Would Payton on Jordan earlier have changed the 1996 NBA finals?

[Kvnzhangyay]

A friend brought this up on the trading floor during a short break, would the 1996 NBA finals outcome have been different if Gary Payton had been put on Jordan every game of the series, not just game 4+?

An example of Payton's defense:

Jordan's Games 1-3 (Chicago 3-0): 31ppg on 46% fg

Jordan's Game 4-6 (Seattle 2-1): 23.7ppg, 36.7% fg

[SexSymbol]

After shaking my magic ball and asking this question the answer I got was:
"maybe someday"
Make of that what you will

[Marchesk]

No, at best it would have gone 7. The Bulls still won game 6 easily. They probably relaxed a bit after going up 3-0. And anyway, who would you bet on if there had been a game 7, Jordan or Payton?

[TheImmortal]

Nah, Jordan would've exploited him sooner or later.

[julizaver]

A friend brought this up on the trading floor during a short break, would the 1996 NBA finals outcome have been different if Gary Payton had been put on Jordan every game of the series, not just game 4+?

An example of Payton's defense:

Jordan's Games 1-3 (Chicago 3-0): 31ppg on 46% fg

Jordan's Game 4-6 (Seattle 2-1): 23.7ppg, 36.7% fg

I have high regards to Payton as a player, he was capable of producing both ends of the floor - excelent defender, great playmaker.
The 1996 Finals were the worst MJs had and he was in some uncharacteristic shooting slump after the first 3 games, and although we should give credit to Sonics defense (Payton was not single handily guarded Jordan), I remembered MJ missing some open shots, even layps close to the basket, which is not usual for him.
But Bulls team was better than Sonics and would beat them - they just seems to let of some of the steam after having 3:0 lead.

[diamenz]

how did mj perform against payton in the regular season? i'm too lazy too look it up.

[deja vu]

Game 7 at most. Seattle won't win a game at the United Center.

[plowking]

The reffing in that series was horrible, and completely one sided, but people never bring that up.

[diamenz]

the 96 sonics were a solid f'n team. out of the six, they had the best chance to beat the bulls.

[SouBeachTalents]

the 96 sonics were a solid f'n team. out of the six, they had the best chance to beat the bulls.

I'd give the '93 Suns and either Jazz team the nod for that one

[diamenz]

I'd give the '93 Suns and either Jazz team the nod for that one

the jazz got beat twice though so i can't agree. if mj hadn't had performed so insane in 93, those suns were def a runner up contender behind the sonics imo.

[3ball]

There were a few factors that contributed.
.

[SouBeachTalents]

the jazz got beat twice though so i can't agree. if mj hadn't had performed so insane in 93, those suns were def a runner up contender behind the sonics imo.

Yeah but those Jazz series were very close, the Bulls had had 3 razor thin wins in each series and could have easily either been pushed to a Game 7 or even lost. I'm not saying the Sonics weren't a great team, but the '96 Finals really weren't close, the Bulls went up 3-0 and blew them out 3 times, their easiest Finals besides their first title

[3ball]

Yeah but those Jazz series were very close, the Bulls had had 3 razor thin wins in each series and could have easily either been pushed to a Game 7 or even lost. I'm not saying the Sonics weren't a great team, but the '96 Finals really weren't close, the Bulls went up 3-0 and blew them out 3 times, their easiest Finals besides their first title
all true... the jazz were a super-boss team that is underrated in the annals of history.

they beat everybody, EXCEPT the bulls.

[3ball]

in 1998 alone, the Jazz swept Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers, beat Hakeem's Rockets, and destroyed Popovich/Duncan/Robinson Spurs in 5 games.

this might be the most talent ever defeated to MAKE Finals.

[3ball]

No, at best it would have gone 7. The Bulls still won game 6 easily. They probably relaxed a bit after going up 3-0.

And anyway, who would you bet on if there had been a game 7, Jordan or Payton?


.
MJ hours before Game 4 of 1996 Finals:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfAoaAb3Nc0&t=42m32s

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-22-2015/S-0uOq.gif


This reveals that after getting a 3-0 lead, MJ was "more relaxed than he'd ever been" before the garbage time that ensued the rest of the series.. This explains his lackluster mindset versus the desperate, nothing-to-lose, adrenaline that benefited Payton in those garbage time, stat-padding games.

It's unfortunate the way it worked out - the Bulls blowout of the Sonics early in the series let MJ's guard down, which gave an inherent advantage to the desperate Payton later in garbage time.

I would've loved to see MJ guard Payton from Game 1 - it wouldn't turn a 3-0 blowout into a Sonics' series victory, but at least MJ would've been in the right frame of mind with the entire series to work on Payton.... But instead, MJ was "more relaxed than he'd ever been" and had already tuned out of the series - he was basically like, "wake me up when it's over", while Payton was in desperation mode hoping to save some face.



My opinion on what would've happened


When Payton was assigned to MJ in Game 4, MJ tried to post him up too much - he didn't realize how aggressive Payton would be, or that the refs were going to let the 0-3 underdog get away with EVERYTHING.. He wasted a TON of energy unnecessarily battling Payton on the post.

MJ needed to do the same thing he eventually did to Starks in Game 4 of 1993 ECF - when MJ scored 54 points on Starks in Game 4, he didn't post up even 1 time - ALL of MJ's field goals were off-the-dribble pull-ups or pull-ups out of the triple threat - this was the exact same formula that would allow MJ to destroy the shorter Payton, who would have even more trouble getting to MJ's jumper than Starks... Btw, in that game 4, virtually all of MJ's shots were jumpshots except a single layup in the 3rd quarter.

MJ would've eventually figured out that pull-up jumpshots were easier against Payton than a battle of wills on the post... However, another likely scenario is that MJ simply has more success on the post from Game 1, since he would've been in the correct mindset (0-0 killer mindset, not 3-0 vacation-planning mindset) and the refs usually call a series tight at the beginning of a series to set the tone (rather than letting Payton get away with everything because he's the 0-3 underdog and the series was already over).

[Hey Yo]

Yeah but those Jazz series were very close, the Bulls had had 3 razor thin wins in each series and could have easily either been pushed to a Game 7 or even lost. I'm not saying the Sonics weren't a great team, but the '96 Finals really weren't close, the Bulls went up 3-0 and blew them out 3 times, their easiest Finals besides their first title
Bulls starters, 95 ORB....Rodman with 41

Sonics starters, 56 ORB....Kemp with 26

that's why

[sportjames23]

.
MJ hours before Game 4 of 1996 Finals:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfAoaAb3Nc0&t=42m32s

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-22-2015/S-0uOq.gif


This reveals that after getting a 3-0 lead, MJ was "more relaxed than he'd ever been" before the garbage time that ensued the rest of the series.. This explains his lackluster mindset versus the desperate, nothing-to-lose, adrenaline that benefited Payton in those garbage time, stat-padding games.

It's unfortunate the way it worked out - the Bulls blowout of the Sonics early in the series let MJ's guard down, which gave an inherent advantage to the desperate Payton later in garbage time.

I would've loved to see MJ guard Payton from Game 1 - it wouldn't turn a 3-0 blowout into a Sonics' series victory, but at least MJ would've been in the right frame of mind with the entire series to work on Payton.... But instead, MJ was "more relaxed than he'd ever been" and had already tuned out of the series - he was basically like, "wake me up when it's over", while Payton was in desperation mode hoping to save some face.



My opinion on what would've happened


When Payton was assigned to MJ in Game 4, MJ tried to post him up too much - he didn't realize how aggressive Payton would be, or that the refs were going to let the 0-3 underdog get away with EVERYTHING.. He wasted a TON of energy unnecessarily battling Payton on the post.

MJ needed to do the same thing he eventually did to Starks in Game 4 of 1993 ECF - when MJ scored 54 points on Starks in Game 4, he didn't post up even 1 time - ALL of MJ's field goals were off-the-dribble pull-ups or pull-ups out of the triple threat - this was the exact same formula that would allow MJ to destroy the shorter Payton, who would have even more trouble getting to MJ's jumper than Starks... Btw, in that game 4, virtually all of MJ's shots were jumpshots except a single layup in the 3rd quarter.

MJ would've eventually figured out that pull-up jumpshots were easier against Payton than a battle of wills on the post... However, another likely scenario is that MJ simply has more success on the post from Game 1, since he would've been in the correct mindset (0-0 killer mindset, not 3-0 vacation-planning mindset) and the refs usually call a series tight at the beginning of a series to set the tone (rather than letting Payton get away with everything because he's the 0-3 underdog and the series was already over).


/thread

[GimmeThat]

If George Karl were to put Payton on Jordan, and be committed to that game plan. He would also need to derive/understand you can't put Payton on Jordan every game, every minute in order to keep the game balanced.

The question is that whether or not that is even part of George Karl's coaching style. Instead of being down 0-3 and simply giving the green light for Payton on Jordan as nothing else would have seem to hurt them at that point.

Or you know, do any coaches need to play a certain/particular player just because they are paid a certain amount of salary.


This even brings flash back of the Heat/Mavs series where it was clear the Mavs were prepared and utilized a look that somewhat stated to the Heat. 'how far/deep can you dig'