For anyone who thinks Curry, Bran, Kobe better than MJ

[Marchesk]

Just no.

http://s31.postimg.org/w3d85yji3/jordan_playoffs_avg.png

What's really impressive as that Jordan averaged 5.7 assists in the playoffs while still being the leading playoff scorer most of those seasons.

[I know you are]

But Bill Russell though.

[Dr Hawk]

Is there anyone who doesn't think Jordan is the GOAT?

[Marchesk]

But Bill Russell though.

He has an argument.

[Marchesk]

Is there anyone who doesn't think Jordan is the GOAT?

Probably a few Kareem, Wilt & Russell fans. You might even find an old schooler her or there who thinks Dr J was the best they ever saw.

[3ball]

.
Comparison of MJ & Kobe as 1st Options:


League-wide PPG, Pace and DRtg were all lower during Jordan's 2nd three-peat (1996-1998) than Kobe's championship years without Shaq (2008-2010), in both regular season and playoffs:



League-Wide DRtg in REGULAR SEASON:


1996: 107.6
1997: 106.7
1998: 105.0

2008: 107.5
2009: 108.3
2010: 107.6

Source: http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html



League-Wide DRtg in PLAYOFFS (each year is link to source):

1996 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1996.html#all_misc_stats): 107.4
1997 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1997.html#all_misc_stats): 106.8
1998 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1998.html#all_misc_stats): 105.6

2008 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2008.html#all_misc_stats): 107.4
2009 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2009.html#all_misc_stats): 107.7
2010 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2010.html#all_misc_stats): 108.6



Yet Jordan still had better stats:



JORDAN 1996-1998 REG SEASON:. 29.6 ppg.. 48.2% fg.. 2 MVP
BRYANT 2008-2010 REG SEASON:. 27.4 ppg.. 46.1% fg.. 1 MVP


JORDAN 1996-1998 PLAYOFFS:. 31.4 ppg.. 45.9% fg
BRYANT 2008-2010 PLAYOFFS:. 29.8 ppg.. 46.4% fg


JORDAN 1996-1998 FINALS:. 31.1 ppg.. 43.4% fg.. 3 championships.. 3 FMVP's
BRYANT 2008-2010 FINALS:. 29.2 ppg.. 41.3% fg.. 2 championships.. 2 FMVP's


Source: basketball-reference.com



Notice that MJ's efficiency was equal or greater, even though Kobe's efficiency was unfairly boosted by carrying a SMALLER LOAD:



............PERCENTAGE OF TEAM POINTS SCORED WHILE PLAYER WAS ON FLOOR


.........................RS.....RS 4th.... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th


JORDAN 1997... 36.0 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 40.1..... 37.7..... 46.3...... 40.9...... 50.4
JORDAN 1998... 36.3..... 42.1..... 39.7..... 48.8...... 43.6...... 49.1

KOBE 2008....... 31.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 36.8..... 33.9..... 41.5...... 30.4...... 32.1
KOBE 2009....... 32.6..... 40.5..... 34.3..... 35.8...... 36.2...... 34.4
KOBE 2010....... 32.2..... 37.8..... 33.9..... 38.4...... 36.8...... 37.6




CLIFFS: At 33-35 years old, MJ had better stats against better defenses than 29-31 year-old Kobe, while also carrying a larger load.. Now imagine if we looked at Jordan's prime - yikes - it's amazing how much better Jordan was than Kobe.

[3ball]

.
Imagine if your favorite player scored 5-7 more ppg in the playoffs on better efficiency across the board - that's what MJ did in comparison to Lebron:


Career Playoffs - PER GAME:

JORDAN: 33.4 ppg.. 1.7 oreb.. 4.7 dreb.. 5.7 apg.. 3.1 tov.. 2.1 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg
LEBRON: 28.2 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.2 dreb.. 6.7 apg.. 3.5 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg


Career Playoffs - PER 100 POSSESSIONS:

JORDAN:. 43.3 pts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg
LEBRON:. 36.5 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg


Career Finals - PER GAME:

JORDAN: 33.6 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 2.8 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.65 bpg.. 48.1 fg
LEBRON: 26.4 ppg.. 9.6 rpg.. 6.9 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.54 bpg.. 44.6 fg


There's never been a number 1 option that scored 5-7 more ppg on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.

Jordan's massive scoring edge on superior efficiency is far more valuable than Lebron's 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers) and 2.5 def rebound edge (MJ had more offensive rebounds).

Lebron's assist edge is particularly meaningless considering he achieves his assists by lowering his TEAMMATES' assists and playmaking, as the stats show (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11709473&postcount=1).

Furthermore, Jordan scored 10 more ppg than his 2nd option for every playoff series of his career AND led the team in passing (MJ led the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49))... Lebron was never required to do that - he has several series where he wasn't even the team's leading scorer.

[Jameerthefear]

Didn't read/look at it. Curry > MJ

[Klay 3D]

73-9 :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[G0ATbe]

Why do old era fans even bother listing off stats as if that means anything anymore:facepalm ? We're in a new, stronger era of intelligent, calculated basketball.

Shit era players like Jordan have inflated stats, its common sense.

[FKAri]

Probably a few Kareem, Wilt & Russell fans. You might even find an old schooler her or there who thinks Dr J was the best they ever saw.
I don't think anyone thinks Dr J > MJ. Primarily because there aren't too many years separating them. There's probably more people on the Oscar is GOAT wagon.

[SouBeachTalents]

The only players with any legit argument over Jordan are Russell, Kareem & Wilt. Jordan is the indisputable GOAT perimeter player, and it's not even close

[Marchesk]

Only playoffs Jordan was held under 30 was when Moncrief guarded him. Still averaged 8.5 assists though. :eek:

[3ball]

Only playoffs Jordan was held under 30 was when Moncrief guarded him. Still averaged 8.5 assists though. :eek:
Rookie Jordan's 29 ppg and 8.5 apg in his first playoff series vs. the reigning, 2-time DPOY could be the goat 1st playoff series performance

btw, no all-time great led their team in scoring for every playoff series of their careers, except Jordan... And Jordan led his team by at least 10 ppg for every playoff series - let that sink in.

(edit: there were 2 series where Jordan led his team by 5 ppg and 7 ppg... still the goat, BY FAR).

[Nilocon165]

Why do old era fans even bother listing off stats as if that means anything anymore:facepalm ? We're in a new, stronger era of intelligent, calculated basketball.

Shit era players like Jordan have inflated stats, its common sense.
Jordan was better than Kobe and if you can't see that you're a delusional dickhead

[Spurs m8]

LOL good post OP.

Imagine being one of those f*cktards hahahah

[G0ATbe]

Jordan was better than Kobe and if you can't see that you're a delusional dickhead

I'm not gonna get into argument that I know I've already won but I'd love to hear in what way Jordans better than Kobe:rolleyes: .

And I'm not taking stats or accomplishments into consideration, the guy played in a weak era on the most stacked team ever. The fact he only won 1 more ring than Kobe is something to be ashamed of if anything.

[Nilocon165]

I'm not gonna get into argument that I know I've already won but I'd love to hear in what way Jordans better than Kobe:rolleyes: .

And I'm not taking stats or accomplishments into consideration, the guy played in a weak era on the most stacked team ever. The fact he only won 1 more ring than Kobe is something to be ashamed of if anything.
Are you mentally disabled? Honest question.

[riseagainst]

Are you mentally disabled? Honest question.


:roll:

[stalkerforlife]

Didn't read/look at it. Curry > MJ

And that's the response this thread deserves because literally no one actually thinks any of those guys are better than Jordan.

[Dray n Klay]

And that's the response this thread deserves because literally no one actually thinks any of those guys are better than Jordan.

Definitely not Kobe, LeBron is better however.

[Straight_Ballin]

How fvcked would lebron era fans be if MJ never left and won in 94 and 95?

How bad would 2/7 look in comparison to 8/8 with 8 FMVP?

[Dray n Klay]

How fvcked would lebron era fans be if MJ never left and won in 94 and 95?

How bad would 2/7 look in comparison to 8/8 with 8 FMVP?

1-9 looks a lot worse than either tbh..