Honestly, Pat riley is the most overrated gm

[Lebronxrings]

I've never seen a gm get so highly rated for so very little. People always claim that "Riley can work his magic" or "Don't count out Pat Riley" but really, what has he done?

[iamgine]

He's done a lot.

[G-train]

I've never seen a gm get so highly rated for so very little. People always claim that "Riley can work his magic" or "Don't count out Pat Riley" but really, what has he done?

do some research

[Spurs m8]

Yeah he is.

Did a great job getting rid of Wade though.

But wouldn't be much without Bron

[GrapeApe]

Yeah he is.

Did a great job getting rid of Wade though.

But wouldn't be much without Bron

He won a title before Lebron, remember?

I'll admit that Riley is probably a bit overrated and he basically lucked into drafting Wade, but he's made plenty of great moves over the years. He's considered a great GM by nearly all of his contemporaries.

And btw, your comment about Lebron is completely nonsensical. You're essentially saying Riley is only considered a great GM because he brought in a great player, which is his job as a GM. You tried to say he's not that good at his job by giving an example of him being good at his job.

[BasedTom]

begging you to see a ****** OP

[G-train]

One of the GOAT trades:

The Miami HEAT announced today that they have acquired All-Star forward Antoine Walker from the Boston Celtics, guard Jason Williams, forward James Posey, and guard Andre Emmett from the Memphis Grizzlies and the draft rights to center Roberto Duenas from the New Orleans Hornets in a five-team trade. The HEAT traded Eddie Jones to the Memphis Grizzlies, Rasual Butler to the New Orleans Hornets, and a 2006 second round draft pick, a conditional second round draft pick, Qyntel Woods and the draft rights to Albert Miralles to the Boston Celtics. Additionally, Memphis sent Greg Ostertag to the Utah Jazz and the Jazz sent Curtis Borchardt to the Celtics, Raul Lopez to the Grizzlies and Kirk Snyder to the Hornets.

[Spurs m8]

He won a title before Lebron, remember?

I'll admit that Riley is probably a bit overrated and he basically lucked into drafting Wade, but he's made plenty of great moves over the years. He's considered a great GM by nearly all of his contemporaries.

And btw, your comment about Lebron is completely nonsensical. You're essentially saying Riley is only considered a great GM because he brought in a great player, which is his job as a GM. You tried to say he's not that good at his job by giving an example of him being good at his job.

No.

LeBron colluded with Wade and Bosh....Riley didn't bring him in....Riley lucked out...as usual.

First title was fluked and rigged.

[dannysc305]

Even if he is over rated, he's not the MOST over rated, FOH...

[SpaceJam]

Even if he is over rated, he's not the MOST over rated, FOH...

Who is?

I do think Riley is overrated tho

[HeatFanSince88]

Riley's teams are NEVER irrelevant. They ALWAYS have a star, and Riley prioritizes getting a star. The year or two before Wade was like the only irrelevant time in his career.

Mourning/Hardaway
Wade
Shaq
LeBron/Bosh

who else consistantly gets new stars as often/successfull as he does? He's done a pretty good job getting Whiteside and Dragic for next to nothing even though they're not necesarily on par with the above mentioned guys.

[Kblaze8855]

Pat Riley built 4 totally different contending teams after he left the Lakers. The Knicks were garbage when he got there. Like a 38 win team. He had them with a new supporting cast and winning 60 games in like 2 years. He left for a bad(30ish wins) Heat team....traded Glen Rice and brought in Zo, Timmy, Majerle, and Mashburn in like 2 years...right to 60 wins. Zos kidneys went....cleaned house of that era. 2 years later....game 7 of the ECF. Title the next season. Fell apart the next year...blew it up in 08....2010..best free agency ever.

What more do you want?

Guys have been GMs 20-30 years and not made the finals.

Riley built 4 totally different 60 win teams in 18 years winning 3 rings and making 6 finals.

[r15mohd]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/78/d0/08/78d0081c73a3d8ebe0f8970237ef1534.jpg

[aj1987]

He won a title before Lebron, remember?

I'll admit that Riley is probably a bit overrated and he basically lucked into drafting Wade, but he's made plenty of great moves over the years. He's considered a great GM by nearly all of his contemporaries.

And btw, your comment about Lebron is completely nonsensical. You're essentially saying Riley is only considered a great GM because he brought in a great player, which is his job as a GM. You tried to say he's not that good at his job by giving an example of him being good at his job.
Agreed. He actually was against drafting Wade, but was basically forced to.

He's a great GM though. I might not like what he does all the time (getting rid of MM, wasting 4 seasons of Wade's prime, not getting a legit big from '12-'13, Spo, letting Wade go, etc.), but you can't ignore he success he has had.

[chocolatethunder]

Riley is one of the best GMs of all time, easily. He's a shitty drafter and doesn't even care much about drafting it seems but he always manages to build a legit team. However, the game has passed him by and I don't think that he'll ever build a contender again. The Dragic contract, the Bosh contract, assuming that Wade will just do whatever Riles says we're all just foolish and some of the moves were desperate. Now he's left with a team with Hassan Whitesideand Tyler Johnson. With Wade and Bron gone, we will see how good of a coach Spo is. They will have capspace but it's hard to imagine Riley luring anyone there next year. We will see but I think it's time for Riley to hang it up.

[mistergreens]

I've always taken a "trust in the Godfather" approach with Riles, but matching the Tyler Johnson offer sheet with those horrendous cap hits in year 3 and 4 really has me second guessing him for the first time.

[Klay 3D]

Great GM but still overrated. I'm more impressed with the scouting team which he may play a big role in...not sure. Tyler Johnson, Josh Richardson, Whiteside, Udonis, Bowen, Anthony Carter, Mike James, Caron Butler, D-Wade, and others. Most of them went undrafted and a few of them got picked up in the second round.

He's overrated after 2008 because he didn't surround peak Wade with enough talent to contend. Then he gets a boatload of credit for Lebron James and company when it was mostly because of Wade. The Goran Dragic trade...two first round picks out the window and now it looks even worse with Wade gone and now the signing of Tyler Johnson that will hurt them in 2018 taking $19m off the cap. So this upcoming year, you're banking on Dragic, Whiteside, a declining Bosh, and two sophomores to lead you into the playoffs...a potential first round exit earning a 12+ draft pick. Then in the 2017 offseason, no star will want to go there (limited cap space), Dragic turns 32, and the Heat becomes basically shit only for the Suns to get their pick unless the NBA rigs them into a top 7 pick. A consistent 30-40 win team is probably the worst situation to be in, and I expect that from Miami the next two years. TJ's contract is going to suck in 2018 with a loaded free agent class.

2018:
Whiteside $27m
Bosh $25m
TJ $19m
Dragic $18m
Winslow $3.5m
= ~$93m
Richardson will have a qualifying offer deal and he might be gone unless the Heat spend $$$ and he's as good as gone.

I'd only continue respecting Riley if they trade Goran Dragic this year to get younger somehow and aim for a top 5 pick in the upcoming draft. Trade a healthy Bosh somehow too. Maybe to the Celtics for Amir and a pick.

[Kblaze8855]

He's overrated after 2008 because he didn't surround peak Wade with enough talent to contend.

So...after a 15 win year...they had a finals team after 2 seasons. How is that too slow of a rebuild?

How would you have built a contender faster? Was he supposed to pull prime Kareem out of 1971 and sign him to the vet minimum?

Riley has taken 15-30ish win teams to contender status inside of 2 seasons....4 times.

[Kblaze8855]

Oh and did you notice that the 93 million you listed for 2018...wont even hit the salary...floor? The Floor is 84 million right now. And its going up again next summer. And probably up again. It sounding like a huge number doesnt mean it is relative to current contracts. It just gets them near the least they can possibly spend...meaning they could(should) easily have capspace like everyone else.

[stalkerforlife]

Riley probably had very little to do with the cowardly colluding by Bran.

That was Bran, Wade, and Bosh all day...but Wade was too alpha to leave at that point and he made Bran come to his team.

[aj1987]

So...after a 15 win year...they had a finals team after 2 seasons. How is that too slow of a rebuild?

How would you have built a contender faster? Was he supposed to pull prime Kareem out of 1971 and sign him to the vet minimum?

Riley has taken 15-30ish win teams to contender status inside of 2 seasons....4 times.
Literally the only thing Riley did was clear up cap space for LeBron/Bosh. They weren't coming to Miami if Wade wasn't there. More like Chicago or NY, if Wade went there.

[ShawkFactory]

Riley probably had very little to do with the cowardly colluding by Bran.

That was Bran, Wade, and Bosh all day...but Wade was too alpha to leave at that point and he made Bran come to his team.
Could be.

Could also be that Miami >>>>> Cleveland.

Who's to say :rolleyes:

[Smoke117]

He's overrated as far as getting the big three together...Wade had more to do with that than Riley did.

[tamaraw08]

Yeah he is.

Did a great job getting rid of Wade though.

But wouldn't be much without Bron

According to an article, Riley was NOT part of the negotiation with Wade.

Yes, I think he is overrated but he is not bad either. The guy is smart and was given a huge wallet to accomplish his objectives.
Forget the huge signings.
The one think most fans don't realize is his strength in finding a good staff, Fizdale is pretty good IMO, the trainers etc. They find undrafted players and found ways to maximize their talent. Guys like Whiteside, Haslem and yes even Joel Anthony.
He also was pretty good in finding for rent role players like Shane Battier to ably support the big 3.
But yes, he has his share of mistakes, one, I remember him overpaying Brian Grant who turned out to have a bad back. Luckily for him, the Lakers was willing to absorb that contract when they traded Shaq.

[Klay 3D]

So...after a 15 win year...they had a finals team after 2 seasons. How is that too slow of a rebuild?

How would you have built a contender faster? Was he supposed to pull prime Kareem out of 1971 and sign him to the vet minimum?

Riley has taken 15-30ish win teams to contender status inside of 2 seasons....4 times.
It's not technically rebuilding when you have a superstar already on the roster. If rebuilding anything, it's rebuilding a championship squad which he failed sorely in 2009 and 2010. He tried to trade the #2 pick but couldn't. Remember, I give him major props prior to 2008, but he simply isn't getting the job done afterwards. My impression is that you're giving Pat Riley a boatload of credit for acquiring Lebron and company? And regarding the signing of Battier, Ray, Miller, etc...how much credit do you give him? Very minimal to me. It's mainly a product of the big 3 which happened because of Wade being there. Not Pat, really. Whether it's his fault for Lebron leaving or not, he didn't get the job done there also.

Asking me to build a contender? Idk, it's not my job. A Godfather to me is someone who would figure that out, and I don't trust him just like Wade doesn't trust him. He hasn't built a contender since acquiring Shaq. Wade and Lebron built the other ones so I leave those 4 years out. When that era ended, Pat's desperate moves gave us Bosh with the max, the Dragic project losing potentially 2 first rounders, giving Whiteside the max, and matching TJ's deal. Instead of paying Wade $24m that he gave others to fill up the roster, he let Wade go in hopes to sign a big time free agent in 2017. Which (super)star in their right mind is going to south beach in 2017 after what they did with Wade? CP3? Durant? Westbrook? It's next to impossible in 2018 with TJ there. Should've gave Wade the max over 2 years and take a chance in free agency in 2018. What gives you hope that they'll be contending in the next 5+ years from what is all that is left now?

---

2018 cap is projected to be around $102m. Taking about $93m off of it doesn't leave a lot for anything major to happen. You have a Bosh turning 34, a Dragic turning 32, and a career backup getting paid ~60% of it all. Think about it. Not a very good team. This is a long ways out but in 2019, $65m is taken up by Whiteside, TJ, and Dragic. Winslow is probably going to become a borderline all-star if not one. If you match his contract, it leaves little wiggle room to contend. You're back at being a 30-40 win team.

To me, he's overrated as of right now. The future doesn't look bright unless you care about 30-40 win seasons. Maybe 45. As I mentioned earlier, get rid of Dragic and Bosh this season. Then, I'll be praising him again. It's best to suck this year. Those seats aren't going to get filled anyway. Sometimes, you've just got to own up and start over...chance it out to draft another Wade. His pride and ego is affecting his job...or should I say revenge on Lebron is affecting his job.

[DoctorP]

It's not technically rebuilding when you have a superstar already on the roster. If rebuilding anything, it's rebuilding a championship squad which he failed sorely in 2009 and 2010. He tried to trade the #2 pick but couldn't. Remember, I give him major props prior to 2008, but he simply isn't getting the job done afterwards. My impression is that you're giving Pat Riley a boatload of credit for acquiring Lebron and company? And regarding the signing of Battier, Ray, Miller, etc...how much credit do you give him? Very minimal to me. It's mainly a product of the big 3 which happened because of Wade being there. Not Pat, really. Whether it's his fault for Lebron leaving or not, he didn't get the job done there also.

Asking me to build a contender? Idk, it's not my job. A Godfather to me is someone who would figure that out, and I don't trust him just like Wade doesn't trust him. He hasn't built a contender since acquiring Shaq. Wade and Lebron built the other ones so I leave those 4 years out. When that era ended, Pat's desperate moves gave us Bosh with the max, the Dragic project losing potentially 2 first rounders, giving Whiteside the max, and matching TJ's deal. Instead of paying Wade $24m that he gave others to fill up the roster, he let Wade go in hopes to sign a big time free agent in 2017. Which (super)star in their right mind is going to south beach in 2017 after what they did with Wade? CP3? Durant? Westbrook? It's next to impossible in 2018 with TJ there. Should've gave Wade the max over 2 years and take a chance in free agency in 2018. What gives you hope that they'll be contending in the next 5+ years from what is all that is left now?

---

2018 cap is projected to be around $102m. Taking about $93m off of it doesn't leave a lot for anything major to happen. You have a Bosh turning 34, a Dragic turning 32, and a career backup getting paid ~60% of it all. Think about it. Not a very good team. This is a long ways out but in 2019, $65m is taken up by Whiteside, TJ, and Dragic. Winslow is probably going to become a borderline all-star if not one. If you match his contract, it leaves little wiggle room to contend. You're back at being a 30-40 win team.

To me, he's overrated as of right now. The future doesn't look bright unless you care about 30-40 win seasons. Maybe 45. As I mentioned earlier, get rid of Dragic and Bosh this season. Then, I'll be praising him again. It's best to suck this year. Those seats aren't going to get filled anyway. Sometimes, you've just got to own up and start over...chance it out to draft another Wade. His pride and ego is affecting his job...or should I say revenge on Lebron is affecting his job.

Riley has nothing to prove. Overrated? Maybe if you are overrating him. He is not a mediocre gm or a mediocre coach. Top tier.

Furthermore, who knows what kind of mindshare Eisenberg is having in the decision-making now but one thing is certain: if Riley retired today the franchise would be a lesser one as of today.

[Klay 3D]

Riley has nothing to prove. Overrated? Maybe if you are overrating him. He is not a mediocre gm or a mediocre coach. Top tier.
Is he an overrated GM right now?

[DoctorP]

Is he an overrated GM right now?

Last years moves were legit. Not his fault Bosh went down. He is probably underrated as of this very moment since he is being crapped on. I think he did misstep a bit trying to overreach on R Lewis and Granger but his rebuild with Dragic and Deng was decent.

[Nastradamus]

He might have a contender again if not for BOsh's health issues.

[smoovegittar]

Riley is a killer. He's dog-determined, and has no fear.

He's probably got the biggest set of all the GM's in the league.

OP better turn off the videos and hit the books.

[tamaraw08]

It's not technically rebuilding when you have a superstar already on the roster. If rebuilding anything, it's rebuilding a championship squad which he failed sorely in 2009 and 2010. He tried to trade the #2 pick but couldn't. Remember, I give him major props prior to 2008, but he simply isn't getting the job done afterwards. My impression is that you're giving Pat Riley a boatload of credit for acquiring Lebron and company? And regarding the signing of Battier, Ray, Miller, etc...how much credit do you give him? Very minimal to me. It's mainly a product of the big 3 which happened because of Wade being there. Not Pat, really. Whether it's his fault for Lebron leaving or not, he didn't get the job done there also.

Asking me to build a contender? Idk, it's not my job. A Godfather to me is someone who would figure that out, and I don't trust him just like Wade doesn't trust him. He hasn't built a contender since acquiring Shaq. Wade and Lebron built the other ones so I leave those 4 years out. When that era ended, Pat's desperate moves gave us Bosh with the max, the Dragic project losing potentially 2 first rounders, giving Whiteside the max, and matching TJ's deal. Instead of paying Wade $24m that he gave others to fill up the roster, he let Wade go in hopes to sign a big time free agent in 2017. Which (super)star in their right mind is going to south beach in 2017 after what they did with Wade? CP3? Durant? Westbrook? It's next to impossible in 2018 with TJ there. Should've gave Wade the max over 2 years and take a chance in free agency in 2018. What gives you hope that they'll be contending in the next 5+ years from what is all that is left now?

---

2018 cap is projected to be around $102m. Taking about $93m off of it doesn't leave a lot for anything major to happen. You have a Bosh turning 34, a Dragic turning 32, and a career backup getting paid ~60% of it all. Think about it. Not a very good team. This is a long ways out but in 2019, $65m is taken up by Whiteside, TJ, and Dragic. Winslow is probably going to become a borderline all-star if not one. If you match his contract, it leaves little wiggle room to contend. You're back at being a 30-40 win team.

To me, he's overrated as of right now. The future doesn't look bright unless you care about 30-40 win seasons. Maybe 45. As I mentioned earlier, get rid of Dragic and Bosh this season. Then, I'll be praising him again. It's best to suck this year. Those seats aren't going to get filled anyway. Sometimes, you've just got to own up and start over...chance it out to draft another Wade. His pride and ego is affecting his job...or should I say revenge on Lebron is affecting his job.
So if you are the GM, how would you do it differently? :confusedshrug:
Complete rebuild for the next 2-3 years, go on tank mode and hope to get top tier college players?
It's not always a guarantee that you get better going that route. I'm not convinced that the Sixers would be contenders in the next 5 years, are you?
I look at Orlando, they have not been decent for several years and where are they now?
Dragic contract as it turned out is not bad at all and therefore tradeable IMO.
Yes, they won't win anything right now but they have a few bright young 2- way players and I'm not sure they are that bad esp they can surprise the future FA's. Horford just signed with a young Boston team....

[tontoz]

Riley took the job in '97 and has 3 rings and only 4 losing seasons since then. How many top 3 picks has he had in that time?

OP is clueless.

[G-train]

If Riley is 'rated' as one of the better President's in the NBA, and you think he is 'overrated' in any way, start listing the better front office personnel and we will compare their transactions and achievements.

[aj1987]

If Riley is 'rated' as one of the better President's in the NBA, and you think he is 'overrated' in any way, start listing the better front office personnel and we will compare their transactions and achievements.
When people think of Pat, they think that he can literally get anyone for any price. That's the part about him that's overrated.

For instance, he didn't want to draft Wade. Without Wade, LeBron and Bosh wouldn't have come to the Heat. Without those 3, Miami would have 0 rings as a franchise and Riley would have the same as an Executive. Anyways, he still is probably a top 2 Executive ever, for the moves that have occurred during his tenure.

[G-train]

When people think of Pat, they think that he can literally get anyone for any price. That's the part about him that's overrated.


Only a moron would think that.



For instance, he didn't want to draft Wade. Without Wade, LeBron and Bosh wouldn't have come to the Heat. Without those 3, Miami would have 0 rings as a franchise and Riley would have the same as an Executive. Anyways, he still is probably a top 2 Executive ever, for the moves that have occurred during his tenure.

But he did draft Wade. He considered Chris Kaman, who went a pick later, as he had no center on the roster. But in the end, he still wanted Wade, and chose him.

And if he didn't draft Wade, we don't know what would have happened.

[Jasper]

Riley is a manipulator.

I foresee that his no show on D-wade was to clear some money space for future moves he has in his plans....

But I also see that he fvcked up on the Shaq move as well as Lebron moving back to CAv's .

He could of kept Shaq and added a piece to make another run,,, and Lebron he could of gave him half the franchise to make a 3 peat run... for sure.

Riles is not young , he is old , so it's possible in a year or two he is out.

[aj1987]

But he did draft Wade. He considered Chris Kaman, who went a pick later, as he had no center on the roster. But in the end, he still wanted Wade, and chose him.
He was basically forced to pick Wade by the other executive and Heat staff.


And if he didn't draft Wade, we don't know what would have happened.
Miami wouldn't have won a ring in '06 and LeBron/Bosh wouldn't have come to Miami.

[NugzFan]

I'd like to see him build a team that isn't in a top free agent destination to see how much of his success is from himself vs geography.

[HurricaneKid]

Whiteside, Tyler, and Richardson were acquired using a single 2nd round pick. That's impressive.

But yeah, I've been saying the same thing for a while. And his treatment of Wade is going to cost him.

[tamaraw08]

He was basically forced to pick Wade by the other executive and Heat staff.


Miami wouldn't have won a ring in '06 and LeBron/Bosh wouldn't have come to Miami.

As they say hindsight is great for us, speculators. :lol
Riley is human and so is Jerry West who also did NOT want to draft Magic Johnson.
Phil wanted and got John Celestand too. remember him?