Bill Russell: 13 titles in 15 seasons (1955 - 1969) [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

LAZERUSS

03-05-2016, 10:51 PM

He did. But he played with betas in Baylor and Wilt. So 1 ring was the result. If he would've had better superstar teammates who had killer instincts, he would've won more. I do intend on doing in-depth research on Baylor eventually and why he didn't win. It's not all coincidence. Heck, when he retired, the Lakers went on that historic 33 game winning streak. There is a right way and wrong way to play the game. Great individual stats isn't the be all, end all.

'60: Chamberlain joins a LAST PLACE team. He immediately leads them to a 49-26 record, and after an overwhelming first round playoff series, culiminated with a 53-22 clinching game...he led that Warrior team to a game six, two point loss against a heavily-favored 59-16 Celtic team...in a series in which Chamberlain shelled Russell with an battering seldom seen between two GOATs. In that series, Chamberlain averaged 31 ppg and 27 rpg, and shot .500 from the floor, in a post-season NBA that shot .403 overall. Included was a must win game of 50-35, on 22-42 shooting.

'62. Wilt takes that nearly SAME roster, now only older, and worse, to a 49-31 record. In the first round he again puts up historic numbers, with a must win clinching performance of 56-35. He then takes that crumbling roster to a game seven, one point loss, against a HOF laden 60-22 Celtics team that was favored in EVERY game of that series. Overall, an incredible 34-27 series against a swarming Celtics team that did everything they could to stop him.

'64. Chamberlain now takes a roster that had gone 31-49 the year before, with the only addition being rookie Nate Thurmond, who plays part-time, and out of position...to a 48-32 record. In the WCF's, Chamberlain puts up a staggering 39-23 series, on .559 shooting, in a brilliant seven game campaign. In the clincher, he hangs a 39-26 10 block game. Unfortunately, he faces a Russell who has SEVEN OTHER HOFers on his roster in the Finals. And while Boston wins that series, 4-1, the last two games are decided in the waning seconds. In the clinching game five loss, Chamberlain outscores Russell, 30-14, and outrebounds him, 27-26. Oh, and how about Wilt's HOF "help" in that series? Thurmond shoots .326 from the field, and Guy Rodgers shoots a normal, for him, .258. For the series, Chamberlain outscored Russell, per game, 29.2 ppg to 11.2 ppg; outrebounded Russell, per game, 27.8 rpg to 25.2 rpg; and outshot Russell from the floor, .517 to .386 (in a post-season NBA that shot .420 overall.)

'65: Wilt is traded at mid-season, for three players, and a boatload of cash....to a Sixers team that had gone 34-46 the year before. Traded...not just joined. Big difference. In their half season to acclimated, Wilt leads the Sixers to an overall 40-40 mark. He then destroys Oscar's stacked 48-32 Royals in the first round, including a monster 38-26 clincher. Then, against all odds, he takes that same bottom-feeding roster, to a game seven, one point loss against the six-time defending, and 62-18 Celtics, who are at their peak in the dynasty run. In the clinching game seven loss, Chamberlain scores Philly's last eight straight points, to pull the Sixers to within one point. The "clutch" Russell then hits a guidewire on the in-bolunds pass, giving the ball back to Philly, and an opportunity to pull off the greatest upset in NBA playoff history. Unfortunately for Wilt... "Havlicek steals the ball!" In that seventh game, Chamberlain outscored Russell, 30-15; outrebounded Russell, 32-29; and outshot him from the floor, 12-15 to 7-16. For the series, all Wilt did was outscore Russell, per game, 30.1 ppg to 15.6 ppg; outrebound Russell, per game, 31.4 rpg to 25.2 rpg; outshoot Russell from the floor, .555 to .447 (in a post-season NBA that shot .429 overall); and even outshot Russell from the line, .583 to .472. Oh, and for good measure, he outblocked Russell, 35-22 in their known block totals. Arguably the most one-sided beatdown ever adminsistered by one GOAT on another. The only other one will be coming up shortly.

'66. Russell's Celtics romp over Wilt's Sixers, 4-1. BUT, Chamberlain again murders Russell. He outscores him, per game, 28.0 ppg to 14.0 ppg; outrebounds him per game, 30.2 rpg to 26.2 rpg; and outshoots Russell from the floor, .509 to .424. Oh, and with his teammates doing absolutely nothing in the series (they would collectively shoot a horrific .352 in that series), Wilt summons a massive clinching performance of 46 points, on 19-34 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Remember this game.

'67. While Chamberlain's demolition of Russell in their '65 EDF's was staggering, his overwhelming domination of Russell in the '67 EDF's might have been even more impressive. For the first time in his career Chamberlain has a roster the equal of Russell's, and to no one's amazement, the results were predictable. A MASSIVE rout of the eight-time defending, and 60-21 Celtics. In fact, the Sixers were a mere four points away from a sweep in game four.

And remember what I mentioned at the end of their '66 EDF's? You know, the clinching game in which Wilt blasted Russell with a 46-34 game. Well, now the shoe was on the other foot. It was now Russell who was facing elimination going into game five. Did Russell rise up and dominate Chamberlain in that must win game? Hell no, he led his team like a lamb being led to slaughter. He meekly put up a FOUR point game, on 2-5 shooting. He did grab 21 rebounds, most all of them meaningless, and basically was obliterated by an unstoppable Chamberlain. Wilt hung 29 points, on 10-16 shooting, but 22 of the came in the first half when the game was still close (showing that he easily could have hung yet another 40-50 point game on Russell had it been necessary.) He also shelled Russell with 36 rebounds, and handed out 13 assists. He and his Sixers erased a late 17 point first quarter deficit, and by mid-way thru the 4th period, they had an eye-popping 27 point lead...or an unfathomable 44 point turnaround in a little over a half...en route to a 140-116 blowout of the "Dynasty."

For the series, Chamberlain outscored Russell, per game, 21.6 ppg to 11.4 ppg; outrebounded him by a staggering 32.0 rpg to 23.4 rpg margin; outassisted him by a 10.0 apg to 6.0 apg margin...yes, a TRIPLE DOUBLE SERIES...and outshot Russell (who had shot .454 during the regular season), by a .556 to .358 margin. And when I said that they had equal rosters...think about this... the Sixers outscored Boston in that series, per game, by a 121.2 ppg to 111.2 margin...or about what Chamberlain outscored Russell by.

'68. Chamberlain takes an injury-riddled Sixers team to a first round series win over an up-and-coming Knicks team, 4-2. In the series, Chamberlain leads both teams in scoring, rebounding, assists, and FG% (25.5 ppg, 24.1 rpg, 7.0 apg, and on a .584 FG%.) BTW, Walt Bellamy had shot .541 against the NBA during the regular season, but against Wilt in the playoffs? .421.

Wilt, himself, is nursing an assortment of injuries, and would be noticeably limping in the EDF's. And even without HOFer Billy Cunningham, who broke his wrist in the Knick series, he leads the Sixers to a 3-1 series lead. And in what could have been the clinching game five, he pounded Russell with a 28-30 game, on 11-21 shooting (while holding Russell to an 8-28 game on 4-10 shooting)...but he would lose two more starters to injuries, Luke Jackson, and Wali Jones. Both would play the rest of the series, but both were essentially worthless. Chamberlain plays poorly in game six, a blowout loss, but it is now clear that he is just a shell. Still, he outplays Russell in game seven, outscoring him 14-12, and outrebounding him, 34-26...but with his teammates shooting a collective 34-96 from the floor, they lose game seven by four points. As Russell would claim after the series..."A lessor man would not have played." Of course, inferring that virtually NO ONE ELSE would have been playing under the same circumstances. For the series, Chamberlain averaged a 22-25-7, and easily outplayed Russell.

'69. The worst post-season series of Wilt's career. Of course, most all of it because of an incompetent coach, who hated Wilt so much, that he left him on the bench in the last five minutes of a game seven...in a two point loss. Of course, Russell was no better than Wilt in that series, either, and in fact, was getting his ass handed to him in game seven, when Wilt went down with a knee injury. In that game seven, Chamberlain outscored Russell, 18-6; outrebounded Russell, 27-21; and outshot Russell from the floor, 7-8 to 2-7...all in five minutes less. Oh, and subtract Wilt and Russell's shooting from that game seven, and Russell's teammates collectively outshot Wilt's by a massive .477 to .360 margin...in a two point win.

So there you have it. Russell the "alpha", and Wilt the "beta."

CONTEXT my friend...CONTEXT.

Of course John Wooden said it best...had Russell and Wilt swapped rosters, and coaches, and it would have been WILT holding all those rings.

Thanks for playing though...

LAZERUSS

03-05-2016, 11:03 PM

LAZERUSS

03-05-2016, 11:08 PM

Not the best player in the league or at his position, but a winner. He won wherever he went as a player.

In their ten years in the league together, Chamberlain held a 7-2 margin over Russell in First Team All-NBA selections. Furthermore, Chamberlain was robbed of MVPs in both '62 and '64, and certainly was a much more dominant player in '69 than the three centers who finished ahead of him in the MVP balloting (Unseld, Reed, and Russell...all of whom he waxed in his H2H's with them.)

Kblaze8855

03-05-2016, 11:11 PM

2 straight NCAA titles in 1955 and 1956 (including Gold Medal in 1956) and 11 NBA titles in 13 seasons. He played 16 total seasons in NCAA and NBA and won 13 titles (81%). Possibly the greatest winner in the history of team sport, EVER.

He won back to back state titles in high school too. And his back to back rings in college were part of a run of 55 wins in a row. And the olympic team he led to the gold...won by an average margin of victory of 53ppg. The most ever(the first dream team is second...with 44ppg).

He only lost an elimination game of any kind from age 16 to retirement....2 times. And his ankle was nearly broken for one of them(he still played 20 minutes).

Healthy? He lost one win or go home game after the 10th grade.

Gotterdammerung

03-06-2016, 01:10 AM

Elgin Baylor was a great player but the funny thing about hus career, he had a short prime with Jerry West on the Lakers. After his knee injury in 65 he was no longer the same unstoppable scoring machine he was. Just a good volume scorer and rebounder in a largely white-dominant league. :oldlol:

As Baylor's body slowly lost its athleticism he became a liability on defense. By the 72 season he couldn't really run with the team, just station to station. By letting him realize his mortality the Lakers played better with more athletic guys to run their fast break.
H
Hence the 33 game win streak.

Kawhi

03-06-2016, 02:58 AM

Recognize.

MJ and Russell didn't win all those rings by accident. They had "it" and wanted it more than you. You can't fake the killer instinct. You either have it or you don't.
Russell had won 10 titles (was about to win his 11th and his last), but was still throwing up before an important game.

Wilt on the other hand, was too busy with his assist count, walking over to the scorerstable multiple times per game to check if they had counted an, of what he thought, assist. He also barked at teammates when they would miss when he made a pass, as he passed up open shots for assists.

Kawhi

03-06-2016, 03:21 AM

..

1960:
In the 1960 playoff series between Russell and Chamberlain, the normally non-offensive Russell had games of 19, 26, 17, and 25 points. Russell never averaged 19 ppg in a regular season of his career. Wilt's lack of defensive impact as he goes for individual accomplishments is evident.

Kawhi

03-06-2016, 03:22 AM

..

1970:
In 1970, enter Willis Reed. The 1970 NBA Finals vs the Knicks was basically a lesson for Wilt at Willis Reed University. Through his first 4 healthy games, Willis averaged 32 ppg on Wilt's defense before his Game 5 injury. In Games 1-4 when Willis was healthy, Wilt averaged only 19 ppg. As usual, Wilt's regular season scoring doesn't show up when the stakes were highest, but his often lacking defense carries over.

With Willis Reed injured and missing Game 6, Wilt finally takes advantage and has 45 points and 27 rebounds to tie the series 3-3. Of course, the 45 points only show up when the Knicks' best player and interior defender is injured and not playing

What happens in Game 7? Willis comes back in Game 7 of the 1969 Finals. Willis comes back in Game 7, fights through his injury, and hits the first 2 buckets to inspire the Knicks on to a blowout win in Game 7 to the title as Wilt loses in yet another Game 7 of his career, and Willis Reed gets the Finals MVP.

With Willis Reed's 27 minutes in Game 5, he only scored 4 points but his defensive presence shut down Wilt to 4 points on 2/7 (29%) FG and 4 turnovers when Willis Reed guarded him in Game 7. Wilt finished 21 points, but most of his points came without Reed on him, or when the game was already over - just like we saw in 1962 EDF Games 1-3-5. Willis on one leg shut down Wilt, right after Wilt had a 45-27 outburst with no Willis Reed in Game 6.

The Knicks won by 14. Guess what Wilt's stats were at the free throw line in Game 7, with the NBA Finals at stake? 21 points with 1-11 (9%) FT shooting. If Wilt made his free throws, the Lakers would have actually been in the game. But just like he did countless times against the Celtics, he cost his team with his habitual choking at the line.

What is the excuse now?

Kawhi

03-06-2016, 03:23 AM

Well, that was fun. There you have it, Wilt ''the alpha'' Chamberlain.

Kblaze8855

03-06-2016, 03:41 AM

Wilt's regular season scoring doesn't show up when the stakes were highest, but his often lacking defense carries over.

Just scrolling by that caught my eye and removed all reason for me to give it a serious read. Credibility killer. Whatever anyone can say about Wilt....often lacking defense isnt it.

Kawhi

03-06-2016, 03:48 AM

Just scrolling by that caught my eye and removed all reason for me to give it a serious read. Credibility killer. Whatever anyone can say about Wilt....often lacking defense isnt it.
Wilt Chamberlain played in exactly 1,045 NBA games, with a minute average of 45.8(!!) minutes per game. Yet, he never fouled out. Never. How?

Wilt was continually obsessed with a bizarre streak—for whatever reason, he wanted to make it through his entire basketball career without fouling out, so he’d stop challenging shots with four or five fouls even if he was hurting his team in the process.

Here’s what John Havlicek wrote in Hondo: “Wilt’s greatest idiosyncrasy was not fouling out. He had never fouled out of a high school, college or professional game and that was the one record he was determined to protect. When he got that fourth foul, his game would change. I don’t know how many potential victories he may have cheated his team out of by not really playing after he got into foul trouble.''

Not to mention that Wilt had multiple seasons of anchoring the worst defense in the league, in an era where jumpshots weren't as effective nor as much used as they are today.

Harison

03-06-2016, 04:01 AM

GOAT winner, even players like Wilt were making fun of Russell's insane drive to win. Thats why one has 11 rings and another one two, because "woman and cars are more important" than winning.

LAZERUSS

03-06-2016, 04:51 AM

Well, that was fun. There you have it, Wilt ''the alpha'' Chamberlain.

'60 EDF's:

Chamberlain dominates Russell in the first two games, but badly injures his hand in a melee at the end of the game. In fact, the belief is that it might be broken. He plays game three with a massively swollen wrist, and for the ONLY time in his 143 career match-ups with Russell, is he decisively outplayed. Russell outscores Wilt, 26-12, and outrebounds Chamberlain 39-15. Oh, and Russell played 40 minutes compared to Wilt's 35. Want to take a guess at what the final score would be? 120-90. The Warriors have ZERO chance without a dominating Wilt. Chamberlain is still not close to 100% in game four, and Russell plays him to a draw in yet another Celtic win. Chamberlain finally is 100% in game five, and just CRUSHES Russell with the an unfathomable 50-35 game. The Celtics swarm Chamberlain in game six, and the heavily favored Celts finally put away a far inferior Warrior team, in a two point win. Again, Wilt just annihilated Russell overall, outscoring him by a huge margin; outrebounding him, and badly outshooting him. Even the most ardent Russell supporters can only give Russ two games out of those six. Personally, 4-1-1 Wilt.

'61: Chamberlain averages a 37-23 in that three game sweeping loss. How about his [last place roster that he inherited in his rookie season] teammates? They collectively shoot .332. Wilt's two "HOF" teammates, Arizin and Gola shoot ... get this... .328 and .206 respectively. And yes, two of those losses were by slim margins. With ANY help from his putrid teammates, they likely would have repeated what they did to that same team in the '60 and '62 playoffs (when Chamberlain also averaged 39 and 37 ppg in those two series.)

'62: Game 1. Russell "neutralized" Wilt in the first half. With a 15 point lead. Chamberlain BURIED Russell in that second half. You want the final numbers? Wilt oustcored Russell, 33-16; outrebounded Russell, 31-30; and outshot Russell from the floor...by a 13-25 to 7-22 margin! How about Wilt's teammates? they collectively shot 20-85 (Russell's shot 40-98 BTW.)

BTW, I find it LAUGHABLE that Russell gets a credit for a "win" when he would hold Chamberlain down for a half, or even a quarter. Wilt never had that luxury with Russell. You want more evidence? In game two, Wilt thrashed Russell by outscoring him, 42-9, and outrebounding him, 37-20...all in guess what...a seven point win.

Incidently, for those that give Russell a "win" for "holding" Chamberlain down for a half...how about this game?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196202090BOS.html

You will see that Boston had a 19 point lead going into the 4th quarter (and newpaper accounts had it at 20 early in the period)...and yet...a huge comeback, in a game in which Chamberlain just destroyed Russell.

For the series, Chamberlain outplayed Russell, 4-2-1. BTW, while Russell held Wilt down in that game seven, newspaper reports claimed that Wilt's DEFENSE was the difference. Incidently, Chamberlain scored Philly's last five points, including a three-point play to tie the score. And had there not been a questionable goal-tend called against Wilt with a little over a minute to play, who knows how that game (and series) would have turned out.

And one more time...Boston was FAVORED in EVERY game of that seven game series. Tom Meschery said it best. Player-for-player Boston was better. But Wilt nearly won the series.

Oh, and I gotta love it when this CLOWN mentions that Sam Jones outscored Wilt in SOME of their games (Wilt outscored Jones in their '60, '62, '64, '65, '66, and '67 playoff series H2H's.) Why was it WILT's responsibility to outscore Jones.

Oh, and another point. Even Russell acknowledged that Sam Jones saved Boston in the post-season SIX times. Again, you can't blame Wilt for Jones going off.

'64. This is truly laughable. Chamberlain OVERWHELMED Russell in that Finals. Unfortunately for Wilt, Russell held a 7-2 edge in HOF teammates. And to compound that...Chamberlain's two HOF teammates shot .326 and .258 respectively. The bottom line...Wilt took a roster that had gone 31-49 the year before, up against a HOF-laden Celtic team...and they won one game, and almost won the last two.

'65. All anyone needs to know...Wilt SINGLE-HANDEDLY carried a 40-40 team to a game seven, one point loss, against a 62-18 Celtic team at the peak of their dynasty. And it was perhaps the most one-sided beatdown between two GOATS in the history of the sport. Only the '67 EDF's would challenge it....when Wilt would again MASSACRE a helpless Russell.

'66. I love it. This clown blames Wilt in game four for the loss, because he only scored 15 points. Guess what...he loves to cite newspaper recaps, most of which were hilarious...but how about that game?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328149&postcount=42

The recaps say that Wilt outplayed Russell in the final 3 games. He definitely picked it up after the first two games. As you said, "Impact goes beyond stats." Then the very next sentence you cite his stats. The Game 4 recap states that he nearly beat Boston "by himself". It is obvious the Celtics were sagging back defensively, keeping him from the ball. Even watching highlights of the series, they would full court press the point guard with KC Jones to make them use up clock in bringing the ball up. They would also shade Wilt before the ball even got in, daring the outside shooters to beat them. Anything to keep the ball out of Wilt's hands as often as possible.

And that was Chamberlain's WORST game of that series.

'67: Chamberlain just CARPET-BOMBED Russell, and in EVERY facet of the game. And had he needed to put 40+ point games, he surely could have. He did what was needed, and it was a massive blowout of the eight-time defending, and 60-21 Celtics.

'68. Again LAUGHABLE. I don't need to repost Wilt's domination of Russell here. All we need to know about that series came from PHILA's research.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328011&postcount=14

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328006&postcount=13

Wilt's Sixers were so decimated by injuries, including multiple injuries to Chamberlain himself, that they weren't even favored in their first round series against the Knicks. And it got worse in the EDF's against Boston. That that Sixer team was able to lose a game seven by a measley four points was a miracle. A healthy Sixer squad would have easily repeated their 4-1 annihiltion of Boston a year earlier. And can you imagine the blowout that series would have been, had it been Russell and his Celtics battling those injuries, and going against a healthy Sixer team?

'69. LA's COACH lost that series.I could, and have, put up paragraphs on that series, but here is all anyone needs to read...

https://books.google.com/books?id=9BaqPfGcI84C&pg=PA355&lpg=PA355&dq=butch+van+breda+kolff+had+chamberlain+playing+t he+high+post&source=bl&ots=rQxpX4Ys7l&sig=oosFtJ3aB-NUrdTlS-5xi8-eHyI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi70fWD0svKAhVDuYMKHSvWDRgQ6AEIQTAJ#v=on epage&q=butch%20van%20breda%20kolff%20had%20chamberlain% 20playing%20the%20high%20post&f=false

Van Breda Kolff:

"So we were able to throw the ball down low to Wilt and he'd score, but it was an awful offense to watch."

Perhaps the most idiotic comment to ever come out of a coach's mouth.

That takes care of the Russell-Wilt battles.

Again, John Wooden said it best...had Wilt and Russell swapped rosters, and coaches, and it would have been Wilt holding all those rings.

Thanks for playing though...

Kblaze8855

03-06-2016, 04:58 AM

Wilt Chamberlain played in exactly 1,045 NBA games, with a minute average of 45.8(!!) minutes per game. Yet, he never fouled out. Never. How?

Wilt was continually obsessed with a bizarre streak—for whatever reason, he wanted to make it through his entire basketball career without fouling out, so he’d stop challenging shots with four or five fouls even if he was hurting his team in the process.

Here’s what John Havlicek wrote in Hondo: “Wilt’s greatest idiosyncrasy was not fouling out. He had never fouled out of a high school, college or professional game and that was the one record he was determined to protect. When he got that fourth foul, his game would change. I don’t know how many potential victories he may have cheated his team out of by not really playing after he got into foul trouble.''

Not to mention that Wilt had multiple seasons of anchoring the worst defense in the league, in an era where jumpshots weren't as effective nor as much used as they are today.

People go entire careers and foul out once or twice. Many not at all they just arent reported. Fouling out is rarer than people seem to think. Even for good defenders. Jimmy butler just fouled out for the first time in his career today. He may go another 5-6 years before it happens again. Guys go years without fouling out all the time. People just hang onto the fact that wilt didnt because they dont look into anyone else. Last time the issue of Bron rarely fouling out came up I saw that Deng fouled out like 3 times in his career and one was off intentional fouls. Iggy has fouled out twice in the last 10 years after 6 times early in his career. Moses Malone had something like a 12 year run of not fouling out...and he was foul prone at times. Steve Nash fouled out once after the 90s and he played 53 minutes to do it. Nique played like 17 years and fouled out once. Meaning he played more games without fouling out than Wilt did.

As I said...whatever anyone thinks of Wilt....his "often lacking defense" is just not credible. Bill Russell himself was on record saying Wilt played his style of game better than he did himself when he was a Laker. Now....I dont know if id say the same. But Bill Russell was not a modest man in regards to his defense and rebounding. Hes not gonna give that claim out about a poor defender. There is too much evidence of virtually everyone Wilt played underperforming to make such a claim.

There are hall of famers he literally held scoreless to prove a point.

He wasnt asked to move around the way Russell was to defend entire teams...he defended the basket. He was damn near playing zone at times. But he was consistent doing it. Of the known game logs from his final season his average...at 36...would beat everyone we have numbers for except Mark Eaton. That either Wilt or Russell is the real all time blocks leader is virtually unquestioned.

This is someone who sent away literally dozens of shots at times, is among the greatest defensive rebounders ever, and spent the back third of his career totally sacrificing his offensive game to shut down the lane and throw outlet passes to win. You just cant claim he was some lacking defensive player in general and have me take you serious.

I dont care if you love Wilt or hate him. Ive been on both sides of the argument for many years here....I have his books...I have Kareems where he pretty much called Wilt out in this room. Ive seen all there is to see on him and read all there likely is to read. All the quotes....from Pete newell when he was in college, to Walt Frazier talking about learning to time his floaters by Wilts pre jump "squat" which Russel didnt have, and Kareem talking about getting his shots blocked by Wilt before he also got his leaps timed and started to piss him off rolling them over his fingers at 12 feet up...

Seen it all...good and bad. None of it justifies much talk about him being a poor or lacking defender. Feels like old articles calling him slow(which is what was said in an amusing but awful book by Elliot Kalb). Its too inaccurate for me to keep caring what someone saying that thinks. Feel free to not care if I take you serious. Just thought id chime in. It caught my eye is all.

You strike me as someone who has a little file or bookmark with quotes and numbers ive already seen saved for such an occasion. I wont tell you to save your time...because a copy paste isnt really much time...I will tell you im not likely to respond to it. If you want to call that fear....go right ahead. I just dont feel like a whole....thing...right now. I'll read it if it feels like something you took the time to write out on the spot. If it feels like a copy/paste job ill just skim through. But ive been arguing about Wilt from one end or the other since my second topic ever here which was made during a prudential halftime report(yes...nba on nbc) so I dont have much enthusiasm for them now. Not long drawn out ones like it looks like you and Laz are gearing up for.

feyki

03-06-2016, 09:28 AM

GOAT winner, even players like Wilt were making fun of Russell's insane drive to win. Thats why one has 11 rings and another one two, because "woman and cars are more important" than winning.

Definitely .

Russell did want to win , Chamberlain did want to get fun with cars,women and beach .

What goes around , comes around .

LAZERUSS

03-06-2016, 10:00 AM

Definitely .

Russell did want to win , Chamberlain did want to get fun with cars,women and beach .

What goes around , comes around .

Interesting that Chamberlain carried far worse rosters to within an eyelash of beating Russell's HOF-laden teams on several occasions. Or that when Chamberlain FINALLY had a supporting cast the equal of Russell's, and that was healthy, he and his team just annihilated Russell and his.

Again...John Wooden...

had Wilt and Russell swapped rosters, and coaches, and it would have been Wilt holding all those rings.

MiseryCityTexas

03-06-2016, 01:01 PM

That's all people in here talk about when it comes to 50s 60s basketball. People wanna act like players like Lenny Wilkins, Dolph Schayes, Cliff Hagan, Richie Guerin, Bob Pettit, Walt Hazzard, Zelmo Beaty, Nate Thurmond, Wayne Embry, Willis Reed, Hal Greer, and Paul Arizin didn't exist. All people bring up is Bill, Robertson, Baylor, West, and Wilt.

MiseryCityTexas

03-06-2016, 01:21 PM

People only mentioning a few players of that era, and not mentioning they're competition only reinforces idiots to say; "that was a weak era", when it's clearly not the case.

LAZERUSS

03-06-2016, 02:18 PM

Definitely .

Russell did want to win , Chamberlain did want to get fun with cars,women and beach .

What goes around , comes around .

Wilt certainly enjoyed his life far more...despite being a "loser."

For many years following his retirement, Russell was a bitter (and broke) man. He despised the city of Boston, and didn't even go to his first retirement ceremony.

He also wouldn't sign autographs out of principle, yet did so for profit.

And there were those that claimed that he was a racist, as well.

On the flip side, Chamberlain was a wealthy man his entire (relatively short-lived) life. And he contributed heavily to various charities, and left his alma mater, KU, with something like $650,000.

And speaking of his time at KU....he termed the loss to North Carolina in the NCAA Finals in his soph season as the worst of his entire career.

BTW, when he finally returned to Kansas for a jersey retirement ceremony, he was afraid that his return would not be welcomed...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbxrzeUIzpI

Oh, and he was supposed to be there briefly afterwards, and leave quickly, but instead, he stayed around and signed autographs, until everyone that wanted one, received one...for something like two hours.

Oh, and BTW, he was dying at the time...

And here is another side of Wilt that many here may not know about, either...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/445705-i-wanna-be-like-wilt-not-like-mike

One of Wilt's teammates was a fellow by the name of Paul Arizin.

Arizin was a great player in his time (career 1951-62) and is a Hall of Famer, in addition to being a top 50 player (as selected in 1996). He played 12 seasons, averaged 17 ppg as a rookie and more than 20 ppg in each of his other 11 seasons.

In 1993, Arizin's granddaughter Stephanie, unbeknownst to her family, wrote a letter to Wilt asking for an autograph. Stephanie was then 11 years old.

She had written to Wilt in care of the Lakers, and the letter was forwarded to the office of Wilt's attorney and best friend, Sy Goldberg. But because Goldberg's office had moved and Wilt was often inattentive to his mail, the letter was not even opened for THREE years.

When Wilt finally got around to reading it, he immediately called the then-14-year-old Stephanie in suburban Philadelphia, and Wilt and the young girl quickly established an unusual rapport.

Wilt later called Stephanie's father (the son of his former teammate Paul) at work to tell him how much he had enjoyed talking to Stephanie and apologized that it had taken him so long to respond. "She must have thought I was such a jerk, not answering a little girl's request," Wilt said... "I had to call her up and let her know what happened."

It was then that Michael Arizin (Stephanie's father and Paul's son) informed Wilt that, only a week before, Stephanie had been diagnosed with a brain tumor and had been given 12 to 18 months to live. She had never mentioned the illness in her conversations with Wilt.

Wilt promised to stay in touch with Stephanie on a regular basis. True to his word, Wilt spoke to Stephanie Arizin almost every Friday, often for an hour, during the last 15 months of her life. On July 30, 1997, Stephanie passed away at age 16.

Right after her death, Wilt, who was to live little more than two more years himself, sent this telegram:

To the Arizin family:
My sincerest condolences. I am here for you, all of you, if ever I am needed.
I may have tears in my eyes... I lost a friend who was full of strength and loved life passionately... From Stehpanie I realize that you're never too old to learn and never too young to teach. Her body may now be gone, but in my memory she can always be reached. I will forever rejoice in my memory of what she brought to my life in our very short time of friendship.
Love and peace,
"Dippy"
Wilt Chamberlain

A great story. No one really knew about this until Paul Arizin spoke at Wilt's funeral and told everyone assembled there what had happened with Stephanie.

feyki

03-06-2016, 02:43 PM

Wilt certainly enjoyed his life far more...despite being a "loser."

For many years following his retirement, Russell was a bitter (and broke) man. He despised the city of Boston, and didn't even go to his first retirement ceremony.

He also wouldn't sign autographs out of principle, yet did so for profit.

And there were those that claimed that he was a racist, as well.

On the flip side, Chamberlain was a wealthy man his entire (relatively short-lived) life. And he contributed heavily to various charities, and left his alma mater, KU, with something like $650,000.

And speaking of his time at KU....he termed the loss to North Carolina in the NCAA Finals in his soph season as the worst of his entire career.

BTW, when he finally returned to Kansas for a jersey retirement ceremony, he was afraid that his return would not be welcomed...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbxrzeUIzpI

Oh, and he was supposed to be there briefly afterwards, and leave quickly, but instead, he stayed around and signed autographs, until everyone that wanted one, received one...for something like two hours.

Oh, and BTW, he was dying at the time...

And here is another side of Wilt that many here may not know about, either...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/445705-i-wanna-be-like-wilt-not-like-mike

I didn't criticize Wilt's personal life . I respect Wilt's life style . I enjoyed with his interview's , specially with Russell . He was a great guy .

But my post wasn't about that . My post was about Wilt's perceptions about BasketBall . And of course i choose Bill's than Chamberlain's .

LAZERUSS

03-06-2016, 05:16 PM

I didn't criticize Wilt's personal life . I respect Wilt's life style . I enjoyed with his interview's , specially with Russell . He was a great guy .

But my post wasn't about that . My post was about Wilt's perceptions about BasketBall . And of course i choose Bill's than Chamberlain's .

For someone who has been portrayed (maybe not by you) as a loser, Chamberlain sure wasn't very good at it.

One, and perhaps even two losing seasons. And in one of them, he played 47.6 mpg, and led the NBA in 15 statistical categories, including scoring (by a mile), rebounding, and FG%. In fact, he led the league, and again, by a mile, in Win Shares, at 20.9...on a team that went 31-49. He also faced Russell and his eight other HOFers that year, nine times (going 1-8.) However, seven of those nine games were close (that includes a double digit OT loss.) Furthermore, he averaged 38 ppg against Russell in those nine H2H's, and downright crushed him in several.

How bad was that roster? They had 16 different players, several of whom only played briefly in the NBA. Their second best player was "all-star" Tom Meschery, who played in 64 games.

Interesting, too, that the very next year the Warriors brought in Alex Hannum as their new head coach. He quickly found this out...

http://www.si.com/vault/1964/03/02/608684/meet-the-new-wilt-chamberlain

San Francisco had a coach, but what Hannum got was no bargain. The team had the morale of a bunch of recruits immediately after their first G.I. haircuts. Says Hannum, "I realized how completely inadequate the team had become. They had learned to depend on Wilt so completely they were even incapable of beating a squad of rookies. I had to convince them that they, too, had responsibilities."

Furthermore...

[QUOTE]So are the Warriors, a team that lists on its roster some of the slowest players and worst shooters ever to play in the NBA. With just 14 games remaining in the regular season, San Francisco

LAZERUSS

03-06-2016, 05:24 PM

Continuing...

So, we covered Chamberlain's two losing seasons. And in one of them, he took a bottom-feeding roster to within an eyelash of beating the greatest dynasty in the history of the NBA.

How about the rest of his career?

Let's start with his rookie season. To understand that, you have to realize that Chamberlain was drafted while in HIGH SCHOOL (a territorial pick.) And just his luck...the team that drafted him was a LAST PLACE team.

He immediately improved them from a 32-40 team, to a 49-26 team. And he single-handedly carried that roster past the Nats in the first round (which included a 53-22 series clinching performance), and then to a game six, two point loss, at the hands of Russell's HOF-laden and 59-16 Celtics. And had Chamberlain not badly injured his hand at the end of game two, (and was worthless in game three, and not at 100% in game four), who knows how that series would have played out.

In his second season, he took his team to a 46-33 record, but they were swept by the Nats in the first round. Must have been Wilt's fault, right? Well, if putting up a 37-23 series can be blamed on him...yes. His teammates collectively shot... .332. Oh, and his two "HOF" teammates, Paul Arizin, and Tom Gola...shot .328 and .206 respectively.

In his historic 61-62 season, Chamberlain single-handedly carried that same last place roster that he had inherited his rookie season, but now older and even worse, to a 49-31 record. In the first round, Chamberlain again hung a 37-23 series on the Nats, including the clinching win performance of 56 points and 35 rebounds. And he then took them all the way to a game seven, two point loss, against Russell's stacked 60-20 Celtics. In a series in which Chamberlain averaged a 34-27.

Continued...

LAZERUSS

03-06-2016, 05:34 PM

Continuing...

We have already covered Chamberlain's '62-63, '63-64, and '64-65 seasons. Needless to say, he was playing with rosters that the cast of Gilligan's Island could have outplayed.

However, from his '65-66 season onto the his last year in the NBA ('72-73), he played with talented rosters, and the results were predictable. Not only winning teams, but four teams with the best record in the league, and four with 60+ wins, including two title teams that went 68-13 and 69-13. True, he "only' won those two titles, but his teams were still outgunned in almost every post-season series. For instance, the Celtics had more HOFers on their roster in '66, '67, '68, and '69. And the Knicks would have more HOFers on their roster in '68, '70, '72, and '73. Furthermore, in Chamberlain's '71 season, he faced Kareem's 66-16 Bucks in the WCF's, and without BOTH West and Baylor.

And even in '68, when he and his supporting cast were superior to Boston, ...well, the team that romped to the best record in the league that year, was nowhere near the crippled lot that battled the Celtics to a game seven, four point loss, in the EDF's.

Again, in Chamberlain's 14 year career...13 post-seasons, 10 Conference Finals, Six Finals, and two title teams. Five of his other teams lost in game sevens to the eventual champion, and four of those were by margins of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points. Four teams with the best record in the league, and four teams that won 60+ games.

THAT was Wilt "the loser."

MiseryCityTexas

03-06-2016, 07:05 PM

MiseryCityTexas

03-06-2016, 07:08 PM

LAZERUSS

03-06-2016, 07:11 PM

Guy Rodgers avg 13 and 10 in the 63-64 season, yet you still consider him a terrible NBa player:oldlol:

The fact that he was just recently voted into the HOF is a testament to just how great he really was.

And he had two major problems. One...he simply couldn't shoot. And two, he still kept trying.

The man would have seasons of nearly 20 FGAs per game...and on .373 shooting. Before Rubio arrived on the scene, Rodgers was arguably the most inefficient shooter, per the league average, in NBA history.

And in 63-64 he had a normal, for him, regular season... .365. Then came the playoffs, where he shot .329 on his 15 FGAs per game, and a horrific Finals of .258.

Had he just passed the ball he would have been a considerably better asset. Unfortunately, he always felt that he was going to make the next one...which he seldom did.

MiseryCityTexas

03-06-2016, 07:15 PM

Rondo can't shoot worth shit either.

LAZERUSS

03-06-2016, 07:15 PM

Willie Nauls and Paul Arizin (even though he was past his prime) weren't bad players either, and Tom Gola was a 7 time All Star.:oldlol: Wilt played with solid teammates, it's just that the Celtics had better players.

Naulls was a shell when joined up with Chamberlain...but, he still played better with Wilt, than he would with Russell.

Arizin was a great player, and still was even late in his career. However, his last two post-seasons were awful (.375 and .328 from the floor.) And Gola has as much business being in the HOF as I do. He might very well be the worst post-season player of any HOFer. And he wasn't just putrid with Chamberlain, either. He was rancid in most everyone of them. And again, in his last two post-seasons with Chamberlain... he shot .271 and .206 (and missed some games, as well.) But before the bashers rise up and blame Wilt...Gola had his best seasons alongside Chamberlain.

LAZERUSS

03-06-2016, 07:16 PM

Rondo can't shoot worth shit either.

Agreed. And I doubt that he will make the HOF.

MiseryCityTexas

03-06-2016, 07:24 PM

During the 1959-60 season, Gola became the first Warrior to have three straight games with a triple-double (the only other being Draymond Green, 2016). - Wikipedia

Wish there was video footage of this guy.

LAZERUSS

03-06-2016, 07:27 PM

- Wikipedia

Wish there was video footage of this guy.

With a career post-season FG% of .336, you can already guess what the footage would look like.

MiseryCityTexas

03-06-2016, 07:32 PM

With a career post-season FG% of .336, you can already guess what the footage would look like.

Lol I did see his play-off shooting percentages in the play-offs on b ball reference just a min ago. You're right, that shit is terrible:biggums: I seen the 60-61 and 61-62 seasons where he shot in the low 20s:biggums:

LAZERUSS

03-06-2016, 07:35 PM

Lol I did see his play-off shooting percentages in the play-offs on b ball reference just a min ago. You're right, that shit is terrible:biggums: I seen the 60-61 and 61-62 seasons where he shot in the low 20s:biggums:

The problem with the basketball HOF is that just that. It is a basketball HOF, and not an NBA HOF. Gola was a legendary college player, and evidently a reasonably good NBA player, but he wouldn't be in anyone's NBA HOF.

FillJackson

03-07-2016, 02:25 PM

He won back to back state titles in high school too. And his back to back rings in college were part of a run of 55 wins in a row. And the olympic team he led to the gold...won by an average margin of victory of 53ppg. The most ever(the first dream team is second...with 44ppg).

He only lost an elimination game of any kind from age 16 to retirement....2 times. And his ankle was nearly broken for one of them(he still played 20 minutes).

Healthy? He lost one win or go home game after the 10th grade.

Red Auerbach drafted him without seeing him play.

After seeing him he understood that Russell was the best player on the Celtics at a time
when the sportswriters were still talking up Bob Cousy and took it on a project to educate the sportswriters how to understand Russell's impact. How it didn't have to the be scorer that had the best game. Auerbach told Russell after his first year, I don't know how you do what you do, but you're the best player in the league.

talkingconch

03-07-2016, 08:26 PM

Gotterdammerung

03-07-2016, 09:20 PM

Jordan, like Wilt and a handful other greats were perhaps the better player than Russell, but basketball is a team effort and that's where Russell's genius lie. Given such dominance in high school, college, and the pros, Russel's will to win exceeds that of anyone else, ever.

He had by far the greatest career of any hall of fame great in sports history. :cheers:

LAZERUSS

03-07-2016, 09:26 PM

Weren't there only like 8 teams in the league? And you can't compare it to modern basketball (1980's and later) because the game was completely different. So saying hes a better winner than Jordan is a little iffy

The leagues ranged from between 8-12 teams in the years he played. And he won a ring in a season in which his team went 48-34, and won three straight series without HCA.

LAZERUSS

03-07-2016, 09:55 PM

Wilt = 37.6 ppg in 1959/60 season
Wilt = 30.5 ppg vs Russell in 1960 EDF
(- 7.1 ppg)

Wilt = 50.4 ppg in 1961/62 season
Wilt = 33.6 ppg vs Russell in 1962 EDF
(- 16.8 ppg)

Wilt = 36.9 ppg in 1963/64 season
Wilt = 29.2 ppg vs Russell in 1964 Finals
(- 7.7 ppg)

Wilt = 34.7 ppg in 1964/65 season
Wilt = 30.1 ppg vs Russell in 1965 EDF
(- 4.6 ppg)

Wilt = 33.5 ppg in 1965/66 season
Wilt = 28.0 ppg vs Russell in 1966 EDF
(- 5.5 ppg)

Wilt = 24.1 ppg in 1966/67 season
Wilt = 21.6 ppg vs Russell in 1967 EDF
(- 2.5 ppg the only time he beat Russell)

Wilt = 24.3 ppg in 1967/68 season
Wilt = 22.1 ppg vs Russell in 1968 EDF
(- 2.2 ppg)

Wilt = 20.5 ppg in 1968/69 season
Wilt = 11.7 ppg vs Russell in 1969 Finals
(- 8.8 ppg)

Now, how about comparing their regular season H2H's, with their post-season H2H's...

59-60:

Now...the Russell-Wilt H2H's.

First of all, here were Russell's regular season numbers against the entire NBA that season:

18.2 ppg, 24.0 rpg, and a career high .467 eFG%

NYCelts84 posted an a google archive article (which I can no longer find), which had Russell and Wilt's cumulative stats for their first ten H2H games in that regular season. And nbastats.net gives us their 11th. So, we basically have their regular season totals:

Russell: 19.8 ppg, 23.7 rpg, and get this... an eFG% of .393
Wilt: 39.1 ppg, 29.7 rpg, .465 FG%, 1.3 apg.

Chamberlain basically EXCEEDED ALL of his regular season stats against Russell in that regular season, including FG%. And, he held Russell, in his greatest FG% season, to way below his normal regular season FG%, and in fact, below the league average (.410.)

Interesting too,...take away their very first H2H game, and in which Russell slightly outplayed Wilt (Wilt outscored Russell, 30-22, but they were even on the glass at 30-30, and Russell outshot Wilt from the floor 7-19 to 12-38)...and here were Chamberlain's numbers in their last ten straight regular season H2H games:

40.2 ppg, 29.7 rpg, and on a .481 FG%.

Incidently and for those that somehow believed that Russell would "let" Chamberlain get his points in certain circumstances...

Here was a game on 1/29/60 in which Wilt scored 43 points, on 18-36 shooting, with 39 rebounds:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...001290PHW.html

A big fourth quarter comeback. It would not be the last time Wilt would engineer a 4th quarter comeback with a huge game, either.

Over the course of those 11 H2H games, Chamberlain outscored Russell 10-1, including six games of 43+, and a high game of 53. BTW, Wilt also plastered Russell with a staggering 44 point, 43 rebound game. Chamberlain held an 8-2-1 rebounding advantage, and had four games of 35+ (Russell's high game against Wilt was 33.)

The two would meet in the EDF's (and after Chamberlain put up a 38.7 ppg, 23.0 rpg, series against Syracuse in the first round, which included a clinching 53-22 game on 24-42 shooting.)

The series went six games, and Boston won the clinching game six by a 119-117 margin.

Here were their numbers in those six games of EDF's:

Russell: 20.7 ppg, 27.0 rpg, and on a .446 eFG%, and 2.8 apg.
Wilt: 30.5 ppg, 27.5 rpg, and on a .500 FG% (in a post-season that shot an eFG% of .402), and 2.0 apg

However, Wilt badly injured his hand in a melee in game two, and was worthless in game three (and below normal in game four.) His hand was so swollen he could not hold the ball. Of course he was never a great FT shooter, but he went 0-6 from the line in that game (and shot .538 the rest of the series from the FT line.) Game three would probably be the only time in their 49 post-season H2H's in which Russell clearly dominated Wilt. Russell outscored Wilt, 26-12, and outrebounded Wilt, 39-15. The result...a 120-90 blowout win for Boston (BTW, Russell played 40 minutes to Wilt's 35.)

In a must-win game five, Wilt was back to normal, and he erupted for 50 points, on 22-42 shooting, with 35 rebounds (Russell had 22 point, on 9-16 shooting, with 27 rebounds.)

Russell did play Wilt to a draw in the clinching game six win, (again, 119-117.) Wilt outscored Russell, 26-25, while Russell outrebounded Wilt, 25-24. Chamberlain shot 8-18 from the field, to Russell's 11-26 (Russell had quite a few games in their career H2H's in which he took more FGAs that Wilt BTW.)

Still, the heavily-favored 59-16 Celtics barely survived that game six against Wilt's 49-26 Warriors. And had Wilt not badly injured his hand in game two, who knows how that series might have gone?

60-61:

Wilt and Russell went at it an amazing 13 times in the regular season. Here were their overall numbers in those 13 H2H's:

Russell: 18.8 ppg, 25.4 rpg, .398 eFG%, and 3.6 apg
Wilt: 35.5 ppg, 30.6 rpg, .492 eFG%, and 1.8 apg.

Wilt outscored Russell in those 13 games, 12-1 (and Russell's margin in his lone "win" was 28-27.) Included were scoring margins of 30-13, 34-17, 44-20, 46-19, 39-6, and 46-13.

Chamberlain outrebounded Russell 9-4 in those 13 H2H's. Russell did have a 40-25 margin in one of them, however. Meanwhile, Wilt had margins of 30-19, 35-14, and get this... 55-19!

Russell did an outstanding defensive job on Wilt in their first six H2H games that season, but here were Chamberlain's numbers in their last seven straight H2H games:

38.4 ppg, 26.4 rpg, and on a .580 eFG% !!!!

Included were four games of 44, 46, 46, and 47 points.

And how about this one game against Russell on 1/14/61:

He outscored Russell, 44-20; outrebounded Russell, 35-14; outshot Russell, 17-27 to 10-20; and he even found time to block 15 shots! BTW, Chamberlain's Warriors won that game, 116-113.

That may very well have been the most dominant seven straight games in their long rivalry.

And for the second straight season, Chamberlain shot well over the league average against Russell, .492 in a league that shot an eFG% of .415, while holding Russell below it, at .398. And there would be entire seasons in which Wilt outshot him by considerably larger margins, as well.

61-62:

Russell vs Wilt 10 regular season H2H's:

Russell: 18.5 ppg, 24.6 rpg, .383 eFG%, and 4.4 apg.
Wilt: 39.7 ppg, 28.8 rpg, .468 eFG%, and 2.1 apg.

Wilt outscored Russell in all 10 H2H's.
Wilt outrebounded Russell in 7 of the 10 H2H's.
Wilt outshot Russell from the field in 8 of the 10 H2H's.

Wilt with 5 games of 40+ points
Wilt with 2 games of 50+
High game of 62 points (on 27-45 FG/FGA, with 28 rebounds.)

Chamberlain had scoring margins of 41-28, 31-17, 26-11, 48-21, 38-11, 41-11, 52-21, and 62-23.

Wilt had rebounding margins of 30-19, and 31-18.

And for those that believe that Russell was "letting" Wilt score...how about these two B2B games:

2/9/62:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...202090BOS.html

2/10/62:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...202100PHW.html

Chamberlain rallies Philly back from a 20 point 4th quarter deficit in one game, with a 48-29 game, and then a come-from-behind 4th quarter game in which he outscored Russell, 38-11 and outrebounded him, 31-18.

And speaking of B2B games:

Wilt vs Bellamy on 11/13/61: 73 points, 29-48 FG/FGA, 36 rebounds
Wilt vs Russell on 11/14/61: 62 points, 27-45 FG/FGA, 28 rebounds

Another interesting game: 3/7/62:
Boston routs Philly, 153-102. Wilt, as always, played every minute, while Russell played 40 minutes. (It was 113-78 going into the 4th quarter.)

Russell vs Wilt in the EDF's (Boston wins game seven, 109-107.)

Russell: 22.0 ppg, 25.9 rpg, .399 eFG%, and 4.6 apg.
Wilt: 33.6 ppg, 26.9 rpg, .468 eFG%, and 2.9 apg.

Wilt outscored Russell in all 7 games. They went 3-3-1 in rebounds.

Russell with two consecutive games of 31-31 and 30-31 (and Wilt outscored him in both.)

Wilt with 6 games of 30+ points.
Wilt had two games of 40+ (41 and 42 points.)

In game two, Chamberlain outscored Russell, 42-9; outrebounded Russell, 37-20; and outshot Russell, 16-31 to 4-14.

And for the third straight season, Chamberlain shot way over the league eFG% against Russell (.468 to the league eFG% of .426), while holding Russell WAY below it (.383.) And in their second straight playoff series...more of the same. Wilt shot .468 in their 7 game playoff series, in a post-season NBA that shot .411, while holding Russell to a .399 eFG%.

Continued...

LAZERUSS

03-07-2016, 09:59 PM

Continuing...

62-63:

The "Wilt-bashers" love to point this season out. How could a Wilt-led team only go 31-49? Especially in a season in which Chamberlain averaged 44.8 ppg? Obviously he was "stats-padding", especially when you consider he played 47.6 mpg, right?

They would be wrong. Wilt, as almost always, led the league in mpg, but he did so for a team that lost 35 games by single digits, was only involved in eight 20+ point decisions (going 4-4 in them), and had a -2.1 ppg differential.

Chamberlain's Warriors were sold to San Francisco, and when they moved, HOF Paul Arizin decided to retire, and "HOFer" Tom Gola pretty much decided to stay behind (and was traded.) The Warriors roster was just plain awful. They went thru 16 different players, several of whom would only play briefly in the NBA. And once again, Wilt's COACH basically asked WILT to carry that team.

And try Wilt did. He led the league in scoring, and by a huge margin, at 44.8 ppg. He led the league in rebounding, at 24.3 rpg. And he set a then record mark of a .528 eFG% (which he would go on to break three more times in his career.) In fact, he led the NBA in FIFTEEN of their 22 statistical categories, including WIN SHARES, and by a mile, of 20.9 (imagine that...21 wins out of a team that only won 31...or 70% of their wins were attributed directly to Wilt), ...and PER, with an all-time record of 31.82. And had blocked shots, TRB%, Off Reb, and Def Reb stats been kept, and he likely would have led in those, as well.

Lovellette was traded to Boston...which gave the Celtics a roster with NINE HOF players. BTW, Lovellette, who had averaged 20.9 ppg on a .471 eFG% just the season before, was now Boston's NINTH best player. He played part-time, so I will no longer include his numbers in this topic.

Bellamy didn't fare any better than Wilt. Despite a season in which he averaged 27.9 ppg, 16.4 rpg, and shot .527 from the field, his team could only go 25-55 (which was still an improvement over his rookie season of 18-62.)

Of course Russell's HOF-laden Celtics breezed to a 58-22 record, and another title (although Oscar's Royals took them to a game seven in the EDF's.). Russell averaged 16.8 ppg, 23.6 rpg, and shot .432 from the field. And, they would go 8-1 against Wilt's Warriors in their nine H2H games. HOWEVER, out of those nine games, Boston won three by margins of 127-109, 135-118, and 125-111. And in those three games, they had leads of 17, 10, and 8 points going into the 4th quarters. San Francisco beat them easily in their lone win, 128-112. In the other five games, which, of course, Boston won them all, the Celtics won by margins of 135-120, but that was deceptive, because it went into OT; 108-102 (and the Warriors led by 12 going into the 4th quarter); 118-112 (tied at 89 going into the 4th); 118-112 (Boston hung on after leading by 10 going into the 4th); and 116-113 (Boston led 85-78 going into the 4th.)

So, as you can plainly see, Russell's Celtics, with an OVERWHELMING edge in talent, struggled in nearly all of those games. And, as you will see, Wilt just annihilated Russell in the majority of them.

Ok, here were some other interesting stats: I mentioned that I would post Russell's numbers against LA (both in his regular seasons, and his post-seasons), and then compare Wilt's numbers against LA in those seasons, as well. Why? Because had Wilt had the good fortune to have played in the Western Conference in his first six seasons, instead of only two, he likely would have faced the Lakers several times in the playoffs. Instead, he never had the luxury of going against them in the post-season. BTW, as we already saw in the 61-62 season, had Wilt's Warriors scored three more points in game seven of the '62 EDF's, they would have advanced to the Finals to face those Lakers. As it was, Russell put up a 22 ppg, 27 rpg, .543 FG% seven game series against LA in the Finals. Wilt faced those Lakers nine times during that regular season, and averaged 51.6 ppg, 26.8 rpg, and shot .503 from the field. Included were three games of 60+, with a high game of 78 (to go along with 43 rebounds.) It would be more of the same in '63.

Russell vs. Wilt...9 H2H's:

Russell: 15.3 ppg, 27.8 rpg, .366 eFG% (3 known games.)
Wilt: 38.1 ppg, 28.9 rpg, .497 eFG% (6 known games)

...(and missing FG%'s in games in which he scored 40 and 45 points.)

Wilt had five games of 40+, with a high game of 50 (Russell's high game against Wilt was 25 points BTW.) And Chamberlain enjoyed scoring margins over Russell of 32-18, 31-6, 50-23, 45-16, 45-12, and 43-8.

Clearly, Wilt was a "one-man wrecking crew" in his entire season, as well as against both Bellamy and Russell.

Total dominance...again.

63-64:

Russell-Wilt in their 8 regular season H2H's:

Russell: 14.4 ppg, 25.4 rpg, 5.4 apg (5 known games), .367 FG% (6 known)

Wilt: 29.1 ppg, 26.9 rpg, 3.7 apg (7 games), .530 FG%

Chamberlain held an 8-0 margin in scoring battles. Included were margins of 30-15, 32-16, 31-12, 35-16, and 28-8.

Wilt also won the rebounding matchups, 5-2-1.

Russell-Wilt ... 5 Finals Games:

Russell: 11.2 ppg, 25.2 rpg, 6.3 apg, and on a .386 eFG%

Wilt: 29.2 ppg, 27.6 rpg, 2.4 apg, and on a .517 eFG%.

Wilt went 5-0 in scoring, including margins of 30-14, 27-8, 35-16, and 32-9. He also held a 3-2 edge in rebounding H2H's, including a 38-19 shellacking.

Continued...

LAZERUSS

03-07-2016, 10:04 PM

64-65:

This year added two more HOF centers into the mix, rookie Willis Reed, and Nate Thurmond, who would become the Warriors full-time center after Wilt was traded at mid-season...to go along with Bellamy, Russell, and Wilt.

I mentioned that Wilt was traded at mid-season. Bill Simmons would have you believe that he was traded for "pennies on the dollar." He was actually traded for three players, two of whom were decent (Paul Neumann and Connie Dierking), AND $150,000 cash. To give you a better perspective on that cash amount, the Sixer ownership bought the entire Syracuse Nats franchise for $500,000 in 1964. And, as a side-note, the San Francisco owners bought the Warrior franchise (with Wilt) just two years earlier, for $850,000.

And Wilt was not traded because he was some selfish malcontent, either. He was battling a mysterious illness for half of that season. He missed the first six games of the year, and another in December, (and SF went 1-6 in them BTW), and had lost weight (some sources quote a lot of weight, while other claim it was only about 15 lbs.)

The Warriors' owners were also losing money. Even with Wilt, they were not drawing well at home (which was the only revenue back then...they did not split the gates.) Furthermore, their team doctors came back with shocking news about Wilt. He had heart problems! (Which is interesting, since they diagnosed him with it about 30 years sooner than anyone else.) The owners panicked. They knew that they had a problem on their hands. If Wilt was indeed in poor health, they would be paying him a sizeable sum, and possibly losing him on the court...perhaps permanently. The team was struggling even with a sick Wilt (they would go 10-27 with Chamberlain, and ultimately, 7-36 without him.)

They began shopping Wilt around the league. The Lakers, whose center slot was getting slaughtered by the likes of Russell and Wilt, were among the interested parties. However, they supposedly conducted a team vote on whether to bring Wilt in, and they supposedly voted 9-2 not to acquire him. In retrospect, that may have cost the Lakers at least a couple of rings.

Wilt finally consulted his own physician, and it was determined that he had pancreatis, and not a heart problem. The Warriors didn't take any chances, and dealt with to the Sixers.

The deal was made easier because of the fact that they could now move Thurmond, who was playing part-time, and out of position, to the center slot. Thurmond had played brilliantly in Wilt's absence in the six games that Chamberlain had missed. In those six games, Nate averaged 23.7 ppg, and in the four known rebounding games, he pulled down an average of 26.8 rpg!

Which is interesting. I have long claimed that there have been many players who hit their peaks very early in their careers. There is a long list, but players like Bellamy, McAdoo, Lanier, and even MJ and KAJ hit their statistical peaks with 1-4 years.

How about Nate? In only his second season, he started 40 games, and in those he averaged 20.9 ppg, and in the known 17 games with rebounds, he averaged a staggering 24.9 rpg. When you factor in that his career high season in scoring was 21.9 (in 43 games in '70), and full-time season (relatively, with 71 games) in '68-69 was 21.5 ppg, you could certainly argue that he was at least close to his peak by his second season in the league. True, he only shot .419 overall from the field in that season, but it must be mentioned that, aside from Wilt, Bellamy, and Jerry Lucas, that really no other relatively high scorers were approaching 50%, and in fact, were around .450 at best. To put Nate's .419 in better perspective, the NBA shot an eFG% of .426 in that 64-65 season. In Nate's best FG% season, 72-73, when he shot .446, the league eFG% was up to .456. So, overall, Nate was already close to his peak by his second season.

And how about Nate's defense? I will give the specifics later, but he dramatically reduced Reed's, Bellamy's, and even Wilt's scoring (albeit, Chamberlain still crushed him.) And offensively, he averaged over 20.0 ppg against Bellamy, Reed, and even Russell in his 64-65 H2H starts. Only Wilt held him below the 20 ppg mark.

As for rookie Reed...he was certainly not at his peak, but he was already a top notch player in that first year. As a matter of fact, he averaged 19.5 ppg on the season, but exceeded that average against Bellamy, Wilt, and even Russell. Thurmond completely shut him down, though.

Back to Wilt. In his 63-64 season, he led the Warriors to a 48-32 record. And his second best player was Tom Meschery, who would average 13 ppg. Why is that important, you ask? Because after Wilt was traded to the Sixers, the Warriors completely bottomed out. They finished 17-63, which enabled them to draft future HOFer Rick Barry. And, as already mentioned, they moved Nate to the center position, where he would become an all-time great center.

BUT, even with Barry and Nate, they could only go 35-45 in 65-66. Then, they added players like Jeff Mullins, Clyde Lee, and Fred Hetzel of that roster. In the 66-67 season, Rick Barry would have the greatest season of his career, averaging 35.6 ppg, Thurmond would also have his greatest season, with an 19-21 campaign, and in which he came in second (behind Wilt) in the MVP balloting. Meschery was now the Warriors SEVENTH best player, averaging 11 ppg. With all of that talent, the Warriors could only go 44-37. And they would get shellacked in the Finals by Wilt's 68-13 Sixers (in a series in which Chamberlain just mopped the floor with a peak Nate.)

So, Wilt, basically by himself, carried a putrid SF roster to their best record in the decade of the 60's, which was even better than the Warriors could do with a peak Barry and Nate, and with a much better supporting cast than what Wilt had in '64.

So, now on to the second part of that "trade." The "Bashers" will point to Wilt playing for a losing team in the first half of that season, but they will NEVER bring up what happened AFTER that trade. Chamberlain was once again joining a losing team. The Sixers had gone 34-46 the year before and missed the playoffs. Still, they had some talent...more than Chamberlain had had at any point with the Warriors. While they were still not a good team, they had Hal Greer, Chet Walker, and Luke Jackson.

With a better supporting cast, Chamberlain's shooting dropped, and his scoring went from 38.9 ppg with the Warriors, down to 30.1 with the Sixers. And when Wilt arrived, the team chemistry went on an expected roller-coaster ride. The Sixers wound up with a 40-40 record, but they qualified for the playoffs.

From that point on Chamberlain became as unstoppable as any time in his career. He led the Sixers past Oscar's stacked 48-32 Royal team in a romp, which included a monster clinching win performance of 38 points and 26 rebounds.

Then, he single-handedly carried the Sixers to a game seven, one point loss, against Russell's 62-18 Celtics...a team at the peak of it's dynasty. In arguably the most one-sided beatdown by one HOF center to another, Chamberlain just obliterated Russell in that seven game series. Russell slightly outplayed Wilt in game three, but Wilt just waxed Russell in the other six.

Furthermore, in game seven, Chamberlain "the choker" exploded for a 30 point, 12-15 FG/FGA, 32 rebound game. Not only that, with Boston leading 110-101 and three minutes remaining, Wilt took over. He scored six of Philly's last eight points, including 2-2 from the line with 36 seconds remaining, and then a thurnderous dunk over a helpless Russell with five seconds left to draw the Sixers to within one point. The "clutch" Russell then hit a guidewire with the inbounds pass, and the Sixers had the ball under their basket with a chance to pull off perhaps the biggest upset in NBA post-season history. Alas, "Havlicek stole the ball!", and Boston escaped with a narrow win. BTW, that was just one of many big games by a Russell teammate during his 11 title runs. Even Russell admitted that Sam Jones saved Boston's season six times in their first eight rings.

Chamberlain was now almost universally accepted as the best player in the game. Beginning with the very next season, Wilt would go on to win the first of three straight MVPs (the last two were runaways BTW.) And, for the entire decade of the 60's, Chamberlain held a massive 7-2 edge in First team All-NBA selections over Russell.

Russell Vs. Wilt in 11 reg H2H's: 12.6 ppg, 22.2 rpg, 4.6 apg, .281 FG% (10 known)

Wilt vs. Russell in 11 reg H2H's: 25.4 ppg, 26.5 rpg, 4.2 apg, .473 FG%

The Chamberlain-Russell duels were continuing to become more-and-more one-sided, as well. In their 11 regular season H2H's, Chamberlain enjoyed a 10-1 scoring edge (and Russell's lone "win" was 11-8 in a game in which Wilt left injured.) Included were margins of 24-6, 31-7, and 37-16. Wilt also outrebounded Russell by an 8-3 margin, which included margins of 32-24, 26-17, 34-17, and 43-26. And again, look at Russell's known FG%... an unfathomable .281 in the known 10 of their 11 season H2H's (and in one game Russell shot an unbelievable 0-14!)!

Russell vs, Wilt in 7 EDF games:
15.6 ppg, 25.1 rpg, 6.7 apg, .447 FG%.

Russell's high point game in the EDF"s against Wilt was 22 points. His high rebounding game was 32.

Wilt vs Russell in 7 EDF's games:

30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, 3.3 apg, and a .555 eFG%.

Wilt outscored Russell in all 7 games, including margins of 30-15, 34-18, 30-12, 30-12, and 33-11. Chamberlain also held a 5-2 margin in rebounding H2H's in that post-season, including margins of 37-26, and 39-16.

Continuing...

LAZERUSS

03-07-2016, 10:05 PM

65-66:

65-66.

Arguably only Chamberlain's very next season would rank higher all-time.

How dominant was Wilt in 65-66? He led the league in scoring, rebounding, and FG%...AND, to the best record in the league. Overall, Chamberlain led the NBA in THIRTEEN of their 23 major statistical categories, including Win Shares (and by a MILE) and PER at 28.3 (BTW...that PER sure seems low considering all he did.) And, of course, those statistical categories did not include offensive and defensive rebounding, nor TRB%, nor blocked shots...all of which Wilt would probably have run away with. BTW, Chamberlain not only led the NBA in 13 categories, but he finished in the Top-5 in four more.

But his dominance went well beyond his overall league numbers. He also just ANNIHILATED his HOF opposing centers in the process. I didn't include Reed in these numbers, simply because early in the season, the Knicks acquired Walt Bellamy, and then moved Reed to PF. Reed's numbers naturally took a big hit. His scoring fell to 15.5 ppg, his rebounding declined to 11.6 rpg, and his FG% was only .434.

Thurmond's overall numbers, as a starter, also dropped somewhat from his 64-65 season. Remember, in Nate's 40 games as a starter in 64-65, he averaged 20.9 ppg, and in his known 17 rebounding games, he was at 24.9 rpg that season. In the 65-66 season, he came in at 16.3 ppg, 18.0 rpg, and shot .406. Still, his offensive production naturally declined somewhat because of the arrival of rookie Rick Barry, who would average 25.7 ppg in that season.

Chamberlain's Sixers had the best record in the league, at 55-25, but they had to win their last 11 straight games to pass the seven-time defending champion Celtics, who finished at 54-26. And, Wilt's Sixers also held a 6-3 margin over Russell's Celtics in their nine H2H games. But, the fact remained that Boston had the best roster in the league. Their won-loss record was very deceptive simply because the core of their roster missed a ton of games. Russell missed two games, Havlicek missed nine, and Sam Jones missed 13.

Again, Wilt's Sixers went 6-3 against Boston in their nine regular season H2H's, BUT, in the EDF's, the Celtics waltzed past Philly, 4-1. The "Wilt-bashers" would blame Wilt, of course, BUT, the reality was, Wilt's playoff numbers were nearly identical to his regular season H2H numbers against Boston in that series. The reason for the Sixer collapse? Chamberlain's teammates collectively shot...get this... .352 from the field in the EDF's.

Russell vs Wilt in 9 regular season H2H's:

Russell: 9.4 ppg, 21.2 rpg, 4.9 apg, .301 FG%
Wilt: 28.3 ppg, 30.7 rpg, 4.1 apg, and .473 FG%

Just a staggering domination.

Wilt outscored Russell 8-0-1, and had scoring margins of 31-11, 27-6, 29-3, 32-8, 30-5, and 37-13.

Wilt held a 5-4 rebounding edge, but he also crushed Russell by margins of 32-22, 30-20, 36-20, 30-10, 42-21, and 40-17.

Russell vs. Wilt in 5 EDF games:

Russell: 14.0 ppg, 26.3 rpg, 5.6 pg, .424 FG%

Wilt: 28.0 ppg, 30.2 rpg, 3.0 apg .509 FG%

Wilt held a 4-1 scoring margin, including margins of 31-11, and 46-18. He also had a 4-1 rebounding advantage, including a margin of 32-18.

Continued...

LAZERUSS

03-07-2016, 10:07 PM

Continuing...

66-67:

Most knowledgeable observers rank Wilt's '67 season as not only the greatest single season of his career, but many rank it as the greatest season ever, by anyone.

Chamberlain finally had an equal supporting cast to Russell, and a truly great coach in Alex Hannum. Hannum took essentially the same roster that had gone 55-25 the year before, but had leaned heavily on Wilt, and came to the conclusion that they could function better by being more balanced. And, of course, the key to that was Wilt. Hannum asked Chamberlain to become more of a facilitator, and Wilt was more than happy to comply.

The results were astonishing. The Sixers destroyed the eight-time defending champion Celtics in an early season encounter, 138-96, and then just ran away with from the league. They bolted out to a 46-4 record and then cruised home to a then NBA record of 68-13. The loaded Celtics may have fielded their finest team of the Russell-era, but they came in at a distant second with a 60-21 mark.

And while Wilt's scoring declined somewhat, his overall efficiency was just staggering. He "only" averaged 24.1 ppg, but it came on an eye-popping .683 FG% (and in an NBA that shot an eFG% of .441.) His .162 margin over the runner-up Bellamy is still an all-time record (.683 to Bellamy's .521.) And during the season he put up the three highest "perfect games" in NBA history, with games of 15-15, 16-16, and 18-18 from the field. He also set an NBA record of 35 straight made FGAs. He also had games of 11-11, 13-13, 10-11, 10-11, and 16-17 from the field, as well.

His passing was phenomenal, too. His 7.8 apg is still the second best mark of all-time by a center, training only his 67-68 season of 8.6. Included were 21 "triple doubles", and some of those were amazing. In one, he put up a 38-32-10 16-21 FG/FGA game, and in one of the greatest game's ever, he hung a 42-30-10 18-18 FG/FGA game.

Unfortunately, the NBA did not "officially" record blocked shots, so we will never know how many "quad doubles" that he had, but he did have a memorable known quad game against HOFer Nate Thurmond early in the season. In fact, it was even more amazing considering that his coach decided to abandon Wilt's facilitating at halftime because it wasn't working well. Chamberlain wound up with a 30-26-13-12 game against Nate, but he just annihilated Thurmond in the second half with a 24 point barrage.

Regarding Wilt's "decline" in scoring, he actually put up the league high game that year, with a 58 point game on 26-34 shooting from the field. He also had three more 40+ point games (41 on 16-17 shooting, 43 on 20-28 shooting, and that 42 point game on 18-18 shooting.) Rick Barry won the scoring title, with a 35.6 ppg (which BTW, was the highest full-time non-Wilt average during Wilt's 14 seasons in the league.) However, even Barry acknowledged that he (Barry) won it simply because Wilt didn't want it. Everyone in the league knew that Wilt could have easily won it had he been so inclined.

As for Wilt's HOF peers, again Reed was playing PF alongside Bellamy on the Knicks. And Reed's numbers cut into Bellamy's somewhat. Bells declined to 19.0 ppg, 13.5 rpg, and that .521 FG%.

Nate Thurmond supplanted Russell as the second best center (and player) in the league. In fact, Nate would finish a distant second to Chamberlain in the MVP voting. Thurmond had the finest season of his career (albeit, as almost always, he was injury-plagued.) He averaged 18.7 ppg, 21.3 rpg, and shot .437 from the field. However, because of Barry's shot-jacking, Nate's scoring was affected. He had already established by his second season, that, as a starter, he was capable of 20+ ppg seasons.

Thurmond's one-on-one defense was just spectacular. He would hold Bellamy to a 12.4 ppg average in their six H2H's. In fact, Nate owned Bellamy in their career H2H's. However, as great a defender as Nate was and would be throughout his career, he was helpless against a prime Wilt. Their 66-67 season would be no different...both in the regular season, and when the two met in the Finals. No other HOF center, including a peak Kareem, ever crushed Thurmond like a prime Chamberlain.

Russell was now the league's third best center, and the reality was, when Nate was healthy, Thurmond was the second best center in the league until Russell retired after the 68-69 season. Still, Russell had one of his better all-around seasons, averaging 13.3 ppg, 21.0 rpg, 5.8 apg, and on a .454 FG%.

After the Sixers steamrolled the NBA during the regular season, they pummelled Oscar's Royals in the first round of the playoffs. In the first game of that series, Chamberlain hung a 41 point game, on 19-30 shooting, which would be the highest scoring game by a Sixer in the post-season. He followed that up with a 37 point game, on 16-24 shooting. In game three he resumed his facilitating, and had a monster 16-30-19 (with an estimated 20 blocked shots.) Those 19 assists were a post-season record (tied with Cousy) at the time. And, of course, it is still, by far, the most ever by a center in the post-season. For the series, Wilt averaged 28.0 ppg, 26.5 rpg, 11.0 apg (yes a triple-double series), and on a .617 FG% (in a post-season that would shoot .428.)

Chamberlain's Sixers then met the eight-time defending champion Celtics. The Wilt critics eagerly anticipated his team folding, though. However, it never came close to happening. The Sixers easily won the first three games of the series. In game one, Chamberlain hung an official "quad double" with a monster 24-32-13-12 game. In game three he set an all-time playoff record with a 41 rebound game. However, with Wilt hobbled by sore knees, the Celtics narrowly avoided a sweep in game four. Wilt had a good game, 22-22-10 but he was outrebounded by Russell for the only time in the series, 28-22, and Boston escaped with a 121-117 win.

The proud Celtics came out on fire in game five. Late in the first period they opened up a 17 point lead, and the Wilt skeptics now held some hope for a possible "choke job." However, Wilt pounded Russell in the first half with 22 points, and single-handedly kept his Sixers in the game, and by halftime Philly had closed to within 70-65. The 76ers started pulling away in the third quarter, and by mid-way in the 4th period they were routing the Celtics by a 131-104 margin... en route to a 140-116 win. From late in the first quarter, to mid-way thru the 4th, the Sixers had outscored Boston by 44 points!

And the Russell supporters have never been able to answer this question, either:

In the clinching game five of the '66 EDF's, Wilt's Sixers were down 3-1 against Russell's Celtics. Chamberlain exploded for a 46 point, 34 rebound game, but alas, with his teammates contributing absolutely nothing in that series, Philly lost the game, 120-112.

In the 66-67 EDF's, it was now Russell who was faced with that exact same scenario. His team was down 3-1, and desperately needed Russell to come up with a huge effort. Instead, Russell led the quietly, like a lamb being led to slaughter, in a blowout loss. Why? Where was Russell's 46 point game against Wilt? In that game five loss, Russell scored FOUR points, on 2-5 shooting, with 21 rebounds, and 7 assists. Meanwhile, Chamberlain "the choker" had 29 points (again, 22 of which came in the first half when the game was still close), on 10-16 shooting, with 36 rebounds, 13 assists, and seven blocked shots.

For the series, Chamberlain outscored Russell, per game, 21.6 ppg to 11.4 ppg; outebounded Russell by a staggering 32.0 rpg to 23.4 rpg margin; outassisted Russell by a 10.0 apg to 6.0 apg (yes, yet another triple double series); and outshot Russell from the floor by a .556 to .358 margin. And in their known games, Wilt outblocked Russell by a 29-8 margin.

Wilt then faced his former Warrior team, and Thurmond, in the Finals. While the overall numbers were somewhat close, they were very deceiving. Wilt badly outplayed Thurmond in the last five games of that six game series, in leading his Sixers to a 4-2 title romp. Wilt outscored Nate, 17.7 ppg to 14.3 ppg; outrebounded Nate, 28.5 rpg to 26.7 rpg; outassisted Nate, 6.8 apg to 3.3 apg; and outshot Thurmond by an unfathomable .560 to .343 margin. Overall, Wilt outscored Nate, 5-1; outrebounded Nate, 5-1; outassisted Nate, 5-1; and outshot Nate from the floor, 6-0, in those six games. And in the title-clinching game six, Wilt outscored Thurmond, 24-12; outrebounded Nate, 23-22; and outshot him by an 8-13 to 4-13 margin. Just a complete and one-sided beatdown.

Russell vs Wilt in 9 regular season H2H's:

Russell: 12.2 ppg, 21.1 rpg, 4.1 apg, .425 FG% (8 known)
Wilt: 20.3 ppg, 26.7 rpg, 6.3 apg, .549 FG%

Russell's high point game against Wilt was 22 points. His high rebounding game against Chamberlain was 29. Wilt had 4 games of 20+ points against Russell, with a high of 30 points. Chamberlain had two games of 31 and 32 reounds. Overall, Wilt outscored Russell, 8-1, and outrebounded Russell, 7-2.

Russell vs. Wilt in 5 EDF's H2H's:

Russell: 11.4 ppg, 23.4 rpg, 6.0 apg, .358 FG%
Wilt: 21.6 ppg, 32.0 rpg, 10.0 apg, and on a .556 FG%

Russell's high point game was 20 points, and his high rebounding game was 29. Wilt had 4 games of 20+ points, with a high of 29. And Wilt also had 3 games of 30+ rebounds (32, 36, and 41.) Overall, Wilt outscored Russell, 5-0; outrebounded Russell, 4-1; outassisted Russell, 3-0-2; and outshot Russell, 5-0.

Continued...

InsanityKills

03-07-2016, 10:09 PM

Weak era, not impressed.

LAZERUSS

03-07-2016, 10:09 PM

Continuing...

67-68:

After leading his Sixers to the most dominating season in NBA history, and running away with his second straight MVP, Chamberlain was on top of the world entering his 67-68 season. He was clearly the best player in the league (and history), and every time he stepped on the floor he was either setting new records, or extending them. He was also the highest paid player in the league, and had just signed a one year contract at $250,000, which was far more than anyone had ever made to that point (Oscar was reportedly making $60,000, and his owner didn't think he was worth it.)

Still, all was not well. Wilt would be turning 31, and his years of playing nearly every minute, of nearly every game, were beginning to catch up to him. He was battling an assortment of ailments, including shin splints, muscle cramps, and aching knees. Furthermore, while he was making a huge sum of money (at the time obviously), he was in a heated dispute with Philly management. Wilt claimed that the previous Sixer owner, Ike Richmond, had promised him a share of ownership of the team. However, there was never anything in writing, and the new ownership group, headed by Irv Kozloff, weren't about to concede any ownership to Chamberlain.

However, Wilt did have one huge "ace in the hole." The newly formed ABA was in it's infancy, but would quickly be snatching NBA players. In fact, Rick Barry jumped to the ABA right after the championship series (however, he had to sit out the 67-68 season.) Clearly, Wilt would have been the biggest prize, and in fact, his presence alone, would have given the league instant legitimacy. And he had only signed a one year deal before the start of the 67-68 season, and would eligible to immediately sign on with the ABA after the '68 season.

Wilt readily admitted that he was finding it difficult to get motivated, especially over the course of an 82 game season. However, he had finished a stunning third in apg in the '67 campaign, and openly admitted that he wanted to lead the league in assists in '68. Bill Simmons, years later, took a shot at Wilt's "stats-padding", but the reality was, with Wilt SHARING the ball even more, no teammate complained about it. NOR did it have ANY negative effect on Chamberlain's Sixers, who would once again, run roughshod over the entire NBA.

I mentioned it a few posts back, but Chamberlain had a "roller coaster" season in '68. In his first 17 games, he was only averaging 15.0 ppg, albeit along with 8.3 apg, and 23.8 rpg. In one game against Thurmond in that span, he didn't take a FGA. And his Sixers, who had gone 46-4 in their first 50 games in the '67 season, were sitting at 12-5, and trailing Boston by two games (14-3.)

Virtually no one in the league was concerned, however. Rick Barry, who had won the scoring title in '67 at 35.6 ppg (BTW, the highest full-time "non-Wilt" scoring average IN the "Wilt-era"), had remarked that he (Barry), had won the scoring title, simply because Wilt didn't want it.

But, Chamberlain hit a two straight game period, against Bellamy and Nate, in which he only put up a combined 22 points, on a horrific 6-23 shooting. Of course, any time someone even whispered that Wilt might be slipping...boom...he exploded for a 52 point game, on 22-29 shooting, with 37 rebounds. But that game was also an example of Wilt's growing "achilles heel"...as he shot a shocking 8-30 from the FT line.

Beginning with that 52 point explosion, Chamberlain went on a mini rampage, in which he averaged 33 ppg over the course of 12 straight games, which included three consecutive monster games of 68, 47, and 53 points. The 68 point game was easily the NBA high that season.

Wilt's numbers against his HOF peers declined considerably from his absolute domination of them in the first eight years of his career (8 against Russell, 6 against Bellamy, and 3 against Thurmond.) Dankok8 has mentioned that Thurmond outplayed Wilt in their limited H2H's (Nate was injured for almost half the season, and played four H2H's against Chamberlain.) However, we only have two games in which their FG%'s were recorded, and even then, and as always, Wilt outshot Nate (.379 to .342.) The two split their scoring and rebounding "wins", and overall, Nate had a slight edge.

Wilt still easily outplayed Bellamy in their eight regular season H2H's, and just pounded Russell in their eight H2H's. As a side-note, Wilt held Russell to a head-shaking .283 FG% in their six known regular season H2H's. And in their regular season meetings from '63 thru '68, Wilt held Russell to known FG%'s of .366, .367, .281, .301, .425, and .283. And while Russell shot somewhat better against Wilt in their post-season H2H's, he was just light years behind Chamberlain in overall FG% efficiency in both their regular, and their post-season H2H's (Wilt also RAISED his FG% against Russell in the post-season.)

Wilt's Sixers were seemingly going thru the motions in the first half of the '68 season. After 32 games, they were still two games behind the Celtics (25-7 to 23-9), but a four game Boston losing streak allowed the Sixers to slip past them, and they slowly pulled away after that. But in their first 52 games, Philly was sitting at 37-15, and just cruising. They did finish on a tear, though, going 25-5 in their last 30 games, to again, run away with the best record in the league (62-20 to the Hawks 56-26, and Boston's 54-28.)

Chamberlain was piling up assists at an amazing rate, (especially for a center), and in his last 12 games of the season, he had 11 "triple doubles", including an NBA record of nine in a row. Not only that, he was just terrorizing the league in every facet of the game. In 10 of those 11 triple-doubles, he scored 20+ points, including four of 30+, and perhaps the most phenomenal triple double in NBA history, when he jack-hammered the helpless Lakers with a 53 point (on 24-29 shooting), 32 rebound, and 14 assist game. And their are even unverified estimates of Wilt blocking 24 shots, and recording 11 steals in that same game. Oh, and with Oscar missing 17 games, Chamberlain did in fact lead the NBA in assists, with 702 (8.6 apg.)

Overall, Wilt averaged 24.3 ppg, 23.8 rpg (ran away with the rebounding title by nearly 5 per game), and shot .595 from the field (again, a runaway win), and those 8.6 apg. And he also led the league in Defensive Win Shares, at 10.73, which is the eighth highest all-time, and the highest "non-Russell" season in NBA history.

And for the third straight season, he ran away with the MVP award, and none of his HOF peers (Russell, Thurmond, Bellamy, or even PF Reed) even showed up in the voting. Chamberlain left no doubt that he was the greatest player in the world, and by a mile.

Russell vs. Wilt in 8 regular season H2H's:

Russell: 7.8 ppg, 17.5 rpg, 4.8 apg (5 known), .283 FG% (6 known)
Wilt: 17.1 ppg, 26.1 rpg, 8.5 apg, .471 FG% (5 known)

Simply no contest. Wilt dominated Russell (as he always did BTW.) Chamberlain had scoring highs of 31 and 23 points, while Russell was in single digits in six of the eight, and his high games were 16 and 12 points. Overall, Wilt held an 8-0 scoring margin. Chamberlain also held a 6-1-1 rebounding margin, which included margins of 27-16, 33-19, 27-12, 24-8, and 29-18.

Russell vs Wilt in EDF's 7 H2H's:

Russell: 13.7 ppg, 23.9 rpg, 4.1 apg, .440 FG%.
Wilt: 22.1 ppg, 25.1 rpg, 6.7 apg, .487 FG%.

Again, this was simply no contest until game's 6 and 7. In the first five games, Chamberlain outscored Russell, 24.2 ppg to 13.3 ppg; outrebounded Russell, 23.0 rpg to 22.0 rpg; outassisted Russell, 6.8 apg to 5.4 apg, and outshot Russell, .539 to .416. Overall, Wilt outscored Russell, 6-1; outrebounded Russell, 4-3; and outassisted Russell, 6-0-1. Chamberlain had scoring highs of 33, 28, 23, 22, while Russell had highs of 24, and 17 points. Wilt had high rebounding games of 34, 30, and 27. Russell's high rebounding games were 31, 26, and 24.

Continued...