DURABILITY - Lebron vs Jordan vs Magic (and other HOF'rs)

[scuzzy]

Lebron James has never missed a playoff game for any reason. 42.5 MPG/182 games in playoffs

https://s31.postimg.org/63dobqrob/injury6.jpg

How is this possible when the opposing team is guarding James with 1-2 of their toughest defenders?

Not to mention, Lebrons game is built on driving to the basket getting whacked in the face, elbowed and tripped. Or in the post banging against power forwards and centers 20-40 pounds heavier.

Because staying healthy on the court is a SKILL

Lebron focuses on IN-GAME IMPACT DRILLS

"In September, I was doing three-a-days, five days a week."

"I will take all the pain that comes with competing for a championship at the end of the day," "I'll take all the bumps and bruises that I get when I'm playing because I know that I left it all out on the floor."
Andre Iguodala - A perfect example with poor skillset at staying healthy

Just the past year Andre has battled with pulled hamstring, ankle swelling and a sore back

Here Iguodala is laying down with a minor sore back after having to guard Lebron James for 6 games in a row.

https://s32.postimg.org/sst2zr83p/injury3.jpg

Not uncommon though - Just the past 2 playoffs, several players guarding Lebron weren't skilled enough to take on his physicality and power
1. Demarre Carroll
2. Andre Iguodala
3. Loul Deng

"The physicality, toughness and endurance it takes to guard Lebron in a 7 game game series is overwhelming" - Anonymous NBA superstar
Andrew Bogut - The leagues most injured player next to Andrew Bynum and Greg Oden

https://s32.postimg.org/ec5tl6imd/injury5.jpg
https://s32.postimg.org/mixtcr8p1/injury4.png


LeBron’s 42.5 minutes per game during the playoffs is the highest of any active player and the 10th-most all-time

James’ ability to remain healthy and productive despite a heavy workload must have opposing coaches feeling like Ivan Drago midway into his bout against Rocky Balboa in Rocky

Top Current star NBA players durability from best to worst

https://s31.postimg.org/fdm44ailn/injury1.png

Top Hall of Fame NBA players durability

https://s31.postimg.org/svt0gkuqz/injury2.png

[LostCause]

Hmm so it looks like just RS. In Jordans case it seems to omit 82 games from his total (I'm guessing the late season he came outta retirement) but it still counts the 17 he played in that year. So if you adjust (add those 17 to the Games Total also, instead of only his Games Played) Jordans looks like this

1072/1165 = 92%

Lebrons by comparison is 987/1050 - 94%

So yeah, Bron has been the more durable of the two. He amazingly hasn't had any major injuries, like Jordan did his 2nd year (For what its worth, if Jordan didn't have that injury, he would be at 97%, including his 39/40 year old seasons in WSH where he amazingly played in all 82 games his final year)

Either way, great find though it seems kind of outdated.

(Didn't bother with Magic since he's pretty low as is)

[scuzzy]

Hmm so it looks like just RS. In Jordans case it seems to omit 82 games from his total (I'm guessing the late season he came outta retirement) but it still counts the 17 he played in that year. So if you adjust (add those 17 to the Games Total also, instead of only his Games Played) Jordans looks like this

1072/1165 = 92%

Lebrons by comparison is 987/1050 - 94%

So yeah, Bron has been the more durable of the two. He amazingly hasn't had any major injuries, like Jordan did his 2nd year (For what its worth, if Jordan didn't have that injury, he would be at 97%, including his 39/40 year old seasons in WSH where he amazingly played in all 82 games his final year)

Either way, great find though it seems kind of outdated.

(Didn't bother with Magic since he's pretty low as is)

Yes the list is RS and is dated from 2013-2014, you are correct sir

[BlkMambaGOAT]

http://maxedmuscle.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/HGH-products-variety.jpg
http://www.infofit.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/steroids.jpg

NBA should conduct a monthly drug test to clean the league of cheaters (or at least players who cheat through illegal drugs).

[scuzzy]

NBA should conduct a monthly drug test to clean the league of cheaters (or at least players who cheat through illegal drugs).

Steroids don't prevent injury, in fact they increase injury if your "ON" cycle

Steroids help heal recovery time for muscle, not tendons/joins/bone/cartilage/concussions etc

Lebron has been Olympic tested multiple times, which is state of the art

And steroids have huge half-lives from 2 weeks up to 6 months

[Stringer Bell]

http://maxedmuscle.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/HGH-products-variety.jpg
http://www.infofit.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/steroids.jpg

NBA should conduct a monthly drug test to clean the league of cheaters (or at least players who cheat through illegal drugs).

I doubt the NBA really wants to know who uses PEDs.

Stricter testing would probably result in a whole slew of players getting busted and bring bad publicity to the game.

[OldSchoolBBall]

How is a guy who has never played a single 82 game season, only has two seasons of 80+ games, and who has averaged ~74 games played the last 7 seasons, as durable or as much of an ironman as a guy who had 9 seasons of 82 games played, and 11 seasons of 80+ games played?

Boggles the mind. :oldlol:

[warriorfan]

http://maxedmuscle.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/HGH-products-variety.jpg
http://www.infofit.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/steroids.jpg

NBA should conduct a monthly drug test to clean the league of cheaters (or at least players who cheat through illegal drugs).
PED use does explain for the size of LeBron's package

[AintNoSunshine]

How is a guy who has never played a single 82 game season, only has two seasons of 80+ games, and who has averaged ~74 games played the last 7 seasons, as durable or as much of an ironman as a guy who had 9 seasons of 82 games played, and 11 seasons of 80+ games played?

Boggles the mind. :oldlol:


Does this guy play the same brand of physical basketball and take the same pounding on a nightly basis tho? It's not just minutes played.

[Mr Feeny]

How is a guy who has never played a single 82 game season, only has two seasons of 80+ games, and who has averaged ~74 games played the last 7 seasons, as durable or as much of an ironman as a guy who had 9 seasons of 82 games played, and 11 seasons of 80+ games played?

Boggles the mind. :oldlol:

Who are wr talking about here?

[plowking]

Bron is as durable as he is due to the emphasis placed on his hip mobility and strength, and also core strength from an early age. Two of the biggest factors in terms of staying healthy. The more you work on these exercises even at home, the more limber and pain free you'll feel.

I remember watching his documentary a while back, and it was crazy seeing how much core and hip work this guy did as part of his training regime.

Curry attributed a lot of his health and success to his hip mobility and training regime he picked up 2 or 3 seasons ago. Outside of a few freak slips recently, he was far more durable and less finicky in terms of the smaller injuries.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Does this guy play the same brand of physical basketball and take the same pounding on a nightly basis tho? It's not just minutes played.

lol Not nearly enough of a difference to account for that gaping chasm between them. And Jordan played in a WAY more physical era.

[plowking]

lol Not nearly enough of a difference to account for that gaping chasm between them. And Jordan played in a WAY more physical era.

No. He didn't play in a WAY more physical era. You old heads honestly think there is some vast difference in the way basketball is played today in terms of physicality. There isn't. There is still pushing and punching going on in the background, etc. It is simply slightly more officiated to protect the bigger investments owners are making. The only real difference that has changed is the frequency of techinicals and flagrants.

Jordan wasn't out there playing prison ball compared to today's rules.

This is the same notion brought up by all the legends who have already had their time in the spotlight. Wilt and Russell were saying the same thing about Jordan's era. Calling it soft, and saying you can't defend anyone anymore. Funny how no one brings that up.

[AintNoSunshine]

lol Not nearly enough of a difference to account for that gaping chasm between them. And Jordan played in a WAY more physical era.

OK I just assumed you were talking about someone else. Jordan is a freaking specimen himself.

They are about the same to me, far as durability goes. Lebron is going to compound way more basketball minutes tho.

[scuzzy]

OK I just assumed you were talking about someone else. Jordan is a freaking specimen himself.

They are about the same to me, far as durability goes. Lebron is going to compound way more basketball minutes tho.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/mp_per_g_career_p.html

https://s32.postimg.org/cq0bc60ud/aaaaa.png

[Bawkish]

No. He didn't play in a WAY more physical era. You old heads honestly think there is some vast difference in the way basketball is played today in terms of physicality. There isn't. There is still pushing and punching going on in the background, etc. It is simply slightly more officiated to protect the bigger investments owners are making. The only real difference that has changed is the frequency of techinicals and flagrants.

Jordan wasn't out there playing prison ball compared to today's rules.

This is the same notion brought up by all the legends who have already had their time in the spotlight. Wilt and Russell were saying the same thing about Jordan's era. Calling it soft, and saying you can't defend anyone anymore. Funny how no one brings that up.

funny though

there was this thing called Jordan Rules back then

never heard of anything similar applied to Lebron nowadays

but wait, NBA didn't want that anymore because superstars today were so damn sensitive about being "hurt"

[scuzzy]

lol Not nearly enough of a difference to account for that gaping chasm between them. And Jordan played in a WAY more physical era.
Thats. A. Myth.

[LostCause]

I don't believe it's a myth. Dozens of players/coaches who were active during both era's have given their own accounts of how the physicality of the game has changed from what it was in the 90s and 80s. Even players who have no stake in propping up the those decades as they enjoyed their greatest success after them (Kobe, McGrady, Shaq, etc). There's also the fact that the rule changes pretty clearly do limit contact on the perimeter for one thing, so

Interested to hear why you believe it's a myth.

[plowking]

I don't believe it's a myth. Dozens of players/coaches who were active during both era's have given their own accounts of how the physicality of the game has changed from what it was in the 90s and 80s. Even players who have no stake in propping up the those decades as they enjoyed their greatest success after them (Kobe, McGrady, Shaq, etc). There's also the fact that the rule changes pretty clearly do limit contact on the perimeter for one thing, so

Interested to hear why you believe it's a myth.

Yeah and dozens of players and coaches commented on how soft MJ's era was that played in the 60's and 70's. Why does everyone brush that off?
Guess because the 80's and 90's were the golden era and we can't ruin that image. :oldlol:

McGrady who you listed, was noted saying the zone defenses is what made it harder to score, along with allowing guys to double without the ball now. Something both Garnett and Duncan agreed with him on. In fact, he said this in the height of his playing days, not now when he has become an old, resentful, angry old has been.

[LostCause]

Yeah and dozens of players and coaches commented on how soft MJ's era was that played in the 60's and 70's. Why does everyone brush that off?
Guess because the 80's and 90's were the golden era and we can't ruin that image. :oldlol:

Because it's irrelevant. Whether players from the 60s and 70s found the 80s and 90s to be softer than their era does not in any way change the fact that players of the 80s and 90s, even ones who played in the 90s/00s/10s find the later era's to be even softer

Did I make the claim that the 80s and 90s were the most physical ever? Or more physical than the 60s or 70s? No? So why did you bring it up other than as a red herring?

Show me dozens of players/coaches from ANY era who say that the current era is more or as physical as it was during the 80s/90s, or even the 60s/70s.


McGrady who you listed, was noted saying the zone defenses is what made it harder to score, along with allowing guys to double without the ball now. Something both Garnett and Duncan agreed with him on. In fact, he said this in the height of his playing days, not now when he has become an old, resentful, angry old has been.

When he says it doesn't matter, he still experienced it. There's absolutely no reason for him to prop up the 90s since he enjoyed his own greatest success in the 00's, so if anything, he'd prop up that era

This argument isn't about whether it was harder to score or not. It's about which was more physical. The defense is a different argument

I think Tom Thibodeau is about as reliable a reference point as you can get. Agreed?
"I'd say the New York teams were much more physical because at that time you were allowed to play much more physical and we had greater size" - When talking about his Celtics defenses

Any reason to doubt his claim or believe he's biased?