Are Tim Duncan and Kobe the most overrated players of all-time?

[TonyMontana]

I like Tim Duncan, he is a good guy, but man I don't see how this guy is a top 10 player in NBA History other than he was the one constant on probably the best run organization in pro sports for his entire career. The Spurs coaching and front office is more to credit than just Duncan. Look how Duncan settled into a bench player this year and had his worst year ever by far(still better than Kobe though :D ), but they STILL won more games than ever before in franchise history.

Most of his rings he wasn't even the leading scorer on his team. Just the one constant on a great franchise. I honestly don't even think he was individually better than David Robinson. He just came around at a better time when the organization became more competent/got better players.

Kobe is in a similar boat, but I think it's more obvious to real basketball fans (not casual sportscenter/sneaker dudes) that he's overrated and LAL first round fodder except for when they had Shaq, and prime Pau Gasol who led the best frontcourt in the league at the time. No other dude in top 10 territory shoots 45% or lower for every year of their career.

I would take Dirk over both of these guys as well.

[CJ Mustard]

I like Tim Duncan, he is a good guy, but man I don't see how this guy is a top 10 player in NBA History other than he was the one constant on probably the best run organization in pro sports for his entire career. The Spurs coaching and front office is more to credit than just Duncan. Look how Duncan settled into a bench player this year and had his worst year ever by far(still better than Kobe though :D ), but they STILL won more games than ever before in franchise history.

Most of his rings he wasn't even the leading scorer on his team. Just the one constant on a great franchise. I honestly don't even think he was individually better than David Robinson. He just came around at a better time when the organization became more competent/got better players.

Kobe is in a similar boat, but I think it's more obvious to real basketball fans (not casual sportscenter/sneaker dudes) that he's overrated and LAL first round fodder except for when they had Shaq, and prime Pau Gasol who led the best frontcourt in the league at the time. No other dude in top 10 territory shoots 45% or lower for every year of their career.

I would take Dirk over both of these guys as well.
https://m.popkey.co/d94d35/O97G1_s-200x150.gif

[ScalsFan21]

Duncan and Kobe both had golden paths to success, almost from the word go. Both are all-time greats, but I think Duncan is lower-end Top 10 with Hakeem and company, where "12be" is generous from an individual perspective.

I don't think a case for Nowitzki can be argued against Tim, but against Kobe as an individual player... while I'd lean towards Kobe (and accolades make him ahead of him definitively all-time), a debate can be at least had there.

[SouBeachTalents]

I like Tim Duncan, he is a good guy, but man I don't see how this guy is a top 10 player in NBA History other than he was the one constant on probably the best run organization in pro sports for his entire career. The Spurs coaching and front office is more to credit than just Duncan. Look how Duncan settled into a bench player this year and had his worst year ever by far(still better than Kobe though :D ), but they STILL won more games than ever before in franchise history.

Most of his rings he wasn't even the leading scorer on his team. Just the one constant on a great franchise. I honestly don't even think he was individually better than David Robinson. He just came around at a better time when the organization became more competent/got better players.

Kobe is in a similar boat, but I think it's more obvious to real basketball fans (not casual sportscenter/sneaker dudes) that he's overrated and LAL first round fodder except for when they had Shaq, and prime Pau Gasol who led the best frontcourt in the league at the time. No other dude in top 10 territory shoots 45% or lower for every year of their career.

I would take Dirk over both of these guys as well.

1. Duncan was the Spurs leading scorer in the regular season & playoffs in '99, '03, '05, & '07

2. Russell shot even worse than Kobe did

[TonyMontana]

Duncan and Kobe both had golden paths to success, almost from the word go. Both are all-time greats, but I think Duncan is lower-end Top 10 with Hakeem and company, where "12be" is generous from an individual perspective.

I don't think a case for Nowitzki can be argued against Tim, but against Kobe as an individual player... while I'd lean towards Kobe (and accolades make him ahead of him definitively all-time), a debate can be at least had there.

I only mentioned Dirk because he gets comically underrated and is from the same era as those guys.

Dirks entire career is basically like if LeBron stayed on Cleveland for his entire career(His first cleveland cast, not the stacked shit with Kyrie and Love).

Mavericks have been an absolutely terribly run organization which was salvaged by a solid coach in Carlisle, and just the greatness of Dirk.

Mavericks have been consistently good , great when Dirk was in his prime despite never having another elite player next to Dirk. He had Nash before they made it so you can't touch point guards, inwhich he would go on to win consecutive MVPs and he had Jason Kidd at 40 years old. who the **** would his most memorable teammate be looking back?

When you look at how organizations like the Mavs surrounded Dirk compared to what SAS/LAL did with Duncan/Kobe it's not a damn shock as to why the latter won more titles. and it's got nothing to do with the franchise player. people get hyped up giving the #1 player on the team ALL of the credit, and in Duncan/Kobes cases they probably weren't even the #1 player on their championship teams for even half of them.

[TonyMontana]

1. Duncan was the Spurs leading scorer in the regular season & playoffs in '99, '03, '05, & '07

2. Russell shot even worse than Kobe did

1. Parker was the leading scorer in the 07 Finals.

2. I'm not going to look it up, but I bet Manu was in 05 as well since I remember a lot of people were disappointed he didn't win MVP.

99 and 03 were great performances by Duncan, but that shows just how little his prime lasted. By 2005 he was already declining. Compare that to Shaq who started declining around 2005 as well, but the difference is he came into the league like 6 years earlier than Duncan. Duncan just aged gracefully on an organization that let him become a "super-roleplayer" and because of that he had a clear role/was servicable until he was damn 40.

3. Russell played in the 60s and is known for his defense/rebounding not scoring unlike Kobe whose only claim to greatness is his "scoring". In the 60s everyones FG% sucked except Wilt who could just casually lay it up over everyone.

[SouBeachTalents]

1. Parker was the leading scorer in the 07 Finals.

2. I'm not going to look it up, but I bet Manu was in 05 as well since I remember a lot of people were disappointed he didn't win MVP.

99 and 03 were great performances by Duncan, but that shows just how little his prime lasted. By 2005 he was already declining. Compare that to Shaq who started declining around 2005 as well, but the difference is he came into the league like 6 years earlier than Duncan. Duncan just aged gracefully on an organization that let him become a "super-roleplayer" and because of that he had a clear role/was servicable until he was damn 40.

3. Russell played in the 60s and is known for his defense/rebounding not scoring unlike Kobe whose only claim to greatness is his "scoring". In the 60s everyones FG% sucked except Wilt who could just casually lay it up over everyone.

No, Duncan was the leading scorer for the Spurs all season in '05. And lol at cherry picking 4 games in '07 out of a 100 game season and acting like that was the norm. Duncan was the Spurs leading scorer all regular season and through the first 3 rounds of the playoffs. Parker scored more than him in a 4 game sample against one of the worst Finals teams of all time

[TheWinningFam]

Kobe for sure, idk bout duncan he's top 10 imo

[sportjames23]

I like Tim Duncan, he is a good guy, but man I don't see how this guy is a top 10 player in NBA History other than he was the one constant on probably the best run organization in pro sports for his entire career. The Spurs coaching and front office is more to credit than just Duncan. Look how Duncan settled into a bench player this year and had his worst year ever by far(still better than Kobe though :D ), but they STILL won more games than ever before in franchise history.

Most of his rings he wasn't even the leading scorer on his team. Just the one constant on a great franchise. I honestly don't even think he was individually better than David Robinson. He just came around at a better time when the organization became more competent/got better players.

Kobe is in a similar boat, but I think it's more obvious to real basketball fans (not casual sportscenter/sneaker dudes) that he's overrated and LAL first round fodder except for when they had Shaq, and prime Pau Gasol who led the best frontcourt in the league at the time. No other dude in top 10 territory shoots 45% or lower for every year of their career.

I would take Dirk over both of these guys as well.
https://m.popkey.co/d94d35/O97G1_s-200x150.gif

[ArbitraryWater]

Dirk's got an argument, an easy one against Kobe, long shot against Timmy.. but yea

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Where is this narrative coming from that Spurs were an ATG franchise before Tim arrived? They didn't win shit before him and were like Cleveland/Dallas with no rings up to that point. Spurs was not at all comparable to Lakers. Get that shit right.

Duncan was never a bench player. Why lie? He was still their best and most impactful defender THIS season while having decent help, so yeah, they won a lot of games.

Straight up lying about him not being leading scorer for most of his rings. Scoring ain't everything anyway even if he wasn't (which he was) and he was arguably (very arguably) the best/most impactful player on every single title team. I also don't see how you can hold scoring so high when it comes to Duncan and then also shit on Kobe and say scoring doesn't mean anything/Duncan is better, etc. Contradictive/hypocritical.

The organization became more competent BECAUSE of Tim Duncan. Something you don't seem to understand. It wasn't a coincidence. And what better players did they get up to that point outside of Tim Duncan? And up to this point outside of LaMarcus Aldridge? Anyone could of drafted those other guys, they weren't high picks. We have good drafters/scouts/player development, what do you want?

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Duncan and Kobe both had golden paths to success, almost from the word go.

Where is this narrative stemming from? Spurs didn't win anything before Duncan arrived. What golden path of success? A shell-form Robinson coming off of injury and becoming an old man? '99, coming off injury, no longer the player he once was. '03, 38 freaking year old Robinson, second year Parker as second option putting up 14 on 38%, rookie Manu. WTF? Where is the golden path? Nothing was clear here other than that Duncan could carry one of the worst supporting casts in history to a championship.

:oldlol:

[sportjames23]

Spurs5Rings2014 came in this thread guns blazing. :oldlol:

[knicksman]

Coz youre a loser op. Losers care about stats. Just look at robertson, wilt.


But bran is smart tho. He knows hes gonna end up like them so he already colludes at a young age. Too bad, im not one of those sheeps who gets fooled by them

[I<3NBA]

Kobe for sure is overrated.

But the Spurs win none of those rings if Duncan wasn't there. DRob for sure wasn't getting it done.

[f0und]

duncan no

kobe for sure

[Chadwin]

Where is this narrative stemming from? Spurs didn't win anything before Duncan arrived. What golden path of success? A shell-form Robinson coming off of injury and becoming an old man? '99, coming off injury, no longer the player he once was. '03, 38 freaking year old Robinson, second year Parker as second option putting up 14 on 38%, rookie Manu. WTF? Where is the golden path? Nothing was clear here other than that Duncan could carry one of the worst supporting casts in history to a championship.

:oldlol:

Preach on. Duncan had a couple of legendary carry job titles.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe for sure is overrated.

But the Spurs win none of those rings if Duncan wasn't there. DRob for sure wasn't getting it done.

Lol the Lakers win none of those rings if Kobe wasn't there either

[aj1987]

Dirk's got an argument, an easy one against Kobe, long shot against Timmy.. but yea
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

He barely has an argument against Wade. Literally his only one being longevity.

[Anaximandro1]

OP doesn't know what he's talking about ... Duncan was the leading scorer in 1999, 2003, 2005 and 2007

Only Jordan won more titles as #1 ... Kareem won four titles as #1

Duncan has the highest VORP, WS, PER of his era ... prime Duncan was probably better than prime Bird/Magic

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1GArSRhuJlo/V4Ssug3j1WI/AAAAAAAAF8A/rtfF1XZmedM8EcWRG82b-6YvPOcOnIYtACKgB/s1600/17350.jpg

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VSfVH4VeVRw/V4SsupiJ98I/AAAAAAAAF74/b-zzhY96CwkGylYrGSuAzCgme5agsuXyACKgB/s1600/17351.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-E2zE70VEEZs/V4Ssu1WycJI/AAAAAAAAF78/InTd-SGlQKky0T_ydQlt_3uHAFFniSkcQCKgB/s1600/17352.png



and Duncan's longevity was insane ...

Career plus-minus including playoffs since 1996

Tim Duncan +10,000
Dirk Nowitzki +6,725
LeBron James +6,658



Duncan on the Lakers? He could have won 10 rings

Duncan is the most underrated ATG because he played in a small market franchise and never tried to market himself and be bigger than the game. He won more than anyone in the last 20 years. Not enough in the social media era. You need to create drama, buzz, hype ...

[Lebronxrings]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

He barely has an argument against Wade. Literally his only one being longevity.
:biggums:

[SwayDizzle]

the trolling is out of control in this thread.

no, an argument can't be made for dirk against these two. you are talking about GOAT #5 and GOAT #6 here.

[Nastradamus]

I like Tim Duncan, he is a good guy, but man I don't see how this guy is a top 10 player in NBA History other than he was the one constant on probably the best run organization in pro sports for his entire career. The Spurs coaching and front office is more to credit than just Duncan. Look how Duncan settled into a bench player this year and had his worst year ever by far(still better than Kobe though :D ), but they STILL won more games than ever before in franchise history.

Most of his rings he wasn't even the leading scorer on his team. Just the one constant on a great franchise. I honestly don't even think he was individually better than David Robinson. He just came around at a better time when the organization became more competent/got better players.

Kobe is in a similar boat, but I think it's more obvious to real basketball fans (not casual sportscenter/sneaker dudes) that he's overrated and LAL first round fodder except for when they had Shaq, and prime Pau Gasol who led the best frontcourt in the league at the time. No other dude in top 10 territory shoots 45% or lower for every year of their career.

I would take Dirk over both of these guys as well.

Duncan's a beast, but yes he played in a perfect scenario. That said, he was incredibly consistent. Even finishing out his career he was pretty much matching his per 36 numbers for his career. He was never a dominant offensive player, but he was highly consistent and efficient, and he was arguably the best defensive big/player of all time. Leads all time in Drtg for one thing.

[aj1987]

:biggums:
Dirk is not even close to being better than Kobe.

Rings? Kobe.
MVP's? Wash.
FMVP's? Kobe
All-NBA? Kobe.
All-Def? Kobe.
Longevity? Kobe.
Defense? Kobe.
Scoring? Kobe.
Playmaking? Kobe.

Except rebounding, Kobe > Dirk at literally everything. Even if you take his career after Shaq, even that >>> anything Dirk has EVER done in his entire career.

As I said, Dirk barely has a case against Wade. Literally NONE against Kobe.

Long shot against Duncan? :roll:

Duncan is closer to the top 5 than Dirk is to the top 20.

I know that you have to stick with your fellow ****** ass LeBron turds, but leave the basketball discussion to the adults.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You could argue Dirk would've had a better career in Los Angeles, like most other ATGs arguably COULD, but to insinuate that Dirk as of now has a case over Kobe? A guy with a FAR greater resume? Lunacy. To be fair though its always the same idiots making that claim. :oldlol:

[SsKSpurs21]

this may help you understand why the Spurs were so successful as a franchise and why his impact goes beyond the box score... It all started with Tim Duncan

"Inside the league, Tim Duncan became the most influential player of his generation. Though he had little public appeal outside central Texas over his two decades in the league, Duncan ushered in cultural change in NBA practice facilities, locker rooms and executive suites."

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/16989399/why-tim-duncan-most-influential-player

[Carbine]

This is a horrible thread.

[ArbitraryWater]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

He barely has an argument against Wade. Literally his only one being longevity.

:biggums:

[aj1987]

You could argue Dirk would've had a better career in Los Angeles, like most other ATGs arguably COULD, but to insinuate that Dirk as of now has a case over Kobe? A guy with a FAR greater resume? Lunacy. To be fair though its always the same idiots making that claim. :oldlol:
:applause: :applause:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

I only mentioned Dirk because he gets comically underrated and is from the same era as those guys.

Dirks entire career is basically like if LeBron stayed on Cleveland for his entire career(His first cleveland cast, not the stacked shit with Kyrie and Love).

Mavericks have been an absolutely terribly run organization which was salvaged by a solid coach in Carlisle, and just the greatness of Dirk.

Mavericks have been consistently good , great when Dirk was in his prime despite never having another elite player next to Dirk. He had Nash before they made it so you can't touch point guards, inwhich he would go on to win consecutive MVPs and he had Jason Kidd at 40 years old. who the **** would his most memorable teammate be looking back?

When you look at how organizations like the Mavs surrounded Dirk compared to what SAS/LAL did with Duncan/Kobe it's not a damn shock as to why the latter won more titles. and it's got nothing to do with the franchise player. people get hyped up giving the #1 player on the team ALL of the credit, and in Duncan/Kobes cases they probably weren't even the #1 player on their championship teams for even half of them.

You're underrateding Dirk's casts/rosters while overrating Duncan/Kobe's. SAS in particular, didn't attract any big time free agents other than Aldridge which was when Duncan was already an old man and way past his prime. Mavs had just as many chances to draft talents on par with what the Spurs put around Duncan. I think this is more of a matter of Duncan making everyone around him better at a GOAT level than him having such amazing casts. Who's to say Parker, Manu, Leonard, etc would have been what they were had Duncan not been there? If anything, Duncan doesn't receive ENOUGH credit for making those guys and Pop for that matter. Guy was literally about to be fired before Duncan won him some chips. No real coaching either, just throw it to the GOAT PF and GTFO of the way.

[3ball]

.
Best players Jordan faced:


1. Kareem
2. Magic
3. Bird
4. Shaq


Best players Lebron faced:


1. Shaq*
2. Duncan*
3. Kobe*
4. Garnett*


*Jordan won every major award over these players in 1998 (when each guy was an all-star)


Jordan dominated the best players Lebron ever faced, while facing better players that Lebron never faced... :confusedshrug:

[3ball]

whoops wrong thread

[Spurs5Rings2014]

1. Parker was the leading scorer in the 07 Finals.

2. I'm not going to look it up, but I bet Manu was in 05 as well since I remember a lot of people were disappointed he didn't win MVP.

99 and 03 were great performances by Duncan, but that shows just how little his prime lasted. By 2005 he was already declining. Compare that to Shaq who started declining around 2005 as well, but the difference is he came into the league like 6 years earlier than Duncan. Duncan just aged gracefully on an organization that let him become a "super-roleplayer" and because of that he had a clear role/was servicable until he was damn 40.

3. Russell played in the 60s and is known for his defense/rebounding not scoring unlike Kobe whose only claim to greatness is his "scoring". In the 60s everyones FG% sucked except Wilt who could just casually lay it up over everyone.

1.) Duncan was leading scorer entire regular season and play offs up to the finals. Duncan doesn't statpad and values winning above all else. If Parker is leading points, Duncan isn't going to just statpad in garbage time or w/e to ramp up his points. He doesn't care about any of that and just wants to win. Cleveland had no chance of winning that series, so Duncan didn't need to go to town scoring the ball. Since when is scoring all that makes one the best player anyway? Duncan clearly was the most impactful and best player that season, even in the finals despite not scoring as many easy lay ups against garbage perimeter defense.

2.) You not looking it up was your first mistake and why you're a horrible B-Ball mind. But we already knew that, didn't we?

He wasn't declining, he just was facing one of the GOAT defenses. Not only that, but Duncan wasn't a selfish player. He saw Parker and Manu coming, so he let them shine and get theirs, too. You really don't think Duncan could of kept chucking all these years and been one of the GOAT scorers of all time if he wanted? That isn't his mindset. Winning takes precedence above all else. He has a team first attitude, that's just the type of man he is.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

OP doesn't know what he's talking about ... Duncan was the leading scorer in 1999, 2003, 2005 and 2007

Only Jordan won more titles as #1 ... Kareem won four titles as #1

Duncan has the highest VORP, WS, PER of his era ... prime Duncan was probably better than prime Bird/Magic

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1GArSRhuJlo/V4Ssug3j1WI/AAAAAAAAF8A/rtfF1XZmedM8EcWRG82b-6YvPOcOnIYtACKgB/s1600/17350.jpg

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VSfVH4VeVRw/V4SsupiJ98I/AAAAAAAAF74/b-zzhY96CwkGylYrGSuAzCgme5agsuXyACKgB/s1600/17351.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-E2zE70VEEZs/V4Ssu1WycJI/AAAAAAAAF78/InTd-SGlQKky0T_ydQlt_3uHAFFniSkcQCKgB/s1600/17352.png



and Duncan's longevity was insane ...

Career plus-minus including playoffs since 1996

Tim Duncan +10,000
Dirk Nowitzki +6,725
LeBron James +6,658

Duncan on the Lakers? He could have won 10 rings

Duncan is the most underrated ATG because he played in a small market franchise and never tried to market himself and be bigger than the game. He won more than anyone in the last 20 years. Not enough in the social media era. You need to create drama, buzz, hype ...

Best post in this thread. You da real MVP.

:bowdown:

[T_L_P]

I guess Magic isn't in the top 10 either. He played next to the 2nd GOAT and had one of the best coaches ever.

Oh, and unlike Duncan/Kobe he didn't even play in a strong conference. The 80s West was akin to the 00s East. :oldlol:

[riseagainst]

Neither are overrated. They are both legendary players and all time greats.

Duncan being the greatest PF ever.
Kobe being the 2nd greatest SG ever.

[SouBeachTalents]

whoops wrong thread

Lol, you're such a fakkit

[Rocketswin2013]

.
Best players Jordan faced:


1. Kareem
2. Magic
3. Bird
4. Shaq


Best players Lebron faced:


1. Shaq*
2. Duncan*
3. Kobe*
4. Garnett*


*Jordan won every major award over these players in 1998 (when each guy was an all-star)


Jordan dominated the best players Lebron ever faced, while facing better players that Lebron never faced... :confusedshrug:
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

.
Best players Jordan faced:


1. Kareem
2. Magic
3. Bird
4. Shaq


Best players Lebron faced:


1. Shaq*
2. Duncan*
3. Kobe*
4. Garnett*


*Jordan won every major award over these players in 1998 (when each guy was an all-star)


Jordan dominated the best players Lebron ever faced, while facing better players that Lebron never faced... :confusedshrug:

Jordan never faced Kareem in the play offs, which is what matters. Magic's team was injured and washed up. Bird destroyed Jordan in the play offs. Shaq whooped Jordan, too.

Most of those players were out of their prime/peak/had just entered the league when Jordan faced them with a stacked roster loaded with HOF'ers/ATG's.

[Smoke117]

No, Allen Iverson is. They are both overrated though.

[CuterThanRubio]

Duncan's reign was cancerous to the NBA!

99 = He and Robinson demolished an 8th seed during a shortened season

03 = Lakers finally ran out of gas after 3peating, the Nets were not competitive in either of the consecutive finals they appeared in

05 = Horry

07 = Horry and Tim Donaghy, Suns were clearly the better team and LeBron had ZERO help, they would have been swept by anyone from the west that year

The only impressive title his team captured happened to be during a time when he played a reduced role, he was a great player who capitalized on favorable circumstances but he did not have a lasting positive impact on the sport, he is highly overrated!

I'm glad he's done and I'm sure Adam Silver is even happier!

[tpols]

Look how Duncan settled into a bench player this year and had his worst year ever by far(still better than Kobe though :D ), but they STILL won more games than ever before in franchise history.

and they lost in the second round dummy .. regular season wins means almost nothing.. bench, coaching, and just simply giving effort can get you a lot of regular season wins. Stars shine in the playoffs. And none of san antonios were on prime duncan's level .. thats why they've been a first/second round team recently despite 60+ wins.



Most of duncans rings he wasn't even the leading scorer on his team.


:biggums:

aren't you the guy that usually talks impact.. what a dumbed down analysis.



Kobe is in a similar boat, but I think it's more obvious to real basketball fans that he's overrated and LAL first round fodder except for when they had Shaq, and prime Pau Gasol who led the best frontcourt in the league at the time. No other dude in top 10 territory shoots 45% or lower for every year of their career.



lol what has Pau Gasol done outside Kobe .. ? whole lot of nothin .. Pau Gasol is no different from handful of ~20/10 big men that graced the league every year he played. If Kobe won with Zbo and marc gasol we'd have you hear saying the same thing about how the grizz are top frontcourts carrying etcetera


additionally .. Shaq needed Kobe and Wade to win rings. Top 2 and 3 SG's of all time. Kobe needed Pau Gasol .. maybe top 15 PF all time ?? It's no contest.

[bobopenguin]

lol op does not know what he is talking about.

getting owned by spur fans. :lol :lol :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

and they lost in the second round dummy .. regular season wins means almost nothing.. bench, coaching, and just simply giving effort can get you a lot of regular season wins. Stars shine in the playoffs. And none of san antonios were on prime duncan's level .. thats why they've been a first/second round team recently despite 60+ wins.





:biggums:

aren't you the guy that usually talks impact.. what a dumbed down analysis.





lol what has Pau Gasol done outside Kobe .. ? whole lot of nothin .. Pau Gasol is no different from handful of ~20/10 big men that graced the league every year he played. If Kobe won with Zbo and marc gasol we'd have you hear saying the same thing about how the grizz are top frontcourts carrying etcetera


additionally .. Shaq needed Kobe and Wade to win rings. Top 2 and 3 SG's of all time. Kobe needed Pau Gasol .. maybe top 15 PF all time ?? It's no contest.

bs.. that would be the Bosh/Love type..

Pau led 3 playoff teams in the West and even a 50 win season... led a damn post-season in WIN SHARES :oldlol: Had thousands of ppl vouching for his FMVP, and did this:

-In the 4th quarters of the '09 and '10 NBA Finals:

Kobe shoots: 22-74 (29.7%)
Gasol shoots: 20-34 (58.8%)

[Anaximandro1]

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-B8ouq1wfhK4/V4VGHsU_6vI/AAAAAAAAF8w/_DQdxBMgdowR81c9qbOrYBOZKR_pISVFgCLcB/s1600/3.jpg


Retirement Press Conference

Coach Pop
[quote]"I would not be here if it wasn't for Tim Duncan...he's made livings for hundreds of us."

"People who know me, know I wouldn't be here without Tim Duncan...I'd be (coaching) in a Budweiser league somewhere in America."

"He was over himself when he came in. Even after all his accolades"

"I think the thing that made him happiest...was the time he spent with his children before games."

"I'm trying to wrap my head around why I'm here and he's not."

"You and I both know he's too smart to coach, and that's for sure! So I don't think we'll see Timmy going up and down the sidelines.."

[tpols]

bs.. that would be the Bosh/Love type..
Pau led 3 playoff teams in the West and even a 50 win season...


And playoffs please ?

-----

i'll answer it for you .. 3 sweeps .. lol.



led a damn post-season in WIN SHARES :oldlol: Had thousands of ppl vouching for his FMVP, and did this:



And Kobe led a post season in win shares over peak Shaq .. so you have a dilemma here AW. You can claim Pau > Kobe in that year (which .. is beyond a joke), but then you'd have to concede than a first year prime kobe was better than peak Shaq. :oldlol:

you're kinda ****ed there, huh?

[ArbitraryWater]

And playoffs please ?

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i'll answer it for you .. 3 sweeps .. lol.





And Kobe led a post season in win shares over peak Shaq .. so you have a dilemma here AW. You can claim Pau > Kobe in that year (which .. is beyond a joke), but then you'd have to concede than a first year prime kobe was better than peak Shaq. :oldlol:

you're kinda ****ed there, huh?


http://r28.imgfast.net/users/2813/22/97/24/smiles/2238782717.gif



No no no....

thats one filter, that one filter is the only thing that supports Kobe being on Shaqs level in '01 (its like .1 difference between them in '01), and he massively lacks behind in all other metrics... Gasol also led in Ortg/Drtg, led them in regular season per, and behind in postseason per by just .7...

gotta look at multiple advanced stats my man :rockon: