clinching shot in 2013. No one gives him the hard time they would other legends.

Or the fact he managed to lead a USA team to bronze in the Olympics. Even though ...

Jordan led USA to gold in '84.
Jordan / Barkley led USA to gold in '92.
Barkley / Pippen led USA to gold in '96.
KG / Carter led USA to gold in '00.
Kobe / Wade led USA to gold in '08.
LeBron / KD led USA to gold in '12.
KD / Klay led USA to gold in '16.

If we are being truly honest, KG and Robinson were better than Duncan ever was. As a contemporary at his own position of within his team's franchise. Only difference is neither of those guys had the quality of coaching or roster that benefitted Duncan his entire career.

Dude didn't even win Finals MVP for his final two championships. If that's any other great, we kill them for it.

[Big164]

Aj1987 you need to brush up on the 2003 nba playoffs because you sound like a damned retard.

Kawahi Leonard wasn't on the Spurs back then.

[rmt]

Hence why I said Duncan didn't "destroy" the Lakers dynasty.


Duncan wasn't even the best player on that team both years, moron. If the Spurs won the series, it would've either been Green or TP who would've walked away with the FMVP. Kawhi was significantly better than Duncan in '14.

Your memory is very faulty especially if you think that Duncan wasn't the best player in 2003.

2013-14 Regular season
Parker 16.7 pts 5.7 asst
Duncan 15.1 pts 9.7 rebs 3 asst 1.9 blks
Leonard 12.8 pts 6.2 rebs 2 asst 1.7 stl

2014 Playoffs
Parker 17.4 pts 4.8 asst
Duncan 16.3 pts 9.2 rebs 2 asst 1.3 blk
Leonard 14.3 pts 6.7 rebs 1.7 asst 1.7 stl

2014 Finals
Parker 18 pts 4.6 asst
Duncan 15.4 pts 10 rebs 2 asst
Leonard 17.8 pts 6.4 rebs 2 asst
Green 9.2 pts 2 rebs 2 stl

[tpols]

Dude didn't even win Finals MVP for his final two championships. If that's any other great, we kill them for it.

kareem only won FMVP for 2 out of 6 of his championships .. magic lost out to guys, larry bird lost out .. nobody seems to give them any hard times. Kobe gets a hard time, and i'm sure bron would if he had it happen as well, but thats because of the current state of this forum i guess. For older legends nobody cares about that stuff.. because it has happened to many outside tim duncan.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Finals MVP is usually relevant.

It generally tells you who was the best player on a championship team, apart from a few outlier seasons here and there. It gets swept under the rug for Kareem and Magic too.

The light is shined bright on Kobe for it. And deservedly so, Shaq was the best player on those early 2000 Laker teams, yet with advent of message boards ... The earliest Kobe stans used those championships as reasons to prop him up over peers.

Anyway, there are players with better resume. 3 or 4 of them definitively. And if we are talking about actual basketball ability, there is some guys who can legit be argued as being better players.

Duncan wasn't even better compared to KG. Let alone guys like Hakeem, etc.

[Milbuck]

I think you got that backward. Pop and the Spurs organization are great because Duncan has allowed/facilitated them to coach and manage the way they have. Do you really think that Lebron would go to the Spurs and allow them to coach him and acquire who they want? I think he likes being in CLE where he is in total control of the coach, who is signed and can do just about anything he wants.If he was drafted to the Spurs? Yeah I do.

Lebron had ridiculous hype to his name from such a young age, when you're getting national coverage and praise as the next GOAT at 16, it's going to mess with your perspective.

The thing was that in Cleveland, for 7 years straight he was given garbage to work with offensively...which IMO brought up two main problems...1) it gave him free rein to do whatever he wanted on court, which led to him being an excessively independent player, and 2) it pissed him off to the point of wanting complete control over his future from then on, which led to friction in Miami and is now obvious now in Cleveland again.

You put an 18 year old Lebron on San Antonio under Pop and re-build his personality from the ground up, and build smart teams around him and I doubt you're dealing with any of the control freak issues he might be posing now.

[Megabox!]

I always laugh when ppl give Duncan full credit for beating the Cavs in 07 and The Heat in 14' like he absolutely dominated Lebron's teams in those series or something. He wasn't even the best player on the floor during those finals. Duncan may be the GOAT PF but the dude is kinda overrated

[aj1987]

Aj1987 you need to brush up on the 2003 nba playoffs because you sound like a damned retard.

Kawahi Leonard wasn't on the Spurs back then.
When did I say that? I actually made a thread about Duncan's '03 Finals and his near quad-double in the clinching game. Dude was, without a question, the best player in the world in '03.

How the **** do you get whatever you posted from this statement, when I clearly mentioned the season as well?

Kawhi was significantly better than Duncan in '14.

Stop being a little bitch and get back to your main account, troll.


Your memory is very faulty especially if you think that Duncan wasn't the best player in 2003.

Danny Green/TP would've won the FMVP in '13, if the Spurs won the series.

Leonard was without a question the best player on the team in the '14 Finals.

Which of those two statements aren't correct? I never even brought up the '03 PO's.