Where do people rank Gordon Hayward amongst current small forwards?

[masonanddixon]

Top 3? Top 5 this season?

The dude is beasting this year. I think he's better than Paul George.

[plowking]

I'd love to hear how you came to that conclusion. :oldlol:

[stalkerforlife]

Way too inconsistent and timid.

Needs to stay aggressive.

Top 8.

[PsychoBe]

not even the most impactful player on his own team

[masonanddixon]

I'd love to hear how you came to that conclusion. :oldlol:

Averaging 19,4, and 5 with excellent defense and he's murdering Miami today.

[masonanddixon]

Way too inconsistent and timid.

Needs to stay aggressive.

Top 8.

Who are the other seven, man?

[stalkerforlife]

Who are the other seven, man?

I don't know. :lol

Definitely top 5.

He just pisses me off with his passiveness because I know he's so capable of being great.

[masonanddixon]

I don't know. :lol

Definitely top 5.

He just pisses me off with his passiveness because I know he's so capable of being great.

Yeah I think he's a natural second option but he doesn't play with any first options in Utah so he's thrust into that role.

[plowking]

Averaging 19,4, and 5 with excellent defense and he's murdering Miami today.

So how is that better than the 24/8/4 Paul George is averaging?

And he isn't putting up 4 assists, it is 3. In what world do you round 3.2 to 4?
He is putting up 19/5/3...

[masonanddixon]

So how is that better than the 24/8/4 Paul George is averaging?

And he isn't putting up 4 assists, it is 3. In what world do you round 3.2 to 4?
He is putting up 19/5/3...

Paul George is like the Iverson of SFs, gaudy numbers due to a function of his having the ball in his hands so much; dude is inefficient as hell.

[plowking]

Paul George is like the Iverson of SFs, gaudy numbers due to a function of his having the ball in his hands so much; dude is inefficient as hell.

Well he shoots a better TS% than Hayward does... And his team is actually in the playoffs, and a winning team. He is also actually the best player on his team...

So betters stats, more wins, more efficient, and the best player on his team.

No contest.

Hayward is somewhere like 15th in terms of SF's.

[masonanddixon]

Well he shoots a better TS% than Hayward does... And his team is actually in the playoffs, and a winning team. He is also actually the best player on his team...

So betters stats, more wins, more efficient, and the best player on his team.

No contest.

Hayward is somewhere like 15th in terms of SF's.

Utah is in the 8th place, man.

Who is better than Hayward on Utah? I know some people like Gobert but he's doesn't have close to the impact of Gordon on that squad.

[WayOfWade]

Utah is in the 8th place, man.

Who is better than Hayward on Utah? I know some people like Gobert but he's doesn't have close to the impact of Gordon on that squad.
I can tell you didn't watch the Jazz last season, Gobert has more effect than anyone. Hayward by seasons end though will be a top 5 SF, book it

[FKAri]

Well he shoots a better TS% than Hayward does... And his team is actually in the playoffs, and a winning team. He is also actually the best player on his team...

So betters stats, more wins, more efficient, and the best player on his team.

No contest.

Hayward is somewhere like 15th in terms of SF's.

wtf no way. There is no analyst on the planet who would put Hayward outside the top 10. He's either top 5 or just outside it. He's in the Carmelo Anthony tier this season.

[RRR3]

He's nowhere near Paul George, that's an absurd comment. :oldlol:


He's definitely behind KD, LBJ, Kawhi, PG, and Melo. I guess he's 6th?

[masonanddixon]

I can tell you didn't watch the Jazz last season, Gobert has more effect than anyone. Hayward by seasons end though will be a top 5 SF, book it

I like Rudy but he doesn't give you anything on offense besides put backs and dunks...

[plowking]

Utah is in the 8th place, man.

Who is better than Hayward on Utah? I know some people like Gobert but he's doesn't have close to the impact of Gordon on that squad.

Favors is their best player.

Seriously, how did you even write that he is a possible top 3... Go ahead and think it through...

Durant, Lebron, Kawhi... No chance.
Paul George, Melo, Jimmy Butler, Derozan... all better.
Draymond, etc.

Then you have guys like Danilo, Wiggins, Giannis, etc who are all probably better too.

[plowking]

wtf no way. There is no analyst on the planet who would put Hayward outside the top 10. He's either top 5 or just outside it. He's in the Carmelo Anthony tier this season.

He is not close to Melo. :oldlol:

I did a list. He is probably 9th or 10th.

[1987_Lakers]

I think he's better than Paul George.
:oldlol:

[stalkerforlife]

Favors is their best player.

Seriously, how did you even write that he is a possible top 3... Go ahead and think it through...

Durant, Lebron, Kawhi... No chance.
Paul George, Melo, Jimmy Butler, Derozan... all better.
Draymond, etc.

Then you have guys like Danilo, Wiggins, Giannis, etc who are all probably better too.

You don't even know what positions players play, dude. :lol

[masonanddixon]

You don't even know what positions players play, dude. :lol

He's hilarious man. I don't think he has an even basic understanding of the game.

[plowking]

You don't even know what positions players play, dude. :lol

All those guys aside from Butler and Derozan are strict SFs this season.

[plowking]

He's hilarious man. I don't think he has an even basic understanding of the game.

You claim to be a doctor, yet you don't even know how to structure your sentences. :oldlol:

[stalkerforlife]

All those guys aside from Butler and Derozan are strict SFs this season.

Draymond? Wiggins?

[stalkerforlife]

You claim to be a doctor, yet you don't even know how to structure your sentences. :oldlol:

Doctors don't care about sentence structure; that's for people pretending to be smart.

[RRR3]

Draymond is a PF and Wiggins is trash. wtf man

[plowking]

Draymond? Wiggins?

Draymond is a SF. Just because they play small ball doesn't mean much of anything. Same with Wiggins. He drifts from position to position, but he is a SF.

They are both built like SFs, and generally throughout the flow of the game end up there.

By your logic, Hayward was a SG based on today.

[FKAri]

He is not close to Melo. :oldlol:

I did a list. He is probably 9th or 10th.

I had him above Melo like 3 weeks ago. Melo had a shit start to the season. He's picked it up (a lot) since then. So I'd put Hayward pretty much where rrr3 would; right below Melo at 6th.

[plowking]

Draymond is a PF and Wiggins is trash. wtf man

Draymond is a SF masquerading as a PF.

Same way that Bron was a C when the Heat went real small during their title runs.

[plowking]

Doctors don't care about sentence structure; that's for people pretending to be smart.

You put a lot of effort into that.

[masonanddixon]

You claim to be a doctor, yet you don't even know how to structure your sentences. :oldlol:

What do you mean? That sentence is perfectly grammatically correct. Or are you referring to needing a comma before 'man' in that post?

[RRR3]

Regardless, Wiggins is definitely not better than Hayward.

[CakeorDeath]

Doesn't necessarily mean he is a better player, but I would take Hayward on my team over Melo ten times out of ten.

[Legends66NBA7]

Kawhi Leonard
Kevin Durant
Paul George
Carmelo Anthony
LeBron James

Are locked into that Top 5 (no order when I put thise names up FYI).

SF is a top heavy postion in this league. Those are 5 good/elite players then the rest of them are jocking for position.

[RRR3]

Kawhi Leonard
Kevin Durant
Paul George
Carmelo Anthony
LeBron James

Are locked into that Top 5 (no order when I put thise names up FYI).

SF is a top heavy postion in this league. Those are 5 good/elite players then the rest of them are jocking for position.
nice avatar dude

[Legends66NBA7]

nice avatar dude

:cheers:

So much potential for a great character.

[CakeorDeath]

Kawhi Leonard
Kevin Durant
Paul George
Carmelo Anthony
LeBron James

Are locked into that Top 5 (no order when I put thise names up FYI).

SF is a top heavy postion in this league. Those are 5 good/elite players then the rest of them are jocking for position.

Why is Melo elite and Hayward is in the pack that is a tier below? Statistically, they are shockingly similar this season, and Hayward is 6 years younger.

[plowking]

Why is Melo elite and Hayward is in the pack that is a tier below? Statistically, they are shockingly similar this season, and Hayward is 6 years younger.

In what way is 22/8/4 similar to 19/5/3?

Not to mention Melo's team was expected to be garbage once again, but they are fighting for the playoffs in a tougher conference, and have a better record than Utah.

EDIT: I'm not even entirely sure of the answer, but has Hayward ever actually been on a winning team?

[Legends66NBA7]

Why is Melo elite and Hayward is in the pack that is a tier below? Statistically, they are shockingly similar this season, and Hayward is 6 years younger.

I wouldn't say he's elite anymore. More "good".

He still draws more attention from opposing defenses than Hayward does and to his credit his defense has been very good too. He's also the ehst player on his team while Hayward has the better team around him and isn't best player on his.

Kinda an apples and oranges debate.

[Legends66NBA7]

In what way is 22/8/4 similar to 19/5/3?

Not to mention Melo's team was expected to be garbage once again, but they are fighting for the playoffs in a tougher conference, and have a better record than Utah.

EDIT: I'm not even entirely sure of the answer, but has Hayward ever actually been on a winning team?

11-12 and 12-13.

Records weren't very great. Barely made the playoffs in 12 and missed it in 13 at the end of the year, but would have made it in the East. However, he wasn't the main reason for them having that success.

[Mike smith]

Top small forwards in nba

1: durant
2:Lebron
3:Leonard
4: melo
5:George
6: Hayward
7:Wiggins
8: galo

[CakeorDeath]

In what way is 22/8/4 similar to 19/5/3?

When you look at the actual numbers, and you look at more than just ppg/rpg/apg

The actual numbers are:

Melo: 21.6/7.7/3.7 with 0.9 spg, 0.6 bpg and 2.5 topg. 17.8 FGA shooting .428, with .333 from 3 pt line and .832 ft% on 5.8 ft attempts per game

Hayward: 18.7/5.1/3.2 with 1.2 spg, 0.2 bpg and 2.5 topg. 14.2 FGA shooting .424 with .390 from 3 pt line and .827 ft% on 5.8 ft attempt per game.

Thus, they are a wash on defensive statistics, turnovers, FG%, FT%, and ft attempts. Yes, Melo score 3 points per game more, but attempts 3.5 more FGs a game to get it. If they shoot the same percentage, the same ft percentage, and the same number of free throws, one player scoring more than the other boils down pretty simply to FGA. Melo shoots a bit more, and therefore scores a bit more.

So basically, your argument is that 2.5 extra rebounds and 0.5 extra assists makes Melo an elite small forward and Hayward a tier below? You're either giving Melo too much superstar treatment, or Hayward not enough.



Not to mention Melo's team was expected to be garbage once again, but they are fighting for the playoffs in a tougher conference, and have a better record than Utah.

Preseason expectations mean dick. Knicks are at 18-20 and the Jazz are at 16-20. They have a better win percentage because they have played two more games. Jazz's next two games are against the Lakers and Portland, so chances are good that they match the Knicks' 18-20 mark.

Tougher conference? Scheduling differences makes that very difficult to quantify, but what is indisputable is that the top 6 teams in the league record-wise are GS, SA, OKC, LAC, CLE, and CHI. Jazz have played those teams 9 times so far. Knicks have played them 8 times (3 of those 8 have been against CLE). Jazz have yet to play Chicago; Knicks haven't played GS or LAC. As previously stated, the teams have basically the same record. So I don't really buy your argument here.

Plus, Jazz have had horrible luck with injuries. Exum out for the whole year. Gobert out for a month. Favors 3 weeks and counting. Burks out at least a month. Hood now out.


EDIT: I'm not even entirely sure of the answer, but has Hayward ever actually been on a winning team?

Jazz 11-12 team ended at 36-30 and lost in the first round. 12-13 Jazz team went 43-39.

[CakeorDeath]

I wouldn't say he's elite anymore. More "good".

He still draws more attention from opposing defenses than Hayward does and to his credit his defense has been very good too. He's also the ehst player on his team while Hayward has the better team around him and isn't best player on his.

Kinda an apples and oranges debate.

Melo has never been elite. Elite players don't go 2-8 on getting out of the first round. Elite players don't have the worst playoff record in NBA history (minimum 50 games).

Empty stats on many teams that should have performed better. His "leadership" and "defense" are big reasons why they didn't.

When has a Melo team ever overachieved?

[WayOfWade]

Dang, CakeOrDeath throwing logic out there, something many of these posters aren't used to.
However I would say that a couple past versions of Melo can be considered elite, mainly his 12'-13' campaign, however he as underachieved almost all his career, only really meeting expectations in 09', which resulted in a loss to the eventual champ Lakers.
It's hard to argue Hayward over Melo (unless your CakeOrDeath), but I bet most people by seasons end will be agreeing rather than disagreeing.

[Legends66NBA7]

Melo has never been elite. Elite players don't go 2-8 on getting out of the first round. Elite players don't have the worst playoff record in NBA history (minimum 50 games).

Empty stats on many teams that should have performed better. His "leadership" and "defense" are big reasons why they didn't.

When has a Melo team ever overachieved?

Melo's teams were usually not that talented. The one time he did get great support was the 09 Nuggets.

13 Knicks were an overachiever.

And if Melo was never elite, Hayward never will be. And why would someone who's got a worse track record be taken 10 times out of 10 ?

[buddha]

Top 3? Top 5 this season?

The dude is beasting this year. I think he's better than Paul George.

better than PG? lmao did you see the 2014 team usa scrimmage? Hayward and Parsons looked like college kids compared to PG, KD, Bran and Kawhi.

[90sgoat]

Hayward could easily put up better stats. He plays within a strict system with two great rebounders, should he outmuscle Favors and Gobert for defensive rebounds like Lebron does with his teammates?

Put Hayward instead of George on Pacers and you honestly don't think he easily scores 22-24ppg?

[iamgine]

Has Hayward improved at all this season? I heard he put on more weight and muscles in the off season but it seems that he's not as good as last season.

[90sgoat]

Has Hayward improved at all this season? I heard he put on more weight and muscles in the off season but it seems that he's not as good as last season.

His problem is he doesn't demand the ball enough. He essentially playes good fundamental college basketball when he is actually quite good enough to be the primary playmaker through his excellent driving ability.

I don't know if it is because of the coach decision or lack of confidence, but that's the reason, he just doesn't take enough shots.

[Nick Young]

His problem is he doesn't demand the ball enough. He essentially playes good fundamental college basketball when he is actually quite good enough to be the primary playmaker through his excellent driving ability.

I don't know if it is because of the coach decision or lack of confidence, but that's the reason, he just doesn't take enough shots.
He just isn't a leader. Some players are Stephen Jacksons. Some players are Luol Dengs.

[BuffaloBill]

Favors is their best player.

Seriously, how did you even write that he is a possible top 3... Go ahead and think it through...

Durant, Lebron, Kawhi... No chance.
Paul George, Melo, Jimmy Butler, Derozan... all better.
Draymond, etc.

Then you have guys like Danilo, Wiggins, Giannis, etc who are all probably better too.


:biggums:

[Meticode]

He doesn't crack the top 5. He's somewhere between 6-8 honestly.

[zeerghit]

Top small forwards in nba

1: durant
2:Lebron
3:Leonard
4: melo
5:George
6: Hayward
7:Wiggins
8: galo

wiggins > galo? pure bulllshit

[Kawhi]

I'd love to hear how you came to that conclusion. :oldlol:
He's white.

[CakeorDeath]

His problem is he doesn't demand the ball enough. He essentially playes good fundamental college basketball when he is actually quite good enough to be the primary playmaker through his excellent driving ability.

I don't know if it is because of the coach decision or lack of confidence, but that's the reason, he just doesn't take enough shots.

Snyder runs a motion offense. Ball is supposed to keep moving and not stick more than a second or two. A lot of passing on the perimeter and high screens to keep the defense moving/switching. Iso is only allowed once a play breaks down and/or there is limited time left on the shot clock.

[Teanett]

http://www.athletepromotions.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Andre-Iguodala.jpg

if you put this guy on the jazz he would be their best player.

[FKAri]

http://www.athletepromotions.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Andre-Iguodala.jpg

if you put this guy on the jazz he would be their best player.

4th best player at best

[TheBigVeto]

Top 3? Top 5 this season?

The dude is beasting this year. I think he's better than Paul George.

Top 5 but not better than PG.