ISH Vote: #4 Player in NBA History (2016 ISH GOAT List)

[RRR3]

http://media.cleveland.com/plain-dealer/photo/2015/01/25/16858037-standard.jpg

LeBron James was voted the 3rd greatest player in NBA history by ISH.
ISH Vote: #3 Player in NBA History (http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416705)




Time for number 4.


Rules


1. First player to 20 votes wins. Assuming no player reaches 20 votes within 48 hours, the player with the most votes at that time wins, unless there is a tie in which case, voting will be extended another day (and so on).
2. Voters must have at least one thousand posts.
3. Voters may only vote on ONE account. Alts will not be counted.
4. Serious votes only



Voting Tally

Bill Russell- 20 (Nilocon165, Prometheus, GrapeApe, Young X, Dray N Klay, raprap, Fire Colangelo, K Xerxes, MP.Trey, J Shuttlesworth, feyki, Wally450, inclinerator, Mr Feeny, Doranku, aj1987, SexSymbol, Dragonyeuw, Sakkreth, ClipperRevival)

Magic Johnson-10 (scuzzy, Tyler00, LeBron23, Keno, KirbyPls, Im Still Ballin, Bankaii, lilteapot, afrigokcen, Overdrive)

Wilt Chamberlain- 8 (JeBronLames, ShawkFactory, k0kakw0rld, Trollsmasher, NBAGOAT, longhornfan1234, SouBeachTalents, dyna)

Shaquille O'Neal- 3 (InsanityKills, ArbitraryWater, ScalsFan21)










DeSagana Diop- -3 (knicksman, Orlando Magic, lebronxrings[already voted on another account] :no:)

[Nilocon165]

Russell

[Prometheus]

Billard Russer

[knicksman]

You know youre a loser if you respect bran. Winners just doesnt settle for less

[JebronLames]

Ilt

[Nilocon165]

You know youre a loser if you respect bran. Winners just doesnt settle for less
Nice English dumbass:lol

[scuzzy]

Magic

[GrapeApe]

William Felton Russell

[Prometheus]

You know youre a loser if you respect bran. Winners just doesnt settle for less

Feel it seething, burning. Let the hate flow through you. Let it consume you :cheers:

[knicksman]

Feel it seething, burning. Let the hate flow through you. Let it consume you :cheers:

:sleeping the truth hurts

[TomCat]

Russell

[TylerOO]

Magic

[Lebron23]

Magic Johnson

[Young X]

Russell

[ShawkFactory]

Wilt

[Dray n Klay]

Russell

[k0kakw0rld]

http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/786930WiltChamberlain100point.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=786930WiltChamberlain100point.jpg)

[raprap]

Russell

[TheWinningFam]

Russel

[Fire Colangelo]

Russell

[InsanityKills]

Shaq

[K Xerxes]

http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/bill-russell-bored-at-game-7.gif

[MP.Trey]

Bill Russell

[BeastMode24]

kobe

[Lebronxrings]

Magic

[Trollsmasher]

Wilt

[J Shuttlesworth]

Bill Russell

[ScalsFan21]

I'm going with Magic but I thought about going with Larry over any of these guys. I can accept deferring to total accolades when it's as close as it is between those two guys, so I think I give the slight edge to Magic.

[ArbitraryWater]

Shaq you fckers... SHAQ!!

[ScalsFan21]

Shaq you fcktards... SHAQ!!

Actually I agree. I have Shaq 4th usually and somehow forgot about him. :lol

1. Jordan
2/3 are Kareem and LeBron in some order, only thing stopping LeBron is the incomplete career.
4. Shaq
5. Magic
6. Bird

[ArbitraryWater]

Actually I agree. I have Shaq 4th usually and somehow forgot about him. :lol

1. Jordan
2/3 are Kareem and LeBron in some order, only thing stopping LeBron is the incomplete career.
4. Shaq
5. Magic
6. Bird

:applause:

[feyki]

Bill Russell .

[Keno]

magic.

[KirbyPls]

Magic.

[Im Still Ballin]

Magic

[NBAGOAT]

Wilt

[Bankaii]

Magic

[Wally450]

Bill Russell

[lilteapot]

Magic.

[inclinerator]

bill

[Mr Feeny]

Russell.

[Big164]

There are at least 3 players with 3 Finals mvps, with more rings than Lebron. But who cares eh?

This site is crawling with virgins who are prisoners of the moment. I vote Kobe at #4 cuz this whole thing is a farce now.

[arifgokcen]

Magic for me

[Doranku]

Bill Russell

[Im Still Ballin]

It appears Russell will win this round.

[Overdrive]

Magic

[aj1987]

Fmvp.

[JebronLames]

It appears Russell will win this round.
Bad news for Kobe stans. It shows that rings matter a lot yet Kobe is still ranked much lower than LeBron despite having more rings.

Shows that LeBron is so much better than Kobe (not even rings can save him).
Imagine if Kobe didn't luckbox into 5 rings. He wouldn't even be top 20.

[Im Still Ballin]

Bad news for Kobe stans. It shows that rings matter a lot yet Kobe is still ranked much lower than LeBron despite having more rings.

Shows that LeBron is so much better than Kobe (not even rings can save him).
Imagine if Kobe didn't luckbox into 5 rings. He wouldn't even be top 20.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Z5tkhvrxE14/UygmBFxAFxI/AAAAAAAAF2c/5EZsrtK4tCc/s1600/post-38597-Austin-Powers-slow-clapping-gi-biry.gif

[Mr Feeny]

There are at least 3 players with 3 Finals mvps, with more rings than Lebron. But who cares eh?

This site is crawling with virgins who are prisoners of the moment. I vote Kobe at #4 cuz this whole thing is a farce now.

:oldlol: Kobe is atleast 4 tiers below these legends whom you're insulting by mentioning Kobe in the same breath with.
There's MJ with 6 fmvps and Russell from the old era with even more titles as lead dog.
That's it. Then there's Magic, LeBron, Duncan and Shaq in a 4 way tie for most titles as lead dog in 3rd place.
Lebron owns every tiebreaker imaginable with more mvps than all of those and MUCH better statistically than Magic and Duncan while being slightly better than Shaq.

4 MVP's, 3 fmvps, all time leader in VORP, all time win share leader, soon-to-be all time leading playoff scorer and steals leader and top 3 in assists, 2nd in PER only to MJ, best elimination game player in history, best game 7 player in history.

There's no comparison here. He's 5 tiers ahead of your boy Kobe and your other boy Wilt.
There's a reason he's considered a top 3 player while your boys are not! :lebronamazed:

[Orlando Magic]

Allen Iverson.

[SexSymbol]

Bill Russell

It's laughable that we put LeBron over Bill, just laughable, but expected with the amount of stans on this board.

[Mr Feeny]

Bill Russell

It's laughable that we put LeBron over Bill, just laughable, but expected with the amount of stans on this board.

Absolutely not. That's the consensus. Lebron is a top 3 player. Russell may be 4th.
Kobe is no higher than 12th :lebronamazed:

[SexSymbol]

Absolutely not. That's the consensus. Lebron is a top 3 player. Russell may be 4th.
Kobe is no higher than 12th :lebronamazed:
While this is a subjective matter, and some people have Kobe or LeBron or MJ or somedoy else as the best ever, practically anyone in the top 10 has an argument, it still comes down as disrespectful if you just say that's the consensus, when it's just not.
On a forum which is really dominated by the amount of Bron stans and their alts it's surprising that bron is as low as 3rd, thought you guys could do better.

Most of Kobe's fans are adults now and have been for quite a few years, it's no surprise that LeBron gets overhyped in these kinds of polls when the bran family by far has the highest density of children among them.

LeBron has no real argument over Russell, Bird, Magic, Duncan, Shaq or Kobe

[Mr Feeny]

While this is a subjective matter, and some people have Kobe or LeBron or MJ or somedoy else as the best ever, practically anyone in the top 10 has an argument, it still comes down as disrespectful if you just say that's the consensus, when it's just not.
On a forum which is really dominated by the amount of Bron stans and their alts it's surprising that bron is as low as 3rd, thought you guys could do better.

Most of Kobe's fans are adults now and have been for quite a few years, it's no surprise that LeBron gets overhyped in these kinds of polls when the bran family by far has the highest density of children among them.

LeBron has no real argument over Russell, Bird, Magic, Duncan, Shaq or Kobe

http://i63.tinypic.com/evc17c.jpg

[SexSymbol]

http://i63.tinypic.com/evc17c.jpg
weak, yet again.

[Mr Feeny]

weak, yet again.

Indeed he is! That's what I've been trying to teach you :D

:roll: :roll: :banana:

[Prometheus]

While this is a subjective matter, and some people have Kobe or LeBron or MJ or somedoy else as the best ever, practically anyone in the top 10 has an argument, it still comes down as disrespectful if you just say that's the consensus, when it's just not.
On a forum which is really dominated by the amount of Bron stans and their alts it's surprising that bron is as low as 3rd, thought you guys could do better.

Most of Kobe's fans are adults now and have been for quite a few years, it's no surprise that LeBron gets overhyped in these kinds of polls when the bran family by far has the highest density of children among them.

LeBron has no real argument over Russell, Bird, Magic, Duncan, Shaq or Kobe

The things you say make it impossible for you to be taken seriously.

[NBAGOAT]

While this is a subjective matter, and some people have Kobe or LeBron or MJ or somedoy else as the best ever, practically anyone in the top 10 has an argument, it still comes down as disrespectful if you just say that's the consensus, when it's just not.
On a forum which is really dominated by the amount of Bron stans and their alts it's surprising that bron is as low as 3rd, thought you guys could do better.

Most of Kobe's fans are adults now and have been for quite a few years, it's no surprise that LeBron gets overhyped in these kinds of polls when the bran family by far has the highest density of children among them.

LeBron has no real argument over Russell, Bird, Magic, Duncan, Shaq or Kobe

you cant be serious with a contradiction like this. Even a child could spot this. Also, the consensus tht he's top 3 may be pushing it but absolutely true for top 5.

[K Xerxes]

While this is a subjective matter, and some people have Kobe or LeBron or MJ or somedoy else as the best ever, practically anyone in the top 10 has an argument, it still comes down as disrespectful if you just say that's the consensus, when it's just not.
On a forum which is really dominated by the amount of Bron stans and their alts it's surprising that bron is as low as 3rd, thought you guys could do better.

Most of Kobe's fans are adults now and have been for quite a few years, it's no surprise that LeBron gets overhyped in these kinds of polls when the bran family by far has the highest density of children among them.

LeBron has no real argument over Russell, Bird, Magic, Duncan, Shaq or Kobe

Do you realise it is contradictory to say practically anyone in the top 10 has an argument, and then go on to assert that LeBron has no argument over the 6 names you mentioned?

LeBron at least has a case over most of them. He's had 3 dominant championship runs, 4 MVPs, been the overall best player in the world for a considerable period of time, and is great at virtually all aspects of the game (scoring, playmaking and defense). Not to mention he will probably end up with record breaking longevity stats across the board.

As for for best ever, I think only MJ, Wilt, Russell and Kareem have a case depending on the criteria chosen at the moment. MJ for combined level of play and accolades. Wilt for record breaking stats and dominance. Russell for accolades. And Kareem for longevity and level of success across all levels of basketball.

[longhornfan1234]

Wilt.

[ArbitraryWater]

Do you realise it is contradictory to say practically anyone in the top 10 has an argument, and then go on to assert that LeBron has no argument over the 6 names you mentioned?

LeBron at least has a case over most of them. He's had 3 dominant championship runs, 4 MVPs, been the overall best player in the world for a considerable period of time, and is great at virtually all aspects of the game (scoring, playmaking and defense). Not to mention he will probably end up with record breaking longevity stats across the board.

As for for best ever, I think only MJ, Wilt, Russell and Kareem have a case depending on the criteria chosen at the moment. MJ for combined level of play and accolades. Wilt for record breaking stats and dominance. Russell for accolades. And Kareem for longevity and level of success across all levels of basketball.

Only Jordan/James/Jabbar have the story/stats/accolades/play of a GOAT

[Mr Feeny]

Only Jordan/James/Jabbar have the story/stats/accolades/play of a GOATThose are my three as well.

As far as stats go, Wilt was dominant in he regular season but relatively mediocre in the playoffs and finals.
He was an 18 ppg finals scorer and was sub-par offensively during both finals that his teams won. If I'm not mistaken, he wasn't one of the top 5 scorers in either series.

Statistically, MJ is 1st all time in PER and ws/48 while Lebron is the all time vorp and Winshares leader.
Lebron is also 2nd all time in PER behind only Jordan. So if it's about numbers, Lebron s ahead of Wilt as far as I'm concerned. He also has more accolades and will have better longevity. I'm not sure what argument Wilt has apart from regular season stats. Even then, he'd be behind James in career PER.

[K Xerxes]

Only Jordan/James/Jabbar have the story/stats/accolades/play of a GOAT

There's no criteria where James has a case. He's bettered by Jordan in accolades, stats, almost all metrics and level of play. Wilt has better stats. Russell far more accolades. He's not in the conversation despite the rampant stanning some of you are carrying out since his 3rd chip.

[Dragonyeuw]

Russell

[ArbitraryWater]

There's no criteria where James has a case. He's bettered by Jordan in accolades, stats, almost all metrics and level of play. Wilt has better stats. Russell far more accolades. He's not in the conversation despite the rampant stanning some of you are carrying out since his 3rd chip.

He is absolutely right up there in every single metric, advanced statistic, and individual accolades.. every single one.

In fact, he's passing him by... he will crush him in longevity which is where he will match Kareem, the two only lacking MJ in titles as best player (both 3), but having other edges elsewhere...

so by all measures its those three and gap.

[Mr Feeny]

There's no criteria where James has a case. He's bettered by Jordan in accolades, stats, almost all metrics and level of play. Wilt has better stats. Russell far more accolades. He's not in the conversation despite the rampant stanning some of you are carrying out since his 3rd chip.Wilt doesn't. Lebron is 2nd behind MJ in career PER and ahead of wit.

And this isn't a debate when it.reslly counts I. e. the playoffs:oldlol:
The gap is significant in james' favor there. In the finals it's almost comical to mention Wilt's name in the same breath as lebron.

We should also determine what criteria we would like to focus on. In a hypothetical world where Wilt WAS actually better than Lebron statistically, Lebron still has more accolades and longevity.

So which do we value more? There's no wrong answer but just pick one and stick with it.
There's no argument for Wilt being ahead of Lebron after this year's finals.

[Mr Feeny]

He is absolutely right up there in every single metric, advanced statistic, and individual accolades.. every single one.

In fact, he's passing him by... he will crush him in longevity which is where he will match Kareem, the two only lacking MJ in titles as best player (both 3), but having other edges elsewhere...

so by all measures its those three and gap.

Passing him by? He's already comfortably ahead in most meaningful metrics.

[K Xerxes]

He is absolutely right up there in every single metric, advanced statistic, and individual accolades.. every single one.

In fact, he's passing him by... he will crush him in longevity which is where he will match Kareem, the two only lacking MJ in titles as best player (both 3), but having other edges elsewhere...

so by all measures its those three and gap.

You do realise that his career averages and metrics are going to decline from now on? He's past his prime. The only thing he can carry on accumulating is total stats.

MJ's 6 titles as the man, 5 MVPs, dominant playoff stats and performances crush LeBron's resume at the moment. Sorry, it's just not a conversation.

[longhornfan1234]

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. LeBron
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Russell
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Bird
10. Kobe

[K Xerxes]

Wilt doesn't. Lebron is 2nd behind MJ in career PER and ahead of wit.

And this isn't a debate when it.reslly counts I. e. the playoffs:oldlol:
The gap is significant in james' favor there. In the finals it's almost comical to mention Wilt's name in the same breath as lebron.

We should also determine what criteria we would like to focus on. In a hypothetical world where Wilt WAS actually better than Lebron statistically, Lebron still has more accolades and longevity.

So which do we value more? There's no wrong answer but just pick one and stick with it.
There's no argument for Wilt being ahead of Lebron after this year's finals.

There's no point using PER when some of the stats, like blocks, weren't recorded back then. Wilt's PER would likely crush everyone with his ridiculous scoring, efficiency, rebounding and blocked shots. But Lazerrus or one of the old timers probably could make the better case.

And if we're using the playoffs argument, it's equally as comical to compare LeBron to Jordan. Not only does Jordan double LeBron's championships as the man, he's never had playoff failures like LeBron. Never lost HCA once. Never had a dip in production in the playoffs like LeBron's 11, or quit like LeBron 10. It's a no contest, which is why Lebron doesn't belong in the conversation for GOAT.

[Sakkreth]

Russell

[ArbitraryWater]

You do realise that his career averages and metrics are going to decline from now on? He's past his prime. The only thing he can carry on accumulating is total stats.

MJ's 6 titles as the man, 5 MVPs, dominant playoff stats and performances crush LeBron's resume at the moment. Sorry, it's just not a conversation.

It is for most.. you're living in the past.

He is equaling him in the averages of advanced metrics, regular season and playoffs (actually has past him), will crush him in totals/longevity, and make for some insane scoring/assists/rebounds/etc. totals... and then he's in the same MVP area, has the same dominant playoff stats and just as many if not more legacy/legendary games... its like you dont know who youre talking about.

Like I said, MJ's only edge, is the same one he holds over Kareem, titles as best player, one thats clearly attributed to the subpar lack of help Bron/Kareem experienced for many years, and the accumulation of injuries to LeBron's teammates WHILE facing GOAT level teams in the finals...

you have to think it through with context buddy.

MJ's epic stats look something like 33/6/6, Bron's are more 30/10/8.... its absolutely the same ball park, if you like it not.

[ArbitraryWater]

Playoffs Win-Shares Leaders (Career)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... eer_p.html

1. LeBron James 40.12
1. Michael Jordan 39.76
3. Tim Duncan 37.84
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 35.56
5. Magic Johnson 32.63
6. Wilt Chamberlain 31.46
7. Shaquille O'Neal 31.08
8. Kobe Bryant 28.26
9. Bill Russell 27.76
10. Jerry West 26.75

LeBron James and Michael Jordan led the Playoffs in Win Shares 7x (record).

PER (Player Efficiency Rating)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... areer.html

1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.65
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43
4. David Robinson* 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
6. Bob Pettit* 25.37
7. Tim Duncan 25.05
8. Neil Johnston* 24.66
9. Charles Barkley* 24.63
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58

Kareem led in PER 9x and Wilt 8x and MJ 7x and LeBron 6x.


PER/WS/BPM/VORP Rankings All-Time

Kareem: 12/1/10/7
Jordan: 1/4/2/2
LeBron: 2/8/1/1

Postseason

Kareem: 16/4/21/9
Jordan: 1/2/2/2
LeBron: 3/1/1/1

[Mr Feeny]

There's no point using PER when some of the stats, like blocks, weren't recorded back then. Wilt's PER would likely crush everyone with his ridiculous scoring, efficiency, rebounding and blocked shots. But Lazerrus or one of the old timers probably could make the better case.

And if we're using the playoffs argument, it's equally as comical to compare LeBron to Jordan. Not only does Jordan double LeBron's championships as the man, he's never had playoff failures like LeBron. Never lost HCA once. Never had a dip in production in the playoffs like LeBron's 11, or quit like LeBron 10. It's a no contest, which is why Lebron doesn't belong in the conversation for GOAT.

You're attacking an argument I'm not making. Lebron is NOT better than Jordan and I never said he was. If the comparison is to Jordan statistically, he's falling short. That's not what we're arguing. We're debating whether he's a top 3 player.

And he is the 2nd best player statistically in the playoffs (behind Jordan admittedly, which would put him below MJ) but he's ahead of everyone else. Wilt certainly isn't close to Lebron in the playoffs. In the finals, we're talking girl about an 18 ppg scorer who was almost an afterthought on offense and won 2 titles. Lebron has already led 3 title teams as lead dog Nd one while becoming the first player in nba history to lead both finalists in all categories.

Playoffs:
PER : 1- Jordan 2- Lebron
WS /48 : 1- Jordan 2 - Lebron (have to check and confirm this )
VORP : 1- Lebron 2- Jordan
WS : 1- Lebron 2- Jordan.
All time scoring : 1- Jordan and Lebron will be atleast 2nd come this June.

There's something salient. In every meaningful playoff metric or finals metric, Lebron and Jordan stand out ahead for the rest.

So any argument that Wilt is even remotely close to Lebron statistically is asinine in view. You replying saying "yeah but he's behind MJ statistically" means nothing as I already know that. Jordan isn't the comparison. The rest of the contenders for top 3 are.
Lebron s ahead of Wilt, Kareem, and Russell statistically. That's obvious for everyone who cares to look at the accumulation of statistical metrics on hand. He's also led more teams to titles than Wilt and has greater longevity.

[feyki]

Shaq was the most dominant with MJ at early 00's , Kobe was the second best at late 00's and now Lebron is the second best .

Amen is a word , which is uses by jews,muslims,christians after every pray . Where's this come from ? Answer is in the ancient egypt . The Population of Judah worshipping for their king or Pharaoh , who named Amon .

It's totally same thing when looking in the mirror , which is by historian's eye .

[Mr Feeny]

Shaq was the most dominant with MJ at early 00's , Kobe was the second best at late 00's and now Lebron is the second best .

Amen is a word , which is uses by jews,muslims,christians after every pray . Where's this come from ? Answer is in the ancient egypt . The Population of Judah worshipping for their king or Pharaoh , who named Amon .

It's totally same thing when looking in the mirror , which is by historian's eye .

MJ was the most dominant.
Lebron is 2nd only to MJ in dominance.
Shaq is 3rd all time

Kobe is 23rd all time and behind Curry all time. Even 2016 Curry is better than any version of Kobe.

Don't insult the greats by mentioning a 40% finals scorer, a 25% finals game 7 scorer and a 39% elimination game scorer in the same breath as them.

[LAZERUSS]

Those are my three as well.

As far as stats go, Wilt was dominant in he regular season but relatively mediocre in the playoffs and finals.
He was an 18 ppg finals scorer and was sub-par offensively during both finals that his teams won. If I'm not mistaken, he wasn't one of the top 5 scorers in either series.

Statistically, MJ is 1st all time in PER and ws/48 while Lebron is the all time vorp and Winshares leader.
Lebron is also 2nd all time in PER behind only Jordan. So if it's about numbers, Lebron s ahead of Wilt as far as I'm concerned. He also has more accolades and will have better longevity. I'm not sure what argument Wilt has apart from regular season stats. Even then, he'd be behind James in career PER.

Mediocre?

You mean a Chamberlain that had post-season runs of 33 ppg, 35 ppg, 35 ppg, and 37 ppg? A Wilt who had playoff series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg, and 39 ppg? You mean a Chamberlain who hung playoff series on the GOAT Dynasty and GOAT defensive center (and his swarming teammates) of 28 ppg, 29 ppg, 30 ppg, 31 ppg, and 34 ppg? The Wilt who had FOUR 50+ playoff games, and 13 40+ point games (11 of which came in his first 52 playoff games, in his "scoring" seasons)? And the ONLY THREE 50+ "must win" playoff games by a GOAT candidate in NBA history?

The Wilt who played in 29 post-season series, and was NEVER outrebounded by an opposing center (most of which came against HOFers, including Russell, Thurmond, and a peak KAJ) in ANY of them?

The Wilt who ROUTINELY held his opposing HOF centers to WAY below their normal efficiencies? You want examples? Holding Russell to series of .399, .397, .386, and even .358. Or Thurmond to series of .392, .373, and even .343. Or Bellamy, who had shot .541 against the NBA in the regular season, to a .421. Or a peak Kareem, who had shot .577 and .574 against the NBA in his regular seasons, to .481 and .457 (including .414 in the last four games of that series.)

Or the Wilt who routinely put up triple doubles, including two straight triple-double SERIES? His 9.0 apg in the '67 playoff run was, by far, the most ever put up by a center. And none of those included blocked shots...of which he had NUMEROUS KNOWN blocked shots. How many KNOWN blocked shots in the playoffs you ask? Well, thanks to nbastats.net, (and Julizaver), we have Wilt's block totals for 81 of his 160 playoff games. So, roughly half...and he KNOWN 590 blocked shots...which is well ahead of the "official" all-time leader Tim Duncan.

Yep...Wilt was truly a mediocre playoff performer alright.

[Mr Feeny]

Mediocre?

You mean a Chamberlain that had post-season runs of 33 ppg, 35 ppg, 35 ppg, and 37 ppg? A Wilt who had playoff series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg, and 39 ppg? You mean a Chamberlain who hung playoff series on the GOAT Dynasty and GOAT defensive center (and his swarming teammates) of 28 ppg, 29 ppg, 30 ppg, 31 ppg, and 34 ppg? The Wilt who had FOUR 50+ playoff games, and 13 40+ point games (11 of which came in his first 52 playoff games, in his "scoring" seasons)? And the ONLY THREE 50+ "must win" playoff games by a GOAT candidate in NBA history?

The Wilt who played in 29 post-season series, and was NEVER outrebounded by an opposing center (most of which came against HOFers, including Russell, Thurmond, and a peak KAJ) in ANY of them?

The Wilt who ROUTINELY held his opposing HOF centers to WAY below their normal efficiencies? You want examples? Holding Russell to series of .399, .397, .386, and even .358. Or Thurmond to series of .392, .373, and even .343. Or Bellamy, who had shot .541 against the NBA in the regular season, to a .421. Or a peak Kareem, who had shot .577 and .574 against the NBA in his regular seasons, to .481 and .457 (including .414 in the last four games of that series.)

Or the Wilt who routinely put up triple doubles, including two straight triple-double SERIES? His 9.0 apg in the '67 playoff run was, by far, the most ever put up by a center. And none of those included blocked shots...of which he had NUMEROUS KNOWN blocked shots. How many KNOWN blocked shots in the playoffs you ask? Well, thanks to nbastats.net, (and Julizaver), we have Wilt's block totals for 81 of his 160 playoff games. So, roughly half...and he KNOWN 590 blocked shots...which is well ahead of the "official" all-time leader Tim Duncan.

Yep...Wilt was truly a mediocre playoff performer alright.

He most definitely was. He was a career 22 ppg playoff scorer. And an 18 ppg finals scorer.

There's a reason James is the all time vorp leader, all time ws leader, Al time DPM leader in the playoffs while Wilt is nowhere near him.
James is also going to be the all time top scorer barring a miracle.

Don't insult a top 3 player all time by mentioning your scrub of an idol in the same breath. One makes history by leading everyone I everything in finals while the other is a career 18 ppg finals scorer.

[feyki]

MJ was the most dominant.
Lebron is 2nd only to MJ in dominance.
Shaq is 3rd all time

Kobe is 23rd all time and behind Curry all time. Even 2016 Curry is better than any version of Kobe.

Don't insult the greats by mentioning a 40% finals scorer, a 25% finals game 7 scorer and a 39% elimination game scorer in the same breath as them.

I'm talking with history , you talking with PER .

http://www.relatably.com/m/img/goodbye-memes-funny/funny_memes_to_say_goodbye-9.jpg

[Mr Feeny]

I'm talking with history , you talking with PER .

http://www.relatably.com/m/img/goodbye-memes-funny/funny_memes_to_say_goodbye-9.jpg

Talking with history:lol
I have no idea what this even means but history has seen and agrees that historically, Lebron, Jordan and Shaq are the 3 most dominant players and that Kobe is nowhere near any of them:banana:

[Mr Feeny]

Sorry RRR for derailing the thread.
The Kobe stans are melting down because lebron cemented his legacy as a top 3 player all time while their idols are sat several tiers below him :banana:

Anyways. Russell for me.

It should be 1- MJ
2- Kareem
3- Lebron
4- Russell
Imo.

[LAZERUSS]

He most definitely was. He was a career 22 ppg playoff scorer. And an 18 ppg finals scorer.

There's a reason James is the all time vorp leader, all time ws leader, Al time DPM leader in the playoffs while Wilt is nowhere near him.
James is also going to be the all time top scorer barring a miracle.

Don't insult a top 3 player all time by mentioning your scrub of an idol in the same breath. One makes history by leading everyone I everything in finals while the other is a career 18 ppg finals scorer.

Don't insult Wilt with a 3" LeChoke who quit on his teams, choked against inferior competition (being outplayed by a Jason Terry, ...hell even JJ Barea), and was a wimp that he had to be carried off the floor with cramps.

Lebron, is at best, a Top-6 all-time player, and you can forget ESPN's janitor voting that was conducted earlier this year.

[SouBeachTalents]

Wilt

[ArbitraryWater]

Shaq was the most dominant with MJ at early 00's , Kobe was the second best at late 00's and now Lebron is the second best .

Amen is a word , which is uses by jews,muslims,christians after every pray . Where's this come from ? Answer is in the ancient egypt . The Population of Judah worshipping for their king or Pharaoh , who named Amon .

It's totally same thing when looking in the mirror , which is by historian's eye .

can someone translate this? Do you mean he was the second best behind LeBron? Wade was better as well, btw.

[LAZERUSS]

Sorry RRR for derailing the thread.
The Kobe stans are melting down because lebron cemented his legacy as a top 3 player all time while their idols are sat several tiers below him :banana:

Anyways. Russell for me.

It should be 1- MJ
2- Kareem
3- Lebron
4- Russell
Imo.

Kareem? Over Wilt?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Other than FT shooting, there was nothing that KAJ was better at than Chamberlain. And even that stat is misleading. Wilt AVERAGED 432 MADE FTs each season in his career. Kareem? 332 MADE each season.

Scoring, rebounding, passing, defense, shot-blocking. Chamberlain, and by a mile. Hell, a 34-36 year old Wilt was running away from Kareem in the rpg stats. Oh, and a 35-36 year old Wilt was voted first-team all-defense over a PEAK Kareem, as well.

And before you bring up playoff scoring (and Finals scoring....which thanks to MAGIC, Kareem had five extra opportunities)...

A PEAK Kareem faced an aging Thurmond, and a way-past-his-prime Wilt in five playoff series...and averaged 27 ppg on a ...get this... .456 FG%.

Had Kareem played in the 60's, and had to battle Russell's dynasty, then Thurmond, and then a prime Chamberlain, his numbers would have dropped off the cliff.

Furthermore, in the '71 WCF's, a 34 year old Wilt, only a year removed from major knee surgery, and having the worst regular season of his career...statistically outplayed a PEAK Kareem (in fact, he went 3-1-1 in those five H2H games.) He was so great that when he left the floor in the last minute of the clinching game, he received a standing ovation...and the game was played in Milwaukee.

Then, in the '72 WCF's, and despite being heavily outscored by a peak Kareem...by virtually ALL accounts, including the Milwaukee Press, Wilt was deemed to have outplayed Kareem. Time Magazine went so far as to claim that a 35 year old Wilt DECISIVELY OUTPLAYED a 25 year old Kareem.

But let's continue shall we? A PRIME Kareem played in the NBA the entire decade of the 70's. A period of 10 years. In a decade that was arguably the weakest for NBA champions in NBA history (at least the second half of it.) KAJ won ONE ring, and went to TWO Finals. And his one ring was accomplished with one of the easiest runs in NBA history (facing a 41-41 Warrior team in the first round, a 48-34 Laker team without both West and Baylor in the second round...and being outplayed by Wilt, as well...and then sweeping a 42-40 Bullets team in the Finals.)

The rest of the decade he was losing in the first round with a 60-22 team to a 47-35 team (in a series in which he shot .428 from the field); losing in the Finals with HCA and a league best 59-23 team (with a game seven in which he was easily outplayed by the 6-9 Cowens); getting swept in the WCF's with his league best 53-29 Lakers by a 49-33 team; getting blown out in two straight playoff series by a Sonics team that had one borderline HOF player; and missing two straight playoffs right in the middle of the decade.

It wasn't until MAGIC arrived that he would win five more times. How good was MAGIC? In his rookie season, he led LA to a 60-22 record, and then a near-sweep of the same Sonics team that had routed LA the two previous seasons. Then, in the Finals, KAJ took game six off with a mild ankle sprain, and Magic then proceeded to lead the Lakers to a series-clinching blowout win on the road, with a monster 42-15-7 game.

Furthermore, in the decade of the 80's, KAJ was outplayed by Moses and his 40-42 Rockets in the first round upset of the Lakers, and then destroyed by Moses in the '83 Finals.

KAJ was a second fiddle in the '82 Finals (hell, McAdoo did as much coming off the bench as KAJ did starting.) He was a third wheel in the '87 Finals (in which Magic hung one of the GOAT Finals), and FIFTH option in the '88 Finals. In fact, the Lakers won that ring DESPITE Kareem. He had a poor playoff run, a putrid Finals ( 13-4 on .414 FG%), and a horrific game seven (4 pts on 2-7 shooting in 29 foul prone minutes.)

Had Wilt had MAGIC for 10 seasons, his career resume would have looked far better, as well.

[feyki]

can someone translate this? Do you mean he was the second best behind LeBron? Wade was better as well, btw.

You have no idea what i'm talking about .

[aj1987]

I love how all the LeBron kiddies, who started watching basketball like 4 years ago, want to talk about MJ and Kobe, when they haven't actually seen them play. :roll: :roll:



Don't insult LeBron with a 3" Chokerlain who quit on his teams, choked against inferior competition (being outplayed by a Egan, ...hell even 34 year old Bayloe), and was a wimp who shit his pants like a little bitch, once he saw Reed walk onto the court.

Chokerlain, is at best, a Top-26 all-time player, and you can forget ESPN's janitor voting that was conducted earlier this year.
Agreed, kid. LeBron absolutely shits on Chokerlain. No comparison between LeBron and the GOAT choker.

4 MVP's, 3 rings, 3 FMVP's shit on 4 MVP's, 2 carried rings, and one gifted FMVP.

Chokerlain is the most overrated player in the history of the sport. Statpadding career choker.

[Mr Feeny]

I love how all the LeBron kiddies, who started watching basketball like 4 years ago, want to talk about MJ and Kobe, when they haven't actually seen them play. :roll: :roll:



Agreed, kid. LeBron absolutely shits on Chokerlain. No comparison between LeBron and the GOAT choker.

4 MVP's, 3 rings, 3 FMVP's shit on 4 MVP's, 2 carried rings, and one gifted FMVP.

Chokerlain is the most overrated player in the history of the sport. Statpadding career choker.

Goodness even the Wade stans are owning the Wilt and Kobe stans and putting them in their place :banana:
:bowdown:

[Mr Feeny]

can someone translate this? Do you mean he was the second best behind LeBron? Wade was better as well, btw.

:oldlol:
I honestly have no idea what he means either:oldlol

This is the same guy who thinks it's not insane to suggest that Kobe's dominance is comparable to LeBron's:roll:

[aj1987]

Goodness even the Wade stans are owning the Wilt and Kobe stans and putting them in their place :banana:
:bowdown:
This might be new and shocking to you, but even though Wade is my favorite player, I'm a Heat fan.

EDIT: I was NEVER a Wilt fan, but I still like Kobe and he's top 10 IMO. You can have your PER and VORP though. I've actually seen the man play.

[Mr Feeny]

This might be new and shocking to you, but even though Wade is my favorite player, I'm a Heat fan.

What about being a heat fan makes you want to own the kobtards?

Savage:biggums:

[aj1987]

What about being a heat fan makes you want to own the kobtards?

Savage:biggums:
Most Kobe turds are retards and I'm allergic to retard. :confusedshrug:

[LostCause]

Chamberlain

[Big164]

I vote Krusty the Clown as #4 all time

[Mr Feeny]

Most Kobe turds are retards and I'm allergic to retard. :confusedshrug:

You sick and twisted savage mother farker :lol

[dyna]

Wilt

[Mr Feeny]

Wilt

Too bad the majority don't agree with you :D

Jordan, Jabbar and James are usually followed by magic or Russell.
The first 3 are the consensus three greatest of all time :lebronamazed:

Just wait till bran becomes the all time leading playoff scorer next June. 2nd babayyy :hammertime:

[k0kakw0rld]

Actually I agree. I have Shaq 4th usually and somehow forgot about him. :lol

1. Jordan
2/3 are Kareem and LeBron in some order, only thing stopping LeBron is the incomplete career.
4. Shaq
5. Magic
6. Bird
Shaq, Magic, Bird ain't top 5. Stop fooling yourselves please. There is 3 other deserving candidates...

[LAZERUSS]

I love how all the LeBron kiddies, who started watching basketball like 4 years ago, want to talk about MJ and Kobe, when they haven't actually seen them play. :roll: :roll:



Agreed, kid. LeBron absolutely shits on Chokerlain. No comparison between LeBron and the GOAT choker.

4 MVP's, 3 rings, 3 FMVP's shit on 4 MVP's, 2 carried rings, and one gifted FMVP.

Chokerlain is the most overrated player in the history of the sport. Statpadding career choker.

GIFTED???

Too bad a PRIME Chamberlain didn't get to face the likes of a washed up Smits in his last season, or a 35 year old Mutombo...whom he would have been allowed to beat to a bloody pulp, or a never was McCulloch who had a four year career and averaged 6 ppg...in three Finals.

BTW, you tell me what Mutombo was supposed to do here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3FXLyNFew

If Wilt, who was not only taller, longer, more athletic, but also most assuredly stronger than Shaq, would have been allowed to play that way, they would have been carrying opposing centers out in bodybags.

Wilt was routinely hanging 40-50+ point games on dorks the likes of what Shaq faced in his three Finals. In fact, he was brutalizing a prime Russell in his prime with 40 and 50 point games. And when he faced a MacCulloch-type center in the '70 Finals in a must win game six, he crushed Nate Bowman with a 45 point game on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds.

And a 35 year old Chamberlain was not GIFTED a FMVP. In fact, he had to overcome the horrific shooting of Jerry West (.325 in the Finals) to dominate the Knicks. This...after reducing a peak KAJ...you know, the Kareem, who had ages 38-39 was routinely crushing Hakeem with 40+ point games (something a peak Shaq couldn't do BTW)...to a shot-jacking brick-layer in the WCF's...


In the post-season, the Lakers swept the Chicago Bulls,[92] then went on to face the Milwaukee Bucks of young superstar center and regular-season MVP Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (formerly Lew Alcindor). The matchup between Chamberlain and Abdul-Jabbar was hailed by LIFE magazine as the greatest matchup in all of sports. Chamberlain would help lead the Lakers past Abdul-Jabbar and the Bucks in six games.[92] Particularly, Chamberlain was lauded for his performance in Game 6, which the Lakers won 104–100 after trailing by 10 points in the fourth quarter: he scored 24 points and 22 rebounds, played all 48 minutes and outsprinted the younger Bucks center on several late Lakers fast breaks.[93] Jerry West called it "the greatest ball-busting performance I have ever seen."[93] Chamberlain performed so well in the series that TIME magazine stated, "In the N.B.A.'s western division title series with Milwaukee, he (Chamberlain) decisively outplayed basketball's newest giant superstar, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, eleven years his junior."[94]


Chamberlain with the Lakers in 1972
In the 1972 NBA Finals, the Lakers again met the New York Knicks; the Knicks were shorthanded after losing 6'9" Willis Reed to injury, and so, undersized 6'8" Jerry Lucas had the task to defend against the 7'1" Chamberlain.[95] However, prolific outside shooter Lucas helped New York to win Game 1, hitting nine of his 11 shots in the first half alone; in Game 2, which the Lakers won 106–92, Chamberlain put Lucas into foul trouble, and the Knicks lost defensive power forward Dave DeBusschere to injury.[95] In Game 3, Chamberlain scored 26 points and grabbed 20 rebounds for another Lakers win, and in a fiercely battled Game 4, the Lakers center was playing with five fouls late in the game. Having never fouled out in his career – a feat that he was very proud of – he played aggressive defense despite the risk of fouling out, and blocked two of Lucas' shots in overtime, proving those wrong who said he only played for his own stats; he ended scoring a game-high 27 points.[95] But in that game, he fell on his right hand, and was said to have "sprained" it; it was actually broken. For Game 5, Chamberlain's hands were packed into thick pads normally destined for defensive linesmen in American Football; he was offered a painkilling shot, but refused because he feared he would lose his shooting touch if his hands became numb.[95] In Game 5, Chamberlain recorded 24 points, 29 rebounds, eight assists and eight blocked shots. (While blocked shots were not an official NBA stat at that time, announcer Keith Jackson counted the blocks during the broadcast.[citation needed]) Chamberlain's outstanding all-around performance helped the Lakers win their first championship in Los Angeles with a decisive 114–100 win.[95] Chamberlain was named Finals MVP,[41] and was admired for dominating the Knicks in Game 5 while playing injured.[95]

Furthermore, a PRIME Chamberlain would have won a unanimous FMVP in '67, had the award existed...and that was in a series in which an opposing player averaged 41 ppg.

Of course, a Shaq at age 34 was GIFTED a ring, in a Finals in which he faced a career bust in Eric Dampier.

A 34 year old Wilt was outplaying a PEAK KAJ in the '71 WCF's.

And while a 35 year old Wilt was winning a dominant FMVP, a 35 year old Shaq was getting abused by Tim Duncan in the first round of the playoffs.

The 6-11 1/2 Shaq couldn't match Chamberlain in ANY facet of the game. NONE.


Finally...regarding Wilt's 4 MVPs. You realize that he didn't win the MVP in '62 don't you? Yet, compare individual numbers, and team numbers, with Russell in both their '60 and '62 seasons, and explain to all of us here how he could run away with the MVP in his rookie season...and not win it in '62.

The reality was...Chamberlain held a 7-2 margin in first team all-NBA selections over Russell in their 10 seasons together. He was already considered a greater player in his rookie season, and by the mid-60's he was running away with the MVP three straight seasons.

Interesting too that Russell won the MVP in '65, and would have won the FMVP had it existed (he put up an 18-25 .702 FG% Finals against the Lakers in a 4-1 series rout.) Yet, Chamberlain just annihilated Russell in the EDF's. Wilt was traded at mid-season, for three players, to a team that had gone 34-46 the year before. They would finish 40-40...and after Wilt buried Oscar's 48-32 Royals in the first round, he carried that roster to a game seven, one point loss against Russell's 62-18 Celtics...with a series in which he averaged 30 ppg, 31 rpg, and shot .555 (along with 7 bpg.) He just wiped the floor with "MVP" Russell in every facet of the game.

[RRR3]

LAZ I'm assuming you're voting for Chamberlain?

[RRR3]

Much more diverse voting in this one. Almost certainly going to be Russell...

[ClipperRevival]

William Felton Russell.

[Naero]

Bill Russell - the eponymous Finals MVP.

[RRR3]

William Felton Russell.
/thread

Part 5 coming up

[Lebron23]

You have no idea what i'm talking about .


You are the worst poster in this forum.

[ArbitraryWater]

:oldlol:
I honestly have no idea what he means either:oldlol

This is the same guy who thinks it's not insane to suggest that Kobe's dominance is comparable to LeBron's:roll:

he still hasnt looked up a dict

[aj1987]

GIFTED???
Yep. 8th leading scorer in the '69 Finals. 6th in '72. 7th in '67.

Wilt played with 3 HOF'ers a top 12 player and another top ~20 player and choked HARD in the PO's. One player's numbers went up in the RS and the Finals, while the other players' nose dived.

Shaq:

23.7 PPG in the RS
24.3 PPG in the PO's
29 PPG in the Finals

4/5 in the Finals.

Wilt:

30 PPG in the RS
22 PPG in the PO's
19 PPG in the Finals

2/6 in the Finals.

"The Big Dipper" aptly named.

.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals


Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Default NBA choking rating

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

[Mr Feeny]

Someone please tell me that what AJ posted isn't true.
8th highest scorer in the 1969 finals was Wilt? :roll:

In a 7 game series. West has 42 in the finals game while Wilt misses more free throws than the final spread and finishes the series as the 8th top scorer:lol

That's how you singlehandedly lose a Finals for your team:bowdown:

[feyki]

Too many idiots for the same forum :rolleyes:

[LAZERUSS]

Someone please tell me that what AJ posted isn't true.
8th highest scorer in the 1969 finals was Wilt? :roll:

In a 7 game series. West has 42 in the finals game while Wilt misses more free throws than the final spread and finishes the series as the 8th top scorer:lol

That's how you singlehandedly lose a Finals for your team:bowdown:

Blame Wilt's COACH.

"When we pass the ball into he will score, but it is an ugly offense to watch."

Instead, he had Chamberlain playing the HIGH POST.

Can you imagine Phil Jackson going to Shaq, and asking him to play the HIGH POST?

Or going to MJ and asking him to sacrifice his offense so his teammates could shoot more (and in Baylor's case...horrifically)?

BTW, Chamberlain played 43 minutes in that game seven, and put up 18 points, on 7-8 shooting (.875), with 27 rebounds, and 10 blocks. His TS% was the highest in the game, at .621. Meanwhile, Russell scored 6 points, with 21 rebounds, on 2-7 shooting (.286), with a TS% of .333.

So, here was Chamberlain...shackled by his COACH, but PLAYING well enough, and his team losing by two points (with Chamberlain forced to sit on the bench in the last five minutes because his stubborn would rather have lost with Wilt on the bench, than win with him on floor.)


Now, keep in mind that Kareem missed a clinching game six of the '80 Finals with a sprained ankle...and MAGIC led them to the most decisive win in the series (on the road BTW.) Wilt NEVER had that kind of support.

[aj1987]

Blame Wilt's COACH.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Ilt Chokerlain is the most dominant and GOAT according to you dolts, but lets blame the coach because he was a choking mental midget, who shriveled up more as the stage got bigger.

[Mr Feeny]

Blame Wilt's COACH.

"When we pass the ball into he will score, but it is an ugly offense to watch."

Instead, he had Chamberlain playing the HIGH POST.

Can you imagine Phil Jackson going to Shaq, and asking him to play the HIGH POST?

Or going to MJ and asking him to sacrifice his offense so his teammates could shoot more (and in Baylor's case...horrifically)?

BTW, Chamberlain played 43 minutes in that game seven, and put up 18 points, on 7-8 shooting (.875), with 27 rebounds, and 10 blocks. His TS% was the highest in the game, at .621. Meanwhile, Russell scored 6 points, with 21 rebounds, on 2-7 shooting (.286), with a TS% of .333.

So, here was Chamberlain...shackled by his COACH, but PLAYING well enough, and his team losing by two points (with Chamberlain forced to sit on the bench in the last five minutes because his stubborn would rather have lost with Wilt on the bench, than win with him on floor.)


Now, keep in mind that Kareem missed a clinching game six of the '80 Finals with a sprained ankle...and MAGIC led them to the most decisive win in the series (on the road BTW.) Wilt NEVER had that kind of support.

Why the heck would I blame his coach for him missing more free throws than the final spread of a game 7 and single handedly lose the finals for West and the Lakers? :lol

:roll:

[LAZERUSS]

Yep. 8th leading scorer in the '69 Finals. 6th in '72. 7th in '67.

Wilt played with 3 HOF'ers a top 12 player and another top ~20 player and choked HARD in the PO's. One player's numbers went up in the RS and the Finals, while the other players' nose dived.

Shaq:

23.7 PPG in the RS
24.3 PPG in the PO's
29 PPG in the Finals

4/5 in the Finals.

Wilt:

30 PPG in the RS
22 PPG in the PO's
19 PPG in the Finals

2/6 in the Finals.

"The Big Dipper" aptly named.

.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals


Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Default NBA choking rating

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

GIFTED???

Too bad a PRIME Chamberlain didn't get to face the likes of a washed up Smits in his last season, or a 35 year old Mutombo...whom he would have been allowed to beat to a bloody pulp, or a never was McCulloch who had a four year career and averaged 6 ppg...in three Finals.

BTW, you tell me what Mutombo was supposed to do here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3FXLyNFew

If Wilt, who was not only taller, longer, more athletic, but also most assuredly stronger than Shaq, would have been allowed to play that way, they would have been carrying opposing centers out in bodybags.

Wilt was routinely hanging 40-50+ point games on dorks the likes of what Shaq faced in his three Finals. In fact, he was brutalizing a prime Russell in his prime with 40 and 50 point games. And when he faced a MacCulloch-type center in the '70 Finals in a must win game six, he crushed Nate Bowman with a 45 point game on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds.

And a 35 year old Chamberlain was not GIFTED a FMVP. In fact, he had to overcome the horrific shooting of Jerry West (.325 in the Finals) to dominate the Knicks. This...after reducing a peak KAJ...you know, the Kareem, who had ages 38-39 was routinely crushing Hakeem with 40+ point games (something a peak Shaq couldn't do BTW)...to a shot-jacking brick-layer in the WCF's...



Quote:

In the post-season, the Lakers swept the Chicago Bulls,[92] then went on to face the Milwaukee Bucks of young superstar center and regular-season MVP Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (formerly Lew Alcindor). The matchup between Chamberlain and Abdul-Jabbar was hailed by LIFE magazine as the greatest matchup in all of sports. Chamberlain would help lead the Lakers past Abdul-Jabbar and the Bucks in six games.[92] Particularly, Chamberlain was lauded for his performance in Game 6, which the Lakers won 104

[Mr Feeny]

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]GIFTED???

Too bad a PRIME Chamberlain didn't get to face the likes of a washed up Smits in his last season, or a 35 year old Mutombo...whom he would have been allowed to beat to a bloody pulp, or a never was McCulloch who had a four year career and averaged 6 ppg...in three Finals.

BTW, you tell me what Mutombo was supposed to do here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3FXLyNFew

If Wilt, who was not only taller, longer, more athletic, but also most assuredly stronger than Shaq, would have been allowed to play that way, they would have been carrying opposing centers out in bodybags.

Wilt was routinely hanging 40-50+ point games on dorks the likes of what Shaq faced in his three Finals. In fact, he was brutalizing a prime Russell in his prime with 40 and 50 point games. And when he faced a MacCulloch-type center in the '70 Finals in a must win game six, he crushed Nate Bowman with a 45 point game on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds.

And a 35 year old Chamberlain was not GIFTED a FMVP. In fact, he had to overcome the horrific shooting of Jerry West (.325 in the Finals) to dominate the Knicks. This...after reducing a peak KAJ...you know, the Kareem, who had ages 38-39 was routinely crushing Hakeem with 40+ point games (something a peak Shaq couldn't do BTW)...to a shot-jacking brick-layer in the WCF's...



Quote:

In the post-season, the Lakers swept the Chicago Bulls,[92] then went on to face the Milwaukee Bucks of young superstar center and regular-season MVP Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (formerly Lew Alcindor). The matchup between Chamberlain and Abdul-Jabbar was hailed by LIFE magazine as the greatest matchup in all of sports. Chamberlain would help lead the Lakers past Abdul-Jabbar and the Bucks in six games.[92] Particularly, Chamberlain was lauded for his performance in Game 6, which the Lakers won 104

[LAZERUSS]

12 ppg in 1969 while missing more free throws than the final spread in game 7.
There's no bigger choker in all of basketball. Possibly Kobe but that's it.

That's why they're both tiers below lethick :lebronamazed:

Oh really?

So, a Wilt who shot 7-8 from the FIELD (.875 FG%), and yes, 4-13 from the line...or a GAME HIGH TS% of .621 (Russell's team WON the game BTW...in a game in which Russell shot 2-7 from the field (.286), and 2-4 from the line...for a TS% of .333)...

is a WORSE CHOKER than Lebron in the sweeping game four loss of the '07 Finals (in a series in which he shot a horrific .356 from the fied BTW)...

in a one point loss, your boy Lebron not only shot 10-30 from the field, but also 2-6 from the LINE!

His TS% was...get this.... .333!

Talk about a CHOKER.

BTW, his 2011 CHOKE JOB was FAR worse than Chamberlain's '69 series.

Wilt at least led both teams, and by a huge margin, in rpg. And he STILL easily outplayed Russell...particularly in that game seven.

BTW, if you want to blame anyone for Wilt's play in the '69 Finals...look no further than his COACH! How come it was West and Baylor taking all the shots?

Incidently, the coach immediately quit after that game, because he knew he was about to be FIRED. His coaching career was basically ruined....while Chamberlain would lead LA to their first ever title in Los Angeles a couple of years later.

[Mr Feeny]

Oh really?

So, a Wilt who shot 7-8 from the FIELD (.875 FG%), and yes, 4-13 from the line...or a GAME HIGH TS% of .621 (Russell's team WON the game BTW...in a game in which Russell shot 2-7 from the field (.286), and 2-4 from the line...for a TS% of .333)...

is a WORSE CHOKER than Lebron in the sweeping game four loss of the '07 Finals (in a series in which he shot a horrific .356 from the fied BTW)...

in a one point loss, your boy Lebron not only shot 10-30 from the field, but also 2-6 from the LINE!

His TS% was...get this.... .333!

Talk about a CHOKER.

BTW, his 2011 CHOKE JOB was FAR worse than Chamberlain's '69 series.

Wilt at least led both teams, and by a huge margin, in rpg. And he STILL easily outplayed Russell...particularly in that game seven.

BTW, if you want to blame anyone for Wilt's play in the '69 Finals...look no further than his COACH! How come it was West and Baylor taking all the shots?

Incidently, the coach immediately quit after that game, because he knew he was about to be FIRED. His coaching career was basically ruined....while Chamberlain would lead LA to their first ever title in Los Angeles a couple of years later.

Even you can't be this dumb.

Wilt's team lost by 2 points and he missed 9 free throws. Wilt's teammate west put up 42 points in that game 7 but was let down by the choker.

For the series, wrest averaged 40 and the choker averaged 12ppg. West had no help.

[aj1987]

12 ppg in 1969 while missing more free throws than the final spread in game 7.
There's no bigger choker in all of basketball. Possibly Kobe but that's it.

That's why they're both tiers below lethick :lebronamazed:
Dude just keeps making up excuses. Shaq had failures and I admit it. Wade had failures and I admit it. LeBron had failures and I admit it. when it comes to Chokerlain though, it's the coaches fault. Apparently, it was the coaches fault that Ilt had the most EPIC chokes in the history of the game.

Lets also not forget that even if he had Red, Loozers would blame his teammates, the size of the hoop, and the air in the ball. :oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

Dude just keeps making up excuses. Shaq had failures and I admit it. Wade had failures and I admit it. LeBron had failures and I admit it. when it comes to Chokerlain though, it's the coaches fault. Apparently, it was the coaches fault that Ilt had the most EPIC chokes in the history of the game.

Lets also not forget that even if he had Red, Loozers would blame his teammates, the size of the hoop, and the air in the ball. :oldlol:

Stans can make the worst excuses sometimes but this is really something else.
What type of delusion does it take to type something this dumb?:oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

Even you can't be this dumb.

Wilt's team lost by 2 points and he missed 9 free throws. Wilt's teammate west put up 42 points in that game 7 but was let down by the choker.

For the series, wrest averaged 40 and the choker averaged 12ppg. West had no help.

And your boy Lebron SINGLE-HANDEDLY LOSING game four and the series in the 2007 Finals with 20 missed FGAs (10-30) and 4 missed FTs (2-6) ...in a ONE POINT LOSS.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

3 inch LeChoke at his finest.

[aj1987]

And your boy Lebron SINGLE-HANDEDLY LOSING game four and the series in the 2007 Finals with 20 missed FGAs (10-30) and 4 missed FTs (2-6) ...in a ONE POINT LOSS.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

3 inch LeChoke at his finest.
You bring it up so often, makes me wonder if you actually measured it with your tongue.

4 MVP's, 3 Rings, and 3 FMVP's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 Gifted MVP's, 2 Gifted Rings, and 1 Gifted FMVP.

[LAZERUSS]

Dude just keeps making up excuses. Shaq had failures and I admit it. Wade had failures and I admit it. LeBron had failures and I admit it. when it comes to Chokerlain though, it's the coaches fault. Apparently, it was the coaches fault that Ilt had the most EPIC chokes in the history of the game.

Lets also not forget that even if he had Red, Loozers would blame his teammates, the size of the hoop, and the air in the ball. :oldlol:

You tell me...

https://books.google.com/books?id=9BaqPfGcI84C&pg=PA355&lpg=PA355&dq=butch+van+breda+kolff+had+chamberlain+playing+t he+high+post&source=bl&ots=rQxpX4Ys7l&sig=oosFtJ3aB-NUrdTlS-5xi8-eHyI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi70fWD0svKAhVDuYMKHSvWDRgQ6AEIQTAJ#v=on epage&q=butch%20van%20breda%20kolff%20had%20chamberlain% 20playing%20the%20high%20post&f=false


Butch Van Breda Kolff:

"So we were able to throw the ball down low to Wilt, and he would score, but it was an ugly offense to watch."

Wilt:

"Butch wanted me to play the high post so Elgin could drive, but they got me for my rebounding. Why pull a guy away from the basket when you want him to rebound?"



Yep...move Wilt out at the high post so that Elgin could drive the baseline. How did that work in that Finals BTW? Baylor shot .397 from the field in the series, and in three of the losses (by margins of 6, 2, and 1 point), he shot 4-18, 2-14 (and 1-5 from the line in that 1 point loss), and a game seven of 8-22 (in a two point loss.)

Can you imagine Phil Jackson going to a prime Shaq, and asking him to play the HIGH POST????

Incidently, Wilt's new coach the next season made WILT the focal of the offense, and he was leading the league in scoring, at 32.2 ppg (on a .579 FG% ... to go along with 20.6 rpg), when he shredded the SAME knee that he injured in game seven of the '69 Finals in his ninth game (Oh, and rookie KAJ would average 28.8 ppg on a .518 FG% that same season.). BTW. he had played 28 minutes in that game, and had scored 33 points on 13-14 from the field. In other words, he was well on his way to yet another 50+ point game.

Too bad too. He was never the same offensive force again...albeit, he was still, by far, the game's best rebounder and defensive force.

Hell, in his last post-season, at age 36, and covering 17 games, he averaged 22.5 rpg, in a post-season NBA that averaged 50.6 rpg (just last year the NBA averaged 42.0 in the '16 post-season.) No one has approached that mark since (18.3 rpg being the next best mark.) So, reducing Wilt's rpg down to '16 post-season level... 18.7 rpg.

[LAZERUSS]

You bring it up so often, makes me wonder if you actually measured it with your tongue.

4 MVP's, 3 Rings, and 3 FMVP's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 Gifted MVP's, 2 Gifted Rings, and 1 Gifted FMVP.

A PRIME Shaq going up Greg (I can't dunk) Ostertag...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1997-nba-western-conference-semifinals-lakers-vs-jazz.html

BTW...Shaq's post-season record against Big Greg.... 1-8.

Ostertag...the "Shaq Stopper"

oh wait...that belonged to the all-time great Curry...Eddie Curry...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=curryed01&p2=onealsh01

[Mr Feeny]

You tell me...

https://books.google.com/books?id=9BaqPfGcI84C&pg=PA355&lpg=PA355&dq=butch+van+breda+kolff+had+chamberlain+playing+t he+high+post&source=bl&ots=rQxpX4Ys7l&sig=oosFtJ3aB-NUrdTlS-5xi8-eHyI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi70fWD0svKAhVDuYMKHSvWDRgQ6AEIQTAJ#v=on epage&q=butch%20van%20breda%20kolff%20had%20chamberlain% 20playing%20the%20high%20post&f=false



Yep...move Wilt out at the high post so that Elgin could drive the baseline. How did that work in that Finals BTW? Baylor shot .397 from the field in the series, and in three of the losses (by margins of 6, 2, and 1 point), he shot 4-18, 2-14 (and 1-5 from the line in that 1 point loss), and a game seven of 8-22 (in a two point loss.)

Can you imagine Phil Jackson going to a prime Shaq, and asking him to play the HIGH POST????

Incidently, Wilt's new coach the next season made WILT the focal of the offense, and he was leading the league in scoring, at 32.2 ppg (on a .579 FG% ... to go along with 20.6 rpg), when he shredded the SAME knee that he injured in game seven of the '69 Finals in his ninth game (Oh, and rookie KAJ would average 28.8 ppg on a .518 FG% that same season.). BTW. he had played 28 minutes in that game, and had scored 33 points on 13-14 from the field. In other words, he was well on his way to yet another 50+ point game.

Too bad too. He was never the same offensive force again...albeit, he was still, by far, the game's best rebounder and defensive force.

Hell, in his last post-season, at age 36, and covering 17 games, he averaged 22.5 rpg, in a post-season NBA that averaged 50.6 rpg (just last year the NBA averaged 42.0 in the '16 post-season.) No one has approached that mark since (18.3 rpg being the next best mark.) So, reducing Wilt's rpg down to '16 post-season level... 18.7 rpg.

Wilt blaming his coach to excuse his chokes doesn't mean we're about to do the same.

The man averaged 12 ppg in the 1969 finals while missing more free throws than the result margin in game 7 as Jerry West scored 42 points but was let down by the choker.

There's a reason Wilt just isn't considered on the same level as a Lebron james, all time :lol

3 fmvps :D

[aj1987]

A PRIME Shaq going up Greg (I can't dunk) Ostertag...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1997-nba-western-conference-semifinals-lakers-vs-jazz.html

BTW...Shaq's post-season record against Big Greg.... 1-8.

Ostertag...the "Shaq Stopper"

oh wait...that belonged to the all-time great Curry...Eddie Curry...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=curryed01&p2=onealsh01
Better than Chokerlain's numbers in the Finals. :confusedshrug:

[tmacattack33]

Wilt Charmberlain.

[RRR3]

Wilt Charmberlain.
:biggums: This thread is over we're on number 5