Anyone else not enamoured with the 3 point era?

[Bourne]

I'm finding myself turned off by the focus on the long ball. It feels odd to call it cheap and skill-less, because in reality it is just so much more efficient, but I find that it is similar to get a get out of jail free card.

3 point basketball is less scientific, to me. A team can run a beautifully designed play for a cut to the basket, or a big can display his agility, strength, and dexterity on a nice post up, or a gifted two-guard can dissect a defender and hit a nice J.... but all three beautiful plays lose to a Terrence Ross call-of-duty-camper-level three pointer.

[inclinerator]

it's good when it's wide open but i hate watching teams spam it even if it's contested

[warriorfan]

http://s1.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/curry-long-range-three-pointer-stephen-curry-gifs.gif

http://s32.postimg.org/h77jgx5xv/curry_one_legged_three_pointer_stephen_curry_gif.g if

https://static-ssl.businessinsider.com/image/5527cfc96da811491d1a6e48/stephcurry3gif2.gif

https://41dcdfcd4dea0e5aba20-931851ca4d0d7cdafe33022cf8264a37.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.c om/8644734_steph-curry-signed-with-under-armour-after_te91ee31c.gif

[DonDadda59]

Checking in

[bdreason]

I'm a Warriors fan, and I'm not a fan of the excessive 3-point shooting.

The NBA game in general just has far less variety than in the past. Almost every team plays the same way; spread the court, run the high P&R/P. Since it's so hard to defend the perimeter, teams are forced to bring an extra defender, and that opens up the 3-point shot. Rinse, repeat. :sleeping


Now, the Warriors actually have some offensive variety, despite the number of 3's they take. Some teams just spam P&R/P though. Especially teams that play traditional Centers like the Clippers, Pistons, Jazz, Rockets, etc.

[MP.Trey]

3ball.

[Showtime80']

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!

I have just watched the Atlanta Hawks on 4 possessions in A ROW during the fourth quarter where they were either up by 2, down by 2 or tied where they had A CLEAR LANE ON THE FAST BREAK TO THE BASKET!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!? But instead TRIED to kick it out for a corner 3?!?!?! Needless to say NONE of those possessions ended in scores and virtually GAVE THE GAME away to the Cavs!!!.

This is turning in a pathetic display to say the least. 3 pointers used to come off double teams to the post or kickouts after defenses collapse on the penetrators on the half court or fast break, not this taking the air out of the ball by the supposed "PG" for 15 seconds before deciding to pass the ball or jack up a contested 3 himself or sacrificing a an open layup or short mid range shot to pass it out again for a 3!!!!

We are watching the DUMBEST for of basketball the NBA has had in a long time and we're not even seeing the worst of it, get ready for teams combining for a 100 3-'s in a few years!!!

The millennial generation doesn't have the time or the intelligence to learn the games basic fundamentals and skills to dominate EVERY AREA from the post to the 3 point line.

3 pointer fest for the next 10 years!!!

[NBAGOAT]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!

I have just watched the Atlanta Hawks on 4 possessions in A ROW during the fourth quarter where they were either up by 2, down by 2 or tied where they had A CLEAR LANE ON THE FAST BREAK TO THE BASKET!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!? But instead TRIED to kick it out for a corner 3?!?!?! Needless to say NONE of those possessions ended in scores and virtually GAVE THE GAME away to the Cavs!!!.

This is turning in a pathetic display to say the least. 3 pointers used to come off double teams to the post or kickouts after defenses collapse on the penetrators on the half court or fast break, not this taking the air out of the ball by the supposed "PG" for 15 seconds before deciding to pass the ball or jack up a contested 3 himself or sacrificing a an open layup or short mid range shot to pass it out again for a 3!!!!

We are watching the DUMBEST for of basketball the NBA has had in a long time and we're not even seeing the worst of it, get ready for teams combining for a 100 3-'s in a few years!!!

The millennial generation doesn't have the time or the intelligence to learn the games basic fundamentals and skills to dominate EVERY AREA from the post to the 3 point line.

3 pointer fest for the next 10 years!!!

And yet teams still have no problem scoring efficiently. I partly agree with OP it can get a little repetitive and frustrating at times. However the 3 pointer is still fun to watch when teams are making them. Most people love watching the Warriors and no one would complain if the Hawks went like 15/30 next game from 3. Spurs might slow down the 3 pt trend however, they're definitely more of a mid range post up type team now and they're doing great.

[SCdac]

I think I could agree with that statement, I'm not too enamored by it. More so I don't like watching individual players take upwards of 10 or more three's in one game. Kevin Love his last couple seasons in Minnesota he was just launching three after three . It feels like I'm watching a video game, the way we used to play NBA2k when we got lazy or wanted to make a lazy comeback. But I like the 3 in general, it made the game more fun imo. But the use of them has increased steadily over the last two decades. I made a thread about it awhile back, the uptick in threes

[Bourne]

It has grown very tiresome. It is like using the cape in super mario world to fly over the whole level... fun and exciting but you literally skip over the intricacies of the level! Basketball purists might be awed by Steph Curry's game, but when Atlanta looks off a wide open down low Horford in favour of yet another 3, they get sad.

[Showtime80']

The NBA game has become DUMBED DOWN!!!!

What do you think is harder and takes longer to develop, Kareem's, McHale's, Hakeem's, Malone's, Worthy's etc post up and mid range skills or get 3 point range?!?

Magic's, Isiah's, KJ's, Price's, Cheek's, Stockton's floor leadership and overall quarterbacking IQ or get 3 point range!?!?

The two most important positions on the floor, the pass first PG and dominant low post Center have become EXTINCT because modern players want to jack up 3 points and long jumpers!

That's PART OF THE REASONS the present game looks like CRAP!

[NBAGOAT]

The NBA game has become DUMBED DOWN!!!!

What do you think is harder and takes longer to develop, Kareem's, McHale's, Hakeem's, Malone's, Worthy's etc post up and mid range skills or get 3 point range?!?

Magic's, Isiah's, KJ's, Price's, Cheek's, Stockton's floor leadership and overall quarterbacking IQ or get 3 point range!?!?

The two most important positions on the floor, the pass first PG and dominant low post Center have become EXTINCT because modern players want to jack up 3 points and long jumpers!

That's PART OF THE REASONS the present game looks like CRAP!

So what you're saying is you would rather spend years developing skills instead of months to get similar results. Maybe it's the older era guys who were "dumber". Also get out of here with your era bias not even mentioning cp3, nash, or kidd who have as much floor leadership as the guys you listed. Maybe the game does look like crap to you which is subjective but teams don't care how entertaining they look, they just want to win.

[DatAsh]

We are watching the DUMBEST for of basketball the NBA has had in a long time and we're not even seeing the worst of it,

I'd say it's just the opposite. Teams are finally starting to realize just how broken the 3pt shot really is. It's worth 50% more points, and it's no where near 50% harder to make.

The top players that have been practicing it since they were young are becoming far more efficient than past players because they spend their time practicing more efficient shots(3 point shots).

[DatAsh]

What do you think is harder and takes longer to develop, Kareem's, McHale's, Hakeem's, Malone's, Worthy's etc post up and mid range skills or get 3 point range?!?


For me, it's not about what's harder, it's about what's smarter. A player who spends 4 hours a day practicing 3 point shots will be better than a player who spent those same 4 hours practicing 2 point shots, just because the 3 is so much more efficient.

[SCdac]

For me, it's not about what's harder, it's about what's smarter. A player who spends 4 hours a day practicing 3 point shots will be better than a player who spent those same 4 hours practicing 2 point shots, just because the 3 is so much more efficient.

Is it safe to assume your talking about swingmen and guards moreso than big men? ... Idk If I want my big man being the next Andrea Bargnani or Channing Frye or Antwan Jamison (Dirk is really the exception, Horry too had a nice career but was on great teams)

[Round Mound]

:confusedshrug:

[CuterThanRubio]

Cry, cry, cry!

I've always been a fan of teams that favored the long ball, I'm glad that it has been accepted as the best strategy.

The NBA is NOT "watered-down"

Basketball in the past was a watered-down borefest.

The sport is more popular than it has ever been, and it is also being played at a higher level than ever before.

Deal or move on,

It's that simple.

How are you going to complain about too much SHOOTING in a sport that is built on doing just that?

Dumb.

[tpols]

I dont like watching PFs take 3's .. unless, if you have a stretch 4 go for it. But watching some of these guys w/ no range who have no business launching from out there do so over choosing to work for a 2 pt shot is discouraging.

[90sgoat]

The problem with the 3 ball focus is that it is not as consistent as the mid range or low post play if you know what you're doing. In a tight 4 quarter game, it is much easier to get some kind of mid range look or a post up. If you only deal with 3s then you have the situation op mentioned of choking.

Spurs did it again and again with Duncan getting the big bucket on a post up or Tony Parker hitting a midrange, then using the 3 ball to space the floor.

[SCdac]

The sport is more popular than it has ever been, and it is also being played at a higher level than ever before.

Is it really though? Based on ratings. Jordan era seemed like a high point. But to be clear theres more to popularity and viewer-count than threes or no threes (like the advent of the Internet, etc)

[tpols]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!

I have just watched the Atlanta Hawks on 4 possessions in A ROW during the fourth quarter where they were either up by 2, down by 2 or tied where they had A CLEAR LANE ON THE FAST BREAK TO THE BASKET!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!? But instead TRIED to kick it out for a corner 3?!?!?! Needless to say NONE of those possessions ended in scores and virtually GAVE THE GAME away to the Cavs!!!.

This is turning in a pathetic display to say the least. 3 pointers used to come off double teams to the post or kickouts after defenses collapse on the penetrators on the half court or fast break, not this taking the air out of the ball by the supposed "PG" for 15 seconds before deciding to pass the ball or jack up a contested 3 himself or sacrificing a an open layup or short mid range shot to pass it out again for a 3!!!!

We are watching the DUMBEST for of basketball the NBA has had in a long time and we're not even seeing the worst of it, get ready for teams combining for a 100 3-'s in a few years!!!

The millennial generation doesn't have the time or the intelligence to learn the games basic fundamentals and skills to dominate EVERY AREA from the post to the 3 point line.

3 pointer fest for the next 10 years!!!

I mentioned this in the game thread.

The Hawks would rather settle for a 3 than take a semi contested layup.. because theyre scared.

It's like theyre enamored with the "knockout blow" or "comeback punch" .. everything is a do or die .. instead of just, working it in and getting a comfortable shot.


:facepalm

[NBAGOAT]

I mentioned this in the game thread.

The Hawks would rather settle for a 3 than take a semi contested layup.. because theyre scared.

It's like theyre enamored with the "knockout blow" or "comeback punch" .. everything is a do or die .. instead of just, working it in and getting a comfortable shot.



:facepalm

i responded to you about that already. Based on their lineup, that's easily one of their most comfortable shots.

[tpols]

i responded to you about that already. Based on their lineup, that's easily one of their most comfortable shots.

didnt see .. but if you think Al Horford should be launching 3's, or Atlanta in general should be chucking them as much as they are .. well, I have nothing left to say to you.

just witness the rout.

[CuterThanRubio]

Is it really though? Based on ratings. Jordan era seemed like a high point. But to be clear theres more to popularity and viewer-count than threes or no threes (like the advent of the Internet, etc)

Television ratings are not an accurate representation of popularity anymore.

It is safe to say that Curry's performance this season was responsible for taking the sport to a new level, and long distance shooting is the reason for it.

It's not like inside play has been totally abandoned, the sloppy below the basket scrums are being phased out in favor of more efficient shots.

[NBAGOAT]

didnt see .. but if you think Al Horford should be launching 3's, or Atlanta in general should be chucking them as much as they are .. well, I have nothing left to say to you.

just witness the rout.

You're right about Atlanta most likely going get routed. However they could potentially also go like 15-30 which is one of their best chances of winning. Anyway Horford only took 1 3 this game too, bet he'll take even more next game.

[NuggetsFan]

I'd say it's just the opposite. Teams are finally starting to realize just how broken the 3pt shot really is. It's worth 50% more points, and it's no where near 50% harder to make.

The top players that have been practicing it since they were young are becoming far more efficient than past players because they spend their time practicing more efficient shots(3 point shots).

Exactly. NBA has just became all about efficiency. Teams play smarter today than they ever did because teams have a bunch of people employed to do nothing but obsess over advanced statistics. Can't handcheck anymore so basically impossible to guard the perimeter and on top of that teams have became more advanced defensively. You think guys in the 90's watched as much tape? They just played basketball. Now teams know right down to the exact % what direction every single offensive player tends to drive. It's basically just math.

It's made it less entertaining no doubt. What can you do tho? Ask teams to play less smart? Have guys taking less efficient midrange J's because it's more entertaining to watch as opposed to players chucking 3's/living at the line? Tell the D to ease up? ...It's the era of analytics. Back in the day you went off word off mouth, eye test, what was popular and fun to watch. Nowadays you have 15 people in a room showing you your wrong with numbers :confusedshrug:

[tpols]

You're right about Atlanta most likely going get routed. However they could potentially also go like 15-30 which is one of their best chances of winning. Anyway Horford only took 1 3 this game too, bet he'll take even more next game.

well, thats the problem the OP is highlighting.

You have a bunch of skilled players.. just a year ago, 4 all star level players, with a lot of skill especially offensively, whose only chance at winning is to get fluky from behind the 3 pt line instead of utilizing their talents and working hard for points.

thats a problem.

[Showtime80']

Jesus Christ people are really becoming accustomed to this low quality basketball!

The NBA right now is STRUGGLING to average 103 ppg, that's not even 1993 numbers and that was the start of the DEADBALL era!!!

The value of a dominant CLASSIC BIG MAN is in the ATTENTION he gets and the FOUL TROUBLE the opposing team incurs in guarding him. A 30% 3 point shooting 7 footer is not going to punish the opposing front line and get them in foul trouble as much as a dominant low post big man would.

And to Cuter than Rubio, the NBA right now is a 30 team league with only 2 to 3 teams worth watching and probably less than that have a probability of winning the title, PATHETIC!!!

Take a look at the 1988 playoffs and the teams and players involved and then talk to me about "Watered Down" :

Bulls- Jordan, Pippen, Oakley
Hawks- Wilkins, Rivers, Willis
Pistons- Isiah, Dumars, Rodman Laimbeer
Celtics- Bird, McHale, Parish, DJ, Ainge
Jazz- Malone, Stockton, Eaton, Baily
Cavs- Harper, Price, Daurgherty, Nance
Blazers- Drexler, Kersey, Porter, Duckworth
Sonics- Chambers, McDaniel, McMillan, Ellis
Nuggets- Lever, English, Adams
Mavs- Aguirre, Blackman, Harper, Tarpley
Rockets- Olajuwon, Sampson, Floyd, McGray
Knicks- Ewing, Jackson, Wilkins
Bucks- Moncrief, Sikma, Pressy, Cummings
Lakers- Magic, Worthy, Kareem, Green, Scott, Cooper

Dude look at that FRIGGIN LIST!!!! Count how many hall of famers and all-stars are in there!!! And compare that post season to not only this year's crap lineup of teams but the playoffs of the last 20 years and YOU STILL DON'T EVEN GET CLOSE TO THE TALENT IN THE NBA DURING THAT PERIOD!!! In that list you had EVERYTHING!!! Dominant low post play, mid range game, fast break attack, physical defense, timely 3 point shooting...

The NBA became watered down when it started to value ATHLETICISM OVER FUNDAMENTALS!!! And players getting rawer and rawer as the years have gone bye.

[NBAGOAT]

well, thats the problem the OP is highlighting.

You have a bunch of skilled players.. just a year ago, 4 all star level players, with a lot of skill especially offensively, whose only chance at winning is to get fluky from behind the 3 pt line instead of utilizing their talents and working hard for points.

thats a problem.

Well one problem is why work hard for 2 points when you can get 3 more efficiently and more easily especially when you're down big which the Hawks were. 2nd Teague and Korver aren't really all star level this year. Finally I should reworded they can win in other ways like if Milsap/Horford plays better or their defense does really well but tht's one of the simpler ways they could win. It's not like they're all playing like Channing Frye or Korver.

[Showtime80']

Give me a Break Nuggets Fan!!!

No amount of tape or analytics is going to stop well-oiled machines and players from past eras, not then not now not EVER!!!. The 90's Knicks had a 60 PAGE book on Michael Jordan not counting the hours of tape, go back and check how well they did against them and that was with more rules favoring defense!!!

Today's teams HAVE TO SHOOT MORE 3'S because the two positions that use to get open looks and dictate offensive flow, the dominant low post Center and the pass first PG are virtually EXTINCT!!!

What the hell are you going to run through the post with unskilled athletic stiffs who don't have two post moves to save their lives and can't make a G!d damn free throw like Dwight Howard (The best center of the last 10 years, LOL), DeAndre Jordan or Andre Drummond...

Don't even get me started on the present day chuck first PG's that absolutely KILL OFFENSIVE FLOW. Steve Francis, Baron Davis and Stephon Marbury would be so proud!!! LOL

[Lebron23]

I love it.

[Showtime80']

NBA Goat

Why the hell did they pass up a POINT BLANK layup during 4 or 5 different occasions when there was only a 2 point difference in their favor or against or even tied to pass the ball to a corner 3!?!?!?! Resulting in NOTHING each and every time!!!! That is DUMB BASKETBALL anyway you look at it and it's becoming A PLAGUE IN THE MODERN NBA!!!

The NBA's Golden Age of talent and basketball quality was 1980 to 1991, that was it, go look at the players and teams that existed in that era and compare that to the last 6 years.

NO CONTEST!!! Not to mention how SOFT the NBA game has become with NO RIVALRIES thanks to the AAU brotherhood!!

[NuggetsFan]

The value of a dominant CLASSIC BIG MAN is in the ATTENTION he gets and the FOUL TROUBLE the opposing team incurs in guarding him. A 30% 3 point shooting 7 footer is not going to punish the opposing front line and get them in foul trouble as much as a dominant low post big man would.


The thing is the attention a big men gets is double teamed down low. One of the easier things to do. Bring a guy over. Only if a big is a great passer OR a team is amazing at shooting 3's does it kill you. Look at what skilled post players do nowadays. Al Jefferson? .. Dwight was most dangerous with Orlando, surrounded by 3 point shooters. Harden had a higher TS% this season than a prime Shaq. Not to compare the two just to point how ridiculous the emphasis is on FT's/3's in today's game. How somebody like Harden has basically figured out how to break the system.

3 point shooting provides one of the most valuable things. Spacing. Forces defense's to come all the way out and guard the 3. Which makes them vulnerable to the drive. Which opens up everything. Toss in P&R's, no handchecking, easy foul calls which all make the perimeter game that much easier and it's pretty understandable why today's NBA is today's NBA. Even gives post players more room to work. Imagine Steph Curry drilling 3's and opening up things for Wilt?

Lots of big men currently that could average more points and look better statistically than what they are. Teams just don't want to toss it down low 15-20 times a game to the same player anymore which is why you've been seeing big men extend there range. Look at the Nuggets. Jokic was a beast in his rookie season.

I'm not saying players today are better or worse. Silly to compare to different games. Compare what guys did relative to there era. I actually think the 3 point shooting/FT's are uglier to watch. The obsession with efficiency has deff made the game "uglier". Just the game is smarter nowadays. Teams have hired guys they didn't hire 25 years ago. Advances statistics, crunching numbers and the effectiveness of schemes is looked into way more than ever. 80's basketball was more just basketball as opposed to today where every single possession is ran through a machine.

[NuggetsFan]

The 90's Knicks had a 60 PAGE book on Michael Jordan not counting the hours of tape, go back and check how well they did against them and that was with more rules favoring defense!!!


It's not even an argument dude. Teams hire way more guys, have better video equipment, electronics have made things far more easier for guys to do homework. Didn't have an ipad you could read on the plane 25 years ago. Teams didn't have a slew of people crunching numbers who were hired just for that reason. Take a look at a video room in 1987 and than one in 2016.

It's not a now vs than or anything like that. Every era is superior and inferior in certain ways. I thought basketball was more fun to watch in 2002 than it is right now. When it comes to what's available to teams, players, fans etc. were living in the greatest era for that. You see what guys do on TMZ 4 hours after a game. In the 90's players could get in a bar fight and hide it under a rug.

[NBAGOAT]

that doesn't usually happen and I'm pretty sure the Hawks won't make that same mistake again. teams did that in the 80's too except it was midrange shots instead of 3 pt shots. Some of the "stars" you named were just laughable. Idc how good Mark Eaton at shotblocking, he's nowhere near a star. I can do the same thing you did and I'll pick a year like 2011.

Heat- Lebron, Wade, Bosh,
Bulls- Rose, Deng, Boozer, Noah
Celtics- Allen, Pierce, Garnett, Rondo
Magic- Howard, Hedo, Jameer Nelson, JRich
Hawks- Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Al Horford, Jamal Crawford
Knicks- Carmelo, Amare, Chauncey
Sixers- Elton, Iggy, Jrue
Pacers- Danny Granger, Hibbert, Collison

Spurs- Parker, Ginobli, Duncan, Jefferson
Lakers- Bryant, Gasol, Odom, Bynum
Mavs- Dirk, Terry, Marion, Chandler, Kidd
Thunder- Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka
Nuggets- Lawson, Nene
Blazers- LMA, Roy, Wesley, Gerald, Batum, Andre Miller
Hornets-Paul, West
Memphis- Zbo, Rudy, Marc, Conley

[Solidape]

me too man, I wish they would get rid of zone defense and bring back man to man and illegal defense.

The NBA product is kinda lame with everyone chucking. I miss the days where Barkley would post up all day on iso and keep on scoring till he had to be double teamed. Now we have a stupid 5 seconds iso rule.

[Round Mound]

me too man, I wish they would get rid of zone defense and bring back man to man and illegal defense.

The NBA product is kinda lame with everyone chucking. I miss the days where Barkley would post up all day on iso and keep on scoring till he had to be double teamed. Now we have a stupid 5 seconds iso rule.

:applause: :cheers: :rockon: :pimp: :bowdown:

[FKAri]

NBA Goat

Why the hell did they pass up a POINT BLANK layup during 4 or 5 different occasions when there was only a 2 point difference in their favor or against or even tied to pass the ball to a corner 3!?!?!?! Resulting in NOTHING each and every time!!!! That is DUMB BASKETBALL anyway you look at it and it's becoming A PLAGUE IN THE MODERN NBA!!!

The NBA's Golden Age of talent and basketball quality was 1980 to 1991, that was it, go look at the players and teams that existed in that era and compare that to the last 6 years.

NO CONTEST!!! Not to mention how SOFT the NBA game has become with NO RIVALRIES thanks to the AAU brotherhood!!

Buncha short, skinny, clumsy ass dudes. Would be lucky to step foot onto a blacktop without losing the court let alone play professionally today. They're lucky to even have their worthless names associated with the sport.

[swagga]

fck this era sons, just a bunch of ****** chucking relentlessly to please the corporate/hipster/soccer mom/asian crowd. nba SOLD OUT big time.

[swagga]

It's not even an argument dude. Teams hire way more guys, have better video equipment, electronics have made things far more easier for guys to do homework. Didn't have an ipad you could read on the plane 25 years ago. Teams didn't have a slew of people crunching numbers who were hired just for that reason. Take a look at a video room in 1987 and than one in 2016.

It's not a now vs than or anything like that. Every era is superior and inferior in certain ways. I thought basketball was more fun to watch in 2002 than it is right now. When it comes to what's available to teams, players, fans etc. were living in the greatest era for that. You see what guys do on TMZ 4 hours after a game. In the 90's players could get in a bar fight and hide it under a rug.

son you are right about most of that and the game has evolved a lot. the problem isn't the 3 point chucking directly but the rules which make it efficient:
- 3 seconds / 5 seconds
- no handchecking
- allowing illegal screens (selectively)
You cut these 3 rules and you'll see real nigggas again bullying these light skin folk on the block like the good ole days.

[warriorfan]

https://media.giphy.com/media/GODSCQebffJzW/giphy.gif

[Straight_Ballin]

A watered down league being utilized to entertain a watered down generation.

Nothing more.
Nothing less.

[3ball]

I love it.
of course you do - the 3-pointers open up the floor and allow your boy to get to the rim so he doesn't have to rely on his broke jumper.

back in the day, he'd need to rely on that broke jumpshot to be a top scorer - which means his efficiency would drop bigtime.
.

[3ball]

son you are right about most of that and the game has evolved a lot. the problem isn't the 3 point chucking directly but the rules which make it efficient:
- 3 seconds / 5 seconds
- no handchecking
- allowing illegal screens (selectively)
You cut these 3 rules and you'll see real nigggas again bullying these light skin folk on the block like the good ole days.
today's game is all about taking and making the most 3-pointers

the skill sets needed to accomplish this objective are narrow (spot up shooters, screen-roll ball-dominators), which waters down the game.

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

[3ball]

.
Each stat is linked to NBA.COM:

Over 80% of today's 3-point attempts are "open" (4-6 feet from closest defender) or "very open" (6+ feet) - as described by NBA.com:



........................................0-2 ft (very tight).... 2-4 ft (tight)..... 4-6 ft (open).... 6+ ft (very open)

LEAGUE-AVERAGE
3-PT ATTEMPTS PER GAME ............0.4 (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=0-2%20Feet%20-%20Very%20Tight).................... 4.1 (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=2-4%20Feet%20-%20Tight)..................9.9 (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=4-6%20Feet%20-%20Open)..................9.4 (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=6%2B%20Feet%20-%20Wide%20Open&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) <-- nba.com

PERCENTAGE OF
TOTAL 3-PT ATTEMPTS .................1.7%................17.2%........ .....41.6%.............39.5%




Over 70% of Curry's 3-point attempts are either "open" (4-6 ft) or "very open" (6+ ft).. However, the league average is 80%, as shown above.



........................................0-2 ft (very tight).... 2-4 ft (tight)..... 4-6 ft (open).... 6+ ft (very open)

STEPH CURRY'S.
3-PT ATTEMPTS PER GAME ............0.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/tracking/shots/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season).................... 2.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/tracking/shots/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..................5.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/tracking/shots/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..................2.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/tracking/shots/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) <-- nba.com

PERCENTAGE OF
TOTAL 3-PT ATTEMPTS .................0.4%................ 26.1%.............45.9%.............24.3%

[3ball]

.
It makes sense that most of today's 3-pointers are wide open - today's drive-and-kick offenses require 3-4 players standing behind the line on every play (spacing), so the defense is stretched out and can't make timely rotations most of the time.

However, a shortened 3-point line would reduce a defender's closeout distance by 3-4 feet, thus eliminating the extra room the Warriors enjoy on most of their 3-pointers.



It's easier for 3-point shooters in today's game:


Driving and kicking for 3-pointers wasn't common or the staple of ANY team's offense until about 10 years ago.. Consequently, good 3-point shooters in the 80's and 90's didn't benefit from offenses that were based on their strength like today's 3-point shooters do.. Guys like Reggie Miller and Larry Bird had to run off screens for most of their 3-point looks - they didn't get to just stand there and wait for kickouts like today's player.



Today's higher number of halfcourt 3-pointers slows down pace


3-pointers have ALWAYS needed to be more open, much more than 2-pointers - certainly, most 2-pointers aren't taken with 4+ feet of room like today's 3-pointers.. Since 3-pointers must be more open, today's teams need to run more offense, resulting in slower pace and less PPG.

Otoh, previous eras barely shot 3-pointers - instead, they settled for one contested 2-pointer after another, without needing to run as much offense.


Better 3-point shooting has allowed drive-and-kick to surpass post-ups


Now that teams have sufficient 3-point shooting personnel to drive-and-kick for 3-pointers (as opposed to 2-pointers), the drive-and-kick format has become more efficient than the post-up format.. This proves that the decline in post-ups is due to higher efficiency drive-and-kick made possible by 3-pointers, not defensive tactics.. In the absence of 3-pointers, no amount of defensive strategy could prevent post-ups from supplanting drive-and-kick..

Since post-ups, mid-range, off-ball and isolations were the only things left in the 80's without the 3-pointers needed to make drive-and-kick worthwhile, we can say with certainty that many of today's elite players would be lesser players back then - their 3-and-D skill sets exclude elite ability in any of the aforementioned areas.



Curry's good shooting is an EXCEPTION among the league's top scorers, just like Jordan's would be:


Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler had sub-par efficiency on 3-pointers AND midrange (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11712984&postcount=40) for most of their careers, yet they're still the top wing scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim than ever before.

Today's spacing and hands-off defense would benefit MJ's athleticism the same way, except he had documented (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713011&postcount=43) goat midrange efficiency, which would put him in Curry's category as a goat shooter, and give him a similarly massive advantage over non-shooters Lebron, Westbrook and company.
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[swagga]

today's game is all about taking and making the most 3-pointers

the skill sets needed to accomplish this objective are narrow (spot up shooters, screen-roll ball-dominators), which waters down the game.

show them who the real goat is son!

[ralph_i_el]

I watch old games when they are on NBATV, and they shoot plenty of outside, spot-up, open shots. They are just more likely to be 18 footers than 3's. Today, players take advantage of that extra point, but the actual gameplay isn't that different. The game just rewards shooting a bit more than it does inside play.

This doesn't mean that inside play is going anywhere. We've seen that the best shooting teams set up that shooting with inside play, and the best teams inside the paint on offense are the ones that space the floor.

I like this era. You can't just force the ball inside without team play and floor spacing.

[ralph_i_el]

.


Curry's good shooting is an EXCEPTION among the league's top scorers, just like Jordan's would be:


Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler had sub-par efficiency on 3-pointers AND midrange (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11712984&postcount=40) for most of their careers, yet they're still the top wing scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim than ever before.

Today's spacing and hands-off defense would benefit MJ's athleticism the same way, except he had documented (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713011&postcount=43) goat midrange efficiency, which would put him in Curry's category as a goat shooter, and give him a similarly massive advantage over non-shooters Lebron, Westbrook and company.
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hurr durr, how about Durant, Harden, PG, Klay Thompson, Kawhi, Melo, Hayward?

You can't just pick and choose when you're making points. Also, Westbrook, Wade, and Derozen are excellent midrange shooters.

All of those guys you listed are good midrange shooters except for LeBron, and he had multiple seasons posting excellent shooting numbers from midrange AND three.

You aren't listing guys who just throw themselves at the rim. You're listing guys that have to be guarded out to 18ft. That's still essential to being a slasher, like in any era.

Watch John Wall in his first two seasons (or about once a week when he has a bad night). Guys wouldn't even bother coming within 3 feet of him until he got inside 15ft. He's a top-5 quickness player, basically ambidextrous (finishing and dribbling with both hands equally, also he hit an 18ft runner lefty), and has fantastic court sense.....but without a good J he is still inefficient as heck.

Shooting is essential for all scorers, and your posts have done nothing to disprove it.


MJ is the best basketball player of all time IMO.....but not in the GOAT shooter discussion. Would you really say he's a better shooter than Bird? or even Chris Mullin?

[Showtime80']

I'm sorry NBAGoat but some of those teams on the 2011 playoffs list, particularly in the East, are absolutely pathetic!!!

I forgot to mention the Washington Bullets from the 1988 playoffs with Moses Malone, Bernard King and Jeff Malone, two hall of famers and one all star!

The 1988 playoffs had 24 hall of famers in total not to mention Magic, Jordan, Bird, Olajuwon, Drexler, Stockton, Karl Malone, Ewing, Isiah and Dominique were in their prime years.

The 2011 playoffs can't touch 1988!

[Showtime80']

Another PATHETIC DISPLAY of 3 point obsession put on display by the Spurs in the second half of the game yesterday!!!

With LaMarcus Aldridgue absolutely DOMINATING and single covered for virtually the whole game the Spurs decide "We've had enough of that, lets start having Patty Mills and Green bomb away from the 3 point line" to the tune of 4-14, 4-14!!!!!!!!

You mean to tell me this analytics BS prefers to take the ball away from a guy who is literally KILLING THE THUNDER!!! And put it in the hands of two scrub three point chuckers!?!!

Give the ball to Aldrigue 14 times and he probably makes 10 or 11 of them giving his team 20 to 22 points versus the 12 points those two idiots gave them with the lovely airball at the end!!!

Do you think ANY TYPE of analytics would make Magic take the ball away from Kareem, Bird take the ball away from McHale, Kenny Smith take the ball away from Hakeem or Maurece Cheeks take the ball away from Moses while they are DOMINATING!!! And star jacking up 3 pointers because analytics say so?!?!

It is again, DUMBED DOWN basketball!

[3ball]

Shooting is essential for all scorers, and your posts have done nothing to disprove it.


Lebron shot 36% from midrange and 31% from 3-point range this season, but he was still a top scorer... Ditto for Wade, Derozan and Butler, who had similar poor efficiency.

This proves that you don't need to be a good shooter to be a top scorer in today's game... The stats don't lie.





Westbrook, Wade, and Derozen are excellent midrange shooters.


You're making things up and ignoring the facts.. Wade shot 36% from midrange this season, and Derozan shot 37% - neither player has EVER shot 40% from midrange in their entire careers.. That's BAD midrange shooting, not "excellent" shooting.

Westbrook is no different - 2016 was his FIRST season shooting over 40% from midrange - he shot 36% last season when he was scoring champ.

So you're flat out lying or in denial - Westbrook, Wade, and Derozan aren't good midrange shooters - they've been under 40% for their entire careers.





You're listing guys that have to be guarded out to 18ft.


You're making things up again - Lebron, Wade and Derozan shot 37% from midrange this season - defenses are happy to let them shoot their low percentage from midrange, rather than get to the rim.

Otoh, Jordan shot 49% from midrange, so defenses stuck to Jordan like white on rice.. Those are the facts





MJ is not in the GOAT shooter discussion. Would you really say he's a better shooter than Bird? or even Chris Mullin?



Why are you ignoring facts: Jordan was a better jumpshooter than Curry inside 20 feet - he shot 7 percentage points better on literally 6 times the volume:



.....................MJ 1997 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)...................Cur ry 2015 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)............ Curry 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/) <--- link to nba.com data

5-9 ft.......... 49.2%, 126 fga........... 40.3%, 72 fga.......... 48.6%, 72 fga

10-14 ft....... 51.5%, 466 fga........... 52.9%, 85 fga.......... 50.9%, 57 fga

15-19 ft....... 49.5%, 594 fga........... 43.9%, 132 fga........ 37.3%, 102 fga



Overall midrange % (all shots inside the 3-point line but outside the paint)

JORDAN 1997:. 49.3%, 1202 fga
CURRY.. 2015:. 41.1%, 285 fga
CURRY.. 2016:. 42.5%, 200 fga



Jordan's 1997 might be the best midrange shooting season of all time - so heck yeah, Jordan was an equal or better shooter than Bird/Mullin INSIDE 20 FEET.






Lebron had multiple seasons posting excellent shooting numbers from midrange AND three.


Lebron shot less than 40% from midrange in 10 of his 13 seasons.. He shot less than 35% on three-pointers in 8 of 13 seasons.

Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler had sub-par efficiency on 3-pointers AND midrange for most of their careers, yet they're still the top wing scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim than ever before.

Today's spacing and hands-off defense would benefit MJ too, except he had midrange (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713011&postcount=43) efficiency - this would put him in Curry's category as a goat shooter, and give him a similarly massive advantage over non-shooters Lebron, Westbrook and company.

[FashionIssues]

keep shorting them props for all other aspects. they did not win 73 on 3 pointers

[jstern]

Greg Popovich hates the 3ball.

The modern rules has made it easier for teams to shoot and hit threes, and so it has become the most efficient shot. And that has consequences.

It's making it more like a video game, where you don't need to create plays, where the smarter player with the higher basketball IQ wins, because why bother when you can just spam 3 pointers.

That's the issue that many people have with the three pointer.

Players like Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Hakeem Olajuwon have such highly develop offensive games. And such games are beautiful to watch when they can shred really good defenses.

So like Kobe Bryant said in terms of the rule changes a long time ago, (not about three pointers) it has allowed lesser players to produce more, while before only players with highly developed games could produce at that high level, and thus the older rules wouldn't affect the Kobe's and Lebron's of the game.

So imagine if in the future a player that shoots even better than Curry comes along, but other than that has the basketball ability of John Starks. And this player it putting up 37ppg on ridiculous efficiency. The media is going to put such a player in the level of a Jordan, but in terms of a basketball player, compared to Jordan they are shit.

And that's the reason a person like Popovich is not going to like the 3ball.

Here's Michael Jordan talking about how taking too many threes can hurt his overall performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2CyJdCq-zU

One more thing, look hot boring the All Star game was this year.

[warriorfan]

Greg Popovich hates the 3ball.

The modern rules has made it easier for teams to shoot and hit threes, and so it has become the most efficient shot. And that has consequences.

It's making it more like a video game, where you don't need to create plays, where the smarter player with the higher basketball IQ wins, because why bother when you can just spam 3 pointers.

That's the issue that many people have with the three pointer.

Players like Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Hakeem Olajuwon have such highly develop offensive games. And such games are beautiful to watch when they can shred really good defenses.

So like Kobe Bryant said in terms of the rule changes a long time ago, (not about three pointers) it has allowed lesser players to produce more, while before only players with highly developed games could produce at that high level, and thus the older rules wouldn't affect the Kobe's and Lebron's of the game.

So imagine if in the future a player that shoots even better than Curry comes along, but other than that has the basketball ability of John Starks. And this player it putting up 37ppg on ridiculous efficiency. The media is going to put such a player in the level of a Jordan, but in terms of a basketball player, compared to Jordan they are shit.

And that's the reason a person like Popovich is not going to like the 3ball.

Here's Michael Jordan talking about how taking too many threes can hurt his overall performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2CyJdCq-zU

One more thing, look hot boring the All Star game was this year.

being 6'6 and taking 10 foot shots off the dribble takes more skill than being 6'2 and taking 30 foot shots off the dribble?

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[jstern]

being 6'6 and taking 10 foot shots off the dribble takes more skill than being 6'2 and taking 30 foot shots off the dribble?

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
You're really dumb. Dumb people simplify a points that they can't understand into one basic little simplistic ignorant conclusion.

[Da_Realist]

I wish there was a way to track how many easy dunks and layups teams get in half court sets and inbound plays as compared to previous times. I guarantee the difference would be astronomical.

[NBAGOAT]

I'm sorry NBAGoat but some of those teams on the 2011 playoffs list, particularly in the East, are absolutely pathetic!!!

I forgot to mention the Washington Bullets from the 1988 playoffs with Moses Malone, Bernard King and Jeff Malone, two hall of famers and one all star!

The 1988 playoffs had 24 hall of famers in total not to mention Magic, Jordan, Bird, Olajuwon, Drexler, Stockton, Karl Malone, Ewing, Isiah and Dominique were in their prime years.

The 2011 playoffs can't touch 1988!

We were comparing players, not teams. I could say the same thing about the West in the 80's, only teams that impressed me are the Mavs with their big 3 and an early version of Stockton/Malone on the Jazz besides Showtime ofc and neither of those teams are what you would call all time great teams.. Speaking of 2011, there are 20 hofers too and even 3-5 borderline type guys who could become hofers like lLMA.

[pudman13]

I say this a lot. It's not the same game and even people who like it need to acknowledge that. The point of basketball was to try to get high percentage shots, and for the defense to try to prevent them. It is no longer that. The role of the center has been completely transformed (I might say "eliminated.") I'm not sure what to say except that I miss the old game and know I'm never going to get it back.

[Chadwin]

The Rockets making the WCF just shows how bad it is.

16-24 feet shot usage: lowest in the NBA that year
24+ feet shot usage: highest in the NBA that year

and then add in all the FTs

The fact you can go so far with the chucking 3s and get fouled strategy is just sad.

[Da_Realist]

I say this a lot. It's not the same game and even people who like it need to acknowledge that. The point of basketball was to try to get high percentage shots, and for the defense to try to prevent them. It is no longer that. The role of the center has been completely transformed (I might say "eliminated.") I'm not sure what to say except that I miss the old game and know I'm never going to get it back.

This is how I feel, too.

[warriorfan]

You're really dumb. Dumb people simplify a points that they can't understand into one basic little simplistic ignorant conclusion.

ok bro, keep going on longwinded rants about how dinosaurs in the post and 6'6'' swingman taking 10 foot midrange pull ups is more "highly developed" than guys taking 30 foot 3 pointers off the dribble

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[t-rex]

I love the 3 point shot. To me it takes away the previous generation where guards couldn't shoot and everyone was just trying to dunk to get on ESPN. I am so glad that era is over.

Basketball is about making shots. The jump shot is the purest form of basketball that there is. Difficulty increases the further you are from the basket. Players like Curry are ushering in an era of some of the highest skilled players in the history of the sport.

It makes me happy for the game that players now focus on becoming great shooters, instead of practicing ridiculous dunks to the detriment of the rest of there game.

[Showtime80']

Problem is there were a TON of centers and swingmen in the 80's and early 90's who were devastatingly efficient, had complete mastery of the fundamentals since entering the NBA and highly skillfull to boot. They were assets to their team's gameplan in getting high porcetange shots!!!

In contrast, how many guys in today's NBA can hit 30 foot shots consistently?!? ONE?!? Yeah that sounds like a league full of skikl and efficiency!!!

The soft rules and lack of fundamentals have made this game dumber than its ever been and just wait 5 years, if my local courts are any indication, were I rutinely see kids spend almost 40 minutes launching half court shots, we're in for the APOCALYPSE!!!

I just sleep well knowing that I got to see real skillfull and physical basketball in my lifetime were a 3 point chucking shrimp with brittle ankles like Steph
Curry would not have lasted a season!

[t-rex]

For a great shooter, simple math mandates that players shoot the 3.

For a great shooter, like Curry or Thompson if they are 7-15 (47%) from 3 point range they score 21 points. For a 2 point shooter, they have to go 11-15 (73%) from 2 point range (22 points) to keep pace.

How many all time great scorers go 73% from the floor, even for one game? Never mind a season.

The 3 point shot is here to stay. For a skilled player, it's the most economically efficient offense play in the game.

[Showtime80']

Forget about dunks!

Fundamental aspects like dominant post play, entry passes, outlet passing, fast break execution, effective mid range game have all gone TO HELL in the past 10 years!!!

Instead of that we get to watch players who have NO BUSINESS shooting high volume 3 pointers like Harden, Westrbrook, Lowry, DeRozen, Mills, Lillard, Green among others chuck it up for the sake of analytics!

I'm sorry but that is bad and dumb basketball my friends!

[Da_Realist]

Forget about dunks!

Fundamental aspects like dominant post play, entry passes, outlet passing, fast break execution, effective mid range game have all gone TO HELL in the past 10 years!!!

Instead of that we get to watch players who have NO BUSINESS shooting high volume 3 pointers like Harden, Westrbrook, Lowry, DeRozen, Mills, Lillard, Green among others chuck it up for the sake of analytics!

I'm sorry but that is bad and dumb basketball my friends!

PREACH! :applause:

[FrenchDude]

I watched the highlights from nba.com for game 2 of Hawks@Cavs.

They only showed 3 point shots.....

[jstern]

I watched the highlights from nba.com for game 2 of Hawks@Cavs.

They only showed 3 point shots.....
Link.

[FrenchDude]

Link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94U2ec7elOc