Better to lose as a star or win in an ensemble? A Damon Stoudamire discussion.

[Kblaze8855]

My snowed in boredom run of videos continues....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIF7HRZtgz8


Damon in Toronto was one of the most exciting young players in the league. Highlights nightly....rising fame. They feared he might leave...traded him to the Blazers. Deep team as we all remember.....went from a 20/8 or so player to what? 12-13 a game lost in the shuffle? And never even won. Had some runs...should have won in 2000....but didnt.

Simple question....

You rather be the man for 10 years doing numbers and making DVDs full of highlights or be one of 9 good players on a team nobody stands out on....that wins a lot more?

Damon should have been a somebody....till like 2008. But he was largely forgotten by 2002. All the hype was gone. I think he had a random 54 point night out of nowhere a while back. He still had game...but nobody was gonna hand him a franchise like the Raptors did.

Maybe he just becomes the 90s version of the current Isiah Thomas...few highlights and lead an ok team....not be remembered. But I dont think so. I think given them...he would have become at least a now and then all star.

But never on Portland. Too many pieces for one to shine.

[red1]

I used to love Damon man. Was such a fun player to watch and I truly had high expectations for him. Completely lost track of him because the games weren't broadcast here and to this day it is still unbelievable to me that he didn't accomplish shit in the league.

To answer your question I would much prefer to be an elite or star player on a team that doesn't win it all as opposed to a role player on a good or great team. Far more rewarding career and the journey might have more lows but the upside would be much higher.

What would feel more satisfying to the average prospect coming up in the league: making an all-star game or winning a championship that you played a small part in. Being recognized as being among the best in the league and the best at your craft would certainly be more rewarding for me.

[Legends66NBA7]

The problem was on both ends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wICVKl9TeM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6vfSmgFMP8


Let's be honest, till Masai got to Toronto, there has not been a sense of sustaining a proper way to build a basketball team between the management and player (owners can do whatever they want), which results into trust issues with their stars for years. From Damon, to Vince, to Bosh... It was a losing culture and at this point are the worst on-court production franchise. They are trying to shed that image.

Damon staying might rose his star and he might have been more known now, but it was still a team in Canada. Lowry and DeRozan are playing better basketball currently than Damon ever did and I don't see their star any brighter. Yes, Kyle did make the all-star team twice as a starter but that was more thanks to celebrity tie-in's, not because of how he plays.

Also, I would prefer being the star too because I would rather go out on terms helping the team as best as possible. But it would also kill me to know I would never win anything.

[Kblaze8855]

Correct me if im wrong but didnt they at one point have Damon, Tmac, Camby, Doug Christie, and Chauncey Billups?

Probably when Isiah Thomas was still running the team. He always knew talent.

[Lakers Fan]

No way Stoudemire would have been a star till 2008. He was a headcase. Just another example of great talent ruined by laziness and stupidity. Once the fame and money overcame him, he lost his hunger.

[Kblaze8855]

Not a star as in....some Steph Curry great player way. But a well known guy? I dont know. In 05 he was already years into borderline role player status but when asked to start and produce again he did it. He put up 21 a game for 2 months or so. Gave Baron Davis 54. Back to back 30 point games vs the Kings and Baron again. He was still able to put in work. Had he fully developed his game over those years? Who knows? He was never gonna be some all time great...but he could have been one of those guys joined at the hip to a franchise and remembered forever because of it. Not some megastar but someone to talk about.

He became a straight up footnote.

[kennethgriffin]

the 2004 raptors coulda been

PG - Damon Stoudamire
SG - Vince Carter
SF - Tracy Mcgrady
PF - Chris Bosh
C - Marcus Camby

[Kblaze8855]

The 99 Raptors could realistically have had Damon with Billups as backup....Christie at the 2...Tmac at the 3..drafted Dirk...and put him next to Camby.

Give it 3 years or so? Trouble.

[Legends66NBA7]

Correct me if im wrong but didnt they at one point have Damon, Tmac, Camby, Doug Christie, and Chauncey Billups?

Probably when Isiah Thomas was still running the team. He always knew talent.

Yeah around 97 they had all those guys.

Christie - He grew on the Raptors, became a solid player. Would thrive today for the league featuring so many 3&D players.

T-Mac - Great talent, his then coach Darryl Walker (the worst coach in Raptors history) who told once during a game "he wasn't going to make it"... as in far in the league. T-Mac also said he didn't like the weather in Toronto. Has been known to not have the best intangibles.

Camby - Nice talent, but poor work ethic and intangibles. Isiah once caught him snacking on candy bars when he supposed to be doing workouts. Got traded for Charles Oakley who would help forge a tough minded image for the early 00's Raptor teams and definitely helped Vince Carter as a player with his leadership.

Billups - Didn't become the player he would be in his prime until he got to Minny and with KG's guidance. He was getting bounced around early much in his career.

[kennethgriffin]

Yeah around 97 they had all those guys.

Christie - He grew on the Raptors, became a solid player. Would thrive today for the league featuring so many 3&D players.

T-Mac - Great talent, his then coach Darryl Walker (the worst coach in Raptors history) who told once during a game "he wasn't going to make it"... as in far in the league. T-Mac also said he didn't like the weather in Toronto. Has been known to not have the best intangibles.

Camby - Nice talent, but poor work ethic and intangibles. Isiah once caught him snacking on candy bars when he supposed to be doing workouts. Got traded for Charles Oakley who would help forge a tough minded image for the early 00's Raptor teams and definitely helped Vince Carter as a player with his leadership.

Billups - Didn't become the player he would be in his prime until he got to Minny and with KG's guidance. He was getting bounced around early much in his career.



its nearly just as cold as toronto in new york and detroit and mcgrady chose to play there

tmac and other idiot americans like him need to shut the **** up about the weather in canada... its not like theyre out in alberta or some shit. they have a cold front in ontario that blocks most of the harsh conditions

[VengefulAngel]

Yeah around 97 they had all those guys.

Christie - He grew on the Raptors, became a solid player. Would thrive today for the league featuring so many 3&D players.

T-Mac - Great talent, his then coach Darryl Walker (the worst coach in Raptors history) who told once during a game "he wasn't going to make it"... as in far in the league. T-Mac also said he didn't like the weather in Toronto. Has been known to not have the best intangibles.

Camby - Nice talent, but poor work ethic and intangibles. Isiah once caught him snacking on candy bars when he supposed to be doing workouts. Got traded for Charles Oakley who would help forge a tough minded image for the early 00's Raptor teams and definitely helped Vince Carter as a player with his leadership.

Billups - Didn't become the player he would be in his prime until he got to Minny and with KG's guidance. He was getting bounced around early much in his career.

Great Post. Absolutely spot on.

[Kblaze8855]

I wasnt saying they were all what they would become. Just that they were apparently heading the right direction. Whatever one can say about Isiah....it isnt that he doesnt know talent in young players. He might not put it together the best....but he sees it.

[wang4three]

I don't know, but I think of Damon the same way I think of Jameer Nelson. Maybe Damon was a little bit better at the PG aspects of the game, but I felt their impact was roughly the same.

[Kblaze8855]

Maybe its the Bulls fan in me but I cant imagine Jameer Nelson going off like this to beat our 72 win team:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNUVt4Wjfxw


Or for that matter have this game in defeat:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMHyva6KmS4



Jameer had big nights no doubt. But id say he was less explosive. Maybe not so much in final totals...but in quickly changing the course of a game?

Jameer always felt like a go with the flow guy....not a decide the flow guy. Damon had it in him to set the tone id say.