Why did MJ score 35 1st half points in game 1 of 1992 Finals?

[ClipperRevival]

Clyde Drexler.

People don't realize how much Drexler was considered the closest thing to MJ's rival during the late 80's and early 90's. Drexler was ultra athletic, could score and played an all around game like MJ. They were the two SGs who stood above everyone else. Drexler had led his team to the finals in 1990 and 1992 (and should've made it in 1991 but lost to a vastly inferior Laker team mostly due to Magic). Drexler was also 2nd in the MVP voting in 1992. Coming into the 1992 finals, the talk was about MJ vs Drexler. It was a legit conversation to put Drexler on the level of MJ had his team beaten the Bulls.

And we saw the results. 35 1st half points in game 1, 6 3 pointers and the infamous shoulder shrug. MJ wanted to send a message and I think Drexler got that message. Lol.

[west_tip]

Yup. Its pretty well documented that Jordan went hard at Drexler in the Dream Team intrasquad scrimmages that summer too and was talking a lot of shit. It took Sir Charles and a few other teammates to tell Jordan to ease off and stop rubbing it in.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

What makes this performance even MORE absurd, along with most ATG performances of the past, is when you know the context behind them.

Drexler for example: Prior to the finals this guy beasted throughout the playoffs, averaging ~27 PPG, 8 REB, 7 AST with gamelogs of 36/12/6 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAIouCRio6s) and 42/12/9 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aluf8FquhRA). Just flat-out dominance and MVP level play. He meets up with Jordan, H2H on the biggest stage, and looks second tier. Not only in the finals for a championship and Finals MVP, but for summer practices during the Olympics.

Drexler was unreal. One of the greatest perimeter players ever, a complete player who could do it ALL, and Jordan eviscerated him in every way imaginable. :eek:

[diamenz]

statement games were mike's bread and butter. clyde had his fair share of moments in the 92' finals as well, but not many lol.

[WayOfWade]

He channeled his inner curry

[jstern]

We need a list of all these sending a message games by Jordan. I know there was one a few years ago. More than anything, it's really what makes Jordan the GOAT. True, real killer instant. Though it makes Jordan look horrible, a very good example of that drive is when he made that kid who did the Jordan vs Jordan commercial cry.

[ClipperRevival]

We need a list of all these sending a message games by Jordan. I know there was one a few years ago. More than anything, it's really what makes Jordan the GOAT. True, real killer instant. Though it makes Jordan look horrible, a very good example of that drive is when he made that kid who did the Jordan vs Jordan commercial cry.

Indeed.

It wasn't just games but statement plays. No one comes even CLOSE to MJ's list of statement plays/games. I still remember his swtich of hands play in the 1991 finals and just being awe struck. Like you knew at that moment that his mastery of the game was so much higher than anyone else that he just decided to do a play never before seen in an NBA game.

Yeah, that killer instinct kept him at attack mode at all times and any time he had a chance to devastate the morale of his opponents, he took it without hesitation. Even when he was getting pummeled by the superior Pistons teams for years, he kept attacking the basket and never got discouraged.

[ClipperRevival]

He channeled his inner curry

Blasphemy.

[KiiiiNG]

Because he hit lucky shots that he normally doesn't hit. Had a lucky night. Or half I should say.

[Smoke117]

Because the points from the amount of FG's and FT's he made equalled 35.

[ClipperRevival]

https://m.youtube.com/results?q=michael%20jordan%20top%2050%20all%20time %20plays&sm=1

This is the best youtube vid which best shows MJs top statement plays imo.

[diamenz]

the vandy gundy "con game" lol...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSKH7DO5rHQ

game highlights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woEqLmpF0gQ

[LoneyROY7]

He channeled his inner curry

This.

[Goofsta Knicca]

He channeled his inner curry


http://www.geeksandcleats.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/MJ-RILEY-CRYING.jpg

[Fallen Angel]

Harden had his own message sending game when he singlehandedly beat the Warriors in an amazing fashion.

Everyone knows who the true MVP was.

[3ball]

.
Flawless form


https://media.giphy.com/media/do7qzFeAt0LZK/giphy.gif


Anyone that thinks MJ couldn't have shot 6 threes per game at 40%, if he WANTED to, simply doesn't know the game of basketball

[AirBonner]

He channeled his inner curry
so he let a role player on his team get finals mvp :biggums:

[ClipperRevival]

.
Flawless form


https://media.giphy.com/media/do7qzFeAt0LZK/giphy.gif


Anyone that thinks MJ couldn't have shot 6 threes per game at 40%, if he WANTED to, simply doesn't know the game of basketball

I recently saw an interview where he was asked how he would've guarded himself and he said he would take away the drive and make him a jump shooter because shooting from the outside means you either make or miss the shot but if you drive you can either get off a high pct shot or create for others. MJ almost always preferred to attack if the opportunity was there rather than just settle for the jumper. It just wasn't in his DNA to settle when the opportunity to attack was there. So in that sense, he was so devastating at attacking that he was never destined to be a high volume, outside shooter. But I agree, if he would've seriously worked on his 3 pt game, he would've been a very good 3 pt shooter.

[Smoke117]

Seriously, though...Drexler was overhyped back then because he was also a good athletic sg like Jordan was...but he was never close to as good as he was. In fact, but this time, I thought Scottie was better than him. The Bulls had the two best players in the series...but the Blazers talent went deeper. Drexler was a great all around player...but Pippen was even better. Defensively Pippen was much better by this point and I don't think the 4 more points Drexler was putting up in the regular season OR in the finals (he outscored Pippen by 4 pts in both) was enough to put him over Scottie. Jordan was obviously by far the best player in that finals but here was Pippen and Drexler:

Scottie Pippen: 20.8ppg 8.3rpg 7.7apg 1.5spg 0.7bpg .484%fg .786%ft .561%ts 102drating

Clyde Drexler: 24.8ppg 7.8rpg 5.3apg 1.3spg 1.0bpg .407%fg .893%ft .522%ts 109drating

Yeah they had different roles...but if you just threw Pippen on the Blazers and gave the Bulls Drexler...I'm pretty sure the the Blazers would benefit more than the Bulls. Scottie and Drexler actually have a lot in common as scorers, but Drexler actually ended up in the fast pace offense that would benefit them both. You don't need drating to say that in 1992 Pippen was on a different level defensively...that's just simply stating a fact. As good as Drexler was as an all around player too...Pippen was better. Scottie led this series in apg, was 2nd in rpg, and 3rd in ppg while being one of the 2 or 3 best defensive players in the series.

My point is...that this series was really a top heavy team like the Bulls that had the two best players in the series vs a team that was much more talented overall. It was made out to be Jordan vs Drexler, but that was for drama...Drex wasn't even the 2nd best player in the series.

[ClipperRevival]

.
Flawless form


https://media.giphy.com/media/do7qzFeAt0LZK/giphy.gif


Anyone that thinks MJ couldn't have shot 6 threes per game at 40%, if he WANTED to, simply doesn't know the game of basketball

MJ: "Not today son."

[ClipperRevival]

Seriously, though...Drexler was overhyped back then because he was also a good athletic sg like Jordan was...but he was never close to as good as he was. In fact, but this time, I thought Scottie was better than him. The Bulls had the two best players in the series...but the Blazers talent went deeper. Drexler was a great all around player...but Pippen was even better. Defensively Pippen was much better by this point and I don't think the 4 more points Drexler was putting up in the regular season OR in the finals (he outscored Pippen by 4 pts in both) was enough to put him over Scottie. Jordan was obviously by far the best player in that finals but here was Pippen and Drexler:

Scottie Pippen: 20.8ppg 8.3rpg 7.7apg 1.5spg 0.7bpg .484%fg .786%ft .561%ts 102drating

Clyde Drexler: 24.8ppg 7.8rpg 5.3apg 1.3spg 1.0bpg .407%fg .893%ft .522%ts 109drating

Yeah they had different roles...but if you just threw Pippen on the Blazers and gave the Bulls Drexler...I'm pretty sure the the Blazers would benefit more than the Bulls. Scottie and Drexler actually have a lot in common as scorers, but Drexler actually ended up in the fast pace offense that would benefit them both. You don't need drating to say that in 1992 Pippen was on a different level defensively...that's just simply stating a fact. As good as Drexler was as an all around player too...Pippen was better. Scottie led this series in apg, was 2nd in rpg, and 3rd in ppg while being one of the 2 or 3 best defensive players in the series.

My point is...that this series was really a top heavy team like the Bulls that had the two best players in the series vs a team that was much more talented overall. It was made out to be Jordan vs Drexler, but that was for drama...Drex wasn't even the 2nd best player in the series.

I kind of get what you're saying but Pip's scoring is overrated by some time and time again. He has proven that he tops out at 22 ppg even as "the man." Drexler peaked at 27 ppg. And he was clearly "the man" on a team that went to 2 finals and should've been 3. He was "the man" on what I feel is one of the better teams to never win a ring.

Defense and playmaking ability, I give to Pip. But when you factor in Drexler's alpha dog scoring abilities, it's a close one. I always give the nod to "the man" in this scenario because there is nothing tougher in basketball than being a superstar that defenses focus in on. Pip had the GOAT scorer to be the 2nd fiddle.

Again, I get your points so at this point, we are arguing over subjective rankings.

[3ball]

Scottie Pippen: 102drating

Clyde Drexler: 109drating



Pippen was a better defender, but individual DRtg, DPBM and DWS can't be used to accurately compare defensive abilities - the CREATORS of the stat say so (shown below)... Here's the kind of thing these stats result in:


Bird... Career DPBM: 2.5
Pippen Career DPBM: 2.4

Bird... Career DRtg: 101
Pippen Career DRtg: 102


I'm too lazy to do the math right now, but Bird had better DWS too.. So WHY does Bird have higher defensive stats than Pippen???... Because these stats are based on individual defensive rating (DRtg), which is based on TEAM performance.. This is from basketball-reference:



"Out of necessity (due to a lack of defensive data in the basic boxscore), individual Defensive Ratings are heavily influenced by the team's defensive efficiency. They assume that all teammates are equally good at forcing non-steal turnovers and non-block misses, as well as assuming that all teammates face the same number of total possessions per minute."


I've had to post the above definition many times to educate posters about DRtg, and subsequently DPBM and DWS... Now you know.. These stats results in hundreds if not thousands of similarly erroneous conclusions like Bird > Pippen defensively.

[3ball]

Seriously, though...Drexler was overhyped back then because he was also a good athletic sg like Jordan was...


You didn't watch back then, and now 25 years after the fact you're trying to say Drexler was overhyped.

Here's what ACTUALLY happened at the time - Drexler wasn't hyped AT ALL - he was one of the more underrated, underhyped players of all time, then and now.. MJ, Magic, Bird, Dominique, Bernard, and the many other great players at the time overshadowed him big time.

To anyone that actually watched back then - this is common knowledge - everyone knows Drexler is one of the most underhyped players of all time.

But you're just a young fool talking out of your ass, with no clue what you're talking about.





Scottie Pippen: 20.8ppg 8.3rpg 7.7apg 1.5spg 0.7bpg .484%fg .786%ft .561%ts 102drating

Clyde Drexler: 24.8ppg 7.8rpg 5.3apg 1.3spg 1.0bpg .407%fg .893%ft .522%ts 109drating



Drexler was being guarded by Jordan - that's why he shot so bad.

Also, Pippen's offense was FAR worse than Drexler's - it's not even close... You guys act like 4-5 ppg is just a little bit - that's A LOT.

Drexler could actually SHOOT... Pippen's shot was broke as ****..





Drex wasn't even the 2nd best player in the series


Bullshit - there isn't a single player, coach or analyst that would say Pippen > Drexler in 1992 - you're simply talking out of your ass.

Drexler was runner up for MVP in 1992.

[OldSchoolBBall]

What makes this performance even MORE absurd, along with most ATG performances of the past, is when you know the context behind them.

Drexler for example: Prior to the finals this guy beasted throughout the playoffs, averaging ~27 PPG, 8 REB, 7 AST with gamelogs of 36/12/6 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAIouCRio6s) and 42/12/9 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aluf8FquhRA). Just flat-out dominance and MVP level play. He meets up with Jordan, H2H on the biggest stage, and looks second tier. Not only in the finals for a championship and Finals MVP, but for summer practices during the Olympics.

Drexler was unreal. One of the greatest perimeter players ever, a complete player who could do it ALL, and Jordan eviscerated him in every way imaginable. :eek:

What's even more impressive is that he scored 35 despite sitting out 7:30 of the half. He legitimately could have had a 43+ point half and 65+ point game had he played more in the first half and not completely taken his foot off the gas in the second half.

[Smoke117]

I kind of get what you're saying but Pip's scoring is overrated by some time and time again. He has proven that he tops out at 22 ppg even as "the man." Drexler peaked at 27 ppg. And he was clearly "the man" on a team that went to 2 finals and should've been 3. He was "the man" on what I feel is one of the better teams to never win a ring.

Defense and playmaking ability, I give to Pip. But when you factor in Drexler's alpha dog scoring abilities, it's a close one. I always give the nod to "the man" in this scenario because there is nothing tougher in basketball than being a superstar that defenses focus in on. Pip had the GOAT scorer to be the 2nd fiddle.

Again, I get your points so at this point, we are arguing over subjective rankings.

Actually look at the pace of those teams or watch those Blazers compared to the 94 or 95 bulls...those Blazer teams Drexler was dropping 27ppg were some of the most up tempo teams in the league. The Bulls in 94 and 95 played a slow down, half court offense because that's what the triangle calls for. Scottie's best attributes as a scorer were always in the open court. He's a top 5 open court player as far as I'm concerned, but the Bulls triangle offense is built around precision and not opportunity which didn't allow him to fully utilize his scoring abilities. He could have easily been averaging 25+ on those 80s blazers teams during his prime.

I've seen both Drexler and Pippen play a lot and Drexler isn't particularly better at anything scoring wise in relation to Pippen. He just ended up in a better situation to showcase his skills. In fact you could even say Pippen was a better scorer as he was actually a good post player...something Drexler never was. Neither guy was ever known for his jump shot, though I would give Drexler the slight advantage there overall. Either way...by 92 Drexler was already at the tail end of his prime with Pippen just entering his. A lot of that has to do that Drexler was an historically lazy player...that's probably what he's known for more than anything else...his laziness. He just didn't want to work at it.

[Smoke117]

I haven't read what you said 3ball...and I don't care. I also know how much it galls you to know that I'm not reading nor going to respond. I didn't give my opinion to get in a silly argument with you or suffer your nonsense about how Jordan carried historically untalented teams to championships.

[3ball]

I haven't read what you said 3ball...and I don't care. I also know how much it galls you to know that I'm not reading nor going to respond. I didn't give my opinion to get in a silly argument with you or suffer your nonsense about how Jordan carried historically untalented teams to championships.
You didn't watch back then, and now 25 years after the fact you're trying to say Drexler was overhyped.

Here's what ACTUALLY happened at the time - Drexler wasn't hyped AT ALL - he was one of the more underrated, underhyped players of all time, then and now.. MJ, Magic, Bird, Dominique, Bernard, and the many other great players at the time overshadowed him big time.

To anyone that actually watched back then - this is common knowledge - everyone knows Drexler is one of the most underhyped players of all time.

But you're just a young fool talking out of your ass, with no clue what you're talking about.

[ClipperRevival]

Actually look at the pace of those teams or watch those Blazers compared to the 94 or 95 bulls...those Blazer teams Drexler was dropping 27ppg were some of the most up tempo teams in the league. The Bulls in 94 and 95 played a slow down, half court offense because that's what the triangle calls for. Scottie's best attributes as a scorer were always in the open court. He's a top 5 open court player as far as I'm concerned, but the Bulls triangle offense is built around precision and not opportunity which didn't allow him to fully utilize his scoring abilities. He could have easily been averaging 25+ on those 80s blazers teams during his prime.

Yeah, I am not going to get into this. I always say your talents warrant the amount of touches you get. Pip maxed at 22 ppg. It's not about pace or anything more than the fact that Pip simply didn't have that alpha dog scoring skills. If you feel that he did, fine, agree to disagree. But here's an interesting tidbit. MJ, at the age of 39, scored a 50+ point game. Pip's career high is like 46. How many times did Pip top 30 points in a game? 40? He just didn't have that take over a game type offensive game. He was a guy who got his mostly within the flow of an offense and not iso situations where he commanded a double. Again, if you feel that circumstances prevented him from scoring more, we will have to agree to disagree.

[Smoke117]

Also, 3ball...remember this: It was Scottie bringing the team back when they were down 15 at the beginning of the 4th quarter in game 6...not Michael. He was riding the pine and being a cheerleader till it got close and he smelled some glory.

[3ball]

Also, 3ball...remember this: It was Scottie bringing the team back when they were down 15 at the beginning of the 4th quarter in game 6...not Michael. He was riding the pine and being a cheerleader till it got close and he smelled some glory.
ou didn't watch back then, and now 25 years after the fact you're trying to say Drexler was overhyped.

Here's what ACTUALLY happened at the time - Drexler wasn't hyped AT ALL - he was one of the more underrated, underhyped players of all time, then and now.. MJ, Magic, Bird, Dominique, Bernard, and the many other great players at the time overshadowed him big time.

To anyone that actually watched back then - this is common knowledge - everyone knows Drexler is one of the most underhyped players of all time.

But you're just a young fool talking out of your ass, with no clue what you're talking about.

[ClipperRevival]

Actually look at the pace of those teams or watch those Blazers compared to the 94 or 95 bulls...those Blazer teams Drexler was dropping 27ppg were some of the most up tempo teams in the league. The Bulls in 94 and 95 played a slow down, half court offense because that's what the triangle calls for. Scottie's best attributes as a scorer were always in the open court. He's a top 5 open court player as far as I'm concerned, but the Bulls triangle offense is built around precision and not opportunity which didn't allow him to fully utilize his scoring abilities. He could have easily been averaging 25+ on those 80s blazers teams during his prime.

I've seen both Drexler and Pippen play a lot and Drexler isn't particularly better at anything scoring wise in relation to Pippen. He just ended up in a better situation to showcase his skills. In fact you could even say Pippen was a better scorer as he was actually a good post player...something Drexler never was. Neither guy was ever known for his jump shot, though I would give Drexler the slight advantage there overall. Either way...by 92 Drexler was already at the tail end of his prime with Pippen just entering his. A lot of that has to do that Drexler was an historically lazy player...that's probably what he's known for more than anything else...his laziness. He just didn't want to work at it.

Drexler wasn't in his physical prime by 1992 but he was in his prime as a basketball player right around 1992. And even as late 1995, when he was 33, he had monster games in the playoffs where he was clearly 2nd fiddle for that championship team.

[Akrazotile]

Didn't Klay Thompson have 37 points in a quarter?

[sekachu]

Didn't Klay Thompson have 37 points in a quarter?




He was talking about final

[ClipperRevival]

Drexler had (152) 30+ pt games and (21) 40+ pt games in 1086 games
Pippen had (49) 30+ pt games and (5) 40+ pt games in 1173 games

[stalkerforlife]

ou didn't watch back then, and now 25 years after the fact you're trying to say Drexler was overhyped.

Here's what ACTUALLY happened at the time - Drexler wasn't hyped AT ALL - he was one of the more underrated, underhyped players of all time, then and now.. MJ, Magic, Bird, Dominique, Bernard, and the many other great players at the time overshadowed him big time.

To anyone that actually watched back then - this is common knowledge - everyone knows Drexler is one of the most underhyped players of all time.

But you're just a young fool talking out of your ass, with no clue what you're talking about.

Body bagged.

Cremated.

Dumped in a trash can.

[FKAri]

Drexler did have hype, initially. Not sure if it was over the top. I don't remember. But by the time Jordan got into the public consciousness and in Nike commercials, it had disappeared and he became forgotten.

[ClipperRevival]

23 years ago today. The famous shrug game. :applause:

MJ felt some mild threat to his throne in Drexler and put the hammer down. LeBron turns into a role playing, 2nd fiddle type player when Curry is challenging his throne. MJ was just cut from a different cloth. He was a killer. LeBron is a lover. Marshmallowy soft inside.

[Asukal]

We need a list of all these sending a message games by Jordan. I know there was one a few years ago. More than anything, it's really what makes Jordan the GOAT. True, real killer instant. Though it makes Jordan look horrible, a very good example of that drive is when he made that kid who did the Jordan vs Jordan commercial cry.

I'm sorry but :oldlol: :lol :roll:

[dazzer87]

That Portland team from 89-91 was one of the best ever to never win a championship. They were like 8-9 deep.....:applause:

[StephHamann]

Harden had his own message sending game when he singlehandedly beat the Warriors in an amazing fashion.

Everyone knows who the true MVP was.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o85xDEJsTDEp5fwhG/giphy.gif

[Indian guy]

23 years ago today. The famous shrug game. :applause:

MJ felt some mild threat to his throne in Drexler and put the hammer down. LeBron turns into a role playing, 2nd fiddle type player when Curry is challenging his throne.

You are an idiot and need to stop. Curry is no longer challenging LeBron's throne - he clearly took it this season with one of the greatest seasons of all time. He was more of a challenger last Finals and despite LeBron losing the series, I'd say he clearly walked away with the throne very much still his. And even last night, LeBron was the better player on the floor. Where are you getting this "turns into a role playing, 2nd fiddle" garbage? Dumbass. And unlike MJ in '92, who was 29, in his 8th season and at his peak, LeBron's on the wrong side of 30, in his 13th season and clearly past his prime. His challenger on the other hand is much younger and on a much better team to boot. This is most unlike the case with Drexler, who was a little older than MJ and on a worse team.

And :oldlol: @ trying to draw some kind of comparison between MJ and LeBron's biggest rivals. Drexler isn't fit to hold Curry's jockstrap.

[ArbitraryWater]

What makes this performance even MORE absurd, along with most ATG performances of the past, is when you know the context behind them.

Drexler for example: Prior to the finals this guy beasted throughout the playoffs, averaging ~27 PPG, 8 REB, 7 AST with gamelogs of 36/12/6 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAIouCRio6s) and 42/12/9 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aluf8FquhRA). Just flat-out dominance and MVP level play. He meets up with Jordan, H2H on the biggest stage, and looks second tier. Not only in the finals for a championship and Finals MVP, but for summer practices during the Olympics.

Drexler was unreal. One of the greatest perimeter players ever, a complete player who could do it ALL, and Jordan eviscerated him in every way imaginable. :eek:

he was great, but this sounds like its pushing it a bit.

[ArbitraryWater]

You are an idiot and need to stop. Curry is no longer challenging LeBron's throne - he clearly took it this season with one of the greatest seasons of all time. He was more of a challenger last Finals and despite LeBron losing the series, I'd say he clearly walked away with the throne very much still his. And even last night, LeBron was the better player on the floor. Where are you getting this "turns into a role playing, 2nd fiddle" garbage? Dumbass. And unlike MJ in '92, who was 29, in his 8th season and at his peak, LeBron's on the wrong side of 30, in his 13th season and clearly past his prime.

And :oldlol: @ try to draw some kind of comparison between Drexler and Curry. Drexler isn't fit to hold Curry's jockstrap.

God fcking damn.. if only you'd rip every post of that bozo like this. Dude is all about cliches and simple analogy. Those casual, sheep fans.

[sd3035]

probably because he was pretty ****ing good

[ClipperRevival]

Lebron fans especially salty today. Wonder why. :oldlol: 2/7 incoming. :hammertime: :yaohappy:

[ArbitraryWater]

Lebron fans especially salty today. Wonder why. :oldlol: 2/7 incoming. :hammertime: :yaohappy:

God damit Jeff... PLEASE start cleaning up this place

[NBAGOAT]

God fcking damn.. if only you'd rip every post of that bozo like this. Dude is all about cliches and simple analogy. Those casual, sheep fans.

a much better comparison for this is magic and mj in 91. I'm sure OP would never put down Magic like this however.

[ClipperRevival]

a much better comparison for this is magic and mj in 91. I'm sure OP would never put down Magic like this however.

MJ destroyed my beloved Lakers. I call it like it is. Magic had an amazing 1991 season, perhaps his best ever in terms of getting the most out of his team. His Lakers had no business beating the Blazers in 1991. But Magic and the Lakers were no match for MJ, Pip and Grant coming into their primes. Too much athleticism and talent for the aging Lakers.

[3ball]

.
"Drexler is a better 3-point shooter than i CHOOSE to be."

- MJ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iuDTsLZUfo&t=6m50s

[tontoz]

Drexler was playing off MJ, basically daring MJ to shoot 3s. MJ was like, OK and got in a groove.

Even after the game Drexler said those were the shots they wanted Jordan to take. Given their lack of shotblocking i can see where they were coming from. They didn't want Jordan to drive.

Pretty crazy watching it live. People were literally going nuts.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

he was great, but this sounds like its pushing it a bit.

Very good scorer, playmaker and defender who rebounded above average. His midrange shot was money and he had MULTIPLE seasons where he was in the 34-37% range on 3's (although a few of them were with the shortened line).

Glide was the complete package. :confusedshrug:

[ClipperRevival]

People underestimating the mental part of the game makes me question if they competed at a somewhat high level. Heck, even at your local park just going hard. For instance, I can tell what type of guy I am playing against about 8-10 times down the court. You have the guys who go half ass, the guys who do just enough and the guy who goes hard at all times.

You can demoralize your opponent and you can be demoralized in certain situations in games. I've seen the dejected faces on my opponents when I hit a shot or go harder than the guy guarding me and they mentally give up. I've been dejected at times when i know another team is just better. When it's late in the game, the score is close and you and the guy guarding you are tired as hell, that is when you can send a message. You decide I'm going to go hard the next few plays and maybe I will demoralize this guy because he will think, "damn does this guy get tired cause I'm dying inside." Body langauge is real. Killer instinct is real. Beta mentality is real. Clutch is real. Shying away from the moment is real. Wanting it more than your opponent is real.

Bron has channeled his inner killer instinct in stretches but he just didn't want it as badly as a guy like MJ. MJ want hard at all times, never seemed to get tired and always tried to bury you when he had an opportunity. All this sh't matters. Opponents can sense all this.

[ArbitraryWater]

https://vine.co/v/iYhiTpT19iE

this guy just does not want it.. OP, please, do us a favor and stop the casual ass Skip Bayless talk

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

https://vine.co/v/iYhiTpT19iE

this guy just does not want it.. OP, please, do us a favor and stop the casual ass Skip Bayless talk

Must suck to be a player-zealot :oldlol:

I couldn't imagine having to defend a man you've never met, the way you do, CONSTANTLY.

[NBAGOAT]

People underestimating the mental part of the game makes me question if they competed at a somewhat high level. Heck, even at your local park just going hard. For instance, I can tell what type of guy I am playing against about 8-10 times down the court. You have the guys who go half ass, the guys who do just enough and the guy who goes hard at all times.

You can demoralize your opponent and you can be demoralized in certain situations in games. I've seen the dejected faces on my opponents when I hit a shot or go harder than the guy guarding me and they mentally give up. I've been dejected at times when i know another team is just better. When it's late in the game, the score is close and you and the guy guarding you are tired as hell, that is when you can send a message. You decide I'm going to go hard the next few plays and maybe I will demoralize this guy because he will think, "damn does this guy get tired cause I'm dying inside." Body langauge is real. Killer instinct is real. Beta mentality is real. Clutch is real. Shying away from the moment is real. Wanting it more than your opponent is real.

Bron has channeled his inner killer instinct in stretches but he just didn't want it as badly as a guy like MJ. MJ want hard at all times, never seemed to get tired and always tried to bury you when he had an opportunity. All this sh't matters. Opponents can sense all this.

ofc teams can get dejected and give up or "tilt" as I like to say. Shying away from the moment can be real too. Not really a big believer in the "clutch gene" however. MJ was clutch because he was just that good all the time. Very few players will play significantly better in the playoffs(and that's usually due to small sample size) or suddenly make 60% of their shots in clutch situations when they usually shoot 40%. Saying MJ wanted it more than other guys may be true but that just seems like discrediting how competitive other NBA players are.

[ClipperRevival]

https://vine.co/v/iYhiTpT19iE

this guy just does not want it.. OP, please, do us a favor and stop the casual ass Skip Bayless talk

Please. Ball is life for me. I love this game with a passion and will play until the wheels fall off. I could care less what an idiot like Bayless has to say about bball. He never played and doesn't know sh't about the game. All the stuff I said is absolutely true. If you don't get it, that's on you.

[ArbitraryWater]

Must suck to be a player-zealot :oldlol:

I couldn't imagine having to defend a man you've never met, the way you do, CONSTANTLY.

clutch gene bro! He wants it more!

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

clutch gene bro! He wants it more!

LeBron is a quireboy compared to MJ.

:oldlol: @ thinking mentality isn't a factor in sports. Basketball players are just mindless droids trying to put the ball in the basket. 2K style!!!

[ArbitraryWater]

Bron doesnt have the clutch gene! Marshmallow soft inside! #PostsFrom2011

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ctQvM5EvRqY/UpsevZmKGzI/AAAAAAAAPPI/6cmoDtjjPqY/w1200-h630-p-nu/lebron-glitch.gif

[ArbitraryWater]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ctQvM5EvRqY/UpsevZmKGzI/AAAAAAAAPPI/6cmoDtjjPqY/w1200-h630-p-nu/lebron-glitch.gif

fail lol

[ClipperRevival]

You Lebron fans have to see where I'm coming from. I saw MJ play, who went hard at all times and was just a killer. And when I compare Lebron to him, of course he falls short because I see the flopping, the deferring (2011 finals), the poor fundamentals at times and just lacking that killer mentality. Not to mention his questionable iso game at times. Everyone falls short of MJ.

But no doubt Lebron is one of the greatest players ever, despite his mental shortcomings. And that's saying a lot. He is without a doubt one of the most impactful players ever. His play making, his rebounding, his athleticism, his size and his power meant he was just very impactful. The advanced numbers prove this. If he had MJ's mentality, he very well might've been the GOAT. But you can't fake what's inside and how bad you want it.

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm pretty sure, ZERO, of this years loss, or last years, has to do with mentality.

[sundizz]

I'm pretty sure, ZERO, of this years loss, or last years, has to do with mentality.

If Bron realized that hoops are about scoring and played a dominant power forward game the Cavs would be better. Kyrie, JR, Shump, Bron, Tristan should be their starting lineup.

With Brons athleticism and ability there is no reason he shouldn't be getting 4+ offensive bounds a game and be a dominant defenders in the post.

[3ball]

If he had MJ's mentality, he very well might've been the GOAT.


Would MJ's mentality give him a jumpshot?

Would MJ's mentality give him an offensive repertoire?

We saw him "want it" in last year's Finals - he needed 12.0 minutes (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1) time of possession, which was 50% higher (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1) than the RS leader John Wall (:eek:) - no team can win with one player holding the ball that much.. He also needed 33 shots to get 35 ppg despite repeated single coverage and wide open clearouts..

This is all due to his lack of jumpshot (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389794&postcount=17) and offensive repertoire.

[ClipperRevival]

Would MJ's mentality give him a jumpshot?

Would MJ's mentality give him an offensive repertoire?

We've seen his best high volume effort in last year's Finals - he needed 12.0 minutes (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1) time of possession, which was 50% higher (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1) than the RS leader John Wall (:eek:) and doomed his team's brand of basketball.. He also needed 33 shots to get 35 ppg despite repeated single coverage and wide open clearouts..

This is all due to his lack of jumpshot (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389794&postcount=17) and offensive repertoire.

True but Lebron also had advantages over MJ. 6'8", 260 lbs and still uber athletic. He just didn't put his foot on the gas at all times like MJ. He just would've had a chance at GOAT a different way than MJ. But no doubt a broke jumper and inability to consistently break down set defenders would've set him back some. But despite his mental shortcomings, he is without a doubt one of the most impactful players ever. If he had MJs mentality, he would've taken his game up another notch because he would've been in attack mode at all times. And with his size/athleticism, he would've done consistent damage. But you can't fake desire.

[ClipperRevival]

Even last night, when Bron was aggressive in the 1st with 4 drives to the basket, he looked unstoppable. This is what is called a superstar imposing his will on the game. But that stopped and he started settling as the game went on. Why? It's his mentality that set him back. MJ would've kept attacking the basket.

[3ball]

he would've been in attack mode at all times.


See - that's the reason I brought up the 2015 Finals, because he WAS in attack mode for that entire series and we saw what happened at the higher volume:

He shot poorly (because he can't shoot (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389794&postcount=17)) and required high time of possession to take all those shots (because his off-ball and triple-threat skill is inferior).

You have this dumb idea that with a more aggressive mentality, Lebron would just bully his way to 30 ppg... NBA defenses have never allowed that, now or then.. And btw, if he could do that, he WOULD, like the non-aggressive Wilt did, or Kareem, or other skilled but non-aggressive players

[ClipperRevival]

See - that's the reason I brought up the 2015 Finals, because he WAS in attack mode for that entire series and we saw what happened at the higher volume:

He shot poorly (because he can't shoot (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389794&postcount=17)) and required high time of possession to take all those shots (because his off-ball and triple-threat skill is inferior).

You have this dumb idea that with a more aggressive mentality, Lebron would just bully his way to 30 ppg... NBA defenses have never allowed that, now or then.. And btw, if he could do that, he WOULD, like the non-aggressive Wilt did, or Kareem, or other skilled but non-aggressive players

Obviously, MJ had the clearly superior offensive skillset. And that is why I said Lebron would impact the game a little differently from MJ. Imposing his size/power more on his opponents.

And in all fairness to Lebron, he played without his 2 best players. You can't expect MJ to win a title without Pip and Grant/Pip. If the series had stopped after game 3, when Clev was up 2-1, Bron was on some GOAT level impact. But fatigue was a factor. He was carrying such a huge burden doing a little but of everything. No one is denying MJ was just the better shooter and rim attacker. And as the series went on, Lebron's inability to take over offensively despite seeing mostly single coverage was clearly exposed.

[iamgine]

Disregarding all the skip bayless talk about 'heart' 'wanting it more' etc.

MJ scored that many because he got hot with his shooting. Simple as that. Why did Klay scored 37 points in a quarter?

[jstern]

I'm sorry but :oldlol: :lol :roll:
Oops. Maybe I wrote it on my phone. But I did read again and didn't notice it.

[3ball]

Disregarding all the skip bayless talk about 'heart' 'wanting it more' etc.


Right... that stuff doesn't exist.. :rolleyes:

And no way Jordan had any advantage in the "heart" category.. :rolleyes:





MJ scored that many because he got hot with his shooting. Simple as that. Why did Klay scored 37 points in a quarter?


"Drexler is a better 3-point shooter than i CHOOSE to be."

- MJ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iuDTsLZUfo&t=6m50s

[HighFlyer23]

Because he's a psychotic mofo

Normal people in the head like Lebron can't compete with ultra competitive people like Jordan

[3ball]

And that is why I said Lebron would impact the game a little differently from MJ. Imposing his size/power more on his opponents.


This post assumes Lebron isn't already imposing his size/power on opponents, but he is and does every game - that's just regular basketball - you don't need a special mindset; Lebron only needs his forearm..

Btw, having a wide offensive repertoire and being a great shooter affects how aggressive a player is - it's no surprise that Kobe, Melo and MJ have wide repertoires and are the more aggressive scorers.

Also, the idea that an aggressive mindset would turn Lebron into a inside, post player is misguided - he's a perimeter, PG-style player and always will be - he only posts up between 6-10% of the time (depending on the year) with sub-par PPP efficiency.. He only posted up 8.3% of the time in these playoffs, which is less than Durant's 10.2% (http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/playtype/post-up/?sort=Time&dir=1).

Finally, we saw him go all-out in 2015 Finals, and he didn't dominate anyone with his size - the 6'6" and 207 pound (https://www.google.com/search?q=igoudala+weight&oq=igou&aqs=chrome.0.69i59l2j0j69i57j0l2.1510j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) Igoudala (smaller than Jordan (https://www.google.com/search?q=michael+jordan+weight&oq=michael+&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i61l3j69i57j69i59.1072j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)) won FMVP by locking him down, which included 20% outside of 5 feet.





fatigue was a factor. He was carrying such a huge burden doing a little but of everything.


Jordan averaged 6 more points in 1993 Finals, which requires equal or greater energy than Lebron's 2 extra rebounds and 2 extra assists.

And Lebron rested on defense - he allowed an 8 ppg role player to average over 16 ppg.. Jordan never let anyone score 8 ppg above their average.

Furthermore, Lebron expended a lot of unnecessary energy on offense - he held the ball for 12.0 (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1) minutes, which was 50% (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1) longer than the RS leader (John Wall's 8.2 minutes).

His ridiculous time of possession, the 9 extra points he spotted Iggy, and his 39.8% against repeated single-coverage/clearouts are ALL problems that Jordan wouldn't have had - he would've won the series considering Lebron won 2 games despite all these problems.
.

[Blue&Orange]

Jordan liked to destroy his competition, Lebron likes to play with his competition, and when he can't, he loses.

[Blue&Orange]

Even last night, when Bron was aggressive in the 1st with 4 drives to the basket, he looked unstoppable. This is what is called a superstar imposing his will on the game. But that stopped and he started settling as the game went on. Why? It's his mentality that set him back. MJ would've kept attacking the basket.
His stamina is overrated, like everything else, after Melo had his 62 points game on an amazing shooting display, Lebron had his 60 point game on layups, then the next game against the rockets he could barely move.

Because if he kept shooting, shooting tired and not cherry picking his fg% would be 40% again.

Go see the game, when he entered th 4th quarter, his first possession he had a open wide shoot a chose to pass to some puppet behind the 3pt line, he needed the assist, he didn't need points.

Dude is a statpadding fraud.

[Soundwave]

Clyde Drexler.

People don't realize how much Drexler was considered the closest thing to MJ's rival during the late 80's and early 90's. Drexler was ultra athletic, could score and played an all around game like MJ. They were the two SGs who stood above everyone else. Drexler had led his team to the finals in 1990 and 1992 (and should've made it in 1991 but lost to a vastly inferior Laker team mostly due to Magic). Drexler was also 2nd in the MVP voting in 1992. Coming into the 1992 finals, the talk was about MJ vs Drexler. It was a legit conversation to put Drexler on the level of MJ had his team beaten the Bulls.

And we saw the results. 35 1st half points in game 1, 6 3 pointers and the infamous shoulder shrug. MJ wanted to send a message and I think Drexler got that message. Lol.

I remember this summer, Jordan was incredibly popular, take Steph Curry and LeBron James' popularity today and triple it and you'd have what Jordan was then. But that led to a group feeling that Drexler was just as good as Jordan.

They shut up real quick after game 1, lol.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Why?

Well the media dared to compare the runner up MVP to Mike. And given Drexler shot more 3's and the media plus Blazers were talking about daring him to shoot it ...

Along with the inherent self motivation of playing his greatest peer at his position. Along with the big national stage of the Finals with the brightest lights. Combined for a perfect storm of fury from MJ.

What happened next? Jordan wanted to show case he had a more than capable deep ball in his arsenal.

6x threes in a half. 35 points in just 17 MINUTES?! Got buckets from all areas on the court. Dunks, fadeaways, mid range and 3 ball. Then a second half blow out that required no offense from him. With more playing time and a more competitive game ... 60 to 70 points would have been very reachable.

MJ made his point, foot off the gas, after publically sodomizing Drexler. Long ball questions put to definitive rest.

[Psileas]

I remember this summer, Jordan was incredibly popular, take Steph Curry and LeBron James' popularity today and triple it and you'd have what Jordan was then. But that led to a group feeling that Drexler was just as good as Jordan.

They shut up real quick after game 1, lol.

Most fans consider 1991 to be Jordan's greatest season.
But, since Magic retired, there had never been a bigger gap between Jordan and the next best player in the league than in 1992.

[diamenz]

Jordan liked to destroy his competition, Lebron likes to play with his competition, and when he can't, he loses.

oh man, that's cold. the truth hurts.

[dreamwarrior]

I recently saw an interview where he was asked how he would've guarded himself and he said he would take away the drive and make him a jump shooter because shooting from the outside means you either make or miss the shot but if you drive you can either get off a high pct shot or create for others. MJ almost always preferred to attack if the opportunity was there rather than just settle for the jumper. It just wasn't in his DNA to settle when the opportunity to attack was there. So in that sense, he was so devastating at attacking that he was never destined to be a high volume, outside shooter. But I agree, if he would've seriously worked on his 3 pt game, he would've been a very good 3 pt shooter.
That's why his assist numbers were so high. He rarely tried to force anything. If anything he often drove to the basket knowing he'd be giving a teammate an opportunity to get an open shot.

[Lodi Dodi]

That's why his assist numbers were so high. He rarely tried to force anything. If anything he often drove to the basket knowing he'd be giving a teammate an opportunity to get an open shot.

:applause: Congratulations! You have just been nominated for the most retarded post of the year. Jordan "He rarely tried to force anything. If anything he often drove to the basket knowing he'd be giving a teammate an opportunity to get an open shot." If there ever was a post to show the declining intelligence of humanity. Yours just took the cake.:cheers:

[Nikola_]

I've never seen Clyde as someone who is supposed to be best in the nba?? Quiet guy, didnt impose his will, never seem to have the drive ... didnt play much defence. Guy just wasnt about it and didnt have it. Top5 talent at the time? Yes. But im not sure i wouldnt hesitate between picking pippin or Clyde! Heck, Wasnt TP leader of the blazers at the time?