For those defending 2/7.. saying it's better to reach the finals than to never:

[ripthekik]

Yes, yes, usually that'd be correct. I agree, reaching the finals, is usually more impressive than not. HOWEVER, with Lebron here, we are talking about a different story.

Out of this 7 trips:
Are we forgetting that year after year, he has the best team in the East, the weak East, and that usually he has 2 all stars with him? This isn't the same as if he was an Iverson-like 2001 playoff team, single handedly taking his team to the finals every damn year. Any team that can reach the finals FROM the west, 7 times in a row is goddamn impressive. Warriors had a tough path, with that game series with the thunder. Lebron's teams? Hell no. His version of conference finals: kyle lowry and derozan??? while curry had westbrook and kevin durant.

Year after year, Lebron has the best eastern team, easier competition in the East, and yet he could only produce 2 championships from it. Going to the finals 7 times in a row would be impressive, but not from Bron. He fully deserves all criticisms if he manages to lose again this year, going 2/7. It's on him.

[STATUTORY]

finals appearances don't mean shit when you coming out of the East

Bran would had about 5 first round exits if he was in the West

[Quickening]

Rent free

[ripthekik]

finals appearances don't mean shit when you coming out of the East

Bran would had about 5 first round exits if he was in the West
Damn right. Beating the Celtics, Raptors, Hawks.. whatever isn't impressive. More than half of the West can accomplish that and reach the finals.

In the West? Warriors, Spurs, Thunder, Blazers, Clippers.. now I'd be impressed if Lebron can make it out west at all.

[West-Side]

This is highly circumstantial.
Consider the context.

LeBron played with Bosh & Wade and now he plays with Love & Kyrie.
During these 6 years he made the finals 6 times.

His competition in the east, the obstacle of reaching the finals, was ridiculously easy.

I mean Bosh & Wade both were two of the ten best players out east (not including LeBron). Wade was easily one of the five best players in the east during that time.

Kyrie & Love are both two of the ten best players out east (not including LeBron).

So basically LeBron played with two of the nine best players in the entire conference for the last six years. And I'm actually being generous here. You could make a case that Kyrie, Love, Wade & Bosh are even better.

Bottom line, he achieved this feat in a very weak conference while playing on a team with other stars. The fact that he is 2 for 6 in the NBA finals only solidifies this point. The west is condensed with talent and the parity in talent between the east and the west is non-existent.

What exactly is so impressive about making the NBA finals 6 straight years?

[Hey Yo]

Yes, yes, usually that'd be correct. I agree, reaching the finals, is usually more impressive than not. HOWEVER, with Lebron here, we are talking about a different story.

Out of this 7 trips:
Are we forgetting that year after year, he has the best team in the East, the weak East, and that usually he has 2 all stars with him? This isn't the same as if he was an Iverson-like 2001 playoff team, single handedly taking his team to the finals every damn year. Any team that can reach the finals FROM the west, 7 times in a row is goddamn impressive. Warriors had a tough path, with that game series with the thunder. Lebron's teams? Hell no. His version of conference finals: kyle lowry and derozan??? while curry had westbrook and kevin durant.

Year after year, Lebron has the best eastern team, easier competition in the East, and yet he could only produce 2 championships from it. Going to the finals 7 times in a row would be impressive, but not from Bron. He fully deserves all criticisms if he manages to lose again this year, going 2/7. It's on him.
Beating Detroit in the 2007 ECF as the underdog wasn't impressive? A 22yr old scoring like 27 straight points FTW is something that just happens all the time??

So in other words, when the West wins the title, it doesn't count as much cause it was against a shitty East team and when the East wins, then they're definitely the best in the league due to beating Goliath?

[sd3035]

making the Finals in the east is worth as much as a 1st round exit in the west

[aj1987]

Chokebe turds in meltdown mode. :roll:

[Snarky Narc]

making the Finals in the east is worth as much as a 1st round exit in the west
I'd say 2nd round exit.

[tmacattack33]

Yes, yes, usually that'd be correct. I agree, reaching the finals, is usually more impressive than not. HOWEVER, with Lebron here, we are talking about a different story.

Out of this 7 trips:
Are we forgetting that year after year, he has the best team in the East, the weak East, and that usually he has 2 all stars with him? This isn't the same as if he was an Iverson-like 2001 playoff team, single handedly taking his team to the finals every damn year. Any team that can reach the finals FROM the west, 7 times in a row is goddamn impressive. Warriors had a tough path, with that game series with the thunder. Lebron's teams? Hell no. His version of conference finals: kyle lowry and derozan??? while curry had westbrook and kevin durant.

Year after year, Lebron has the best eastern team, easier competition in the East, and yet he could only produce 2 championships from it. Going to the finals 7 times in a row would be impressive, but not from Bron. He fully deserves all criticisms if he manages to lose again this year, going 2/7. It's on him.

If anybody is arguing that going to the Finals is better than not making it, they are incorrect.

They are incorrect because it is not even an opinion and therefore they shouldn't even be arguing it. It is a FACT that making the Finals is better than not making it.

[ripthekik]

So in other words, when the West wins the title, it doesn't count as much cause it was against a shitty East team and when the East wins, then they're definitely the best in the league due to beating Goliath?
when a team from the West wins the title, it's impressive because they beat their western conference foes. The east doesn't matter, it's just like a victory lap after they reached the finish line.

[NBAGOAT]

none of what you said still counters the point that it's better to make the Finals that go out early. There's no way he be better off if he lost to the Raptors this year for example. If you want to say it's not impressive making the Finals, just say he only has 2 rings when he should have more, definitely more legit than this 2/7 crap.

[Marchesk]

Lebron is going to retire a top 5 player all-time. His finals records doesn't matter unless you're comparing him to Jordan. He's like Wilt in that regard. A dominant career isn't negated by your team losing in the finals.

And yes, Lebron will rank higher than Duncan all-time, when all is said and done. There is no doubt.

[riseagainst]

One of the GOAT posters is finally back!

:bowdown:

[ripthekik]

none of what you said still counters the point that it's better to make the Finals that go out early. There's no way he be better off if he lost to the Raptors this year for example. If you want to say it's not impressive making the Finals, just say he only has 2 rings when he should have more, definitely more legit than this 2/7 crap.
so, he has the best team to crush the East, has all that he needs. The fact that he beat those crap East teams proves that he's got a legitimate team. Yet in the finals, finally facing competition, he loses, gets exposed.

Now, if he actually lost earlier, we'd have known he had a weak team, or whatever excuse. Like when he was a rookie.. like most years when Cavs were crap. Nobody gives him crap for those, because it's on the organization for building those trash teams. But being good enough to make the finals, and then to lose year after year? It's on him.

[Lebron23]

You are still a terrible poster.

[ripthekik]

You are still a terrible poster.
"3rd Greatest Player when Rings and Finals records don't matter.. only stats"

[aj1987]

when a team from the West wins the title, it's impressive because they beat their western conference foes. The east doesn't matter, it's just like a victory lap after they reached the finish line.
Yeah, like the elite teams that the Warriors had to go through last season. :roll:

[Hey Yo]

when a team from the West wins the title, it's impressive because they beat their western conference foes. The east doesn't matter, it's just like a victory lap after they reached the finish line.
OKC is the only team of significance that GS has beating in the postseason the last 2yrs. They lost 2gms in the Finals last year and were down 1-2 against LeBron and a bunch of postseason virgins. How is that impressive??

Remember at the beginning of the season this year how GS had a chip on their shoulder cause people were saying they beat nothing but injured teams in route to the title? Yeah...they were pissed cause they knew it was true.



btw, you forgot to address:

"Beating Detroit in the 2007 ECF as the underdog wasn't impressive? A 22yr old scoring like 27 straight points FTW is something that just happens all the time??"

[retaxis]

Lebron only lost once in the finals as the favourites which was against Dallas. Every other time he was the underdog

[NBAGOAT]

so, he has the best team to crush the East, has all that he needs. The fact that he beat those crap East teams proves that he's got a legitimate team. Yet in the finals, finally facing competition, he loses, gets exposed.

Now, if he actually lost earlier, we'd have known he had a weak team, or whatever excuse. Like when he was a rookie.. like most years when Cavs were crap. Nobody gives him crap for those, because it's on the organization for building those trash teams. But being good enough to make the finals, and then to lose year after year? It's on him.

or maybe he has a legitimate team that's just not the best team in the league. :facepalm And you don't need to just see how a team does in the playoffs to know if they're legitimate. Everyone knew the Cavs were pretty legitimate this year and there have been teams who have even lost in the 1st round that were legitimate.

[iamgine]

Yes, yes, usually that'd be correct. I agree, reaching the finals, is usually more impressive than not. HOWEVER, with Lebron here, we are talking about a different story.

Out of this 7 trips:
Are we forgetting that year after year, he has the best team in the East, the weak East, and that usually he has 2 all stars with him? This isn't the same as if he was an Iverson-like 2001 playoff team, single handedly taking his team to the finals every damn year. Any team that can reach the finals FROM the west, 7 times in a row is goddamn impressive. Warriors had a tough path, with that game series with the thunder. Lebron's teams? Hell no. His version of conference finals: kyle lowry and derozan??? while curry had westbrook and kevin durant.

Year after year, Lebron has the best eastern team, easier competition in the East, and yet he could only produce 2 championships from it. Going to the finals 7 times in a row would be impressive, but not from Bron. He fully deserves all criticisms if he manages to lose again this year, going 2/7. It's on him.
This is just bad memory.

In 2007, he had no star in his team. His 2nd best averaged like 12 ppg and his coach was Mike Brown.
In 2014, Bosh and Wade averaged like 14 ppg in the finals while Lebron averaged 28.
Last season he had no Irving or Love in the finals.
This season isn't over yet, but they're going against a 73-9 team as the underdog.

Really the only one that's on him was 2011 if you consider the circumstances.

Making the finals really is better than not making it. Even MJ wouldn't win if he didn't have Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackson.

[choppermagic]

Lebron is going to retire a top 5 player all-time. His finals records doesn't matter unless you're comparing him to Jordan. He's like Wilt in that regard. A dominant career isn't negated by your team losing in the finals.

And yes, Lebron will rank higher than Duncan all-time, when all is said and done. There is no doubt.


His finals records doesnt' count? If he retires with 2 rings and wants to be compared against guys with 5-6 rings, it's going to come into consideration. Continual failure on the big stage is going to stick in people's minds when he think of him. Also, he's still in his prime. When he goes through his decline, people are going to see a different side of him and i dont think it will be pretty. Those flops are going to get more and more embarrassing.

[MP.Trey]

So you're saying he would've been better off losing to weak East competition with super teams? Great logic.

[Wally450]

6 straight Finals appearances. Who else done it in the last 50 years?

[miggyme1]

OKC is the only team of significance that GS has beating in the postseason the last 2yrs. They lost 2gms in the Finals last year and were down 1-2 against LeBron and a bunch of postseason virgins. How is that impressive??

Remember at the beginning of the season this year how GS had a chip on their shoulder cause people were saying they beat nothing but injured teams in route to the title? Yeah...they were pissed cause they knew it was true.



btw, you forgot to address:

"Beating Detroit in the 2007 ECF as the underdog wasn't impressive? A 22yr old scoring like 27 straight points FTW is something that just happens all the time??"


you don't know what the fucc u talking about. people said they beat a injured CAVS team. pelicans,grizz(conley got injured in first round against blazers but was back with the mask for warriors series and grizz took a 2-1 lead) and rockets were ALL HEALTHY LAST YEAR IN THE PLAYOFFS.


If you gone speak something speak the truth dummy

[Mr. Jabbar]

making the Finals in the east is worth as much as a 1st round exit in the west

Exactly

[SouBeachTalents]

The East has been terrible during LeBron's Finals runs, still doesn't change the fact that it's better to make the Finals than lose to the Raptors or Hawks

[West-Side]

If his final appearances were as impressive as they actually seem, he'd win more than 2 out of 5 titles. Considering the only two titles he did win was on a team (he himself) expected to win 6...7...8... championships with.

Now he conveniently goes to Cleveland after they stack up on young talent. :facepalm

Dude literally colluded to try and win titles, and still failed miserably.

And we should be applauding this?
If we consider LeBron's pure talent, his accomplishments and statistics. He is very well one of the best 3/4 players of all-time. If we consider his mentality, winning championships etc.

How the **** can you put him in the top 5? Heck, even the top 10?

Guy will go down as one of the biggest form over substance players in history.

You know what this means? It means on the surface he's a dominant specimen who can carry a team when things are easy, and completely folds under pressure. If every team's goal is to win a CHAMPIONSHIP, then how the **** can you sit there and tell me there aren't more than 10 players in the history of this league you'd pick over LeBron, to help you accomplish this goal.

If (or should I say, when) he losses to Golden State, his legacy is done in terms of ever being comparable to guys like Kareem, Magic & Jordan. He just doesn't have the same ability to carry a team when things get rough. His fan boys can pick and choose their arguments by selecting particular games where he played great (ex: Detroit), but when the history books are written, the only thing people will remember is that he won only 2 titles out of 7 tries as of 2016. And he played on ridiculously stacked teams in very weak conferences.

Context is a mother****er ain't it?

[NBAGOAT]

If his final appearances were as impressive as they actually seem, he'd win more than 2 out of 5 titles. Considering the only two titles he did win was on a team (he himself) expected to win 6...7...8... championships with.

Now he conveniently goes to Cleveland after they stack up on young talent. :facepalm

Dude literally colluded to try and win titles, and still failed miserably.

And we should be applauding this?
If we consider LeBron's pure talent, his accomplishments and statistics. He is very well one of the best 3/4 players of all-time. If we consider his mentality, winning championships etc.

How the **** can you put him in the top 5? Heck, even the top 10?

Guy will go down as one of the biggest form over substance players in history.

You know what this means? It means on the surface he's a dominant specimen who can carry a team when things are easy, and completely folds under pressure. If every team's goal is to win a CHAMPIONSHIP, then how the **** can you sit there and tell me there aren't more than 10 players in the history of this league you'd pick over LeBron, to help you accomplish this goal.

If (or should I say, when) he losses to Golden State, his legacy is done in terms of ever being comparable to guys like Kareem, Magic & Jordan. He just doesn't have the same ability to carry a team when things get rough. His fan boys can pick and choose their arguments by selecting particular games where he played great (ex: Detroit), but when the history books are written, the only thing people will remember is that he won only 2 titles out of 7 tries as of 2016. And he played on ridiculously stacked teams in very weak conferences.

Context is a mother****er ain't it?

indeed context is a mother****er. I'm sure he would've left the cavs the 1st time if he was playing with another top 5 player of all time and one more hall of famer like magic and kareem were fortunate enough too. Ridiculously stacked teams in a weak conference applies too. The only difference was Showtime was usually the most talented team in the league while it's not that obvious for Bron's teams.

[Hey Yo]

you don't know what the fucc u talking about. people said they beat a injured CAVS team. pelicans,grizz(conley got injured in first round against blazers but was back with the mask for warriors series and grizz took a 2-1 lead) and rockets were ALL HEALTHY LAST YEAR IN THE PLAYOFFS.


If you gone speak something speak the truth dummy
Houston may have been healthy, but out of the 16 teams in the postseason last year, Houston was 2nd to last in team defense giving up 110ppg and had the most turnovers per game at 19.0.

[warriorfan]

He tampered with his own conference, not once but TWICE! :lol

[rmt]

I'd say 2nd round exit.

Look at SAS/LAC in the first round last year.

[aj1987]

If his final appearances were as impressive as they actually seem, he'd win more than 2 out of 5 titles. Considering the only two titles he did win was on a team (he himself) expected to win 6...7...8... championships with.

Now he conveniently goes to Cleveland after they stack up on young talent. :facepalm

Dude literally colluded to try and win titles, and still failed miserably.

And we should be applauding this?
If we consider LeBron's pure talent, his accomplishments and statistics. He is very well one of the best 3/4 players of all-time. If we consider his mentality, winning championships etc.

How the **** can you put him in the top 5? Heck, even the top 10?

Guy will go down as one of the biggest form over substance players in history.

You know what this means? It means on the surface he's a dominant specimen who can carry a team when things are easy, and completely folds under pressure. If every team's goal is to win a CHAMPIONSHIP, then how the **** can you sit there and tell me there aren't more than 10 players in the history of this league you'd pick over LeBron, to help you accomplish this goal.

If (or should I say, when) he losses to Golden State, his legacy is done in terms of ever being comparable to guys like Kareem, Magic & Jordan. He just doesn't have the same ability to carry a team when things get rough. His fan boys can pick and choose their arguments by selecting particular games where he played great (ex: Detroit), but when the history books are written, the only thing people will remember is that he won only 2 titles out of 7 tries as of 2016. And he played on ridiculously stacked teams in very weak conferences.

Context is a mother****er ain't it?
Kobe had a 'bad' team for like 2 seasons during his prime and dude bitched and cried and threatened to leave until the FO made moves. LeBron stuck with garbage for the first 7 seasons of his career. You want to talk about context and ignore Wade being constantly injuries? Bosh? Irving and Love being injured in the PO's last season.

What you're talking about is not context. It's more of you being pissed off beyond reason because LeBron eclipsed Kobe's 20 season career in 12.

[G-Funk]

Bottom line is if he plays out West he only makes the Finals twice at best.

[Mr. Jabbar]

lewhos finals trips mean literally NOTHING

I LOVE IT!

https://media.giphy.com/media/bmujtlix2RKZG/giphy.gif

[jlip]

OP's logic-

Losing to "weak" Eastern competition and not getting the Finals is more impressive than actually beating said "weak" competition.

[guy]

Its not better to lose earlier. With that said, I'd say its fair to make the joke when Lebron fans feel the need to point out reaching the Finals and losing as some great accomplishment, even though we never did that before. No one ever gave a shit about the multiple times Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, etc. made it to the Finals and lost.

[InsanityKills]

http://www.photofile.com/Original/AA/TC/aatc186.jpg

Eat dick OP!!!!:hammertime:

[red1]

another one!!!

http://replygif.net/i/538.gif