Wilt played with 10 HOF teammates

[Deuce Bigalow]

'60 - Paul Arizen, Tom Gola, Guy Rodgers
'61 - Paul Arizen, Tom Gola, Guy Rodgers
'62 - Paul Arizen, Tom Gola, Guy Rodgers
'63 - Tom Gola, Guy Rodgers
'64 - Nate Thurmond, Guy Rodgers
'65 - Nate Thurmond, Hal Greer, Chet Walker, Guy Rodgers
'66 - Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham, Chet Walker
'67 - Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham, Chet Walker
'68 - Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham, Chet Walker
'69 - Jerry West, Elgin Baylor
'70 - Jerry West, Elgin Baylor
'71 - Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Gail Goodrich
'72 - Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Gail Goodrich
'73 - Jerry West, Gail Goodrich

Has any player played with more?

[SouBeachTalents]

Russell?

[Dr Hawk]

Russell?

I guess this is the right answer

[Deuce Bigalow]

Russell?
Russell played with 9 that got in to the HOF strictly as player. 3 got in as contributor or coach (Don Nelson, Tom Sanders, Wayne Embry).

[Deuce Bigalow]

Russell's

Cousy
Havlicek
Heinsohn
Ramsey
KC Jones
Sam Jones
Lovellette
Sharman
Risen

[VIP2000]

Shaq?

Dennis Rodman (lol)
Kobe
Karl Malone
Gary Payton
Dwyane Wade
Alonzo Mourning
Steve Nash
Kevin Garnett
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
LeBron James

He also played briefly with Grant Hill and Amare Stoudemire. Neither are likely going to be in the Hall of Fame but ya never know.

[jongib369]

This argument has been fleshed out before....Hoping to trick the new wave of posters that weren't around then? Lmao

You should go back to pretending you're a Wilt guy...That shit was gold :lol
When was that, like 2-3 years ago?

[ImKobe]

Russell's

Cousy
Havlicek
Heinsohn
Ramsey
KC Jones
Sam Jones
Lovellette
Sharman
Risen

half of them are HOFs strictly because of Russell.

[Deuce Bigalow]

half of them are HOFs strictly because of Russell.
I'll give them all their dues except for KC Jones, that's all Russell. His career highs in every category: 9.2/4.7/6.3 on .408, 0 all-star teams, 0 all-NBA teams.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Shaq?

Dennis Rodman (lol)
Kobe
Karl Malone
Gary Payton
Dwyane Wade
Alonzo Mourning
Steve Nash
Kevin Garnett
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
LeBron James

He also played briefly with Grant Hill and Amare Stoudemire. Neither are likely going to be in the Hall of Fame but ya never know.
He definitely ring chased at the tail end of his career, the Boston years are irrelevant tbh.

[Deuce Bigalow]

This argument has been fleshed out before....Hoping to trick the new wave of posters that weren't around then? Lmao

You should go back to pretending you're a Wilt guy...That shit was gold :lol
When was that, like 2-3 years ago?
Last year I think? GOAT WILT :bowdown:

[LAZERUSS]

Russell's

Cousy
Havlicek
Heinsohn
Ramsey
KC Jones
Sam Jones
Lovellette
Sharman
Risen

And Bailey Howell, who was a 24 scorer before Russell, and a 20 ppg scorer with Russell.

Risen was interesting as well. He only played on Russell's teams for two years, but in Russell's rookie season, he missed 24 games. In the 48 games that Russell played, Boston went 28-20 (.583.) In the 24 he missed, and with Risen in his place, Boston went 16-8 (.667.)

Lovellette is another interesting one. In the season before Boston traded for him, he averaged 21 ppg on a .470 FG% (which was very good at the time.) In his two years in Boston he averaged about 6.5 ppg. Why? because he was Boston's EIGHTH best player. BTW, Chamberlain effectively ended his career with one punch.

Ok, here we go...

Risen with Russell... 2 years.
Embry (5 time AS)... 2 years.
Lovellette... 2 years.
Howell... 4 years.
Sharman... 5 years.
Cousy... 7 seasons.
Havlicek... 7 seasons
Ramsey... 8 seasons.
Heinsohn...who was ROY the same year Russell was a rookie... 9 seasons.
KC Jones... 9 seasons (regarded as a top defensive guard in his era.)
Satch Sanders (regarded as the best defensive forward of his era)... 9 seasons.
Sam Jones... 12 seasons.

Don Nelson is in as coach, but he played 4 years with Russell.

That's 78 seasons, and then 82 if you want to count Nelson's, in which Russell played with his HOF teammates.

Furthermore, Russell had an edge in HOF support EVERY season in his 10 years in the league with Wilt, and some by HUGE margins. For example, in '63 Russell played with EIGHT HOF teammates. How about Wilt...ONE (and he was the most inefficient shooter, and by a large margin, of his era.)

Ok, Wilt's turn.

Thurmond? This is laughable. Nate played with Chamberlain, in his rookie season, part-time, out of position, and backed Wilt up for a few minutes the entire season. Same the next season. Hardly played, and when he did, it was out of position. Wilt was traded at mid-season, and Thurmond became the Warriors starting center and would go on to have a HOF career.

But, we will give him ... 1 season (again, as a part-timer.)

So, Thurmond... 1 season.

Cunningham... 3 seasons, and basically missed the post-season in the 2nd one. So, really only 2 since he missed almost all of the post-season.

Goodrich... 3 seasons (BTW, the three best of his career.)

Arizin...3 seasons...the last three of his career (and he was awful in the post-season in two of them.

Gola... 3 seasons. He is in the HOF, but certainly not as an NBA player. In any case, he had two horendous post-seasons with Wilt, and missed some games in the third post-season. Those two... he shot .271 and .206. BTW, he was just as awful in the post-season before Wilt.

Greer... 3 1/2 seasons. (Wilt was traded at mid-season.)
Walker... 3 1/2 seasons.

Baylor... 4 seasons. Wait...he played nine games in '72 and quit. Wait, he played two games in '71, and missed the rest of the season, including the post-season. So, ...2 seasons...but wait, Chamberlain missed almost all of the '70 season, but did play in the post-season. Finally, Wilt and Baylor had ONE FULL season together, and guess what...Baylor was just AWFUL in that ONE post-season.

But, we will give Baylor... 2 years.

West. 5 seasons with Wilt. Wait...West missed the last 1/4th of the '71 season, and the entire playoffs. Oh, and he was brilliant in the '69 post-season, and was generally brilliant in the '70 post-season, until game seven of the Finals, when he puked all over the floor, and was just destroyed by Frazier. Oh, and in his '72 post-season, he shot .376 in the playoffs, and then a miserable .325 in the Finals...and STILL won his ONLY ring. How come? Because WILT carried that team, and won a FMVP. Oh, and West was again horrific in his '73 post-season, and was worthless in the Finals.

So West... 4 seasons (can't count '71 when didn't play in the playoffs.)

Finally... Rodgers. Rodgers was just recently voted into the HOF...some 45 years after his last season. He was also the Ricky Rubio of his era...by FAR the most inefficient shooter. However, he STILL shot the ball! He has seasons of nearly 20 FGAs per game. And he was even worse in the post-season. In Wilt's '64 Finals, his two HOF teammates, part-timer Thurmond, and then Rodgers, shot .326 and .258 respectively.

Rodgers...8 seasons with Wilt.

Let's add them up... 32 regular and post-seasons.

So, here was the REALITY...

Russell played with HOF teammates a total of 78-82 seasons. Wilt... 33 seasons.

Technically we should remove the players whose career seasons didn't line up with either Russell, or Wilt. For instance, Risen never played in Wilt's era. And conversely, Goodrich never played with Wilt when Russell was in the league.

You get the idea...but in any case...

There is the REAL story about HOF teammates. And the REALITY was, Russell had a MASSIVE edge in their ten years in the league together.

[Deuce Bigalow]

^ Embry and Sanders made the HOF as contributors not as players. I missed Howell so that gives Russell and Wilt a total of 10 HOF teammates each. 67 seasons for Russell (your 78 minus Embry and Sanders since they were inducted as players) and 33 for Wilt as I'll grant you the fact that he didn't play with all of those HOFers as much as Russell did. A lot of Wilt's HOFers were indicted very late as well and some that don't belong such as KC Jones as I mentioned before so it's not just poor selections on Wilt's part plus you should factor in which seasons shouldn't count against Russell since I'll guess some of his teammates were injured and missed time as well.

[Sarcastic]

Is that supposed to be a knock against Wilt? I mean Kobe played with 7, so it's not like he didn't have help. But at least Wilt never played with someone that was better than him (Shaq - Kobe).

[Deuce Bigalow]

Is that supposed to be a knock against Wilt? I mean Kobe played with 7, so it's not like he didn't have help. But at least Wilt never played with someone that was better than him (Shaq - Kobe).
What? Jerry West was easily better than Wilt in 1969 and '70.

[Sarcastic]

What? Jerry West was easily better than Wilt in 1969 and '70.


I meant all time. Shaq >> Kobe, and carried him to his rings.

West retires ringless without Wilt.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I meant all time. Shaq >> Kobe, and carried him to his rings.

West retires ringless without Wilt.
That's easily arguable at the very least and Wilt would have ONE ring without West.

'69 finals
West - 37.9 ppg
Wilt - 11.7 ppg

West FMVP, Lakers lose in 7..

[Sarcastic]

That's easily arguable at the very least and Wilt would have ONE ring without West.

'69 finals
West - 37.9 ppg
Wilt - 11.7 ppg

West FMVP, Lakers lose in 7..


Doesn't change the fact that Shaq >>> West + Baylor.

Kobe's teammates were better at the top than Wilt's. Playing with even one top 10 GOAT candidate is more valuable than a few very good ones.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Doesn't change the fact that Shaq >>> West + Baylor.

Kobe's teammates were better at the top than Wilt's. Playing with even one top 10 GOAT candidate is more valuable than a few very good ones.
Doesn't matter, Kobe won 2 without him, that's Wilt's ring total.

[Sarcastic]

Doesn't matter, Kobe won 2 without him, that's Wilt's ring total.


So 1 more. :applause:

Did Kobe ever have to play against a dynasty like the Celtics, or a player like Russell?

[SouBeachTalents]

So 1 more. :applause:

Did Kobe ever have to play against a dynasty like the Celtics, or a player like Russell?

Even in the '70's he played great teams like the Reed/Frazier Knicks and Kareem/Oscar Bucks

[Deuce Bigalow]

So 1 more. :applause:

Did Kobe ever have to play against a dynasty like the Celtics, or a player like Russell?
The same Russell who is giving up 4 inches and 50+ who knows pounds to Wilt? Kobe was a part of dynasties, two of them from 2000-2002 and 2009-10 with and without Shaq.

[Sarcastic]

The same Russell who is giving up 4 inches and 50+ who knows pounds to Wilt? Kobe was a part of dynasties, two of them from 2000-2002 and 2009-10 with and without Shaq.


And yet, Wilt is still considered better than Kobe.

[Sarcastic]

You'd be in a much better position to knock Wilt if you were a Jordan stan. As a Kobe stan, you have no case.

[Deuce Bigalow]

And yet, Wilt is still considered better than Kobe.
Well of course, his name is all over the record book during the fastest pace and infancy era of the league.

[LAZERUSS]

What? Jerry West was easily better than Wilt in 1969 and '70.

NO he wasn't in '70. In fact, Wilt's new coach, Joe Mullaney, who replaced the "Butcher" Van Breda Kolff, immediately went to WILT, and asked HIM to become the focal point of the offense. Now, you mentioned somewhere that West led the league in scoring that year. Yes, he did, at 31.2 ppg...BUT, in the first nine games he was averaging 30.8 ppg, and TRAILED the league-leader, who just happened to be...you guessed it...WILT, at 32.2 ppg (and on a .579 FG%...all while averaging 20.6 rpg.)

Unfortunately, Wilt shredded his knee in that ninth game, and missed almost all of the remainder of the season.

BUT, in the first round, and with a Wilt at nowhere near 100%, the Lakers were down 3-1 to the Suns. Wilt hung THREE STRAIGHT monster games, even with his limited mobility and leaping ability...including a game seven of 30-27-6-11.

Sure, West played brilliantly in the first four games of the Finals...but even a one-legged Wilt battled a much healthier MVP Reed to a draw in those four games...and the series was tied 2-2. And Wilt was pounding Reed in game five, when Reed went down with HIS leg injury (the SAME injury that Wilt played every minute of the '68 EDF's with BTW.)

The Knicks went on to win that series in seven games, but an injured West just puked all over the floor in that game seven, and was destroyed by Frazier. Meanwhile, in the last three games of the Finals, all Wilt did was average 29 ppg, 24 rpg, and on a .708 FG%. For the series, Chamberlain averaged a 23-24 .625...all only four months removed from major knee surgery.

CLEARLY, Chamberlain was THE man in '70, and would carry the Lakers, and a worthless West to a ring in '72.

[LAZERUSS]

That's easily arguable at the very least and Wilt would have ONE ring without West.

'69 finals
West - 37.9 ppg
Wilt - 11.7 ppg

West FMVP, Lakers lose in 7..

Which, just goes to show you that the Lakers COACH made a FOOLISH decision in letting both West and Baylor shot-jack in that series. BTW, West MISSED more shots than he made in that game seven, and even missed FOUR FTs, including TWO in the 4th quarter.

VBK's decision to allow West to carry that team cost him his coaching career.

Of course, it would be CHAMBERLAIN bringing a title to LA a few years later, and with West just AWFUL in that post-season.

What a difference a COACH makes.

[LAZERUSS]

The same Russell who is giving up 4 inches and 50+ who knows pounds to Wilt? Kobe was a part of dynasties, two of them from 2000-2002 and 2009-10 with and without Shaq.

You mean the Shaq that outweighed the Smits (in his last season, and purely a stumble-bum by thgen), Mutombos ( a 35 year old that was just physically abused to the point of bloodshed), and McCulloch's (a 6 ppg scorer in his brief NBA career) by at least 50 lbs, and maybe as much as a 100?

[SouBeachTalents]

Which, just goes to show you that the Lakers COACH made a FOOLISH decision in letting both West and Baylor shot-jack in that series. BTW, West MISSED more shots than he made in that game seven, and even missed FOUR FTs, including TWO in the 4th quarter.

VBK's decision to allow West to carry that team cost him his coaching career.

Of course, it would be CHAMBERLAIN bringing a title to LA a few years later, and with West just AWFUL in that post-season.

What a difference a COACH makes.

That's pretty minuscule nitpicking man. He shot 14/29 from the field and 14/18 from the line while posting a 42/13/12 triple double in Game 7 of the Finals. You're basically demanding perfection if that isn't good enough for you

[Deuce Bigalow]

You mean the Shaq that outweighed the Smits (in his last season, and purely a stumble-bum by thgen), Mutombos ( a 35 year old that was just physically abused to the point of bloodshed), and McCulloch's (a 6 ppg scorer in his brief NBA career) by at least 50 lbs, and maybe as much as a 100?
At least Shaq won rings and FMVPs. Where are Wilt's? It was a Willis Reed that took 2 away from him. Too bad Wilt wasn't that much stronger than Reed, Reed held Wilt in check.

[Deuce Bigalow]

That's pretty minuscule nitpicking man. He shot 14/29 from the field and 14/18 from the line while posting a 42/13/12 triple double in Game 7 of the Finals. You're basically demanding perfection if that isn't good enough for you
Dude was the FMVP and is getting blamed..only a Wilt fan..

I found the 4th quarter stats

Jerry West - 17 points (5/7 FGs, 7/9 FTs)
Elgin Baylor - 6 points (2/6 FGs, 2/2 FTs)
John Havlicek - 4 points (1/3 FGs, 2/4 FTs)
Wilt Chamberlain - 3 points (1/1 FGs, 1/3 FTs)
Bill Russell - 2 points - (1/3 FGs, 0/0 FTs)

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240833

[TheMarkMadsen]

Wilt = 5th all time regular season scoring and 17th in playoff scoring

the rest of the top 5 in regular season scoring (KAJ, Kobe, Jordan and Malone) are all top 7 in playoff scoring. KAJ, Kobe and Jordan all rank top 4, while Malone ranks 7th. Wilt is the only guy in the top 5 scoring to not be in the top 10 playoff scoring

[LAZERUSS]

At least Shaq won rings and FMVPs. Where are Wilt's? It was a Willis Reed that took 2 away from him. Too bad Wilt wasn't that much stronger than Reed, Reed held Wilt in check.

First of all, the only time Reed faced a pre-injury in the playoffs...all Chamberlain did was wipe the floor with Reed's Knicks in a 4-2 series win. He steamrolled NY and led both teams in scoring, rebounding, assists (and the Knicks had WALT FRAZIER), and FG%. A 26-24-7 .584 series.

And just the year before Wilt shredded his knee, in their two H2H's with Reed playing center, Wilt outscored Reed by a 28.0 to 20.0 margin, outrebounded him by a 22 rpg to 14 rpg margin, and outshot him by a .688 to .459 margin.

And if you go back to the last season in which Reed was a full-time center, in the 64-65 season, all Chamberlain did in their 12 H2H's was to average 39 ppg on a .532 FG%. Which included margins of 41-9, 46-25, 52-23, and 58-28.

And a Wilt in the '70 Finals, and one leg for the entire series, as Reed was in the last three games...outscored Reed by a 23.2 ppg to 23.0 margin, outrebounded him by a 24.1 to 10.5 rpg margin, and outshot Reed by a .625 to .483 margin. Granted, the wussie Reed missed one of those games...but Chamberlain was in no better shape, and he played every minute of that series.

Reed winning the '70 FMVP was an absolute travesty.

As for '73...well Reed had FIVE HOF teammates, while Chamberlain had TWO, and one of them, West, was injured and worthless. And someone had to win that FMVP. Reed didn't outplay Wilt, though. BTW, in the last game of that series, which turned out to be the last game of Wilt's career...Chamberlain outscored Reed, 23-18, outrebounded him 21-12, and both shot 9-16 from the floor. So in the very last game of Wilt's career...yet just another 20-20 game.

[LAZERUSS]

Dude was the FMVP and is getting blamed..only a Wilt fan..

I found the 4th quarter stats

Jerry West - 17 points (5/7 FGs, 7/9 FTs)
Elgin Baylor - 6 points (2/6 FGs, 2/2 FTs)
John Havlicek - 4 points (1/3 FGs, 2/4 FTs)
Wilt Chamberlain - 3 points (1/1 FGs, 1/3 FTs)
Bill Russell - 2 points - (1/3 FGs, 0/0 FTs)

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240833

Did you watch that 4th quarter? When Russell picked up his 5th personal foul early in the period, the Lakers immediately went into Wilt, who went right around the matador Russell for an easy layin.He would get ONE more pass in the post in the quarter, and was fouled.

Am I blaming West? Well, Chamberlain was blamed for losses when he was hanging 34 ppg series on Russell. Why not West.

But, no...it was BAYLOR who lost that series, including a game seven of 8-22 from the floor, to go along with two other losses in which he shot 2-14 from the floor (and 1-6 from the line...in a one point loss), and 4-18 in another one.

Or, the REAL culprit...the Lakers COACH, who had no clue how to use Wilt, and even had him playing the high post, so that Baylor could shoot a team worst .385 in the post-season.

BTW, while Wilt played poorly in most of that series, WEST had his moments, as well. He and Baylor combined to shoot 1-14 from the field in the 4th quarter of game three...a six point loss.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt = 5th all time regular season scoring and 17th in playoff scoring

the rest of the top 5 in regular season scoring (KAJ, Kobe, Jordan and Malone) are all top 7 in playoff scoring. KAJ, Kobe and Jordan all rank top 4, while Malone ranks 7th. Wilt is the only guy in the top 5 scoring to not be in the top 10 playoff scoring

Again...CONTEXT. Give me the list of players who averaged 32.8 ppg in a string of 52 playoff games...all while grabbing 26 rpg, and handing out 5 apg, and on a FG% that was nearly ten percent above the post-season league average. Oh, and guess what, he also played against RUSSELL in 30 of those 52 games...and averaged 31 ppg on a .507 FG% against him (in post-seasons that shot about .420 in that same span.)

Maybe you can give us your list of players who had FOUR 50+ point playoff games while you are at..including THREE in must win games. Oh, and give me a list of players who hung a 45-27 must win game in their Finals, too.

[LAZERUSS]

At least Shaq won rings and FMVPs. Where are Wilt's? It was a Willis Reed that took 2 away from him. Too bad Wilt wasn't that much stronger than Reed, Reed held Wilt in check.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

In the four he won (three FMVPs)...he faced a stumble-bum Smits in his last season; a 35 year old Mutombo, whom he was allowed to just bloody; a McCulloch who averaged 6 ppg in his four seasons; and a Dampier, whom he barely outplayed.

BTW, this is how the Mutumbo H2H went...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3FXLyNFew

Do you think the NBA would have let Chamberlain get away with that? The same Wilt whom they constantly came up with RULES in order to reduce his overwhelming domination?

[dhsilv]

Shaq?

Dennis Rodman (lol)
Kobe
Karl Malone
Gary Payton
Dwyane Wade
Alonzo Mourning
Steve Nash
Kevin Garnett
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
LeBron James

He also played briefly with Grant Hill and Amare Stoudemire. Neither are likely going to be in the Hall of Fame but ya never know.

You're at least missing mitch richmond. And for "others" you've got guys like Penny, Nick Anderson, Scott Sciles (can't think of how to spell it), Glenn Rice, Eddie Jones, and Robert Horry.

[dhsilv]

Wilt = 5th all time regular season scoring and 17th in playoff scoring

the rest of the top 5 in regular season scoring (KAJ, Kobe, Jordan and Malone) are all top 7 in playoff scoring. KAJ, Kobe and Jordan all rank top 4, while Malone ranks 7th. Wilt is the only guy in the top 5 scoring to not be in the top 10 playoff scoring

are you going by total points? THere were a lot less games in the past...

[kennethgriffin]

Lebron:

Kevin Love
Kyrie Irving
Shawn Marion
Chris Bosh
Ray Allen
Dwyane Wade
zydrunas ilgauskas
antawn jamison
shaquille o'neal
ben wallace



same number of HOF teammates: 10

same finals record: 2 for 6




go figure

[VIP2000]

Lebron:

Kevin Love
Kyrie Irving
Shawn Marion
Chris Bosh
Ray Allen
Dwyane Wade
zydrunas ilgauskas
antawn jamison
shaquille o'neal
ben wallace

same number of HOF teammates: 10

same finals record: 2 for 6

go figure

Kyrie and Kevin Love have never even been to the playoffs without LeBron. Big Z is not sniffing the hall of fame. And if guys like Tom Chambers and Glen Rice are not in the Hall, neither should Jamison. Marion most likely won't get in either.

[dhsilv]

Kyrie and Kevin Love have never even been to the playoffs without LeBron. Big Z is not sniffing the hall of fame. And if guys like Tom Chambers and Glen Rice are not in the Hall, neither should Jamison. Marion most likely won't get in either.

I hope the voters get it right on Marion, he is a legit hall of fame guy. The others I agree with unless Z did more internationally than I'm aware of since that matters too.

[VIP2000]

I hope the voters get it right on Marion, he is a legit hall of fame guy. The others I agree with unless Z did more internationally than I'm aware of since that matters too.

Shawn Marion is strictly borderline. As far as I know, Big Z only played 3 matches with the Lithuanian National Team, so you can't even use his international 'accolades' to support a Hall of Fame bid. And his NBA career certainly isn't Hall-of-Fame worthy.

[La Frescobaldi]

At least Shaq won rings and FMVPs. Where are Wilt's? It was a Willis Reed that took 2 away from him. Too bad Wilt wasn't that much stronger than Reed, Reed held Wilt in check.

The Captain!!!

http://cdn.s3.webcontentor.com/OFFICE/LAM01/files/images/130116053620_1940truck.jpg

Dude was a freaking delivery truck coming down the lane.

If he had modern training most of his injuries wouldn't even have happened. Him and Frazier man, what a team too, surrounded by 3 other Hall of Famers on their starting squad and even guys coming off the bench.

Man f@ck the Knicks for what they did to Frazier though

[kennethgriffin]

Shawn Marion is strictly borderline. As far as I know, Big Z only played 3 matches with the Lithuanian National Team, so you can't even use his international 'accolades' to support a Hall of Fame bid. And his NBA career certainly isn't Hall-of-Fame worthy.


Every player i mentioned is making the hall of fame...



Everyone makes the basketball hall of fame eventually

[VIP2000]

Every player i mentioned is making the hall of fame...



Everyone makes the basketball hall of fame eventually

The only reason Jamison would even be considered for the Hall of Fame is because he has 20,000 career points. Otherwise, he was a durable "empty stats" kind of guy. If you put him in the Hall, you might as well put in Reggie Theus and Eddie Johnson.

And nothing about Big Z's career warrants Hall of Fame discussion.

[La Frescobaldi]

The only reason Jamison would even be considered for the Hall of Fame is because he has 20,000 career points. Otherwise, he was a durable "empty stats" kind of guy. If you put him in the Hall, you might as well put in Reggie Theus and Eddie Johnson.

And nothing about Big Z's career warrants Hall of Fame discussion.

absolutely

[Orlando Magic]

Kobe's sorry more help needing ass has played with Dwight, Pau, Shaq, Nash, Payton, Malone, and Rodman. Horry and World Peace should count too but they ain't making it.

[dhsilv]

Shawn Marion is strictly borderline. As far as I know, Big Z only played 3 matches with the Lithuanian National Team, so you can't even use his international 'accolades' to support a Hall of Fame bid. And his NBA career certainly isn't Hall-of-Fame worthy.

IMO Marion gets greatly under valued. He allowed coaches to turn him into much more of a role player than he had to and he did it for the good of the team.

4 time all star
2 time all nba

40th all time in rebounds
19th all time in steals
53rd in blocks
75th all time in points
49th games played
32nd minutes played

42nd winshare
28th VORP

Hall of Fame probability Hall of Fame Probability 0.756

Given someone of the rather average people who have made the hall, I think that is a hell of a resume to be left out.

[AirFederer]

To me Wilt is the ultimate winner, GOAT player, mentality, teammate etc.:cheers:

But not everyone agrees....

:eek: :eek:

LAZERUSS=jlauber (by own omission)

Originally Posted by jlauber

[G0ATbe]

LeBald so far...

Shaq
Bosh
Wade
Irving
Love
Ben Wallace
Ray Allen
Shawn Marion

I think he'll surpass Wilt in that regard

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebron:

Kevin Love
Kyrie Irving
Shawn Marion
Chris Bosh
Ray Allen
Dwyane Wade
zydrunas ilgauskas
antawn jamison
shaquille o'neal
ben wallace



same number of HOF teammates: 10

same finals record: 2 for 6




go figure

This is probably THE most idiotic argument people use, naming players as "HOF" help when they either played one season together or were WAY past their prime. Listing Shaq, Marion, & Big Ben is simply a jackass move. And it remains to be seen if Jamison and Big Z get voted in. I guarantee if someone listed Malone, Payton, Howard & Nash for Kobe you'd come up with excuses why they shouldn't count.

[dankok8]

KC Jones and Frank Ramsey would never be HOFers if they didn't play with Russell. And they shouldn't be anyways. Look at their resumes... not a single all-star appearance. Wayne Embry and Satch Sanders made it as contributors. If you're gonna count those guys may as well count Tom Meschery, Al Attles, and Luke Jackson as HOF as well.

So Lovellette 2 years, Howell 4 years, Sharman 2 years, Cousy 4 years, Havlicek 7 years, Heinsohn 6 years, Sam Jones 8 years... 33 combined seasons from 1960-1969.

As can be seen in the OP, Wilt played with HOFers for a combined 28 seasons from 1960-1969.


Russell has a 33-28 edge. Russell easily had a better team in 1964 and a smaller though noticeable edge in 1960, 1962, and 1965. In 1966 it was even and from 1967-1969 it was Wilt who had the more talented rosters on paper.

There is some context with these numbers like Baylor missing games etc. but Russell didn't play with all these guys in their primes either. Lovellette came in as a shell, Cousy and Hondo his two best teammates overlapped for only one year (last one for Cousy, first one for Hondo) etc.

LAZERUSS only tells you one half of the story.

Bottom line is Russell had better casts looking at the overall picture but not by a big margin.

[LAZERUSS]

KC Jones and Frank Ramsey would never be HOFers if they didn't play with Russell. And they shouldn't be anyways. Look at their resumes... not a single all-star appearance. Wayne Embry and Satch Sanders made it as contributors. If you're gonna count those guys may as well count Tom Meschery, Al Attles, and Luke Jackson as HOF as well.

So Lovellette 2 years, Howell 4 years, Sharman 2 years, Cousy 4 years, Havlicek 7 years, Heinsohn 6 years, Sam Jones 8 years... 33 combined seasons from 1960-1969.

As can be seen in the OP, Wilt played with HOFers for a combined 28 seasons from 1960-1969.


Russell has a 33-28 edge. Russell easily had a better team in 1964 and a smaller though noticeable edge in 1960, 1962, and 1965. In 1966 it was even and from 1967-1969 it was Wilt who had the more talented rosters on paper.

There is some context with these numbers like Baylor missing games etc. but Russell didn't play with all these guys in their primes either. Lovellette came in as a shell, Cousy and Hondo his two best teammates overlapped for only one year (last one for Cousy, first one for Hondo) etc.

LAZERUSS only tells you one half of the story.

Bottom line is Russell had better casts looking at the overall picture but not by a big margin.

First of all, no KC Jones and his 8 seasons? Ok, if you are going to remove him, and he was regarded as one of the best defensive guards of his era (as was Sanders at the F position), then let's remove Guy Rodgers, who was just elected recently, and some 45 years after his retirement.

Rodgers was not only the worst shooter of his era, he STILL shot the ball. He COST his teams games. And without Wilt was a big loser.

And are you counting Thurmond????

Look, Russell had FAR greater supporting casts EVERY year from '60-65. BTW, you failed to mention '63? How come? Because Wilt had ZERO surrounding HOFers (and talent), while Russell had EIGHT other HOFers? Do you honestly believe that had those swapped rosters in '63, that Wilt wouldn't have won a ring? Geezus.

Even in '66, Russell had a much better supporting cast, but their key players missed a TON of games, and that is why they finished one game behind Philly. And Russell's supporting cast just annihilated Wilt's in that years EDF's (my god, Wilt shot .509 from the field...and his teammates collectively shot... .352!)

I will say that Wilt had EQUAL rosters in '67 and '68. And it showed in '67, when he and his Sixers just annihilated Russell and his Celtics. As for '68, YOU already KNOW what happened in that post-season. Wilt and his Sixers were just DECIMATED by injuries, and they STILL only lost a game seven by four points. A HEALTHY Sixer squad would have repeated their '67 blowout.

As for '69...after West and Wilt...the rest of the Laker roster was badly outmatched. And while Baylor enjoyed regular season success, he was now just a shell, and it showed up in the ENTIRE post-season, and he was even worse in the Finals. Player-for-player, after Wilt and West, Boston was better. Hell, in game seven, Em Bryant, for cryingoutloud, had a 20 point game.

And the bottom line, it was not only BAYLOR that cost that team a title, but even moreso, it was their incompetent COACH, who personally blew game four having Egan handle the ball at the end of the game. Had West been been handling it, it would have been a 4-1 series romp.

[32jazz]

That's easily arguable at the very least and Wilt would have ONE ring without West.

'69 finals
West - 37.9 ppg
Wilt - 11.7 ppg

West FMVP, Lakers lose in 7..

And? They lost with Wilt attempting to play the Russell Role .

Why not post the 1972 NBA Finals stats:

Chamberlain's - 19 pts on 60% / 23 rbs/ 3 ast & unfortunately no Blocks stats


West- 19 pts (32% )/4 rbs/ 8 assists & unfortunately no TO stats.


32% shooting in the Finals by West & he sulked after winning( would be called selfish today)


Lakers win 1970 also if not for West being completely dragged & rattled by Walt Frazier who in game 7 put up 36/ 19 assists / 7 steals.

[LAZERUSS]

And? They lost with Wilt attempting to play the Russell Role .

Why not post the 1972 NBA Finals stats:

Chamberlain's - 19 pts on 60% / 23 rbs/ 3 ast & unfortunately no Blocks stats


West- 19 pts (32% )/4 rbs/ 8 assists & unfortunately no TO stats.


32% shooting in the Finals by Westb & he sulked after winning( would be called selfish today)


Lakers win 1970 also if not for West being completely dragged & rattled by Walt Frazier who in game 7 put up 36/ 19 assists / 7 steals.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Deuce Bigalow]

And? They lost with Wilt attempting to play the Russell Role .

Why not post the 1972 NBA Finals stats:

Chamberlain's - 19 pts on 60% / 23 rbs/ 3 ast & unfortunately no Blocks stats


West- 19 pts (32% )/4 rbs/ 8 assists & unfortunately no TO stats.


32% shooting in the Finals by West & he sulked after winning( would be called selfish today)


Lakers win 1970 also if not for West being completely dragged & rattled by Walt Frazier who in game 7 put up 36/ 19 assists / 7 steals.
Who won FMVP in that 1970 Series? Wilt's man Willis Reed. During the first 4 games of the series before he was injured:

37/16/5 on 16-30
29/15/5 on 12-29
38/17/3 on 17-30
23/12/2 on 10-23

[dankok8]

First of all, no KC Jones and his 8 seasons? Ok, if you are going to remove him, and he was regarded as one of the best defensive guards of his era (as was Sanders at the F position), then let's remove Guy Rodgers, who was just elected recently, and some 45 years after his retirement.

Rodgers was not only the worst shooter of his era, he STILL shot the ball. He COST his teams games. And without Wilt was a big loser.


Are you really comparing KC Jones to Guy Rodgers?

Both were really good defensive guards (KC was even better...) but Rodgers is a guy who made four All-Star teams, led the league in assists twice, and is 17th on the All-Time assists list. Guy Rodgers at his peak was a 18/11 player who played good defense. KC Jones was never even an all-star and in his peak season he was averaging like 9/5.

They are not even close to the same caliber of player.

[La Frescobaldi]

Are you really comparing KC Jones to Guy Rodgers?

Both were really good defensive guards (KC was even better...) but Rodgers is a guy who made four All-Star teams, led the league in assists twice, and is 17th on the All-Time assists list. Guy Rodgers at his peak was a 18/11 player who played good defense. KC Jones was never even an all-star and in his peak season he was averaging like 9/5.

They are not even close to the same caliber of player.


well known in those days that each team got an all-star. up to about '69 when the league expanded again.
Celtics going to have kc jones represent them when there were 7 other guys who were top 3 or 4 in the league on their same team?

[L.Kizzle]

'60 - Paul Arizen, Tom Gola, Guy Rodgers
'61 - Paul Arizen, Tom Gola, Guy Rodgers
'62 - Paul Arizen, Tom Gola, Guy Rodgers
'63 - Tom Gola, Guy Rodgers
'64 - Nate Thurmond, Guy Rodgers
'65 - Nate Thurmond, Hal Greer, Chet Walker, Guy Rodgers
'66 - Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham, Chet Walker
'67 - Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham, Chet Walker
'68 - Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham, Chet Walker
'69 - Jerry West, Elgin Baylor
'70 - Jerry West, Elgin Baylor
'71 - Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Gail Goodrich
'72 - Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Gail Goodrich
'73 - Jerry West, Gail Goodrich

Has any player played with more?
The only ones in their primes/peak was Guy Rodgers, Hal Greer and Gail Goodrich. Thurman, Cunningham and Walker were maybe just entering their primes and Jerry West was possibly just leaving his. Baylor and Arizin were shells.

[feyki]

Wilt had four garbage seasons in between 60-63 . For what ? Scoring .. Like 2003-2007 Kobe .

That hurts his career .

[32jazz]

Who won FMVP in that 1970 Series? Wilt's man Willis Reed. During the first 4 games of the series before he was injured:

37/16/5 on 16-30
29/15/5 on 12-29
38/17/3 on 17-30
23/12/2 on 10-23

You do know the series went 7 games( not 4) & Frazier not getting the MVP is an absolute joke?

What Frazier did to an absolutely rattled West was............36/ 19/7


Wilt Chamberlain ruptured the tendon in his knee & tore ligaments & was supposed to be out 10-12 months with the barbaric surgeries of 1969.

Wilt missed 70 games that season ,but miraculously ( or foolishly) returned in 4 months for the playoffs & averaged 22pts / 22 rebs on 54% shooting.:bowdown:


We're suppose to marvel at Reed who had a pulled hamstring while Wilt returned in 4 months from a season ending surgery / blown out knee that was supposed to sideline him for 1 year.


Wilt did his job & even somehow went off for 45/27 in game 6 to tie the series so West could wet himself in game 7 against Frazier.

[Stringer Bell]

That's pretty minuscule nitpicking man. He shot 14/29 from the field and 14/18 from the line while posting a 42/13/12 triple double in Game 7 of the Finals. You're basically demanding perfection if that isn't good enough for you

West had a great series even while battling injuries.

West and Chamberlain both had injuries during the 1969 series. West also had screwed up hands and fingers in the 1970 finals, he just didn't make excuses and throw teammates under the bus like Wilt.

West: It doesn't matter if I was hurt, the bottom line was I didn't get the job done, we lost (even when he managed to score 28 in game 7 and average 31 and 7 for the series)

Wilt: oh I was hurt, the coach messed up, West got his ass kicked by Frazier like always.

[Psileas]

West had a great series even while battling injuries.

West and Chamberlain both had injuries during the 1969 series. West also had screwed up hands and fingers in the 1970 finals, he just didn't make excuses and throw teammates under the bus like Wilt.

West: It doesn't matter if I was hurt, the bottom line was I didn't get the job done, we lost (even when he managed to score 28 in game 7 and average 31 and 7 for the series)

Wilt: oh I was hurt, the coach messed up, West got his ass kicked by Frazier like always.

West wasn't accused of losing the way Wilt was and still is. Wilt wasn't ever expected to lose, regardless of teammates, regardless of circumstances, a testament of how dominant he was and how high he had raised the bar of expectations because of this dominance. This is why so many people still only pay attention to the ring count and to his playoff scoring dipping, regardless of a zillion things having affected these figures. Wilt isn't expected to only win 2, regardless of teammates and injuries and coaching blunders and isn't expected to score less in the playoffs, regardless of having to face 2 of the 4-5 GOAT individual defenders in an absurdly high percentage of his playoff games/rounds and regardless of the fact that he had played in twice as many playoff games during his "low" scoring portion of his career compared to before. This hasn't been the case with any other player and hadn't ever been the case for West, who was dominant in his own right, but people didn't realistically expect from him to be able to beat the Celtics just because "he's Jerry West".

[MiseryCityTexas]

Clyde Lovellette was actually a solid NBA player. There's NBA footage of him on Youtube, and it clearly shows that he was a solid player.

[sd3035]

Wilt just didn't have the clutch gene

[MiseryCityTexas]

Guy Rodgers was like a 60s version of Rajon Rondo. Great passer, terrible shooter.

[Horatio33]

Wilt played with Jerry West, who was better than any teammate Russell ever had.

Case closed.

[jongib369]

Clyde Lovellette was actually a solid NBA player. There's NBA footage of him on Youtube, and it clearly shows that he was a solid player.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAuQLyeB9mM

Highlight I made a few years ago, half assed it but it's alright

NCAA #MarchMoments: Kansas vs. Oklahoma State (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPOUCK3DTfA)